Talking about topics like gender, race, sexual orientation, and class can raise anxiety for many people, and yet we must have the conversation in our schools and our lives in order to be more inclusive and change the world for the better. What are the fears and common pitfalls that keep us from broaching courageous conversations? Gain practical skills for responding to hurtful experiences and facilitating courageous conversations.
1. Malvern Preparatory School
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
Seattle Girls’ School
Safe to Brave:
Courageous Conversations
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
3. Agenda
Safe Versus Brave
Interrupting with Care
Facilitating Conversations
Resources and Tools
Questions and Answers
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
5. Safety Versus Comfort
Safety: I feel that, in this space, I can ask questions without
fear of judgment. I can voice my perspective and know that
I will be validated for the fact that that is my truth. Others
may challenge my ideas, but that challenge is in the spirit of
greater shared understanding and growth.
Comfort: I feel that, in this space, my reality will be agreed
with, validated, and unchallenged. I don’t have to explain
myself to be understood, and I don’t have to justify my
perspective, as everyone shares it.
True dialogue happens in an environment where everyone is
safe but not always comfortable...
SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND GROW.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
6. Moving Conversations
from Safe to Brave
Controversy with Civility
Ownership of intent and impact
Challenge by choice – with reflection
Respect in all its multiplicity
Pointed challenges, not personal attacks
Mindfulness of the true source of emotions
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
7. Debunking Some Myths
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
All or None
Mistakes
Apologies
“Tonsils” Theory
Vulnerability
9. Reflection: Courageous Conversations
What are some personal or
school environment
challenges for authentic
dialogue? How might you
move into more
courageous dialogues in
the classroom and beyond?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
11. What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Personally Impacted
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Did that really
happen? Do they
realize? I want to
trust, but I’ve had
this happen so
many times before.
I am so stressed,
confused, hurt….
12. What We End Up Saying
When Personally Impacted
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
That was so
offensive!
I can’t believe
you did that!
13. Self Advocacy When Impacted
Affirm the person, relationship, or rights
Describe the behavior without judgment
Explain the emotion/impact and your filters
Assume positive intent
Request or suggest different behavior
*** Key Points: timing, I statements, actions not
adjectives, inside feelings not outside feelings***
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
14. Self Advocacy Example
I really appreciate having you as a friend. I
have so much fun with you, and I can tell you
anything. Earlier today, when I got my math
test back and I got 98%, I heard you say, “Well
of course you got a 98% - you’re Asian!” I was
pretty hurt when I heard that. I work hard in all
my classes to get good grades, but so many
people assume it’s because of my race. It’s
sad that I don’t get to own my
accomplishments like everyone else. I’m
pretty sure you didn’t mean for me to feel that
way. Can I ask that you please don’t say
things like that anymore?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
15. What We’re Thinking and Feeling
When Witnessing Impact
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
I can’t believe this
is happening.
That’s SO not
right. Should I
say something?
Am I butting in?
Would it help?
I am so upset!
16. What We End Up Saying
When Witnessing Impact
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
17. What Others Hear When We Say Nothing
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
See? They
agree with me!
I am so right
about this.
No one sees or
understands. I
am alone.
18. NCBI Effective
Interventions Model
Reduce Defensiveness
– Tone
– Body Language
– Respect
Keep the Conversation Going
– Hear Them Out
– Ask Open-Ended Questions
– Set Aside Your Feeling for the Moment
– Dialogue
Build the Relationship
Stop the Behavior
Win an Ally
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
19. Intervening in Microaggressions: Examples
Ask open ended questions
– “He looked suspicious”
– “How did he look? How was he acting? Why was that suspicious?”
Find out the experience motivating the comment
– “Why can’t they just speak English around here?”
– “It must be hard not to understand what people are saying around you.”
– “I’m sick of my taxes paying for freeloaders”
– “Tell me more about about that.”
Use exaggerated humor to highlight what’s going on
(use sparingly)
– “You’re gay - what do gay people think about this issue?”
– “I’m not sure – I’ll go ask. It may take me a while, since there are so many of us.”
Join the person and do not make yourself superior
– “She got that award because she’s Black and female.”
