Joanne shares about her career journey from starting as an assistant to becoming partner at her firm. She faced challenges as the only female newcomer but persisted through rejections. A defining moment was realizing she needed to make herself visible. Her supportive sponsor helped her work part-time while becoming a mother, believing she could still advance with his support even if the firm's norms said otherwise. Her dream initially was to be a police officer but she found fulfilling work in auditing diverse people and motivating positive change.

1. In her shoes
Interview
By
become
realised
And what brought me further in
evident
a year
like
someone says no to me, I hang in there and
did accept when some
that’s
And the se
hadn’t stoo
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working 70%
caused me sleepless night
sponsor manage
work part
remains that
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Well, not always
D
you choose to become something else?
When I was
and
presentation where we were
education
attended it
why not
What I like
motivate people to do so
It
mean
In her shoes
Interview
By Natalie Widmer
become a senior
realised that
And what brought me further in
evident when I was
a year because of German.
like 13 times! But I
someone says no to me, I hang in there and
did accept when some
that’s your opinion, but I do
And the second thing:
hadn’t stood
child, foreigner
other words,
though he knew
working 70%
caused me sleepless night
sponsor manage
work part-time, but
remains that
Do you still think
Well, not always
Did you always want to become what you are today, or what
you choose to become something else?
When I was younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they did
and excellent
presentation where we were
education – s
attended it. T
why not become an
What I like in my job
motivate people to do so
It’s not necessarily working with numbers
mean is that
In her shoes
Interview with Joanne Burgener
Natalie Widmer
enior, then I want to be
I had to make myself visible. This was a light bulb moment.
And what brought me further in
when I was at school
because of German.
13 times! But I remained
someone says no to me, I hang in there and
did accept when someone
your opinion, but I do
cond thing: I had a very
up for me, I
, foreigner. Back then,
this is a lifetime
though he knew that I do not
working 70% – only to be
caused me sleepless night
sponsor managed to have
time, but at least at an
I still work only
think that’s possible?
Well, not always – but it is possible. I do
id you always want to become what you are today, or what
you choose to become something else?
younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they did
excellent at school –
presentation where we were
so not really ideal
They painted
become an auditor
in my job is collaborating
motivate people to do something they do
not necessarily working with numbers
you have to know the key
In her shoes
with Joanne Burgener
Hi Joanne, thanks a lot for your time and for
to this interview. I
and discovered
work part
what brought you further in your career? And who or
what supported you
When I look back to whe
that I was the only
guy who was very direct and communicated clearly that
he wanted
somehow it dawned
but perhaps one card short of a full deck
hen I want to become a
to make myself visible. This was a light bulb moment.
And what brought me further in my career
school – I must admit that I was
because of German. Then at college, I was
remained persistent
someone says no to me, I hang in there and
one failed to agree
your opinion, but I don’t agree with it
I had a very supporting
up for me, I wouldn’t have
. Back then, there was an
a lifetime 24/7 job
that I do not fit into that square box
only to be told that, if you want
caused me sleepless nights. I ultimately
have the Management
at least at an 80%
only 3 days at
possible?
but it is possible. I do
id you always want to become what you are today, or what
you choose to become something else?
younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they did
things I was not.
presentation where we were told that around 80%
really ideal. And next door, there was
painted a nice picture of the job and I thought “
auditor?” Then you start work and
collaborating
mething they do
not necessarily working with numbers
you have to know the key
In her shoes
with Joanne Burgener
Hi Joanne, thanks a lot for your time and for
this interview. I checked your background briefly
discovered that you
work part-time and hav
what brought you further in your career? And who or
what supported you along the way
When I look back to whe
I was the only female newcomer
who was very direct and communicated clearly that
ed to become a senior/partner very soon. And
somehow it dawned on
perhaps one card short of a full deck
come a senior too
to make myself visible. This was a light bulb moment.
my career were two things
must admit that I was
at college, I was really
persistent and didn’t
someone says no to me, I hang in there and keep try
agree with what I was saying. But today, my reaction is more
with it.
supporting sponsor. At th
wouldn’t have managed to make
there was an unofficial
job and you do
fit into that square box
that, if you want to become
ultimately decided not to
Management rethink this
80% rate. My sponsor
at 80%. And with his belief
but it is possible. I don’t want to
id you always want to become what you are today, or what
you choose to become something else?
younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they did
things I was not. Then I wanted to become
told that around 80%
. And next door, there was
a nice picture of the job and I thought “
hen you start work and
with a lot of different
mething they don’t particularly
not necessarily working with numbers that makes my job exciting
you have to know the key elements, but not in
with Joanne Burgener
Hi Joanne, thanks a lot for your time and for
checked your background briefly
that you were named
time and have kids. Could you please tell us
what brought you further in your career? And who or
along the way
When I look back to when I started as
female newcomer
who was very direct and communicated clearly that
to become a senior/partner very soon. And
on me: If this person, who was loud
perhaps one card short of a full deck
senior too! It awakened a
to make myself visible. This was a light bulb moment.
