DeLucia-Waack, J. Micortraining Associates (2009). Leading groups wi.docx

DeLucia-Waack, J. Micortraining Associates (2009). Leading
groups with adolescents
ACA The Association for Specialists in Group Work Presents:
Leading Groups With Adolescents Featuring: Dr. Janice
Delucia-Waack & Dr. Allen Segrist Moderated by Dr. Arthur
Horne Producer Dr. Amy Nitza Co-Producer Kelly Wolfe-
Stiltner
Andy Horne Hi, I'm Andy Horne from the University of Georgia
and we're here tonight to talk with you about the group work in
schools. We have with us, uh, Dr. Janice Delucia-Waack from
the University of, uh, Buffalo, State University in New York
system and Dr. Allen Segrist from, uh, Purdue University.
Welcome and I'm really looking forward to, to hear in about the
group that you're gonna be working with tonight and tomorrow.
So, could you tell us a little bit about what to expect and what,
if we think of the various types of groups that we could be
thinking about, what type of group would this probably be
called?
01:00 Janice Delucia-Waack This would be a psychoeducational
group.
01:05 Andy Horne Psychoeducational. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack They're gonna be learning new skills,
how to get along with each other, how to manage feelings and
emotions express them.
01:10 Andy Horne Uh hmm. How would this differ from say
other types of groups, uh, we're, we're, we're talking about
teaching specific skills, how would this differ from say a
counseling group or a psychotherapy group or such?
01:20 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, I think most of what's gonna
happen in schools is gonna be psychoeducational. They don't
have the time to do an intensive, of counseling group or therapy
group. (crosstalk)
01:30 Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack And a lot of times the idea is really to do
more preventative kinds of things. So, you know, every 7th

grader could really learn some more communication skills...
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...or some more anger management skills
even with kids who have been identified as at risk, the idea
really would be to teach them skills and help reinforce skills
like communication skills or conflict resolution skills, uhm,
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack rather than trying to get them in and try
to figure out what their problems are or, uhm, look at their
internal issues.
01:55 Andy Horne Uh hmm. If we were to see this developing
in school, what would have taken place ahead of time? Ah, what
are some of the things that you might be doing to set up for this
group?
02:05 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Well, we would
definitely, uhm, have done some kind of need assessment.
02:15 Janice Delucia-Waack So, whether you ask a school
counselors or the teachers or the student themselves or ideally
all of them kind of what kinds of, of, uhm, things would be
helpful.
02:20 Andy Horne Uh hmm. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Uhm, I like to ask students, you know,
what kind of group would you like to be in? Would you like to
be in anger management group? Would you like to be in the
communication skills group? And then also, what group do you
think would be helpful to other students? Uhm, because
sometimes they say, "Well, I don't wanna be in the anger
management group but all my friends could be in one or,
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack or something like that.
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack Uhm, and then we would have definitely

wanted to have sit down with individual students and talk to
them about why they would wanna be in a group? Uhm, how do
they typically participate in a group. Uhm, (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack what kinds of things they would wanna
talk about. What would be they, be comfortable sharing and,
and working on?
02:55 Andy Horne Uh hmm. Is there any type of research, I
mean, both of you have written in the, uh, group literature quite
a bit, is there any research that supports this type of work or is
this, is this something... (crosstalk)
03:05 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm.
Andy Horne ...that, uhm, documented in the literature as a, as a
good approach to use with adolescents?
03:10 Janice Delucia-Waack Oh, yes, yes. I mean, I think,
theoretically, uhm, you know, people have made statements like
groups are other treatment of choice. Uhm, most of, of, of
adolescents, uhm, problems develop from interpersonal
relationships even if they're depressed or anxiety comes from
something that's happening in school or with their peers or with
their family. And so, so, it makes sense to intervene in a
group... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...in that way but there is also a lot of
literature out there that shows that very specific
psychoeductional groups, uhm, are effective. They're, they're
better than no treatment at all. A lot of times they work at least
as well as if not even better than individual counseling kinds of
things. And I think it make sense if, if kids are having trouble
in relationships, it doesn't make sense to teach them in a group
how to relate differently.
Janice Delucia-Waack And they're not gonna listen to an adult I
think that's the piece... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack for adolescents that's so powerful is I can

say it as an adult and I go, "Oh, you're an adult I'm not gonna
listen to you." But when one of their fellow peers says to them,
"I like it when you do that," or if you talk to me differently
I'd... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...hear you differently.
Andy Horne Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack It has that value that it doesn't have from
an adult.
04:20 Andy Horne Uh hmm, uh hmm. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Uhm.
Allen Segrist And I think it provides in the psychoeducational
sense, the structure that they can make use of, uh, uh, in, in, in
(inaudible ) ways on their parts of further experiences that they
have.
Allen Segrist Ah, so, I think, uh, you know, (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist it's, it's, uh, input that has an intellectual quality
to it and the joint benefit of experiencing that with some other
young people and then being able to, themselves, follow
through to make the transfer to other life experiences.
04:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Right, right. (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack And that's one of the things that we'll try
to do as we wrap up with them is really get them to think about,
okay, what worked for you in this group? Some of you have
different learning styles.
Janice Delucia-Waack For some of you maybe writing the stuff
down was a cognitive organizer. For some of you saying it out
loud, for some of you watching somebody else do it. What was
your learning style? Okay. Now, how you gonna do that later
on? Uhm, (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack I mean, I always say to the kids, "Okay,

what felt best? Who did you connect with? Who was
comfortable talking with? Okay, now, who do you have in your
real life?"
Janice Delucia-Waack Is it a friend, is it a parent, is it a
teacher? Who is that person that you can bounce those ideas of
off. So, there's almost like a planning for the future that I think
needs to happen at the very end.
Janice Delucia-Waack It's not enough that you say, "Oh, this
was really felt good and we did a, the script was really nice."
No, no, no. How are you gonna be different and I, and I think
the more they plan, the more they, there's something about
saying that out loud... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...that makes that action happen easier.
05:50 Andy Horne And there's a group commitment that will
happen. I mean, (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Exactly.
Andy Horne if you do it in a group, you've committed to your,
your fellow members. (crosstalk)
05:55 Janice Delucia-Waack Right.
Andy Horne Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Right.
Andy Horne Uh hmm. I, you, you've made a comment that
probably 80 percent of the group work should be done before
the group begins. That's when... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...you're doing the planning, the thinking, the
preparing. As we look at this group that's about to begin and to
develop and enfold, what have you done in, in advance to get
ready for it?
06:10 Janice Delucia-Waack One is in a sense of when you're
planning a psychoeducational group, that idea of packing your
toolbox.

Janice Delucia-Waack And so, what I'm doing is I'm putting all
these different tools in there so we have some things to look at
self-esteem, communication skills but we don't unpacked that
toolbox until the members start to talk about what they, they
wanna do.
06:30 Andy Horne Uh hmm, uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack My, my other metaphor as I think about
it is, is the image of a lacrosse game in the sense that in, in, uh,
lacrosse team practices all kinds of different place in practice.
But they don't call the play till the person with the ball is
running down the field.
Janice Delucia-Waack And then, he's crawling out to the team
members and I see it that same way. When we start to see what's
happening in the group, then we're gonna call the play. So, we
might look at irrational beliefs, we might look at self talk, we
might start to look it okay, what's this about your body image,
and what do... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack you telling yourself that why do you have
to only weigh 100 pounds and look this way or, or those kinds
of things. And so, depending on where the group members go,
that's where, what, that's what play we're gonna call.
Allen Segrist And I think, you know, that, those are the
examples of the, of the contents(ph) but then you, you deal with
it. You, you process how that, uh, came to the surface, uh, how
it's relating to, uh, fields to be understood, or challenged by
others.
Allen Segrist And, you know, you follow that through then to,
you know, get a sense of completion. It isn't to say... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist ...well, we've done these 10 steps in the rows
necessarily but probably you've covered all 10 steps and you
say, (crosstalk)

Allen Segrist " Ah, it feels good. It's taken... (crosstalk)
07:45 Andy Horne Yeah.
Allen Segrist ...care of." (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm.
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack But that's the key piece. It's once you
say, "Okay, we're gonna do, uhm, a self-esteem group." Then,
you've gotta find out where your group members are having
trouble around self-esteem.
Janice Delucia-Waack Is it not being realistic? Is it irrational
beliefs? I have to be perfect, you know, I have to look like a
model. Where, where they get in trouble and then your activities
have to be designed to, to work with that. And I think that's
where the, the piece and, and maybe I can talk about this a little
bit is where we tend to go on the extreme either we over plan
and, "Okay, we have to do these 15 activities." (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Or you come in with adolescence and you
say, uhm, you know, well, we're just gonna see where they
wanna go and then there's no structure.
Janice Delucia-Waack And I think you have to have that balance
of we have a plan.
Janice Delucia-Waack But when this, when the group members
get into something that's really, really good stuff that they're
gonna learn from at the teachable moment, we're not gonna
adhere to our plan 'coz okay we were gonna spend 10 minutes
on this, we're gonna stay with this. No, we're gonna stay with
them till they get something that's useful from it.
08:45 Andy Horne Uh hmm. Yeah.
Allen Segrist I'm happy at sometimes working with it that way.
08:50 Andy Horne Yeah.
Allen Segrist Uhm, I think sometimes I have done things for 20

minutes or 10 hours but, uh, it's like playing it in accordion, we
stretched that out, we squeezed that up, you know. (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist But sometimes that, when a group itself or
individuals other group begin themselves to take that leadership
assertion for the things that they will need, they even generate
some of their, their own activities... (crosstalk)
09:10 Andy Horne Yeah. Uh hmm. (crosstalk)
09:15 Allen Segrist ...for others to share it.
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist So, you know, that's... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist ...some of your meth, I think some of your best
evidence in... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist a qualitative sense.
09:20 Janice Delucia-Waack Yeah.
Andy Horne I, I think it's gonna be very interesting to watch the
process happen to say, " Okay, let's see. We're starting with a
bit of a structure here. Let's see where it goes, what, what it
leads to and what the outcome is." This is gonna... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...be a lot of fun.
Andy Horne What else we need to say about the group before
we get started?
09:35 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, I, I like to, I think the one
thing that's gonna be a little bit different is I truly like to think
about group sessions with structure... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...in a sense that you have an opening
where you kind of focus the group members, you kinda remind
them of what you talked about or what you're gonna talk about
that day. If they had any homework, they're gonna check in.
Then, you... (crosstalk)

