Interview with Nadav Poraz, founder & CEO of WhoSampled.com, from June 2012.

1. INTERVIEW the REPORT | 21 June 2012 | Page 4
Nadav Poraz, founder, WhoSampled
WhoSampled was set up three that is a part of the same concept of music How do you do this?
years ago to create a UGC DNA. By having samples, covers and remixes,
“Everything is manually checked.
we have a good mapping out of music DNA.”
database of samples in music, We have a very small core
pinpointing which tracks have Could it be described as being like a super-
team but we took on a team of
been sampled and where. powered Shazam?
moderators who were super-
users of the site. There are
With its new iPhone app “We don’t do fingerprinting like Shazam does, volunteers spread all over the
launching this week, it is looking but we have a complimentary approach to world. There are about 50-60 at
to move beyond the community music discovery and we dig deeper into the any given time who are active
focus that its rise was built upon, music. If Shazam knows what a song is, we and process all the incoming
making a play for a broader know what’s inside the song. We go one level submissions. We vet them very
deeper. carefully.
audience and fulfilling a role
akin to a Shazam for sampling. The way to do that is to crowd-source that Nothing gets published until it is
information as there really isn’t a technology verified and checked. Mistakes
Founder Nadav Poraz explains how a Spotify
that exists today algorithmically that find can happen but we try to fix them as soon as catalogues. It’s not something you want to
app is next, where labels come and in and
out all the samples as they are very often we know about them. We continually sculpt it get into unless it really makes sense.”
why scanning from streaming service data
chopped up, remixed or even reversed. That’s to make it as accurate as possible.”
(as opposed to a user’s iTunes collection) will
why you need the human ear to identify the Daren Tsui Would you want to, rather than license
better reflect changing audience behaviour.
samples. Would you use fingerprinting to allow users their technology, be acquired by Shazam or
to tag tracks and then see the samples? Or SoundHound?
What is WhoSampled and why did you set We wanted to be the music DNA brain of the
partner with Shazam?
it up? universe where everything goes in there and “You should speak to them about that! Any
gets processed. But we realised very early on “That would be an incredible user experience start-up thinks about a potential acquisition
“We have created a unique music discovery or growing into a substantial business by
that we need to have strict quality control as for music fans. We have definitely looked at
service that celebrates the connections in itself.
what might seem like a sample is actually just different options of the app and concluded
music between artists, songs and genres.
vague similarities between songs. that to try and become a Shazam competitor
We are perfectly happy providing music fans
We started out focusing on mapping samples is extremely expensive.
We try to be very strict and keep it factual. with something they enjoy, that is useful and
to create the world’s biggest database of that brings value to the music industry in a
We are focused on clear, deliberate, factual There are companies like them and
sampling with very granular metadata that new way. We are very confident doing that
references between songs. Now we have SoundHound who already do it so well. They
allows the listener to appreciate what the but whatever happens happens.”
over 150,000 tracks in our database, we have amazing technology and amazing
sample is, what the influence was and how it
have mapped a good chunk of the history of
was used.
sampling. It is getting harder to weed out the
Then we gradually grew into introducing inaccurate stuff from the quality stuff.” “If Shazam knows what a song is, we know what’s
cover versions and remixes as we think all of inside the song.”

2. INTERVIEW the REPORT | 21 June 2012 | Page 5
continued…
Ad revenue and affiliate payments are very
“We are working on an app for Spotify” granular. Will you offer a premium tier?
