Xenophon and Plato, Socratic Dialogue, Symposium, Romantic and Carnal Love, Part 1

Today we will learn and reflect on the Socratic
dialogues by Xenophon and Plato, the Symposium, or
dinner party, though drinking party is the more
accurate translation. These two symposia have
different guest lists, and in the first video we listen to
speeches by the guests, many of these speeches
dwell on love we show to our lovers and friends, and
family members. These speeches, though flawed,
prepare us for Socrates’ speech on Divine Love.

These Socratic dialogues were written shortly after
the overthrow of the Thirty Tyrants, and shortly after
the subsequent trial and execution of Socrates. The
Thirty Tyrants who were put in office by Sparta after
she won the Peloponnesian Wars.

At the end of our talk, we will discuss the sources
used for this video. Please feel free to follow along
our PowerPoint script posted to SlideShare. Please,
we welcome interesting questions in the comments.
Let us learn and reflect together!

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One of Plato’s most notable Socratic Dialogues was his Symposium, or dinner party,
though the Greek is better translated as drinking party. In the Platonic Symposium,
the aristocratic dinner guests are still hung over from the Symposium from the prior
night, so they decide on a quiet evening without the flute girls and entertainment, a
Symposium that is more of a wine sipping party where the guests offer light-hearted
speeches on the aspects of love, concluding with a deeply philosophical speech by
Socrates on the Divine Love that subsumes and transcends romantic or carnal love.
We will first reflect on Xenophon’s Symposium. Most scholars agree that Xenophon
read Plato’s Symposium, and although he doesn’t dispute Plato’s account, he wants
to add his own perspective. Xenophon’s Symposium also has Socrates as the star
guest who delivers a concluding speech, his Symposium differs in that the flute girls
and entertainers make his dinner party more entertaining. Apart from Socrates,
each Symposium has its own guest list, and the guests in Xenophon’s Symposium
tell us “what beneficial thing they are most expert in.”

Socrates Address, by Louis Joseph Lebrun, 1867

When reading these dialogues, keep in mind that the speeches by the
guests preceding Socrates are either simplistic or flawed, or both, and
they often describe sensual love, which can be partially noble, which are
contrasted to the purely noble and Divine Love described by Socrates.
These are two very different dinner parties, one featuring the Platonic
Socrates, the other featuring Xenophon’s more Stoic Socrates, although
you could argue that, in some ways, the Platonic Symposium is more
Stoic than many scholars realize. Although by the time of the Emperor
Marcus Aurelius the Platonists and Stoics were differing schools of
philosophy, we prefer to argue that moral philosophy was core to both
Xenophon’s Socrates and Plato’s Socrates.

Plato's Symposium, by Anselm Feuerbach, 1869

Drunken Alcibiades interrupting Symposium, Pietro Testa, 1648

You can read this list of speakers in Xenophon’s
Symposium in our PowerPoint script uploaded to
SlideShare, the guests include Socrates, Antisthenes,
the founder of the Cynic School of Philosophy, the
one of the Thirty Tyrants, plus several guests whom
the Thirty Tyrants executed.

(REPEAT) These are the guests and speakers of Xenophon’s Symposium:
• Socrates is the last and main speaker.
• Callias is an exceptionally rich Athenian who is the host of the party.
• Antisthenes is a student of Socrates who founded the Cynic school of philosophy. Many Cynic
teachings are adopted in the next generations by Zeno, the founder of Greek stoicism.
• Charmides was one of the Thirty Tyrants who were responsible for the deaths of Niceratos and
Autolycus. Charmides was killed with Critias in the battle between the democratic Thrasybulus
and the Thirty Tyrants.
• Niceratus is son of the most prominent general in Athens, who is later killed by the Thirty
Tyrants.
• Autolycus, son of Lycon, is the attractive young winner of the pankration athletic contest, who
was later killed by the Thirty Tyrants.
• Lycon, proud father of Autolycus. Scholars debate whether he was one of Socrates' prosecutors
at his trial and execution or was another Lycon.
• Critobulus and Hermogenes were students of Socrates.

