Interview mit IMIM-Programmleiter Andy Kaltenbrunner im Rahmen des EU-COST Programms "Transforming Audiences, Transforming Societies.

1. Action ISO906
Audience Interactivity
and Participation
Media Company Representatives
Interviews and Essays
EDITORS
Birgit Stark
Bozena I. Mierzejewska
ISBN 978-2-9601157-1-0

2. INTERVIEWS / ESSAY
TABLE OF CONTENTS
INTERVIEWS
“There is no such thing as a ‘convergence continuum’ aiming towards
the perfect solution.”
Name of the Interviewer
Prof. Dr. Birgit Stark
Name of the Interviewee
Dr. Andy Kaltenbrunner
”Social media is not a threat but a reward for companies!”
Name of the Interviewer
Prof. Dr. Birgit Stark
Name of the Interviewee
Ina von Holly
ESSAY
”New Tools and Scenes for the Media Play”
Name of the Author
Josefa Haas

3. Andy Kaltenbrunner, PhD, political scientist,
is co-founder and managing director of
Name of the Interviewer Medienhaus Wien. Kaltenbrunner worked
Prof. Dr. Birgit Stark as a political journalist and editor-in-chief
Institution for newspapers and magazines (e.g. the
Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz
Department for Communication developed several media-projects, print and
Country online. Today is a media-advisor, researcher
Germany and lecturer in Austria, Germany and Spain.
Email Address
birgit.stark@uni-mainz.de
executive MA-programme “International
Name of the Interviewee
Dr. Andy Kaltenbrunner carried out in Austria, Germany, Spain and the
Institution
Medienhaus Wien and research projects, among them the
Country
Austria journalism-programme “Journalismus und
Keywords
Newsroom Convergence, Interaction,
Comparative Analysis

4. INTERVIEW ANDY KALTENBRUNNER
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
and speed limits for convergence processes
Kaltenbrunners research and in the newsroom is, of course, the level
consulting in the last decade is of internet penetration in the markets.
integration-processes in European In Europe, the fastest convergence and
and US newsrooms. For a list of integration processes are to be found in the
projects and publications see www. Northern countries. In contrast, in central
mhw.at/ European countries such as Germany and
Austria the discussion is still at a very early
stage with many media-companies currently
starting their newsroom-integration and
“THERE IS NO SUCH rethinking their business models. In southern
Europe there is less limitation to media cross
THING AS A ‘CONVERGENCE
ownership allowing some early convergence-
CONTINUUM’ AIMING processes in national and regional markets
also integrating local radio and TV. We could
TOWARDS THE PERFECT
SOLUTION.” matrix model to understand the different
status of newsroom-developments. (See:
GARCIA, MEIER, KALTENBRUNNER) But
Media convergence is reshaping news roughly speaking we come across 3 models:
development? One is the “Coordination of different
platforms” model which means that there
Newsrooms are very different from what are almost no integration processes in the
they were only a decade ago. Convergence newsrooms yet. However, on companies’
business level, strategies for different
media channels are being discussed and
new digital ways of gathering and sharing measures such as commercial cooperation,
information, organising integration processes content sharing or cross marketing have
within the newsrooms and of course tailoring been implemented. It is interesting to see
news production differently for different then that in central Europe some of the most
channels. Throughout Europe and the USA economically successful online-operations
we can see different models of newsroom are not integrated at all into their companies’
organisation. This is due to national traditional newsrooms: Like Spiegel online in
traditions in journalism and different media Germany or der Standard.at in Austria. One
legislation. The type of legislation will might assert that that they could grow at
determine whether integration processes and eye level with print especially because they
media-cross ownership including TV, radio, could develop far away from traditionalist
print media and all kind of digital operation worry lines. Their next steps of convergence
will speed up, slow down or be otherwise versus splendid isolation will be interesting.