Janice Delucia-Waack ...have that working piece where you
teach that new skill or you practiced that new skill or you look
at something. And then, there was always that, that closing
which for me is, "Okay, what did you learn? How did you learn
it? What you gonna do with it?"
10:05 Andy Horne Yup. How easy(ph). (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Now, we don't have that luxury of weeks
in between.
Janice Delucia-Waack So, we're not, you're not gonna see as
much of that full session. You're gonna see lots of working and
then you're gonna see that processing of what did you learn,
how you gonna use it, but we're... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...not gonna be able to go back and check
in and see because we're doing this over the course of a day and
a half. And I think that's... (crosstalk)
10:25 Andy Horne Right.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...the different piece in there, uhm.
10:30 Andy Horne Well, I'm looking forward to see in the group
enfold.
Janice Delucia-Waack Oh, I am too.
10:35 Andy Horne So.
[sil.]
Janice Delucia-Waack Welcome to group. Thank you all for
coming. Uhm, we have tonight and then we have all day
tomorrow, uhm, to work together as a group. And so, what we'd
like to do tonight is just get started in terms of talking a little
bit about how group is gonna work, uhm, what things we might
wanna do and see if you have any questions in those kinds of
things. So, the very first thing we probably should do is at least
introduce ourselves, uhm, and so we know what to call each
other and, and we know who each other is. Uhm, and what I'd
like to do is to, uhm, I know somebody who may know each
other a little bit or at least, you know, faces, you may know

some of the names but it's really gonna be important that we
know each others names. And so, I'd like to do what I think is a
kind of a funny activity, uhm, which is "call the names"
activity. And what we wanna ask everybody to do is go around
and introduce themselves what your name, how did you get your
name, uhm, what would you like to be called if you wanna be
called something different than, than your given name, uhm, and
then also, uhm, do you like your name and if you don't like your
name what would you, uhm, if you were gonna change it what,
what would you change it to.
11:45 Haley Cordes Uhm, my name is Haley and I'm not really
quite sure how I got my name. I guess my parents just like it
and both agreed on it. So, uhm, I like my name because, uhm,
it's not really popular at least in my age group. So, I never like
thought about what I'd wanted to be if I changed it. So, I like it.
12:05 Drew Edmondson Uhm, my name is Drew and, uh, I'd
really like my name 'coz it's different. It's not Andrew like a lot
of people think it is, uhm, but the way I got my name, my last
name is really long. So, my mom like didn't wanna name me a
long first name or anything 'coz she didn't like that be
(inaudible ) in kindergarten. (laughing) So, she just named me
Drew and I like it a lot. I wouldn't change it for anything.
12:35 Alright, my name is Angela, uhm, my mom wanted a
name that she can shortened like how we were named(ph) and
have a nickname (inaudible ). So, that is the thought(ph). I like
my name I don't really think about changing it but I really like
propose to be called Cassie and so on and so off. (crosstalk)
12:55 (inaudible )
12:56 Janice Delucia-Waack And what would you like us to call
you?
Ah, Cassie is fine. It doesn't really bothered me. I had called
both things, so.
13:00 Andrea Tordi My name is Andrea. Uhm, originally my
grandma was hoping my mom , my dad pick out names and she
went Michelle but my mom didn't want that for my first name
since my brother was gonna be an Alex. Uhm, so Miche,

Michelle is my middle name now and my first name is Andrea,
obviously, and I really like my name. I've gotten, I don't know
how but people used to write my name to Andre, Angie or Ange,
and Annie but Andrea is just fine and so I really like it.
13:30 Katie Buschman My name is Katie. Uhm, my dad
(inaudible ) know it. I got his name with me 'coz, uhm, he said
Katie 'coz, I guess that's part of their name back then or
something but a lot of people have it. It's an okay name but ever
since I was little I would love the name Ashley, I don't know
why but if I can change my name, it'll be Ashley.
13:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay.
13:55 Jessica Hall My name is Jessica. Uhm, I got it because my
dad have name for J's and they are all Jim, Joe, Jonathan
decided on Jessica to mention as we're actually family. And I
like my name. I prefer Jessica because in some place and
everyone in my family likes Jessie so much better and that's like
on my birthday cards, on my name tags, on everything. If, yeah,
it's just like Jessie for some reason I don't know why.
14:20 Nathan West My name is Nathan and I have no idea why
my parents named me that but my brother's name is Matthew so
he's came from the Bible but I think mine didn't, but (laughing)
I was, I was trying to figure out where it came from but it
comes from something and, uhm, uh, my dad said he wished to
had started name with me an M so then he calls like M & M's
just sort of thing.
14:45 Alright.
Nathan West And Nathan is like okay but a lot of people have a
name Nathan and I wished they would have name me Daniel and
that would have been from the Bible but I just think that's
you're making, most people have a name it there and just sorted
to Nathan but I believe they (inaudible ) Daniel but this is my
nameplate and you could call me Nathan. (laughing)
15:01 Cassandra Ellis My name is Cass Ellis and I don't know
where my parents got it. They decided to combine their names.
Uhm, (laughing) if I could change that I make it Cass and then
Ellis so I can have a middle name 'coz I don't have a middle

name but so that's if I change it.
15:20 Sarah Boeckmann My name is Sarah. Uhm, I don't know
where my parents came up with my name. My mom just called
me that ever since she was like in 5th or 6th grade she really
liked the name Sarah. So, she named me Sarah and I like my
name, okay, 'coz maybe I don't change it just so many people
are named Sarah, not a lot but sometimes like whenever I hear
the name I turn around and if it's not me then I feel really dumb
(laughing) but, uhm, I guess I like my name okay, I don't know
what have to change it too so Sarah works for me.
15:55 Ronae Biddle My name's Ronae and, uhm, I guess both,
both my parents names start with a R so they wanna name me
something that starts with a R. Uhm, and they spell it weird, it's
not right and e, even like the proper spelling it's R-O-N-A-E
and they spelled it that way because my grandpa's name is Ron
and my mom's name is Veronica. So, they decided to spell it
like that and most people can't pronounce it when I first, I've
heard so many different variations (laughs) I don't know but,
uhm, I like my name though. I like, I like having different
spelling because it's original and I love my name, I won't
change it. So.
16:30 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, what was it, what was it like
to do that right now? Uhm, what were you thinking as I asked
you to share that? Uhm.
16:40 Nathan West I was thinking I have no idea where my
parents got it.
16:45 Yeah. It's just okay. (laughing)
Nathan West 'Coz it's still don't get the sound good.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, I hear some kind of uniqueness.
This is my name, (crosstalk)
16:50 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack I like to personalize it to some extent or
it represents me.
16:55 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack And I think that's, that's important. And I
think that's part of, uhm, kind of what we wanna do in group,

uhm, is, is kind of help you see who you are, uhm, as a person
and then also see who you are in connection to other people 'coz
I think that's what we live in our life is who are we as unique
individuals but we relate to other people and how do we have
these relationships, how you stay connected to people but also
for your own person, uhm, and, and be true to yourself. And so,
uhm, we've got, we're to use this, uhm, picture for some
activities that we're gonna do tomorrow but what I wanna do is
to share briefly with you some of the things that we want, uhm,
to put forth these goals for this kind of group. And, and I see
this as, uhm, even if we were doing a very specific kind of
group, we did an anger management group or communication
skills group or we even focused on, uhm, anxiety or depression
or those kinds of things that some of our goals are gonna be
similar. No matter what we're doing, we're gonna be thinking
about communication, we're gonna be thinking about problem
solving, talking about our feelings, sometimes even identifying
it. I think sometimes we just do things without thinking about
what we're feeling and, and we don't make that connection
(inaudible ). These are some of the kinds of things that we're
gonna be, uhm, talking about and that'll be our general goals.
Uhm, you, we're gonna try to really, uhm, focus them and target
them to the kinds of things that you wanna talk about
specifically but that's gonna be kind of underlying. If that's
what we're gonna do, how we will gonna do this? Uh, real key
issue is safety. Uhm, how we will gonna fit is to help you to
feel safe, how we're gonna help you to feel comfortable because
one of the things that we really wanna do is ask you to try out
some new behaviors. To think a little bit differently, maybe feel
differently, take a few risks in that way to see if you can mend
some changes. So, how we will gonna do that over the course
of, of the next day and a half? Uhm, what do we need to do,
uhm, as a group? I like to use the analogy of a swimming pool.
Uhm, when you go into a, uh, to, uh, a swimming pool, what's
always posted on the wall?
18:55 No diving.

19:00 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay, well what kind of, but, but a
set of rules right?
Drew Edmondson Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Let's talk about why are there
rules in the swimming pool?
19:05 Safety.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Okay. Why would we need rules
here in the group then?
19:10 Safety.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. (laughing) If it's, uh, it's a little
different, nobody's gonna drown here, right? (laughing) Okay.
But what do we, I, if you think about it we probably can go
through some of those rules and almost translate them. What
would be, what would be the translation of no diving?
19:25 Haley Cordes I don't what the translation would be but I
can think of like rules.
19:30 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Sure.
Haley Cordes Like, uhm, to like that everyone speak don't like
talk with people. Other people are talking... (crosstalk)
Haley Cordes ...to keep things in the group to like people aren't
worried about you're gonna go, call a bunch of people what
you've talked about, you know.
Haley Cordes Kind of feel safe within your group.
19:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. That you make two
important points. Let me back up for one, that one person
talking at a time. I think about that as one person on a diving
board at a time. Right? And so, we really do want that
everybody have a chance. Okay. The second one is real, really
probably even a more important rule if, and it should not
accompany (inaudible ).
20:07 Cassandra Ellis They know diving would mean like don't
get, don't like over put too many details and they're like, to
keep it basic.

