Lakeside US Courageous Conversations

Lakeside School
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
Seattle Girls’ School
Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces:
Facilitating Courageous Conversations
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)

About Seattle Girls’ School

Courageous Conversations
in Our Schools and Lives

Fears and Anxieties that Keep Us
from Having Conversations
 Offending
 Losing Face
 Tokenism
 Professional Risk
 Bursting the Bubble
 Rocking the Boat
 Conflict
 Lack of “Authority”

Pitfalls and Obstacles that Keep Us
from Conversing Again
 Outbursts
 Silence
 Denial
 The Good Talk
 Teacher vs. Facilitator
 Personal Attacks
 The Quick Fix
 Leadership Oppression

Open Acknowledgment

Define the Opportunity

Debunking Some Myths
 All or None
 Mistakes
 Apologies
 “Tonsils” Theory
 Vulnerability

Growth Mindset

Identify Your Growth Zones
Comfort Zone:
Reliance on you
already know and do
well
Zone of Proximal
Development – The
Growth Zone:
Mindful and strategic
change toward the
next stage of growth
Panic Zone:
Unrealistic demands
on yourself and
others

Be Willing to Discover
William Taylor’s Reflective Competence Model

So What? Now What?

Differentiate Safety Versus Comfort
Safety: I feel that, in this space, I can ask questions without
fear of judgment. I can voice my perspective and know that
I will be validated for the fact that that is my truth. Others
may challenge my ideas, but that challenge is in the spirit of
greater shared understanding and growth.
Comfort: I feel that, in this space, my reality will be agreed
with, validated, and unchallenged. I don’t have to explain
myself to be understood, and I don’t have to justify my
perspective, as everyone shares it.
True dialogue happens in an environment where everyone is
safe but not always comfortable...
SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND GROW.

Move Conversations from
Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces
 Controversy with Civility
 Own your own intent and impact
 Challenge by choice – with reflection
 Respect in all its multiplicity
 No personal attacks, but pointed
challenges are okay
 Be mindful of the true source of your
emotions

Framing and Talking Points:
Different Occasions, Different Skills

Speaking From the Heart

What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Receiving the Ouch
Did that really
happen? Do they
realize? I want to
trust, but I’ve had
this happen so
many times before.
I am so stressed,
confused, hurt….

What We End Up Saying
When Receiving the Ouch
That was so
offensive!
I can’t believe
you did that!

Be A DEAR….

Self Advocacy Through the Ouch Moment
 Affirm the person or relationship
 Describe the behavior without judgment
 Explain the emotion/impact and your filters
 Assume positive intent
 Request or suggest different behavior
*** Key Points: timing, I statements, actions not
adjectives, inside feelings not outside feelings***

Self Advocacy Through the Ouch Moment:
An Example
Can I talk with you about something? I really
appreciate having you as a friend. I have so
much fun with you, and I can tell you anything.
Earlier today, when I got my math test back
and I got 98%, I heard you say, “Well of course
you got a 98% - you’re Asian!” I was pretty
hurt when I heard that. I work hard in all my
classes to get good grades, but so many
people assume it’s because of my race. It’s
sad that I don’t get to own my
accomplishments like everyone else. I’m
pretty sure you didn’t mean for me to feel that
way. Can I ask that you please don’t say
things like that anymore?

Being A Witness

What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Witnessing the Ouch
I can’t believe this
is happening.
That’s SO not
right. Should I
say something?
Am I butting in?
Would it help?
I am so upset!

What We End Up Saying
When Witnessing the Ouch

What Others Hear When We Say Nothing
See? They
agree with me!
I am so right
about this.
No one sees or
understands. I
am alone.

They were born
innocent…

NCBI Effective
Interventions Model
 Reduce Defensiveness
– Tone
– Body Language
– Respect
 Keep the Conversation Going
– Hear Them Out
– Ask Open-Ended Questions
– Set Aside Your Feeling for the Moment
– Dialogue
 Build the Relationship
 Stop the Behavior
 Win an Ally

Say Something to Somebody
 Now or Later (or Say It Now About a Later)
 Target, Agent, Fellow Bystanders, Authority Figures
“In the End, we will remember not the words of
our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”
Martin Luther King, Jr.