5. Another model is “Cross media”. It involves bi-media for about ten years after the
pushing processes on a company level, in introduction of an integrated newsroom
newsroom organisation and also journalistic including daily print, weeklies, online.
processes to integrate parts of all media-
platforms. A high percentage of managers and The Swiss Ringier newsroom for “Blick”
leading editors have to be multi-skilled and opened in 2010 might also be considered
well prepared in order to steer cross-media as a good result of a well structured
production. A steadily growing percentage of convergence process of print and online.
the journalistic staff are working bi-media,
be it print/online or radio/TV (as many did no such thing as a “convergence continuum”
already before the digital age) or TV/online, (DAILEY et al.) aiming towards the perfect
etc. Many big and small news operations solution. There is permanent change, faster
might be assigned to this model, among than ever, driven by digitisation as one key
them the big BBC with its attempts to inspire factor - but newsroom processes depend
the Radio/TV/Online newsroom in London on different national and cultural limiting
with real integrated life in news production.
It’s a mission that will not be completed for and do not necessarily all lead towards fully
many years. Another good example is Unidad converged media organisation with fully
Editorials media house in Madrid with its integrated newsrooms.
its online staff - managing the biggest news
website for the Spanish speaking world - with newsroom structures on interactive and
its many hundreds of journalist and producers participatory communication strategies?
of Spain’s second largest newspaper. The What role can organizational structure play
processes of integration are accepted as a in supporting audience participation?
permanent struggle for more cross-media
understanding and production. In the Revealing the MP expenses scandal was
tradition of Spain’s great author Antonio the Daily Telegraph’s most important scoop
Machado: Paths are made by walking. in 2009 shortly after moving into the new
newsroom. Leading journalists liked to
The last model is of “Full integration” in the emphasise back then that the converged
newsroom, which does of course not exist in newsroom with its many digital channels
its pure form. Some role models have that to communicate with readers and users
high pretension, such as the Daily Telegraph’s made the success even bigger. Reactions
newsroom with its 800 journalists behind of journalist had become faster than
Victoria Station which is a demo-object ever and helped to encourage readers
developed by the world association IFRA. and users to comment on their regional
Others, on smaller regional level, radio MP’s performance. Commenters discussed
and local TV can come closer to the ideal questions of corruption in democracy which
model like the Danish Nordjyske Stiftstidene were fundamentally raised by the Telegraphs
with almost all journalists working at least story which revealed how politicians

6. INTERVIEW ANDY KALTENBRUNNER
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
exploited the system of parliamentary What we see is a transition process.
allowances. Interaction with the users made For many journalists, the integration of
it much easier to sell the daily newspaper audiences, communication on eye level with
and even books summarising the scandal. the formerly passive reader or viewer is
still more irritating than motivating. Making
The Telegraph’s competitor, The Guardian, one’s way into social media platforms is
reacted quickly and demonstrated how even more complicated. Also media law
to improve and intelligently use the new makers do not know yet how to regulate the
interactive possibilities. It put all the new phenomena. One more example: For
thousands of MPs expenses papers, bills, Austria’s public national broadcaster ORF
receipts online and asked its users to help
to analyse them. It can be considered the participate in social media platforms and
channels like Facebook or Twitter.
of a newspaper’s journalistic investigation
in such dimensions: Many thousands of We know and take into account that since
the Guardian’s readers commented these 2 or 3 years ago, a fast growing percentage
of traditional media content is only found
because of recommending links and “Likes”
of friends in social media. For some media
being on the cutting edge of participatory platforms, users’ comments in social media
communication with its readers.
than Google or smaller search engines. In the
In 2009, the Guardian and its Sunday paper case of the Austrian parliament’s social media
The Observer had moved into a completely ban for the ORF this means that the national
new, integrated, somehow stylish newsroom.
Its editor, Alan Rusbridger, later presented important parts of its audience, especially
himself as one of the prophets of the digital age the younger users, listeners and viewers.
- motivating his staff to follow and his readers
to join in. Today so called SMOs - social media Of course the individual journalist’s
optimisers - work as specialists, training the attitude towards interactivity in the
staff in communicating with the audience and professional process has been changing. It
attracting it. Such processes are still relatively has increasingly been welcomed and even
new - but obviously the companies and their seen as an enormous chance for new ways
management policy is the most important
and digital interactivity as a permanent
and interactivity are encouraged and new part of life. These are new chances for
interactive projects will be supported. both the fresh generation coming from
universities and journalism schools as well
In your opinion, is there a change in journalists’ as the open minded experienced journalists
attitudes towards interactivity? (Connecting with with curiosity and mid-career training. This
is not only a question of age: Journalists with