Cassandra Ellis But like, you mean, about everybody have a
turn talking and like (inaudible ).
20:24 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay, okay. Or else it might be
don't go too deep, I have thought about that but, uhm,
recognizing that we have so many hours together... (crosstalk)
20:30 Cassandra Ellis Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...and so, we want to, when we set goals
tomorrow and talk about what you want to accomplish in this
group we wanna, we wanna accomplish something that you
have, you can do in certain(ph) eight(ph) hours in the time that
we have. Uhm, so, you don't wanna assume I'm gonna make all
these big life changes. Uh hmm. Okay. But. (crosstalk)
20:50 Allen Segrist Well, I don't wanna think about getting all
the shallow into. You know, (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist if, if, (crosstalk)
20:55 Janice Delucia-Waack Great.
Allen Segrist you just kind of live your life at the shallow end
of the pool, uh, that is what the whole pool is about.
21:00 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm, uh hmm. And Allen, I
can be the lifeguards.
21:05 Allen Segrist Yeah, okay. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack So, we can kind of maybe (inaudible ) to
move a little a bit out in the shallow (coughs) and give you
some instruction, uhm, teaches some skills, teaches some of the
things that you might wanna do as you move towards. Do we
need to have a little bit more co, about confidentiality? I think
that's really important. You guys go to school with each other.
Allen and I are gonna leave and we may not see you again, uhm,
but you guys are gonna run into each other in the hallways.
21:30 Haley Cordes Uhm, the thing I like about groups is that,
uhm, (clears throat) like I don't see like these people like
everyday because in high school you just came and see
everybody and it's cool to hang out with people that you don't
normally to be with. Like... (crosstalk)

Haley Cordes ...when I could see people and so it's cool to have
like I know stuff about Jessica but I don't wanna go and like
share it. You know what I mean? Like I know her but I don't
have to hang out with her and it's cool that I... (crosstalk)
22:00 Jessica Hall (inaudible ). (laughing)
22:03 Haley Cordes ...oh, I mean, I don't see you everyday to be
your friend because of a group and that like she can trust me
and I can trust her kind of thing, (crosstalk)
Hailey Cordes you know.
Janice Delucia-Waack And there is, there is that, that two sides
of being a group with people that you're not good friends with.
One of them is we can probably get some honest feedback, uhm,
because you don't have to see each other everyday in the
hallway. And so, when you say, you know, if I said this to you,
how would this make you feel? You all might be able to be a
little bit honest than with your best friend because you might
hurt that person's feeling and then you have to deal with that.
So, there is that honesty and that, that we're gonna encourage.
The other piece of that though is you gotta think about what you
take out of this group in the sense of, uhm, you don't wanna go
back and tell your friends, "Well, I was in group with Nathan
and he talked about these things." Uhm, and so, what, what I
think I'm gonna ask you is, uhm, we want you to talk about this
group experience, we want you to, to talk about what it was
like, what was helpful, what your light. But talk about what you
learned and talked about what was helpful to you, you know.
23:00 Allen Segrist One thing I like in that point too I have see,
I think I can always be honest in, in a particularly, particular
thing I'm saying but I can choose that if we have opened this
how much, how much of me I'm really sharing in such a
statement and I might not choose to go very deep or I might
choose trusting myself, trusting another person to really, that it
all go, you know. Uhm, and it's okay, uhm, because I chose to
do that.
23:30 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, having said that we wanna

get up and move around.
23:35 Allen Segrist We had some transition? Alright. Uhm,
(crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Well, uhm, what I like you to do like she
suggested is have you stand up on your feet but we need to
kinda get the chairs back out of the road. I'd, I like about this
more space at least that we have but without the chairs. So,
what I'd, what I'm asking you to do now that you're standing on
your feet is, uh, just kinda think of this as space that you can
move in and first I'd like the roses to go over here and the tulips
to go over here.
24:05 Hmm.
24:10 Allen Segrist The roses can stand over here and the tulips
can stand over here.
Cassandra Ellis Do you like them to think of it?
Allen Segrist I don't question(ph). (laughing)
24:15 (inaudible )
24:16 Janice Delucia-Waack I feel rose who are with tulips.
(crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Make, make a move toward one group or the
other... (crosstalk)
24:20 Drew Edmondson I'll be with rose.
Allen Segrist ...and see what it, see what it makes you think
about or are you at. (crosstalk)
(inaudible ). (crosstalk)
24:23 Janice Delucia-Waack Roses are (inaudible ).
24:24 Allen Segrist Here's the roses, here are the tulips.
24:25 Drew Edmondson Wait, well, well, supposed I like the
rose.
Allen Segrist Roses?
Cassandra Ellis Rose (inaudible ). (crosstalk)
24:29 Drew Edmondson Oh, oh, where?
24:30 Cassandra Ellis Oh.
Janice Delucia-Waack Roses. (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Oh, roses are here, tulips are here. (laughs)

Drew Edmondson I'm a rose.
(inaudible )
24:33 Allen Segrist We're now having none so, is there any
meaning you can attach to this?
24:35 There's no good(ph).
Cassandra Ellis Oh, yeah.
I think we're good. (crosstalk)
24:40 Allen Segrist The different... (crosstalk)
Nathan West (inaudible ).
24:41 Allen Segrist ...color. (crosstalk)
Nathan West (inaudible ) like roses so I like to live different.
(crosstalk)
24:42 Yeah.
Nathan West I think that way. (crosstalk)
Roses are. (crosstalk)
24:45 Allen Segrist So, you're, you're, you're thinking against
the move to be a rose or think like roses. Colorful.
24:50 Cassandra Ellis Yeah.
I just think the roses are ugly. (laughing) Like not(ph) of you.
(laughing)
24:55 Allen Segrist How about the thorns?
25:00 Yeah, they do have thorn. (crosstalk)
Yeah, they do have thorns. (laughs)
(inaudible ).
25:04 Allen Segrist But no, sometimes I've heard people over
here talking about their thorns like they really love them.
25:05 They don't like 'em. (laughs)
25:10 Allen Segrist Do you have thorns? Oh, well, let, don't get
too close or what about roses or the, what your choice with
roses?
25:20 Sarah Boeckmann Okay.
Allen Segrist Okay. (laughs)
Haley Cordes Classic.
25:25 Sarah Boeckmann Uh hmm. (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Classic.
Sarah Boeckmann Romantic. (laughs)

Allen Segrist There.
Drew Edmondson There's a lot of different meanings but I know
my guess.
25:30 Allen Segrist Okay. Now, do you hear some differences
and how we are sad(ph) to use to think about it? What would
you say? 'Coz there's, roses are so popular whatever you say
you might there. (crosstalk)
25:40 Nathan West Yeah, that's what I think of rose.
Yeah.
Allen Segrist Yeah, okay. So, there might be something that
comes more and more that has some sense. Okay, blue-green
over here, red-orange.
25:50 Whatever(ph).
(inaudible ) I don't know. (crosstalk)
25:52 Blue-green.
Blue-green. (crosstalk)
(inaudible ), blue-green, I don't know.
25:55 Allen Segrist (laughing) Okay, any ideas about your
choices with?
26:00 Nathan West I think of red and orange is just like fire and
like... (crosstalk)
26:05 Yeah.
Nathan West ...fire(ph). (laughing) And blue-green is like
peaceful, bitchy twin.
Allen Segrist Alright. This might get a little more complicated.
Ah, kite of the, diamond-shaped kite, tail, wind, string.
26:15 Uh-huh.
26:20 Allen Segrist Kite, kite, tail, wind, string.
26:25 That's right.
Nathan West I'm going to.
Allen Segrist Were you missing, right? (laughing) What's it like
to be the string then?
26:30 Nathan West 'Coz in like you connected to everything.
You're with the kite, you're with the wind, and you're with the
tail. So, like... (crosstalk)
26:35 Allen Segrist Okay.

Nathan West ...you can kinda go with everything or you can fall
from photograph(ph). (laughing) I'm sure you're gonna float.
26:40 Allen Segrist But you are connected here, you're the
connector though.
26:45 Nathan West We have connections.
Allen Segrist Yeah.
(inaudible )
26:48 Allen Segrist How about the tail?
Andrea Tordi I liked it 'coz it kind of ask more, I mean, it adds
my personality to the kite and then the kite could be like just a
plain little kite or something with a pretty tail but it's, kinda(ph)
own personality... (crosstalk)
26:55 Allen Segrist Uh hmm.
Andrea Tordi ... for you.
27:00 Allen Segrist How about kite?
Everybody looks at the kite. (laughing)
Haley Cordes I was thinking more of laid back just like kind of
thing, you know.
27:05 Allen Segrist Just driving by the wind, yeah? (crosstalk)
27:10 Haley Cordes Yeah.
Allen Segrist Yeah.
(inaudible ) (crosstalk)
27:11 Haley Cordes Let it do it for you. (laughs)
Sarah Boeckmann Yeah.
Allen Segrist Ah, these are windier group the most, do you
think, uh. (crosstalk)
27:15 Drew Edmondson Yeah.
Allen Segrist Alright, here's, uh, here's another one, uh, serious,
fun-loving, casual, formal. You're fun-loving, how's fun-loving?
27:25 Andrea Tordi Optimistic.
Haley Cordes Yeah.
27:30 Allen Segrist Optimistic. (crosstalk)
Spontaneous, adventurous.
Haley Cordes Yeah. (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Uh hmm.
Haley Cordes Outgoing another thing.

Allen Segrist So, you can be any of these other things...
(crosstalk)
27:35 Haley Cordes Just like fun.
Allen Segrist ... you wanna be if you have to.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh hmm.
Yeah. (crosstalk)
Yeah.
Allen Segrist Ah, okay. (crosstalk)
Haley Cordes Too serious is not like going to have fun but
actually... (crosstalk)
27:40 Haley Cordes fun, you know. Happy. (crosstalk)
Nathan West But simply if you need to be serious, too.
Haley Cordes Yeah. (crosstalk)
Uh hmm.
Haley Cordes Like if you're so serious you miss a lot of fun.
(crosstalk)
27:45 Nathan West Somebody, you are all alone.
Yeah, really.
Allen Segrist Well, this is another way and has got four parts
and sometimes I was getting little abstract I'm afraid. Authority.
I am authority, I want authority, I use authority, I avoid
authority.
28:00 Drew Edmondson It depends on the situation.
Allen Segrist Yeah, I think.
Yeah.
28:05 Uh hmm. (crosstalk)
Oh, what's this some?
Drew Edmondson 'Cause it's a lot.
Allen Segrist I, I am authority.
Janice Delucia-Waack Keep that thought, Drew.
Allen Segrist I am authority.
Janice Delucia-Waack Keep that thought, that's a good thought.

