A CONVERSATION WITH RAV SHALOM BER SOROTZKIN BY RABBI YITZCHOK FRANKFURTER A M I M A G A Z I N E - J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 - 2 S I VA N 5 7 7 6 הרב שלום בער סורוצקין בראיון למגזין "עמי" ערב חג השבועות התשע"ו

1. ALL
for
The
Sake
ACONVERSATIONWITHRAVSHALOMBERSOROTZKINBYRABBIYITZCHOKFRANKFURTER
OFTOrah

3. 116 A M I M A G A Z I N E / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6
’veneverbeenconventional,evenasayoungkid.Even
today I’m not your typical person. I always say it’s a
good thing there wasn’t any Ritalin around when I was
growing up, or else there would never be a makom
Torah like Ateres Shlomo. Someone who has ADHD or
ishyperactivecanaccomplishalotmorethantheaver-
agepersonbecausehenevergetstired.BaruchHashem,
I’ve been blessed with a lot of kochos.”
SittinginmyofficethisSundaymorning,RavShalom
Ber Sorotzkin tells me this with a wide grin. He has
come here directly from JFK Airport, having landed
only a few hours ago.
“I’m also a frequent flier,” I tell him. “But I’m glad
you’re a more frequent flier than I am.”
“I’m on a transatlantic flight 40 to 50 times a year,”he
says without a trace of self-pity.
“That’salmostonceaweek!”Irespondinamazement.
“Sometimes twice,” he says with a smile. “Every so
oftenIgobackandforthjusttobesomewhereforafew
hours.”
“I’mhonoredtobespeakingtosomeonewhodoesso
much for harbatzas haTorah,”I tell him. And I mean it.
“I’mmishtadel.Itryto do whatIcan.ButtheRibbono
Shel Olam does it all.
“The RoshYeshivah—and when I say the RoshYeshi-
vahImeanRavShteinman—oncetoldmethattherehas
never been aTorah network that grew as fast as Ateres
Shlomo in the entire history of klal Yisrael.
“Our mosad was established only 20 years ago and
we’realreadyupto6,000yungeleit.Thiszmanalonewe
took in another 300. The Rosh Yeshivah told me that
I have a lot of siyata dishmaya. I told him it’s not siyata
dishmaya,it’skulodishmaya.EverythingisfromHashem.
“The pasuk says,‘Yeshuas Hashem k’heref ayin,’sal-
vation can come in the blink of an eye. But there’s an
additionalpshat.Whendoestheyeshuahcome?When
we know that we need it now, this very second. Until
you’re actually down to the wire, you think you can
alwaysdosomethingtosavethesituation—thisshtick,
thatshtick.Butwhenyouneeditk’herefayin,youhave
no alternative but to turn to Hashem. If you look at
thelast20yearsyou’llseethatouryeshuoshavealways
came exactly when we thought we were on the verge
of collapse.
“I once told someone that I have proof that I’m much
morechashuvthanRavShach,”hesaysgood-humoredly.
“Why? Because they were maspid me a lot more times
thantheyweremaspidRavShach.Everycoupleofweeks
someonesays,‘Sorotzkin’sfinished.’I’vebeenwrittenoff
so many times already that it’s hard to count.”
“Yourmosadwasestablishedthroughtheassistanceof
Rav Shach?”I inquire.
“No. Rav Shteinman. Rav Chaim Kanievsky helped
me as well.”
“What about Rav Shach?”
“When I was a bachur I used to go to Rav Shach a lot
to talk to him in learning. It was part of my hyperactiv-
ity. He once told me,‘Shalom Ber, don’t look right and
don’t look left. Just look up and keep on going.’”
“YouryeshivahisnamedAteresShlomo,afterwhom?”
“RavShlomoZalmanAuerbach.There’sawholestory
behind that, but I’d rather not discuss that at this time.”
SOMETHING UNIQUE
“Yousaidthateverythingisbeingorchestratedfrom
Above.Areyoureferringtotheyeshivah’sphenomenal
growth, or your ability to raise funds and support it
financially?”
