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The Feedback on Feedback
And Possibly, other Weak Jokes
Wanda “Gwen” Zimmerman
Remember When?
 Before we were instructors, we were students (and yes, we
should continue to be students for life).
 Put yourself back on the other side of the desk for a minute
and reflect on being a student. Ah, the anticipation of
getting a paper back from the professor! It was both
delicious anticipation (did I do well?) and anticipation
wrought with dread (maybe I did not do so well).
 Then, when the paper was in your hands and you peeked at
the last page to find . . . a grade, and nothing but a grade,
what was your reaction?
 Mine was disappointment. Even if the grade were an “A,” I
wanted to know WHY I did well.
 Our students are no different: whether they do well or not so
well, they need and appreciate clear, substantive feedback
that recognizes their strengths and gives suggestions for
improvement in problem areas.
Elements of Feedback
 SNHU requires certain elements to be present in feedback,
but these are not only the domain of SNHU: other schools
have the same types of elements.
 Feedback should include:
 Specified rubrics
 Personalized comments/specific to the student
 Feedback should be constructive and couched in positive
terms
 Best practices also include:
 In-line comments where possible
 Comments on the rubric
 Substantive summative comments
And at SNHU
 When we grade, we need to take the presences on the IPR into
consideration: Personal, Instructional, and Intellectual.
 Personal: Overwhelmingly, the tone of instructors is encouraging.
This presence also calls for “Applies strategies to develop
individualized connections with students,” and this means letting
students know what they did well and areas for improvement.
 Instructional: Giving detailed and relevant feedback that addresses
each element of the rubric.
 Intellectual: Applying professional experience and/or expounding on
information and knowledge in the course. In literature course,
“professional” knowledge IS experience! In creative writing
courses, publishing experience and other aspects can be given.
 I find that the last presence is often the most difficult to meet, and I
always ask “How beneficial is the feedback to the students?” That is
the most important issue.
Rubrics
 Without exception, rubrics that are provided for any
assignment must be utilized. This means not only using
the criteria to grade the assignment, but posting the
scores for the students.
 Most courses now have embedded rubrics, and they are
great (though sometimes very detailed).
 Again, best practice is writing comments directly on the
rubric.
Embedded Rubrics
Making comments directly
on the rubric allow the
student to see the “bigger”
picture of how the
comment relates to the
criterion. If the comments
are present, a short
summative comment can
be added but need not be
in depth.
Personalized
 Comments should be specific to the student; while comment banks
can be used, they need to be customized for each student, not the
same copied and pasted comment. When grading some assignments,
i.e. discussions, the urge to copy and paste can be almost
overwhelming as the same advice applies to many students. Resist!
Mention a specific from the student’s post, letting him/her know that
you “really” read it.
 Remember! All assignments need feedback in the grading area.
Although replying to student posts in discussions might seem like
enough feedback, summative comments are needed.
 While copying and pasting comments does not seem like a “big”
issue, I once received a note from a student thanking me for not
giving “cookie cutter” comments. The appreciation might not always
be expressed, but students notice such elements.
 Again, make a specific notation about the work, and address the
student by name.
In-Line Comments
 In-line comments are, of course, comments made on the
body of the text via Crocodoc or downloading the work.
They note strengths and refer to problems in mechanics
(spelling, grammar, etc.) or problem areas that need
revising or clarification.
 Papers may also be downloaded and comments made
using Tracking Changes or bubble comments in the right
margin using Word. (If using Tracking Changes, change
the font from red to blue or another color—explanation
coming later). Papers are then uploaded.
 Refer students to the mode used, i.e. “Please read
comments on the uploaded file.”
Summative Comments
 Summative comments do just that: sum “it” up! Recap
the strengths and note areas for improvement.
 These comments can be in depth or brief depending on
how in depth the in-line or rubric comments are. If the
latter are comprehensive, give a few last words of
wisdom and ask students to peruse the in-line
comments. This applies to rubrics, as well, if comments
are made in the rubric cells.
