Episode 201 Snippets: Joe Pinchin of the Chicago Bulls

Best Of The Digital and
Social Media Sports Podcast
Episode 201: Joe Pinchin
On episode 201 of the Digital and Social Media
Sports Podcast, Neil chatted with Joe Pinchin,
Manager of Digital Content for the Chicago Bulls.
What follows is a collection of snippets from the
podcast. To hear the full interview and more,
check out the podcast on all podcast platforms
and at www.dsmsports.net.
@njh287; www.dsmsports.net

Joe’s career path
[Joe talks about developing a love of basketball]
“I initially was playing and I wanted to be a [professional] player and was fortunate enough
to play for a little while in England and around a few places and [I] got to know a little bit
about the game from a player sense. I was self-aware enough [to know] that I wasn't going
to go and make millions as a player, but I was able to be good enough to be on some teams,
[and it] allowed me to travel and meet a bunch of people and be in different places over a
period of time and hang around long enough to get to know the British infrastructure
really well. And then [I utilized] the last few years of [my playing career] to get to know the
game from an assistant coach standpoint with other teams and programs I was involved in,
from an organizational and operational running standpoint, structurally [with] how the
game was set up in England and just kept that passion for basketball going.

“From there…I wanted to make sure I put myself in a position
to stay involved in the game [following his playing career], took
a job working with Loughborough University, which is where I
was based. Essentially, it took a job to allow me to spend my
free time volunteering with the local professional franchise,
which was the Leicester Riders, which was based at the time in
Leicester, which is about 10 miles down the road from where
Loughborough University is in England. So super close by
[and] [it] had a bunch of historical ties to Loughborough .It
was where the franchise had started.

“And at the time they were looking to move and find a new
home [arena] from where they were playing. They were
playing in a very small, very old, probably one of the worst, if
not the worst venue in the professional league in England
[and] were looking to upgrade. And so I jumped onboard
there, from a volunteer standpoint, to start with, dealing with
nothing to do with digital and media, very much on the player
development pathway of Loughborough…[Joe notes players at
any age in England can be offered scholarships or payment]

His role with the Leicester Riders
“It was kind of a growth and inflection point for the Riders team [in that] they
had been in hard times [and] had a new managing director come…[who started]
to reform the franchise and start to push forward and form new partnerships;
from a sponsorship standpoint, but also from a player development standpoint
that launched our partnership with Loughborough.
“And then I got more and more involved with the club. We were a super small
staff similar to what you would see in minor league sports [in the US]. So I wore
a lot of hats — some weeks I was dealing with a pathway and things that I was
passionate about and others was going out in the community and being a coach.

And then it drifted into: we need to have more bums on the seats as a fan base. We need to
grow awareness in the city. So then it started becoming working in the marketing side of
things and growing the team, growing our fandom, starting to work with the other sports
teams in the city on different projects to align ourselves with Leicester sport.
“That kind of just kept going and kept growing. I felt I've always been someone that's been
creative, enjoyed photography, sketching, drawing, [and] painting in the past. So the ability
to be creative and make some things that ultimately help the business was fun. Something
that I kind of found a renewed love for; and it went from recording on a baseline on my
iPhone and tweeting some videos — which at the time were well-received because the league
wasn't in a great place digitally — through to learning photography basics to graphic design
basics to growing that out to be able to produce video, start to understand platforms, start to
understand marketing funnels and how it was impacting the bottom line of our business
and the growth that we needed to see to the value we added to partners as we grew from
local to international partnerships...

“It was just this perfect education, very, very unique situation to come on
board with the franchise at an inflection point, at a perfect point to grow.
[They] had a ton of success on the court, which made my life super easy at
times, from a marketing sense. We had won double digits trophies in the
senior men's league, and then a bunch of [other] trophies. I think I left and
it was like 56 national titles of the program whilst I was involved there
across the different levels.
“[I] came out of the back of it with a solid base of education around sport.
Digitally, specifically, grew into freelance opportunities [for me] across
Europe and across the world and I started to grow myself there. Then, yeah,
I ended up at the Bulls…”

About the British Basketball League
“The British basketball league is very much one of the smaller
professional sports. That said, it is growing. We saw a bunch of positive
changes and it's kind of still recovering from some hard times 20 years
ago. It still took a while to break out. You know, go back a couple of
decades it was on national television with big arenas and being played
with some big coaching salaries, big player salaries, some big sponsors
involved. And [then it] kind of took a dip. It fell off of TV, [which] hurt
a lot of sponsorship, as you can imagine, and that obviously hurt
fandom and [it has been] kind of has been recovering since.

“That said it is in England, right? So soccer dominates and you have to be
very aware that, you know, the back 10 pages of the newspaper are going
to be about soccer. Of the local sports network time, 95% is going to be
around the soccer team and basketball is competing for that chunk of that
other 5%. And so you're competing with rugby, competing with cricket.
England's a small country, Leicester isn't a massive city. It is a very very
big sporting city. You know, you Leicester the football who obviously won
the Premiership in recent times [and] have been playing in the
Champions League and are up there in the Premier League, the Leicester
Tigers, a rugby team, one of the better teams in Europe in recent years.”

