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Mind Map 1
Rock sound
Aimed at people who
like indie rock so age
15 plus.
Content is going
to cover the gigs
and interview
from the latest
artists.
The front page will
feature the chosen
band to interview
Bold colours for
the mast head
with a blank colour
background that
makes the text
stand out.
The magazine will be sold every month so
that the magazine can have a month to
gather more information and content
The target audience will
be aimed at people who
like to dance. I have
contacted a band
member who will be
featuring in my
magazine. Here I have
the evidence to prove.
Mind Map 2
Hot Metal
This genre is going to be
based on the more rock
version of music instead of
my previous idea which was
based on the indie rock.
The colour scheme
of the magazine will
feature more wild
colours such as
bright red with a
black back ground.
The font style of
the magazine
would look wild
instead of the
indie look that
would tend to be
more of a simple
font
The target audience
would be aimed at
rock fans between
teen and mid 20
years. This is due to
the music bands
inspired fans to wear
different types of rock
fashion such as
piercings and make
up.
The masthead name will
be rock related in terms
of the heavy metal such
as mad rock returns.
The magazine will be
sold monthly. This is
due to the magazine
gathering more
content over the
month to make the
magazine better.
The main image on
the front cover will
feature the monthly
band that the
magazine interviews.
Mood Board
Mood Board
Masthead - Ideas
• I am going to relate the masthead to the band that I am going to feature in my
magazine called The Coasts. As I have mentioned previously in the slide I have a
family friend in the band. I was able to ask James Gamage the bass guitarist some
questions about the music magazine and how his music would fit in. I asked what
genre would you class your music. James then explained what he classed the band
as. At the end of the message James then said that “ as long as we make people
dance we are happy” so this gave me the idea of naming the magazine ROCK
DANCE. This is then linked with the ROCK SOUND magazine that I have been
studying and the band I am going to feature.
• I had also come up with the idea of calling the magazine
rocking sun as this brings the indie rock culture into the
picture. As the music is partly tropical the sun can
represent the tropical music along with the rocking.
This is then linked with the genre of my music magazine.
Masthead – Font Styles
• My Masthead is going to be kept looking smart , bold and simple with a hint of
tropical. Bellow are some ideas of how I am going to convert the tropical ocean ,
smart, bold and simple look. The back ground represents the ocean and tropical
colours. This then relates to the indie tropical rock genre that I am going to feature
in the magazine.
Masthead – Font Styles
For my second magazine idea I have chosen to base the genre on
heavy metal. This means that I need the font styles looking like they
look bold and hot. I have chosen the colours red and black the make
the mast head of the magazine stand out and look fierce to the
readers. This connotes to the readers that this magazine is scary and
full of hot metal music, this will be easily identified for the target
audience.
House Style
House Styles
House Styles
I based the house style on being red and black to connote the
magazine being hot with the latest's heavy metal music. The
metal connotes the genre of the music, the genre of the music
is heavy metal. This is why I have decided that I need to
include the name. This magazine will have the hottest heavy
metal music. The black and red connote scary and powerful
colours for the genre of the heavy metal music.
Hand drawn drafts 1(Rock Dance)
Under lined albums
text to make it stand
out
Here I have included
the colour change
down the front cover
so that the magazine
has more style. Rather
than one colour I have
merged two colours
down the front cover
of the magazine.
Here we have two head masts in front
of the image and then behind the
image. The magazine I am producing
will have the image in front of the text
to make the main image look more
important. My step dad will be on the
front indicating that he is going to be
the main story.
Included the free CD on
my magazine so that the
magazine become more
interesting to the
reader.
Hand Drafts 2 (Hot Metal)
The mast head has been
made a lighter colour
compared to the back
ground colour. This then
makes the mast head stand
out.
I have used the red
background to connote
the fire of the magazine
being hot with the new
albums.
I have made the main
image the band that
gest featured to show
the importance of the
new issue.
Here I have included a free CD
with the magazine to make the
magazine stand out when the
magazine gets distributed to
the shops.