“Everything,fromtoptobottom.WehavefourTalmud
Torahs: one in Beit Shemesh, two in Bnei Brak, and one
in Kiryat Sefer, and they’re all of the highest caliber.We
havesixmesivtaswithatotalof900bachurim:Yerusha-
layim, Kiryat Sefer, Bnei Brak, Beitar, Netivot and Beit
Shemesh.Eachonehasbeenphenomenallysuccessful.
“Chronologically, our first kollel was in Beit Shem-
esh and then we established one in Beitar. Then we
branchedouttochadarim,mesivtasandyeshivosgedolos.
Our first mesivta was in Beit Shemesh as well. Every-
thing, in fact, started in Beit Shemesh, where I live.
Our mesivta in Yerushalayim followed; then we went
to Bnei Brak. Next was Netivot. Some people told me
weweren’tgoingtobematzliachinNetivotbecauseits
ALL FOR THE SAKE OF TORAH
“I

4. residents weren’t looking for that kind of
learning, but we proved them wrong.”
“You said that your mosdos are of the
highestcaliber.Inwhatwayaretheysupe-
rior?”
“Every makomTorah is choshuv. I don’t
mean to disparage any mosad. But I think
our yeshivos are the only places Hashem
has in the entire world where there isn’t
even a single cell phone. Not one mp3
player, not one newspaper, even chare-
idi ones. It’s kulo kodesh.There was never
something like that in klal Yisrael. Not
longagotherewasaterroristontheloose
in Tel Aviv. It happened on Erev Shabbos
and they didn’t find him until Monday.
The mother of one of our talmidim called
theyeshivahtodiscussherapprehension
withhersonandhedidn’tknowwhatshe
was talking about. He had no idea that
the whole country was up in arms. When
Rav Meir Soloveitchik was niftar, we got
a phone call from the father of a talmid
asking why his son hadn’t attended the
levayah. We told him that no one in the
yeshivah knew he was niftar.
“It’s mamash a makom naki. All of our
studentsarewithoutparallel.Butthemain
thingisthesimchashachaim.AteresShlomo
is a very happy place. A lot of it, I think,
hastodowiththerespectfulwaywetreat
our yungeleit. Rav Elyashiv once told me,
‘Lincoln freed the slaves; you freed the
bnei Torah.’”
“Meaning?”
“I’ll tell you what I think he meant.
Before we opened our kollel, a‘big’kollel
inEretzYisraelwasonethathad20yunge-
leit. Every rosh kollel worked very hard to
raise money, so he didn’t have time to
makeeveryyungermanfeelasiftheworld
revolved around him.We were the first to
makeyungeleitfeellikeroyalty,likesarim
of Hashem.
“Don’tforgetthatifonepersonisabsent
inakollelofonlyadozenortwoyungeleit,
itaffectstheoverallatmosphere.Ourkollel
in Kiryat Sefer has 1,000 yungeleit in its
beis midrash, some of whom are tremen-
doustalmideichachamim.Theirhasmadah
isunparalleled.It’sthebiggestbeismidrash
in Eretz Yisrael. That’s what Rav Elyashiv
meantabout‘freeingtheyungeleit.’We’ve
instilled in them vigor and purpose.
“Every year I buy 4,000 hats, jackets,
eyeglasses and pairs of shoes to distrib-
ute before Pesach. Everyone gets them,
both bachurim and yungeleit.What’s the
reason?Ifsomeoneisn’tdressedproperly,
hedoesn’tfeelgoodabouthimselfandhis
learning suffers. By giving a bachur a suit
and a hat worth 3,000 shekel, it makes
himrealizehe’snotaninanimateshtender
and that someone actually cares about
him. I can’t tell you how many problems
you can solve in a yeshivah by doing that.