“The basketball team very much sits as kind of the, potentially the third
string. Again, I'd probably have some personal bias there, but, uh, yeah in
terms of what you’re (asking), the players are full-time. Teams work far
more on a European model of trying to put together packages that allow
them to still be attractive whilst not paying big salaries. And when I say big
salaries, I'm not talking NBA levels, I’m talking, you know, [that tops out in]
six figure salaries, but players make a living that is more than comfortable.
“We as a club did a great job [taking care of players]. Our biggest sponsor
was a housing development company...so we were able to house our players
in really nice housing in the suburbs of the city….We had great partners with
car [dealers] and local restaurants. So you're able to put together a package
where their wages were very disposable for them. They weren't incurring
any costs outside of what they wanted to do with their money...

“In terms of your question around how Leicester sits within the
landscape — we were one of the better, if not the best team over the
last 10 years; arguably between us and the Newcastle Eagles...Those
are only two teams to have their own dedicated arenas that they
own…
“Those two teams are in a really great place from having
infrastructure to be able to make money around their team, but also
around other events they can host [at the arena to] have
supplementary incomes in a multitude of ways outside of just
tickets. And the no costs or risk in renting venues.

“A team in the south of England, the Plymouth Raiders, pulled out of the league
this year. Generally citing the impact of COVID and the fact they don't have their
own venue in that they're tied to the costs associated to them with the place
they're renting each week. So it's a struggle in the league — it's definitely a grind
of a sport to be involved in, in England. But it's exciting, it’s back on Sky Sports
TV this season [and the] deal continues into next year, which is great. I think it
will help them incite some new fans and incite a different fan base.
“Your point around like minor league baseball is spot on. It is, when you
compare it to soccer, for example, a much more family-friendly environment. It's
much easier. It's much more accessible. The players are much more accessible
[and the] teams do a great job making them available for autographs postgame
or sponsor photos pregame.

“From every level of being involved in the club, you can
touch it and feel it a lot more than you can, say, going to
a Premier League game, which is far closer to coming to
an NBA game here. “So it's fun to be involved in. A far
more family atmosphere, it's small companies and very
small companies, which is obviously a challenge at
times, but also incredibly rewarding when [it’s a] small
number of you kind of in the trenches together, trying
to pull together for the growth of the game.

“So yeah, I really enjoyed my time there. I'm excited to see the growth of
the league. I think that there's a bunch of things they can be doing better,
which is I think the case of most sports leagues, especially minor leagues,
but there's some bright sparks they have, and there's some things that are
pulling in their favor in terms of top-level British talent coming back to
the UK due to COVID in the last year, I think a trend that will continue
with UK coming out of EU...and you'll see some higher level talent
remaining in the country and being part of the league, which is great that
you then have those hometown names to tie yourself to; which I think is
essential for more minor league sports, to have those stories and those
touch points that give you things to build around and give you people that
can be there for a long period of time, too.

“And again, like you see in the G League and other minor leagues,
the turnover of players is high. And as a fan that, you know, your
favorite player moving around each year, it makes it hard to fall in
love with the team, right? So that was one thing we did well at
Leicester [is] we had a strong British core for a long period of time.
“I’m excited for the future of the league,but [there are] a ton of
challenges in terms of trying to break out into a more mainstream
market, attract larger sponsors, attract larger TV deals and such,
but [it’s] definitely trending in the right direction as a whole.”

About marketing the Leicester Riders
“There were [a lot of challenges]. It was from people knowing that
there was a basketball team in the city. There was [also] the
challenge of people knowing that basketball had a league in the
county to then, in a lot of years, we started to get some level of
awareness that we were there and if you ask [people] who the
Leicester Riders were, they'd be able to tell you that they were the
basketball team. But even then they probably couldn't tell you where
they played or where they were in the league. They'd probably be
able to tell you that they were good.

“So yeah, it was tough. It was complete culture building, cultural awareness
stuff — that was the biggest challenge. And again, you're up against
Leicester (football team) and in my time [they] went from being a non
Premier League team to winning the whole thing and being in Champions
League who weren’t even just playing at the weekends, they were playing in
mid week games as well to dominate the coverage even more.
“So yeah, it was tough...Whilst it was tough, our arenas weren’t huge, (they
had) 2,500-3,000 seats for basketball. It's not this 20,000 seat arena with
massive overheads that you're dealing with. There are still business
challenges and costs involved, but it gives you a level of comfort [that]
provided you do a good job, you're able to fill it.

“We were able to get solid fan growth over my time there. And the
years I was there, we went from 300-400 people type of
attendances when I started to over 2000+ regularly. So, the
growth was great and it just needs to keep going. But yeah, it was
[every challenge]. From trying to drive that awareness to then
trying to drive [media] coverage. You know, we’d win something
[and] national TV would pick it up, but even locally we'd struggle
because Leicester (City) were playing that weekend. Local sport
coverage in England is very different [from] local sport coverage
in the cities in the US. It's just a much smaller country, much
smaller teams.

