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         20 Questions & Answers About

                    The Cloud
                    with Chuck Hollis
                    VP & Global Marketing CTO
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                             About This Guide                                                        virtualization or
 I get lost in all                                                                                   VMWare.
 the terms:                  This guide is transcribed from the fantastic Virtual Chuck
 Private, Public,            video series – 20 questions with Chuck Hollis, EMC VP and
 Hybrid, etc.                Global Marketing CTO.
                                                                                                     What is VCE?
                             You can read the whole thing start-to-finish, or click on one
 How should I                of the questions to jump straight to the answer.
 get started?
                             To watch the Virtual Chuck videos, visit                                What are other
                             www.emc.com/campaign/global/virtual-chuck/index.htm.                    vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                           What about
 business                                                                                            security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the         What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud         legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?          environment?


 What is a                                                                                         My software
 vBlock?                                                                                           vendors don’t
                                                                                                   support
                                                                                                   virtualization or
 I get lost in all           Why should I do this with Intel, VMWare,                              VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                             Cisco and EMC?
 Hybrid, etc.
                             Each is a leader in their respective industries. By coming
                                                                                                   What is VCE?
                             together, we believe we can accelerate this transition, so
                             that clouds can be real for our customers this year and next
 How should I                year, rather than three or four years later.
 get started?
                                                                                                   What are other
                                                                                                   vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                         What about
 business                                                                                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                   My IT funding
                                                                                                   model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                      for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                         We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                              to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                             Why all the          What about my
                                                   How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                         interest in cloud          legacy
                                                   this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                             these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                              My software
 vBlock?                                                                                                vendors don’t
                                                                                                        support
                                                                                                        virtualization or
 I get lost in all          What makes a private cloud private?                                         VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,           Basically IT is in control - IT is in control of the service levels,
 Hybrid, etc.               the information placement, security, GRC - just as though it
                            was in a traditional IT setting. Most enterprise IT people                  What is VCE?
                            can't give up control, which is why private clouds are so
 How should I               interesting.
 get started?
                                                                                                        What are other
                                                                                                        vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                              What about
 business                                                                                               security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                        My IT funding
                                                                                                        model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                           for this approach.
 me?


                                                How does a private cloud            How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                              We’re not organized
                                                 fit into the whole “as a            different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                   to do this.
                                                   service” discussion?             private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                                                                                                     virtualization or
 I get lost in all           How do you sell this business?                                          VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            One of the classic mistakes we see when IT starts talking
 Hybrid, etc.                cloud to the business is that they make it all about cheaper
                             IT. Sure, the business wants to save money. Who doesn't?                What is VCE?
                             But it's more about better IT - faster, more responsive, more
 How should I                agile, more secure. To the extent that you can frame your
 get started?                discussions with business stakeholders around better IT,
                             rather than just cheaper IT, you'll have a lot more luck going          What are other
                             forward.                                                                vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                           What about
 business                                                                                            security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           Why all the interest in cloud these days?                              VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Everybody involved in IT has figured out that something's in
 Hybrid, etc.                the air... cloud. It's an opportunity to do what we've done
                             before, but do it faster, better and cheaper, rewiring how we          What is VCE?
                             build IT, how we operate IT, and how we consume IT.
 How should I                Whether you're on the IT side or the business side, things
 get started?                are changing.
                                                                                                    What are other
                                                                                                    vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                          What about
 business                                                                                           security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                        Why all the          What about my
                                                 How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                    interest in cloud          legacy
                                                 this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                        these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                         My software
 vBlock?                                                                                           vendors don’t
                                                                                                   support
                                                                                                   virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What about my legacy environments?                                    VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            You can't have a serious cloud discussion without talking
 Hybrid, etc.                about the legacy. What I see customers doing is building
                             their new legacy - the new platform they're going to use for          What is VCE?
                             all their new applications and all the new work being thrown
 How should I                at them by the business.
 get started?
                             Over time, as you feel more comfortable in this new platform,         What are other
                             you incrementally re-platform the old stuff as it makes               vendors doing?