A female aulos-player entertains men at a symposium, circa 420 BC
These are the guests and speakers of Xenophon’s Symposium:
• Callias is a rich Athenian who is the host.
• The Cynic Philosopher Antisthenes is a student of Socrates.
• Charmides was one of the Thirty Tyrants, who executed
Niceratos and Autolycus.
• Niceratus is son of the most prominent general in Athens,
who is later killed by the Thirty Tyrants.
• Autolycus, son of Lycon, winner of the pankration athletic
contest, who was later killed by the Thirty Tyrants.
• Lycon, proud father of Autolycus, may have been one of
Socrates' prosecutors at his trial and execution.
• Critobulus and Hermogenes were students of Socrates.

The host of the Symposium, Callias, has a bit of a crush on
Autolycus, though this is subdued in the story, he never
addresses him in the dialogue. The young teen Autolycus
sat down next to his father, Lycon, and later in the
dialogue, Lycon says he is most proud of his son, and his
son, Autolycus, his father. Later, Autolycus would be killed
by the Thirty Tyrants. One of Socrates’ prosecutors was
named Lycon, scholars are not sure if this is the same
Lycon.

Slave attending to a
vomiting symposiast.

Slave attending to a
vomiting symposiast.
A female aulos-player entertains men at a symposium, circa 420 BC Autolycus’ modesty was regal, “his good looks
drew everyone’s attention,” “there was not a
man there whose feelings were not moved at
the sight of him, some became more silent.”
Xenophon comments that “those who are
inspired by a discreet love wear a kindlier
expression, speak in a gentler tone, and
behave in a manner befitting a free man.”

This just sounds creepy to many modern ears. But
there is no doubt that homosexuality was more
accepted in the ancient world, quite often an older
man would pursue a teenager, often with the
permission of the boy’s father, and he would be a
mentor to the youngster, and some of these
relationships became life-long friendships after the
younger partner matured.

(REPEAT) Our window to the past is incomplete, there were no public
opinion polls of the ancient world. There are three things we can be
certain of. One, many modern scholars who specialize in the study of
ancient sexuality are themselves homosexual and thus seek to convince
us that homosexuality was condoned by nearly everyone in the ancient
world. Second, we know that in the ancient world, just as today,
attitudes towards homosexuality varied from place to place, and from
person to person, and from time to time. Third, as the centuries
progressed, the ancients became more and more uncomfortable with
pederasty, or men-boy relationships, as they are so prone to abuse, and
the Christian antipathy to homosexuality testifies to this progressing
intolerance to pederasty.

Certainties regarding ancient
homosexuality:
• Many modern scholars who specialize
in the study of ancient sexuality are
themselves homosexual and seek to
convince us that homosexuality was
condoned by nearly everyone in the
ancient world.
• In the ancient world, just as today,
attitudes towards homosexuality
varied from place to place and person
to person in the ancient world.
• As the centuries progressed, the
ancients became more and more
uncomfortable with pederasty, or men-
boy relationships, as they are so prone
to abuse. The Christian antipathy to
homosexuality testifies to this
progressing intolerance.

Not only do these two dialogues on the Symposium
try to discover the truly divine Love, but they also
seek to discourage predatory homosexual
relationships, and Socrates is above the venial and
vulgar types of love such as this, never
consummating any homosexual relationship. Indeed,
in this part of this dialogue, Socrates said that “no
man, surely, daubs himself with scent for the benefit
of another man.”

The Abduction of
Ganymede By
Zeus as an Eagle,
by Bénigne
Gagneraux, 1782

We read moral philosophy to learn how to live a godly life, and
since these dialogues were part of the historical movement that
eventually rejected pederasty, we can easily apply these
observations to romantic relationships between men and
women, seeking the lasting platonic divine love that will outlast
the fading sensual romantic love.
Coming back to Xenophon’s Symposium, hosts of racier Greek
drinking parties would provide flute-girls and courtesans for their
drunken guests, but our host, Callias, likely knowing that Socrates
would not approve of this, instead invited a Syracusan who
provided tamer entertainment, with flute girls and acrobats.

Acrobats, by Renoir, 1879
Satyrs as tightrope acrobats, Pompeii
Antique juggling girl, by
Frederic Leighton, 1800’s

Socrates, his two Wives, and Alcibiades, by Reyer
van Blommendael, 1660's
During dinner, Socrates is asked why
he doesn’t train his difficult wife,
Xanthippe, to be less troublesome.
Socrates responds in a manner a Stoic
would appreciate, “When people
want to become good horsemen
avoid the docile horses, because if
they can manage high-spirited
horses, they can easily manage any
horse.” Therefore, “if I can put up
with my difficult wife, I shall find it
easy to get on with anybody else.”