“So we were producing a lot of our [own content] that for the Bulls, you
know, NBC Sports Chicago [produces themselves], we were producing in-
house ourselves and providing to media companies to drive that coverage.
And again, the back end of time there, if we were able to provide the
newspaper a double page spread, we were in the newspaper every day. If
we're able to provide TV footage of us winning and good crowds and
showing that there's interest, they were willing to cover us. But it was
completely driven by us as the team versus external factors. So, yeah, it
was a grind, but for me it provided that perfect education, right? Like I
needed to make media relations in different ways that I probably don't
even think about doing here. So it was perfect from a career growth
[standpoint] for me. I hope that it just continues to trend the right way.

“I think COVID and pandemic lockdowns and no fans
[affects] the basketball league more considerably than say
soccer or rugby. Because the TV money is not the same,
sponsorship money is not the same; the [game] night
revenue from tickets, merchandise, food and beverage sales
is what drives the clubs, which is why you see two teams
pull out [of the league] this summer. I hope it stops there. I
hope they add some more teams to replace them down the
line. But yeah the challenges were daily and multifaceted.”

Content strategy and execution for the Riders
“So the conversations were generally with me and an agency
that we use, a smaller agency that helped with some things, but
not everything....[The conversations] were just like a) what can
we do with the time we have, because even with my role, it was
never just on digital. Even until I left, I was still dealing with a
lot of logistical things of running a large program from a
basketball sense. So it was doing the best we could and trying
not to judge ourselves too harshly when we fell short on things.

“It was also with a focus of immediate impact. We had to
sometimes sacrifice time on longer term brand building plays
because we needed to make sure that we were getting bums
on seats for that Friday's game. That had to be the priority
because as a business if you don't drive that week [and] that
week doesn't look as busy do people come back the following
week? Is the atmosphere as good? If someone's coming for
the first time that week, and it's not full, they may not come
back. So like, it was a weekly pressure to drive [attendance]....

“And then to the point I made around media —because the
fandom was far more casual, you needed to still be doing all the
baseline [coverage]. You needed to be doing the preview
because people might not know who you're playing that week.
And then if they know the team you're playing, they probably
don't know more than one player on that team, outside of
course the diehards [who] are there week in, week out. So there
was this constant battle of, like, we want to do this really cool
elaborate stuff that takes a bunch of time, but you still have to
make sure that you're doing the baseline.

“You have to have the story going to the newspaper every day.
You have to make sure that even baseline stuff like websites were
updated, as a league there weren’t central feeds doing any of that,
so all of that was manual. So yeah, it was a battle. It was making
sure that we were driving fandom, driving bums on seats for the
games and then it was do as much as possible to try and move the
dial of the perception of basketball in the UK. The league still
carried a ton of misconception of where it was based on what
happened 15 years ago. Just misconceptions on how professional
the players were and what the teams look like, what the games
look like.

“Very very rarely did we have someone come to a game and be disappointed
with the product; it generally exceeded people's expectations. They would
leave with remarks of like ‘Wow, I can't believe I've not done this before.’ Or
That's the best kept secret in Leicester. How do people not know about this?’
“So the product on the floor was good. It's exciting. We had a great
atmosphere in our arenas; those smaller European arenas produced a loud
buzz that is different (to what) a big arena can create. It was great. From a
content sense, it was exactly how you said; just a battle of have we done
enough to make sure that our aena is full this week? And next week and the
week after, and are we doing things to then convert those people to season
ticket holders? Are we doing enough to maintain our season ticket holders?

“For us, we were a more casual activity. So we were
then also super aware of our competitors, not just
being the two other massive sport teams in the city that
generally would play around the same time as us,
which is always a battle as well. But also where a family
would be making the decision of whether to come to
the basketball that week or go to the cinema or go
bowling, you know, even just go to dinner somewhere.

“So yeah, it was a ton of direct, short-term marketing plays. And
then wherever we could try and do something that raised the
bar and changed the perception. To give a couple [examples], in
my penultimate season there, we did a theme night around St.
Patrick's Day, which we actually had to go to the league and get
approval on breaking rules on jersey clothes and stuff, because
that hadn't been done before and just themed our entire game
like that. We were able to drive national single game sponsors,
which is something we didn't generally pull. If we were selling
game sponsorships, it was more on a local basis.

“So we were able to attract national brands, attract a ton of press around
it and excite our players as well. We were in a league where us doing a
good job digitally for [players] led to us being able to recruit higher level
players, which obviously then drove a high level product in the form of
fans, etc.
“So you have to keep that in mind, as well — like, do the players like what
we're doing? Because our contracts aren't big enough to just go and get
exactly who we want. We need them to be advocating to their college
teammate that's coming now. Or, you know, a guy they played pro with
in Slovenia the year before that we might want to sign the next season.