7. many years in the newsroom and experience “Media Accountability” in 13 European and
in mass communication may be more Arabic countries, from Britain to Tunisia.
deliberative when analysing latest fashion. One outcome of our empirical survey -
But companies and societies interested which is still on-going: Journalists in most
in quality journalism have to offer them of the selected countries consider audiences
programs for further training in order to see online-commentaries on ethical and quality
such new developments as early as possible. standards as increasingly important. One
societies with a high quality level of educational instruments complementing traditional media
systems in general do also offer better training accountability instruments (see: EBERWEIN;
opportunities for professional communicators. FENGLER; LAUK; LEPPIK-BORK).
When we look into Scandinavian newsrooms
who understand new digital developments,
convergence processes and new forms of production by the user?
interactivity. Those journalists see mid-
career training as a permanent part of their There are as many as the different cultural
professional development. traditions and political meanings of
communication. One more example: We all
In Austria, for many decades there have found it most interesting and fascinating how
not been any attempts to train journalists. mobile content helped to organise the Arab
This has only changed as a result of new Spring. Talking with social media managers
initiatives during the last few years. There of leading independent Arab media such as
still is almost no kind of journalism training
in eastern European countries. There is no too convinced that this important protest
channels in the uprising against the old
regime will also help very much to build a
offering very good programs, research new, more democratic, more open society.
results and training for the elite of media Germans at the same time might see of
and people – while leaving many others far course the remarkable differences in tone
behind. It is like the educational system in and analysis of user content criticizing the
general. This might produce an army of low German president in FAZ.net compared
skilled labourers in media industries who to BILD.de. So differences in user content
will not catch up with the needs, neither production are also a mirror of the state
of their profession nor of their users. of democracy, of media landscapes and
But all of them can see and feel the paradigm different interaction strategies in societies:
shift towards interactivity with a high Austria’s biggest news media website
valuation of user participation. With our team derstandard.at allowed user comments from
of “Medienhaus Wien” we are participating in the very beginning, in the mid 1990s, below
an EU-funded international study, comparing every journalistic article. Today several ten

8. INTERVIEW ANDY KALTENBRUNNER
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
thousands of user-comments come in every about the differentiation of professional work
day - an enormous user community producing from user content. Let me add a personal
interesting information but also foolish and comment after visiting dozens of European
even rude abuse or simply a terribly stupid newsrooms. I am very much in favour of
seeing Brecht’s theory of the radio (see
almost impossible to moderate. BRECHT) becoming partly true. Everybody
should be enabled to be a sender. But as soon
This is less common in Scandinavia - one might as we think that amateur weblogs and user
assume because bad behaviour and personal contents in general are more interesting,
amusing and - worst case - more accurate
even with that possibly more educated and than the information provided by traditional
less abusive tradition of political discussion, news organisations - then journalism as we
the Internet pioneers in northern Europe , e.g. knew it is in real trouble.
from the Bonnier group, never liked the idea
of having user comments posted on the same References
platform right underneath the professionals
Brecht, Bertolt: Der Rundfunk als
country, another tradition: There always was Kommunikationsapparat. Rede über die
the concept of “Tertulia”, which a century Funktion des Rundfunks; Vorschläge für den
ago was the intellectual public discussion in Intendanten des Rundfunks; Radio - eine
the coffee house. During the last decades
people were overfed with “Tertulias” on the 21, Schriften I, Berlin 1989.
radio, many of them far from intellectual or
even quite the contrary. The user discussion Carvajal, Miguel; Garcia-Aviles, Jose; Meier,
online - sometimes loud, rude and childish - Klaus; Kaltenbrunner, Andy; Kraus, Daniela
adds just one more channel to many other (2009): Newsroom Integration in Austria, Spain
forms of hot-tempered public debate which and Germany: Models of Media Convergence.
already existed. In: Journalism Practice 3(3): 285-303.
Maybe here is one of the keys for the future Dailey, Larry; Demo, Lori; Spillman, Mary
of journalism: combining a maximum of (2005): The Convergence Continuum: A
interactivity, integrating user’s knowledge Model for Studying Collaboration between
and content ideas with an honest desire to Media Newsroom. In: Atlantic Journal of
understand the audience - but at the same Communication 13(3): 150-168.
time combining it with the highest possible
standards in journalistic investigation Eberwein, Tobias; Fengler, Susanne; Lauk,
and storytelling. That needs a newsroom Epp; Leppik-Bork, Tanja (Eds.) (2011):
organisation open to permanent change and Mapping Media Accountability - in Europe
development. Some media like the Guardian and Beyond. Köln: Halem.
are working on that. But in the end it again is