We hope that his wife Xanthippe never discovered
that her husband Socrates compared her to a
spirited horse, which perhaps suggests that there
were limits to the wisdom of Socrates. Or maybe
that is why she is pouring water on his head in
several of her paintings.

After dinner, the speeches begin
with the host sharing his “most
valuable area of expertise.” Callias
starts with “let me tell you what I
am most proud of: I believe that I
can make people better.”
Antisthenes, the Cynic philosopher,
asks him, “By teaching them some
manual skill, or true goodness?”
Callias: “True goodness, if that
means morality.”
Antisthenes, Nuremburg Chronicle, 1493

Next it is the turn of Antisthenes, he declares that he is
most proud of his wealth, although he the admits that he
doesn’t even own an obol, he is penniless, as Cynics live as
paupers, sleeping in the city square.
In one of our earlier videos and blog we reflected on the
philosophy of Antisthenes, the founder of the Cynic school
of philosophy. The most famous Cynic is Diogenes of
Sinope, who lived in a large pot in the city square. The
Cynics accentuated the asceticism of Socrates’ philosophy.

These are some of Antisthenes’ teachings from
the work by Diogenes of Laertius:
“Pay attention to your enemies, for they are the
first to notice your faults.”
“When asked what advantage he enjoyed from
philosophy, he said, ‘To be able to live in
company with oneself.’ “
When asked what is man’s greatest blessing, he
replied, “To die happy.”
Virtue is all that is needed for happiness, “since
it needs nothing but the strength of Socrates.
Virtue is a matter of deeds, and deeds need no
abundance of words or learning.”
SAYINGS OF ANTISTHENESE

Later, Zeno and the Greek Stoics adopted much of
the Cynic attitudes and teachings, though they
preferred to live in simple huts rather than in large
pots.

Then Charmides then playfully responds that he is most proud of his
poverty. Later in the dialogue we learn he lost his considerable wealth
during the depredations of the war. Charmides was one of the Thirty
Tyrants who later executed his fellow guests, Niceratos and Autolycus,
and died in the battle with those who opposed the tyranny.
Niceratus, a prominent general, says he is most proud that he can recite
the whole of the Iliad and Odyssey, a valuable skill as many ancient Greek
works quote Homer. That is why we reflected on the histories of the
Trojan Wars, then the Greco-Persian wars where the Greeks defeated the
mighty invading Persian Empire, and then the long and complicated
history of the Peloponnesian Wars, as this history will enable you to
better understand the Platonic dialogues.

https://youtu.be/DpmuhZJUJn0
https://youtu.be/7lI2ZQ50wRc
https://youtu.be/bGHHD7XTvr0
https://youtu.be/ynIx-AVI2f8

.
479 BC: Xerxes
retreats to Persia

When Critobulus says he is most proud of his good looks,
Socrates asks him, “Can you claim that you can make us
better by your good looks?”
He answers, having successfully baited Socrates, “If I can’t, I
obviously shan’t look very good!”
For the next round, Socrates then suggests that each guest
‘demonstrates the value of what he claims to possess.’”
When the host suggests that he “’makes people morally
better’, Socrates asks him how. Callias replies, ‘by giving them
money.’
Antisthenes asks him critically, ‘Do people keep morality in
their minds or in their pockets?’
Callias explains how this improves people, ‘When they can
buy what they need, they don’t want to risk committing
crimes.’”

This is true in both the modern and ancient worlds,
those who are trapped in poverty are tempted to
steal to survive, but likely this also reflects how some
aristocrats sought to purchase some goodwill from
their followers, or from poorer citizens to keep them
from revolting against the wealthier classes.

Socrates then asks Antisthenes why “he prides
himself on his wealth, although he has such
limited means.”
Antisthenes responds, “Many wealthy consider
themselves so poor that they submit to any
hardship to increase their possessions,” “and
some despots are so hungry for wealth that they
commit far more dreadful crimes than the
desperately poor. It is need, no doubt, that drives
the poor to steal, break into houses, and kidnap;
but there are some despots who destroy whole
houses, commit mass murders, and often sell
whole populations away into slavery for the sake
of money.”

This diatribe would hit home since the wanton
executions by the Thirty Tyrants installed in Athens
by the victorious Spartan leader Lysander were
recent memories, and the many victims included
both rich and poor, some were executed for their
political opposition, many of the rich were executed
solely for their property.