“But the branded game stuff was a step change and an eye opener to
me. I think it was about two years before I left....if you can do
something exciting and fun, then the fans are there. They're absolutely
there. It's just getting over the day-to-day things that have to be done
to free up enough time and climb that mountain to do that little bit
more to then actually see the impact. I think that's where teams fall
down in the BBL. They aren't able to quite get over that hump. We
were fortunate enough in Leicester to have things come together to
allow us to do so. It was just this perfect storm to be able to do some
cool stuff. Then for me personally, that just drove me to want to do
bigger and bigger projects and more and more crazy things.”

On the opportunity that winning gives teams
“Winning. Winning moves the dial. It sounds obvious and it is. But I
saw it in the UK and talking to them and, and they could do exactly the
same things as us [and] make it look even cooler, but when we go and
blow them out by 30, the fandom doesn't grow, you know, that isn't
something that's fun to come and watch as in something that you can
then do content around digitally [and] isn't something that sponsors
want to be associated with. The success we had at Leicester was a
product of our managing director [and] our head coach putting together
incredible rosters and, and competing incredibly well and winning.

That just opened the doors to everything else from a growth standpoint,
they allowed fans to latch onto something that was fun and exciting.
And just like that ego boost of being a fan of a good team...I come here
and see the Warriors digital footprint, the Lakers digital footprint with
LeBron and the Cavs while he was there; and like the things that having
a great team that wins championships allows you to do cannot be
understated. And then it snowballs. That’s why I have such respect for
what Toronto were able to build, and hopefully what we're able to build
here in the future — to be able to break through and knock off someone
that's successful means that you've been able to attract better players,
be able to play a better way, develop players better.

“That's incredibly tough. You know, winning drives more winning and the
success of the Riders — like once we climbed that mountain, it allowed us to
kind of free flow and it felt like we had to check ourselves to try and innovate
and keep pushing, and not get comfortable and not get knocked off of being
one of the top teams there.
“But the performance in sport, the performance drives the business. I think
there's a ton of other things that go into it around brand and things you can
do that will of course impact it. [But] nothing in my opinion is more powerful
than winning because it's what people want to see and want to support. It's
what little kids want to go and emulate, which then drives parents to want to
come to the games. [Winning] just impacts so many things. It presents such a
good environment to work in...The winning is what moves the dial. And the
struggle is the building of the mountain to the point of knocking off the
teams that are better in the first place.

“Riders-wise, we were able to capitalize on that success and just continue to
build year on year on that. Obviously it's never easy. Other teams are trying to do
exactly the same thing, but it does make it a lot easier; it just opens a ton of
doors. I remember back to sponsor meetings, walking in and we arrived with the
league trophy and put that on the desk because the discussions...and little fun
plays that, we do tongue in cheek ...it's something you want to be a part of. It's
something that's cool. That is definitely what moved the dial for the Riders side.
“It allowed me to then do more and more content that looked cool because we
had a win — and I guess we didn't really talk on schedule — but the BBL plays
generally every weekend. So you might play Friday-Sunday, and then have five or
six days until your next game. If you've lost both of those games and there's not
really storylines that you want to dive into too heavily. You kind of stuck preview
in a game and the hope that it goes better the following week and trying to find
storylines around the team; that's tough.

“Instead, for us, we were able to then just make a bunch of cool content
off the back of those wins, test different things [with] a fan base that was
very positive and happy about how the weekend had gone. Then see what
stuck, see what did well. Over my time there, we did a better job of the
analytical tracking side of things and understanding how important it was
to understand what content did for our brand, what players were
referencing when they came in as to why they were willing to sign with us,
what agents were looking at on our channels to what sponsors were
impressed with from an impression stance, from an engagement stance,
what they looked for, what they wanted more of, what they wanted, less
of, what things — when we did certain things on certain weeks how that
affected ticketing and our fan base in the floor.

“And again, it's in this perfect setting that it's a small enough business
to see at a granular level how all of those things work. So if you add
three live previews and a couple of things before and suddenly your
fan base goes up 40% for that weekend in advanced sales and like,
okay, well, let's do more of that. Or let's take out one thing and see
what it was.
“For us it was the winning, man...Winning is what moves the dial
there and I think when you look at the Warriors footprint, for example
here, they [had] however many consecutive Finals [trips] in recent
times. It's true [that] in the social media age, it drives so much.

Going from the Riders to the Bulls
“I guess the biggest thing to note is that I arrived here
about a month before March 13, which is when
everything went into lockdown. So [when] I arrived, I
had like a week or so of games, then we were hosting All-
Star [festivities] in 2020, so I got to experience that. It
was just a whirlwind of a couple of weeks I just started to
find my groove…

“I remember sitting with management here in our check-in. I was like ‘Yeah, I
felt like I kind of loosely understand what the season's going to look like for
the rest of the year now’ and then we got pulled into a room and got told to go
and work from home and the season's done. So, yeah, transitioning was weird
and I think like...I've been here a year and a half and I still very much feel like
the new guy; people reference staff and I haven't had a conversation with them
yet.
“We're starting to drift back into the office here now, which is great. But even
then there's places I've not seen and things I don't know how to do. So it's
been a very strange career move and lifestyle move, obviously moving overseas
right before a pandemic; being away from family and friends has been strange.