were two things: One thin
must admit that I wasn’t the most avid student
really bad at getting my act together:
n’t give up, something
trying until they say “
what I was saying. But today, my reaction is more
sponsor. At the
d to make it. Imagine:
unofficial maxim: “You do not becom
don’t do it part
fit into that square box. When I was in the nomination round
to become partner
decided not to go that route
rethink this norm. Well, they
sponsor and I agreed that even if we
. And with his belief
want to imply a perfect world where everything is possible.
id you always want to become what you are today, or what
younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they did
hen I wanted to become
told that around 80% of the graduates are
. And next door, there was this audit presenta
a nice picture of the job and I thought “
hen you start work and, 25 years later, you
of different people.
particularly like –
that makes my job exciting
, but not in every detail.
with Joanne Burgener
Hi Joanne, thanks a lot for your time and for
checked your background briefly
were named partner
Could you please tell us
what brought you further in your career? And who or
along the way?
I started as assistant
female newcomer. There was this tall
who was very direct and communicated clearly that
to become a senior/partner very soon. And
this person, who was loud
perhaps one card short of a full deck, wants to
It awakened a kind of competiti
to make myself visible. This was a light bulb moment.
One thing was persistence
n’t the most avid student
at getting my act together:
something I still
until they say “OK, we did it”. Maybe at
what I was saying. But today, my reaction is more
time, I didn’t
it. Imagine: part
ou do not becom
part-time. But my sponsor
hen I was in the nomination round
artner, you have to
go that route and instead
. Well, they actually
and I agreed that even if we
. And with his belief in me and his support
a perfect world where everything is possible.
id you always want to become what you are today, or what was your dream job as a child?
younger I wanted to become a police officer. But they didn’t take me because you had
hen I wanted to become a youth medic
graduates are unemployed after finishing t
audit presenta
a nice picture of the job and I thought “Well, you have to do something
25 years later, you’re
people. The interesting
– similar to motivating someone to do the chores.
that makes my job exciting, as I
every detail.
agreeing
checked your background briefly
artner in 2003,
Could you please tell us
what brought you further in your career? And who or
ssistant, I recall
here was this tall
who was very direct and communicated clearly that
to become a senior/partner very soon. And
this person, who was loud
wants to
kind of competitive spirit
g was persistence
n’t the most avid student. In high school, I
at getting my act together:
still try to do to this very day
, we did it”. Maybe at
what I was saying. But today, my reaction is more
n’t realise that
part-time, pregnant with my second
ou do not become a partner
my sponsor still
hen I was in the nomination round
you have to work full
instead look for another job. But my
actually agree
and I agreed that even if we do
and his support,
a perfect world where everything is possible.
was your dream job as a child?
take me because you had
youth medical nurse. I was at
unemployed after finishing t
audit presentation and out of
you have to do something
’re still working in the same field.
he interesting part
similar to motivating someone to do the chores.
, as I’m not really good
ve spirit in me and I
g was persistence, something that bec
In high school, I had to repeat
I had to retry
to this very day
, we did it”. Maybe at an
what I was saying. But today, my reaction is more like
that. But if my sponsor
time, pregnant with my second
artner, you are a
still supported me
hen I was in the nomination round for partner
ull-time. This information
look for another job. But my
agreed that it is possible
don’t tell anybody,
, I’ve manage
a perfect world where everything is possible.
was your dream job as a child? And why did
take me because you had to be
nurse. I was at
unemployed after finishing t
out of sheer boredom I
you have to do something anyway
still working in the same field.
part is that you have to
similar to motivating someone to do the chores.
not really good at maths
in me and I
something that became
had to repeat
retry something
to this very day: When
earlier age I
like: Well,
. But if my sponsor
time, pregnant with my second
a partner”. In
ed me even
partner, I was
. This information
look for another job. But my
possible to
tell anybody, the fact
managed it.
a perfect world where everything is possible.
And why did
to be athletic
nurse. I was at a
unemployed after finishing their
boredom I
nyway, so
still working in the same field.
you have to
similar to motivating someone to do the chores.
at maths. What I
ame
had to repeat
something
earlier age I
In
. This information
the fact
athletic
similar to motivating someone to do the chores.

2. Did you ever get the feeling that you’re being treated differently, simply because you’re a woman?
In all honesty, I do believe I had some advantages. Back then, I was the only woman at manager level. No, not
true, there were more. But I was the only foreign women at that level and you were treated like one: you got a
seat at the middle of the table; clients were pleased having a woman in the team; generally I was treated more
genteelly. And as a foreigner I got away with a lot of things, e.g. I could speak to other on a first-name basis.
This made things easier. But sometimes for certain clients I was not asked join in – even today. For some Swiss
clients, being a woman and a foreigner is just too much.
At events, it was also occasionally an advantage to be a woman. As there were not so many women in
attendance, people tended to know me by name.
Career-wise, I got a lot of support from my sponsor. So perhaps it’s also thanks to him that I rarely if ever
experienced any negative treatment.
One disadvantage may be that it was difficult to gain access to men’s clubs. The guys were always talking about
male topics such as cars and I was not interested in that. This may be a bit threatening at the beginning because
you’re in the minority. And it felt a bit like a disadvantage; but I’m not sure whether this is in fact a
disadvantage.