28:10 I am, I want, I use, I avoid.
Drew Edmondson (inaudible ) certain situation, I avoid.
28:12 I am, I want.
I.
Allen Segrist I am authority. What's it like to, for her to choose
this? I'm not asking you to say that but. (crosstalk)
28:20 Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist What would, what would that be for, any of you to
have chosen this?
28:25 She has one responsibility.
I think she's authority than the, a lot of things that she possibly
cover.
28:30 Allen Segrist Yeah. (crosstalk)
Nathan West There's a lot of pressure on her, too.
Yeah.
Nathan West Like the way you're saying that.
28:35 Allen Segrist Okay. Well, how about you with I want
authority? (inaudible ). (laughing)
28:42 Jessica Hall I didn't make.
Ronae Biddle (inaudible ) (laughs) Uhm, (clears throat) I don't
know. I, I guess I like to have rules to follow. I don't like, I
don't, I don't know.
28:50 Allen Segrist Say here, you're searching for some
authority to help you. (crosstalk)
28:55 Ronae Biddle Okay. I don't know, I like organizations so
I don't like it... (crosstalk)
29:00 Allen Segrist Okay.
... to be like chaotic, like you know. (crosstalk)
29:05 Allen Segrist And you make the organization happen?
Ronae Biddle Usually.
Ronae Biddle I would like I was to be in between these two.
29:10 Allen Segrist Well, I use authority was it, now, does that
have? (crosstalk)
Nathan West I thought of guys where it was like you use it.
29:15 I know. (crosstalk)

Drew Edmondson You could use authority to like, I don't know
how you could use that on yourself but you can use that on
yourself. And, uh, like you could use it on another people like
being a leader on a team or like, uh, uh, cop in, you know, in
the city or something.
Drew Edmondson Show leadership and so it goes along with the
leader thing I think too.
Allen Segrist Now, over here we have those who say I avoid
authority.
29:35 You know like I thought this is like use your own
authority instead of like having somebody else like 'coz I don't
know. Uhm, I think I'm pretty good on making decisions and
stuff.
29:45 Cassandra Ellis Ah, I'm kinda at the middle of all these.
Sarah Boeckmann Yeah.
29:50 Allen Segrist Well, right, that's, yeah there's a piece for
me and everyone on that positions.
Uh hmm. (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson Yes, but.
Guess, what do you mean?
29:55 Drew Edmondson But you gotta choose what you're
doing... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Drew Edmondson ... if it's right.
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, I think what you said earlier Drew
was it depends on the situation, and that's the piece. You don't
wanna say, (crosstalk)
30:00 Janice Delucia-Waack "I always, I want authority and I
want somebody to tell me what to do." There are times when
maybe you do wanna seek advice of authority. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack And there's other times when you gotta
use what's inside you to make that decision or you wanna just

stay away from it and you've got to make it dependent on a
situation.
30:15 Allen Segrist Alright, here's the center spot and, uh, if
you would call that how near, how far are you in relationship to
this center for the how have things have been learned(ph) for
you within the group today.
30:30 Janice Delucia-Waack So, how connected is that we will?
(crosstalk)
Allen Segrist How connected in the, and here's the center things
and, uh, you know, do you feel near, do you feel far, you, really
I did it some of these (inaudible ).
30:41 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh-huh.
Allen Segrist (laughs) These are what pass the door and close
it?
30:45 Nathan West I'm not all the way up there.
Drew Edmondson I'm moving around.
Allen Segrist Okay. (crosstalk)
Haley Cordes I'll open the door. (laugh)
Allen Segrist (inaudible ).
30:49 Drew Edmondson I'm really (inaudible ) situations again.
Drew Edmondson On the move like sometimes I'm up here and
then I'm, I'm back here. (crosstalk)
30:55 Allen Segrist Okay. (crosstalk)
Cassandra Ellis Okay.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, you know, let me, let me ask
another question is go back to where you were when you came
in, when you first, when we first set... (crosstalk)
31:00 Allen Segrist Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...a circle tonight. Where do you think
you were? (crosstalk)
31:05 Allen Segrist In another, in another position.
(inaudible ) chair. Great, yeah.
31:07 Nathan West This is like, you know, some (inaudible ).
31:10 Janice Delucia-Waack So, we all seem to move quite a
bit. Some more than others but... (crosstalk)

31:15 Allen Segrist Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...how do we do that? What happened?
What did you notice? What made you feel that you can move a
little bit?
31:20 Drew Edmondson I got more comfortable with like you
guys like, like to. (crosstalk)
31:25 Uh hmm. Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Can you be a little more specific Drew
with the certain things that we said or things that we did, what,
what were you checkin' out, what helped you feel a little bit
better?
31:35 Drew Edmondson Well, just different, just getting
comfortable like how you guys are getting run this and how
we're gonna like respond to questions and... (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson ...am I gonna sound stupid or somethin'.
Just... (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson ...stuff like that.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Okay.
Haley Cordes 'Coz everybody opening up, you know. (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Yeah.
Drew Edmondson Like the whole lens of the camera thing that
I'd said earlier just didn't more of new clothes.
31:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm, uh hmm. And all of you
are taking some risks and, you know, and, and just trying out
some new behaviors in that, some of these questions were kinda
tough to figure out where you gonna go, you know, or to kind of
think about, "Hey, what am I gonna share and what am I gonna
say? How am I gonna make sense of this?" And you all were
doing that.
32:10 Janice Delucia-Waack So, welcome everybody. Thanks
for coming. It's good to see you I know it's a little early this
morning. Uhm, what I wanna do is just checkin' with people and
see if you have any comments about what we did last night, any

thoughts, anything that stands out particularly before we move
on?
32:25 Andrea Tordi One thing that I thought yesterday was that
(inaudible ) my friends are usually listener but when we're
through but, you do both. You talk and we listens and we get to
experience both sides of the story.
32:40 Janice Delucia-Waack What are the things that we talked
about a lot of times when we talk with counselors is why groups
work, uhm, differently than individual counseling and, and
that's that piece is in individual counseling, you always feel like
you're the one who's being helped. In a group, you get to learn
how to help people as well as be helped and so it's that, uhm,
reciprocity that works. Uh hmm. Well, we did some things to
kinda get you to start to think last night. Uhm, you know, we
had those, those exercises where you moved around and you had
to think about who you were and those kinds of things. What,
what we wanna try to do in group is, is a lot less kind of just
talk about things and use metaphors and use stories and use
creative arts and those kinds of things to, to get you involved,
to make it a little bit more fun but I also think that metaphors
and stories kinda give you a way to think about things
sometimes, uhm, that are a little bit better than else to saying
let's try this or whatever. So, I wanna read you something, uhm,
it's a metaphor about a garden. Uhm, and I want you to just to
listen to it and see what comes into your mind as I'm talking
and reading and then we'll, we'll kinda go from there. It's called
Pulling Weeds and Planting Flowers. Let's imagine it's a nice
spring day and you wanna start a garden. You go out and you
see that there are a lot of weeds. You put on your old
comfortable clothes, get on some gardening gloves, kneel down
and start pulling out those weeds. Soon, all those weeds are
gone and you feel pleasantly tired but proud about what you've
done. There's that old garden full of, full of weeds with the
good dirt clearly visible again. So, you take off your gloves,
you walk into the house, you sit down and you tell yourself
what a nice garden you have. What's wrong with this picture?

Of course, you say you have to plant some flowers. Well,
groups are more than pulling up weeds and trying to get rid of
the rocks and twigs that are covering up the good earth. It
means planting flowers not just pulling up weeds. The whole
purpose of removing yourself to fitting patterns of behavior,
recognizing what hasn't worked is to start cultivating thoughts
and behaviors that produce flowers. Get, getting rid of the
problem areas is only the first step to growth and development.
The real purpose of group is to help you get on with your life,
to produce something good and worthwhile to grow flowers or
fruit. Effective gardening does not stop after pulling out weeds.
Interestingly, the old Greek words for peace are reign does not
mean only absence of war, it means a time of productivity, of
fertility, of tranquility. So, what do you think the message of
that was? How was that a metaphor for what we're gonna do in
group? Well, I think the reason that I liked it so much and I read
it, uhm, a couple of years ago, was that I think a lot of times
what happens in, in groups and even the kind of groups that,
that you're gonna be doing in schools or that you might
participate in schools is that that they focus on what people do
wrong. You know, you're in an anger management group
because you can't control your anger, uhm, and they don't focus
on what people do well. We focus on the weeds and we don't
focus on the flowers or the good stuff. Uhm, and I think that's
why sometimes people get into group and they're like, "Well,
this is all negative and this is all down and this what I do
wrong." And so, I think what I like about this analogy is, is, is a
couple of things. One of them is recognizing that not only do
with what I change some things, uhm, but we want to plan some
things. We wanna develop some new skills. We wanna teach
them some new behavior. Everybody can learn to communicate
better, everybody can learn some relationship skills, everybody
can get along a little better or, or, resolve conflict better. And
so, everybody has some weeds that they need to pull of and
everybody has some flowers that they, they want to plant. Now,
we're even gonna take this a little bit further this morning in a

sense of I want everybody to think about what you're bringing
to group? How you're gonna contribute because everybody has
something unique, some skills, some strengths, some things we
saw a lot of it last night. But we wanna make sure that we're
pretty clear about what you're bringing to groups and that you
feel good about contributing and Drew you, you did a nice lead
in this morning in terms of you get to help people as well as, as,
as you get some help in that way. And so, we wanna make sure
that we're, we're pretty clear about that. Alright, what we're
gonna do at this point is we're gonna let you work in pairs,
we're gonna give you, you see our picture of, of the garden over
there. We're gonna give you pictures of weeds and flowers and
stones, uhm, and watering cans, uhm, and we're gonna let you
label them for yourselves 'coz I, I think it's really helpful to
have a visual representation. So, uhm, I, I think it's pretty clear.
The flowers are gonna be the things that you wanna learn, uhm,
that you wanna do differently. They can be behaviors, they can
be thoughts, they can be feelings, they can be skills. You might,
and somebody write, write trust management, somebody might
write, uhm, to feel better about myself or to focus on the
positive more, uhm, somebody might say I, I, I need to be able
to identify my anger more quickly and then tell people when I'm
angry as opposed to waiting and then exploding, you know,
those, those might be some of, of your goals or, or they might
be your weeds. Uhm, not paying attention to your anger might
be your weed and your, your flower might be to, uhm, clearly
figure out when you're angry or when you start getting angry
and then saying that to somebody you're (coughs) expressing it
in that way. What do you think the stones would represent in
this metaphor? What, what, what's, what happens when you
have a stone in your garden?
38:05 We tossed them.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. And why do you do that?
(crosstalk)
38:10 It get in the way kinda thing.
Janice Delucia-Waack It gets in the way. Exactly. Exactly.