– “You know, I hear that a lot. I’ve been trying to figure out why we seem to think when a
Black woman gets recognized it must be because of ‘diversity’ or ‘affirmative action’
reasons rather than that she earned it.”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
20. What Was Said During the Intervention
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Those words or
actions are
hurtful to me.
Please stop.
21. What We Hear During the Intervention
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
You are a
bad, bad
person, and I
hate you!
22. What We Should Hear
During the Intervention
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
You are basically a good
and decent person. As
with all of us, you’ve
made a mistake, and you
may not know how that
mistake is impacting
others. I am going to
give you the gift of
information so that your
intentions and impacts
match up.
23. When You’re Told About
Impact You Caused
Listen with full attention
Don’t try to defend or respond right away
– Take deep breaths
– Acknowledge your feelings
Your mistakes don’t define you
– Be worthy of their trust and gift
Prioritize the Impact over Intent
– Apologize for real
*** Moving through these moments with grace is
called shame resilience. It’s a vital skill***
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
24. When You’re Told About
Impact You Caused: Examples
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
“I really appreciate your telling me this.”
“I’m so embarrassed that I did that.”
“I’m very sorry my words and actions made you
feel that way. No matter what I intended, it hurt.”
“I’m pretty overwhelmed right now, and I don’t
want to respond in a way I’d regret. Do you think
you can help me come up with a better way to
handle that situation after I take a few minutes?”
“I wanted to go back to a moment I don’t think I
handled very well… Can we talk?”
25. Process Break
How might you use
these tools in the
classroom and beyond?
What questions or
concerns come up?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
tiny.cc/navigatemicroaggressions
27. Fears and Anxieties that Keep Us
from Having Conversations
Offending
Losing Face
Tokenism
Professional/Social Risk
Bursting the Bubble
Rocking the Boat
Conflict
Lack of “Authority”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
28. Pitfalls and Obstacles that Keep Us
from Conversing Again
Outbursts
Silence
Denial
The Good Talk
Teacher vs. Facilitator
Personal Attacks
The Quick Fix
Leadership Oppression
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
29. Comparing Dialogue and Debate
Dialogue is collaborative. Debate is oppositional.
In dialogue, one listens in order to understand and find
meaning. In debate, one listens in order to find flaws and
to counter arguments.
Dialogue reveals assumptions for reevaluation. Debate
defends assumptions as truth.
Dialogue calls for temporarily suspending one’s beliefs.
Debate calls for investing wholeheartedly into one’s
beliefs.
In dialogue, one searches for basic agreements. In
debate, one searches for glaring differences.
Dialogue remains open-ended. Debate implies a
conclusion.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Adapted from Shelley Bennan, Dialogue Group, Boston Chapter, Educators for Social Responsibility
30. Polarity Thinking
Cognition marked by flexibility and
elasticity that enables individuals to
recognize and navigate the countless
opposing yet interdependent energies
that manifest in all life. Polarity thinking
transforms ‘either/or’ contrasts into
‘both/and’ formulations that allow for
mutually-satisfying, stable, and
predictable gains in personal and
professional life.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Caroline Blackwell, National Association of Independent Schools
31. Polarity Mapping
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Caroline Blackwell, National Association of Independent Schools
32. Engaging Across Differences
Be willing to sit in the gray areas
Be willing to be uncomfortable
Be willing to be vulnerable
Be willing to extend trust and earn trust
Be willing to listen fully
Be willing to continue the conversation
Be willing to believe we need each other
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
33. Process Break
How might you use
these frameworks in the
classroom and beyond?
What questions or
concerns come up?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
34. Examples from the Road
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
35. Common Scenario:
Disengagement
• Separating Oneself Physically
• Not Speaking
• Side talking, Checking Phone
• Dismissive Body Language
• Turning In Body Language
• “Well, I identify as ____, and I don’t see how I
can relate to this topic…”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
36. Common Scenario:
Ranking Oppressions
• “In this world, it’s so much worse being a
woman than a Person of Color.”
• “We should talk about REAL problems like
immigration status. Ability affects very few
people.”
• “You come from so much wealth, what
problems could you possibly have?”