Double Page Spread 1 (Rock Dance)
Here I have Taking the similar idea of making the background look the same. This
covers the genre of the rock, over the double page spread I have introduced a band of
rock that has been interviewed monthly. As this will be advertised in my magazine
double page spread. Open my double page spread Bandai will be interviewing are
going to be the coasts. The coasts are a band that my family friends are part of so I am
able to interview them and get an idea of what kind of style and music they like. This
double page spread is a good example when comparing to pop magazine. As the pop
magazine would have much for brighter colours and bold text. For boxes I have drawn a
double page spread are each questions that I would be asking the band. This displays a
double page spread of a good structure to the interview. This makes it much more
easier for the viewers to read.
Double Page Spread 2 (Hot Metal)
This double page spread is very similar to the one I have done previously. This
double page spread that I have done reveals a more open plan for the band image. I
have chosen this double page spread because of the layout of the text. As you can
see I have highlighted implacable red how the text forms into an L-shape. This is a
good layout because it gives their bands image in more Open View for how they
wanted viewers to see them as a band. The only difference I have chosen on the
double page spread in terms of colours. As for my magazines is going to feature
indie rock, the colours of the magazine is going to have to be a lot more brighter
than is going to be in a normal heavy rock magazine. Having the black and red
background with the text will be shall reveal the band image in the top and corner
more eye-catching than the previous double page spread.
Test photography
Here I had to go to the coast with my mate to take some photos to
link to my magazine which is the coast. The coasts links with the
band I am featuring. Here you can see that I have tried 2 different
camera angles with the coast in the background.
One picture is up close to the side with the coasts colours in the
background which is the blue and white. The second camera angle
that I have gone for is the front on camera shot with the full image of
the coast in the back ground. In this image you can see me and my
friend standing next to each other with the green, blue and white in
the back ground. In both cameras angles you can see that you can
see me in the images very clearly because of the coasts background
with the white and blue and green make me stand out.
Target audience
• The target audience for the Rock Dance magazine is teenage rock fans between the age of 15 to 22. Using Katz’
Uses and Gratification theory, the target audience can relate to the musicians and bands within the magazine and
feel a close bond with the subjects. This enables the audience to escape from reality for a while, giving the
publishers an opportunity to educate and market to the target group.
• There is an argument that the target audience for “Rock Sound” are ‘social climbers’ (Maslow’s Hierarchy of
Needs), driven by improving their status in society and using the magazine to exist virtually in a fantasy world. This
is evidenced by the way in which the narrative is directed at the reader
• Dissecting the target audience using Hartley’s 7 subjectivities, the target audience could be considered as:
– Aged 15 to 22
– Predominantly male (the articles and photographs are predominantly male biased)
– Predominantly middle class (the advertisements and “gig” calendars identify price points suitable for middle income individuals)
– Gothic in style (the photographs and fashion comments suggest this)
– Predominately from native America (the origins of rock)
• As rock is a very loud and grown up kind of music the magazine is not for young children due to
some of the images of the rock stars in their make up. This may scare children due to the images
being inappropriate to them. Some rock stars in the magazine wear make up and have body
piercing. Some like to give the image as a very dark and casual look with facial hair. As the tone of
the rock period is moving on , different types of fashion are coming in to place. The magazine is
therefore targeting young adults that like to keep up to date with the rock fashion. As make up and
piercings are going out of style, the magazine wants to introduce more and more different types of
rock fashion.
Target Audience
• The target audience for the Hot Metal magazine is teenage rock fans between the age of 18- 45. Using
Katz’ Uses and Gratification theory, the target audience can relate to the musicians and bands within the
magazine and feel a close bond with the subjects. This enables the audience to escape from reality for a
while, giving the publishers an opportunity to educate and market to the target group.
• There is an argument that the target audience for “Hot Metal” are ‘social climbers’ (Maslow’s Hierarchy
of Needs), driven by improving their status in society and using the magazine to exist virtually in a fantasy
world. This is evidenced by the way in which the narrative is directed at the reader
• Dissecting the target audience using Hartley’s 7 subjectivities, the target audience could be considered as:
– Aged 18 to 45
– Predominantly male (the articles and photographs are predominantly male biased)
– Predominantly middle class (the advertisements and “gig” calendars identify price points suitable for middle income
individuals)
– Gothic in style (the photographs and fashion comments suggest this)
– Predominately from native America (the origins of rock)
This genre of rock is considered as lot more full on than my first idea which is
based on indie rock. This genre of rock contains stronger language and imagery
that some people may find distressing. This is due to the influence the music
put the target audience. Piercings and crazy hair styles are considered to be all
part of the culture of Heavy metal rock.