“Ingeneral,thegashmiyusinouryeshi-
vos is on a very high level. We don’t want
a bachur to look to the outside world
to satisfy his material needs. This also
strengthenstheconnectiontoeachtalmid
andincreaseshissimchashachaim.Inchas-
sidisheyeshivosyoufeellikeamemberof
amiflagah,aparty.Inouryeshivah,you’re
inthemiflagahofTorah.Themilchamahis
tobecomeabiggermasmid,abiggeramal
baTorah.Wecareabouteverytalmidasan
individual,andbaruchHashem,weseethe
results. Every bachur in mesivta finishes
300 blatt by heart. In the yeshivah gedo-
lah,200bachurimfinishedKesuvos.These
guyshaveincrediblehasmadah.Theaver-
Rav Sorotzkin addressing the gathering
at a chanukas habayis

5. age bachur learns from 12 to 14 hours
a day.”
“You said that your talmidim don’t
have cell phones. With all the terror
attacks taking place in Eretz Yisrael,
maybe they should have cell phones.
There have been instances where it
saved lives.”
“We believe b’emunah shleimah in
the pasuk,‘Im Hashem lo yishmor ir…’
Theseterribletragedieshappenbecause
of bitul Torah. So the less bitul Torah
there is, the safer we are. When the
kosher cell phones first came out, Rav
Shteinman told me he wasn’t sure he
approved of them. Why? Because if
there weren’t any kosher phones, no
one would have them. Today, every
yungermanhasakosherphone,andin
the middle of being immersed in the
words of Rav Akiva Eiger, the phone
beeps in his pocket and he runs out of
thebeismidrash.Whensomeonehasa
cell phone, even if it’s kosher, he just
doesn’t have the same level of sheki-
dah. The Rosh Yeshivah told me that
the Rambam says somewhere, I think
atthebeginningofIggeresTeiman,that
one talmid chacham is more valuable
than lots of regular people. So we have
tomakesurethattheyexcel.Ifabachur
has a cell phone, he is automatically
faced with nisyonos he wouldn’t have
otherwise. It’s not the same as having
a public phone in a yeshivah, where
your conversations can be overheard
by other people. One of the first things
we daven for in the morning is not to
be brought‘into the hands of nisayon.’
Havingacellphoneissimplyanisayon.
“On the importance of each and
everybenTorah,thepasuksays,‘Lotov
heyoshaadamlevado—Itisnotgoodfor
mantobealone.’Rashicomments,‘This
issothatpeopleshouldn’tsaythereare
two authorities: the Holy One, Blessed
be He, is unique in the upper worlds
and has no mate, and man is alone
among earthly beings.’ So Rav Moshe
Shmuel Shapiro asked the Brisker Rav,
‘Isn’t there a simpler reason why man
shouldn’t be alone, for the purpose of
hemshech hadoros?’The Rav replied,
‘Thisteachesusamoiradikezach.Ifnot
118 A M I M A G A Z I N E / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6
ALL FOR THE SAKE OF TORAH
Rav Sorotzkin With gedolim: 1. Rav Elyashiv; 2. Rav Wosner;
3. Rav Nissim Karelitz; 4. Rav Chaim Kanievsky
1
2
3
4

6. forthetheologicalproblemofpeoplecon-
cluding that there are two authorities, it
would have been enough for there to be
one human being, one mensch, in all of
Creation.Hashemdoesn’tneedmorethan
onerighteouspersoninthewholeworld.’”
MEETING THE BUDGET
“If supporting a kollel of 20 yungeleit is
stressful,”I tell him,“I can hardly imagine
whatyoumustbegoingthroughtomeet
your budget.”
“Yearsago,peopledidn’tusedtogiveas
much money to supportTorah as they do
today, and those who did, wanted a lot of
kavod in return. Nowadays, not only do
theywanttogive,butthey’regivingastro-
nomical amounts—not just one or two
thousand dollars—and they’re doing it
anonymously.Theydon’twanttheirnames
on any buildings or plaques. They’re
doing it purely to be machzikTorah.True,
maybethey’llwantsomebrachosfromRav
Shteinman or Rav Kanievsky, but that’s
also ruchniyus.
“We’ve also made the entire system
more financially viable. It used to be that
there was no such thing as a network of
mosdosamongtheLitvisheyeshivos.What
wedidwasmakeallthekollelimintercon-
nected. Not only does this save money,
but it has other benefits as well. Some-
one told me that he has seven sons in
our mosdos.Theywererecentlyhomefor
Shabbos,andtheywereallabletodiscuss
thesamesugyaandmareimekomosatthe
table.Weputoutsomethingcalled‘Umka
D’shmaitsa,’ which is a compilation of
mefarshimoneverysugya.Alloftheyeshi-
vos use it, including Ponevezh and Mir.”
