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Some Thoughts On Bitcoin

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Dan Kaminsky's thoughts on BitCoin

Dan Kaminsky's thoughts on BitCoin

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  • MichaelFuhrmann Michael Fuhrmann at Reisen macht Spass mit Pia und Dirk Now: 'supernode' Tomorrow: mobile phone Ask him again in 5 years from now. Everyone has G4 with 1GB/s on a quad-core low end smartphone. So what? Maybe he might be right for a while. But if there is 1 bad guy then 10 good guys stand up and run a 16GB, 100MBit flat, Quad-core node for $60 somethere. Internet via cable has 100Mbit for 30 bugs ... There are more supernodes out there than he is thinking. 9 months ago
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  • jooray Juraj Bednar, Partner at DIGMIA Supernodes and normal nodes are true, but it can not compare this to the normal banking system, because:

    a.) in bitcoin 'supernode' model, everyone can become a bank

    b.) you can not do fractional reserve banking easily (or if you do, it gets self-regulated like old times with no central bank)

    The difference is not that there are no banks, that's irrelevant. The difference is that there is no central bank. And that is a huge difference.
    1 year ago
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  • Joise2 Joise2 About the supernodes: I think it is a false dichotomy that the transaction network EITHER must be a completely decentralized peer-to-peer network OR a completely centralized, hierarchically structured bank network. There is a very interesting class of networks / graphs / structures called ’small world networks’. They have extremely interesting properties, for example a very high connectivity and extremely short average and maximum distances while being highly decentralized. What matters is that a subset of the nodes are strongly connected and that they have far-reaching connections. Such networks are very frequent in social relationships and many other domains. I think that such a network would not behave like a bank or a hierarchically organized army. It would be more like a village spreading rumors. 1 year ago
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  • bgeron bgeron There is serious optimization possible on the storage side. If you want to host a Bitcoin archive of all time, then yes, you have to store all blocks. If you only want to be able to verify transactions and keep a history of /your/ wallet, then it’s possible to prune old transactions: say transactions that are made obsolete by a valid transaction of more than a month old. The limiting factor is that if the block chain splits (network split, DOS attack on propagating nodes) and suddenly you discover a longer block chain with more authority, you have to be able to retrace your state to that better block chain. A month-long network split is quite unimaginable, unless you live in Egypt or something. But then you don’t receive the transactions in the rest of the world, so storage cost in that time is also reduced.

    In slide 17 you mention that SHA-256 is a poor choice of the hash, because it is quick with a GPU and it creates a shortage in GPUs. I argue that it is not a poor choice, because a quick hash means it’s quick to verify (smaller cost to run a wallet). The cost to miners is the same with SHA-256 or bcrypt, because the cost of mining (difficulty) is determined by the demand in Bitcoin, measured in USD. It’s an equilibrium: if mining is too cheap, more miners will start or miners will expand. With SHA-256 we have a GPU shortage, but with bcrypt we could have a motherboard shortage or something. Or maybe FPGAs are best for bcrypt, then we would get a shortage of those.

    You do have a point about ananonymity and Bitcoin losing the lightweight atmosphere it has now, those are big disadvantages. Interesting slides!

    Also, the people on reddit have some interesting comments: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/j9e4a/kaminsky_on_bitcoin/
    1 year ago
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  • bgeron bgeron @justmoon: The problem with overly large pools is that (I think) it’s hard to see what the pool operator does. There exist or existed auditable pools, but if I understand most pools correctly then the server sends a challenge (merkle tree hash, basically) with a nonce blank, and the miners don’t actually know what transactions they are hashing into a block.

    @vermorel: My calculations give not even that. The last 20 blocks in Block Explorer have 1086 transactions of 0.43 kB each on average, so say each transaction is half a kB. Then 2000 tps corresponds to 1 MB/s, which is 600 MB/block.

    The wiki mentions 60 GB/s, but this is assuming you want to send a 1.14 GB block to your 50 peers which still need to download the entire block, all in a minute. It’s not very likely that those 50 peers only get the data from you, BitTorrent was invented for a reason. P2P works for this kind of distribution.

    Note: it’s kind of necessary that block distribution is not too slow, because if miners (pool operators) do not have the latest block, they will generate blocks on top of an older block and we get block chain splits.
    1 year ago
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  • justmoon justmoon On anonymity: Bitcoin does not guarantee anonymity. This actually came up when we were making the ’What is Bitcoin?’ Video. We had in the script that Bitcoin is anonymous and removed it from a later version because it isn’t. You can combine Bitcoin with other technologies like Tor in order to be anonymous, but that’s beyond the scope of Bitcoin itself.


    On supernodes: As any chess player knows, the threat is greater than the execution. What matters is not how many nodes there are, but how difficult it is to start one. If I don’t like any of the VISA member banks’ policies and I want to issue my own VISA card, I have to get a banking license which usually means seven or eight digit capital requirements and licensing costs, i.e. a huge barrier to entry. For a Bitcoin node, even in the most extreme case (whole world using Bitcoin for everything) I just need a few thousand dollars worth of hardware. (Note that transaction verification and mining are split - you can start a pool without doing any mining and you can become a miner without verifying any transactions.) That is a big difference.


    On pools: Pools are not themselves powerful. They don’t have ’41%’, their members do. Meaning if a pool starts behaving in a way that does not serve the self-interest of its members it will lose hashing power quickly. So the question is not ’How big are the pools?’, but ’What is in the self-interest of individual miners?’ Certainly a complex question, but by looking at the pools you’ve completely missed it.
    1 year ago
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  • vermorel vermorel, Founder at Lokad Hum, numbers are off. For VISA amount of transactions per seconds (aka 2000tps), it's 1.14GB per Block (aka 10min), not per second. So we end up with 2MB/sec to handle all the Visa traffic. Nothing that a single server could not handle. Then, the optimization potential is much larger than that. 1 year ago
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Some Thoughts On Bitcoin Some Thoughts On Bitcoin Presentation Transcript