Talking Transformation Podcast Episode Guide as @ May 2020

www.anchor.fm/talking-transformation-po @TalkingTransfo1
Find us…
“An open conversation addressing contemporary city building and
spatial transformation issues in South Africa.”
Episode Guides as @ May 2020

Find us via these platforms…
https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podcast/tal
king-transformation/id1472458399
https://open.spotify.com/show/1OKG8dGA
IVCsAmPBilmSsV
https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0
cHM6Ly9hbmNob3IuZm0vcy9iZTFlY2QwL
3BvZGNhc3QvcnNz
https://anchor.fm/talking-transformation-
po
https://www.breaker.audio/talking-
transformation
https://castbox.fm/channel/Talking-
Transformation-id2211735?country=us
“An open conversation addressing contemporary city building and
spatial transformation issues in South Africa.”

Episode 1: Revisiting the National
Development Plan – “The Buffalo
in the Room”
In this, our first episode, we talk to former National
Planning Commissioner Professor Philip Harrison.
Presently the Research Chair in Spatial Analysis and
City Planning (Wits University), Phil reflects on the
exciting period that led up to the publication of the
NDP and the strengths and challenges associated
with implementation.
His strong and grounded views will be of interest to
anyone who is interested in understanding how the
plan sought to eliminate poverty and reduce
inequality in South Africa by 2030. These
approaches included: drawing on the energies of its
people, growing an inclusive economy, building
capacity, and promoting leadership and
partnerships throughout society.
The interview reminds us that it’s not only the
spatial dimension that requires transforming: the
economy, health and education are all topics which
are reflected on here.
Send us feedback via @talkingtransfo1

Episode 2: Revisiting Jozi City’s
Corridors of Freedom Initiative
“Leveraging value from colours on the map”
In this second episode, we are privileged to talk
with former City of Johannesburg Executive
Director, Yondela Silimela about her experience
implementing the Corridors of Freedom spatial
restructuring initiative.
Yondela is an inspirational leader and built
environment professional. She has recently
taken up an executive position with the World
Bank and joined us from her new base in Paris.
She talks about the challenges and ingredients
for success in the Corridors initiative and lessons
learnt.
She also provides an interesting take on NIMBY-
ism, land value capture and tax increment
financing and the strengths and weaknesses of
these tools.
The episode reflects on the roles and skills both
hard and soft, required to make a difference in
the public and political realm. It makes for
compelling listening…

Episode 3:
“Pushing the Boundaries” –
the remarkable story of Port Elizabeth’s infill
housing successes
Beyond the theory, beyond the rhetoric...
This episode finds us in the Friendly City of Port Elizabeth.
Our guest Lance del Monte recounts his journey as one of
the pioneers of high density, mixed typology and infill,
susbsidised housing in South Africa. With support from
General Motors and the beneficiary communities he has
served, he has transformed the landscape of many parts of
the city and impacted directly on the lives of the
communities who live in the spaces he has imagined,
designed and executed.
This is a lengthy podcast and a deep dive into the practical
and ideological challenges and lessons learnt along the
way: from Missionvale to Walmer Link and beyond. Lance
and his team have taken the subsidised human settlement
grants and demonstrated pretty much the full array of IRDP,
social housing, FLISP housing typologies. Sectional title,
subsidised housing? Yes, they are busy with it…
Beyond this audio record Lance has kindly shared material
and literature which goes further into the principles and
design aspects. You can find pdfs of these user friendly and
information packed documents via our twitter feed. Put on
the coffee, start the car and settle in for a masterclass…
Recorded Friday 5th July 2019

Episode 4:
A tour of duty…and of service
Conflict resolution and addressing violence in
communities
Our special guest this episode takes us on a
very different and compellingly tour of duty and
service.
Jana El Horr - who was visiting South Africa and
the Western Cape - recounts her own story from
war torn Lebanon and Iraq to the US where she
is now based.
Her skills and talents, as both an economist and
peacemaker, are helping communities across
the globe come to terms with the aftermath of
conflict, violence and trauma.
In a month where troops have been deployed in
a number of communities in Cape Town to
combat violence and gang-related crime her
reflections on the process of transformation,
healing and community engagement are
timeous and moving.
Recorded Wednesday 17th July 2019

Episode 5:
#DreamingOfWakanda
Noble Aspiration or Pure Folly?
An Insider’s view
A month ago State President Ramaphosa announced
his ambition of a new city, connected to other cities
by a bullet train and led, by the 4th industrial, tech
revolution. Following this announcement via his state
of nation address, commentators have applauded and
scorned the ambition in equal measure.
This week I invited Dr Geci Karuri-Sebina to air her
views on the matter. Geci is one of the pre-eminent
commentators and observers on South African towns
and cities having worked for many years as an
associate at the South African Cities Network and
researcher with, amongst others, the CSIR and HSRC.
Her views are compelling, insightful and frank.
She offers not only observations on the new, hi-tech
city debate but also delivers a sobering assessment of
existing cities, institutional structures and the global
perspective she has cultivated during her professional
and personal life travelling the globe.
Recorded Thursday 18th July 2019