“What’s your annual budget?”
“It’s somewhere around $44 million,
$30millionofwhichhastoberaisedafter
tuition and the funding we receive from
the government. That’s $2.5 million a
month. It’s not easy.”
“Do you have sleepless nights?”
“In America I sleep four hours a day. In
Eretz Yisrael, I sleep an hour and a half.”
“I read somewhere that you sleep with
an oxygen tank.”
“It’s not an oxygen tank. It’s a CPAP
machine for sleep apnea. I even take it
along on the plane when I fly. But I sleep
very well, thank you. People say that if
you owe the bank $50,000, it’s your prob-
lem. If you owe the bank $50 million, it’s
the bank’s problem. If you owe $5 billion,
it’sthegovernment’sproblem.Sometimes
wedon’thaveenoughmoneyandwecan’t
pay the yungeleit. But it’s Hashem’s prob-
lem, not ours.”
“That’s when the hespedim start.”
“Yes, but we’ve experienced techiyas
hameisim many times.”
INSPIRATION
“Tell me about your background,” I
solicit.
“As a youngster I learned in my father’s
yeshivah in Telz-Stone and then in the
Brisker yeshivah of Rav Dovid Soloveit-
chik.”
“What inspired you to build up this
Torah empire?”
“You can’t do something like this with-
out being a meshuginer,” he says with
self-deprecating humor.“I guess I fit that
bill. But it’s also zechus avos,” he adds
swiftly.
“My father’s yeshivah was not so
‘RAV SHACH ONCE TOLD ME,
‘SHALOM BER, DON’T LOOK RIGHT
AND DON’T LOOK LEFT. JUST
LOOK UP AND KEEP ON GOING.’”

7. 120 A M I M A G A Z I N E / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6
Rav Shteinman addressing Rav Sorotzkin’s yeshivah

9. 122 A M I M A G A Z I N E / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6
matzliach. He once asked me,‘What’s
your zechus that you were able to do
this?’I told him it was all zechus avos.
‘And I don’t have the same zechus
avos?’he wanted to know. ‘Of course
you do,’ I replied, ‘but I have your
zechusinadditiontothezechusimofall
the Telzer doros.’Our whole mosad is
predicatedonminhageiTelz.Eventhe
doorsofthearonkodeshintheyeshivah
in Kiryat Sefer come from the original
Telz in Lita.”
“So it’s a combination of the min-
hagim of Telz and those of Brisk and
Rav Shteinman?”
“No.Theminhagimandnusachhate-
fillah are entirely Telz. But the derech
halimmud is Brisk, which you and I
heard from Rav Dovid.”
“Do you still find time to say shi-
urim?”
“Yes. I’m rosh kollel in the yeshivah
gedolah.Ioftengostraightfromtheair-
port to give a shiur. I have 11 hours on
the plane to prepare.”
“Whatdoyouconsideryourbiggest
accomplishment?”
“Being able to facilitate pure Torah
study done with tranquility and joy.
People should appreciate that there
are 58 million hours of limmud haTo-
rah every year because of this mosad.
You really have to see it to believe it.
BaruchHashem,we’veraisedthingsto
an entirely new level.”
SOUND ADVICE
“Ifsomeoneaskedyouforadviceon
howtoopenayeshivahevenifhedidn’t
havetheproperfundinginplace,what
would you tell him?”
“To make it even bigger than his
original plans. I cannot tell you how
many times I went to Rav Shteinman
because I was down to my last penny
and I was on the verge of losing my
sanity. One time he wanted to know
how many yungeleit we had; I think it
was something like 1,900. His sugges-
tion? ‘Take in another 200.’‘How can
I take in more?’ I asked. ‘I can’t even
afford the ones I have.’ He explained
that the way it works is that there’s a
certain amount of money destined to
begivenforharbatzashaTorah.IfItake
inmoreyungeleit,Hashemwilljustgive
it to our kollel instead of another one.