                             economic and/or technical sense. There's no rush. The
 My business                 question is getting started, and that's what we see
 users want                  customers doing today.
 dedicated                                                                                         What about
 business                                                                                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                   My IT funding
                                                                                                   model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                      for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                         We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                              to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                        Why all the          What about my
                                                 How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                    interest in cloud          legacy
                                                 this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                        these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                         My software
 vBlock?                                                                                           vendors don’t
                                                                                                   support
                                                                                                   virtualization or
 I get lost in all          My software vendors don’t support                                      VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                            virtualization or VMWare.
 Hybrid, etc.
                            I'd like to say the whole industry is behind the cloud, but a
                                                                                                   What is VCE?
                            lot of customers have told us that they're noticing some foot
                            dragging from some traditional software vendors. Either
 How should I               they're against virtualization, they're against variable
 get started?               consumption models, or a little bit of both. There's no                What are other
                            simple answer to this. Things must change. Things will                 vendors doing?
                            change. The question is, "How do you accelerate change?"
 My business                One of the smartest things I've seen customers do is put
 users want                 competitive stacks of software next to the legacy choices,
 dedicated                  just to send a message that there's more than one way of               What about
 business                   doing things.                                                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                   My IT funding
                                                                                                   model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                      for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                         We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                              to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What is VCE?                                                           VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            VCE is a joint venture between three technology companies,
 Hybrid, etc.                whose sole mission is to accelerate this transition to private
                             cloud models. The infrastructure product is a vBlock, and              What is VCE?
                             they've wrapped around not only the services but the
 How should I                partner ecosystem so we can make this transition happen as
 get started?                quickly as possible. It's the best of the best from Intel,
                             VMWare, Cisco and EMC. Prefab and ready-to-consume with                What are other
                             one point of contact.                                                  vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                          What about
 business                                                                                           security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the         What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud         legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?          environment?


 What is a                                                                                         My software
 vBlock?                                                                                           vendors don’t
                                                                                                   support
                                                                                                   virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What are other vendors doing?                                         VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Just about every vendor in the IT industry is starting to
 Hybrid, etc.                realize the cloud is a big deal. Unfortunately, most of them
                             are positioning it as a technology thing rather than an IT            What is VCE?
                             organizational thing. My hope is that over the next few years
 How should I                IT vendors realize it's more about the IT organization
 get started?                transforming than the technology itself.
                                                                                                   What are other
                                                                                                   vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                         What about
 business                                                                                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                   My IT funding
                                                                                                   model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                      for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                         We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                              to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                           Why all the          What about my
                                                   How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                       interest in cloud          legacy
                                                   this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                           these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                            My software
 vBlock?                                                                                              vendors don’t
                                                                                                      support
                                                                                                      virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What about security?                                                     VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Security in the cloud? Let me tell you one thing for sure: It is
 Hybrid, etc.                not a technology problem. We have the technologies, and in
                             many cases they're better than what we use in the physical               What is VCE?
                             world today. We believe the challenge is maturity of process
 How should I                - the ability to have security organizations understand this
 get started?                new world, and the methodology required for securing their
                             new environment when the resources move back and forth.                  What are other
                             We've got hundreds of customers who are doing it today, so               vendors doing?
                             we want to make sure the discussion stays focused where it
 My business                 belongs: On the processes rather than the technology.
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                            What about
 business                                                                                             security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                      My IT funding
                                                                                                      model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                         for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud           How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                            We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a           different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                 to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?            private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                                                                                                     virtualization or
 I get lost in all          My IT funding model is all wrong for this                                VMWare.
 the terms:                 approach.
 Private, Public,
 Hybrid, etc.
                            When we talk about clouds we're really talking about a
                            shared service. One of the things that frequently comes up is            What is VCE?
                            the legacy funding model. Historically, business had a
 How should I               project, got some funding, picked out some toys, and
 get started?               handed them over to the IT guys. The IT organization says,
                                                                                                     What are other
                            "The funding model has to change if I'm going to go do
                                                                                                     vendors doing?
