9 email log

E-mail Log
Thoughts and ideas concerning military veterans
and continuing education
Michael Sayre
E-mail communications gathered for the purpose of submitting with my ALED Veteran Student Directed Studies
packet. The original assignment called for creating a 1-hr course that would become the property of the
University (College of Agriculture) that might be used for transitioning service-members. It has been my
observations and experiences that the University could better assist transitioning service-members by the
creation of some policy instead.
In keeping with the spirit of the assignment, and it’s intended possible usage, I have proposed that the University
study the various enlisted occupations throughout our nation’s military and match, where possible, offered
degrees to the experiences that our military veteran’s possess.
Texas A&M is proud of its military heritage. I can think of no better way to honor and serve future generations of
our nation’s veterans then by assisting them with their transition out of the military while simultaneously
preparing them for future success by providing a formal link between their accomplished past and their potential
future.

Table of Contents
i
Sent: Sat 12/8/2012 1:01 PM
Subject:
To: MRanda Sandlin ...…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….………1
Sent: Sun 2/17/2013 3:24 PM
Request for Face-Time from an ALED military veteran student
To: vpsa@tamu.edu ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….2
Sent: Tue 2/19/2013 7:14 AM
RE: Recieved Responces
To: MRanda Sandlin ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..3
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:58 AM
RE: Recieved Responces
To: Mike Sayre ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..3
Recieved Responces
To: MRanda Sandlin …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….3-4
Sent: Sat 3/2/2013 2:41 PM
Interview Aftermath: Col. Smith
Sent: Mon 3/4/2013 8:51 PM
Status Update

E-Mail Log
Page 1 of 9
Sent: Sat 12/8/2012 1:01 PM
To: 'MRanda Sandlin'
Subject:
Message –
…
I have long been under the impression that there’s 3 main “transition programs” for military members
when it comes bringing them back into the civilian sector/population.
Helmets to Hard Hats – This is a program that’s supposed to be geared to putting military personnel into
the construction industry.
Troops to Teachers – This is a program that’s supposed to be geared to putting military personnel into
the educational field.
G.I. Bill – This is a program that’s supposed to be geared to assisting military personnel realize their own,
individual desires/goals.
…
While I feel all seek to make an attempt at thanking us for our service and sacrifices I feel in the end
we’re left to building Starbucks, babysitting the wealthy’s children, and like my own personal
experiences have reflected, reduced to going to the same set of motions as everybody else, with
absolutely no regard for the fact that we are nothing like everybody else. (I’m sorry but using my basic
training to count as credit towards a physical education requirement doesn’t count in my book.) To
make matters worse it seems that because we know about personal hardship and sacrifice that we’re
suppose to just sit there and only contribute in a manner that’s consistent with the “system’s” benefit to
the group while ignoring us as individuals.

E-Mail Log
Page 2 of 9
Sent: Sun 2/17/2013 3:24 PM
To: 'vpsa@tamu.edu'
Subject: Request for Face-Time from an ALED military veteran student
Message –
Gen. Weber,
Greetings, Howdy, and Semper Fi.
I am Michael Sayre, a senior ALED major, former Marine, ex-Soldier, and current Reserve Sailor. I was
wondering if I might schedule a time to visit with you in person so that I might speak with you and
perhaps ask you a few questions.
To be clear of my intent, I wish to discuss academics, specifically the directed studies program that I’m
currently enrolled in, as I feel that you might be able to offer some valuable input. I’ve been asked to
create a 1 credit hour course, complete with a syllabus, objective, calendar, content, and assignments.
I’m not necessarily asking for your direct assistance, but rather wish to hear your thoughts on the
matter. For me, I find myself at a crossroads between the importance and value of higher education and
the manner in which that higher education is executed. Granted, I’m an atypical veteran, this
assignment has left me to ponder upon a previously unasked question of mine:
What special considerations or changes has the university undergone to better serve or assist military
veterans (especially those with combat awards like a CAR or CAB) as they transition into civilian life and
is there any real responsibility or obligation of the university to do so?
Most of the assignment is rather straight-forward and I don’t anticipate much, if any, difficulty. The
course creation portion of the assignment seems to delve into the realm of explaining the importance
and value of higher education. I ask this because from my perspective as a student sitting a classroom
seat, the system seems to prefer to operate by treating us as another 17 – 20 year-old in the crowd. To
be honest with you, Sir, I’ve contented myself with simply completing required coursework without any
extra effort. I was a Marine and Soldier before I was an Aggie and I will not be defined by my GPA.
However, this assignment seems like an opportunity to assist both the university and future veterans.
I feel like I’m not alone with this viewpoint. Recently I partook in a survey conducted by a PhD student,
M'Randa Sandlin, as she sought out some of the very answers to my question, thanks in part to her keen
observational skills at picking out the behaviors of military veterans sitting in her classroom (especially
of those recently returned from deployment).