‘In that case,’ I responded, ‘why don’t
I take in another 10,000?’He told me,
‘Megalgelimzechusalyedeizakai.You’re
not such a big zakai!’I told him it was
comforting to know that at least I was
zakai for 200!
“Nooneshouldbenervousorappre-
hensiveaboutopeningayeshivah.You
just have to have bitachon in Hashem
andgovaiterwiththegantzehshtarkeit,
above and beyond all limitations. If
money won’t come from this gevir it
will come from another gevir. Noth-
ingistoobigfortheRibbonoShelOlam.
Onemustnevergiveintodespair.Just
dowhatitsaysinKoheles,andcastyour
bread upon the waters.”
“I remember when Rav Shneur
Kotler, zt”l, was collecting money for
Lakewood. I recently remarked to
Rabbi Aharon Kotler that his father
never got the kind of money he gets
today.”
“I’ll tell you the difference between
the two situations. Rav Shneuer was
trying to establish a new yeshivah.
There’s a difference between starting
something and building upon some-
thing that’s already established. It’s
much harder to start something from
scratch.
“On average, we’re opening a new
yeshivah every year. In the beginning,
I’m there every day to make sure that
everything runs smoothly.Then, once
it’s up and running, everything falls
intoplacebecauseallourmosdoshave
acommoncurriculum.RavShteinman
gave us an 11-year cycle of subject
matter to follow.”
“What does Rav Dovid say about
your mosad?”
“Whenever I speak to him he
ALL FOR THE SAKE OF TORAH
“I THINK OUR YESHIVOS ARE THE ONLY ONES
IN THE ENTIRE WORLD WHERE THERE ISN’T
EVEN A SINGLE CELL PHONE.”

10. expresses his amazement. He once told
my father that he’s jealous of my Olam
Haba. I told him I would be more than
willing to exchange it for his.”
“But you seek the guidance of Rav
Shteinman.”
“As far as running the mosdos, yes.
Forthepastfewdecadeshehasliterally
changedthefaceofTorahstudyaround
the world. One word from him has
builtupmymosdosaswellascountless
others,alongwithmanychesedorgani-
zations.”
“Tellmeaboutyourstudentbody.Are
there any Americans?”
“Not bachurim, but probably half of
our yungeleit are American.”
“What about Sefardim?”
“I was once talking to a Sefardi phi-
lanthropist who didn’t want to give us
moneybecausehesaidwewereanAsh-
kenazi mosad. ‘Excuse me,’ I corrected
him, ‘there are 800 Sefardi yungeleit
learninginourkollelimandwealsohave
a lot of Sefardi bachurim. Show me one
Sefardi kollel with 800 yungeleit!’I chal-
lengedhim.‘WehavethebiggestSefardi
mosad in the world.’”
COLLECTING MONEY
“YoucametoNewYorktospeakatthe
Bonei Olam dinner. What’s your rela-
tionship with them?”
“It’s a wonderful organization. I’ll tell
you a nice story. The founder of Bonei
Olam, Rabbi Shlomo Bochner, once
went to Rav Shteinman and told him
about a certain fertility treatment that’s
successful only ten percent of the time.
He wanted to know if it’s worthwhile to
pursue. Rav Shteinman replied,‘If it can
produce one Rav Akiva Eiger, wouldn’t
it be worth it?’”

11. 124 A M I M A G A Z I N E / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6
“Where did you learn English?”
“From my work. But I don’t read or
write it.”
“Are most of your donors in Amer-
ica?”
“I’dsayoverhalf,butwehavedonors
in Eretz Yisrael as well.”
“Are all of your donors frum?”
“Yes. It is said that no one who is
unlearned in Torah gives money for
Torah. Rav Shach and the Chofetz
Chaim both wrote that people with-
out zechusim have the ability to give
money for chesed, but you need spe-
cialzechusiminordertosupportTorah
learning. Rav Shteinman asks: Why
is Torah the only mitzvah you can
buy with money and make a Yissas-
char-Zevulun arrangement? Because
Hashem makes whatever is necessary
to sustain life plentiful and cheap. For
example, air is free. Next comes water,
which is relatively inexpensive, and
then bread, which costs a little more.