                            cloud." What I find interesting is that in other parts of the IT
 My business                landscape they're already using a shared funding model.
 users want                 Networks, email, collaboration, other kinds of tools already
 dedicated                  use a shared funding model. The funding models you need                  What about
 business                   are already there. You just have to apply them to this new               security?
 assets that                use case.
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud           How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a           different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?            private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the         What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud         legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?          environment?


 What is a                                                                                         My software
 vBlock?                                                                                           vendors don’t
                                                                                                   support
                                                                                                   virtualization or
 I get lost in all           We’re not organized to do this.                                       VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Around about the second or third really serious cloud
 Hybrid, etc.                discussion, it dawns on IT leadership that you might not be
                             organized to go do this. The initial reaction is, "How do we          What is VCE?
                             take this ginormous IT organization and incrementally move
 How should I                it forward one step at a time?" The better answer is, "How do
 get started?                you break off a smaller team that plays by different rules,
                             using different technologies, around different use cases,             What are other
                             that can speed ahead?" The difference in these two                    vendors doing?
                             approaches means the difference between getting results in
 My business                 quarters and months rather than years.
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                         What about
 business                                                                                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                   My IT funding
                                                                                                   model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                      for this approach.
 me?


                                              How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                         We’re not organized
                                               fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                              to do this.
                                                 service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                           Why all the          What about my
                                                   How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                       interest in cloud          legacy
                                                   this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                           these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                            My software
 vBlock?                                                                                              vendors don’t
                                                                                                      support
                                                                                                      virtualization or
 I get lost in all           How is storage different in a private                                    VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                             cloud?
 Hybrid, etc.
                             Storage is different in a private cloud. It's built differently,
                                                                                                      What is VCE?
                             it's operated differently and it's consumed differently. Built
                             differently: Pools of resources, automatic tiering, not a lot of
 How should I                hands-on. Operated differently: A lot of the traditional
 get started?                storage functions now show up elsewhere in the stack -
                                                                                                      What are other
                             either for the virtualization admin or the converged                     vendors doing?
                             infrastructure admin. Consumed differently: Storage
 My business                 resources are provided on-demand when the application
 users want                  needs them - not provisioned ahead of time. Storage is very
 dedicated                   different in the private cloud because it's built differently,           What about
 business                    operated differently, and consumed differently.                          security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                      My IT funding
                                                                                                      model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                         for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud           How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                            We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a           different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                 to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?            private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                           Why all the          What about my
                                                   How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                       interest in cloud          legacy
                                                   this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                           these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                            My software
 vBlock?                                                                                              vendors don’t
                                                                                                      support
                                                                                                      virtualization or
 I get lost in all           How does a private cloud fit into the                                    VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                             whole “as a service” discussion?
 Hybrid, etc.
                             There's a lot of chatter in the industry around IT as a service -
                                                                                                      What is VCE?
                             infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, software as
                             a service, user experience as a service. What a private cloud
 How should I                allows an IT organization to do is tackle all of these at the
 get started?                same time - to be able to take any part of the it infrastructure
                                                                                                      What are other
                             and deliver it as a service, whether they do that internally, or         vendors doing?
                             using a compatible service provider. Private clouds enable IT
 My business                 as a service.
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                            What about
 business                                                                                             security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                      My IT funding
                                                                                                      model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                         for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud           How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                            We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a           different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                 to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?            private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                                                                                                     virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What new skills and roles are needed?                                   VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            If cloud is about built differently, operated differently,
 Hybrid, etc.                consumed differently, you don't have to get too far before
                             you realize entirely new skills and roles will be needed in the         What is VCE?
                             IT organization. In general they don't tend to be the narrow
 How should I                silos - the technology experts of the past. They tend to be
 get started?                people who understand a little bit about a lot of things, and
                             can connect that in a process or an outcome. These new skill            What are other
                             sets are very much in-demand in many IT organizations                   vendors doing?
                             today - something that we'll probably see for the next five
 My business                 years.
