Chat from EdgeTalks 8 September – Radical redesign and disruption – the next frontier for social prescribing

1. Chat from #edgetalks 8 September 2017
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Hi all its nice to be early for something :)
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Morning all, it's raining here in York - hope it's better where you are.
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
Morning all from a drizzly Coventry!
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
now I know it all works I'll rejoin shortly as I need to find my phone charger. I got soaked walking
the dog earlier! Dartmoor, Devon
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Hammering down in Sheffield but a nice cuppa never hurts
from leeann monk to all participants:
Not raining here in Derry City, N.Ireland but very cold...summer is gone :(
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
I've been looking at some of the footage from Grand Turk as I visited there a few years ago, we
could all have much worse weather!
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Sad that summer has gone, but looking forward to all those lovely rich autumn colours on the
trees!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Hi Bev we have sent you some questions so that we can run a poll before the session starts
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Anyone know of applications of social prescribing in children and young people?
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Great question Steve, not aware of any, but would love to know more myself, particularly support
for children around being active and reducing obesity. Any ideas anyone?
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Are you based in Wakefield Creative minds?
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
Question I've been asked to pose by a colleague: What are the activities that are showing best
outcomes and if bidding for funds how do we go about estimating impact and savings with
something difficult to evidence?
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
will make contact as I work in SWYT
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Morning everyone!
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Bev perhaps the literature around the power of being connected; social interaction and impact of
exercise on mod?
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
mood sorry bev
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
I work in CAMHS
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Beverley, have you seen the Evidence Review from University of Westminster? This shows
reductions in GP consultations (28%) and A&E attendance (24%)

2. from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Wakefield
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
will check it out we have a YP participation group but social prescribing is something we do not
have
from Leigh Kendall to all participants:
Good morning all! Thanks for joining us. I'm going to be Twitter monitor - if you're on there, do get
involved - we're @horizonsnhs and please use #edgetalks
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
cheers Debbie yeah and i guess it can medicalise it
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
The Department of Health has just opened a £5 million social prescribing fund. Closing date 21st
November. Aimed at VCSE organisations, but you need a partnership with your CCG/ local
authority, as they need to co-fund in years 2 and 3.
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Don’t suppose you have a link for that Bev?
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Easy just to google - called the Health and Wellbeing Fund, but we can ask Janet to put a link up
on the website after this webinar
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
The fund is what we're hoping to bid for funding in - as an STP.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Yes very happy to do so!
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Just emailed you Debbie
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Thanks Bev
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Here it is: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-wellbeing-fund-2017-to-2018-
application-form
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Cheers Janet
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
I'm developing a team - will have 2 vacancies on NHS Jobs website on Monday - Development
Manager and Development Officer, either based in Leeds or London. Full-time, fixed term to
March 19. Come and work with me...help us to build it!
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Please could you answer the questions on the poll before we start the session at 9.30am. Thank
you!
from Lauren Wiggins to all participants:
Morning all from London - rainy here too
from Lauren Wiggins to all participants:
No
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
Good morning everyone, any questions or problems please let me know
from Beverley Taylor to all participants:
Hello All , Bev Taylor (ex NAVCA) no 2 here !! looking forward to hearing discussions
from Janet Wildman to all participants:

3. how can we address the power shift?
from Geoff Doncaster to all participants:
accessible information, support and advocacy
from Andrew Earnshaw to all participants:
Thesis to explore: I'm intrigued that 3 (knowledge gap) is the greatest issue in poll re barriers. My
sense is that 4 (GPs and Primary Care) would tell you that, but if their daily motivations were
different (i.e. not so focused on the clinical) then they would overcome this barrier on their own.
Providing tools that overcome info. gaps have been tried time and time again, with limited uptake
by clinicians.
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Social prescribing should be part of all MDTs.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
good point Jane
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
I know in our area services/ activities etc are set up and then funding means they suddenly
disappear which is a shame
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Great to see system partners acknowledged - LAS, VCSE ( and not for profit SMEs)
from lee spokes to all participants:
was at recent #KFAHPs event, when a Physio service ( non-medical ) proven in cost reduction,
efficiency, outcomes was not commissioned... what hope for a further shift out? Culture shift from
GP-commissioning paramount...
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Some funding is important - statutory step up and get out of the way (of the communities)!
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Communities are the key I definitely agree
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Firstly we have to get Clinicians to accept that Social prescribing is a valid part of the planning
process for rehabilitation of MH patients.
from Beverley Taylor to all participants:
agree Andrew Earnshaw , working with some GP's currently they would say " tell us how " and
allow us " the permissions" to do so , practice managers are a key factor here as well
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
So true Lee! MSK = 25% GP attendances. MSK physio best clinician to address
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Grea to hear arts and crreatives mentioned!
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
and yet these arts are being reduced in many schools!
from Beverley Taylor to all participants:
can NHSE Communciation Strategy help here ?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
So true Bev!
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Debs you are so just not a RIO number- heartfelt frustration
from Jane Moore to all participants:
"We want a life not just a service" - heard it so many times.
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
me too Jane!