Antisthenes observes further, “Those
who are more concerned with thrift
than extravagance, are likely to be far
more moral in their conduct, because
those who are most content with what
they have are least attracted by other
people’s property.” Then he says that he
has that “supreme luxury, spare time;
so, I can see what is worth seeing and
hear what is worth hearing” when “I
spend my days at leisure with Socrates.”

This dinner party of Xenophon has been leading up to the concluding
speech by Socrates, which is also a reflection by Xenophon on Socrates’
speech that he delivers in the Symposium by Plato, where Socrates and
all of the guests speak about Love, so we will first examine Plato’s
Symposium now.
PLATO’S SYMPOSIUM
In the Plato’s Symposium, there are no flute girls, no entertainers, and all
the speeches are about love.
You can read this list of speakers in Plato’s Symposium in our PowerPoint
script uploaded to SlideShare, the guests included Socrates,
Aristophanes, the comic whose play The Clouds fatally damaged the
reputation of Socrates, one of the Thirty Tyrants, plus several guests
whom the Thirty Tyrants executed.

Plato's Academy mosaic, 1st century BC from Pompeii
Socrates teaches a youth, José Aparicio, 1811

(REPEAT) These are the main dinner guests and speakers of Plato's Symposium:
• Socrates, the last and main speaker, is the only character in both Xenophon's and
Plato's Symposium.
• Agathon was a tragic poet and host of the banquet.
• Aristophanes is comic playwright whose play, The Clouds, ruined the reputation
of Socrates, and was a factor in his unjust execution.
• Phaedrus was an aristocrat who was a student of Socrates, also appearing in the
Phaedrus and other Platonic dialogues.
• Eryximachus was a physician. Phaedrus and Eryximachus may have been indicted,
as was Alcibiades, for profaning the Eleusinian mysteries before the Sicilian
Expedition.
• Pausanias was a legal expert, who is briefly mentioned in other Platonic
dialogues.
• Alcibiades, student and lover of Socrates, crashes the party. Many Athenians
blamed him for Athens losing the war.

These are the guests and speakers of Plato’s Symposium:
• Agathon was a tragic poet and host of the banquet.
• Aristophanes is comic playwright whose play, The Clouds, ruined
the reputation of Socrates, and was a factor in his unjust execution.
• Phaedrus was an aristocrat who was a student of Socrates, also
appearing in the Phaedrus and other Platonic dialogues.
• Eryximachus was a physician. Phaedrus and Eryximachus may have
been indicted, as was Alcibiades, for profaning the Eleusinian
mysteries before the Sicilian Expedition.
• Pausanias was a legal expert.
• Alcibiades, student and lover of Socrates, crashes the party. Many
Athenians blamed him for Athens losing the war.

Phaedrus, the student of Socrates who has his
own dialogue, begins the speeches by “affirming
that Love is a mighty god, and wonderful among
gods and men,” “the eldest of the gods. There is
“not any greater blessing to a young man who is
beginning life than a virtuous lover, or to the
lover than a beloved youth. For the principle
which ought to be the guide of men who would
nobly live, that principle which neither kindred,
nor honor, nor wealth, nor any other motive, is
able to implant so well as love. Of what am I
speaking? The sense of honor and dishonor,
without which neither states nor individuals
ever do any good or great work.”
Romeo and Juliet, by Ford Madox Brown, 1867

Peter Paul Rubens - Briseis Given Back to Achilles, painted 1630
Phaedrus continues, “The
courage which, as Homer says,
the god breathes into the soul
of some heroes, Love of his
own nature infuses into the
lover. Love will make men dare
to die for their beloved.” “As
greatly as the gods honor the
virtue of love, still the return
of love on the part of the
beloved to the lover is more
admired and valued and
rewarded by them, for the
lover is more divine; because
he is inspired by god.”

Phaedrus gives the example of the Iliad,
where the goddess mother of Achilles
told him he was doomed to die in battle
but would live to old age if he returned
home, but after his friend Patroclus was
killed by Hector in battle, “Achilles gave
his life to revenge his friend, and dared to
die, not only in his defense, but after he
was dead.”
Phaedrus concludes, This is why I “affirm
that Love is the giver of virtue in life, and
happiness after death.”
Goddess Thetis Bringing Armor to her
son Achilles, by Benjamin West, 1806

Two of the speakers, Phaedrus and Eryximachus, may
have been indicted, as was Alcibiades, for profaning
the Eleusinian mysteries before the Sicilian
Expedition.

