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Presentation 2001
Idioms Under the Microscope
The Logic Behind Mapping Solutions
with examples in
English, French, and Spanish
Romina L. Marazzato
02/14/18
Objective
Determine a method to establish
an idiomatic translation
1
Breaking the ice… 1
French: AVOIR D’AUTRES
CHATS À FOUETTER
English: HAVE
BIGGER FISH TO FRY
Have more important
things to do
2
Breaking the ice… 2
French: QUAND LES POULES
AURONT DES DENTS
English:
WHEN PIGS FLY
Never!
3
Breaking the ice… 3
French: COUPER
L’HERBE SOUS LES
PIEDS DE QUELQU’UN
English: BEAT SB TO THE
PUNCH - PULL THE RUG OUT
FROM UNDERNEATH SB
Take somebody’s oportunity
4
Breaking the ice… 4
French: AVOIR UN CHAT
DANS LA GORGE
English: TO HAVE A FROG
IN ONE'S THROAT
Be hoarse or husky
5
Breaking the ice… 5
French: CELA ME FAIT
UNE BELLE JAMBE
English: A FAT LOT OF GOOD
THAT DOES ME
Be useless
6
Methodology
Borrow concepts from Philosophy
of Language:
“Translation and Meaning” by
Willard Van Orman Quine
7
Scenario
Linguist in a virgin community
Excluding all help of interpreters
How do we understand the native’s
tongue?
8
Experimenting
A rabbit scurries by
The native says ‘Gavagai’
What prompts the native’s assent?
9
Stimulus Meaning
The class of all the stimulations that
would prompt the speaker’s assent.
10
Affirmative Stimulus Meaning
σ ∈ M(S) iff ∃ σ’ /
σ’ → D(k) & σ → A(k)
σ, σ’= Stimulations S = Sentence S
M = Affirmative stimulus meaning
A(k), D(k) = Speaker’s Assent/Disent
11
Pragmatics
The study of language usage in
relation with our acting upon
others or in response of others’
acting upon ourselves
“How to do things with words”
John Austin
12
Pragmatics & Translation
As translators, we are called upon
the difficult task of unveiling what
other people are doing with their
words in order to let speakers of
other languages understand that
as well
13
Historic Stimulus Meaning
Set of diachronic stimulations
—origin, ethimology, variations—
consciously or unconsciously present
which allow for a broader
understanding of the term in different
contexts with different connotations
14
Current Stimulus Meaning
Set of synchronic stimulations
—current usage, register, impact—
that prompt the speaker’s assent
allowing him to understand and
apply the term in specific contexts
with particular connotations
15
Danica Seleskovitch’s Approach
The more closely related two cultures
are, the more translatable their
languages will be
La saisie du sens hors langue
La réexpression de ce sens dans la langue
cible
16
Translation of Idioms
In order to evaluate the
translatability of an idiom, we need
to establish the proximity of the two
cultures regarding such idiom
17
Translatability of Idioms
If the literal translation of an idiom is
understood—with or without further
explanation—in the target language
culture, this means the two cultures are
related in the domain pertaining the
understanding of the idiom, and the idiom
may, indeed, be translated.
18
Translatability of Idioms A
If the literal translation of an idiom is
understood in the target language culture
without further explanation, this means the
two cultures are closely related in the
domain pertaining the idiom and the idiom
may, indeed, be translated by an expression
that will probably draw from the same or a
comparable experiential world.
19
Comparable Experiential World
Spanish: MORIRSE DE RISA
French literal: MOURIR DE RIRES
English literal: DIE OF LAUGHTER
20
laugh loud and long / laugh until you ache
Comparable Experiential World
Spanish: MORIRSE DE RISA
21
French: RIRE À VENTRE
DÉBOUTONÉ
English: LAUGH YOURSELF SICK or LAUGH
YOUR HEAD OFF
Translatability of Idioms B
If the literal translation of an idiom needs
further explanation in the target language
culture to be understood, this means the two
cultures are not closely related in the domain
pertaining the idiom and the idiom may, or
may not, be translatable.
22
Translatability of Idioms B cont’d
If translatable, the target language rendering
will either resort to a semantic solution
(where the expression may be mentioned or
explained rather than used), or draw from an
experiential world different from that in the
source language.