Gimme a Constructive Criticism
Sammich!
 One technique of noting strengths and
advising on areas for improvement is to
layer or “sandwich” the summative
feedback.
 First, note an area in which the student did
well. Sometimes, this is difficult! If
nothing else, thank the student for
submitting the assignment.
 Second, discuss areas for improvement;
ALWAYS give suggestions and advice on
how to improve. Noting that something is
done incorrectly without offering help is of
no benefit to the student. Another
technique is to ask the student how he/she
can fix the problem.
 End with another strength.
Sandwich Example for Creative
Writing
 Maria, thank you for submitting this assignment on time.
The characters are very believable, and the readers are
drawn into their lives. The readers can relate to their
actions and empathize with their problems because they
are “real life” experiences. At times, the dialog is a bit
stilted; given Ben’s character, would he really say, “My
dear Jane, circumstances have reached a pitch in the
world of mundane reality, necessitating changes on the
linear plane”? Given his relaxed personality, how would
he speak? Make sure the words fit the status of the
characters. The ending is poignant and fitting [say why
it is poignant and fitting]. Please read the in-line
comments for more details.
A Sandwich for a Lit Paper
 George, the analysis of Montresor’s character in “The
Cask of Amontillado” is spot on. As stated, the reader
never has a clear idea of why Montresor is so upset with
Fortunato, and this is clearly a case of revenge fueled by
insanity. The essay misses an opportunity to discuss
ironic foreshadowing in the incident with the trowel and
the reference to mason vs. Mason: the importance of the
trowel is not understood until M. bricks F. into the wall.
However, the symbolism of the fool’s garb is aptly
explained in light of F’s. foolishness in falling for M’s.
compliments and reverse psychology.
Pronouns: Bleeding Papers and
Red Ink
 When I was in grad school, the director of freshman composition
instructed us to not use red ink when grading papers (they were
all paper copies back then). The rationale was that red ink
made the paper appear to “bleed.”
 I internally rolled my eyes thinking, oh, come on, are student
psyches really that tender? But in my first semester of teaching
at a local community college, a student said to me, “Thank you
for not using red ink—it always makes my paper look as if it
were bleeding.” It was not the paper that truly “bled,” but the
symbolism of the red ink to the student who closely identifies
with his/her work.
 Corny line: the work and the writer are one.
 Lesson learned, but a later lesson also concerned the tender
psyches of students: limit the use of pronouns in giving
feedback, and for several reasons. Just as red ink can make the
paper bleed, pronouns can infer aspects that we, as instructors,
might not take into consideration; these aspects can affect the
outlook of student self-perception and their perceptions of us.
The Seemingly Innocuous “You”
 Because students cannot always separate constructive criticism
concerning papers from personal criticism, refer to the
story/essay instead of using ”you.”
 Example:
 “You need to fix the introduction because the readers can be
easily confused by so many characters named at once,” vs.
“The introduction can confuse the readers because too many
characters are introduced at once.”
 Example:
 “You need to edit and revise the entire story,” vs. “The story
needs close editing and much revision.”
 The focus is taken away from the author to the work, but the
intent is the same. Although the students know that they are
responsible for making the changes, inatead of repeatedly
reading, “You need to” or “You should,” referring to the work is
less defeating.
“I” Think we Should not use “I”
 Yes, we ARE the experts, but using “I” can denote personal
preference. Giving specific, concrete feedback can avoid the
insinuation of personal likes or dislikes. Also avoid vagaries and
empty descriptors.
 I have often seen instructors comment, “I like the way that the
characters are developed/the way the ending is written/the
flow of the story.” Finis. The student might feel validated, but
this does not explain how the characters are effectively drawn,
etc. Using specific language and omitting “I” can be of more
use, i.e. “The characters are believable because . . .” Writing,
“The screenplay is rolling right along” does not allow the
student to understand why transitions are effective or why the
script is coherent.