(coughs) So, if we were talking about what kinds of stones
might get in the way of our garden. It's just generally not
specifically yours but what, what, what, what we, what we
maybe label our some of the stones?
38:30 That they're like a fight or something like that.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay.
38:35 Nathan West Judgments.
Janice Delucia-Waack Judgments, okay. Judgments we make
about ourselves or other people, peer pressure maybe.
38:40 Fears.
Janice Delucia-Waack Fears. Uh hmm. Okay. Okay, hurry. What
do you think, we're, we're talking about watering cans. What do
you think the watering cans would represent?
38:50 To help you in a group.
38:55 Janice Delucia-Waack Exactly. Good. What I wanna do is
we're gonna do this and then we're gonna put them up on the
board because we want a real visual representation of what are
weeds are and what are flowers are and what are our watering
cans are. Okay. So, why don't we get into, to, dialogues again.
Why don't you pick somebody that you didn't work with last
night. We're gonna give you about 15 minutes, uhm, we're
gonna give you a markers and, and stuff to, to write. So, why
don't you, you can move your chairs around a little bit. We're
gonna get you some pictures and then what we're gonna do is
have you label your flowers and weeds and watering cans and
stones and then share them with the person, uhm, that you're
sitting next to. So, let me go and get those.
39:30 (inaudible )
39:32 Oh, it's bad. (laughing)
Hungry or thirst?
39:35 Do you feel we're giving on (inaudible )?
39:39 Yes, I, I think that probably is. (crosstalk)
39:40 (inaudible )
39:41 You think differently, you feel differently (inaudible ).
39:45 Or, uhm.
(inaudible )

39:49 Allen Segrist (inaudible )
39:50 Understanding these labels, of course, (inaudible )
39:54 (inaudible )
39:55 (inaudible )
40:05 (inaudible )
40:10 (inaudible )
40:15 (inaudible )
40:20 (inaudible )
40:25 Janice Delucia-Waack Alright. Alright. Well, let's, let's
talk a little a bit about, uhm, some of the things that you wrote
down and, and you can feel free to share as much or as little as
you, as you want. Uhm, well let's start over the positives. So,
let's start with the watering cans.
40:35 Nathan West And my watering cans cannot fall within
each other 'coz I'm not too good at putting myself in other
people shoes and my other one is acceptance, (coughing)
acceptable because I can put myself in the shoes and I might,
you might not think that I have known or I haven't been through
that but I'll make sure that I put myself or put myself or to think
about a time where I might have been like that and it makes me
more accepting and I try and think okay well, and we both kinda
have like the same thing. I've learned that a lot of ours can
rephrase them and then most like accepting.
41:10 Drew Edmondson I put on this, uh, like kinda fall under
the same thing too like I try to be like happy and carefree,
easygoing and I was trying to make people happy and try to be
easy to talk to. So, I, I can be like a friend and help them if they
need help or you know just there for me. That's me.
41:30 Well, I'm probably peaceful such peacemaker because I'm
pretty good like I try to avoid gentlemen like I was not like one
of my things. I don't like it. I think it's, you know, it kind of
pointless. So, as much as, you know, (inaudible ) as you can get
and I'm pretty a calm person, too. So, that's what I try to do just
like, you know, my friends they're gonna like start big fight but
I like, yeah, no, (inaudible ). Yeah, just trying make it all like,
uh, I don't know. It is like I'm not really used for it sometimes, I

mean, (crosstalk)
42:10 I guess, it's gonna be like gayer feelings on everything
but like turn into a big thing and make a big scene or anything
like that. It's just not, uh, it's not really me. So. (crosstalk)
42:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Good, good. Okay. You can, you
can use that here. We, one of the things that I think is, is
helpful a lot of times is that balance between feelings and
behavior. And, and I think what you're talking about is the
strong as everybody gets into the feelings and then they never
change the behavior, you know. It's just more fun to be angry.
(crosstalk)
42:35 Yeah, and they get into (inaudible ). (crosstalk)
42:38 Janice Delucia-Waack Then you get to, exactly. Other
people go immediately into the solution and never acknowledge
the feelings.
42:40 Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack And so, what we'll trying to do is do a
little bit of both here. Okay, what are the feelings so we can
figure out what needs to be changed? About let's do both. Good.
So, we're gonna call on you that at some point in time. Keep us
from being too dramatic and too caught up in the feeling. Good,
good. Okay. Okay. Well, let's pu, put them up on the board.
43:00 (inaudible )
43:04 Janice Delucia-Waack Alright, a little (inaudible ). Katie,
I love that necklace.
43:10 Katie Buschman (inaudible ) my mom .
43:11 All of the bonus thing.
(inaudible )
43:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay, great. Alright. Let, let's talk
about our flowers now. What do we want to plant? Or what we'd
like to keep if you got some good skills and if you think you're
good at, at conflict resolution or in peacemaking or stress
management. Those might be the things that you wanna keep
doing as well. But how do you wanna be different at the end of
the day? What flowers do you want to?

43:35 Katie Buschman I said, actually, I will be more
understanding (inaudible ) is I think and I'll be glad to really
understood (inaudible ) somebody else as if where they are.
43:45 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Good.
Casey Houser I don't know if I wanna kind of deal with
conflicts. I'm really bad at conflicts and I, I don't know like, I
always like, I'm scared I guess. I don't like doing that and I
wanna make new friends like we'll always be (inaudible ).
44:04 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. So, I hear you're gonna deal
with conflicts and makes some new friends.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Good. Okay.
Nathan West Mine is not piling my mistakes like and also not
care about my parents as much like that's a big thing. It kinda
ruin you I guess 'coz you get obsessed with it. You always think
you always have to look this way all the time then you never get
to like know who you realy are, you know, you never get to just
what is yourself, you don't even know because you're so caught
up in I have to wear this shirt or I have to, has to sing this song
and has to do that. And then, with the piling on my mistakes, I'll
mess up one time and then I'll put it aside or whatever and then
I'll wait awhile and now pile all back up. Let us say, I did some
stupid at school and then I'm like okay, whatever then a week
later I'd seen at lunch to go by myself (coughs) and when I get
home I'll sit there and I think, "Wow." Did I ask that notion
about myself? I have no friends. Only last week I did this and
everybody thought I was stupid and on a week before I mess up
on this and, so, I just pile that all up and I get really, really low.
I don't just deal with it a time, I just push it aside. So, I'm really
bad at that.
45:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Can I get you to, to reframe
that? Let's think positively, flowers you wanna plant. So,
instead... (crosstalk)
45:20 Nathan West (inaudible )
45:24 Janice Delucia-Waack ...of piling up your mistakes, so,
what do you wanna do?

45:25 Nathan West Uhm, not make mistakes but. (laughing)
45:30 Janice Delucia-Waack (inaudible ) Let, let's have a pick.
Let's, let's reframe this I mean this is part of the, I think, you
know, what we tell in ourselves in our negative self-taught
causes a lot of problems for us. So, how can we change that
statement to be a positive statement? Not piling up mistakes.
45:50 We're kind of deal with mistakes that actually make our
own life not making such a big deal like... (crosstalk)
45:55 ...who cares if you're going stupid like everybody does
(inaudible ).
45:57 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. So, more accepting upon
mistakes.
46:00 Yeah.
Haley Cordes I try to look at the bright side and know there is
like sometimes no bright side among mistake but I always think
all could be worst or, you know what I mean. And how it varies
some kind of thing. So, I don't know.
46:10 Uh hmm.
Hailey Cordes Maybe not to... (crosstalk)
Haley Cordes ...feel, as bad about it and/or.
Janice Delucia-Waack Good. What else? What other flowers are
we gonna plant?
46:20 Andrea Tordi One of my flowers is, uhm, no fear to speak
out. No, I mean, even in talking or (inaudible ) still little nerve-
wracking for me but I wanna be held, uh, know that, I, I know
what I'm believing but it's like being able to go out there and
say, "This is what I am and this it," is more difficult for me.
46:40 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. So can you?
46:45 Andrea Tordi Uhm, for then positive. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack What other, what other positive? Uh
hmm.
Andrea Tordi Uhm, just be able to say what I think and not
worry about what people think about it.

46:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay, okay. Good.
46:55 Ronae Biddle Mine was kinda like Andrea's that said
uhm, I'm(ph) becoming more comfortable like sharing personal
thoughts and feelings like in a group because a lot of times like
uhm, (inaudible ) like I'm a good listener, like I'm really good
at listening to people but a lot of time I won't say anything, I'll
just listen, so that was what my things that I would like to go
better.
47:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. And I think one of the
things that we'll talk about of a very sense(ph) today is, is kinda
figuring out what keeps you from sayin' it. Sometimes it's, it's
you feeling uncomfortable and you saying I don't have any
important thing to say or people aren't gonna listen to me,
sometimes it's fine(ph) what you got from people. This is isn't
safe to say this or and so, maybe we can check some of that
stuff out. Probably it would be helpful if we have at least one
flower from everybody so we kinda know as we go through how
we can help you.
47:40 Cassandra Ellis (Coughs) I kinda like what Andrea says
like I wanna do more, confident with myself like I know how I
feel but I wanna be able to just like say it and not worry about
what people are thinking.
47:55 Drew Edmondson Uhm, I, I guess I want to better
understand my fears and like how to react with them like
sometimes I will just be like really irrational when I like, and so
I guess, it's like I just want a better like, react better 'coz
sometimes I act too emotional, I guess.
Drew Edmondson Sort of react better to me(ph).
48:15 Cassandra Ellis I guess, I don't know, I like making
friends and like just meeting new people and stuff so like, I
don't know, sometimes it's a little hard because high school is
so big so you can't really, really get around to everybody and
you all kinda like stick to your basic friends that you always,
like you just have your certain friends that you hang out with

but I like, more(ph) of kinda like my grade and like just go to
different groups or whatever 'coz(ph) you know, it's kind of
better 'coz it's like you see how like, you can see the difference.
There's a big difference between certain people so I'm(ph) just
kinda like interesting, I think and... (crosstalk)
Cassandra Ellis you know, some people can like what, despite
what you may think they really like really great just like you
know, sometimes you got that little you know, bias and had
about certain people but there are, they get totally I'm
worried(ph) about how you're wrong, sometimes.
49:00 Janice Delucia-Waack So, maybe being a little bit more
open?
Janice Delucia-Waack And maybe taking a few more risk and
trying to think about meeting some new people then?
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Uh hmm.
49:15 Cassandra Ellis That's how what I feel about groups like
that's why I like to be involved 'coz you can meet new people,
you know what I mean? People you don't see down the hall
everyday or whatever.
49:20 Janice Delucia-Waack So let's talk about weeds, what are
we gonna get rid of? What negative thoughts? What negative
behaviors? You know, and a lot of times what happens is that
with weeds is they worked(ph) for a little while they were okay.
49:35 D'you understand?
Haley Cordes Uhm, one of my weeds is patience, like I don't
have good patience at all, like I'm really bad about it and uhm, I
feel like I need to be more patient to be stress free kind of.
49:55 Casey Houser I also had patience 'coz I feel like uh, like
with people that don't have patience with are the people who are
closes to me and like I feel like I jump on their back like, if
they don't get toned down right now, like I can get mad and
like, then I feel bad because they are like the closest people in
my life but I yelled at them for not getting stuffed done and

