Does the rapture of the church happen before or after the tribulation?

1. For my brothers and sisters in Christ who believe in a pre-tribulation, I have a couple questions for you.
And Dr. Brown correct me if I said something wrong in what I'm going to write. I''m always open to learning and correcting myself. I
always stay humble and listen to what The Holy Spirit reveals to us. He is the teacher and we are the students.
This is my challenges:
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rst objection:
Most Christians always talk about the 7 years of tribulation.
So can anyone of you who believe in pre-tribulation give me a single verse in the New Testament, where any of the new testament
writers speaks about a seven-year tribulation?
Because there is not a single verse that says that.
So the question is, how do we come up with this idea?
Some people will refer to Daniel 9:25-27 about the seven years, but here is a problem. Let me break it down.
In these verses, Daniel is talking in terms of weeks of years with a total of 490 years, which will lead to the destruction of Jerusalem
and the second temple. The prophecy goes on to divide the 490 years into three smaller units: one of 49 years, one of 434 years, and
one of 7 years. The
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nal “week” of 7 years is further divided in half. Daniel 9:25 explains this let's read it.
Daniel 9:25
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler,
comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench but in times of trouble.
Now do the math: the total is 490 years
1. 7x7 = 49
2. 62x7 = 434
3 49+434 = 483 so there are 7 years left to make up 490 years which lead to the destruction of Jerusalem and the second
temple in 70 AD and for those who are interested in this just google 70AD destruction of Jerusalem and what happens.
Now most people claim that these last 7 years refer to the seven-year tribulation but then they don't read the context correctly.
This is a misinterpretation of Daniel 9:25-27, that
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nal week of the year that 7 years. They think it is referring to the antichrist, well it
actually is referring to the Jews war, that took place from 66AD till 73 AD which is precisely 7 years. Because our Lord Jesus Christ
Himself said that Daniel 9:25-27 will be ful
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lled by the destruction of Jerusalem and the second temple which took place in 70 AD.
Jesus quotes Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14 and Luke 21:20, and Luke 19:41-44 where Jesus even is weeping over the city of
Jerusalem because He saw it would be destroyed. That is why Jesus said in this verse ( They will dash you to the ground, you and the
children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another)
So Daniel is not talking about the seven years of tribulation leading to the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Daniel is talking
about the destruction of Jerusalem in the second temple which will take place in 70AD.
1. So I want to challenge you all, to show me a single verse where Daniel is talking about the second coming of Jesus Christ? Because
there is not a single verse to be found about this.
So by now, we know clearly that the 7 years Daniel is talking about, has nothing to do with the return of the second coming of Jesus
Christ. So that brings us back to the question of how do Christians come up with the idea that there is a 7-year tribulation? Because
there is not a single verse in the New Testament that talks about a 7-year tribulation.
None of the New Testament writers speaks about a seven-year tribulation? The only mention of a time period is given in Revelation 11
and 12. Revelation 11 and 12 are talking about 3.5 years, 42 months, and 1260 days.
42 months = 3,5 years
1260 days = 3,5 yeas
So the idea of a 7-year tribulation which will lead to the second coming of Jesus Christ is not biblical, it is nowhere to be found in the
New Testament. Nor is Daniel talking about the second coming of Jesus Christ.
So this was only the introduction. So let me now show you why I do not believe in the rapture of the church and the resurrection of
believers before the tribulation.

2. Second objection:
Let us read Matthew 24:29-31
Notice that the title is talking about the second coming of the Son of Man which is Jesus Christ. So the second coming of Jesus Chris
our Lord. And for those who did not remember anymore who the Son of Man is read (Mark 14:60-62)
Matthew 24:29-31
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall
from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the
tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he
will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Now I have a couple questions for the pre-tribulations believers:
1. So when does the sun will be darkened and the moon not give its light? Answer: Immediately after the tribulation of those days
2. When does the Lord Jesus Christ gather his elect from all over the earth and the globe the four winds from one end of heaven to the
other according to Matthew 24:29-31? Answer: Immediately after the tribulation of those days
3. Can you show me anywhere in the new testament a verse where (Jesus) gathers his elect before the tribulation of those days?