 Writing, “I think/in my opinion/I believe” can give the student
room to also think, and the thought might be: “If that is what
YOU think, does it mean that is what all readers will think?”
Even writing “I recommend” is tricky! If it is “just” a
recommendation, should the student employ it? Stressing how
the work will be improved will give a clear reasoning. When I
used “I like,” I meant that I liked the way the writer employed
a certain technique, but without explanation, it just seemed a
personal preference.
Ask Questions
 Socrates did get several things right, and his method of
asking questions is still an effective method. Asking
students how they might improve their work gives them
ownership of their work. Giving suggestions or even
examples for how a passage, etc., can be improved is often
appropriate, but querying the writer can be more effective.
 For example, if I write, “The introduction can confuse the
readers because too many characters are introduced at
once,” I will add, “How can you pace the introduction of the
characters? What would be a more effective tactic?” Or if a
sentence is not clear due to syntax or word choice, ask
“How can this sentence be rewritten for clarity?”
Options
 Consider different modes of giving feedback! While in-
line comments and the rubrics do not easily lend
themselves to various modes, summative comments
can.
 Voice comments can be recorded and uploaded.
 Video comments would be superb, but the process of
making them and uploading them would be long and
even laborious. Taking the time and effort to do so
would surpass expectations of instructors!
Some Gentle Reminders
 Always be willing to discuss feedback and/or a grade
with a student. Again, put yourself on their side of the
desk: how did or how would you feel if a professor
refused to listen to you? Or, almost as bad, heard but
not listened to what you had to say or questions you
asked?
 Outreach! Sometimes, small efforts on our part can
make a huge difference to a student.
The End
 We expect our students to meet the
guidelines and criteria set for
assignments; as such, we must set
the same standards for ourselves.
 We teach for various reasons, but
the ultimate reason is the student!
Giving our best to them and helping
them succeed is our goal.
 If you would like a copy of this PPT,
examples of feedback or have
questions, tips, and suggestions, let
me know!
w.zimmerman1@snhu.edu

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The feedback on feedback and other weak jokes

  • 1. The Feedback on Feedback And Possibly, other Weak Jokes Wanda “Gwen” Zimmerman
  • 2. Remember When?  Before we were instructors, we were students (and yes, we should continue to be students for life).  Put yourself back on the other side of the desk for a minute and reflect on being a student. Ah, the anticipation of getting a paper back from the professor! It was both delicious anticipation (did I do well?) and anticipation wrought with dread (maybe I did not do so well).  Then, when the paper was in your hands and you peeked at the last page to find . . . a grade, and nothing but a grade, what was your reaction?  Mine was disappointment. Even if the grade were an “A,” I wanted to know WHY I did well.  Our students are no different: whether they do well or not so well, they need and appreciate clear, substantive feedback that recognizes their strengths and gives suggestions for improvement in problem areas.
  • 3. Elements of Feedback  SNHU requires certain elements to be present in feedback, but these are not only the domain of SNHU: other schools have the same types of elements.  Feedback should include:  Specified rubrics  Personalized comments/specific to the student  Feedback should be constructive and couched in positive terms  Best practices also include:  In-line comments where possible  Comments on the rubric  Substantive summative comments
  • 4. And at SNHU  When we grade, we need to take the presences on the IPR into consideration: Personal, Instructional, and Intellectual.  Personal: Overwhelmingly, the tone of instructors is encouraging. This presence also calls for “Applies strategies to develop individualized connections with students,” and this means letting students know what they did well and areas for improvement.  Instructional: Giving detailed and relevant feedback that addresses each element of the rubric.  Intellectual: Applying professional experience and/or expounding on information and knowledge in the course. In literature course, “professional” knowledge IS experience! In creative writing courses, publishing experience and other aspects can be given.  I find that the last presence is often the most difficult to meet, and I always ask “How beneficial is the feedback to the students?” That is the most important issue.