Ideas to repeat- Graphic layout
Mast head
Main
headline
Barcode
Main image
Free
Posters
Ideas to repeat
Main
image
Interview
Q&A
Flat Plan
Flat Plan – 2nd Idea
My Magazine Final
My magazine of inspiration is called rock sound. My magazine will be produced as a new product to
be launched in the genre of indie rock. The magazine will be aimed at adults due to the magazine
having text that some young people will not be able to understand. This is because the magazines
genre is based on indie rock which links with the lyrics that are used within the songs.
The songs are based on love so the lyrics are aimed at both genders in terms of love. Love is classed as
something people start to get into as they get older. Therefore the genre is aimed at older people
between the age of 18+ when people get into love. People with a healthy and controlled life style are
able to access the magazine. Meaning that the customer must have a job to be able to pay for the
cost of the magazine.
Photoshop Front Cover
Photoshop DPS
Masthead – Final Idea
Here is the final idea for the masthead, I have been inspired to use the similar design to
what the coasts use for there album. The text makes it look like its in a tropical
atmosphere. The back ground gives out a ocean colour effect with the font style
looking very smart and simple as this type of rock is a lot more calmer than other types
of rock such as heavy metal. Below I have taken a screen shot of what their album
colours and font style look like. I have then gone onto a cool text website and chosen a
similar font style and colours to the album cover of the coasts.
House Style
• Black back ground
• Bright colours such as red to show DANGER
• Bold text
Photoshop 2nd Idea Front Cover
Photoshop 2nd Idea DPS
Font style
• I have chosen this as my font style because
this style is bold. Heavy metal music is about
being loud and bold. This is where I got the
idea from. Linking the style to the genre of the
font style is very important.
Proposal 1
This is my first proposal idea for the music
magazine that I want to produce. In this
word document that I have completed is a
break down of what I needed to include
within the magazine for my first idea. For
example the first idea I wanted to produce
has the genre of Indie rock. Every bit of
content and house style was broken down
into this document.
Proposal 2
This is the template that I
used for my second music
magazine idea. Instead of
the first idea being about
indie rock. I have decided to
make this one about heavy
metal rock. Here I have
explained what content I
am going to include about
the heavy metal rock.
Magazine interview inspiration
• I have used the interviews in side my
magazine of inspiration. This is found in the
middle section of the magazine Rock Sound.
They have inspired me to use the similar
house style that they have used in the double
page spread that they have used.
• This then allows the interview to have a
clearly detailed structure to the magazine.
They have inspired me to ask a detailed open
questions in the interview with the featured
bands.
• The interview has been set out in the similar
as Rock Sounds to give the same effect. This
way also looks more professional. The
featured band have to sit on a sofa in a calm
atmosphere so they can give me the answers
feeling comfortably .
Draft Article
This is my draft article
where I ask the featured
artists all the questions. To
make it easy for the reader
to identify the questions
and answers, I made sure
that they were put into
different colour’s. For
example here I have got
the questions in Blue and
then answers in Red. When
I then placed the article in
the magazine I made the
colours more appropriate
to suit my house style.
Photo shop
• To get the image that you want onto
the canvas you must as the screen
shots show. Click file then place. You
will then have the option of being able
to select the image that you want.
Photo shop
This is then the image with the
lines around it. You can use the
resizing tool which allows you
to change the size and angle of
the image. You can then also
click on the image and press
control T. this gives you the
access to the sizing tool.
Colour
Here I used the eye dropper tool to be
able to select the correct colour for my
images and text boxes.
All the images had to have exactly the
same colour to look very formal.
Size Tool
Here I was able to re size the images. As
the moment I can re size this image. Due
tot the grey lines surrounding the image.
To get to this stage you must have the
image selected. You can then push control
T.
Conclusion
• Within the LO3 I have shown how the coasts back ground for the front cover has
made an impact on where the singers will be seen on the front cover. I have shown
the images of what type of clothes that the band will be wearing within the phot
shoot. The stereotype that I have included within the photo plan shows the rock
guitar and shades that are used typically within rock. So I have shown that you can
link the typical rock theme with the band that I am going to be featuring which is
going to be about the tropical coast indie rock. I have shown images of how I want
to show the band on the front cover looking fresh, cool and smart. I have made
sure that the mast head is easy to read and able to catch the eye in the shops
where they will be sold. The text will be bold in front of the white clouds on the
magazine. As the clouds are in the coasts back ground that I have taken a picture
of in the test photography.