23
Different Experiential World
24
Spanish: DEJARME FRÍO / HELADO
French literal: ME LAISSER FROID
English literal: LEAVE ME COLD
be stunned or staggered
Different Experiential World
Spanish: ME DEJ FRÍO / HELADO
25
French: J'EN SUIS RESTÉ BABA
(de surprise)
English: IT BLEW MY MIND
From Colonial Times
Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ
Variation: ME COSTÓ UN POTOSÍ
26
Step 1: Literal Translation
Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ
French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ UN PÉROU
English: IT COST ME ONE PERU
27
From Colonial Times cont’d
Current stimulus meaning: great effort on the
part of the speaker, usually more than the
speaker reckoned necessary when he set out
to do a certain task
Historic stimulus meaning: Spain colonies
fighting for their independence, during the
first part of the 19th
century
28
Step 2: Adapted Translation
Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ
French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ
UN WATERLOO
English: IT COST ME A WATERLOO
29
Step 3: Semantic Translation
Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ
French: J'AI DU FAIRE
BEAUCOUP D'EFFORT
English: IT TOOK ME
A GREAT EFFORT
30
Step 4: Idiomatic Translation
Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ
French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ TRÈS CHER
English: IT COST ME DEARLY
31
Note: to cost an armand a leg or
coûter la peau des fesses /les yeux de la tête
refer specifically to money
From the Times of Fables
French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU
DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ
32
Step 1: Literal Translation
French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU
DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ
English: DON’T SELL THE BEAR’S
FUR BEFORE YOU’VE KILLED IT
33
From the Times of Fables cont’d
 Current stimulus meaning: This idiom
reminds you that you should not anticipate
the results of an action that has not yet
taken place
 Historic stimulus meaning: Drawn from the
moral of the fable “The Bear and the Two
Friends” by Jean de La Fontaine (1621-1695)
34
From the Times of Fables cont’d
Il m ’a dit qu ’il ne faut
jamais
Vendre la peau de l'ours
qu'on ne l'ait mis par terre
35
From the Times of Fables cont’d
ÆSOP
“The bear and the two travelers”
→ image of the bear
whispering to the laying man
36
From the Times of Fables cont’d
ABSTEMIUS
→ idea of the fur for sale
 PHILIPPE DE COMMINES
→ entire story as historic event
37
Step 2: Adapted Translation
38
French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU
DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ
English: DON’T SELL THE GOLD YOU
HAVEN’T YET FOUND
Step 3: Semantic Translation
39
French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU
DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ
English: DON’T DEPEND HEAVILY
ON PLANS YOU’RE NOT SURE OF
Step 4: Idiomatic Translation
40
French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU
DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ
English: DON’T COUNT
YOUR CHICKENS
BEFORE THEY'RE
HATCHED
Conclusions
41
Notion of historic and current stimulus
meaning
Determine both the driving force —
diachronic—and the manifest force —
synchronic— of the idiomatic
expressions
Conclusions cont’d
42
Translation Sequence:
1. Literal Translation
→ first step in determining whether the
same experiential world is pertinent in
obtaining an idiomatic translation
Conclusions cont’d
43
Translation sequence:
2. Adapted Translation
→ drawing form a comparable
experiential world to maintain the
historic stimulus meaning
Conclusions cont’d
44
Translation sequence:
3. Semantic Translation
→ an explanation, rather than a
translation
- if adapted translation not satisfaying
- it may be the culmination of the process
Conclusions cont’d
45
Translation sequence:
4. Idiomatic Translation
→ drawing from a different experiential
world, in which case the historic
stimulus meaning of the idiom will
probably be lost, thus rescuing only its
current force
Conclusions cont’d
46
 The more an idiom draws from peculiar
aspects within a culture, the less its literal
translation will be understood without
further explanation, making it necessary to
run through these different steps in order to
obtain—or come closer to—an idiomatic
translation that sounds right to the native
speaker
Epilogue
47
Pay attention to “the ear in translation”
Gregory Rabassa
Epilogue cont’d
48
 “Faced with a choice between [two words],
the translator does not put the words on trial
and engage attorneys to defend and accuse.
Most probably, he hears the words in some
corner of his mind, and likes the sound of
one better than the other.”
William Weaver
Epilogue cont’d
49
Not only is it important to resort to
our own ear in translation, but to
constantly remember the ear of the
audience
Thank You!