E-Mail Log
Page 3 of 9
Sent: Tue 2/19/2013 7:14 AM
Subject: RE: Recieved Responces
Message –
Wow. Your either in your office early or staying late! I just wanted to say thanks for letting me bounce
my thoughts off you. Please don’t let me distract you from your studies and your work.
You make a good point. I believe I can provide specifics, but I really am loathe to make it about me
(again atypical just starts to describe me) as I’d prefer (to use an ALED term) keep it utilitarian and also
incorporate other non-traditional students as well. After all, even though I’m often the oldest in a given
class, I see the grey hairs walking around too.
From: MRanda Sandlin [mailto:MRanda.Sandlin@agnet.tamu.edu]
To: Mike Sayre
Subject: RE: Recieved Responces
Mike-
Looks good! One thing that I would keep in mind and ask about is the fact that you coming and staying
in college was/is your choice. I'm just playing devil's advocate here, but I don't want them to corner you
and essentially say that if you are unhappy then you should have left...so you may really think about why
you-as a veteran-value the concept of higher education and what you feel higher ed could potentially
offer veterans. Maybe higher ed as a "retooling" option is not for everyone, but maybe there could be
some veteran-specific classes/programs to push veterans, like yourself, who would still be willing to assist
the military after discharge (i.e. logistics, cadet education, etc.)
Just some thoughts-hope they help stimulate some thinking!
From: Mike Sayre [michaeltsayre@gmail.com]
To: MRanda Sandlin
Subject: Recieved Responces
M’Randa,
Just wanted to let you know that I received responses from Gen. Weber’s office and Col. Smith. Both
have expressed a willingness to meet with me.
Turns out that was the easy part … now I suppose I’ve got to do some hard thinking.
Off the top of my head I’ve got:
 Why am I (we) here?
o i.e. Was lured into service for the promise of an education (among other things) why all
this extraneous stuff?

E-Mail Log
Page 4 of 9
o Military and colleges are “social institutions” is there more to producing a “good citizen”?
 Education vs. Regurgitation vs. Actually learning something new and useful
o Generally speaking, the veteran status implies honorable discharge which authorizes the
utilization of benefits. I’ve already proven myself.
 Personal Antecedents
o Painful transfer from Marines to Army … ineligible for promotion because
background/training wasn’t Army despite Marine training/experience never mind the
actual Army school was a joke (to be polite) as I knew more than the instructors
o Transactional cost of being here.
 I’m not living my life, doing what I want to do. I’m not employed in the civilian
world making real money. In fact I turned down a 100K/year contracting job so I
could deploy, and then go to school, now I’m familiar with the poverty line.
Aside from needing to clean all that up and putting some polish on it, what do you think?