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Lo3- Be able to develop ideas by creating proposals and sample materials for two original print- base products

  • 1.
  • 2. Mind Map 1 Rock sound Aimed at people who like indie rock so age 15 plus. Content is going to cover the gigs and interview from the latest artists. The front page will feature the chosen band to interview Bold colours for the mast head with a blank colour background that makes the text stand out. The magazine will be sold every month so that the magazine can have a month to gather more information and content The target audience will be aimed at people who like to dance. I have contacted a band member who will be featuring in my magazine. Here I have the evidence to prove.
  • 3. Mind Map 2 Hot Metal This genre is going to be based on the more rock version of music instead of my previous idea which was based on the indie rock. The colour scheme of the magazine will feature more wild colours such as bright red with a black back ground. The font style of the magazine would look wild instead of the indie look that would tend to be more of a simple font The target audience would be aimed at rock fans between teen and mid 20 years. This is due to the music bands inspired fans to wear different types of rock fashion such as piercings and make up. The masthead name will be rock related in terms of the heavy metal such as mad rock returns. The magazine will be sold monthly. This is due to the magazine gathering more content over the month to make the magazine better. The main image on the front cover will feature the monthly band that the magazine interviews.
  • 6. Masthead - Ideas • I am going to relate the masthead to the band that I am going to feature in my magazine called The Coasts. As I have mentioned previously in the slide I have a family friend in the band. I was able to ask James Gamage the bass guitarist some questions about the music magazine and how his music would fit in. I asked what genre would you class your music. James then explained what he classed the band as. At the end of the message James then said that “ as long as we make people dance we are happy” so this gave me the idea of naming the magazine ROCK DANCE. This is then linked with the ROCK SOUND magazine that I have been studying and the band I am going to feature. • I had also come up with the idea of calling the magazine rocking sun as this brings the indie rock culture into the picture. As the music is partly tropical the sun can represent the tropical music along with the rocking. This is then linked with the genre of my music magazine.
  • 7. Masthead – Font Styles • My Masthead is going to be kept looking smart , bold and simple with a hint of tropical. Bellow are some ideas of how I am going to convert the tropical ocean , smart, bold and simple look. The back ground represents the ocean and tropical colours. This then relates to the indie tropical rock genre that I am going to feature in the magazine.
  • 8. Masthead – Font Styles For my second magazine idea I have chosen to base the genre on heavy metal. This means that I need the font styles looking like they look bold and hot. I have chosen the colours red and black the make the mast head of the magazine stand out and look fierce to the readers. This connotes to the readers that this magazine is scary and full of hot metal music, this will be easily identified for the target audience.
  • 11. House Styles I based the house style on being red and black to connote the magazine being hot with the latest's heavy metal music. The metal connotes the genre of the music, the genre of the music is heavy metal. This is why I have decided that I need to include the name. This magazine will have the hottest heavy metal music. The black and red connote scary and powerful colours for the genre of the heavy metal music.
  • 12. Hand drawn drafts 1(Rock Dance) Under lined albums text to make it stand out Here I have included the colour change down the front cover so that the magazine has more style. Rather than one colour I have merged two colours down the front cover of the magazine. Here we have two head masts in front of the image and then behind the image. The magazine I am producing will have the image in front of the text to make the main image look more important. My step dad will be on the front indicating that he is going to be the main story. Included the free CD on my magazine so that the magazine become more interesting to the reader.
  • 13. Hand Drafts 2 (Hot Metal) The mast head has been made a lighter colour compared to the back ground colour. This then makes the mast head stand out. I have used the red background to connote the fire of the magazine being hot with the new albums. I have made the main image the band that gest featured to show the importance of the new issue. Here I have included a free CD with the magazine to make the magazine stand out when the magazine gets distributed to the shops.