“But for the most part this year, we were able to have a season. I was
fortunate to be one of the people traveling on the team, so my life didn't
look too different even in the pandemic, so (I’m) very grateful and
fortunate for that.
“But yeah, arriving, it’s crazy — you go from a business that is single digit
staffing on the pro men's team side of things to a huge office in the United
Center, this incredible infrastructure of staff, and the ability to focus solely
on your job. Although still your job then becomes a big job with the size of
the brand here; [you also get to] work with like-minded people, bounce
ideas off and have incredible creative departments in design and video.

“It's awesome. The move has been great, I love it. People have
been awesome, very welcoming. From a brand sense, I think as
well, like content is content and a lot of the things that I felt were
important in the BBL, I still feel they're important here. I think
it's important to service your fans and build community and I
think we’re trying different things to cultivate that more. I think
we have arrived to a team that struggles at times, missed the
playoffs this year, missed out last year from going to the Bubble.
So we’re trying to break through [on the basketball side] and
come back to kind of relevancy on the court and we’re trying to do
the same from a digital sense.

“And we're trying to do the same from a digital sense. The difference, I
guess, is the brand power of the Bulls is incredible. Something that from a
distance I obviously observed, and you could see how much the 90s has
impacted that and grown. The Bulls grew with basketball globally. As this
boom happened across the world with basketball, it was closely tied to the
guy playing for the Bulls, right?
“So the brand power is immense. And I think for me after a season now,
kind of navigating that [during] strange times of COVID, it's exciting
because now we can kind of look ahead. We are excited to take some big
swings at things and see how they play. And try some new things...things we
can test and, and community builders we can look at.

“But in terms of the job, there's a lot more to consider. I also
think that as you add more people, you add more time spent on
things that are absolutely necessary, but probably aren't
impacting production, if that makes sense. Like you have
approval processes, you have the necessity to have larger
meetings because there's multiple people involved. We have,
like I said, incredible creative teams producing the work rather
me being a one man band at Leicester. So it's about hearing
their vision, sharing our vision, working together on projects…

“Like I said, I've gone from a place of single digit staffing to a
place [with] this huge office of staff. And yet we feel completely
understaffed and overwhelmed with all we're trying to do, given
the size of the brand and how important content has become.
Again, for me, the navigation has been great and it's been eye
opening in a lot of ways. After a season and seeing a calendar
year in sport, I think it’s so crucial to be able to then impact
things [and I am] now starting to see where I can potentially add
some value or at least add some ideas or some different way of
thinking coming from where I've come from, which is super fun.

“Then just continuing to learn from everyone has been
awesome, too. You have a bunch of staff here and in
all departments that have been with the organization
or within the league or within sports leagues, for a
long time. It's been a nice comfort blanket to have all
these incredible people around, to throw ideas at, and
then see them take the idea and make it 10 times
better than you ever thought it could be...

“Content is still content, right? It's still you're trying to cultivate fandom.
The difference here is we're trying to monetize in different ways. We're
able to monetize sponsors on our digital platforms and bring revenue and
add value to the business in that sense. We try and do it in a way that's
true to our fans and is gonna resonate with them. Again, we have these
great teams to be able to put those things together and do it in a way that
we think is true to the Bulls and true to our brand. Then as we come back,
we're going to see — I've been here a whole season without really having
it. We didn't have fans in the buildings [but for] three games. So, coming
back, I'm going to see more of what our brand looks like in the city of
Chicago, what that looks like at the United Center, our impact on driving
tickets, driving revenue in that sense is going to be added in, which is fun.

“Then, yeah, we continue to try and try and break
the boundaries, do things that are true to us and do
cool things that our fans can enjoy, that they want to
share with their friends, and maybe they want to be
a part of. I think for as long as we keep that out in
discussions, it makes it a super fun place to work.
We don't really have to do too many things that we
don't like, which is awesome.”

On monetizing content and how packages and concepts come together
“I think Luka [Dukich] here and then Dan [Moriarty], for us, they do a
great job of working with our partnerships team and then our content
studio to build out processes and systems to make that super smooth
and not painful at all and exciting for us as creatives. So yeah, the
process is a mix...we have some things — established content
franchises that we're able to pass to our partnerships team to sell in a
basic way...things that we know that we've done or we want to do [and
that] we think are going to work or we have evidence have worked that
we can attach partners to in different ways is one way.

“The other is being creative and excited [about] ways to make something new with
a partner involved. Generally we try and see partnership involvement as a door to
being able to do something that potentially we couldn't if there wasn't the money
involved. With that mindset, it allows you to kind of come with some more big
ideas, [and] be able to utilize different resources and things. It's a fun process…
“The Bulls in general [have] built a great process, which is maybe not the most
sexy thing to talk about, but it's so key. Partnership content is going to touch
multiple parts of our business. Previous to this year, and then going into this
season, partners are generally involved in different things. It isn't just that they
sponsor a quarter score, though sometimes that is, or sponsor a video series or
something, they might have in-arena activations — there's different things being
balanced.