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                           What about
 business                                                                                            security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                                                                                                     virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What customers are doing this?                                          VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            A couple of years ago it would be pretty unique to meet a
 Hybrid, etc.                customer who was pushing virtualization so hard that they
                             would get to a private cloud model. Now it's commonplace.               What is VCE?
                             We find it in just about every geography, every vertical, every
 How should I                corner of the world, large companies, medium-sized
 get started?                companies, small companies. Everyone is starting to realize
                             there's a better way to do IT, and they've all started to make          What are other
                             their steps along the way to their private cloud.                       vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                           What about
 business                                                                                            security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           Who can help me?                                                       VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Most IT organizations realize they need some help in order
 Hybrid, etc.                to make the transition work. In addition to all the usual
                             suspects, there's now a new set of sources. In general, look           What is VCE?
                             for consulting organizations that see this as more about
 How should I                processes and outcomes rather than just putting a bunch of
 get started?                new technology on the floor. At the end of the day,
                             technology really isn't the issue here, it's how we use it to          What are other
                             achieve business results that people are after.                        vendors doing?
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                          What about
 business                                                                                           security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the         What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud         legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?          environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           My business users want dedicated IT                                    VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                             assets that they own.
 Hybrid, etc.
                             What do you do when a business unit demands to see their
                                                                                                    What is VCE?
                             stuff - their servers, their storage, the stuff they paid for?
                             Well part of that's the funding model, but the other half is
 How should I                the ability for IT to train users to demand services, and not
 get started?                how they're implemented. We've been successful in other
                                                                                                    What are other
                             areas of the technology landscape. I don't see a whole lot of          vendors doing?
                             private, dedicated networks. I don't see a whole lot of
 My business                 private, dedicated phone systems. I know the opportunity is
 users want                  there. The successful IT organizations that I see work to
 dedicated                   build trust over time, and I think that's what most of us are          What about
 business                    going to have to do.                                                   security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the         What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud         legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?          environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           How should I get started?                                              VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            It's easy to get overwhelmed by all this cloud stuff. People
 Hybrid, etc.                ask, "Where do I get started?" The best advice I've seen is to
                             pick a use case that's not being met by the IT organization            What is VCE?
                             today, be it application development, virtual desktops, data
 How should I                warehousing - some place where the existing approach is
 get started?                causing very cranky users. You're looking for an opportunity
                             to change all three things at the same time: How it's built,           What are other
                             how it's operated, and how it's consumed. Pick a place to              vendors doing?
                             start, and the rest is simply project management.
 My business
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                          What about
 business                                                                                           security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?          private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                          Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                      interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                          these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                           My software
 vBlock?                                                                                             vendors don’t
                                                                                                     support
                                                                                                     virtualization or
 I get lost in all           I get lost in all the terms: Private, Public,                           VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,
                             Hybrid, etc.
 Hybrid, etc.
                             Lots of jargon in the air when we're talking about clouds:
                                                                                                     What is VCE?
                             Public, Private, Hybrid. What's going on here? I try to keep it
                             simple. A cloud basically has three attributes. It's built
 How should I                differently - pools of resources. It's operated differently -
 get started?                end-to-end services. And it tends to be consumed differently
                                                                                                     What are other
                             - convenient for you, convenient for your end-users. If you're          vendors doing?
                             in charge of your cloud, we call that a private cloud. If you
 My business                 have given that control to somebody else, we call that a
 users want                  public cloud. And if you can mix the two, we sometimes call
 dedicated                   that a hybrid cloud. At the end of the day, a cloud is a cloud          What about
 business                    is a cloud.                                                             security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                     My IT funding
                                                                                                     model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                        for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud          How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                           We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a          different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                                to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?           private cloud?
Why should I do          What makes a                                         Why all the          What about my
                                                  How do you sell
this with VMWare,         private cloud                                     interest in cloud          legacy
                                                  this business?
  Cisco & EMC?               private?                                         these days?           environment?