9. Several years of work experience focused
on campaigning, public affairs, sustainibility,
corporate social responsibility, social medial
(e.g. Ketchum Pleon/ ECC Kothes Klewes
for clients like Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung,
Deutscher Sparkassen- und Giroverband, The
Federal Ministry of Education and Research,
Carl Zeiss, Vodafone, Microsoft, etc.. Lecturer
at Technische Universität Dresden, Universität
Name of the Interviewer
Prof. Dr. Birgit Stark ”SOCIAL MEDIA IS NOT A
Institution
THREAT BUT A REWARD FOR
Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz
Department for Communication COMPANIES!”
Country
Germany
Email Address
birgit.stark@uni-mainz.de
- why should companies care about these
Name of the Interviewee developments?
Ina von Holly
Institution Media change always affects all participating
WE DO communication Berlin communicators - of course that includes
Country businesses. Shying away from new media
Germany will only work during the short initial
Keywords period of transformation. But this initial
Social Media, Interaction, Participation, period has long since passed in the current
Companies, Communication Strategies media change. Corporations that today, in

10. INTERVIEW INA VON HOLLY
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
the year 2012, still believe they can wait First up, we need to be frank: Of course
out this change towards more interaction the worries are not without merit. But
and participation should reconsider their the threat is equally real whether or not
position. Following Paul Watzlawick’s axiom social media are involved. Corporations
„One cannot not communicate”, absence have planned particular crisis scenarios and
from the Web 2.0 is a message of its own: trained their employees to handle critical
If a corporation doesn’t talk to customers inquiries. Companies need to be equally
directly via social media, they wonder what prepared for incidents in the social web.
it has to hide.
logic of communication in the Web 2.0. On
You’ve already mentioned the keywords the whole, I still see the Web 2.0 as a net
are really unraveled in the Web 2.0. Does
that mean that businesses should create a Please explain.
Facebook page as soon as possible?
Companies that were honest before, took
No. For a simple reason: The phase of their customers seriously and pursued
experimentation in the Web 2.0 is over. In the a sustainable long-term strategy can be
beginning, clumsy but charming social media thoroughly happy about the Web 2.0.
presences were smilingly accepted because Negative criticism isn’t the only thing
the good intentions were all that counted. that spreads fast in the web of opinions -
By now, that attitude has changed: Web 2.0 positive examples get a lot of attention as
with all its channels and possibilities should well. In the social networks, everyone can
be a part of the communication strategy and see how a business deals with its customers.
should be used professionally just like any Critical inquiries are always opportunities
other means of communication. A poster to prove that one can do better - that is,
campaign isn’t designed overnight - social to persevere in front of the world and also
media engagement should be planned just potential future customers. In the past,
as carefully. And I should add: Web 2.0 isn’t consumers mainly interacted with sales
only Facebook and Twitter. A business needs personal and the company at a POS (Point of
Sale). If anything bothered her, she needed
nearly endless number of services - and this to complain to the sales person via letter
is a task for which a business should by all or phone. Today, the threshold for direct
means use external experts in order to build contact is so low that I can give instant
its own know-how.
by pivoting equally quickly and aligning
their products or services with consumer
demands. Even so, the preparation and
customers who can voice negative, even external consultancy mentioned earlier is
unwarranted criticism. How do you address a necessary preparation in order not to be
such concerns? overrun by customer feedback.