  • 14. Double Page Spread 1 (Rock Dance) Here I have Taking the similar idea of making the background look the same. This covers the genre of the rock, over the double page spread I have introduced a band of rock that has been interviewed monthly. As this will be advertised in my magazine double page spread. Open my double page spread Bandai will be interviewing are going to be the coasts. The coasts are a band that my family friends are part of so I am able to interview them and get an idea of what kind of style and music they like. This double page spread is a good example when comparing to pop magazine. As the pop magazine would have much for brighter colours and bold text. For boxes I have drawn a double page spread are each questions that I would be asking the band. This displays a double page spread of a good structure to the interview. This makes it much more easier for the viewers to read.
  • 15. Double Page Spread 2 (Hot Metal) This double page spread is very similar to the one I have done previously. This double page spread that I have done reveals a more open plan for the band image. I have chosen this double page spread because of the layout of the text. As you can see I have highlighted implacable red how the text forms into an L-shape. This is a good layout because it gives their bands image in more Open View for how they wanted viewers to see them as a band. The only difference I have chosen on the double page spread in terms of colours. As for my magazines is going to feature indie rock, the colours of the magazine is going to have to be a lot more brighter than is going to be in a normal heavy rock magazine. Having the black and red background with the text will be shall reveal the band image in the top and corner more eye-catching than the previous double page spread.
  • 16. Test photography Here I had to go to the coast with my mate to take some photos to link to my magazine which is the coast. The coasts links with the band I am featuring. Here you can see that I have tried 2 different camera angles with the coast in the background. One picture is up close to the side with the coasts colours in the background which is the blue and white. The second camera angle that I have gone for is the front on camera shot with the full image of the coast in the back ground. In this image you can see me and my friend standing next to each other with the green, blue and white in the back ground. In both cameras angles you can see that you can see me in the images very clearly because of the coasts background with the white and blue and green make me stand out.
  • 17. Target audience • The target audience for the Rock Dance magazine is teenage rock fans between the age of 15 to 22. Using Katz’ Uses and Gratification theory, the target audience can relate to the musicians and bands within the magazine and feel a close bond with the subjects. This enables the audience to escape from reality for a while, giving the publishers an opportunity to educate and market to the target group. • There is an argument that the target audience for “Rock Sound” are ‘social climbers’ (Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs), driven by improving their status in society and using the magazine to exist virtually in a fantasy world. This is evidenced by the way in which the narrative is directed at the reader • Dissecting the target audience using Hartley’s 7 subjectivities, the target audience could be considered as: – Aged 15 to 22 – Predominantly male (the articles and photographs are predominantly male biased) – Predominantly middle class (the advertisements and “gig” calendars identify price points suitable for middle income individuals) – Gothic in style (the photographs and fashion comments suggest this) – Predominately from native America (the origins of rock) • As rock is a very loud and grown up kind of music the magazine is not for young children due to some of the images of the rock stars in their make up. This may scare children due to the images being inappropriate to them. Some rock stars in the magazine wear make up and have body piercing. Some like to give the image as a very dark and casual look with facial hair. As the tone of the rock period is moving on , different types of fashion are coming in to place. The magazine is therefore targeting young adults that like to keep up to date with the rock fashion. As make up and piercings are going out of style, the magazine wants to introduce more and more different types of rock fashion.
  • 18. Target Audience • The target audience for the Hot Metal magazine is teenage rock fans between the age of 18- 45. Using Katz’ Uses and Gratification theory, the target audience can relate to the musicians and bands within the magazine and feel a close bond with the subjects. This enables the audience to escape from reality for a while, giving the publishers an opportunity to educate and market to the target group. • There is an argument that the target audience for “Hot Metal” are ‘social climbers’ (Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs), driven by improving their status in society and using the magazine to exist virtually in a fantasy world. This is evidenced by the way in which the narrative is directed at the reader • Dissecting the target audience using Hartley’s 7 subjectivities, the target audience could be considered as: – Aged 18 to 45 – Predominantly male (the articles and photographs are predominantly male biased) – Predominantly middle class (the advertisements and “gig” calendars identify price points suitable for middle income individuals) – Gothic in style (the photographs and fashion comments suggest this) – Predominately from native America (the origins of rock) This genre of rock is considered as lot more full on than my first idea which is based on indie rock. This genre of rock contains stronger language and imagery that some people may find distressing. This is due to the influence the music put the target audience. Piercings and crazy hair styles are considered to be all part of the culture of Heavy metal rock.
  • 19. Ideas to repeat- Graphic layout Mast head Main headline Barcode Main image Free Posters
  • 22.