E-Mail Log
Page 5 of 9
Sent: Sat 3/2/2013 2:41 PM
Subject: Interview Aftermath: Col. Smith
Message –
M’Randa,
As you know, I spoke to Col. Smith on Thursday. I think I was scheduled for an hour, but we spoke for an
hour and a half. It was pleasant, informational, and even a little motivational. He talked to me about the
history of his office, Veteran Services, tracing its origins back to the 1940s with its various names and
locations, to include where it fell underneath the TAMU organizational chart. (Currently it is under
Financial Aid.) More than that history he had a lot of the Why. He sat at his desk and pulled up my
original e-mail up and the hour and a half was really him picking it apart, piece by piece and discussing
what I said to clarify what I mean.
So, here are the portions of that e-mail that we discussed at length:
PART 1:
For me, I find myself at a crossroads between the importance and value of higher education and the
manner in which that higher education is executed. Granted, I’m an atypical veteran, this assignment
has left me to ponder upon a previously unasked question of mine:
PART 2:
veterans (especially those with combat awards like a CAR or CAB) as they transition into civilian life and
is there any real responsibility or obligation of the university to do so?
PART 3:
The course creation portion of the assignment seems to delve into the realm of explaining the
importance and value of higher education. I ask this because from my perspective as a student sitting a
classroom seat, the system seems to prefer to operate by treating us as another 17 – 20 year-old in the
crowd.
Here is some of what we discussed:
PART 1:
He mentioned that he found himself in a conversation just the other day on this very topic. In fact he
was preparing a PowerPoint that he was going to present to some grad students so that he could get
some feedback from them. He was illustrating the strengths and styles of military education and
experiences and had a slide devoted to the definition of the word: veteran. There exists a federal, state,
and academic definitions. He said that military and civilian education exists on two different spectrums:
the military purview is that of a “jack-of-all-trades”, i.e. we must be knowledgeable in areas that are a
mile wide and an inch deep. On the other end of the spectrum, civilian (higher education) concentrates

E-Mail Log
Page 6 of 9
its focus in an area that is an inch wide and a mile deep. However, he expressed some concern as to if
that’s the actual case or if some of college is a simple extension of high school. (More in PART 3.)
PART 2:
This question was really broken down into subparts because he felt that it was such a powerful, pointed,
and loaded question that he wanted to make absolute certain that we could communicate precisely.
Here’s the subparts:
PART 2 A:
veterans
It turns out that his office is new (6 months old). He went back to his history of the Department of
Veteran Affairs and showed me its “structure”. It’s kind of like a leadership theory: it’s a bunch of words
in diagram form. But it’s umbrella in shape with three or four supporting pillars. I paid most attention to
the last pillar: Graduation/Employment/Member of the Former Student Association. For veterans,
people that are used to living for a mission, this is it: graduation and employment is our focus. He also
gave me a copy of some upcoming events that are specific to veterans one particular notable is V-Camp
to correspond with the current Fish and T-Camps.
PART 2 B:
(especially those with combat awards like a CAR or CAB)
This was a topic of special interest because in the military, awards are a very big deal. First, he wanted to
ensure I wasn’t making a distinction between the “haves and have-nots”; which I was not. Instead it was
my way of pointing out that as veterans we are capable of assimilating large amounts of data choosing
what is important and what is not. After all, it is the ability to do so that enables us to make life or death
decisions and to carry out our assigned missions. From here we talked a little bit about academics.
I feel like he wanted to leave me with the impression that required courses are intended for individual
“roundness” and for providing a common “background”. He asked me why I didn’t pick Industrial
Distribution as my major, given my logistics background. And I thought I saw him wince when I told him
they turned me away because of my inability to do calculus and physics (required courses that have no
real impact on the ability to perform the jobs they do [I’ve spoken to actual ID students and they’ve
been told as such]). We also talked about courses I’m taking (and took) in the ALED degree plan and he
pointed out that I’m in those courses simply because my degree plan starts with the word: Agriculture.
In short, Academia is academia.
PART 2 C:
as they transition into civilian life