The Talking Transformation Podcast has been live for two weeks now…
Since then I’ve had an overwhelming positive response to the episodes and
personalities we’ve presented via the podcast platform.
Many thanks to each and everyone of you who has taken the time to listen and
engage and encourage.
This week will see us launch our fifth interview. It’s an insightful interview that
reflects on the State President’s recent State of the Nation Address and his stated
ambition of building a new city – if you’ve not had your head in the sand this,
you’d know has had a big reaction from many commentators, both positive and
negative. He also leaned heavily on the National Development Plan which we
covered in our first episode.
Beyond the episodes, our plan is to bring you a number of roundtable
on topics and themes that listeners have requested or that we think would be of
interest to the listeners. The land debate, Transit oriented development (TOD),
inclusionary housing and universal access – with a specific angle around people
living with disabilities are all issues we are keen to address in the coming weeks
and months.
I refer a lot to “we” and “us” in the podcast. Although so far, you’ve only heard
voice as the anchor and interviewer we hope that will change before long as
presenters step into this space. There are a number of us working behind the
scenes and hopefully you’ll hear the voices of others before long.
I also want to invite you to get more directly involved. If you are using the anchor
podcast platform, each episode has a voice message tool that allows you to leave
comments. This hasn’t yet been utilsed but I think this a direct and existing way
you to feel and get involved. Each month we will collate the comments and
broadcast them as part of this monthly bulletin.
You can also find us on twitter and where documents are discussed, like in the
with Lance del Monte I’ll be sure to leave the weblinks on that platform that will
allow you to go deeper in terms of the information at hand.
We’ve already had 120 downloads and the podcast has reached as far as North
Carolina in the USA to Hong Kong and the UK.
If you can, please spread the word throughout your network. The strength of
podcast is going to be in the diversity of views and the quality of the
When I first talked about putting the podcast together, about two months ago I
had three goals: Firstly, make it as good as I could – a distinct theme tune –
courtesy of tribalneed, and as good a sound quality as I could manage –
recognizing I have never recorded anything in my life! Secondly, to try and
a 100 people by the end of the year – we are at 120 within two weeks. And
to approach the professional registration bodes such as SACPLAN, UDISA and
others to seek their endorsement and support – particularly in respect of the
continuous professional development (CPD). I was delighted when the day after
the podcast went live on the anchor podcast platform to receive a call from the
CEO of SACPLAN, Martin Lewis who is keen to consider ways to use it for that
very purpose – so a longer-term ambition may be realised within a much
period than had been imagined.
This last week has seen the sad passing of two cultural icons, James Small and
Johnny Clegg. James Small was a sporting icon and winner of the Rugby World
Cup that in so many ways transformed the country in 1995. When I arrived in
country in 1994 he was the biggest sporting personality and poster boy across
every media publication and that was before he and his team defined history
following year at Ellis Park.
Johnny Clegg also sadly passed after a prolonged fight against cancer. Johnny
redefined for decades concepts of ubuntu, integration, racial and cultural
harmony. His music will continue to serve as a testimonial to his legacy and
for many, many decades. It will also serve as a reminder that even as individuals
we can partner and fight for what is right, good and proper in society.
And finally, we also celebrated Mandela Day, remembering Madiba in our
different ways by acts of giving and selflessness. As his wife Graca Machel
correctly reminded us this should be the default and not the exception.
Day” is a reminder that any one of us has the power to take initiative and drive
transformation.
"Let us not look at Mandela Day as an event that we will be part of every year.
need to look at it as a pledge for the whole year that goes beyond one's daily
activities. Decide what is the difference I can make to people over the year so
it can become a way of being, not just an event," Powerful words from someone
who continues to lead by example.
This bulletin episode of Talking Transformation Podcast is dedicated to the
memory of the three leaders and giants of South Africa. Hamba kahle Madiba,
James, Johnny. Recorded Sunday 21st July 2019
Talking Transformation July 2019 Bulletin:

Episode 6:
“Here Be Dragons..”:
The case for evidence based decision
making (and how to go about it…)
In today’s Talking Transformation Podcast we hear from
three very different planning personalities Eloise
Rousseau, Claus Rabe, and Jaco Petzer.
All share at least three things in common…
• They’re professional town planners by trade;
• They’ve worked together in the same metropolitan
planning team; and
• Each has had to consider alternative skills and
approaches to support their work.
In an era of “Big Data”, data science and coding
languages like Python, this three-part conversation
reflects on three personal journeys. It broadens the
scope and debate about the skills and techniques that
may prove useful in addressing complex and wicked
urban challenges facing communities and professionals
alike.
It’s a discussion about remaining relevant, useful and
functional within civil society and political spaces and
coming to terms with new technology and approaches
that are not necessarily taught at school / varsity.
This episode begins to expand horizons and considers
opportunities that some of us may not yet have begun
thinking about.
Recorded July 2019

Episode 7:
“Here to Stay”
Insight, reflection and lessons learnt from the Ratanang,
Siyanda and Marikana informal settlements
In July 2019 the Socio-Economic Research Institute
(SERI) published a series of research reports
reflecting on three informal settlements: Ratanang
in Klerksdorp, North West Province; Marikana in
Philippi, Cape Town, Western Cape; and Siyanda
in KwaMashu, eThekwini, KwaZulu-Natal.
Today’s Talking Transformation Podcast guest is
SERI Senior Research and Advocacy Associate
Lauren Royston who led the research team.
In this episode she summarises the approach and
main findings from SERI’s detailed research
(available via this link).
A development planner by trade, Lauren has been
a leading advocate on land and tenure issues in
South African and regionally for many years. She
has worked with number of different organisations
and recently co-authored “Untitled” a book
publication on urban and rural tenure security in
South Africa.
Her insight and reflections make for essential
listening for anyone engaging on issues of
informality, community dynamics and policy
formation.
Recorded August 12th 2019

