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@johncutlefish
cutle.fish
Learning more about you…
"professional culture clash" 
Amy Edmondson | How to turn a group of strangers into a team
“different values, different time frames, different language”
M V P
F M L
M V P
Learning more about you…
“product thinking”
The Team
“I have to figure out how to product
manage the product managers and
product leaders. Something feels off.
We’re getting beaten up over here.”
CTO
A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined specification]
B. Build something that does [specific behavior, input-output,
interaction]
C. Build something that lets a segment of customers complete [some
task, activity, goal]
D. Solve this [more open-ended customer problem]
E. Explore the challenges of, and improve the experience for,
[segment of users/customers]
F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to influence a specific business
outcome
G. Explore various potential leverage points and run experiments to
influence [specific business outcome]
H. Directly generate [short-term business outcome]
I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined specification]
B. Build something that does [specific behavior, input-output,
interaction]
C. Build something that lets a segment of customers complete [some
task, activity, goal]
D. Solve this [more open-ended customer problem]
E. Explore the challenges of, and improve the experience for,
[segment of users/customers]
F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to influence a specific business
outcome
G. Explore various potential leverage points and run experiments to
influence [specific business outcome]
H. Directly generate [short-term business outcome]
I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
A B C D E F G H I
Dev
UX
PM
A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined
specification]
B. Build something that does [specific
behavior, input-output, interaction]
C. Build something that lets a segment of
customers complete [some task,
activity, goal]
D. Solve this [more open-ended customer
problem]
E. Explore the challenges of, and improve
the experience for, [segment of users/
customers]
F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to
influence a specific business outcome
G. Explore various potential leverage
points and run experiments to influence
[specific business outcome]
H. Directly generate [short-term business
outcome]
I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
A
B
C
D
E
F
G
H
I
Team
PM
GM
Team
PM
VPoP
GM
Org 1 Org 2
Trap 1:
Contributing to high…
Work In Progress

Promises In Progress

Change In Progress
Elephants In Progress
(with best intentions)
(even though you know it is bad)
(because THEY made you do it)
(because Scrum or SAFe made you do it)
Elephants In Progress (EIP)
40 Hour Week
A
A
A A
B
B
Lunch
Diagnosing production issues
Status checks and ETA

updates for future work
Estimating future work
Meetings about future work
Waiting for CI, tooling issues
Delayed by technical debt

(not working through it)
Hiring new people

(response to “going slow”)
A Value add project A
B Value add project B
Context switching, “resetting”

Getting started, focusing
40 Hour Week
A Value add project A
B Value add project B
Context switching, “resetting”

Getting started, focusing
PRODUCTIVITY
Tech Debt Month
REDUCE DRAG MONTH
Personal Pizza Sized Teams
Lunch
40 Hour Week
Lunch
Diagnosing production issues
Status checks and ETA

updates for future work
Estimating future work
Meetings about future work
Waiting for CI, tooling issues
Delayed by technical debt

(not working through it)
Hiring new people

(response to “going slow”)
A Value add project A
B Value add project B
Context switching, “resetting”

Getting started, focusing
A B
(Credibility + Reliability + Empathy)

Apparent Self-Interest
Trust =
https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
Start together
Work together
“Finish” together
https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
Trust can be built (or rebuilt) more
effectively through small promises regularly
kept… in person, not through proxies
Lower WIP. Higher Trust. 

Start Together. Work Together. Finish Together
https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
Trap 2:
Velocity > Cadence
“Moving Around” > “True Work”
Opportunity…
AKA

“The Safe Humble-Pie”
Learn faster than you ship
Ship faster than you learn
“We know when something is working

…when we spend longer on it”
Respond
Sense
Respond
Sense
Rapid feedback loops. More repeatable wins (and bigger wins). More with less complexity.
5 4 2 6 7 3
3 2 1
3 6 7 8 2 6 10 9
6
27
49
Well oiled feature factory. Reasonably usable features. Reasonably happy customers. Occasional wins.
Difficult to get anything “out the door”. Extremely long feedback loops.
Impact
Total
Time
Can’t identify single customer facing outcome
Massive 5y lake/warehouse/BI effort
3-5 weeks for “report”
Losing passionate problem solvers
$###k is “too much”
100+ person team
10 new recs ($3m - $5m/y)
One day out of the office? Are you kidding?
That would screw up our sprint. And metrics.
Trap 3:
“Technical Backlogs”
We don’t want to show too much. Otherwise
we’ll be micromanaged. They will not
understand anyway…
Turns into … you will be micromanaged.
(Credibility + Reliability + Empathy)

Apparent Self-Interest
Trust =
https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
Opportunity vs. Intervention
The simplest prioritization:

Huge Opportunity / Experimentation Friendly
Big Opportunity / Guaranteed very small
Review:
Opportunity 1: Really lower WIP/CIP/PIP/EIP
Opportunity 2: Balance between ship/learn
Opportunity 3: Apples to Apples Prioritization

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The Three Big Eng/Prod Collaboration Traps (and What to Do About Them)