“It's definitely a team effort — our partnership team is great, our digital team is
great at handling htat. Then we have an approach of having a content studio to
kind of take these things, too. So teams from creative services, both TV or video
department, our game entertainment team and Team Benny and different
aspects there, as well as then our digital department — we have processes in
place as a content studio amongst those four kind of separate departments to
come together and brainstorm on these things.
“Again, we're fortunate to be in a position that we seldom have to do things that
we don't like, and we don't think make sense. We're given the freedom and
power to voice what we think is best for our platforms and given the autonomy
to be able to activate those things for the most part, which is awesome...

“As I've got to know people across sports franchises in the US that very
much isn't the case in all places. So I definitely don't underappreciate
[those things]; it's massively important to what we do and. Much before
my time, the Bulls were awesome in terms of how they integrated brands
into their content and how they monetized; doing it in innovative ways
and different ways and what makes sense for both us and the partner.
And, again, what we think is actually going to resonate with our fans
because there's nothing worse than partnership content that you can tell
is absolutely checkbox partnership content and [has] no value to the fan
base at all. So for as long as we can avoid that, we do. We're in a fortunate
position that our partnership team have a good understanding of that.

“That was built much before my time, so much more credit to what
I've walked into, but it allows us to do cool things. Even just this
week, we unveiled a court with Zenni (Optical) and the park district
on the south side of Chicago [and] did a bunch of content around
it...We have a drop for some custom art basketball's coming up off
the back of it and things that we think are on trend and on moment
for where we're at now and something our fan base is interested in.
Then, as I said, [it] resonates with the partner that's been able to
convert a court in the south side of Chicago [and] engage with the
community there [and] share their message and vision for all the
things there. And that's just one example.

“There are tons on our YouTube channels. And actually I think
we do such a good job on the partnership content, and I think
the exciting thing going forward for us is reclaiming, like doing
things that maybe haven't got a partnership involved with yet
that are a bigger swing and a bigger risk. That's what's exciting
for me going into next year. Again, given the power and the
autonomy to come with some big things that potentially could
fail, could be a little more risky and haven't got a partner
attached to it yet.. So, the gray space that we're able to run into
now is super exciting.

Learning the Bulls culture and the brand/personality of their
content
“I think coming in it was easier than arriving to some [other] teams
because the voice is similar to what we were trying to be where I'd
been previously. Our brand is iconic, right? It's historical. It's
legendary. So we try and [respect that]; we're not able to dive into
kind of meme culture things as much...We're able to staff members
to drive the brand and the voice in the digital space to where we
think makes sense in the moment for our fan base.

“You saw that with our All-Star campaign this year...I think it's
differentiated. A lot of things I think for us it's about, is it rolling? One thing
that is interesting is that coming in as a British person to an American brand
voice is challenging at times, just from even a spelling alteration sense of
how American English is different to British English and how, as a Brit, I
may say something and [it] would very much not stick well with an
American brand voice.
“So it's been fun. Nikko Tan, who I work with super closely on the basketball
side of content is an incredible publisher for us and takes care of a lot of that
solely. So for us we're able to lean on him and kind of have him as our
guiding posts, which is great to have a singular kind of person being the day-
to-day voice, which then when we jump back in as a more multifaceted team
kind of keeps us all aligned, which is super cool.

“So it was a pretty smooth adjustment. I think it would
have been a much heavier adjustment going into a
brand that does lean more into meme culture or leans
more into going back and forth with other teams and
things; we don't do a ton of that, we do stay a little more
on the straight and narrow. I think it's been simple, but
at the same time, I'm excited to see again where it can
grow to, and to throw the rule book out every now and
again and see what sticks in our fan base.”

About the phenomenon of The Last Dance for the Bulls social team
“It was also, again for me, very fortunate for me, right? Like I arrived to Chicago,
I'm here a week and then it's NBA All-Star weekend. [Then the] season gets shut
down and we're all in a pandemic. And then ESPN moves up a documentary,
which the whole world is waiting for. And we're at the forefront of it while there
is nothing else happening in the world of sports at that time.
“So, yeah it was awesome, for me, personally, to arrive and be like literally the
focal point of the sporting world, as egotistical as that is to say out loud. For
those weeks, like we were...when the episodes were airing and it was the thing
that was going on, it had everybody's eyeballs, the viewing figures were
incredible. The documentary itself was awesome. Obviously it won a bunch of
awards and absolutely rightfully so. In terms of [our] process, we knew it was
coming; again, people from before when I arrived in February, March were
already kind of doing some prep work on it.

“We'd launched at Bulls Archive as an account in a nod to the
fact that we have all this incredible archive footage and photos
ourselves...just because we still have the same photographer in
Bill Smith that was here in the 90s. So we still have access to all
of his incredible work [from] that time and things that, you
know, has at that time in print age, you know, you take a
couple of hundred photos or whatever the volume is over a
week — very few of them were seeing the light of day in an age
before digital, right? So there's binders and binders here in an
archive room of things that needs to be scanned in and
digitized.