Episode 8:
“The Original Sin”:
Unpacking the origins and findings of the Final
Report of the Presidential Advisory Panel on Land
Reform and Agriculture.
The issue of land reform in South Africa is arguably the most
politically charged issue facing the country, its citizens and
politicians charged with leading a transformation agenda.
In October 2018, President Ramaphosa stated “…Our nation is
focused on the effort to correct the original sin of land
dispossession”, a month after he appointed an expert advisory
panel on Land Reform and Agriculture.
Releasing the panel’s final report in July 2019, Chairperson Dr
Vuyokazi Mahlati suggested that:
“The urgency and Constitutional imperative of land reform in
South Africa can neither be taken lightly nor postponed.”
Today’s Talking Transformation Podcast guest is Professor Ruth
Hall, (Institute for Poverty, Land and Agrarian Studies, University
of the Western Cape), one of Dr Mahlati’s fellow panel members.
A distinguished expert in issues of agrarian reform she holds a
DPhil in Politics where she focused on the interests, actors and
discourses that influenced the development of South African land
reform policy.
In this episode she summarises the background to the report, a
number of its key findings and recommendations.
Her expert oversight and clarity of perspective provides an hour-
long, unmissable “master class”.
The content is topical, urgent and a must-listen for listeners who
have not yet considered the Panel’s issues and findings.
Recorded August 21st 2019

Episode 9:
“Trying to stop a tsunami…”:
Reflecting on the State’s efforts in support of public
transport and looking forward to the role of
technology in advancing mobility in cities.
Today we are looking at issues of mobility, public
transport and the role that technology can play in
meeting the increasing challenges of movement in and
around our towns and cities.
The South African mobility landscape sees an
estimated 15 million people dependent on minibus
taxis every day as their commute mode. Then there’s
the historic rail systems and “new wave” of bus routes –
typified by the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) infrastructure of
the metros that were introduced in support the FIFA
World Cup 2010.
Yolisa Kani is an experienced and highly respected
professional who has worked extensively within
metropolitan transport authorities and helped shape
the new wave mobility strategies. For the last four
years she has taken up an executive role with Uber -
arguably the leading tech-based disruptor in “e-
hailing” app based platform – as their Head of Policy.
Given these dual perspectives of public and private
sector, Yolisa is ideally placed to consider the efforts
made and opportunities available to address our urban
mobility challenges from both these perspectives. We
are indebted to her for making the time to speak to the
Talking Transformation podcast.
Recorded September 6th 2019

Episode 10:
#money4meerkats
Co-ordinating Complexity and
Prioritising Spatial and Socio-Economic
Needs
How the public sector spends its money is increasingly being
scrutinised by the public and private sectors alike.
Limited funds, flatlined economy, austerity: increasingly there’s a
need to do more with less and demonstrate tangible value for
money and impact within our communities
To achieve this, and to address the complexity and the variables
impacting on decision-making requires institutional co-ordination,
inter-disciplinary approaches and inter-governmental cooperation.
It means a collective effort with the limited funds at hand to achieve
the transformation of our landscapes, maximise service delivery and
maintain the economic foundations of the cities and country.
In this episode we talk to two of the three Directors of Novus3 -
James Scheepers and Bernard van Biljon. Together with Jaco de
Vries, they have a wealth of experience in developing methods and
tools to support decision-making, assist the technical and political
prioritisation processes and to demonstrate the spatial and socio-
economic impacts of public spending.
Their expertise and insights are derived from almost two decades of
service, understanding and developing approaches to support
these challenges. Their insights and approaches have served a
diversity of clients including the Development Finance Institutions
(DFIs), a number of Metros, National Departments and SOEs. Their
reflections in this interview offer the listener unique and
comprehensive perspectives on the scale and complexity of the
challenges and the means to address these issues.
Recorded Sept 18th 2019

Episode 11:
The Integration Syndicate - Conversations
and provocations designed to confront and
progress spatial transformation in Cape
Town
“It is a public secret that we have no practical idea how to undo
and remake the legacy of spatial inequality within the constraints
of private property, existing real estate market dynamics and
public policies that seem to exacerbate the problem, despite the
best intentions of the state.” - Integration Syndicate
In this episode of Talking Transformation we consider the work
and findings of the Integration Syndicate, an initiative that took
place in Cape Town under the auspices of the African Centre for
Cities (ACC).
Our guest, Professor Edgar Pieterse, the founding director the
ACC, reviews the method, approach and findings of the Syndicate
that sought to explore the obstacles and practical solutions to
social-spatial integration in the Cape Town metropolitan region.
The Syndicate's process and publication comes at a time when the
public voice of advocacy groups has exploded in addressing issues
of inequality and the slow speed of spatial and socio-economic
transformation – most publicly within the inner-city areas of Cape
Town. Professor Pieterse outlines why he believed it is a much
broader spatial issue and how it led him to frame a series of
propositions and provocations via the Syndicate.
Three strategic sites in Cape Town (Two Rivers Urban Park, Bellville
and Philippi) and each of the five “provocations” are considered
within this insightful episode. The content captures the essence of
the Talking Transformation Podcast.
The podcast comes shortly after the release of the Integration
Syndicate publication which is available as a free download as well
as for purchase.
Recorded Sept 20th 2019

Episode 12:
“4IR” - Decoding the Jargon and
Embracing the Future
In todays' episode we revisit a theme we've touched on in
previous episodes: “smart” / “digital” cities and the
implications of the fourth industrial revolution or “4IR” as
it has become known.
Listeners may recall that State President Ramaphosa
talked about this in this in his 2019 State the Nation
Address at Parliament a number of months ago. We
covered the new city element in some depth in TTPod
Episode 5.
The questions remain: if 4IR is the aspiration: How do we
do it? What does it require? And what are the
benchmarks and lesson learnt around the world that
might influence how we go about our business ?
We're joined by guests Associate Professor Nancy
Odendaal and Luke Boyle, both of whom are working
from the University of Cape Town. In this episode, they
take listeners through the concepts and the differences
and answer these questions. They also address some of
the limitations of these concepts. It makes for an
insightful and fascinating listen. We trust you enjoy!
Find the publications Luke has been working on via this
link (Report 1) and this link (Report 2)
Recorded October 9th 2019