  • 2.
  • 4. "professional culture clash"  Amy Edmondson | How to turn a group of strangers into a team “different values, different time frames, different language”
  • 6. F M L M V P
  • 10.
  • 11. “I have to figure out how to product manage the product managers and product leaders. Something feels off. We’re getting beaten up over here.” CTO
  • 12. A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined specification] B. Build something that does [specific behavior, input-output, interaction] C. Build something that lets a segment of customers complete [some task, activity, goal] D. Solve this [more open-ended customer problem] E. Explore the challenges of, and improve the experience for, [segment of users/customers] F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to influence a specific business outcome G. Explore various potential leverage points and run experiments to influence [specific business outcome] H. Directly generate [short-term business outcome] I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
  • 13. A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined specification] B. Build something that does [specific behavior, input-output, interaction] C. Build something that lets a segment of customers complete [some task, activity, goal] D. Solve this [more open-ended customer problem] E. Explore the challenges of, and improve the experience for, [segment of users/customers] F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to influence a specific business outcome G. Explore various potential leverage points and run experiments to influence [specific business outcome] H. Directly generate [short-term business outcome] I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
  • 14.
  • 15. A B C D E F G H I Dev UX PM A. Build exactly this [to a predetermined specification] B. Build something that does [specific behavior, input-output, interaction] C. Build something that lets a segment of customers complete [some task, activity, goal] D. Solve this [more open-ended customer problem] E. Explore the challenges of, and improve the experience for, [segment of users/ customers] F. Increase/decrease [metric] known to influence a specific business outcome G. Explore various potential leverage points and run experiments to influence [specific business outcome] H. Directly generate [short-term business outcome] I. Generate [long-term business outcome]
  • 17. Trap 1: Contributing to high… Work In Progress
 Promises In Progress
 Change In Progress Elephants In Progress (with best intentions) (even though you know it is bad) (because THEY made you do it) (because Scrum or SAFe made you do it) Elephants In Progress (EIP)
  • 18.
  • 19. 40 Hour Week A A A A B B Lunch Diagnosing production issues Status checks and ETA
 updates for future work Estimating future work Meetings about future work Waiting for CI, tooling issues Delayed by technical debt
 (not working through it) Hiring new people
 (response to “going slow”) A Value add project A B Value add project B Context switching, “resetting”
 Getting started, focusing
  • 20. 40 Hour Week A Value add project A B Value add project B Context switching, “resetting”
 Getting started, focusing PRODUCTIVITY
  • 21. Tech Debt Month REDUCE DRAG MONTH Personal Pizza Sized Teams Lunch
  • 22. 40 Hour Week Lunch Diagnosing production issues Status checks and ETA
 updates for future work Estimating future work Meetings about future work Waiting for CI, tooling issues Delayed by technical debt
 (not working through it) Hiring new people
 (response to “going slow”) A Value add project A B Value add project B Context switching, “resetting”
 Getting started, focusing A B
  • 23. (Credibility + Reliability + Empathy)
 Apparent Self-Interest Trust = https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
  • 24. Start together Work together “Finish” together https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
  • 25.
  • 26.
  • 27. Trust can be built (or rebuilt) more effectively through small promises regularly kept… in person, not through proxies Lower WIP. Higher Trust. 
 Start Together. Work Together. Finish Together https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
  • 28. Trap 2: Velocity > Cadence “Moving Around” > “True Work”
  • 30. Learn faster than you ship Ship faster than you learn
  • 31. “We know when something is working
 …when we spend longer on it”
  • 33. Rapid feedback loops. More repeatable wins (and bigger wins). More with less complexity. 5 4 2 6 7 3 3 2 1 3 6 7 8 2 6 10 9 6 27 49 Well oiled feature factory. Reasonably usable features. Reasonably happy customers. Occasional wins. Difficult to get anything “out the door”. Extremely long feedback loops. Impact Total Time
  • 34.
  • 35. Can’t identify single customer facing outcome Massive 5y lake/warehouse/BI effort 3-5 weeks for “report” Losing passionate problem solvers $###k is “too much” 100+ person team 10 new recs ($3m - $5m/y)
  • 36. One day out of the office? Are you kidding? That would screw up our sprint. And metrics.
  • 37.
  • 39.
  • 40.
  • 41.
  • 42.
  • 43. We don’t want to show too much. Otherwise we’ll be micromanaged. They will not understand anyway…
  • 44. Turns into … you will be micromanaged.
  • 45. (Credibility + Reliability + Empathy)
 Apparent Self-Interest Trust = https://www.devsecopsdays.com/articles/trust-algorithm-applied-to-devsecops
  • 46. Opportunity vs. Intervention The simplest prioritization:
 Huge Opportunity / Experimentation Friendly Big Opportunity / Guaranteed very small
  • 47. Review: Opportunity 1: Really lower WIP/CIP/PIP/EIP Opportunity 2: Balance between ship/learn Opportunity 3: Apples to Apples Prioritization