E-Mail Log
Page 7 of 9
He agreed with my assessment that as military veterans we are in fact in a period of transition. He also
mentioned (and thanked me) that when he was Active Duty he used to ask his Marines why they were
getting out of the Marine Corps. He said that overwhelmingly he was told that they were getting out to
go to school. He said that there’s statistics that show less than 10% (I think that was the figure) actually
attend school. So it was good that I’m moving in the direction that I am and told me to continue to
charge forward, that it’ll be worth it in the end. I’ll look back in 10 years and appreciate it.
PART 2 D:
and is there any real responsibility or obligation of the university to do so?
He simply let me answer that question for myself, asked me for what I thought, and so here is what I
said (sort-of): Unfortunately I happen to know the correct, technical, and theoretical answer to this. Any
responsibility or obligation is born out of the wishes of society and that ultimately if there is to be any
reward, it is derived from them. Then he asked me what I thought, personally; I told him yes, he agreed.
PART 3:
Some classes are simple fill-in-the-blank or regurgitation classes, I think we both agreed on that point.
He offered that as a veteran I ought to consider finding a way to assist the instructor, but ‘on the edges’.
I countered that I feel there might be some role confusion between that of instructor and student,
especially since I’m going to be held to the same standards and expectations as the others without
receiving any sort of compensation. I feel that he insisted that it could be done, but it would have to be
done in a delicate fashion. The end point to this was that we can help each other.
As to the matter of being treated like another 17 – 20 year old in the crowd, unfortunately as veterans
we are doing things backwards. We’ve tons of practical application that the theory is supposed to
prepare you for and then we come back to campus only have the theory shoved down our throats. It
doesn’t go down well and unfortunately that might not change. But that doesn’t mean to give up hope.
Wow. That took me over an hour to compose. Please kept that in mind and I hope you find something
useful in there (I mean in terms of aiding your research). I need to rest my brain and I’ll get back to on
my meeting with the General.

E-Mail Log
Page 8 of 9
Sent: Mon 3/4/2013 8:51 PM
To: 'Smith, Jerry'
Subject: Status Update
Message –
Col. Smith,
Hopefully, I’ll have more to follow, but this is what I have to offer at the moment:
LtGen. Weber –
I only had 30 mins with the General, as he had a 4:00 appointment in addition to visiting with me. I
caught him as he was walking back into his office, so he greeted me with a casual, “Mr. Sayre - The Man
of Three Services” as he walked in. I was honestly unsure for a second if it wasn’t “pucker-time”. But, he
quickly put me at ease.
I feel like the first 10 mins or so was typical small-talk. I did find it interesting that he asked me if I had
done any internships anywhere. (I’m quite certain he was probably sizing me up.)
Then he asked me what was I there to ask him. I asked him what he thought about regarding the
importance of higher education. As I listened to him, I actually felt like I was hearing some of my
thoughts come out of his mouth.
He mentioned that as higher education costs continue to rise, legislators will soon have to re-address
this issue. However, for the 18 year-old that has the money and time to spend, it really is a wonderful
institution. After all, they spend roughly 20% of their time in the classroom (where they’re supposed to
be learning great things) and then they spend about 80% of their time socializing, tailgating, and doing
whatever else it is that people of that age do. (I want to recall that he made some remark concerning
that college has traditionally served as an agent in socializing a populations’ youth.)
Then he went on to add:
That the military veteran would make an excellent candidate for some sort of pilot program. There
ought to be some way where they come in, you open up their record book, and you just find a way to
give them credit. It would have to be done on a case-by-case basis, but that’s what the program should
do. After all, the veteran doesn’t even want to be here. (His words.) Plus, there’s that fact that even
though the veteran isn’t spending their own money on tuition, we would save the federal government a
lot of money if we sat the veteran down and pushed them through, also saving the veteran’s time. The
Universities focus, as far as the veteran is concerned, is to assist them finding employment after
graduation, because that’s why they are here.
Then he added that being an Aggie really is something special, because Aggies really do take care of
each other. Upon noticing that I did not yet have my ring he told me that my priorities ought to be to
graduate and to get that ring.

E-Mail Log
Page 9 of 9
So after speaking with the two of you, I’ve changed my position from, “You don’t see a military ring on
my finger,” to actually looking to see if I qualify for it. Sadly, my math skills have me at being 6 hours
short of the requisite 45 undergraduate resident hours at this time.
I did mention the idea of matching degrees to MOSs and he thought it was a good idea and probably
information that the veteran would probably be better off getting in SEPS/TAPS, before they leave the
service and step foot on the university.

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