Episode 13:
“It’s the [food] economy stupid!”
Planning for food security within our urban spaces
– What is it and how to do it?
“If planners are not conscious [of food issues], then their impact is
negative, not just neutral” (Pothukuchi & Kaufman, 2000).
With over 50% of South Africans estimated to be “food insecure” or
at risk of food insecurity this episode of Talking Transformation is a
timely wake-up call to all built environment activists and
practitioners. Urban food insecurity is becoming an increasingly
urgent issue. Yet some would argue it remains a lesser-understood,
“rural planning issue”.
This episode challenges directly this preconception and reminds us
that food security is less about the supply quantum of food as it is
access to [healthy and the variety of] food sources.
Taking its lead from Consuming Urban Poverty’s (CUP) project and a
recently released toolkit - “Incorporating food into Planning” the
episode hosts Robyn Park–Ross and Alison Pulker both of who have
researched the topic extensively. In Robyn’s case she contributed to
the CUP toolkit during her research work with the ACC and has
published research on urban food security focusing directly on the
informal trading associated with the Bellville transport interchange
precinct
What is food insecurity, where in the world has this been addressed
successfully and what is it we should be challenging in our daily
choices, policy-making and decision-taking? The episode takes us on
a continental journey: to Durban, Cape Town and Kisumu in Kenya,
Kitwe Zambia and Epworth in Zimbabwe.
All material referenced is available via the links embedded in the
digital flyer or via
https://consumingurbanpoverty.wordpress.com
Recorded 28th October 2019

During the last week of Sept the TTPOd has broken the 1000 listens
barriers.
At the time of recording we are past 1100 and listenership is up
around the globe and more particularly in our own back yard here
in SA.
Thanks to all of you who have contributed to the efforts and spread
the message.
In Sept we’ve enjoyed three new episodes and the voices across the
built environment: from the transport industry and the issue more
broadly of mobility in cities to the Transformation Syndicate work
here in Cape Town and the efforts towards aligning budgets and
resources to the spatial plans and priorities.
We hope you’ve enjoyed the conversations and still invite you to
contribute via the voice message function available via the Anchor
Podcast platform or the Twitter handle - @TalkingTransfo1
Looking to the future we are excited to announce a collaboration
with the Architvects, Planners, engineers and Surveyors society here
in Cape Town. We are working with the committee to host and
record a FutureCast and Year in Review episode.
The date set is 22nd Jan 2020 - a Wednesday evening. The venue:
the Cape Institute for Architects Number 71, Hout Street here in the
heart of the CBD.
* Barbara Southworth from GAPP architects
* Professor Francois Viruly from UCT
* Jodi Allemeier from PWC
* Elisabeth Varghese - a planning intern who will have concluded
a year’s internship at the City of Cape Town and last but not least
*Ashram Adam - CEO from Nelson Mandela Development
Corporation
We’ll also be inviting one of the active NGOs in the Cape Town
area to reflect on 2019 - a year in review, what was good , what
was bad and who or what inspired? Then we’ll flip things around
and look at the year - or at least the 11 months left of 2020 and
what we can expect.
More details will follow but as you can imagine we are absolutely
delighted to be trying something new and to have secured to
support of some of the most distinguished and youngest of the
professionals in town to reflect on the year in review and to think
ahead to the opportunities and challenges. We get to hear the
viewpoints of the academic, the seasoned pro, the new kid on the
block, the dreamer and the Agency CEO. And we’ll be sure to
secure the voice of the advocacy groups to make sure of a
rounded series of perspectives. It promises to be a fascinating
and unique platform.
Please spread the word and get ready for another content-rich
and insightful October from the Talking Transformation Podcast.
Talking Transformation October 2019 Bulletin:

Episode 14:
“Blockchains & Housing Ladders”
Reassessing the worth and asset realisation of
the affordable and gap housing sectors.
For most of us a house is the most significant asset we can own. This is
amplified for low income property-owning urban households where the
affordable housing market offers significant wealth creating potential for
beneficiary households. However, in this market the ability of
households’ to realise value from their housing assets is frequently and
significantly hampered by a number of challenges.
Some quick numbers!
• Affordable properties represent a substantial portion of the residential
property market in South Africa
• 60% of the 6.3 mill formal, registered properties were valued <R600k
• 35% were considered ‘entry level’ properties valued <R300k
• +/- 1.8 mill (30%) of registered properties are “RDP” properties.
In this episode we consider some of those challenges and what is
preventing households from realising the true value of their worth.
Our guests in this Talking Transformation Episode are Ilana Melzer
Engagement Manager at 71point4 and Kecia Rust Executive Director and
founder of the Centre for Affordable Housing Finance in Africa (CAHF).
Their insights and expertise of the South African housing markets and
more broadly, continental trends challenge many preconceptions of
value and worth of the housing products and asset value in these lower-
income households and communities. They also share their frustration
with the – at times –systemic challenges facing large numbers of these
households. You'll also get to hear how the Transaction Support Centre
in Khayelitsha, Cape Town came into being and some of the amazing
success and substantial challenges they’ve dealt with.
In a period of sustained flat-lined economic activity in the country, Illana
and Kecia argue with facts and anecdote that this a burgeoning
economic sector which is frequently misunderstood and often ignored.
It’s a Masterclass from tow of the leading practitioners on this key
housing issue. We trust you enjoy the episode.
Recorded 6th November 2019
Illana Melzer (71point4)Kecia Rust (CAHF)