Youcanhavelifewithoutcertainmitz-
vos, but without Torah you can’t have
life. So Hashem enables a person who
is unable to learnTorah himself to buy
it with money.”
“What can people learn from your
success?”
“That if someone wants to build
Torahheshouldn’thesitate.Heshould
jump right in without making any cal-
culations. He should realize that he’s
not doing it, Hashem is doing it.”
“And in practical terms?”
“In practical terms you have to be
ready to go around asking people for
donations.”
“And be subjected to bizyonos.”
“You won’t believe this, but the first
time that happened to me was only
recently, right here in New York. In
21 years of doing this, last week was
the first time I was ever thrown out
of someone’s office. What happened
was, I walked into someone’s office
unannounced. When I went past his
secretary she didn’t stop me so I kept
on going. The guy was furious that
I didn’t have an appointment. He
accusedmeof‘breakingintohisoffice’
and literally threw me out, saying that
he never wanted to see me again. It
was the first time I was ever zocheh to
receive bizyonos for the sake ofTorah.
It made me happy! When I left I was
dancing as if I’d gotten a check for a
million dollars.”
“This is all so time consuming,”I say.
“Howcansomeonebearoshyeshivah
and say shiurim at the same time he’s
traveling around the world collecting
money?”
“There’s no stirah; they’re not mutu-
ally exclusive. When I see the siyata
dishmaya it gives me such joy. Some-
times I’ll run after someone for three
days; then he’ll turn around and give
me an incredible amount of money.
Peoplegivemeshunedigeamounts,in
ALL FOR THE SAKE OF TORAH
Rav Sorotzkin with Rabbi Frankfurter

12. 2 S I V A N 5 7 7 6 / / J U N E 8 , 2 0 1 6 / / A M I M A G A Z I N E 125
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the millions of dollars.
“Thetruthisthatanyonecandothis.It’s
notabigkuntz;justdecideyou’regoingto
do it and don’t stop.There’s a yungerman
named Reb Elchonon Weisbord; he’s sort
ofmycompetition.Ihave6,000yungeleit,
he has 1,800. He is an eidel, ziseh yunger-
man, not an ADHD guy like me. Baruch
Hashem, he is also successful. Hashem
showed that even a low-key, calm person
like him can do it. Everything he does is
l’sheim shamayim.”
IN CONCLUSION
“Let’s conclude with a thought lekavod
Shavuos,”I say.
“People always ask me how bnei Torah
canmakeendsmeet.Mygrandfather,Rav
Baruch Sorotzkin, zt”l, was niftar in 1979.
In 1960, someone wrote to him asking
the same question. He wrote back,‘If you
ask me the same question 40 years from
now, the answer will still be the same.The
Torahisnevergoingtochange.Theworld
ofTorah study will always survive and get
bigger and bigger.’
“The Gemara in Shabbos says that if
someone is engaged inTorah study, he is
permittedtopauseinhislearninginorder
to say Shema, but not for davening. Rav
Yochanansaysthisappliesonlytochacha-
mim like Rabbi Shimon, who engage in
Torahandnothingelse,butpeoplelikeus
arepermittedtopauseevenfordavening.
Why? BecauseTorah is not our umanus—
our primary occupation. Rashi explains it
differently. He says that because we inter-
ruptourstudyforotherthings,wehaveto
interrupt for davening as well.
“TheRambamsaysattheendofHilchos
ShemittahVeyovel that Hashem will sup-
port whoever makes learning Torah his
soleoccupation.Basically,Hashemgivesa
persontwooptionshowtolive:byengag-
ingincommerceorthroughthe‘business’
of Torah. That is the meaning of ‘Toraso
umanuso’—Torah is his source of income.
As my grandfather explained, that is why
the Torah will survive in every dor.”
“And you’re a shaliach for that?”
“If I didn’t do it, someone else would.
Hashem has many emissaries.”•