“We are doing two things around that right
now. One of them is the app, which is a paid
What is your own business model? Our biggest value-add to the music industry
app. It is an ad-free, premium experience and
is that we give exposure to back catalogue
“So far we have been monetising through that will cost £1.99 in the UK and $2.99 in the
that in other ways wouldn’t really get that
display advertising on the site. That is US. That is going to be a revenue stream for
kind of exposure.
our main revenue stream. We have done us, but more than anything initially it is to
some interesting takeover campaigns and We bring the new fans to hip-hop, electronic cover our development costs.
integrations for big brands. We also have music and even rock to appreciate the roots
The other area is the fact there is now a lot
affiliate links to music stores like iTunes and of the music they like. When they discover
of value in our data. We may release a public
Amazon– and even eBay if you want to buy the source of the samples, they buy the
API for non-commercial purposes and we
second-hand vinyl originals. That’s a compelling argument
do a lot of educational and non-commercial
to tell the labels that own the catalogues
We are driving pretty substantial sales for the work. We are always happy to provide the
that sampling is really beneficial. Sales are
industry. It’s obviously not massive, but it’s data on that basis. But for any brands or
generated.”
value that didn’t really exist before. labels who want to leverage that data for
commercial purposes, our API is going to be
offered on a commercial basis.”
On the topic of apps, your app has just what you are doing and have followed all
launched, but initially only on iPhone. Why? the standards, then you don’t need to be
concerned about that.
“We haven’t really started work on
developing the Android version. But, with the The reason we focused on the iPhone first
iPhone version, we have the blueprint. You is because, for music lovers, it is the phone
want to be on as many devices as possible, they use because of the tight integration
but it takes a lot of resources to get it right with iTunes. We wanted to do the library
and there are a lot of companies struggling scan so it was straightforward and is why we
with it. went iOS first. But we do want to be on other
platforms.”
We know that Android is going to be trickier
in that respect. With the Apple App Store,
What apps are next?
you are worried you are going to put in a
lot of work and then possibly have to make “Android is next but we also want to create
massive changes. But if you are confident in a version of the app specifically for the iPad.

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continued…
the needs of the ecosystem. scanning of your own music collection is brings out the most popular samples on the
One of the great things Spotify about personalisation. It gives users an easy planet right now.
launched recently was the way in – they have their own collection and
Then there is the historic stuff which
embeddable play button. they start from there.”
is important for us to cover and be a
It was exactly what we wanted comprehensive source of music DNA.”
to use on the site. Before that Will the app be able to scan what a user
plays on an app like Spotify, Deezer or Rdio
we were using third-party Few apps are used more than once. Are you
instead of their iTunes?
streaming services – and we worried?
always made sure we used “We are starting with the iTunes library but
“Any music app, apart from maybe the
the licensed ones. But in many next on the agenda is to integrate with more
subscription service ones, built around
cases we didn’t have the services so you can import your history and
discovery does not have the same stickiness
streams and if we can replace preferences. All those services have an API
as a game. Nothing comes close to sticky
them with the Spotify play that allows that. They will be a part of the
games. I think we are going to be like Shazam
button, that’s great. app.”
– an app every serious music fan needs on
Spotify is increasingly their phone.
A big part of the app is signing in with
But we’d need to come up with something powering more of our streams. In terms of Facebook. Is the idea of frictionless sharing It’s probably something you will fire up five
different and special. One thing we need to the Spotify app, we are very happy to partner causing too much spam? or six times a month if you are a serious
explore seriously is ways to visualise our on all sorts of initiatives and take certain
“Frictionless sharing is a very new thing. music fan. We might not be on every user’s
data. parts of our database and get it to power all
Initially there was a lot of positive reaction home page on their phone – but being on the
sorts of music discovery applications.
That data is very network-based with a lot to it – mainly from app developers who were second page is good enough for us.”
of connections and is something that could We want to do a Spotify app as we appreciate evangelising about how well it had done
be visualised very nicely. That means the the scale Spotify has, but we also need to be for them. We are being really responsible in Will you get involved with Music Hack Day?
exploration can become very graphical and conscious of not cannibalising our website. that we allow any user to turn off any type of “We haven’t really been so far, but we’d love
interactive. This is something the iPad can We can’t replicate the entire WhoSampled sharing they are not interested in. to be a part of that. We are getting a lot of
allow us to do. experience into Spotify without thinking
As long as you are responsible and not too interest from developers here.”
about the implications.”