Episode 15:
“Whose Line Is It Anyway?”
A brief history of the origins,
contestations and effectiveness of urban
/ growth boundaries in post 1994 South
Africa
Guest:
Dr. Anele Horn
Centre for Regional and Urban
Innovation and Statistical Exploration
(CRUISE)
Recorded 3rd December 2019
It’s estimated that between 1990 and 2015 South Africa’s population grew from
37 million to 54 million. Much of this growth located within towns and cities
driven by the economic and social opportunities afforded in these centres and
followed the global trend of mass urbanisation. Post-1994 many of the South
Africa’s towns and cities were – quite literally - bursting at the seams. Growth of
the formal and informal sectors have continued to push the limits of organic
and managed growth and infrastructure: the pipes, the roads, the public
transport and social amenities have been pushed to breaking point.
Concurrently, democratic planning conventions and policy have demanded
compact and integrated cities and spaces and spatial transformation that is
inclusive in terms of race and income and more efficient in terms of form and
function. These objectives and outcomes – the polar opposite of the apartheid
planning philosophy - were well defined in legislation in the Development
Facilitation Act, the foundation of reformed planning legislation and more
recently in the Spatial Planning and Land Use Management Act. Spatial
targeting in our municipalities: defining where resources should be deployed
and to maximise public spending and enable the private sector is an additional
concept supporting the growth of our urban centres.
Today we consider the genesis of some of growth management approaches
that have been introduced to meet these demands and directives. We consider
some of the tools that have been employed, and in particular urban edges and
growth boundaries. How did they come about, what led to their introduction
and how effective were they?
Dr. Anele Horn has dedicated much of her career to understanding the issues
of growth management. She has worked extensively within the metropolitan
spatial planning teams in both Johannesburg and Cape Town where she was
responsible for the conceptualisation and implementation of metropolitan
growth management policies. In 2018 she completed her PhD dissertation
investigating decision-making and the successes and failures of urban growth
management in Cape Town to inform the doctoral research. She is presently
based at the Centre for Regional and Urban Innovation and Statistical
Exploration (CRUISE) at the Department of Geography and Environmental
Studies, University of Stellenbosch and has researched and lectured there since
2011

Episode 16:
Exchanges From Down Under
Catching up and
Guests:
Marco Gerreto (left) and Tony
(right)
Recorded January 2020
In this first TTPod episode of 2020, we take a journey
“Down Under” and discuss challenges - new and old -
facing two built environment professionals who have
transferred skills and perspectives from South Africa to
Australia.
Tony Marks and Marco Geretto have proven track
records of excellence in South Africa supporting
dynamic development processes and initiatives. Both
have served within the public and private sector and
contributed to spatial targeting initiatives such as the
Voortrekker Road Integration Zones and land packaging
of public land (in Tony’s case) and informal settlement
upgrading guidelines and numerous urban design
initiatives in Marco’s.
Marco was one of the driving forces of the Open Streets
initiative in Cape Town and the designer of the TTPod
logo!).
We hear about (and travel on) public transport, property
markets driving rapid city building and economic
growth, the influence of international money and the
unintentional. We reflect on societal challenges issues of
homelessness and drug dependency and climate
change. There's plenty to reflect on and think about.
Consider this a "busman's holiday" for the podcast and a
warm welcome back to 2020.

2019 Review / 2020 “Futurecast” – 22nd
January 2020
“One Panel, One Audience, One Landmark Recorded Conversation”
Our most ambitious initiative yet! After four months of planning the Talking
Transformation Podcast, in collaboration with APES+ Society brings you the
inaugural “Talking Transformation FutureCast” episode.
In Cape Town’s Hout Street, on a warm summer’s evening, an enthusiastic and
engaged audience of 60 guests gather to listen to a diverse panel of built
environment practitioners. In the hour and a half that followed we reflected on
“2019: the year that was” and then looked ahead to the rest of 2020 and next
decade.
What are the contemporary and future built environment issues that matter?
Which of the opportunities and challenges that lie ahead do you agree with?
Listen to the perspectives of our panel and audience and you decide.
There are familiar themes – of disaffection and disappointment at the pace and
nature of change…
There are reminders that South Africa is not unique – that discord and
political polarisation are contemporary global issues…
And propositions that change and progress are likely to come from individuals
and collaborations and that “small wins” may be the order of the day.
Recorded on 22nd January 22nd, the Talking Transformation Podcast is indebted
to the panel members, the APES+ Committee and the audience who supported
the event. We hope and trust that this first venture proves the start of a series of
collaborations with partners sharing the same ideals and vision for the future.
Minimal edits for quality and continuity have been made to the published
content.
The panel comprises (Clockwise from top left and
with their requested perspective to inform their
contributions):
• Prof. Francois Viruly – “The Academic: Urban
Real Estate Unit, University of Cape Town
• Barabara Southworth – “The Experienced Hand”:
GAPP Architects
• Lwazi Nobaza – “The Last Minute Substitute and
Activist Public Official”: City of Cape Town
(CoCT)
• Jodi Allemeier - “The Dreamer”: PWC
• Elisabeth Varghese – “The Newbie”: Graduate
Intern (CoCT)

Episode 18:
“The Heart of
Matter”
Monty Narsoo
Opening Episode of the
Housing “Deep Dive Series”
The Talking Transformation Podcast conversations planned in the coming weeks are being scheduled as a “deep-dive” series
of conversations with a wide variety of practitioners active in the South African housing field. We're looking back at the
achievements and shortcomings of 26 years of implementation; considering current challenges and looking ahead to the
future of human settlements.
In this first episode of the series, we speak with Monty Narsoo who has served at the forefront of housing policy, programmes
and delivery since 1994. His CV is a testimonial to activism, public service and contribution to the housing field and built
environment more generally. He has served at the executive level of Gauteng Province Housing Department, as the founding
Chief Executive Officer of the South African Cities Network and as Deputy Director General at the National Department of
Housing. Since 2008 has been governance advisor to the National Department of Human Settlements. Few are better placed
to look back and reflect objectively than Monty.
We ask about the vision and the aspirations of the Mandela administration under the leadership of Joe Slovo; the tenets of
the Reconstruction Development Programme (RDP) and the Housing White Paper of 1994.
TTPod caught up with Monty whilst he was in Cape Town leading a capacity-building team from the National Upgrading
Support Programme (NUSP). His reflections set the tone and foundation for the conversations to come. Enjoy!
Recorded Feb 25th 2020