then another one is money spending habits because I'm really
bad at that. Like I need to stop (inaudible ). (laughs)
50:25 Drew Edmondson Uhm, one of my weeds like sometimes I
feel like I got to be good in everything I do and like I got to
give a 150 percent in everything I do, schoolwork, football,
sports, everything and I just want you know to get rid of them.
That kind of also relates to my stones too, so... (crosstalk)
Haley Cordes I think your a, tell you I think it's okay to give
your 150 percent all the time because I, I've got a new job(ph)
but that doesn't mean that you have to be good at everything,
you know what I mean? (crosstalk)
50:55 Drew Edmondson Oh yeah, I know what you mean.
Haley Cordes Like, you can be like your not gonna be perfect to
everything you do, you know but, I mean, like ri, like being in
sports I can relate to that like, you made a commitment so you
wanna be the best you can be but you can only be so good, you
know what I mean? So.
51:15 Drew Edmondson Yeah.
Andrea Tordi One of my weeds kind of relates to Drew's and,
that I have self pressure and, pressure in academics and pressure
in softball and even in showfire(ph) like have to be on top of
dancing or something like that and they do just(ph) understand
that... (crosstalk)
Andrea Tordi ...what I do, what I give 100 percent is gonna be
enough.
51:35 Jessica Hall I don't have that downfall on my weeds but
that would be one if I had a third weeds if I don't. (laughs) But
yeah, uhm one of the ones(ph) that I did have those uhm, like
holding on the anger like when me and my friend get in a fight
like we don't talk about it but we'll let it go and then like we'll
get another fight like a week later, I don't(ph) like I still bring
out my old feelings about well, I'm mad at you for this, I'm mad
at you for that and it's like I need you start on the billing(ph)
okay, it's over, it happen, it's done, let it go.

52:05 Cassandra Ellis I don't know how I guess the way I think
about it but if I get mad you know, I tell over(ph) as much as
possible (inaudible ) people like sit down and talk it out and
you know, how do you feel about this and like explain and what
you can do to make it better. It's just more of like it happened,
there's no use crying about it, you know like crying is like it
make it better so, just you know let it go and you know I, I
guess like you ought to be able to talk about it but I know I
think if I like talk about it really ex, explode and say things I
don't want to so I think it's just better just for, for me at least to
let, just let it, you know, I'll put(ph), if I sleep it off you
know... (crosstalk)
Cassandra Ellis ...uh, so what I was (inaudible ) you just sleep it
off.
52:50 Nathan West That's really interesting 'coz that's, mean the
opposite. (crosstalk)
Cassandra Ellis Is it?
Nathan West I'm the one that, I'm the one that asks to sit down
and say okay, why do you feel this way like just talk to me
about it and it's really hard when the people are that way and
say... (crosstalk)
Nathan West ...uh, just let me just, just get over you know and
I'm just think well, I can't get over it until I'm positive that like
you are over and then you try talk to them about and I say
"Well, just don't worry about it." What you do right about it it's
like they were your friend and it's really hard when they don't
wanna talk to you about it 'coz, and I'm always stock with well,
I wanna talk about it, it still, I need to know how to do that,
how to just be that way and accept people to say, well, I just
don't want to talk about it, that's over(ph).
53:25 Cassandra Ellis No, I just like feel bad though 'coz I
know like, (inaudible ) you know, you got to, somebody says
like hey, I don't want to be your friend anymore and you(ph)
wonder why, they get you frustrated and I'm like you know,

looks like one of those happy go lucky people calm, don't let
really anybody mad at 'em or anything though you know
sometimes you just like you don't want to explain it, just yeah,
you just wanna, you just wanna let go, that's basically what it
is, you seemed like oh, I wanna forget about it like I(ph) make
sure... (crosstalk)
53:55 Haley Cordes You know, tell them I (inaudible ) like I
just want to be happy so, but sometimes it, it's really bad 'coz
I'm just like okay, if it like, if it bothers me I'm not gonna be
happy but then like after a while you get like really upset...
(crosstalk)
Haley Cordes ...like one day and your like uh, and you still
don't know how to get it out because you bring out stuff like
from a long time ago... (crosstalk)
54:15 Uh huh..
Haley Cordes ...and I'm like, what? But like, I understand were
your coming from, were(ph) just keep it in and get over it
because you don't want to(ph) like make it a big deal like you
wanna avoid drama(ph). Let's say just(ph) whatever, I'm trying
to be the mature one here.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, well, and it sounds like at least the
three of you can kinda help each other and work on this in the
sense of trying to figure out it, I mean I'm thinking about pick
your balance(ph). When is the important stuff that you need to
say to your friends you know that you hurt my feelings, I really
need you to be different and when we have to sometime say,
you know what, just let it go.
54:45 Allen Segrist Uhm, whatever we take just to kind of put a
little warmth in there would be you know, hey, I, I realize that
I'm bothering you right now but you know, I need to do this for
myself. Maybe that would be more understanding 'coz it
would(ph) be an understatement perhaps. But if it's cold like
hey, I don't care, were done, you know uh, that's how we always

start(ph) to thing.
Casey Houser I'm the exact opposite of you all I wanna is go to
sleep and like even if that other person like wants me to say
something like I know I should and I, I can say well, alright, in
my head I know what I should say and like I, I can think about
what I wanna say but I just can't say it like I'm not good with
comfort like even if it's like the biggest like if it, even if it is
like really big deal and like the other persons like really mad at
me or, and it's my fault like I still don't know what to say like, I
can say I'm sorry but I can't explain why like, I don't know why,
I just can't do that, I just want to go to sleep.
55:50 Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, and, and a lot of things that we
wanna do today are really getting you to think about what you
want in a relationship, what does bother you, what makes you
feel uncomfortable and the stuff that you tell yourself and you
expla, you still gonna make a choice about whether you share it
or not, sometimes you own(ph) to it and sometimes your not.
And then maybe... (crosstalk)
56:05 Allen Segrist So Nath(ph), gave you a cue earlier that
though(ph) he said, were(ph) he said, one of this predicaments
is piling things up, we did not even know that and you could
suggest to him hey(ph), now, I'd worry if you start piling this
things up, I am burned out(ph), it's me and I just have to go take
care of myself right now.
Allen Segrist But don't, don't think, don't start thinking big
pile's(ph) a bad day.
56:25 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Alright. Well, I think this is
gonna come up again and again (coughs) these days as we do
some things but let's, let's hang up our weeds and our flowers
right now.
56:35 Flowers.
56:40 Flowers.
Flowers over here.

Oh.
Yeah.
(inaudible ).
56:41 (inaudible ).
56:42 (inaudible )
56:43 Janice Delucia-Waack Alright. Stones, rocks, pebbles,
whatever we want to call them.
56:45 Drew Edmondson Rocks... (crosstalk)
Stones...
56:50 Drew Edmondson ...kinda go together uh, it's like peer
pressure and like pressure from my parents (coughs), the school
I belong, like my good at everything weed or whatever was
like... (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson ...like, like my parents really want me to see
succeed like be the best like, I mean it's good but it's like,
sometimes they like over do it and like warns you like starting
varsity as a freshman or stuff like that, why don't you have like
A pluses when you have like A's and stuff like that and it's just
really hard and like your friends are like, oh, why do you
always listen to your parents and like it's just lot of pressure.
57:30 Haley Cordes Yeah. And(ph) like that goes back to like
sharing your feelings with what's on their(ph) mind like I, it's
like a fear sharing my feelings because I don't want her make
'em mad or but like with grades like when you get that A's your
excited but then your parents like where is the A+ and your like
(coughs) it's great you wanna tell them you know, mom, dad I'm
working my hardest, you know what I mean.
57:50 Casey Houser One of my stones is fear of trust I guess
with things I've gone through in my life and family and friends
like it's really hard for me to open up and trust someone and
like telling my secrets like I really don't really like sharing any
of my secrets... (crosstalk)
58:05 Haley Cordes They talk to each other, about people.
Casey Houser ...anybody 'coz it always seems to backfire when

I really do that so, that's one of my fear, I think stones, I don't
know... (crosstalk)
58:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, you know, tahnk you for
sharing that. (crosstalk)
Casey Houser Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack I mean that's, that's pretty important.
58:20 Uh hmm.
Andrea Tordi I think sometimes I'm kind of opposite of Casey
like sometimes I always think oh well, they seemed like a nice
person I can, I can trust them and there's... (crosstalk)
58:25 Yeah.
Andrea Tordi ...no problem and then I don't you know, until I
(inaudible ) sensitive enough for my goal that was fine
(inaudible ) I think about what goal, what if they go say this or
what if I'm really couldn't trust them but I did. Sometimes that's
my problem jumping into trusting them without thinking about
stuff like might happen.
58:45 Ronae Biddle See, I'm a lot like that, I trust everybody
very much... (crosstalk) ?
58:50 Too much.
Ronae Biddle ...that's(ph) just like, I don't know uhm, like I can
be trusted and so I assume that everybody else can be and a lot
of time... (crosstalk)
58:55 Andrea Tordi Yeah.
Yeah.
Ronae Biddle ...that's not the case and I do all the time though.
59:00 Allen Segrist So the word fear, that three of you
mentioned somebody else said it uh, and uh, I was wondering,
what do you do with fear?
59:10 Nathan West I guess it depends on what it is and there's
different kinds like some kinda fears spiders and it's not like as
big of a deal as a fear of being hurt in a relationship.
59:20 Yeah.
59:25 Casey Houser I think you like go(ph) as a person your
gonna have to try to work on your fears and like try to get over
on like... (crosstalk)

