#SH2015 Day 4: Wider (with @drbexl & KrishK)
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This document summarizes a discussion on expanding expectations for what God can do. It includes quotes about focusing on God's power rather than problems. The discussion centers around whether miracles still occur and if Christians should have a "new normal" with greater anticipation for what God is capable of. Participants debate views on spiritual gifts and the ongoing work of the Holy Spirit versus cessationism. The goal is helping people experience faith in everyday life and recognize spiritual gifts without imposing rules.
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#SH2015 Day 4: Wider (with @drbexl & KrishK)
- 1. CHEW MORE: WIDER Sunday 5th April 2015
- 2. Chew More Wider Dr Bex Lewis Social Media & Online Learning, CODEC Director, Digital Fingerprint T: @drbexl W: drbexl.co.uk Dr Krish Kandiah President, London School of Theology Founder/Director, Home for Good T: @krishk W: krishk.com
- 3. WIDER IN US Dr Bex Lewis
- 4. Transformational Living? He has not allowed Jesus’ gospel to permeate his being. Instead, Jesus has become an add-on when Frank has run out of options on his own, a go-to in times of trouble. Frank is trying to live the “Western dream” and bring Jesus along for the ride as well. (p27)
- 6. John Ortberg “I need to worship because without it I can forget that I have a Big God beside me and live in fear. I need to worship because without it I can forget his calling and begin to live in a spirit of self- preoccupation. I need to worship because without it I lose a sense of wonder and gratitude and plod through life with blinders on. I need worship because my natural tendency is toward self- reliance and stubborn independence.”
- 8. “Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!” Hunter S. Thompson
- 10. Cris Rogers, p.182 The reality is that rather than focusing on the WIDER work of the Holy Spirit we focus on the storm, mountain, or catastrophe before us. We see the problem as bigger than the God of more. This can and will cripple us, as it tells us that God isn’t as powerful as we hoped or dreamed. God isn’t able or capable. May I suggest that we dare to hold our disappointment and cynicism while at the same time having a growing sense of anticipation of something God could be doing?
- 11. Discuss • What has limited your prayers and dreams for future things? • What do you see as the place of miracles in the contemporary world? • Do we need a new ‘normal’ to shift our personal expectations with regard to what God is capable of doing?
- 12. Naturally supernatural Dr Krish Kandiah
- 14. WHAT IS OUR EXPECTATION OF TH BUILD A CASE FOR CESSATIONSIM BUILD A CASE FOR THE ONGOING OPERATION OF THE GIFTS
- 16. OVER REALISED OR UNDER REALISED ESCHATO
- 17. Wider for the world Dr Bex Lewis
- 18. Life’s a Peach…
- 19. Pennie Ley I think we need to look for and experience faith in every walk of life, whether it be personal, or public. If we don't show it, we may be denying it to someone else. For some people sadly we may be the only contact they have with someone of faith. So we need to share our experiences wherever and whenever we can without going over the top and coming off as some religious nutter. (In the nicest possible sense)
- 22. Rogers, p.212 Jesus tells the disciples in Matthew 28: All power [exousia] in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. We are delivered from one authority but given new authority.
- 24. Rogers, p217 It is also a motivating factor for us as believers while we are still living here on earth. We are to look for any opportunity, whether it be an open door to sharing, or initiating a conversation to begin to open a door. As long as there are broken lives, Jesus will be sending His Spirit to bring strength, health, love, wisdom, peace, joy, self-control, faithfulness, and unity
- 25. Discuss • Do you feel empowered, excited or overwhelmed? • How can we get more excited by the ‘spiritual gifts’, and recognise them? • How do we help people to ‘hear in their own language’, rather than insist that they conform to our rules?
- 27. Chew More: Wider Find slides: http://www.slideshare.net/drbexl Dr Bex Lewis Social Media & Online Learning, CODEC Director, Digital Fingerprint T: @drbexl W: drbexl.co.uk Dr Krish Kandiah President, London School of Theology Founder/Director, Home for Good T: @krishk W: krishk.com
Editor's Notes
- Think back to yesterday and the notion that we go along with contemporary culture… how deeply rooted is God in us, and how does the fact that he came to earth, died, and today we celebrate his resurrection (Hallelujah) change how we live? So now, I’m referring to Rob Peabody’s book Citizen … I was struck by Rob’s questioning of what was a ‘successful’ life, as he sought to live a life true to God’s leaning, discern his passions, and to ensure that prayer was accompanied by action, challenging the gospel of individualism – aka ‘Golden Ticket Theology’ (Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory style), which focuses the question on ‘if I died today, where would I go?’, and doesn’t challenge our life on earth too much. Using the character of Frank: [quote] Rob’s emphasis is that yes, Jesus died to save you from something, but also for something. We are looking for transformational living, not just of our own, but also as a part of community (especially those who wouldn’t set foot in a ‘traditional’ church). We are called to reimagine our lives, reposition our values, re-identify who we are, and re-centre on Jesus (p29) – and in this – lose our fear – we should be the biggest risk takers on the planet… but we prefer safety, comfort, routine, etc (p100). We are limited in our imaginations of what is possible … what is we became ‘what if’ people (p178)?!