Episode 19:
“Growing Pains of
Integration and
Community Building:
Cosmo City Story”
Yasmin Coovadia
&
Tiaan Ehlers
An Episode of the TTPod Housing
“Deep Dive Series”
In 2004, to the north of the Johannesburg’s urban fringe - a “peri-urban area” in old planning terms - the City of Johannesburg broke ground on the
R3,5bn project: Comso City. It bookended ten years of democracy and the housing programme which had already delivered a million housing
opportunities across the country.
What makes and made Cosmo “special”? What did it take to bring this initiative to fruition? How many years of planning, of engagement with
communities – both for and against the development – of legal challenge came before this moment. How important was the concept of a public-private
partnership?
15 years on – a generation of Cosmopolitans later – how does the settlement “fit” within the success stories of human settlements in South Africa? Carte
Blanche saw fit to highlight Cosmo’s booming property market in 2019. How do we measure success in other ways? What’s been learnt about
integration, spatial transformation, “mixed typologies” and income groups and the concept of “well-located” land? Keep in mind the President’s New
City in waiting – Lanseria - is located a stone’s throw to the north along Malibongwe Drive.
So many questions! Who better to ask and look at this case study than Yasmin Coovadia and Tiaan Ehlers who were the Northern Johannesburg local
council executive officers for housing and planning respectively during the planning years of Cosmo.
Both have served the communities of Johannesburg and Gauteng for decades in various roles. In Yasmin's case she has worked in the executive
management of the Gauteng Housing Department and also within the corporate and private worlds. Since 2010 she has been a leading personality in
the National Treasury’s Cities Support Programme. As one of the consulting team responsible for amongst other things the Built Environment
Performance Plan and spatial targeting initiatives across the country. Tiaan has spent decades serving the communities of Johannesburg. He has spent
extended periods as the Executive Director for planning, environment and infrastructure and currently serves as a s special advisor to the City Manager.
Their expert and hands-on experience of the project makes for a fascinating and insightful, thought-provoking conversation in the second of our deep
dive housing series. As always we are indebted to our guests for sharing their experience and taking time out to talk.
Recorded Feb 26th 2020

Episode 20:
“Dignity, Respect, Love” –
Homelessness and the search for
connection on our city streets
– Founder Kerry Hoffman and Caryn
Gotkin of Souper Troopers
An Episode of the TTPod Housing “Deep Dive Series”
What does transformation mean for those who cannot find a place within their family or neighbourhood? When the streets offer
a less frightening option than those traditional spaces? What does hope look and feel like? How does that translate into options
and programmes for homeless community members and those interacting with them?
In an era of recession and failing state machinery the need to work in collaboration and with a common purpose is fundamental
to the humanity and dignity of all our citizens, across party lines, across income groups and between communities.
In this third episode of our housing deep-dive series, the Talking Transformation Podcast tries to understand the fundamentals;
the circumstances and the challenges that prevail within homeless communities. It is a complex and frequently divisive
topic. Fear, trauma, discrimination and prejudice, isolation, dislocation – these are some of the realities facing those living on our
streets. On the other hand, the negative perceptions of the homeless on neighbourhood character, amenity and environment are
negative issues stated by ratepayers and residents’ associations who claim not enough is being done to maintain those same
issues. what more can be done in partnership and consensus on what can be done?
We’re assisted in unpacking these aspects by the founders of the Cape Town’s Souper Troopers: a non-profit organisation
staffed by both homeless and “home full” volunteers. Founder Kerry Hoffman tells us her personal and life-changing approach to
the challenges of Cape Town’s homeless community. She is joined by our host for the discussion and fellow Souper Trooper
Caryn Gotkin who joined Kerry three years into the project.
Recorded 6th March 2020

Episode 21:
“The Road to Ficksburg”
The B(uilt) E(nvironment) I(ntegration) T(ask)
T(eam) journey - reflections on governance &
transformation in democratic South Africa
There are many spatially transformative proposals in the plans and
programmes of local government. National, provincial and local
government are all committed - on paper at least - to “Spatial
Transformation”. But what does it actually mean? Why is success of
government frequently measured only in numbers – the auditors
having an increasingly powerful role in the space and outcomes of
municipalities? What about the “softer” issues and the numerous
dependencies across municipalities and between spheres of
government?
Addressing complex spatial challenges successfully is frequently
dictated by the strength of the institutional and governance aspects to
be in place – the right people, in the right place, doing the right
things...
A multi-disciplinary team of dedicated professionals has been
reflecting on these issues across the country over a number of years.
The Built Environment Integration Task Team (BEITT) has been focused
on understanding what has been going on and what we can learn
about the forces and processes that play out when we endeavour to
transform places, spaces and communities.
Today we hear from Beryl Khanyile, Deputy City Manager at eThekwini
Municipality and Geoff Bickford, Programme Manager with the South
African Cities Network (SACN). Both were committed to the process
and products generated from the work of the BEITT.
We learn about the Citopoloy game developed as an interactive
platform for the team’s findings. Citopoly used actual practitioner
quotes from experience: each having a consequence impacting on
institutional and / or societal value. Themes of Leadership/ Interaction /
Rules of the Institution and Skills and Capacity frame the game play
and lesson learnt.
Beryl and Geoff kindly took time out from their work and showcasing
the work and products of BEITT and spoke to the Talking
Transformation Podcast about the BEITT journey and findings. Read
the report here and lean more about the interactive game developed –
Citopoly – here.
Geoff Bickford
South African Cities Network
Beryl Khanyile
eThekwini Municipality