 What is a                                                                                          My software
 vBlock?                                                                                            vendors don’t
                                                                                                    support
                                                                                                    virtualization or
 I get lost in all           What is a vBlock?                                                      VMWare.
 the terms:
 Private, Public,            Everyone is intrigued by this vBlock thing. What is it? Pre-
 Hybrid, etc.                integrated infrastructure - servers, storage, virtualization,
                             management - everything you need for a private cloud model,            What is VCE?
                             ready to go, out of the box. Where it fits in is with IT
 How should I                organizations that are in a hurry. They understand they need
 get started?                to get to a private cloud model, they don't have a lot of time,
                             and they don't have a cycles to spare. Put a vBlock on the             What are other
                             floor and you're off the races. It shifts the focus from               vendors doing?
                             building technology to using it, and that's what cloud's all
 My business                 about.
 users want
 dedicated                                                                                          What about
 business                                                                                           security?
 assets that
 they own.
                                                                                                    My IT funding
                                                                                                    model is all wrong
 Who can help                                                                                       for this approach.
 me?


                                               How does a private cloud         How is storage
What customers       What new skills and                                                          We’re not organized
                                                fit into the whole “as a         different in a
are doing this?       roles are needed?                                                               to do this.
                                                  service” discussion?          private cloud?

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20 Questions & Answers About The Cloud with Chuck Hollis VP & Global Marketing CTO

  • 1. The Career Center bit.ly/GSCareers 20 Questions & Answers About The Cloud with Chuck Hollis VP & Global Marketing CTO
  • 2. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support About This Guide virtualization or I get lost in all VMWare. the terms: This guide is transcribed from the fantastic Virtual Chuck Private, Public, video series – 20 questions with Chuck Hollis, EMC VP and Hybrid, etc. Global Marketing CTO. What is VCE? You can read the whole thing start-to-finish, or click on one How should I of the questions to jump straight to the answer. get started? To watch the Virtual Chuck videos, visit What are other www.emc.com/campaign/global/virtual-chuck/index.htm. vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 3. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all Why should I do this with Intel, VMWare, VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Cisco and EMC? Hybrid, etc. Each is a leader in their respective industries. By coming What is VCE? together, we believe we can accelerate this transition, so that clouds can be real for our customers this year and next How should I year, rather than three or four years later. get started? What are other vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 4. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What makes a private cloud private? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Basically IT is in control - IT is in control of the service levels, Hybrid, etc. the information placement, security, GRC - just as though it was in a traditional IT setting. Most enterprise IT people What is VCE? can't give up control, which is why private clouds are so How should I interesting. get started? What are other vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 5. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all How do you sell this business? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, One of the classic mistakes we see when IT starts talking Hybrid, etc. cloud to the business is that they make it all about cheaper IT. Sure, the business wants to save money. Who doesn't? What is VCE? But it's more about better IT - faster, more responsive, more How should I agile, more secure. To the extent that you can frame your get started? discussions with business stakeholders around better IT, rather than just cheaper IT, you'll have a lot more luck going What are other forward. vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 6. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all Why all the interest in cloud these days? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Everybody involved in IT has figured out that something's in Hybrid, etc. the air... cloud. It's an opportunity to do what we've done before, but do it faster, better and cheaper, rewiring how we What is VCE? build IT, how we operate IT, and how we consume IT. How should I Whether you're on the IT side or the business side, things get started? are changing. What are other vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 7. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What about my legacy environments? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, You can't have a serious cloud discussion without talking Hybrid, etc. about the legacy. What I see customers doing is building their new legacy - the new platform they're going to use for What is VCE? all their new applications and all the new work being thrown How should I at them by the business. get started? Over time, as you feel more comfortable in this new platform, What are other you incrementally re-platform the old stuff as it makes vendors doing? economic and/or technical sense. There's no rush. The My business question is getting started, and that's what we see users want customers doing today. dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 8. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all My software vendors don’t support VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, virtualization or VMWare. Hybrid, etc. I'd like to say the whole industry is behind the cloud, but a What is VCE? lot of customers have told us that they're noticing some foot dragging from some traditional software vendors. Either How should I they're against virtualization, they're against variable get started? consumption models, or a little bit of both. There's no What are other simple answer to this. Things must change. Things will vendors doing? change. The question is, "How do you accelerate change?" My business One of the smartest things I've seen customers do is put users want competitive stacks of software next to the legacy choices, dedicated just to send a message that there's more than one way of What about business doing things. security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 9. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What is VCE? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, VCE is a joint venture between three technology companies, Hybrid, etc. whose sole mission is to accelerate this transition to private cloud models. The infrastructure product is a vBlock, and What is VCE? they've wrapped around not only the services but the How should I partner ecosystem so we can make this transition happen as get started? quickly as possible. It's the best of the best from Intel, VMWare, Cisco and EMC. Prefab and ready-to-consume with What are other one point of contact. vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 10. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What are other vendors doing? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Just about every vendor in the IT industry is starting to Hybrid, etc. realize the cloud is a big deal. Unfortunately, most of them are positioning it as a technology thing rather than an IT What is VCE? organizational thing. My hope is that over the next few years How should I IT vendors realize it's more about the IT organization get started? transforming than the technology itself. What are other vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 11. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What about security? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Security in the cloud? Let me tell you one thing for sure: It is Hybrid, etc. not a technology problem. We have the technologies, and in many cases they're better than what we use in the physical What is VCE? world today. We believe the challenge is maturity of process How should I - the ability to have security organizations understand this get started? new world, and the methodology required for securing their new environment when the resources move back and forth. What are other We've got hundreds of customers who are doing it today, so vendors doing? we want to make sure the discussion stays focused where it My business belongs: On the processes rather than the technology. users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 12. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all My IT funding model is all wrong for this VMWare. the terms: approach. Private, Public, Hybrid, etc. When we talk about clouds we're really talking about a shared service. One of the things that frequently comes up is What is VCE? the legacy funding model. Historically, business had a How should I project, got some funding, picked out some toys, and get started? handed them over to the IT guys. The IT organization says, What are other "The funding model has to change if I'm going to go do vendors doing? cloud." What I find interesting is that in other parts of the IT My business landscape they're already using a shared funding model. users want Networks, email, collaboration, other kinds of tools already dedicated use a shared funding model. The funding models you need What about business are already there. You just have to apply them to this new security? assets that use case. they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 13. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all We’re not organized to do this. VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Around about the second or third really serious cloud Hybrid, etc. discussion, it dawns on IT leadership that you might not be organized to go do this. The initial reaction is, "How do we What is VCE? take this ginormous IT organization and incrementally move How should I it forward one step at a time?" The better answer is, "How do get started? you break off a smaller team that plays by different rules, using different technologies, around different use cases, What are other that can speed ahead?" The difference in these two vendors doing? approaches means the difference between getting results in My business quarters and months rather than years. users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 14. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all How is storage different in a private VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, cloud? Hybrid, etc. Storage is different in a private cloud. It's built differently, What is VCE? it's operated differently and it's consumed differently. Built differently: Pools of resources, automatic tiering, not a lot of How should I hands-on. Operated differently: A lot of the traditional get started? storage functions now show up elsewhere in the stack - What are other either for the virtualization admin or the converged vendors doing? infrastructure admin. Consumed differently: Storage My business resources are provided on-demand when the application users want needs them - not provisioned ahead of time. Storage is very dedicated different in the private cloud because it's built differently, What about business operated differently, and consumed differently. security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 15. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all How does a private cloud fit into the VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, whole “as a service” discussion? Hybrid, etc. There's a lot of chatter in the industry around IT as a service - What is VCE? infrastructure as a service, platform as a service, software as a service, user experience as a service. What a private cloud How should I allows an IT organization to do is tackle all of these at the get started? same time - to be able to take any part of the it infrastructure What are other and deliver it as a service, whether they do that internally, or vendors doing? using a compatible service provider. Private clouds enable IT My business as a service. users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 16. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What new skills and roles are needed? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, If cloud is about built differently, operated differently, Hybrid, etc. consumed differently, you don't have to get too far before you realize entirely new skills and roles will be needed in the What is VCE? IT organization. In general they don't tend to be the narrow How should I silos - the technology experts of the past. They tend to be get started? people who understand a little bit about a lot of things, and can connect that in a process or an outcome. These new skill What are other sets are very much in-demand in many IT organizations vendors doing? today - something that we'll probably see for the next five My business years. users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 17. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What customers are doing this? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, A couple of years ago it would be pretty unique to meet a Hybrid, etc. customer who was pushing virtualization so hard that they would get to a private cloud model. Now it's commonplace. What is VCE? We find it in just about every geography, every vertical, every How should I corner of the world, large companies, medium-sized get started? companies, small companies. Everyone is starting to realize there's a better way to do IT, and they've all started to make What are other their steps along the way to their private cloud. vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 18. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all Who can help me? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Most IT organizations realize they need some help in order Hybrid, etc. to make the transition work. In addition to all the usual suspects, there's now a new set of sources. In general, look What is VCE? for consulting organizations that see this as more about How should I processes and outcomes rather than just putting a bunch of get started? new technology on the floor. At the end of the day, technology really isn't the issue here, it's how we use it to What are other achieve business results that people are after. vendors doing? My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 19. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all My business users want dedicated IT VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, assets that they own. Hybrid, etc. What do you do when a business unit demands to see their What is VCE? stuff - their servers, their storage, the stuff they paid for? Well part of that's the funding model, but the other half is How should I the ability for IT to train users to demand services, and not get started? how they're implemented. We've been successful in other What are other areas of the technology landscape. I don't see a whole lot of vendors doing? private, dedicated networks. I don't see a whole lot of My business private, dedicated phone systems. I know the opportunity is users want there. The successful IT organizations that I see work to dedicated build trust over time, and I think that's what most of us are What about business going to have to do. security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 20. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all How should I get started? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, It's easy to get overwhelmed by all this cloud stuff. People Hybrid, etc. ask, "Where do I get started?" The best advice I've seen is to pick a use case that's not being met by the IT organization What is VCE? today, be it application development, virtual desktops, data How should I warehousing - some place where the existing approach is get started? causing very cranky users. You're looking for an opportunity to change all three things at the same time: How it's built, What are other how it's operated, and how it's consumed. Pick a place to vendors doing? start, and the rest is simply project management. My business users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 21. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all I get lost in all the terms: Private, Public, VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Hybrid, etc. Hybrid, etc. Lots of jargon in the air when we're talking about clouds: What is VCE? Public, Private, Hybrid. What's going on here? I try to keep it simple. A cloud basically has three attributes. It's built How should I differently - pools of resources. It's operated differently - get started? end-to-end services. And it tends to be consumed differently What are other - convenient for you, convenient for your end-users. If you're vendors doing? in charge of your cloud, we call that a private cloud. If you My business have given that control to somebody else, we call that a users want public cloud. And if you can mix the two, we sometimes call dedicated that a hybrid cloud. At the end of the day, a cloud is a cloud What about business is a cloud. security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?
  • 22. Why should I do What makes a Why all the What about my How do you sell this with VMWare, private cloud interest in cloud legacy this business? Cisco & EMC? private? these days? environment? What is a My software vBlock? vendors don’t support virtualization or I get lost in all What is a vBlock? VMWare. the terms: Private, Public, Everyone is intrigued by this vBlock thing. What is it? Pre- Hybrid, etc. integrated infrastructure - servers, storage, virtualization, management - everything you need for a private cloud model, What is VCE? ready to go, out of the box. Where it fits in is with IT How should I organizations that are in a hurry. They understand they need get started? to get to a private cloud model, they don't have a lot of time, and they don't have a cycles to spare. Put a vBlock on the What are other floor and you're off the races. It shifts the focus from vendors doing? building technology to using it, and that's what cloud's all My business about. users want dedicated What about business security? assets that they own. My IT funding model is all wrong Who can help for this approach. me? How does a private cloud How is storage What customers What new skills and We’re not organized fit into the whole “as a different in a are doing this? roles are needed? to do this. service” discussion? private cloud?