- Then I wanted to bring in another one of my colleagues (one more to come later), Marika Rose, who’s PhD ‘explored the relationships between the Christian apophatic tradition and contemporary continental philosophy, particularly the work of Slavoj Zizek”’. Triggered by questions set by Cris re the nature of miracles, and whether miracles are something that we can still see today, I wanted to bring Marika in, as she spoke about this on the radio last year…
- Marika’s challenge as to whether we are brave enough to truly stand up for what we believe in, combined with Cris’s challenge re being limited by our fears, there are so many opportunities limited by our fears, and by our (lack of/overactive) imaginations, and by what has happened to us in the past – we hold onto the tangible even if that limits us…. We wonder if God cares, whether we can trust him… This got me thinking about John Ortberg’s book If you want to walk on water, you have to get out of the boat, so as I went looking for something from there, I came across this quote (on Goodreads) which seems to sum up so much of what Cris’s book is focusing on … we get limited by what we think is possible, think it’s all about us (I find this challenging even to say) we need a sense of wonder, gratitude, that God is immesurably more than we can imagine…
- So for this, I wanted to bring in a fellow panellist from a session I was in last re imposter syndrome (explain what that is), and her very encouraging take on this..
- Remember seeing come past one of my comms mediums the other week a version in which someone gets to heaven, and says they have nothing left in them as they have squeezed every little drop out because they have lived life to the full (John 10:10) – but not selfishly! https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/47188-life-should-not-be-a-journey-to-the-grave-with
- How do we prepare for new experiences? I went on 3 guided retreats with Brian Draper before I left behind a well-paying, permanent job to take a 3 year lower paid contract in Durham – and one of the things that Brian got me to do was to walk a labyrinth – the inward walk being towards Durham, and the outward walk praying through the new place of journey – ran into Rachel – we read into this that new places don’t mean losing old friends… and to go forward without fear. If it didn’t pay off long-term (which in my case, it hasn’t – not in the way expected anyway), then his email series had another thing to say: "By learning to fail with grace, perhaps we reveal something far more valuable about humility. Or we may learn to hold more lightly to what we always believed should be the 'end product' of our work, or indeed, of our life. When we're not so attached to the outcomes, we can find the outcomes to be positively different, in the end.”
- If we focus on the failure, the outcomes before us, we allow that to limit us … Can you hold your disappointments with one hand, whilst having a growing sense of anticipation of what you might be praying for (that’s certainly how I’m feeling at the moment!)… Christian faith is not about all the lovely, fluffy (shall we say, Facebook) moments – there are the realities of disappointment, mental health, and rejection to live with (Stephen Cherry, forgiveness) .. And we don’t have to jump straight to “God has a bigger plan” without taking time to acknowledge the grief of time disappointed.
- What can shift your thinking about what is ‘normal’ (idea of worldviews) – what things do you not even think are unusual – e.g. greeting = if I licked your face…!! (and note Marika re shaking head, etc.)
- 24/7 faith, not a ‘spiritual massage session’, sacred//secular divide. It’s not just about us, but about THE WORLD… LICC has always inspired me with this – we’re too keen to put people in hierarchies of holiness… but they now talk about ‘Fruitfulness on the Front Line’ (everyone has someone they can connect with, home, work, etc.) – how do we impact the wider world?
- Last year at Spring Harvest I asked people what they thought about the idea of a public faith … and this was one of the responses … it’s not about us … it’s about others… Cris used the analogy of the ‘fire exit’ as the idea that we should be so on fire for God that we should be running out of the building for others … heard this in another way too – that the world is on fire, and if a friend was physically on fire we would ‘put them out’, not say “well this is my truth, tell me yours”, but they are spiritually (not!) on fire… a challenge, and one I’m not so comfortable with in my nice little relationships first world…
- … what I’ve been working on since 2010, although largely passed it over last year … recognised that the audience is Christians, and we were looking for a space in which Christians could talk about what the digital age has/will mean for us as Christians – are we distinctive, how do we behave online (many not v. well, sadly), and how do we equip ourselves, and the wider church, to share God’s message?
- Also since 2010, been involved in “Inspire, Equip and Connect”
- We’re not required but we are desired to work alongside Jesus We have the same holy sprit that Jesus was given, my colleague Josh, a Biblical studies specialist explains a bit more…
- Say after … Different gifts, one spirit = for everyone (not just the super-spiritual) . No Elite club (think about Francis Chan stepping back from spotlight). We are all different – we need to want them and not list some gifts as more valuable than others.
- 22-23 But what happens when we live God’s way? He brings gifts into our lives, much the same way that fruit appears in an orchard—things like affection for others, exuberance about life, serenity. We develop a willingness to stick with things, a sense of compassion in the heart, and a conviction that a basic holiness permeates things and people. We find ourselves involved in loyal commitments, not needing to force our way in life, able to marshal and direct our energies wisely. 23-24 Legalism is helpless in bringing this about; it only gets in the way. Among those who belong to Christ, everything connected with getting our own way and mindlessly responding to what everyone else calls necessities is killed off for good—crucified. Galatians 5:22-24The Message (MSG) Galatians 5:22-23New International Version (NIV) 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. What do these things look like in our everyday lives – I often ask people to think about what this looks like online…
- 21st C living, we are far too used to being self-sufficient!
- Thanks for spending time with us – any more Q&A - …