• “How could I possibly have privilege if I’m
Muslim?”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
37. Common Scenario:
Reverse Discrimination
• “There are so many ways women get special
treatment in the world – leadership programs for
women, STEM courses for girls, and men can’t
say anything these days without being accused of
sexism.”
• “Conversations about class privilege make me feel
guilty, so you’re making ME unsafe…”
• “It’s so much harder for me to get into college as a
White person. People of Color have it so much
easier – how is THAT fair?”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
38. Common Scenario:
Inclusion vs. Assimilation
• “We're all just here to get our education, not to
have some kind of Kum-ba-yah love-in.”
• “How can we be inclusive to EVERYONE’S
culture? Don’t we have to have some
standard for how we act at school or work??
• “Well, we can talk about inclusion here, but
how are we going to be prepared for the REAL
world, where not everyone thinks like this?”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
39. Common Scenario: Colorblindness
• “How could I be prejudiced? I have lots of
friends who are…”
• “I treat everybody the same. I don't care if
they are brown, blue, yellow or purple.”
• “Doesn’t talking about how different we are
just separate us and make problems
worse?”
• “Well I’m just White, so I don’t think about
race all the time like People of Color…”
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
40. Other Common Scenarios: Fear
• The role of and appropriate engagement for
people of privileged groups (i.e. White people
in conversations about race, males in
conversations about gender, etc.) (fear of
saying/doing the wrong thing)
• One or two students in a target group (fear of
hurting or offending)
• The “provocateur” who likes to create tension,
drama, or conflict (fear thereof)
• Big eruption of emotions (fear thereof)
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
41. For Your Toolbox
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
• Before a Lesson/Activity
• During
• After
• Be Mindful of Who You Are,
Whom You Are Leading,
What’s in the Air, etc.
• Use Your Resources
45. Know Your Growth Zones
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Comfort Zone:
Reliance on you
already know and do
well
Zone of Proximal
Development – The
Growth Zone:
Mindful and strategic
change toward the
next stage of growth
Panic Zone:
Unrealistic demands
on yourself and
others
46. Engage in Dialogue Versus Debate
Brenda J. Allen, Difference Matters: Communicating Social Identity
SUPPORTIVE DEFENSIVE
Description Evaluation
Problem-Orientation Control
Spontaneity Strategy
Empathy Neutrality
Equality Superiority
Provisionalism Certainty
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
47. Differentiate Safety Versus Comfort
Safety: I feel that, in this space, I can ask questions without
fear of judgment. I can voice my perspective and know that
I will be validated for the fact that that is my truth. Others
may challenge my ideas, but that challenge is in the spirit of
greater shared understanding and growth.
Comfort: I feel that, in this space, my reality will be agreed
with, validated, and unchallenged. I don’t have to explain
myself to be understood, and I don’t have to justify my
perspective, as everyone shares it.
True dialogue happens in an environment where everyone is
safe but not always comfortable...
SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND GROW.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
48. Move Conversations from
Safe Spaces to Brave Spaces
Controversy with Civility
Own your own intent and impact
Challenge by choice – with reflection
Respect in all its multiplicity
No personal attacks, but pointed
challenges are okay
Be mindful of the true source of your
emotions
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
49. Framing and Talking Points:
Different Occasions, Different Skills
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
50. Develop Your Inner Credible Hulk
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
51. Equality vs Equity
Everybody gets a shirt versus everybody
gets a shirt that fits.
Giving everybody some insulin in
equality. Giving only people who are
diabetic some insulin is equity.
What is “fair”?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
54. Correlation vs Causation
Correlation: When income is averaged and compared, there
is a strong correlation between gender and income. This is
due to a myriad of historical, systemic, and economic factors that
impact men and women differently in the workplace.
Causation: When income is averaged and compared, there is a
strong correlation between gender and income. This must be
because women must not be as smart, hard-working, or
good with money as men.
Correlation: When folks are carrying umbrellas, they are
also wearing rain boots. This is because it’s raining.
Causation: Umbrellas make people wear rain boots.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
55. Where We’re From vs Where We’re Going
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Where We Come From: In the past, LGBTQ people were
openly discriminated against. Many LGBTQ people were
killed, fired from jobs, kicked out of families, etc. We’ve come
so far. Now, we have openly gay celebrities, politicians, and
other public figures. Equal marriage rights is now law of the
land. Most schools and workplaces have LGBTQ non-
discrimination policies. Why are LGBTQ people are so angry?