  • 23.
  • 24. Flat Plan – 2nd Idea
  • 25.
  • 26.
  • 27. My Magazine Final My magazine of inspiration is called rock sound. My magazine will be produced as a new product to be launched in the genre of indie rock. The magazine will be aimed at adults due to the magazine having text that some young people will not be able to understand. This is because the magazines genre is based on indie rock which links with the lyrics that are used within the songs. The songs are based on love so the lyrics are aimed at both genders in terms of love. Love is classed as something people start to get into as they get older. Therefore the genre is aimed at older people between the age of 18+ when people get into love. People with a healthy and controlled life style are able to access the magazine. Meaning that the customer must have a job to be able to pay for the cost of the magazine.
  • 30. Masthead – Final Idea Here is the final idea for the masthead, I have been inspired to use the similar design to what the coasts use for there album. The text makes it look like its in a tropical atmosphere. The back ground gives out a ocean colour effect with the font style looking very smart and simple as this type of rock is a lot more calmer than other types of rock such as heavy metal. Below I have taken a screen shot of what their album colours and font style look like. I have then gone onto a cool text website and chosen a similar font style and colours to the album cover of the coasts.
  • 31. House Style • Black back ground • Bright colours such as red to show DANGER • Bold text
  • 32. Photoshop 2nd Idea Front Cover
  • 34. Font style • I have chosen this as my font style because this style is bold. Heavy metal music is about being loud and bold. This is where I got the idea from. Linking the style to the genre of the font style is very important.
  • 35. Proposal 1 This is my first proposal idea for the music magazine that I want to produce. In this word document that I have completed is a break down of what I needed to include within the magazine for my first idea. For example the first idea I wanted to produce has the genre of Indie rock. Every bit of content and house style was broken down into this document.
  • 36. Proposal 2 This is the template that I used for my second music magazine idea. Instead of the first idea being about indie rock. I have decided to make this one about heavy metal rock. Here I have explained what content I am going to include about the heavy metal rock.
  • 37. Magazine interview inspiration • I have used the interviews in side my magazine of inspiration. This is found in the middle section of the magazine Rock Sound. They have inspired me to use the similar house style that they have used in the double page spread that they have used. • This then allows the interview to have a clearly detailed structure to the magazine. They have inspired me to ask a detailed open questions in the interview with the featured bands. • The interview has been set out in the similar as Rock Sounds to give the same effect. This way also looks more professional. The featured band have to sit on a sofa in a calm atmosphere so they can give me the answers feeling comfortably .
  • 38. Draft Article This is my draft article where I ask the featured artists all the questions. To make it easy for the reader to identify the questions and answers, I made sure that they were put into different colour’s. For example here I have got the questions in Blue and then answers in Red. When I then placed the article in the magazine I made the colours more appropriate to suit my house style.
  • 39. Photo shop • To get the image that you want onto the canvas you must as the screen shots show. Click file then place. You will then have the option of being able to select the image that you want.
  • 40. Photo shop This is then the image with the lines around it. You can use the resizing tool which allows you to change the size and angle of the image. You can then also click on the image and press control T. this gives you the access to the sizing tool.
  • 41. Colour Here I used the eye dropper tool to be able to select the correct colour for my images and text boxes. All the images had to have exactly the same colour to look very formal.
  • 42. Size Tool Here I was able to re size the images. As the moment I can re size this image. Due tot the grey lines surrounding the image. To get to this stage you must have the image selected. You can then push control T.
  • 43. Conclusion • Within the LO3 I have shown how the coasts back ground for the front cover has made an impact on where the singers will be seen on the front cover. I have shown the images of what type of clothes that the band will be wearing within the phot shoot. The stereotype that I have included within the photo plan shows the rock guitar and shades that are used typically within rock. So I have shown that you can link the typical rock theme with the band that I am going to be featuring which is going to be about the tropical coast indie rock. I have shown images of how I want to show the band on the front cover looking fresh, cool and smart. I have made sure that the mast head is easy to read and able to catch the eye in the shops where they will be sold. The text will be bold in front of the white clouds on the magazine. As the clouds are in the coasts back ground that I have taken a picture of in the test photography.

Editor's Notes

  1. Drop capital, differentiated Qs and As and Stand First
  2. Change picture – Metal look needed and DPS as well