In these troubling times, the Talking Transformation
Podcast team remains committed to bringing you
conversations from South Africa and beyond. In
what we anticipate will become an ongoing and
dynamic initiative we speak with professionals
working around the globe and ask them to share
their perspective and insights into the cities they are
operating from.
Some you will have heard from before like todays
guest, Eloise Rousseau who speaks to us from
central Hong Kong.
Some countries are coming out of the worst of the
pandemic, others, like South Africa are only
beginning to come to terms with the challenge.
How have they coped and what is it we should be
thinking about? We hope that others will join in the
conversation in coming weeks as we seek to spread
messages of learning, hope and courage in the face
of these unprecedented challenges. Please join us
on this journey.
Find us on Twitter: @talkingtransfo1
Flatten the Curve!
"Nkosi Sikelel' iAfrika"
TTPod Diary Entry
Number 2:
“View from the
Balcony”
[March 25th 2020] –
Global conversations on the COVID
19 pandemic

Episode 22:
“Incremental Densification - The
rise and rise of ‘backyard’ and
‘micro’ units in our cities”
In this episode of the TTPod we look at the growth of
backyarding and so-called, “micro” units within many
urban areas of South Africa and the economic and
accommodation opportunities they afford.
Our research journey takes us to Gauteng and the
Western Cape – to the banks of Alexandra,
Johannesburg and the historic Orlando and Zola in
Soweto. It brings us south to the Cape Flats, to
Khayelitsha and Delft South where we learn of the
challenges and opportunities alike for owners, builder
and the regulators.
When we think new cities – shouldn’t we be thinking of
this as the reality? The aesthetic, the density, the supply,
the gaps these typologies fill? If that IS the case what is
the role of the regulator and municipalities in terms of
building control, social and physical infrastructure,
safety etc.?
It is our fourth episode in our "deep-dive" series:
"We've GOT to talk about housing!" - 26 years and
counting... The episode considers research and findings
into these modes of delivery and looks at some
commonalties, differences, opportunities and
shortcomings.
We are joined by Associate Professors at Wits
University’s School of Architecture and Planning: Sarah
Charlton and Margot Rubin and Rob McGaffin –
Researcher at the UCT Urban Real Estates Unit.
Rob McGaffin – Researcher
at University of Cape Town’s
Urban Real Estates Unit
Sarah Charlton and Margot
Rubin the University of
Witwatersrand
School of Architecture

conversations from South Africa and beyond. We
continue to speak with professionals working around
the globe and ask them to share their perspective and
insights into the cities they are operating from.
Heading up the University of Cape Town's Urban Real
Estate Unit (URERU), Professor François Viruly has
already guested on our TTPod FutureCast panel
episode in February this year. We are delighted he’s
back again today to consider – even at this early stage -
the possible impacts of COVID 19 on the national
economy and property sector more directly.
We try and find possibilities in a time of great
uncertainty and think about the factors and
opportunities that could shape future trends more
directly post-COVID 19. We ask what could land use
“look like” in post COIVD 19 South Africa when
considering residential, industrial, retail and office
space?
As always the perspectives are thought provoking and
challenging and will be a useful reference for all of us
looking at the formal and informal economy both now
and in the future.
Flatten the Curve!
TTPod COVID Diary
Entry Number 3:
“End of Days or New Horizons?”
– During and after COVID 19 –
what can we expect from SA’s
property market
Global conversations on the COVID 19
pandemic

conversations from South Africa and beyond. We
continue to speak with professionals working around the
globe and ask them to share their perspective and
insights into the cities they are operating from.
Today from our base here in the global south we hear
from three colleagues from the global north, east and
west.
We hear back from Carli Venter in Bucharest, Romania
and Eloise Rosseau in Hong Kong and introducing Flavio
Coppola (C40)from New York City, USA.
NYC has become the epicentre of the disease in North
America and is struggling with the fundamentals of the
Constitutional lifeblood of freedoms of movement and
association and the practical realities of living with - and
potentially dying from - COVID 19. Infections are greater
than 100,000 cases and almost 1600 deaths have been
recorded in NYC.
Issues of trust, e-governance and real-time spatial
tracking of virus “hotspots” are themes in the
conversation. And DENSITY…that much beloved concept
of built environment practitioners and urbanists – it
comes under its own microscope.
Flatten the Curve!
TTPod COVID Diary Entry
Number 4:
“East meets West…North and South”
New York Enters the Conversation
Talking Transformation Podcast’s
Global conversations on the COVID 19
pandemic

In these troubling times, the Talking Transformation Podcast
team remains committed to bringing you conversations from
South Africa and beyond. We continue to speak with
professionals working around the globe and ask them to share
their perspective and insights into the cities they are operating
from.
Today we hear from the City of Cape Town’s Tim Hadingham
(Investment Facilitation) who reflects on his recent month-long
busman’s holiday to China and the City of Wuhan. His work in
support of the Atlantis Special Enterprise Zones (SEZ) supported
by the National Dept. of Trade and Industry (DTI) took him east
and we learn about that initiative before hearing of his reflection
on the cities of China and Wuhan in particular.
Wuhan is acknowledged as the “Ground Zero” of COVID 19 and
we hear Tim’s observations whilst there and now he’s back home.
We talk about the culture of Wuhan, the urban form and the
COVID response – a progressive shutdown of a city population of
almost 12 million people.
Joined by fellow podcast host, Catherine Stone we discuss not
only the China experience but look closer to home here in South
Africa: the lead-up to to the lockdown on the 27th March and the
possibilities and health and socio-economic challenges facing
South Africa in the future.
Density, scale, public space, leadership: all come under the
microscope. There’s also a few lighter moments to lighten the
serious narrative. As always, we hope you enjoy the episode and
welcome feedback via twitter @talkingtransfo1
Flatten the Curve!
Number 5:
COVID “Ground Zero” –
A visitor’s guide to Wuhan
Talking Transformation Podcast’s
Global conversations on the COVID
19 pandemic
Recorded 4th April 2020