“So, you know, from a prep sense, [we] launched Bulls
Archive and did some prep work with ESPN in terms of
collaborating with them on some level; it wasn't super
detailed. I think probably going back we could’ve done
more there, but they gave a bit of a heads up of at least
knowing some of the trends and things that were
coming [and] allowed us to prep some content and
events to be able to react in a really cool way in real
time.

“Again, a ridiculously talented group of individuals creatively that
are able to do, from Jimmy Mitchell, an incredible graphic driver
for us, through to our video team of Bulls TV and the staff there
through to our publishing staff, we are able to split up. There
wasn't a lot else going on, so we were able to just dial our
channels to The Last Dance and be this throwback and just lean
wholeheartedly into nostalgia for the five weeks, which is
awesome. For me, that was my basketball education, watching
VHS reruns of Jordan’s Finals that my dad had taped when he
was interested in basketball. So then reliving all of that was
incredible.

“We were able to obviously grow our main channels and do some pretty
impressive numbers on content. But also really grow our Bulls archive
account are almost a hundred thousand now, which has then led to us being
able to monetize that. We have a sponsored series running exclusively on our
(Bulls) Archive accounts for the first time this summer. Again, that was off
the back of the power of nostalgia...
“So, yeah, incredible workings for us; proud of our efforts. [It was] a tough
way of working at times; we were at home on Zoom calls and trying to pull
archive stuff without being able to go into the office and all these things. So, a
super weird few weeks. But yeah, incredible, definitely a career highlight for
me and I'm sure other people involved. Again, just fortunate as the Bulls for
that Michael Jordan guy and that team and those years. What they were able
to achieve is still driving interest to our team now, so it's incredible that that
is the case so long after.

“But yeah, super fun to be involved. We were able to
lean into that nostalgia [and] recapture fans of that
age that lived it and then expose our current fans to
an age that they may not have lived. So yeah, an
awesome all-around experience. And I think we
were able to do a good job especially growing out
Bulls Archive to the point of being able to monetize
now from a branding sense, which is great.”

Joe’s favorite piece of content from his time with the Riders
“So I alluded to it in the interview, but the St Patrick's Day game and [all
our] content around that week in build up and posts kind of covering our
arena to our brand colors there with black and red, which is also funny that
I went from black and red at the Riders (to black and red with the Bulls) But
yeah, flipping everything to green [and] leaning into the St. Patrick’s Day
vibe.
“Then the secondary to that is the following year we did Diwali-based game,
which is a nod to the Indian population in Leicester, celebrating. Both of
those theme games, definitely fond memories from a content sense there.”

The non Chicago team and the non NBA team whose content Joe admires and
why.
“I’ve always been a fan of Duke's content and Ohio State’s content, which are
both non-Chicago and non-NBA. I enjoy college content in general, actually,
especially college football. Something for me about the visuals of helmets and
like what you can do with that just creates such powerful aesthetics. It's a
different level of access, different kind of athlete you're working with, and
different stories to tell...
“Specifically, as well, I enjoy Duke Women’s Basketball content and how much
that has changed over the last couple of years. They do an incredible job and
have jumped from a women’s basketball sphere in a really strong way.”

The last TV show Joe binged
Joe calls out All or Nothing shows, the Hard
Knocks-like sports show on Amazon Prime as his go-
to recently

Joe’s favorite basketball player growing up
Kobe Bryant → “I grew up in a time where [BBL] was
on TV a little bit, not a lot...So my basketball fandom
started with NBA and college basketball. So, yeah,
from a NBA sense, it’s Kobe. I just grew up watching
MJ stuff and reruns of the Bulls a little bit, but as I
said earlier it was Kobe in the league at that point.”

The key to great content is ______
“To me, it’s passion. I think that if you are passionate about something you're
then inquisitive and curious, you want to test things, you want to know a lot
about it and you want to pull yourself into it. And I think that resonates with a
fan base. For us, the pieces of content that we strive over the most and really put
our hearts into is generally the stuff that performs the best.
“That doesn't mean it’s always [what takes the] longest time and produced
things. But if you do things with passion, [it] generally resonates with a fan base,
and it also leads to a way of working that makes you want to be better each day,
makes you want to learn, makes you want to be aware of everything that's going
on. So for me, yeah, the key to great content is passion for your job.”

About Benny the Bull and his social media success on TikTok + Snapchat
“TikTok launching, our staff here within our digital department and team
Benny obviously predates me, but [they] made the call to use Benny and
grow out in that space. It was obviously a supernatural fit for TikTok. Benny
can be, you know, mischievous and funny and the kid inside us and all of
these things. I think Benny's brand has [grown] leaps and bounds in even
just the year I've been here, but predates that as well...
“So yeah, Team Benny and the team do a great job on TikTok, but on other
channels as well. Because his presence is great, definitely is a fun follow.
And for us, it's super important, it engages a different audience. Benny
doesn't win or lose games. Benny doesn't get traded. Benny doesn't, you
know, sign somewhere else in free agency.