  • 5. Rubrics  Without exception, rubrics that are provided for any assignment must be utilized. This means not only using the criteria to grade the assignment, but posting the scores for the students.  Most courses now have embedded rubrics, and they are great (though sometimes very detailed).  Again, best practice is writing comments directly on the rubric.
  • 6. Embedded Rubrics Making comments directly on the rubric allow the student to see the “bigger” picture of how the comment relates to the criterion. If the comments are present, a short summative comment can be added but need not be in depth.
  • 7. Personalized  Comments should be specific to the student; while comment banks can be used, they need to be customized for each student, not the same copied and pasted comment. When grading some assignments, i.e. discussions, the urge to copy and paste can be almost overwhelming as the same advice applies to many students. Resist! Mention a specific from the student’s post, letting him/her know that you “really” read it.  Remember! All assignments need feedback in the grading area. Although replying to student posts in discussions might seem like enough feedback, summative comments are needed.  While copying and pasting comments does not seem like a “big” issue, I once received a note from a student thanking me for not giving “cookie cutter” comments. The appreciation might not always be expressed, but students notice such elements.  Again, make a specific notation about the work, and address the student by name.
  • 8. In-Line Comments  In-line comments are, of course, comments made on the body of the text via Crocodoc or downloading the work. They note strengths and refer to problems in mechanics (spelling, grammar, etc.) or problem areas that need revising or clarification.  Papers may also be downloaded and comments made using Tracking Changes or bubble comments in the right margin using Word. (If using Tracking Changes, change the font from red to blue or another color—explanation coming later). Papers are then uploaded.  Refer students to the mode used, i.e. “Please read comments on the uploaded file.”
  • 9. Summative Comments  Summative comments do just that: sum “it” up! Recap the strengths and note areas for improvement.  These comments can be in depth or brief depending on how in depth the in-line or rubric comments are. If the latter are comprehensive, give a few last words of wisdom and ask students to peruse the in-line comments. This applies to rubrics, as well, if comments are made in the rubric cells.
  • 10. Gimme a Constructive Criticism Sammich!  One technique of noting strengths and advising on areas for improvement is to layer or “sandwich” the summative feedback.  First, note an area in which the student did well. Sometimes, this is difficult! If nothing else, thank the student for submitting the assignment.  Second, discuss areas for improvement; ALWAYS give suggestions and advice on how to improve. Noting that something is done incorrectly without offering help is of no benefit to the student. Another technique is to ask the student how he/she can fix the problem.  End with another strength.
  • 11. Sandwich Example for Creative Writing  Maria, thank you for submitting this assignment on time. The characters are very believable, and the readers are drawn into their lives. The readers can relate to their actions and empathize with their problems because they are “real life” experiences. At times, the dialog is a bit stilted; given Ben’s character, would he really say, “My dear Jane, circumstances have reached a pitch in the world of mundane reality, necessitating changes on the linear plane”? Given his relaxed personality, how would he speak? Make sure the words fit the status of the characters. The ending is poignant and fitting [say why it is poignant and fitting]. Please read the in-line comments for more details.
  • 12. A Sandwich for a Lit Paper  George, the analysis of Montresor’s character in “The Cask of Amontillado” is spot on. As stated, the reader never has a clear idea of why Montresor is so upset with Fortunato, and this is clearly a case of revenge fueled by insanity. The essay misses an opportunity to discuss ironic foreshadowing in the incident with the trowel and the reference to mason vs. Mason: the importance of the trowel is not understood until M. bricks F. into the wall. However, the symbolism of the fool’s garb is aptly explained in light of F’s. foolishness in falling for M’s. compliments and reverse psychology.