11. DaWanda, an online marketplace. It consists
can maintain never to have hand any lapse of over 1,600 pictures that the DaWanda
community painted, stitched or even baked.
to criticism. The feedback was fantastic! The movie made
from user generated content won several
That’s true. That’s why it’s all the more awards for successful online communication.
important to build relationships with
customers based on true interactivity and Most importantly: stay authentic! Don’t let
participation rather than merely sending
a coupon at every birthday. Companies Hire experts who identify with your company
need to realize that misconducts carry a and know how to talk to the community, but
vastly enlarged risk of going public when who are at the same time reputable enough
compared to pre-Web 2.0 times. The more not to leak company secrets. In the future,
transparently a company acts and the an ever-increasing number of companies
stronger the relationship with customers, will have such community or social media
the more they will stay loyal and even managers who are able to establish much
defend „their” brand against critics. stronger and much more direct relations
with customers.
How could social media contribute to a
stronger relationship with customers?
companies have mainly tried to polish their
Being able to interact with corporations public perception through CSR. What do
a stronger relationship through social
media. The reason is the same as in human As I said: Any misconduct within a company
relationships - how long can they last carries a much higher risk of being uncovered
quickly through the Web 2.0. If any CSR
with keeping in touch. As an example: small programs only serve as a greenwashing,
stories from the company’s factory offer
unfamiliar insights into the business - for reconsidered. If there’s anything the
example on Facebook. Customers can react community can’t stand, it’s a lack of
with a low-threshold like or a comment credibility.
which the business can in turn extend
thanks for. Both sides keep in touch, get to This doesn’t mean that CSR should be
know each other and the connection gets challenged in every case. Quite to the
stronger. The community wants to be taken contrary: An integrated CSR project that’s
seriously. initiated and realized via social media
in collaboration with consumers can
Could you name any positive examples? strengthen the relationship and bolster
customer loyalty. That entails pro-actively
establishing topics instead of trying to catch

12. INTERVIEW INA VON HOLLY
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
up to the agenda of one’s stakeholders.
CSR in the social web can be a suitable
mechanism for this.
social media?
Social media will continue to evolve into an
everyday communication channel. Companies
will notice customers’ bewilderment if they
next to their phone number.
Another issue will be privacy in the context
of ever more permissive sharing of personal
data. What kinds of data protection laws do
In addition, inspiring social media presences
that work towards sustainable communication
concepts instead of the highest possible
number of fans will move into the limelight.
Deutsche Bahn recently illustrated that with
their Facebook presence - I think their page
there is really good. Their launch time was
very brave: just after the increase in fares
and before winter with its precarious promise
Especially nicely done and innovative for
a business of their size is the idea of using
the Facebook page as a customer service
channel, not as a sales instrument. This
way, negative criticism from customers can
be handled by customer service and other
customers (who refute claims and clarify
issues) alike. That’s exactly how social media
involvement becomes really valuable for the
company and its customers.

13. in Zürich. The Medieninstitut organizes
continuing education in media management
for the Swiss Association of Media. With an
MA in Sociology she started her career in
media research. For ten years she worked as
a journalist and editor mainly as a specialist
Corporate Communications for the Swiss
public broadcaster SRG SSR for seven years.
NEW TOOLS AND SCENES FOR
THE MEDIA PLAY
Every revolution claims to create a new
world. The past drops into the darkness of
an uncivilized time. The same happens in
the actual debates about social media. The
fascination of the technological innovations
is clouding the view for the basics of content
and communications that are the drivers of
media marketing. Media have always been
social media. Communication is socializing.
Name of the Author Every generation uses the tools and platforms
Josefa Haas of their time. The intentions are part of
Institution human condition. Technology extends the
Medieninstitut reach of our communication space to satisfy
Country the curiosity and need to shape through
Switzerland storytelling our identities and communities.