Intervening in the Ouch Moment: Examples
 Ask open ended questions
– “He’s acting like a sissy”
– “How’s he acting? And why is that sissy?”
 Find out the experience motivating the comment
– “Why can’t they just speak English around here?”
– “It must be hard not to understand what people are saying around you.”
– “I’m sick of my tuition paying for scholarship students.”
– “Tell me more about that.”
 Use exaggerated humor to highlight what’s going on
(use sparingly)
– “That movie is so gay.”
– “That movie is attracted to other movies? I didn’t know that was possible!”
 Join the person and do not make yourself superior
– “She got that award because she’s black and female.”
– “You know, I hear that a lot. I’ve been trying to figure out why we seem to think when a
black woman gets recognized it must be because of ‘diversity’ stuff rather than that she
earned it.”

Listening to the Real Message

What Was Said During the Intervention
Those words or
actions are
hurtful to me.
Please stop.

What We Hear During the Intervention
You are a
bad, bad
person, and I
hate you!

What We Should Hear
During the Intervention
You are basically a good
and decent person. As
with all of us, you’ve
made a mistake, and you
may not know how that
mistake is impacting
others. I am going to
give you the gift of
information so that your
intentions and impacts
match up.

It’s a gift…

When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created
 Listen with full attention
 Don’t try to defend or respond right away
– Take deep breaths
– Acknowledge your feelings
 Your mistakes don’t define you
– Be worthy of their trust and gift
 Prioritize the Impact over Intent
– Apologize for real
*** Moving through these moments with grace is
called shame resilience. It’s a vital skill***

When You’re Told About
the Ouch Moment You Created:
Examples
 “I really appreciate your telling me this.”
 “I’m so embarrassed that I did that.”
 “I’m so sorry my words and actions made you feel
that way. No matter what I intended, it hurt you.”
 “I’m pretty overwhelmed right now, and I don’t
want to respond in a way I’d regret. Do you think
you can help me come up with a better way to
handle that situation after I get into a calmer
place?”
 “I wanted to go back to a moment I don’t think I
handled very well… Can we talk?”

Final Words of Advice:
Recognize Your Triggers

Find Your Bucket People

Practice Makes
Less Heart-Attack-Inducing

If You Messed Up and You Know It,
Don’t Wait for the Intervention –
Just Apologize

If You’re Really Sorry,
Work to Improve

Build Authentic Relationships

Develop Your Inner Credible Hulk

Equality vs Equity
Everybody gets a shirt versus everybody
gets a shirt that fits.
Giving everybody some insulin in
equality. Giving only people who are
diabetic some insulin is equity.
What is “fair”?

Equality vs Equity

Institutional vs Individual

Correlation vs Causation
Correlation: When income is averaged and compared, there
is a strong correlation between gender and income. This is
due to a myriad of historical, systemic, and economic factors that
impact men and women differently in the workplace.
Causation: When income is averaged and compared, there is a
strong correlation between gender and income. This must be
because women must not be as smart, hard-working, or
good with money as men.
Correlation: When folks are carrying umbrellas, they are
also wearing rain boots. This is because it’s raining.
Causation: Umbrellas make people wear rain boots.

Where We’re From vs Where We’re Going
Where We Come From: In the past, LGBTQ people were
openly discriminated against. Many LGBTQ people were
killed, fired from jobs, kicked out of families, etc. We’ve come
so far. Now, we have openly gay celebrities, politicians, and
other public figures. Equal marriage rights is now law of the
land. Most schools and workplaces have LGBTQ non-
discrimination policies. Why are LGBTQ people are so angry?
Where We Are Going: We still have LGBTQ people who are
discriminated against. News stories abound of LGBTQ people
killed, fired from jobs, kicked out of families, and more. We
have such a long way to go. Having public role models on TV
doesn’t protect kids from bullying and harassment in the
hallways. Having nondiscrimination laws and policies don’t
mean LGBTQ people receive fair treatment in practice Why
are straight/cisgender people are so complacent?