Where We Are Going: We still have LGBTQ people who are
discriminated against. News stories abound of LGBTQ people
killed, fired from jobs, kicked out of families, and more. We
have such a long way to go. Having public role models on TV
doesn’t protect kids from bullying and harassment in the
hallways. Having nondiscrimination laws and policies don’t
mean LGBTQ people receive fair treatment in practice Why
are straight/cisgender people are so complacent?
56. Expert Opinion vs Personal Opinion
Expert Opinion: An astronomy professor, widely published in
academic journals and books, with a national reputation in her
field, states that, according to the most current science, there
are 8 planets in our solar system.
Personal Opinion: Another person asserts that there are 9
planets because that is what he learned in school and from
his parents, he had a map of the sky in his bedroom as a
child, and everyone he knows agrees with him.
Expert Opinion: Experts in multiple fields validate the
existence, reality, and impact of microaggressions, stereotype
threat, racial anxiety, implicit bias, etc.
Personal Opinion: I think people should stop being so
sensitive and get over it. We live in a post-racial society. I
don’t have a racist bone in my body.
Is everybody’s opinion equally valid?
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
57. Privilege
“Privilege exists when one group has
something of value that is denied to others
simply because of the groups they belong
to, rather than because of anything they’ve
done or failed to do.”
[as described by Peggy McIntosh and quoted by Allan Johnson]
Privilege is SYSTEMIC. It drives the
systems that dominate our societies.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
58. Two Types of Privilege
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
Unearned Advantage
an unearned entitlement
(i.e. things of value that
all people should have)
that is restricted to
certain groups
Conferred Dominance
bestowed control;
granted authority;
awarded power or
domination- Giving one
group power over
another
60. Situational Advantage
There are prime parking spots and seats
reserved for people with disabilities. People
with disabilities are often first to board
planes and other transportation vehicles.
These advantages are situational and do not
balance out systemic oppression.
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
62. An Ally Is…
“a person who is a member of the dominant or
majority group who works to end oppression in
his or her personal and professional life
through support of, and as an advocate with
and for, the oppressed population”
Washington and Evans, Becoming an Ally
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
63. An Ally Is…
“Someone who doesn’t have to stand up for
someone else, who might even lose something
if they do, but they do it anyway because they
know it’s the right thing to do”
6th Grade Student
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
64. Savior Complex
Centers on the “Helper” and not the “Helped”
Centers on making the “Helper” feel good about
themselves
Assumes that the “Helper” knows what is best for the
“Helped,” often without even hearing from the direct
experiences of the “Helped”
Doesn’t acknowledge deep injustices, where the “Helper”
is privileged and the “Helped” are oppressed
Doesn’t do anything to give power to the “Helped”
Does not create sustainable change – once the “Helper”
stops doing what they are doing, so does the positive
change
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
65. Allyship and Solidarity
Centers on the “Helped” and not the “Helper”
Centers on the “Helper” fulfilling a societal responsibility
as the privileged
Assumes that the “Helped” knows what is best for the
“Helped,” and that the job of the “Helper” is to assist the
“Helped” in meeting those needs
Acknowledges deep societal injustices, where the
“Helper” and “Helped” are equal in dignity and unequal in
access through no fault or earning of each party
Results in the “Helped” becoming more powerful
Creates sustainable change where the “Helper” becomes
obsolete because the positive change continues with or
without them
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
66. Developing into an Ally
Karen Bradberry, PhD
Active Passive Passive Active
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
68. Presenter Information
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee
6th Faculty and
Professional Outreach
Seattle Girls’ School
2706 S Jackson Street
Seattle WA 98144
(206) 805-6562
rlee@seattlegirlsschool.org
http://tiny.cc/rosettalee
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)
69. Resources
• Anti-Defamation League
• Brené Brown
• Cross Cultural Connections
(www.CulturesConnecting.com)
• National Coalition Building Institute
• The People’s Institute
• Stirfry Seminars
• Teaching Tolerance
• The Thiagi Group
Rosetta Eun Ryong Lee (http://tiny.cc/rosettalee)