14. ESSAY JOSEFA HAAS
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES
But in the end it has always been about media industry. The media business model
power, love, money, and happiness…the consists in the conversion of community
dramas of the human media play. members into costumers who are ready to
pay for editorial services and in selling an
Swiss Newspapers care from their very attentive public to advertisement. For the
beginning about the activation and analyses of the shifts in media relation to
integration of readers’ wisdom and its audience or readers we must distinguish
opinions: The Tages-Anzeiger launched between the technical impacts and the
stories the media brands share with the
everybody for everybody. The Landbote audience and last but not least, the business
presented himself a «wanderer who wants models.
to make lots of friends and share stories
with them». The Beobachter started with The digital media offer new tools and scenes
organizing a consumer community who for the media theater. The pace of technical
shared critical observation of products innovation profoundly does shake media
and services. Potential buyers asked in the decision makers. Technological change
Schweizer Familie if it was worth to buy comes with structural and cultural change.
life events, call ins, music chosen by the economic outlook force the media industry
listeners. Television organized a voting by to invest carefully. Therefore most of the
asking the audience to switch off and on Swiss editors who work in small markets with
limited resources do not jump into the new
to communicate with the audience has social media world. They cannot afford to
been impressive. Not to forget classic tool invest in editorial staff playing with digital
as letters to the editor and call services for tools just for fun. The return on investments
the public. Today in the newsroom editors must bee guaranteed in a rather short time.
check the comments on the websites and Swiss media engage therefore with caution
social media, yesterday they discussed the in social and digital media.
phone calls and the letter from the public,
Step by step Swiss media establish
From their beginning newspapers, magazines, communication platforms on digital media.
television and radio motivated the audience Legacy medias should carefully build on
to become part of a media brand community. their traditional strengths in orchestrating
This happened on all levels: content, community and respectfully integrate new
comment, recommendation, discussions, communication platforms. It’s worth sticking
services, events and conventions. To achieve to a brand identity and not compromise it
success in media marketing you must build for short-term actions as fashion victims do.
a strong relationship with communication Audience interactivity and participation are
partners. The audience are not just users, but part of the success of print, television and
part of a virtual space of a community. That radio in the analogical century. And will be
is and has been the only way to monetize the for the wise brands in the digital century.

15. Swiss Media are very strong in community newspaper, added a twitter-stream to live
building. In the industry it is crucial reporting on their online-site. But they
keeping an eye on every touch point with didn’t keep it long, because the quality of
the comments was very low.
then target group for commercials, client
for a single copy or subscriber, buyer of Switzerland has a strong tradition as a direct
democracy. Recent surveys show that most
building crosses the borders of editorial of Swiss citizens do not engage on political
content. Engagement means always an debates on social platforms. Not everybody
investment that requires a pay back sooner wants to communicate in public. Most
or later. people prefer sharing information, opinions
and feelings in a private context. Digital
2012 started in Switzerland with a media substitute former communication
scandal. Philipp Hildebrand, chairman tolls like phones, letters and meetings.
of the Swiss National Bank, quit. His Editorial media are only a small part of the
wife invested in 500 000 US-Dollars and consumption in the digital world. From strong
sold them almost two months later with media brands most of the people expect the
a profit of SFr. 60 000. The SNB a few same as from a successful theater: A gripping
days before fixed a higher exchange rate. play, convincing actors, astonishing scenes
Right wing politicians and journalists have and sensitive sounds. Sitting in the chair the
revealed the transaction. The judgment audience wants to be seduced, served, and
of Hildebrand’s acts has been therefore respected. They comment by applauding and
strongly politicized. The Tages-Anzeiger, discuss the presentation elsewhere.
Zurich’s renowned newspaper, asked
the readers on the online-platform, if
Hildebrand had no other choice than to
step down. 17082 voted yes, 6416 no.
http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/dossiers/
This is a very high participation rate on a
journalistic survey in Switzerland. (It’s
expressed takes not the line of most
commentators and decision makers. In this
case, interactivity with the audience pointed
out a different attitude to the scandal from
the media and politics. Comments varied
a lot. The NZZ, the second Zurich based

16. ESSAY JOSEFA HAAS
TRANSFORMING AUDIENCES, TRANSFORMING SOCIETIES

18. ISBN 978-2-9601157-1-0