How did you react to or counter such situations?
Well, at the beginning I often didn’t do “guy type of things” like going to the bar after a workshop. But then I
realised, hey, it might be a good idea to take part. However, staying authentic and talking about your own
interests took a bit of courage. Over the years, this became easier. But also today, sometimes I just don’t feel like
going with the flow. And that’s perfectly fine; you don’t have to be part of everything.
What’s important to be a good and authentic leader?
Life experience, knowing your own strengths and weaknesses, not trying to please everyone – of course less-
experienced people also possess that ability. When I was younger, though, this seemed difficult; I wanted to
please everyone. But maybes that’s just a “girl type of thing”.
In your opinion, is there something like a typical male or female leadership style? If yes, how would you
describe it?
Well, at an earlier stage I was convinced it exists – something like a typical male and female leadership style.
But today, I believe leaders are persons who are energised, with whom you like to be with because you feel
trusted and know that you’re in good hands; because you feel you can learn from that person and are being
brought further – even out your comfort zone, you’re still being supported. This is something great, having the
opportunity to work with such people. And it’s also very generous and cannot be taken for granted. When it
comes to leadership style, the old-school, autocratic, patriarchal leadership approach has gone the way of the
dinosaurs. Situational leadership styles, where people adapt their style to specific circumstances, are what bring
you further and, in my opinion, represent the success model for the future. Not one-size-fits-all.
How do you handle personal failure?
Well, a lot of things turned out to be flops. My CV reveals 13 scholastic repetitions. And I failed to pass German.
But also when I had to prove myself for the partner case, such past situations pushed me to give even more.
This triggered a certain desire for recognition. Sometimes even to the point of until zeal.
One example of this was when someone else was assigned the role for Diversity leader before me. I was really
frustrated. I thought, now the door is closed; and I gave up – for once, I didn’t persist. At the same time, I was
undergoing the 5-year assessment, where you work a lot on your personality. This course was originally for men
only. I was then asked: “Why are so frustrated and angry towards men?” Oops. I suddenly realised that this was
actually true; I just hadn’t picked up on that fact and didn’t know why. Only after having heard this from the
instructors was I able to let it go and change it. And then 3 years later, the Diversity leader left the company and
I was offered the position. This showed me, it had to be like this. With this suppressed anger and frustration, I
would not have been able to fulfil this role in a successful way.
These are situations where you sometimes don’t understand why things didn’t work out and you’re frustrated as
a result. But at a later stage, you have to admit that the time was just not right. You had to take a detour.

3. What is your personal maxim in life? How do you personify it in your daily life?
If I do something, I do it right.
In my daily life, I have a lot of duties and responsibilities. And if I decide to do something, I need to be present
and take the time and do it right. But the more we do, the more difficult it becomes: and that’s our own fault.
We take so much on our shoulders and just let the wheels turn. But we need to slow down sometimes. In all
honesty, I haven’t found the secret recipe yet. However, nothing is worse for clients or employees than giving
them the feeling that you’ve been squeezed in between two other meetings and are mentally not present.
You need to be on your toes, conscious and attentive. Maybe this will become my new maxim in life .
I think this is very important, and honestly I often struggle with that. Outstanding leaders and inspiring
persons possess this great ability: to be in the here–and-now and also convey that sense to the person
opposite you. I have the luck of working with such persons. And it sometimes frustrates me to realise that my
skillset still comes up somewhat short in that regard.
But what keeps you from adding that to your toolbox?
Maybe it’s the feeling of being on autopilot, not able to decide when to do what, yet obliged to attend some
meetings where you don’t want to be? Equally spoken, maybe it’s just the inner unrest that comes from having
a lot on the table. But honestly I don’t know; there is no excuse.
It takes courage to say no to things you don’t want to do or when you see no reason behind the exercise. And
also to accept the discussion that may arise after you’ve said no or dare to question certain decisions. But this
takes time.
What was the most important advice you have received in your career and you would like to share with us?
It’s difficult to say, because you have to do gain own experiences. And this makes human beings more
interesting. Ultimately, you become wiser. But that’s also the nice part; imagine not being allowed to make any
mistakes and ending up with nothing else than your own life experiences and intellectual belongings packed in
a box.
I think persistence and courage are useful traits, but they’re not the only things that help. It took time for me to
realise that I’m not alone; I don’t have to fight by myself. Trying to do it all on your own is a Sisyphean exercise,
so go and look for a sponsor and talk about your success.
Joanne, thanks a lot for your time and the very inspiring and interesting discussion. What I will take away
with me are two things:
What’s needed is persistence and one shouldn’t give up too early. Being frustrated is okay, but not for too long
and not if it keeps you from taking the next steps. Everything has its meaning, and sometimes bit more time
passes before you realise this. Have the courage to question things and also the ability to say no. Don’t doubt
yourself; rather, ask yourself “Is it important for me?” If yes, it’s is absolutely worth taking that extra step.
And for me personally, a very important goal: I want to be attentive, on-my toes and focused.