Expert Opinion vs Personal Opinion
Expert Opinion: An astronomy professor, widely published in
academic journals and books, with a national reputation in her
field, states that, according to the most current science, there
are 8 planets in our solar system.
Personal Opinion: Another person asserts that there are 9
planets because that is what he learned in school and from
his parents, he had a map of the sky in his bedroom as a
child, and everyone he knows agrees with him.
Expert Opinion: Experts in multiple fields validate the
existence, reality, and impact of microaggressions, stereotype
threat, racial anxiety, implicit bias, etc.
Personal Opinion: I think people should stop being so
sensitive and get over it. We live in a post-racial society. I
don’t have a racist bone in my body.
Is everybody’s opinion equally valid?

Privilege
“Privilege exists when one group has
something of value that is denied to others
simply because of the groups they belong
to, rather than because of anything they’ve
done or failed to do.”
[as described by Peggy McIntosh and quoted by Allan Johnson]
Privilege is SYSTEMIC. It drives the
systems that dominate our societies.

Two Types of Privilege
Unearned Advantage
an unearned entitlement
(i.e. things of value that
all people should have)
that is restricted to
certain groups
Conferred Dominance
bestowed control;
granted authority;
awarded power or
domination- Giving one
group power over
another

Accumulated Advantages

Situational Advantage
There are prime parking spots and seats
reserved for people with disabilities. People
with disabilities are often first to board
planes and other transportation vehicles.
These advantages are situational and do not
balance out systemic oppression.

Situational Advantage

An Ally Is…
“a person who is a member of the dominant or
majority group who works to end oppression in
his or her personal and professional life
through support of, and as an advocate with
and for, the oppressed population”
Washington and Evans, Becoming an Ally

An Ally Is…
“Someone who doesn’t have to stand up for
someone else, who might even lose something
if they do, but they do it anyway because they
know it’s the right thing to do”
6th Grade Student

Savior Complex
 Centers on the “Helper” and not the “Helped”
 Centers on making the “Helper” feel good about
themselves
 Assumes that the “Helper” knows what is best for the
“Helped,” often without even hearing from the direct
experiences of the “Helped”
 Doesn’t acknowledge deep injustices, where the “Helper”
is privileged and the “Helped” are oppressed
 Doesn’t do anything to give power to the “Helped”
 Does not create sustainable change – once the “Helper”
stops doing what they are doing, so does the positive
change

Allyship and Solidarity
 Centers on the “Helped” and not the “Helper”
 Centers on the “Helper” fulfilling a societal responsibility
as the privileged
 Assumes that the “Helped” knows what is best for the
“Helped,” and that the job of the “Helper” is to assist the
“Helped” in meeting those needs
 Acknowledges deep societal injustices, where the
“Helper” and “Helped” are equal in dignity and unequal in
access through no fault or earning of each party
 Results in the “Helped” becoming more powerful
 Creates sustainable change where the “Helper” becomes
obsolete because the positive change continues with or
without them

Developing into an Ally
Karen Bradberry, PhD
Active Passive Passive Active

Inclusive Communities

Presenter Information
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
6th Faculty and
Professional Outreach
Seattle Girls’ School
2706 S Jackson Street
Seattle WA 98144
(206) 805-6562
rlee@seattlegirlsschool.org
http://tiny.cc/rosettalee

Resources
• Anti-Defamation League
• Brené Brown
• Cross Cultural Connections
(www.CulturesConnecting.com)
• National Coalition Building Institute
• The People’s Institute
• Stirfry Seminars
• Teaching Tolerance
• The Thiagi Group

Lakeside US Courageous Conversations

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