  • 13. Pronouns: Bleeding Papers and Red Ink  When I was in grad school, the director of freshman composition instructed us to not use red ink when grading papers (they were all paper copies back then). The rationale was that red ink made the paper appear to “bleed.”  I internally rolled my eyes thinking, oh, come on, are student psyches really that tender? But in my first semester of teaching at a local community college, a student said to me, “Thank you for not using red ink—it always makes my paper look as if it were bleeding.” It was not the paper that truly “bled,” but the symbolism of the red ink to the student who closely identifies with his/her work.  Corny line: the work and the writer are one.  Lesson learned, but a later lesson also concerned the tender psyches of students: limit the use of pronouns in giving feedback, and for several reasons. Just as red ink can make the paper bleed, pronouns can infer aspects that we, as instructors, might not take into consideration; these aspects can affect the outlook of student self-perception and their perceptions of us.
  • 14. The Seemingly Innocuous “You”  Because students cannot always separate constructive criticism concerning papers from personal criticism, refer to the story/essay instead of using ”you.”  Example:  “You need to fix the introduction because the readers can be easily confused by so many characters named at once,” vs. “The introduction can confuse the readers because too many characters are introduced at once.”  Example:  “You need to edit and revise the entire story,” vs. “The story needs close editing and much revision.”  The focus is taken away from the author to the work, but the intent is the same. Although the students know that they are responsible for making the changes, inatead of repeatedly reading, “You need to” or “You should,” referring to the work is less defeating.
  • 15. “I” Think we Should not use “I”  Yes, we ARE the experts, but using “I” can denote personal preference. Giving specific, concrete feedback can avoid the insinuation of personal likes or dislikes. Also avoid vagaries and empty descriptors.  I have often seen instructors comment, “I like the way that the characters are developed/the way the ending is written/the flow of the story.” Finis. The student might feel validated, but this does not explain how the characters are effectively drawn, etc. Using specific language and omitting “I” can be of more use, i.e. “The characters are believable because . . .” Writing, “The screenplay is rolling right along” does not allow the student to understand why transitions are effective or why the script is coherent.  Writing, “I think/in my opinion/I believe” can give the student room to also think, and the thought might be: “If that is what YOU think, does it mean that is what all readers will think?” Even writing “I recommend” is tricky! If it is “just” a recommendation, should the student employ it? Stressing how the work will be improved will give a clear reasoning. When I used “I like,” I meant that I liked the way the writer employed a certain technique, but without explanation, it just seemed a personal preference.
  • 16. Ask Questions  Socrates did get several things right, and his method of asking questions is still an effective method. Asking students how they might improve their work gives them ownership of their work. Giving suggestions or even examples for how a passage, etc., can be improved is often appropriate, but querying the writer can be more effective.  For example, if I write, “The introduction can confuse the readers because too many characters are introduced at once,” I will add, “How can you pace the introduction of the characters? What would be a more effective tactic?” Or if a sentence is not clear due to syntax or word choice, ask “How can this sentence be rewritten for clarity?”
  • 17. Options  Consider different modes of giving feedback! While in- line comments and the rubrics do not easily lend themselves to various modes, summative comments can.  Voice comments can be recorded and uploaded.  Video comments would be superb, but the process of making them and uploading them would be long and even laborious. Taking the time and effort to do so would surpass expectations of instructors!
  • 18. Some Gentle Reminders  Always be willing to discuss feedback and/or a grade with a student. Again, put yourself on their side of the desk: how did or how would you feel if a professor refused to listen to you? Or, almost as bad, heard but not listened to what you had to say or questions you asked?  Outreach! Sometimes, small efforts on our part can make a huge difference to a student.
  • 19. The End  We expect our students to meet the guidelines and criteria set for assignments; as such, we must set the same standards for ourselves.  We teach for various reasons, but the ultimate reason is the student! Giving our best to them and helping them succeed is our goal.  If you would like a copy of this PPT, examples of feedback or have questions, tips, and suggestions, let me know! w.zimmerman1@snhu.edu