Answer: There is not a single verse in the New Testament that talks about that. The Bible tells us clearly that this happens
Immediately after the tribulation of those days in Matthew 24:29-31. Jesus second coming is Immediately after the tribulation.
Third objection:
Let us read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
Novice that the title again tells us it is about the second coming of Jesus Christ. It also tells us that the “death in Christ will rise
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rst” keep this in mind.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
The Comfort of Christ’s Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no
hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.15 For this we say
to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are
asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise
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rst.17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
1. Does it say when the dead in Christ rise
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rst who are resurrected and then we who are still alive are caught up to meet them in the
clouds, to meet them in heaven? or does it say in the air (sky)? the atmosphere above us? Answer: it says sky, not heaven, Paul is not
saying heaven here.
Because most Christians believe that when they get raptured they go to heaven, and stay there until the tribulation is ended. But there
is not a single verse in the New Testament that says that. When Jesus comes down we will be caught up in the air to meet the Lord
along the way to meet him in the air, his return to the Earth. We are not going up but going down to earth to reign with Him for 1000
years.
2. So can you show me any verse in the New Testament that says we are caught in the air to be taken into heaven, God’s heavenly
dwelling place? Answer: There is not a single verse that says that.
3. So when does the rapture of believers to meet Jesus in the air take place? Answer at “The Day of the Lord” that comes as a thief
like a thief in the night how can we be sure about that let's read 2 Peter 3:10.
2 Peter 3:10
The Day of the Lord
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will
melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. So notice that Peter and Paul in 1 Thessalonians
4:13-18 talking about the same day.
This is why we are caught up in the air with the Lord because Jesus is going to bring
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re from His presence to consume all the evil on
the earth. I don't think anyone of us wants to be on the earth at this moment.
But this does not mean that Jesus will take us to heaven to God's dwelling place, but in the air, as Paul told us, and from Jesus's
glorious presence
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aming
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re comes to consume all the evil on the earth and purify the Earth and we come down to reign on it with
Jesus for a 1000 year. This is when Jesus 1000 year reign will start which we can read Revelation 20:1-5 which I will explain later
during this session.
3. Next question is what will be the sign that the Lord's descent from Heaven? Answer: with a shout, with the voice of an
archangel, and with the trumpet of God.

3. 4. But what trumpet is that the
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rst, the second, or the last? Answer the Last trumpet how do I know this answer is found in
1 Corinthians 15:50-58
1 Corinthians 15:50-58
Mystery and Victory
50 I tell you this, brothers:
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esh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last
trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body
must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the
mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written:
1. Paul tells us here, “We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet”.
2. So 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 are the same event. Because 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 tells us like
1 Corinthians 15:50-58 that not all die but some people will be alive at that moment, those who fell in asleep in Christ and those who
are still are alive and remain, both shall be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, and both will be caught up in the air to
meet the Lord and so shall we be always with the Lord.
And according to 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 Jesus will descend from heaven at the last trumpet which is the seventh trumpet. This also
connects with Matthew 24:29-31 where the Son of man (Jesus Christ) with a loud trumpet call sends His angels to gather His elect
from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
3. When will believers who are alive be transformed in a twinkling of an eye to be immortal? Answer: At the last trumpet which is the
seventh trumpet.
4. How do we know for sure that the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet? Answer: Revelation 11:15 let's read it
Revelation 11:15
Seventh Trumpet: The Kingdom Proclaimed
15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the
kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”
1. So we can read clearly that the seventh trumpet is the last trumpet because at that moment “The kingdoms of this world have
become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”. The 1000-year reign will start, the Millennial
reign of Jesus Christ.
2. So a question for all our pre-tribulation believers, when does the 1000-year reign of Christ start the Millennial reign?
Answer: After the tribulation, it clearly can not start at the beginning that would make absolutely no sense. But to be sure
about it let's read Revelation 20:1-6.
Revelation 20:1-6.
Satan Bound 1,000 Years
20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of
the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless
pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were
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nished. But
after these things, he must be released for a little while.