In these troubling times, the Talking Transformation Podcast team
remains committed to bringing you conversations from South Africa
and beyond. We continue to speak with professionals working around
the globe and ask them to share their perspectives and insights into
the cities they are operating from.
From London, UK reflecting on his current experience working with the
municipality of Freetown - capital of Sierra Leone - we hear from
Modupe (Mo) Williams a Project and Programme Management
Professional and Professional Engineer.
Jana le Roux is a South African attorney by trade who is currently
studying Urban Planning & Housing Policy as a visiting Humphrey
International Fellow at the University of Minneapolis, Minnesota, United
States of America. She shares her observations on the US response to
COVID 19 and also some familiar built environment issues relevant to
SA such as inclusionary housing and inequality.
Sierra Leone has tackled an Ebola outbreak within this last decade and
we learn how that experience has shaped the COVID readiness and
response of the country and capital. Informal settlements, density and
basic infrastructure are common challenges to Sierra Leone and South
African context. The contrast with Minneapolis is stark but the
geographic spread and pace of the disease infiltration into the USA -
and UK - has, at this point been far greater in these more developed
nations.
We consider the local responses offered by each of these cities and
reflect on the roles and responsibilities of not only different spheres of
government but also the sectors leading COVID responses. The
contrast between the US and the South African response makes for a
particularly interesting contrast.
As always, we hope you enjoy the episode and welcome feedback via
twitter @talkingtransfo1
Flatten the Curve!
Number 6:
“Freetown and Land of the Free”
Contrasts, commonalities and
leadership in the time of Coronavirus
(Sierra Leone and USA)
Global Conversations on the
COVID 19 Pandemic

In these troubling times, the Talking Transformation Podcast team
remains committed to bringing you conversations from South Africa
and beyond. We continue to speak with professionals working around
the globe and ask them to share their perspectives and insights into the
cities they are operating from.
Heading up the University of Cape Town's Urban Real Estate Unit
(URERU), Professor François Viruly is closing in on securing a co-host
slot as he rejoins the conversation to discuss the economic impacts and
challenges implied by SA’s extended lockdown and the continued
uncertainty: what can government and industry collectively do to work
together and bring greater certainty to the future? We revisit some of
the themes from Diary Entry 3 and cover new territory relating to
COIVD-19’s impact on the property and business sectors .
We welcome the input of Ashraf Adam and the wealth of knowledge he
has developed whilst serving the public sector. Presently he is the CEO
at Mandela Bay Development Agency (MBDA). His extensive CV covers
global, national, provincial and municipal institutions and he holds
strong views and convictions which are frequently shared via the
conventional and social media platforms. His recent article in The
Herald titled “Our Chance to Press the Reset Button” made for very
fascinating reading and we invited him to share those views and what
led him to his conclusions in this episode.
The role of Local Economic Development units in municipalities; the
strength and weaknesses of our institutions here in South Africa; and
the impact of an economic downturn on municipal efficiency and
revenue collection: all are considered in this extended episode.
As always, we hope you enjoy the episode and welcome feedback via
twitter @talkingtransfo1
Flatten the Curve!
Number 7:
“On your marks, (re)set, GO!?”
Considering the structural and
institutional opportunities for socio-
econmomic and spatial change Post-
COVID
COVID 19 Pandemic

Since the advent of COVID-19 here in SA our post-apartheid housing themed
episodes have taken a back seat to the conversations locally and around the
world with our COVID dairies. This episode bridges directly and indirectly the
built environment, housing and COVID within one in-depth discussion.
Almost immediately COVID became a reality in South Africa, the recognition
that our most vulnerable of communities – those living in our densely
populated informal settlements with rudimentary sanitation and water - would
be MOST at risk from a virus that thrives on such infrastructure challenges. The
National Department of Humans Settlements had been swift to issue directives
requiring cities to de-densify hot-spot settlements they had identified.
Despite laudable intentions and a recognition of the scale and severity of the
challenge at hand, there are numerous and complex challenges and
implications of this “accelerated” de-densification approach. The challenge of
relocating families at a time of lockdown and crisis have been increasingly
reported on and the positions of NGOs presented. Many have been against
the approach.
Today we talk to Suzette van der Walt from 1-1 Agency of Engagement and
Aditya Kumar from the Development Action Group - DAG: both are architects
by trade. They provide their insights and perspective on the issues of density
and the de-densification of informal settlements and reflect on their
contributions made in response to COVID-19.
DAG were co-signatories to a NGO response the opposed the National
Ministry’s plans. We ask why they took that angle, what the authorities SHOULD
be focusing on and what lessons can we learn looking towards the future?
We ask Suzette about 1-1 Agency of Engagement’s recent publications looking
at these issues of density and de-densification and the spatial implication of
COVID and profiling risk in urban areas “Deciphering De-Densification” and
“Boundary of Home”.
Number 8:
“Deciphering De-densification”
Spatial and socio-economic
implications of urban density and
accelerated informal settlement
relocations
COVID 19 Pandemic

Talking Transformation Podcast Episode Guide as @ May 2020

Recommended

Recommended

More Related Content

Similar to Talking Transformation Podcast Episode Guide as @ May 2020

Similar to Talking Transformation Podcast Episode Guide as @ May 2020 (20)

Recently uploaded

Recently uploaded (20)

Talking Transformation Podcast Episode Guide as @ May 2020