1. www.debaty.org
EMIGRATION OF SKILLED LABOUR IS GOOD FOR UKRAINE’S ECONOMY
PUBLIC DEBATE BRIEF
September 22nd, 2011
Teacher’s House, Kiev, Ukraine
The debate ‘Emigration of skilled labour is good for Ukraine’s economy’ was one of the Public Debates series events held
monthly by the Foundation for Effective Governance and Intelligence Squared in Ukraine for over past 2 years. Mustafa
Nayem, a well-known Ukrainian journalist, moderated the event.
A high quality labour force is a necessary condition for economic growth. Therefore the flight of qualified labour abroad is
traditionally considered to be a big problem for developing countries, such as Ukraine, as they lose talented people to
countries offering improved salaries and lifestyles. Yet, in the age of globalization another approach has emerged:
emigration of skilled labor can lead to substantial benefits to their countries of origin as it fosters international cooperation
and spurs internal development.
The panel FOR the motion argued that emigration could promote economic growth if managed accordingly. Diasporas
could become key ambassadors of their home nation, while those who return after spending several years working in
more developed economies would bring new skills, resources and contacts. However, the panel AGAINST the motion
insisted Ukraine currently does not experience ‘circular migration’ with more developed countries: those who leave don’t
want to come back, while distinguished Ukrainians abroad are rarely associated with their native country. Therefore, when
talented people leave it is a net loss for the country. The voting results showed that the panel FOR the motion was
convincing enough to gain additional 13% during the debate, however, that was not enough for the victory.
This series of Public Debates serves as a social forum for discussion of issues important to Ukraine’s economic
development. The project is designed to foster a culture of constructive and substantiated debate, and to assist in forming
public awareness on the key economic challenges facing Ukraine.
Speakers FOR the motion Speakers AGAINST the motion
Paweł Kaczmarczyk Eduard Rubin
Vice-Director Centre of Migration Research CEO
University of Warsaw Telesens International Ltd.
Avetik Chalabyan Ella Libanova
Partner Director
McKinsey&Company Institute for Demography and Social
Studies, National Academy of Sciences of
Ukraine

2. Key Statements
Paweł Kaczmarczyk: “Firstly, in Poland, and I guess in Eduard Rubin: “More and more skilled people leave Ukraine
Ukraine, there is an oversupply of highly skilled labour. and our industries stagnate. But what is worse, a vicious
Secondly, being mobile is a must now, this is why in modern circle is created when there is nobody left to mentor young
debate on migration we use the term ‘brain circulation’, not people, so we will not produce a new generation of highly
‘brain drain’. Thirdly, we can benefit from the outflow of skilled people. Therefore, the key task for the state is to
skills as: those who return will do so with new competences, create conditions to attract people back to the country.”
and those who stay will form diasporas, which will promote
transnational cooperation.”
Avetik Chalabyan: “It’s impossible to stop migration. Ella Libanova: “Emigration of highly skilled workers is bad:
However, what is possible is to attract people back when we lose socially active people, it leads to corruption of
they gain strength, resources and opportunities abroad. genetic material and the overall national identity. We also
Many countries made a development leap with this loose money the state spent to bring them up, and we
strategy. In India IT cluster was developed almost solely by create competitive advantage for other countries. But what
specialists, who returned after spending 10-15 years in is worse, we lose unique talent, which is not to be made up
Silicon Valley. Therefore, if the brain drain is transformed for, such as Sikorsky, for example!”
into brain circulation – it is good for a country.”
Q&A Session with the Audience
Q: “Can emigration spur structural reforms in the country?”
A: Pawel Kaczmarczyk: “This is what happened in South European countries in 50’s and 60’s. Masses of people left Spain and
Italy and it made possible structure reform of labor market. And it is going on in Poland right now as well. Why? Because for
the very first time there was no oversupply of labor. So migration can be a serious driver of structural change.”
Q: Dmitry Devyaterikov, McKinsey&Co: “What do you think about the following statement: even if emigrants do not return it
is good for Ukraine’s economy. For example, Sergey Brin has emigrated, however, now Ukraine can use Google.”
A: Ella Libanova: “For Ukraine it is bad anyway, because he created it in another country which became more competitive.”
A: Pawel Kaczmarczyk: “There is one famous example. Chinese people who live in the US earn as much as the Chinese budget
as it was 10 years ago. But if these people stayed in China they would never achieve such salaries. So it’s completely wrong
thinking.”
A: Avetik Chalabyan: “The key question here is: is a country a set of formal features or it is a community? If it is a community it
could well be located even outside country borders. In Israel, China and Armenia social elites do consider their countries as
communities, and if their communities are globalised it fosters the success of those countries. Our talented people outside our
borders are the best ambassadors of our countries.”
Q: “Ukraine is currently in the process of negotiations over visa free regime with the EU. If visa free regime is adopted, will it
lead to increase in emigration flow from Ukraine.”
A: Ella Libanova: ”No, it won’t because migration depends on the size of receiving market, not ours. Moreover, I am convinced
that if visa free regime is adopted people will come back more often, because they won’t be afraid they could not leave again.”
Voting Results
Further information and the video version of the
debates are available on:
www.debaty.org and www.feg.org.ua
FEG, 23-F Kudryavska str., Kiev, 04053, Ukraine
tel: +380 44 501 41 00
feg@feg.org.ua