50
Romina L. Marazzato

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Idioms Under the Microscope

  • 1. Presentation 2001 Idioms Under the Microscope The Logic Behind Mapping Solutions with examples in English, French, and Spanish Romina L. Marazzato
  • 2. 02/14/18 Objective Determine a method to establish an idiomatic translation 1
  • 3. Breaking the ice… 1 French: AVOIR D’AUTRES CHATS À FOUETTER English: HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY Have more important things to do 2
  • 4. Breaking the ice… 2 French: QUAND LES POULES AURONT DES DENTS English: WHEN PIGS FLY Never! 3
  • 5. Breaking the ice… 3 French: COUPER L’HERBE SOUS LES PIEDS DE QUELQU’UN English: BEAT SB TO THE PUNCH - PULL THE RUG OUT FROM UNDERNEATH SB Take somebody’s oportunity 4
  • 6. Breaking the ice… 4 French: AVOIR UN CHAT DANS LA GORGE English: TO HAVE A FROG IN ONE'S THROAT Be hoarse or husky 5
  • 7. Breaking the ice… 5 French: CELA ME FAIT UNE BELLE JAMBE English: A FAT LOT OF GOOD THAT DOES ME Be useless 6
  • 8. Methodology Borrow concepts from Philosophy of Language: “Translation and Meaning” by Willard Van Orman Quine 7
  • 9. Scenario Linguist in a virgin community Excluding all help of interpreters How do we understand the native’s tongue? 8
  • 10. Experimenting A rabbit scurries by The native says ‘Gavagai’ What prompts the native’s assent? 9
  • 11. Stimulus Meaning The class of all the stimulations that would prompt the speaker’s assent. 10
  • 12. Affirmative Stimulus Meaning σ ∈ M(S) iff ∃ σ’ / σ’ → D(k) & σ → A(k) σ, σ’= Stimulations S = Sentence S M = Affirmative stimulus meaning A(k), D(k) = Speaker’s Assent/Disent 11
  • 13. Pragmatics The study of language usage in relation with our acting upon others or in response of others’ acting upon ourselves “How to do things with words” John Austin 12
  • 14. Pragmatics & Translation As translators, we are called upon the difficult task of unveiling what other people are doing with their words in order to let speakers of other languages understand that as well 13
  • 15. Historic Stimulus Meaning Set of diachronic stimulations —origin, ethimology, variations— consciously or unconsciously present which allow for a broader understanding of the term in different contexts with different connotations 14
  • 16. Current Stimulus Meaning Set of synchronic stimulations —current usage, register, impact— that prompt the speaker’s assent allowing him to understand and apply the term in specific contexts with particular connotations 15
  • 17. Danica Seleskovitch’s Approach The more closely related two cultures are, the more translatable their languages will be La saisie du sens hors langue La réexpression de ce sens dans la langue cible 16
  • 18. Translation of Idioms In order to evaluate the translatability of an idiom, we need to establish the proximity of the two cultures regarding such idiom 17
  • 19. Translatability of Idioms If the literal translation of an idiom is understood—with or without further explanation—in the target language culture, this means the two cultures are related in the domain pertaining the understanding of the idiom, and the idiom may, indeed, be translated. 18
  • 20. Translatability of Idioms A If the literal translation of an idiom is understood in the target language culture without further explanation, this means the two cultures are closely related in the domain pertaining the idiom and the idiom may, indeed, be translated by an expression that will probably draw from the same or a comparable experiential world. 19
  • 21. Comparable Experiential World Spanish: MORIRSE DE RISA French literal: MOURIR DE RIRES English literal: DIE OF LAUGHTER 20 laugh loud and long / laugh until you ache
  • 22. Comparable Experiential World Spanish: MORIRSE DE RISA 21 French: RIRE À VENTRE DÉBOUTONÉ English: LAUGH YOURSELF SICK or LAUGH YOUR HEAD OFF
  • 23. Translatability of Idioms B If the literal translation of an idiom needs further explanation in the target language culture to be understood, this means the two cultures are not closely related in the domain pertaining the idiom and the idiom may, or may not, be translatable. 22
  • 24. Translatability of Idioms B cont’d If translatable, the target language rendering will either resort to a semantic solution (where the expression may be mentioned or explained rather than used), or draw from an experiential world different from that in the source language. 23
  • 25. Different Experiential World 24 Spanish: DEJARME FRÍO / HELADO French literal: ME LAISSER FROID English literal: LEAVE ME COLD be stunned or staggered