This is all just on the drawing board at the spammy, you should be fine. But it could What are your conversion rates for people
moment but there is potential for us to create become boring for people and something
Why have the iTunes library sweep on the going on to buy tracks? Shazam gets 8%.
something really cool for the iPad.” they are not interested in. It’s really
iPhone app?
interesting to look at trending tracks as that “One of the disadvantages of our app is
How else are you developing your app “Our database is deceptively complex. It
strategy? might seem simple but the drill down of the
“We are working on an app for Spotify. It is a
data is very deep. It is much simpler and “We wanted to be the music DNA brain of the
cleaner than the website. Why we did the
very tech-savvy company and understands universe”

4. INTERVIEW the REPORT | 21 June 2012 | Page 7
continued…
that we are reliant on third-party streaming has all sorts of legal implications, we have micro-influences. You can see things falling in Last year we got Mark Rae from Rae &
services. The music that you can play on to be as responsible as we can in how we and out of fashion. Christian to interview members of The
the app is from YouTube, which means that present our data and what we do with it.” Mohawks who put out ‘The Champ’ in 1967
We charted the evolution of the ‘Amen!’ break
you need to be online but the quality is not which is the most sampled British record
over time. Obviously there was a huge re-
always good and it can be slow. What markets are big for you? of all time. So we had two generations of
explosion with drum & bass and jungle in the
musicians talking to each other and talking
It’s not a great experience, but with a click of “45% of our audience is from the US. That 1990s but then it dropped off as people were
about sampling.
a button you can make a purchase. I wouldn’t is our biggest territory by a mile. The UK is really tired of that sound. But then in the last
say we can see the types of conversion rates second with around 12%. It has a lot to do few years, there was a blip as it got used as a We want to give more exposure and
that Shazam is getting, but if you find a cool with where hip-hop and electronic music are retro thing. recognition to those artists who were
track a sample is from on WhoSampled’s app popular – so that includes France, Germany, sampled. With the labels, we are working on
People went back to the ‘Amen!’ break
it is much superior and more convenient to Canada and Australia. We also get substantial initiatives with two of the majors which we
because as soon as they put it in a track, they
download it and have it on your phone. traffic from Poland and Russia. will reveal soon.”
got that old school feel.”
I think we will have nice conversion rates but Traditionally the most popular artists on the
Are you always going to be a niche concern?
we can’t really say what it will be on the app site were Kanye West and Jay-Z, but now we How do you work with acts and labels and
[until it is released].” have Skrillex at number 3. There is definitely open the long tail? “We do have a challenge of consumer
a lot of interest coming from the US for all “We do get a lot of interest from artists – education here. Even the most mainstream
How has the company changed since you those artists identified with ‘EDM’.” both sampled and sampling artists. Some music consumer would be interested in the
launched in 2009? producers who have put out sampled music information around samples. We are a niche
What else could you do with your data? in the past get in touch with us and give us service right now but we have a lot of room
“Our biggest challenge was to keep up with
the full details [of what they have sampled]. to grow.
the growth of the data and make sure we “What could be interesting from our data is to
maintain quality control. When we launched look at how the genres influence each other They want to make sure they are accurately We will not be as popular as the broadest
officially in December 2009, we had 10,000 and how they correlate. So you can see, for represented. music services but in our own niche we have
tracks. Now we have over 150,000 tracks – example, when something like dubstep got a Then the sampled artists are sometimes not room to expand and do more around the
and all of that data was generated manually. lot of Bollywood influences – and we’ve seen aware of all the samples that were used and discovery experience.”
that happen with Chase & Status. they are curious to hear those samples. We
That was a huge amount of effort to shape
the community in the right way, getting We see both sides of the equation and where will sometimes interview them on the site to
the right people involved and making sure the samples come from so we can see those get their views on how their music was used.
the mechanism is efficient. We now have a
leadership position in anything to do with
sampling today.
“We now have a leadership position in anything
It’s very exciting but there is also a to do with sampling today”
responsibility around that. Because sampling