Are you trying to decide whether to pursue an MD, an MD-PhD or a PhD? Do you want to learn the differences in conducting research and the training that is involved with each of these career paths? Come to this workshop to hear the story of how one MD-PhD navigated through these questions, and about a research study (McGee and Keller, 2007) that investigated differences between MD, MD/PhD, and PhD students and their professional trajectories. This workshop was given by Michael Penn, MD-PhD, and Steve Lee, PhD.

1. MD vs. MD/PhD vs. PhD:
Which is right for you?
Steve Lee, PhD
Graduate Diversity Officer for the
STEM Disciplines
UC Davis
Michael Penn, MD, PhD
Vice President of Diversity, Outreach,
and Mentoring
Gladstone Institutes

2. Why Did I Pursue an MD-PhD?
I believed I could be a competitive applicant
I believed that I was genuinely interested in
learning science and medicine
Ego—I considered it to be the ultimate
achievement
It was FREE!!!
2
Part A:
M. Penn

3. Key Milestones During My MD-PhD
I am going to
COMPETE!
Drinking from the fire
hose
Finding my rhythm
Fearing the abyss of
graduate school
Discovering the joy of
being a knowledge
creator
Finding my depth
Resurfacing
Seeing the finish line
clearly
3

4. What Did I Ultimately Learn?
I can achieve anything!
I am more than my achievements
Living to please other people is stressful
Self care is essential to sustained performance
Burnout is avoidable
Expect to be surprised
I can’t completely predict what my future will look
like
There are no wrong decisions
I can learn from every experience
I wouldn’t change any part of my journey!
4

5. Find info on training and career options
search online, attend conferences, etc
Do informational interviews with people
talk to people at multiple stages
listen to their stories & their reflections
Consult a research study that followed
students in PhD, MD, MD/PhD programs
Try temporary experiences
summer research programs, volunteer, intern, etc
How will you decide?
5

6. Let’s consult a research study
6
Rick McGee and Jill Keller studied
students at the Mayo Clinic
They noticed significant differences
between PhD and MD students
McGee and Keller, CBE-Life Sciences
Education, 2007, p 316.
Part B:
S. Lee

7. Research Study Methods
7
Student participants (n = 26)
undergrads in summer research program
rising juniors and seniors
average GPA = 3.69
Study Design
individual interviews and open-ended questions
3 interviews: at start & end of summer, and 8-12
months after
followed participants into training (PhD, MD, or
MD/PhD) programs

8. McGee & Keller noted themes
that did NOT differentiate
Both PhD and MD students expressed strong
themes in their interviews
Self confidence
took leadership roles
asked questions pro-actively
Action-oriented
took action to improve situations themselves
8

9. They noted 5 strong themes
that did differentiate
Students who chose research training in
PhD programs expressed these themes
included those in MD programs with research
emphasis
This was in contrast to students who chose
MD programs and focused on clinical
medicine
9

10. McGee & Keller noted 5 themes
among those in research training
1. curiosity to discover the unknown (as a
motivator to do research)
2. enjoyment & persistence in problem solving
3. a high level of independence
4. the desire to help others indirectly through
research
5. a flexible, sometimes ill-defined approach
to the future
10

11. Please note these precautions:
you don’t need all themes to find a fit
not all themes were found in all research vs
clinical bound students
your interests and preferences can change
you are still growing and developing
not all MD’s just see patients
some MD’s focus on research
not all PhD’s just work on the bench
there’s lots of options after a PhD
11

12. So, how will you decide?
1. Find info on training and career options
2. Conduct informational interviews with
people doing these options
3. Consult a research study that followed
students in PhD, MD, MD/PhD programs
4. Try temporary experiences
12
Do all methods!

13. Thanks for your participation!
13
What from this session has helped?
What action items will you do?
Do you have any remaining questions?
!
!
?

14. 1
MD vs. MD/PhD vs. PhD:
Which is right for you?
Sunday, October 11, 2015
12-12:45 pm – Giedt 1002
1-1:45 pm – Giedt 1002
Description
Are you trying to decide whether to pursue an MD, an MD-PhD or a PhD? Do you want to learn the
differences in conducting research and the training that is involved with each of these career paths? Come
to this workshop to hear the story of how one MD-PhD navigated through these questions, and about a
research study (McGee and Keller, 2007) that investigated differences between MD, MD/PhD, and PhD
students and their professional trajectories.
Presenters
Michael Penn, MD, PhD
Vice President of Diversity, Outreach, and Mentoring
Gladstone Institutes
michael.penn@gladstone.ucsf.edu
Steve Lee, PhD
Graduate Diversity Officer for the STEM Disciplines
UC Davis
stnlee@ucdavis.edu
Part A:
Questions to Consider that May Give You Clues About the Right Path
1. How long do I want to be in school/training?
2. If I was wealthy, would I still pursue this career path?
3. Am I confident that I understand enough about the day-to-day lifestyles of physicians and
researchers?
4. Do I thrive when helping others directly (MD-like) or indirectly (PhD-like)?
5. Does my mind gravitate more toward knowing (MD-like) or understanding/questioning (PhD-like)?
6. Do I like structured learning (MD-like) or open-ended, exploratory approaches to learning (PhD-
like)?
7. How comfortable am I carrying educational debt?
Career Path Comparison Table
MD MD PhD PhD
Ability to create new knowledge limited high high
Self-directed learning medium mixed high
Structured learning high mixed low
Duration of study 4 years 6+ years avg. 4 - 6 years
Direct interaction with patients high high generally none
Requires significant memorization high high medium
Cohesive classmate culture high high low/medium
Flexible schedule low mixed high
Class size large mixed generally small
Small group learning varies mixed high
Debt incurred for tuition/living expenses high limited to none limited to none

15. 2
How to decide between MD vs MD/PhD vs PhD pathways:
● Find info on training and career options
○ search online, attend conferences, etc
● Conduct informational interviews with people doing these options
○ talk to people at multiple stages of their careers
○ listen to their stories and their reflections
● Consult a research study that followed students in PhD, MD, MD/PhD programs
● Try temporary experiences
○ summer research programs, volunteer, internships, etc
Part B:
Consulting a research study
“Identifying Future Scientists: Predicting Persistence into Research Training” Richard McGee and Jill L.
Keller, CBE–Life Sciences Education, 2007, Vol 6, pp 316-331.
McGee & Keller noted 5 themes differentiating those in research training (PhD)
1. Curiosity to discover the unknown (as a motivator to do research)
2. Enjoyment & persistence in problem solving
3. A high level of independence
4. The desire to help others indirectly through research
5. A flexible, sometimes ill-defined approach to the future
They observed 2 themes that did not differentiate. Both MD and PhD-bound students expressed:
• Self-confidence: took leadership roles; asked questions pro-actively
• Action-oriented: took action to improve situations themselves
Please note these precautions:
● Don’t think you need to have all features to find a fit or match
○ Not all themes were found in all research (PhD) vs clinical (MD) bound students
● Your interests and preferences can change and develop
○ You are still growing and developing
● Not all MD’s just see patients
○ Some MD’s do research
● Not all PhD’s just work on the bench
○ There’s lots of options after a PhD