Pausanias, the next speaker, says those who listen to
Phaedrus may conclude that there is only one kind of
love, whereas there are many kinds of loves, which like
many other human actions like drinking, singing, and
talking among friends can either be good or bad,
“when well done they are good, and when wrongly
done they are evil. Not every love, but only love with a
noble purpose, is noble and worthy of praise.” The
carnal, meaner love of the common Aphrodite, goddess
of love, “is only concerned with bodily pleasures, “the
love which desires only to gain an end, but never seeks
a noble end,” is not concerned whether it is good or
bad. But the noble love of the heavenly Aphrodite is
not wanton in her love. Venus Anadyomene, by Jean-
Auguste-Dominique Ingres, 1848

Here Pausanius expresses the nobility of platonic
love, where those inspired by the heavenly
Aphrodite “love not boys, but intelligent beings
whose reason is beginning to be developed, much
about the time their beards begin to grow.”
Pausanias says we should not deceive those whom
we say we love, but be faithful to them, and he
explicitly states that “the love of young boys should
be forbidden by law, because their future is
uncertain,” “and the coarser sort of lovers ought to
be restrained by force, as we restrain them from
fixing their affections on women of free birth. Such
behavior brings a reproach upon love.”
Birth of Venus, by William-Adolphe Bouguereau, 1879

Then the physician Eryximachus speaks
how love is the best medicine of all, how
the “best physician can separate fair love
from foul, or convert one into the other.”
“Wanton love, getting the upper hand,” “is
very destructive and injurious.” “Love
which is concerned with the good, which is
perfected in company with temperance
and justice, whether among gods or men,
has the greatest power, and is the source
of all our happiness and harmony, and
makes us friends with the gods who are
above us, and with one another.”
Heloise and Abelard, Jean-Baptiste Goyet, 1829.

The comic Aristophanes has the most hilarious description
of love. This is the same Aristophanes who earlier had
written a biting criticism of Socrates which deeply
damaged the reputation of Socrates. During his trial,
Socrates felt compelled to defend himself against the lies
about Socrates that Aristophanes included in the play.
Arguably, these lies and slanders in the play, The Clouds,
was a factor in the jury finding Socrates guilty of impiety
and corrupting the youth of Athens, and voting to execute
him.

There are no prisons in the ancient world, only jails, and often jails are filled
simply by those who irritate the authorities. If you break a law in the ancient
world, you are either fined, exiled, or executed, there are no long prison
sentences. The state does not have the resources to run a prison, so when
you are thrown in jail awaiting a hearing the government expects you to
visit and bring food with you to feed the prisoner, and maybe the jailers
too. We see in our video on the death and execution of Socrates how his
friends were able to come and stay with Socrates for his entire last day on
earth.
How should we interpret his advice in his epistles to the various churches?
Let us ponder the opinions of two leading scholars, one Anglican, one
Orthodox.
https://youtu.be/Mip1vgRKH1E

(REPEAT) These slanders by Aristophanes included:
Slander: Socrates was a self-serving sophist who taught for money
Truth: Socrates taught for free. We can safely speculate that this encouraged Plato to endlessly
prove in his dialogues that Socrates was not a Sophist, and that the so-called Sophist
philosophy was itself corrupt.
Slander: Socrates instructed his students how to mislead and manipulate their peers, and how
to avoid their debts.
Truth: Socrates was a moral philosopher who instructed his students how to live a godly life,
and how to participate in the democracy as a good citizen.
Slander: Socrates only cared about teaching useless knowledge about how far fleas jumped,
out of which end gnats buzzed, and gazed at and wondered about the nature of the moon.
Truth: Socrates, in his later years, only cared about teaching moral philosophy.

https://youtu.be/Pn7wYntimjo
Slanders by Aristophanes:
• Socrates was a self-serving sophists who taught for money.
• Socrates instructed his students how to mislead and
manipulate their peers, and how to avoid their debts.
• Socrates taught useless knowledge like how far fleas
jumped, and out of which end gnats buzzed.

Aristophanes begins, “Mankind, judging by their neglect of
Love, has never understood the power of Love.” “Of all the
gods he is the best friend of men, the helper and healer of the
ills that prevent the happiness of the race.” He then describes
the just-so story of how the gods altered the primeval man to
modern man. To account for both heterosexual and
homosexual love, he said there was originally three sexes, all
man, all woman, and the union of both. Aristophanes explains
that “the primeval man was round, his back and sides forming a
circle; he had four hands and four feet, one head with two
faces, looking opposite ways, set on a round neck and precisely
alike.” Comically, he could walk upright, backwards or forwards,
or he could roll at a great pace, turning on his four hands and
four feet like tumblers rolling with their legs in the air.”