“Although he's growing up to a level, his brand that maybe could
be a creative acquisition soon. So I think it's something that is
very different to the basketball team. Um, but it's something that
is just going to be a constant in the Bulls brand. What's exciting is
there's so much room for growth there still. It gives us a
personality that we can build around, which, you see the success
all in kind of influencer culture, creators culture now onTikTok
YouTube and other places. They do an awesome job. I enjoy being
involved in those projects when they come up. But yeah,
absolutely props to team Benny staff on what they do there.”

The Bulls players that do the best job personally on their
social media
“I think I'm not going to say the best, but I want to
highlight one thing. I enjoyed two things, actually. One is
Thad (Thaddeus) Young this year, someone that's a veteran
in the league, has not been particularly active on social, has
relearned the importance of it and is working with agencies
and things to grow his brand and be more active.

“It's cool to see, you know, players of all stages of their career using that platform
and him kind of working in a different way to potentially some of the different
players on the team. So that's been interesting to interact with him on, chat about
what his values are and why he's doing it.
“The other one is what Cobi White did with his platform this year. Someone (who)
isn't potentially the most outspoken and finding a way on his platform to be true to
himself, but also raise awareness of causes and issues that were true to him and
important to him. For those who don't know, take a look back on his Instagram if
you scroll through — he wore hoodies designed with different messaging to each
game. Obviously it's something as walk-ins that we capture anyway, but [we] worked
with him to make those images available and make sure that he had what he needed
to be able to post as well, and essentially leverage his voice to raise awareness for,
from social justice issues to mental health, to things that were important to him.

“I think that it's a great case study because I think there's
pressure on athletes and some deserved some, some not deserved
to use their voice for change. And I think athletes feel that. And I
think that Cobi was able to take a step back and do something
that was true to him and his brand and his values in a way that
was completely created by him and innate to him, and it was
different to what may have made sense for other athletes. And I
think in that way, a massive respect to him to do it. As a young
guy to a) to speak out on things in general is always good and
then to do it in a way that made sense with him in terms of how
he used this platform was super cool.

“I think it's something that athletes can look at and
learn from to take a hard look at what makes sense
for them versus always just kind of jumping on
trends or doing what others that other athletes are
doing. Your platform as an athlete is your voice, the
same way as your brand, as a brand account. So him
doing something that made sense for him is
something I admire…”

The best meal to get in Chicago and where to
get it and also the best meal in Leicester
Joe notes he’s still exploring Chicago, so is
seeking recommendations and recommends
Capriotti's. He’s also tried deep dish pizza and
says he likes it (and any form of pizza, he says!)
In Leicester --. “(The city has) a heavy
population of Indian people...It’s one of the
densest populations of Indian heritage people
outside of India, so the Indian food you can
have in Leicester is some of the best in the
world…Check out any of the Indian food
locations. Personal favorite is a place called
Woolpack…”

One fun fact or lesson learned not touched on in the interview yet
“Follow what you’re passionate about. I think landing here...and talking
about content is definitely not something that I had in mind. I was never
someone that was particularly at mapping out their career in any way. But I
think what I have found is if you’re doing things that you’re passionate
about, it’s going to end up in a good place. You’re going to enjoy life, you’re
going to enjoy your work, you’re going to find people that are like-minded,
and good things are going to come off the back of it because you’re going to
be able to put in the time and it’s not really work. For me, that’s basketball. I
played, I coached and now I’m working alongside some of the best in the
world...It has pretty much come off the back of enjoying what I do…”

Joe’s Social Media All-Star to Follow
Joe recommends @TheNikkoTan (Nikko Tan) → “Dude is a
superstar. And for me coming, you never know when you come
into a new business what it’s going to be like to work with staff,
manage staff, etc. He is a dream to work with, exciting young
talent, just this year picked up photography skills he didn’t
have before. (He) definitely is going to be doing bright things
in the social media and sports landscape for a long time…”

Where to find Joe and the Bulls on digital/social
media
Find the Bulls at @ChicagoBulls and also check out
newer platforms @BullsCommunity @BullsArchive
@BennyTheBull @WindyCityBulls
@chicagoluvabulls
Joe is @JoePinchin on IG and Twitter

Thanks again to Joe for being so generous
with his time to share his knowledge,
experience, and expertise with me!
For more content and episodes, subscribe to
the podcast, follow me on LinkedIn and on
Twitter @njh287, and visit
www.dsmsports.net.

Episode 201 Snippets: Joe Pinchin of the Chicago Bulls

Recommended

Recommended

More Related Content

What's hot

What's hot (20)

Similar to Episode 201 Snippets: Joe Pinchin of the Chicago Bulls

Similar to Episode 201 Snippets: Joe Pinchin of the Chicago Bulls (20)

More from Neil Horowitz

More from Neil Horowitz (20)

Recently uploaded

Recently uploaded (20)

Episode 201 Snippets: Joe Pinchin of the Chicago Bulls