  • 26. Different Experiential World Spanish: ME DEJ FRÍO / HELADO 25 French: J'EN SUIS RESTÉ BABA (de surprise) English: IT BLEW MY MIND
  • 27. From Colonial Times Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ Variation: ME COSTÓ UN POTOSÍ 26
  • 28. Step 1: Literal Translation Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ UN PÉROU English: IT COST ME ONE PERU 27
  • 29. From Colonial Times cont’d Current stimulus meaning: great effort on the part of the speaker, usually more than the speaker reckoned necessary when he set out to do a certain task Historic stimulus meaning: Spain colonies fighting for their independence, during the first part of the 19th century 28
  • 30. Step 2: Adapted Translation Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ UN WATERLOO English: IT COST ME A WATERLOO 29
  • 31. Step 3: Semantic Translation Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ French: J'AI DU FAIRE BEAUCOUP D'EFFORT English: IT TOOK ME A GREAT EFFORT 30
  • 32. Step 4: Idiomatic Translation Spanish: ME COSTÓ UN PERÚ French: ÇA M’A COÛTÉ TRÈS CHER English: IT COST ME DEARLY 31 Note: to cost an armand a leg or coûter la peau des fesses /les yeux de la tête refer specifically to money
  • 33. From the Times of Fables French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ 32
  • 34. Step 1: Literal Translation French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ English: DON’T SELL THE BEAR’S FUR BEFORE YOU’VE KILLED IT 33
  • 35. From the Times of Fables cont’d  Current stimulus meaning: This idiom reminds you that you should not anticipate the results of an action that has not yet taken place  Historic stimulus meaning: Drawn from the moral of the fable “The Bear and the Two Friends” by Jean de La Fontaine (1621-1695) 34
  • 36. From the Times of Fables cont’d Il m ’a dit qu ’il ne faut jamais Vendre la peau de l'ours qu'on ne l'ait mis par terre 35
  • 37. From the Times of Fables cont’d ÆSOP “The bear and the two travelers” → image of the bear whispering to the laying man 36
  • 38. From the Times of Fables cont’d ABSTEMIUS → idea of the fur for sale  PHILIPPE DE COMMINES → entire story as historic event 37
  • 39. Step 2: Adapted Translation 38 French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ English: DON’T SELL THE GOLD YOU HAVEN’T YET FOUND
  • 40. Step 3: Semantic Translation 39 French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ English: DON’T DEPEND HEAVILY ON PLANS YOU’RE NOT SURE OF
  • 41. Step 4: Idiomatic Translation 40 French: NE VENDEZ PAS LA PEAU DE L’OURS AVANT DE L’AVOIR TUÉ English: DON’T COUNT YOUR CHICKENS BEFORE THEY'RE HATCHED
  • 42. Conclusions 41 Notion of historic and current stimulus meaning Determine both the driving force — diachronic—and the manifest force — synchronic— of the idiomatic expressions
  • 43. Conclusions cont’d 42 Translation Sequence: 1. Literal Translation → first step in determining whether the same experiential world is pertinent in obtaining an idiomatic translation
  • 44. Conclusions cont’d 43 Translation sequence: 2. Adapted Translation → drawing form a comparable experiential world to maintain the historic stimulus meaning
  • 45. Conclusions cont’d 44 Translation sequence: 3. Semantic Translation → an explanation, rather than a translation - if adapted translation not satisfaying - it may be the culmination of the process
  • 46. Conclusions cont’d 45 Translation sequence: 4. Idiomatic Translation → drawing from a different experiential world, in which case the historic stimulus meaning of the idiom will probably be lost, thus rescuing only its current force
  • 47. Conclusions cont’d 46  The more an idiom draws from peculiar aspects within a culture, the less its literal translation will be understood without further explanation, making it necessary to run through these different steps in order to obtain—or come closer to—an idiomatic translation that sounds right to the native speaker
  • 48. Epilogue 47 Pay attention to “the ear in translation” Gregory Rabassa
  • 49. Epilogue cont’d 48  “Faced with a choice between [two words], the translator does not put the words on trial and engage attorneys to defend and accuse. Most probably, he hears the words in some corner of his mind, and likes the sound of one better than the other.” William Weaver
  • 50. Epilogue cont’d 49 Not only is it important to resort to our own ear in translation, but to constantly remember the ear of the audience