But then this primeval man “attacked the
gods,” “daring to scale heaven.” So, Zeus
decided to humble this primeval man, and
cut each man in two, asking Apollo to heal
each half.
What are the origins of love in this oddball
creation story? Aristophanes tells us, “The
two parts of man, each desiring his other
half, come together, and throwing their
arms about one another, entwined in
mutual embrace, longing to grow into one.”
So now “man is always looking for his other
half.” “When one of them meets his other
half, the actual half of himself,” “the pair are
lost in an amazement of love and friendship
and intimacy, and will not be out of the
other’s sight, even for a moment.” Minerva & Triumph of Jupiter, by Rene Antoine Houasse, 1706

In Xenophon’s Symposium, the host spoke
first, but in Plato’s Symposium, the host
Agathon speaks last before Socrates on the
topic of love. Agathon says the prior
speakers, “instead of praising the god Love,
or unfolding his nature, appear to have
congratulated mankind on the benefits of
Love.” He says the god of Love is “fairest
and youngest of the gods, fleeing old age,”
“ever youthful,” “young and tender.”
Abelard and his pupil Heloise, by Edmund Leighton, 1882

Agathon continues, The god of Love
walks “in the hearts and souls of both
gods and men,” “but not in every soul,
where there is hardness he departs,
where there is softness, he dwells.” This
is a stoic god, “his greatest glory is he
can neither do wrong, nor suffer wrong
to or from any god or man.” “Not only
is Love just, but he is exceedingly
temperate, for Temperance is the
acknowledged ruler of pleasures and
desires, and no pleasure ever masters
Love; he is their master, and they are
his servants; and if he conquers them,
he must be temperate indeed.” Allegory of love: Happy union, by Paolo Veronese, 1575

Agathon continues, “Love empties men
of disdain and fills them with affection,”
“Love encourages courtesy and
discourages rudeness, is always kind,
never unkind.” “Love is the parent of
delicacy, luxury, desire, fondness,
softness, grace; encourages the good,
discourages the evil: in every word,
work, wish, and fear; is savior, pilot,
comrade, and helper. Let every man
follow in Love’s footsteps, sweetly
singing in his honor and joining in that
sweet strain with which love charms the
souls of gods and men.”
Allegory of love, Gerard van Honthorst, 1600's

Socrates then quizzes Agathon as only Socrates can on the nature of love,
and then in his speech, Socrates tells us of the lessons on love that were
taught to him by “Diotima of Mantineia, a woman wise in this and many
other kinds of knowledge,” which is a Socratic dialogue set within a
Socratic dialogue, a dialogue on Divine Love. Just as Socrates finishes his
speech, our drunken and rowdy friend Alcibiades crashes his party and is
invited to give his own speech on Love, which is really a speech
comparing his carnal love for Socrates, to Socrates divine love for
Alcibiades, and all his students, and indeed for all of Athens.
We finish with a reflection of the final speech of Socrates in Xenophon’s
Symposium, which is his summary of Socrates final speech in Plato’s
Symposium.

DISCUSSING THE SOURCES
We enjoyed listening to the lecture by Professor Michael Sugrue of the
Teaching Company, or Great Courses, but not on Wondrium, on the
Symposium, he is enthusiastically Platonic, and by listening to his lectures
you can understand how the Neoplatonists were able to elevate
Platonism nearly to the status of a religion. He and I have different
approaches, I prefer to draw out the moral lessons from all positions, so I
am concentrating more on the content. But Professor Sugrue also argues
how Plato, in this dialogue, is criticizing the shallowness of the philosophy
of the Sophists, showing how the sophist Gorgias has influenced some
speakers, and he draws out the symbolism in how the speeches are
staged and how the speakers give their speeches.

https://amzn.to/3t3Cu8w
https://www.thegreatcourses.com/courses/plato-socrates-and-the-dialogues

Since many of our videos on ancient Greece use
many of the same sources, we have a video on Book
Reviews of Ancient Greek History and Philosophy.

To find the source of any direct
quotes in this blog, please type in
the phrase to the search box in
my blog to see the referenced
footnote.
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