59:30 Haley Cordes Before (inaudible ).
59:34 Casey Houser Yeah. We ought to grow like ad learn, like
I think gro(ph), like if you overcome a fear you, that's when you
learn the most about yourself and like you learn how strong you
are and how you, how you deal with things and stuff.
59:45 Andrea Tordi Just like Casey like if you don't make,
might, might be afraid of making a mistake but if you don't
make the mistakes and how you're gonna learn from it.
(crosstalk)
59:55 Yeah.
Andrea Tordi If you always play it safe then, you're never get, I
mean to something big that's gonna figure(ph), we're gonna not,
know what to do because you never experience something like
that.
01:00:05 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist So it can be something that you can confront it,
you can deal with it... (crosstalk)
01:00:10 Yeah.
Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist ...you can face it uh, (crosstalk)
01:00:15 Nathan West If you don't you'll never know if you're
always scared of it. (crosstalk)
Yeah.
Nathan West Like it was a relationship thing, and you were
always thinking oh, I want somebody else but then you never do
because you're scared of it then you're like never gonna know
what it's like, I don't know.
01:00:30 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Uh hmm. Well, in
group it's a good place to make notice of some of these fears
you know, that(ph) if you have something to say but you're
noticing that you're holding back and you're not saying it, this
is a good place to think about, is it me? Well, I'm not share this
with anybody else or there's something that happens in this
group as there something that somebody said or does somebody
remind me of somebody and so it makes me uncomfortable

about sharing this.
01:00:55 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack That maybe worth a, a five or ten minute
conversation for us about what happens for us or am I afraid if I
say this people won't like me or they will judge me or they'll
label me. Let's check that out and see, is that really true? Uh
hmm. Uh hmm.
01:01:05 Casey Houser Sometimes you don't know what you
fear like... (crosstalk)
01:01:10 Haley Cordes Yeah.
Casey Houser ...sometimes like, I used to never really have
relationships with anybody and I didn't know why and then
finally, I just let myself go and open myself up to someone and
I have finally figured out that my fear is commitment and like I
have a big fear of that and once I let myself go like it was such
a big relief because I grew as a person and I figure out one of
my faults and I try to go on and try to work on my fear.
01:01:40 Janice Delucia-Waack Can I put you on the spot for a
minute Casey...
Casey Houser Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack Can you tell me a little bit what was the
fear commitment? What would happen if you committed to
somebody?
01:01:45 Casey Houser Uh, I just felt like if I committed to
man(ph) they're gonna let me down like... (crosstalk)
01:01:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay.
Casey Houser ...that if I open myself of that(ph) I would, they
would either tell my secrets to someone or they would like
betray me somehow. (crosstalk)
Casey Houser And I was scared of that and I didn't wanna go
through that.
Janice Delucia-Waack Did that happened?
01:02:10 Casey Houser Yeah, it's happened before, that's
probably why I'm scared of it.
01:02:15 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Uh hmm. And I think

it goes that to that idea that you have to figure out who you can
trust and who you can't?
01:02:20 Casey Houser Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack It's not about commitment, it's about the
people that are involved... (crosstalk)
Casey Houser Yeah.
01:02:25 Janice Delucia-Waack ...in it. Uh hmm.
Casey Houser You see a lot of understanding like there's a lot of
contrast like people have directly opposite views but they
understand where that person is coming from and... (crosstalk)
Casey Houser ...you can learn from each other like having the
opposite views you can learn how to kinda meet in the middle.
01:02:40 Exactly.
Janice Delucia-Waack We had 10 people who were talking like
Nathan in terms of I have to be perfect all the time and dah,
dah, dah, it would be hard to come up with strategies to combat
them because your also ingrained in it so we need those
differences. That's what's really need about groups is, is you
want people to compliment each other... (crosstalk)
01:02:55 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack you compliment different perspectives.
01:03:00 Yeah. Great.
Janice Delucia-Waack What was... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist I like to tell(ph) that some people can, have
extended to others 'coz you know I, I've heard clients go across
the circle here.
01:03:10 Haley Cordes That's us(ph)... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist I like to help you, I like to understand you.
01:03:15 Nathan West I really like the point that I, I think it
was one or two of you made that, to understanding things to you
is that if you personally have been through it at least you have
friend kinda like you're(ph) thing I had a friend that do the same
thing and so it was kinda interesting you know, and you
wouldn't have known that had didn't know, or if we didn't come

here or something. (crosstalk)
01:03:30 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Uh hmm. What was it
like to identify this weeds, this flowers, this watering cans, to
write it down to share it? Was it easier to share it with one
person (coughs) or was it tough(ph)? But what was it like, I
think some of you struggled a little bit.
01:03:45 Andrea Tordi I think it was interesting that once we
start like, I mean at first is kind of slower startin' (inaudible )
but then once you realize that oh well, uhm, my feelings was
just like that or, I like(ph) the opposite feelings of that person,
your able to get out and talk about it in having conversation of
it because someone knows what your feeling like or they're the
other side of the feeling.
Haley Cordes I like talking about like weeds or whatever with a
bunch of people because like I could give feedback to Nathan or
you know what I mean like, I got feedback and you know that
you know what I mean, your not perfect, you have stuff to work
on but other people can help you, you know what I mean? And
that sounds like cool about friends and relationships and stuff,
you know you have those people to help you and you help them.
01:04:35 Casey Houser I think it's kind of a relief to like
identify things about yourself that you like and that you don't
like so you know what your good at and what you need to work
on and you, your not going to do that on a day to day basis with
your friends but if you like sit down in a group and you identify
this things and like you talk about it then it's easier to grow as a
person.
01:04:55 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Well, I'd like to think
about what we do in group is probably not what you do
normally on a daily basis... (crosstalk)
01:05:00 Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...but sometimes you can use the strategy.
Sometimes when your having a bad day you need to sit down
and say you know, what are my watering cans, how can I help

other people? What am I good at and what am I telling myself
that's not good.
01:05:10 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack So you don't do it everyday but hopefully
we're teaching you some things that when you need 'em, you'll
use 'em.
01:05:20 Andy Horne So what I were ask to do today is talk a
little bit about how the first session went last night and then
talk about how the first session went this morning in the second
session uh, this morning. So, what I, I uh, wanted to observe is
that last night you did a really nice job of getting the, the group
set up, having the uh, students come together and what a
delightful group of students they were. They are so energetic
and so, so enthuse and one of the first things that you did was
you talk to them about uhm, the swimming pool metaphor were
you said let's talk about how things work with a swimming pool
and they joined in very quickly to start talking about well in the
swimming pool you have guidelines or rules that we have to live
with and it's interesting to watch because they actually begin
generating the rules themselves. You suggested this will be a
good thing to do but, then they start to say, well, you know like
uh, with the diving board you don't want two people on the
diving board at once and uh, then they... (crosstalk)
01:06:15 Allen Segrist Yeah.
Andy Horne ...started talking about yeah, you, I think uh, you
brought up the shallow and you, you don't always be in the
shallow but you also wanna be careful in the deep and, so it was
really interesting to watch how that began to develop and then
the uh, next thing that uh, uh, uh, seem to happen was that uhm,
you begin talking to them about uh, activities to do and uh, Al
you had a series of movement activities and ask them to uh, to
go through them and it was enjoyable to watch because you
could see that even though you didn't explain in detail, (laughs)
you know it's like you know, here and there, where are you and,
and... (crosstalk)

Andy Horne ...they move very quickly so I think a number of
counselors when they are beginning to do group or have a fear
that it won't work and yet you got up and said, let's do this and
it will work and it did. (crosstalk)
Andy Horne And so it's possible to watch the process happening
very well and the students would look a little confused, they
look at each other and then said, okay, I don't know what this
strange people up to but we'll do it and they went and did the
work very effectively and ... (crosstalk)
01:07:15 Allen Segrist Uh hmm.
Andy Horne ...as you begin, began to be a little more detailed
with the activities they began to be more engaged in 'em and it
was kinda fun... (crosstalk)
01:07:20 Yeah.
Andy Horne ...as they uh, uh, stayed connected so uhm, the last
one that you did with them uh, I thought was kind of uh, fun
because you did the uh, centering were you said here is the
center of the group, where are you and they came together and
there were some yeah, out further and some closer and then you,
Janice ask on where were you when you started and they move
further back out and, then they started talking around and you
can see some recognition reflects on their parts like, yeah, yeah,
we are in here now and earlier we're right here because we
didn't know what to expect... (crosstalk)
01:07:50 Allen Segrist Hmm.
Andy Horne ...and so, it, it was really nice to see this
happening, so, the combination of activities you had last ni,
night with the, the name game, they talked about that as, I've
got a sense of individuality and I'm connected here, people
know me and yet I'm unique. You had the uh, guidelines, the
rules that brought them together as a group, they start to say,
yeah, this is, we agree with this, there begun to be deve,
developing a sense of cohesion with the activities you could see
the connectedness and say in, I see were I am with you and were
I'm separate from you, I can see how were complimentary or

how we're unique and so the whole process of last night was
interesting to watch and as we finished you could just see the
enthusiasm for coming back today, it's like... (crosstalk)
01:08:30 Allen Segrist Yeah. Yeah.
Andy Horne ...yeah this is good. So, did you have any thoughts
on you know, the cumulative events of last night that you
wanted to share or observations you wanted to make?
01:08:40 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Well, I think that's a
good point because I think you do have to have their balance at
group but particularly for adolescents. That first session has got
to provide that structure of here's how it's gonna work and
here's what our rules are. Confidentiality is so important but
you don't wanna bore them. (crosstalk)
01:08:55 Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack And so you've got to have something
that's fun and engaging but at the same time be clear about how
it's gonna work so that they know and so it really is, it is a
balance... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...otherwise, they're not gonna wanna
come back.
Andy Horne Uh hmm. Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist And it was, maybe it's a nice contrast moving in
to this morning session 'coz they could kinda sit in their chair at
the outset... (crosstalk)
01:09:15 Andy Horne Uh hmm. Uh hmm.
Allen Segrist ...and it may not work too hard is be the first to
say something... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist ...a little slow but last night after they had been in
the sense in my term I guess, energize... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist ...by being up in their feet and moving around,
you know, their mouths just started to work in just (laughs)
pretty effectively... (crosstalk)

Allen Segrist ...connecting to ideas uh, getting different
thoughts about it.
Andy Horne Uh hmm. Uh hmm. Now this morning you chose to
have them mixed up a little bit so they weren't seated quite the
same way with that, that was uh, to begin to provide different
opportunities for them to interact with others... (crosstalk)
01:09:50 Janice Delucia-Waack Uh hmm. Uh hmm.
Andy Horne Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Then I said to one of 'em too, you know,
I think the whole ideas were gonna try out new behaviors...
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...and if you sit in the same place every
time then you kinda get stock in your old patterns so we're
really... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yeah.
01:10:00 Janice Delucia-Waack ...trying to remind them that
were gonna move them around again uhm, because we really
want them to keep sitting next to new people but also sitting in
new chairs to remind them that we're gonna try new stuff out.
Allen Segrist Yeah, I kinda watching to see how two people
paired up and there's still kind of pick in the person beside
'em... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist more so than they are the going to cross the room
to a new person for their... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist for their life experience.
01:10:25 Andy Horne Yeah.
Allen Segrist So, that would be something I encourage them to
be... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Uh hmm.