The Saints Reign with Christ 1,000 Years
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been
beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his
mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did
not live again until the thousand years were
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nished. This is the
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rst resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has a part in the
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rst
resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him for a
thousand years.
Notice that when the last trumpet the seventh trumpet will sound Jesus's reign will start “The kingdoms of this world have become the
kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” As we just read in Revelation 11:15, which connects
directly with 1 Corinthians 15:50-58, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and Matthew 24:29-31 it is all the same event.
So if you follow the chronology of revelation 11,12 and 13 and 20 the angel from heaven binds Satan and throws him into the abyss
for 1000 years which matches with those who are beheaded, those who are martyred for Christ, those who died in Christ being raised
to reign with him for a thousand years as we just read in Revelation 20:1-6. And this is called the
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rst resurrection.
So let me again ask you a question: So when does the
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rst resurrection take place which is the resurrection of believers who died in
Christ and martyred for Christ? So when does that resurrection called the
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rst resurrection take place? Answer: At the start of the
1000-year reign of Christ as we just read in Revelation 20:1-6.
Is this called the
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rst or second resurrection? Answer:
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rst resurrection
3. If it is called the
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rst resurrection of believers how can you have a resurrection of believers before the start of the 1000-year reign of
Christ the Millennial reign of Christ? While Revelation 20:1-6 tells us clearly that the resurrection of believers that takes place at the

4. start of the 1000-year reign of Christ which is called the
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rst resurrection happens after the tribulation. Because the 1000-year reign of
Christ does not happen before the tribulation.
3. Second, If there is a resurrection of believers before as the pre-tabulation people believe they have a huge problem because then
the resurrection of believers in Revelation 20:1-6 must be called the second resurrection? But that is not the case, it says that this
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rst
resurrection of believers happens at the start of the 1000-year reign of Christ the Millennial reign of Christ which is clearly after the
tribulation.
Fourth objection:
Let us read 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
Notice that the title again tells us this is about the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-11
The Day of the Lord
5 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. 2 For you yourselves know perfectly
that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon
them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness so that this Day
should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us
not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at
night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For
God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or
sleep, we should live together with Him.11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.
What times and seasons is 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 talking about? Answer the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ as we just read in 1
Thessalonians 4:13-18. The Greek manuscripts have no chapter division you read it in one go. This means the writer is here
referring to what he just got done discussing in the previous chapter 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and that is the coming of the
Lord, the coming of Christ.
So in other words 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 is referring to what the writer just was discussing in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 what I just
said, this is why he says in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 we don’t need to be told about the times and season because we know what time
and season is. For those who are not in darkness but of the light Jesus will not come as a thief in the night because we know of his
coming. But for those of the dark, Jesus will come as a thief in the night because they don’t see the time and seasons of the return of
Christ coming.
So to sum it all up
So did you see when you read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 and 2 Peter 3:10, when does the catching up of
believers takes place? Does the resurrection of the dead in Christ take place? Answer at the day of the Lord that comes as a thief in
the night, and that day is the day that he comes to destroy the evil element with fervent heat both the earth and the works that are in it
will be burned up.
Last trumpet believers are transformed and made immortal, immediately after the tribulation of the those days. The Lord sends His
angels to gather the elect (Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 and Revelation 11:15)
At the start of the millennial reign of Christ, the dead in Christ will rise
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rst which is called the
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rst resurrection (Revelation 20:1-6) with
satan being bound for a thousand years in the abyss. (Revelation 20:1-6)
So again my question where do you get a rapture of the church, a resurrection of the dead before the tribulation, when you take all
these passages we just read?
Because these passages tell us clearly that all this will happen immediately after the tribulation at the last trumpet. At the start of the
thousand-year reign of Christ. The dead in Christ will rise
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rst which is called the
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rst resurrection. So If there is a resurrection of
believers before that then Revelation 20 can not be the
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rst resurrection you see the problem?
And on top of that where in the New Testament is a gathering of the elect before the tribulation? Because Matthew 24:29-31 tells us
clearly that event will happen after the tribulation.