4. from Carl Adams to all participants:
AHP can give great support and expertise to social prescribing, Must give them the chance and
support to do it
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
This artwork is amazing Deb <3
from lee spokes to all participants:
We're so entrenched in a medical model, that to leave medics in charge of commissioning /
prescribing non-medical services is against professional bias. How do we put AHPs ( experts in
arts, msk, occupation ) in commissioning roles?
from Carl Adams to all participants:
Agree Lee, AHP need to put there hand in the mix too
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Great comment Lee! Some AHPs are on CCG Board? and in LAs OTs are key assessors?
from lee spokes to all participants:
ref : Beverly Taylor - who represents Practice Managers / Business Managers - do they have a
lobbying / professional voice?
from Beverley Taylor to all participants:
how can we we "protect" people like Debbs with lived experience from having their own peer
support hours reduced by their local commissioners this cannot be right !
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Who leads for Social Prescribing at NHSE/ NHSI?
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
we so frequently don’t count the cost of stopping things!
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
How do we empower the community to shout out for different approaches? To be heard and views
respected.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
So proud of this story from Debbs.
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Great point by Deb! The system cost. The Place Pound
from Lauren Wiggins to all participants:
Thank you Debs for sharing your inspiring story!
from leeann monk to all participants:
Amazing Debs :)
from Carl Adams to all participants:
Thanks Debs, Thank you for sharing
from Leigh Kendall to all participants:
What a wonderful story, Thanks for sharing Debs.
from Byron Johnson Brown to all participants:
Thank you for sharing your story
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
Very brave to share such an honest personal story
from Jane Moore to all participants:
Thanks Deb, that is inspiring and this message needs to be heard widely!
from Ruth Twiggins to all participants:
Thank you for sharing Debs
from Zoe Lord to all participants:
Thank you for sharing your story - very powerful & wow!!

5. from Beverley Taylor to all participants:
re practice managers , I know there is practice managers association ?
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
Your the best Bev!
from helen bevan to all participants:
Fantastic to see so many of you on the webex today. So much potential here. I'm sorry i can't be
with you live as I'm facilitating a national event today but I will watch the recording later. I think that
many, many people will want to watch the recording. With best wishes
from lee spokes to all participants:
This presentation from Debs goes to heart of issue "what matters to you, not what's the matter
with you" and a 10minute GP consultation is not the platform....
from lee spokes to all participants:
brilliant, brilliant brilliant Debbs
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Thanks for all your questions. I'm the social prescribing lead at NHS England and I'm going to
answer all your questions, but perhaps after the session, due to time constraints.
from leeann monk to all participants:
Beverley Taylor, i agree the practice managers need to be part of this :) Didn’t know there was a
practice managers association, thanks for this :)
from Jackie Gillespie to all participants:
Debs thank you so much-truly inspiring!
from lee spokes to all participants:
Other quick question - if we need to engage practice managers, where on earth do Healthwatch sit
in this?
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
There is a Practice Managers Association. We need Practice Managers to lead this. They are key
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
We will save and share the chat after the session so anything we don't get a chance to cover can
be responded to later
from leeann monk to all participants:
Love the breathe boxes, great little touch and also involves volunteers :)
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
30% less! fantastic! and quality of life measures would have improved too!
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
do we have social capital metrics recognised by NHs national?
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
What does this say about funding- we need to radically think about a more systematic and co-
ordinated approach.
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
NHS England is committed to building a Common Framework for Measuring the Impact of Social
Prescribing, so we can all measure the same things across the country. About to recruit a
Development Manager for this role.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
This is a fantastic opportunity Bev! Tell us more.
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Ben would be really interested in being in a reference group for this programme
from Janet Wildman to all participants:

6. So important to capture and use the outcomes of this work to champion better primary care and
community services
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
We want to measure the impact on the person, the impact on the system and the impact on
community. We will be sharing a draft of this, so that we can get feedback and co-produce with
everyone.
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
brilliant Bev
from Jackie Gillespie to all participants:
it is the 'small things' which can make so much difference to life. being temporarily immobile this
has sharpened my focus.
from Jane Ansell to all participants:
Because the social activity, like Debs Art can be available 24x7 it provides a consistency of
intervention that cannot be given by the medical model.
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
is this Rob Webster's Trust?
from Jackie Gillespie to all participants:
Looking longer term means short term funding for projects provides limited benefit.
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
We know that SPx works, we have been doing this for just over 2 years in Sheffield. But metrics
and measurement is so difficult, the changes to peoples lives can we so different. It is too simple
to draw a straight line from intervention to reduction in A&E or GP appts or cost savings
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:
Sarah Armstrongs passion and leadership is a key factor as well to the relationship building that is
needed for the connectors
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
janet cna you tweet the Uni Westminster figs please? ( to RT ) :)
from Emma Ryan to all participants:
Yes please to tweeting Uni Westminster figures
from leeann monk to all participants:
Can we get access to Westminster research please?
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Emma have you thought about qualitative metrics i.e., what do you feel has made the biggest
difference to x, y or Z.
from Janet Wildman to all participants:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0a
hUKEwiGuvvCnZXWAhWpLMAKHeTRDWYQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.westminster
.ac.uk%2Fpatient-outcomes-in-health-research-group%2Fprojects%2Fsocial-prescribing-
network&usg=AFQjCNF2IBr-G4gjVrnLodhEYYa3TZA-qQ Westminster research
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Iknow measurement in social contexts is complex but the easier the better?
from Sirinda Bhandal to all participants:
Great thanks for the link Janet
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
yes, we have some very powerful case studies but decision makers want hard cost savings
metrics
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:

7. some good learning from the Realising the Value programme re a different measure of value
http://www.nesta.org.uk/project/realising-value
from Ruth Twiggins to all participants:
Its not just about Primary Care - people can be identified through different route - job center
housing trusts etc - not everyone goes to GP - some go straight to A&E
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
schools, youth centres, cubs? any place where people have a chance to connect with each
other...even if its just a poster
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Yes, Ruth is right. Self referral, AHP, mental health trusts and acute providers can also be
involved in social prescribing. We are however, committed to spreading across general practice,
as quickly as possible.
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
we have a many open door approach in Sheffield, we started with GPs but have community, self,
other professionals referrals
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Social prescribing is also the integrator between health and social care. In Kirklees they've found
that people don't need the expensive care packages they are eligible for, because they have been
supported through community development.
from Lynsey Nicholson to all participants:
Echo Sarah's statement- the importance of volunteers to spread the growth of the service.
Communities taking ownership of this approach will drive it forward
from Paul Woodley to All Attendees:
from Clare Cooper (privately):
Great work Sarah. I manage a social prescribing programme in Northern Ireland working over 15
GP Practices and also accepting referrals from AHP, funded by Western Health and Social Care
Board. We also face the same challenges; funding, funds following the patient and in the
beginning changing the perception of GP's. Slowly but surely we are overcoming this and now
have GP practices contacting us to avail of the programme, have been accepted to have our
referral on CCG and building on referral numbers with just over 400 in the last 2 and a half years.
Social Prescribing works!
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Yes everyone, check out the Realising the Value resources. They may help with conversations
with commissioners.
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
As well as Art i wonder if people have thought about the power of story telling or other creative
things music? sport? cooking or baking? etc
from Clare Cooper to All Panelists:
Our Social Prescribing Programme has just went live with Elemental Software and i cannot
recommend it enough. Not only it is beneficial for social prescribing it is also great for our other
programmes and services running in our healthy living centre!
from leeann monk to all participants:
Hi Clare. Great to see you online for this :)
from lee spokes to all participants:
Hi Clare C, would love to hear more - have a sneaking suspicion we may have spoken previously
inb a different context!
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
There's a list of different activities and descriptions on our mental health trust website