Allen Segrist more conscious about.
Andy Horne Well, we're going to see more of this happen but
uh, the second session that you just completed and that uh, that
has happened you had the metaphor (coughs) of the garden and
it was interesting to watch how quickly the students identified
with uh, with the, the metaphor... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...and begin to think in those metaphorical terms
were you, you talked about with the uh, the watering of pail you
know... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...and the, the fertilizer, the enrichment, you talked
about the weeds and the flowers, you've got the stones...
(crosstalk)
01:11:00 Andy Horne ...and so it's kind of interesting to see if
they'll go, what are you talking about? (laughs) But, in fact they
didn't, each of them just seem to go, okay... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...uh, I understand and they begin to identify what
you were asking for with that and so, writing(ph) go through
each of the uh, activities that you did uh, I wanna observe with
you that what seem to be happening was they started talking out
uhm, about saying, well yes, uh, I need to be more empathic or
yes I'd like to be happy to find a friend and yes I need to be
more open and uh, this are characteristics I have but as you
went through the activities and the talk begin to develop more
fully, several things seemed to be occurring. One, was they
begin to personalized change that might be important for them
and instead of uh, being an academic exercise were they said,
well, a flower would be this, that or the others like well, in my
life one of the things, ways... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne ...that I need to be growing is, (crosstalk)

Andy Horne and they begin to talk about that much more
personally, in fact this uh, as the process went on there was
greater and greater depth to their sharing of their experiences
with friends, with people that they had been friends with and
had moved on to different ways of relating to them. Now, I was
just kind of wondering uh, is this fairly consistent with your
experiences in doing the groups like this?
01:12:20 Janice Delucia-Waack Well, I think this is certainly a
really good group and this kids are pretty verbal and, and you
know, for all of us it's a pretty self aware... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...but I also do think that this metaphor is
really powerful. What I've seen is groups will develop their own
metaphors but because you have a such a sure(ph) group, you
have seven or eight sessions, they might not find the metaphor
till session five, six or seven if we can give them a metaphor it
speeds up this process and it does, it's that projection or that
identification or whatever... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...that helps them personalize it so I do
think that, that metaphor is real powerful... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...in getting them connected in some way.
(crosstalk)
01:13:00 Allen Segrist Yeah, yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack It's a common language.
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack We all have something that we can talk
about.
Allen Segrist Well, I think the evidence is written... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Right.
Allen Segrist ...on each of those up on the wall.
01:13:10 Andy Horne Uh-huh.
Allen Segrist Uh, that's how thoughtful they are uh, uh, serious

it is or personalize it is.
Allen Segrist So, yeah it's, it's effective thing in, in a very kind,
quick kind of thing.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well(ph), and I also think what happen
sometimes in some of these psychoeducational groups is people
say, okay, our goal is communication skills so that's our group
goal so everybody has their goal. But, everybody has different
communication skills that maybe they need to develop or maybe
different situations... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...and it's really as helpful for everybody
to make that I statement, this is how I wanna be different...
(crosstalk)
01:13:45 Janice Delucia-Waack ...this is what I, there's
somethin' about saying it to the group, there's something about
internalizing it and that everybody else know... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...so that they can help each other. We
sometimes, because we assumed that we have a group goal, we
don't spend enough time doing the individual goals... (crosstalk)
01:13:55 Andy Horne Right. Right.
Janice Delucia-Waack and that goal setting is really important...
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...because look how much information we
got and how (laughs) many connections?
01:14:05 Andy Horne Yes that is... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yes that is... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...that feeling of I'm not alone, I have
this same issues or somebody can help me with this, this is
really great, was this real powerful? (crosstalk)

01:14:15 Janice Delucia-Waack You could see them making
those connections.
Andy Horne So, if you think of the therapeutic factors of group
work, already we can see them in operation you can see...
(crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Andy Horne ...the uh, the togetherness develop and you can see
the uh, connectedness, you can see the, we are here and we're
dealing with our issues.
01:14:30 Janice Delucia-Waack The universality... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Is there.
Andy Horne Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack Hmm. The installation of hope I mean,
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack and I think the other thing is the
altruism. They realize, I can help somebody else... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...somebody get something out of this
troop but I can help somebody else... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Right. Yeah. (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...which I don't think teenagers have
sometimes.
01:14:45 Andy Horne Yeah, yeah. So, where do we go next?
Janice Delucia-Waack We're gonna start lookin' at uhm, how
people develop their feelings, maybe one of rational beliefs,
what they're telling themselves, we're gonna look at that process
of... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...how do they feel which I think is gonna
be great because they really talked about... (crosstalk)

Janice Delucia-Waack ...what they're telling themselves,
(crosstalk)
Andy Horne Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...their internal behavior... (crosstalk)
Andy Horne Oh... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack ...how that feels (laughs) and, and, and I
think anybody can relate to it but these, these uhm, kids
certainly has some other stuff goin' on. (crosstalk)
01:15:10 Andy Horne Yeah. You, you've got some great
material to work with from what they've already said.
(crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Yes. Oh, exactly.
Andy Horne That's fantastic.
Janice Delucia-Waack Yes. And we did ask them to, to generate
some ideas so we have some things that they're willing to talk
about but we don't have to call them by name.
01:15:20 Andy Horne Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack We have kind of buckets and things like
that we... (crosstalk)
01:15:25 Andy Horne Right.
Janice Delucia-Waack ...can pull out if ever we need them.
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Andy Horne This is going to be good.
Janice Delucia-Waack So, good... (crosstalk)
Allen Segrist Yeah.
Andy Horne So, let's move on.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Well, let's get started again. Uhm,
I think we set some good goals this morning and really started
to talk about things we might wanna do differently, so, what are
we gonna move in to now is talkin' about, thinking and feeling
and behaving uhm, because sometimes we get mixed up in those
kinds of things uhm, so I wanna give you some situations, don't,
don't put too much thought into this, let's go through this pretty
quickly, let's do true/false. Okay? Uhm, your friend take CD of

yours and breaks this, this makes you absolutely furious. True
or false?
01:16:00 Right(ph).
Yeah(ph).
So I hear some true, some falsest. Okay.
I'll be true.
False probably.
Janice Delucia-Waack Your mama let you stay up until one
o'clock on Saturday at eight watching TV with your friend who
is sleeping over, this makes you angry and embarrassed in front
of your friend?
01:16:10 True and false.
True.
True.
True.
True.
True.
False.
Nathan West Again it depends.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. Your teacher gives a surprise test,
you forgot to study the chapter the night before so your go, your
grade goes from a B to a C and this makes you guilty and
outraged. True or false?
01:16:25 True.
True.
True.
False.
False.
True.
True.
False.
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. So I heard some trues but I heard
some falsest in there.
01:16:30 Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack How do you, how do you decide?
Nathan West It depends, like, that's what... (crosstalk)

01:16:35 Like your choices(ph)?
(inaudible ).
01:16:36 Yeah.
Nathan West (inaudible ), like that CD it depends.
01:16:38 Yeah.
Nathan West Was it and with a friend it depends which friend is
over and what's happening and. (crosstalk)
01:16:40 Janice Delucia-Waack Okay. So there's somethin' in
between the situation and the feeling.
01:16:45 Tell me about it.
Uh hmm.
Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Right? Okay. The situation doesn't cross
the feeling, there is something that goes on and what's that
mediating event? What's in the middle?
01:16:55 How it affects you.
Janice Delucia-Waack How it affects you, okay.
01:17:00 Your thoughts.
Janice Delucia-Waack Your thoughts, how you make sense of
this. Okay, and if it is were trick questions in the sense of this
makes you feel, you don't automatically feel that way. Right,
okay.
01:17:05 Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack Well, why don't we look at our handouts
for a little bit, just uh, just uh, to kinda go, go through some of
this but if you look at it, they call this the ABC Model and, and
the A is the event, the B is you belief or you attitude about the
event and then C is your feeling uhm, as a result to the uh, the
beliefs. So, you guys, you were, talking about your CD's and it,
and somebody said it depends on what CD. Tell me about that.
01:17:30 Uh. (crosstalk)
Drew Edmondson Like some of the CD's like (inaudible ) I love
that band and you know, but then other CD's juts like yeah, I
never really want that CD, I just got it as present or something
and it wasn't that important to me or something like that. And
then other times like you're like I spent my hard earned money

to like buy that CD 'coz... (crosstalk)
01:17:50 I think(ph)... (crosstalk)
Janice Delucia-Waack Okay, it's my favorite CD and they
should known that it's my favorite and... (crosstalk)
01:17:55 Drew Edmondson Yeah.
Nathan West I also think it depends on how it broke...
(crosstalk)
01:18:00 Yeah.
Nathan West ...if they broke it just to break 'coz their mad at
me... (crosstalk)
Yeah(ph)... (crosstalk)
Nathan West it's a big difference than oh(ph), my CD player
scratched it and I dropped it.
01:18:05 Yeah.
Yeah.
Janice Delucia-Waack Right.
Yeah. Right.
01:18:10 Janice Delucia-Waack Exactly. And you know, and if
you look at this you know, and we don't need to go through this
in detail but it might be good to think about this that, that first
piece was uh, a friend breaks my CD uhm, and then you go
down to part two and it says change my friend is mean so my
friend broke that CD intentionally to my find is clumsy. How do
you feel differently?
01:18:25 Casey Houser How would you be aggravated...
(crosstalk)
Casey Houser than take care of my stuff.
01:18:35 Janice Delucia-Waack Exactly, exactly.
Uh hmm.
Janice Delucia-Waack Whether or not that you broke or, okay,
so how would you, if your mom will let you stay up late, what
kinds of things are you telling yourself to make yourself furious
at your mother?
01:18:45 Casey Houser She's not giving me responsibility to tell

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