Talking about topics like gender, race, sexual orientation, and class can raise anxiety for many people, and yet we must have the conversation in our schools and our lives in order to be more inclusive and change the world for the better. What are the fears and common pitfalls that keep us from broaching courageous conversations? Gain practical skills for responding to hurtful experiences and participating in courageous conversations.

1. McDonogh School
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
Seattle Girls’ School
Courageous Conversations
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2. About Seattle Girls’ School
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3. Agenda
 Courageous Conversations
 When Receiving the Ouch
 When Witnessing the Ouch
 When Receiving the Interruption
 Engaging Authentically
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4. Courageous Conversations
in Our Schools and Lives
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5. Safety versus Comfort
Safety: I feel that, in this space, I can ask questions without
fear of judgment. I can voice my perspective and know that
I will be validated for the fact that that is my truth. Others
may challenge my ideas, but that challenge is in the spirit of
greater shared understanding and growth.
Comfort: I feel that, in this space, my reality will be agreed
with, validated, and unchallenged. I don’t have to explain
myself to be understood, and I don’t have to justify my
perspective, as everyone shares it.
True dialogue happens in an environment where everyone is
safe but not always comfortable...
SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND GROW.
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6. Safe Spaces 2.0 – Brave Spaces
 Controversy with Civility
 Own your own intent and impact
 Challenge by choice – with reflection
 Respect in all its multiplicity
 No personal attacks, but pointed
challenges are okay
 Be mindful of the true source of your
emotions
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7. Debunking Some Myths
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 All or None
 Mistakes
 Apologies
 “Tonsils” Theory
 Vulnerability

8. Growing Through the Ouch
Moment
William Taylor’s Reflective Competence Model
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9. Speaking From the Heart
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10. What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Receiving the Ouch
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Did that really
happen? Do they
realize? I want to
trust, but I’ve had
this happen so
many times before.
I am so stressed,
confused, hurt….

11. What We End Up Saying
When Receiving the Ouch
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That was so
offensive!
I can’t believe
you did that!

12. Be A DEAR….
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13. Self Advocacy Through the Ouch Moment
 Affirm the person or relationship
 Describe the behavior without judgment
 Explain the emotion/impact and your filters
 Assume positive intent
 Request or suggest different behavior
*** Key Points: timing, I statements, actions not
adjectives, inside feelings not outside feelings***
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14. Self Advocacy Through the Ouch Moment:
An Example
Can I talk with you about something? I really
appreciate having you as a friend. I have so
much fun with you, and I can tell you anything.
Earlier today, when I got my math test back
and I got 98%, I heard you say, “Well of course
you got a 98% - you’re Asian!” I was pretty
hurt when I heard that. I work hard in all my
classes to get good grades, but so many
people assume it’s because of my race. It’s
sad that I don’t get to own my
accomplishments like everyone else. I’m
pretty sure you didn’t mean for me to feel that
way. Can I ask that you please don’t say
things like that anymore?
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15. Being A Witness
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16. What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Witnessing the Ouch
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I can’t believe this
is happening.
That’s SO not
right. Should I
say something?
Am I butting in?
Would it help?
I am so upset!

17. What We End Up Saying
When Witnessing the Ouch
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18. What Others Hear When We Say Nothing
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See? They
agree with me!
I am so right
about this.
No one sees or
understands. I
am alone.

19. They were born
innocent…
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20. NCBI Effective
Interventions Model
 Reduce Defensiveness
– Tone
– Body Language
– Respect
 Keep the Conversation Going
– Hear Them Out
– Ask Open-Ended Questions
– Set Aside Your Feeling for the Moment
– Dialogue
 Build the Relationship
 Stop the Behavior
 Win an Ally
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21. Say Something to Somebody
 Now or Later (or Say It Now About a Later)
 Target, Agent, Fellow Bystanders, Authority Figures
“In the End, we will remember not the words of
our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.
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22. Intervening in the Ouch Moment: Examples
 Ask open ended questions
– “He’s acting like a sissy”
– “How’s he acting? And why is that sissy?”
 Find out the experience motivating the comment
– “Why can’t they just speak English around here?”
– “It must be hard not to understand what people are saying around you.”
– “I’m sick of my tuition paying for scholarship students.”
– “Tell me more about that.”
 Use exaggerated humor to highlight what’s going on
(use sparingly)
– “That movie is so gay.”
– “That movie is attracted to other movies? I didn’t know that was possible!”
 Join the person and do not make yourself superior
– “She got that award because she’s black and female.”
– “You know, I hear that a lot. I’ve been trying to figure out why we seem to think when a
black woman gets recognized it must be because of ‘diversity’ stuff rather than that she
earned it.”
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23. Listening to the Real Message
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24. What Was Said During the Intervention
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Those words or
actions are
hurtful to me.
Please stop.

25. What We Hear During the Intervention
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You are a
bad, bad
person, and I
hate you!

26. What We Should Hear
During the Intervention
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You are basically a good
and decent person. As
with all of us, you’ve
made a mistake, and you
may not know how that
mistake is impacting
others. I am going to
give you the gift of
information so that your
intentions and impacts
match up.

27. It’s a gift…
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28. When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created
 Listen with full attention
 Don’t try to defend or respond right away
– Take deep breaths
– Acknowledge your feelings
 Your mistakes don’t define you
– Be worthy of their trust and gift
 Prioritize the Impact over Intent
– Apologize for real
*** Moving through these moments with grace is
called shame resilience. It’s a vital skill***
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29. When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created:
Examples
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 “I really appreciate your telling me this.”
 “I’m so embarrassed that I did that.”
 “I’m so sorry my words and actions made you feel
that way. No matter what I intended, it hurt you.”
 “I’m pretty overwhelmed right now, and I don’t
want to respond in a way I’d regret. Do you think
you can help me come up with a better way to
handle that situation after I get into a calmer
place?”
 “I wanted to go back to a moment I don’t think I
handled very well… Can we talk?”

30. Final Words of Advice:
Recognize Your Triggers
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31. Find Your Bucket People
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32. Practice Makes
Less Heart-Attack-Inducing
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33. If You Messed Up and You Know It,
Don’t Wait for the Intervention –
Just Apologize
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34. If You’re Really Sorry,
Work to Improve
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35. Build Authentic Relationships
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36. Inclusive Communities
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37. Presenter Information
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
6th Faculty and
Professional Outreach
Seattle Girls’ School
2706 S Jackson Street
Seattle WA 98144
(206) 805-6562
rlee@seattlegirlsschool.org
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38. Final Questions or Comments?
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39. Resources
• Anti-Defamation League
• Brené Brown
• Cross Cultural Connections
(www.CulturesConnecting.com)
• National Coalition Building Institute
• The People’s Institute
• Stirfry Seminars
• Teaching Tolerance
• The Thiagi Group
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