8. from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
SPx is not new, the VCF have been doing this for years. A person centred asset base approach is
so important.. led by the person and not 'done to' people. Not a programme but building resilience
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
Agree so much with Emma Dickinson, this is not new, it's just that health really needs it now!
from Clare Cooper to All Panelists:
Hi Lee, happy to have a chat if you have any questions.
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:
a measure of wellbeing as the accepted "currency" ONS measure incorporate into framework
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
yes true Emma, but the new NHS funding stream has been helpful? Especially as LA £ signif
reduced as have charitable donations
from Bev Taylor to all participants:
We are all building a social prescribing movement. We're all leading this. We're not going to stop
until this is everywhere!
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
also philosophy of moving form patriarchal to person centred
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:
As everyone is saying SP been here for years pick up the learning and lessons from social care
including the what didn’t work
from Ruth Twiggins to all participants:
GENIE platform is also worth looking at - focus on social networks University of Southampton link
to the website is: https://genie-net.org/
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Great to hear housing mentioned a lot!
from leeann monk to all participants:
Lynne yes they have a massive part to play and are willing to be part of it which is brilliant :)
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Loving the platforms but remember every LA had to produce a Directory of services in response to
the Care Act
from Jane Moore to all participants:
Question - STP programme leads are redesigning services as we speak - how can we influence
service redesign and pathway redesign to consider inclusion of social prescribing? I imagine it
would tick a lot of their boxes. (Or is this already happening anywhere?)
from leeann monk to all participants:
Hi Lynne, yes you are right we can’t forgot these directory of services exist and we can connect
with these :)
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
How is national Social Px team linking in with Housing LiN ?
from lee spokes to all participants:
Quick thought, does the NI model work better as Health & Social care already integrated in name
- is success of SPx more likely if disparate systems already talking to each other?
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
definitely we need to move away from patriarchal system to ownership, the person in charge
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:
really like the "safeguard " that people are picked up if disengage..... crucial to keeping people well
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Great Q re STPs - focus currently elsewhere ?

9. from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
Our STP is looking to see where to link in to this whole area as part of our integrated care
redesign work
from leeann monk to all participants:
100% Bev we all need each other :)
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
this has soooo got to be about children and young people as the next generation - the way we
change the way our society works
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
A universal set of metrics, impact on system and the person vvv important
from Beverley Taylor to All Panelists:
agree totally Bev broader than health " people as partners " is the quote !
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
Some of this is held back by lack of shared data systems
from Clare Cooper to All Panelists:
Elemental Software will help the Bogside & Brandywell Health Forum to continue to build on our
social prescribing programme. Easy to use, great for producing reports at the click of a button,
great for keeping up to date with what services are available in all areas and quick and easy
access for GP's to keep track of patients referred. Great work Jennifer and Leeann!!
from Melissa Smith to all participants:
what was the name of the funding? sorry missed the first part
from leeann monk to all participants:
Thanks Clare :)
from lee spokes to all participants:
last thought, where do Social Impact Bonds fit into the funding model?
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
I have missed the Liverpool event, where was this advertised?
from Emma Ryan to all participants:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-wellbeing-fund-2017-to-2018-application-
form
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
that is heartening news re STPs! :)
from Byron Johnson Brown to all participants:
The Department of Health has launched a new £5 million fund, supporting local health and care
partnerships to develop social prescribing. Voluntary, community and social enterprise
organisations are invited to apply for up to £300k in the first year of the three year programme to
develop social prescribing ‘connector’ schemes. Partnership bids are essential with CCGs, GPs
and local authorities, as a commitment is needed to find 50% of the funds locally in year two and
80% in year three, to promote sustainability. Closing date: 21 November.
Application pack: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/health-and-wellbeing-fund-2017-to-
2018-application-form
from Jane Moore to all participants:
Great to hear STPs are including this.
from Emma Dickinson to all participants:
We need to get NHS and CCG partners to understand that it is not just the link worker, the activity
also needs funding

10. from Melissa Smith to all participants:
thank you, will we get a replay of this talk?
from Paul Woodley to all participants:
The talk is recorded as is the chat so we will be sharing these after the event on
http://theedge.nhsiq.nhs.uk/edgetalks-september-8-radical-redesign-disruption-next-frontier-social-
prescribing/
from Sirinda Bhandal to all participants:
Really good webinar, thought provoking, thank you everyone
from Paul Woodley to all participants:
bev.taylor1@nhs.net
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
And remember community can be ( must be) hyperlocal!
from Paul Woodley to all participants:
socialprescribing@outlook.com
from Lauren Wiggins to all participants:
Thak tyou!
from Gemma Donnahey to all participants:
Thank you
from Beverley Johnson to all participants:
thanks all
from steven mcgovern to all participants:
Cheers for the talks great and thought provoking
from Lynne Bowers to all participants:
Thank you *hope*!
from Jackie Gillespie to all participants:
Thank you everyone-a lot of food for thought.
from Melissa Smith to all participants:
thank you!
from Melissa Smith to all participants:
Thank you!