Episode 257 Snippets: Corey Leff of JohnWallStreet

@njh287; www.dsmsports.net
On episode 257 of the Digital and Social Media Sports Podcast, Neil
chatted with Corey Leff, Founder and Editor, JohnWallStreet
What follows is a collection of snippets from the podcast. To hear the
full interview and more, check out the podcast on all podcast
platforms and at www.dsmsports.net.
Best Of The Digital and
Social Media Sports Podcast
Episode 257: Corey Leff

Corey’s career, starting JohnWallStreet, and advice to aspiring writers/
pros
“Well, start putting out content. That's the advice if you want to break
into sports. And it's not going to be good content at the beginning, I
promise. But it will get better over time. I started — initially I was
working in the equity research space when I started JohnWallStreet. I'd
seen the money starting to get big in sports, but the coverage at the time
was pretty limited. I mean, you had SBJ, but other than SBJ, it was really
just Bloomberg that was covering sports from a deal perspective, and
everything was really news focused, very little from an analytical or
context perspective, which is frankly where I think most of the value is.

“So I started to just kind of cover deals, you know, trends, things that
I thought were noteworthy and important in the sports and media
landscape. And slowly but surely I started to build an influential
audience, which gave me access to to those people. Because
newsletter is kind of the 1 to 1 direct to consumer communication I
knew exactly who was signing up, who was reading, and was able to
go out and connect with those people and build relationships, and
obviously that's allowed me to put better content out over time, which
has spun into more readership. And here we are six years later...”

“At first, I didn't know, to be honest, what the end goal [of JohnWallStreet] was. I thought
maybe I would replace, like, Darren Rovell at ESPN or do something like that. I remember,
though, very early on, I had a conversation with [ESPN exec] Rob King, and Rob was an
early reader and believer in JohnWallStreet. And he's like, I love you and I love what you're
doing. We will never cover sports business again at ESPN because the fan just doesn't care.
And that was something that I took to heart. I didn't take that in a negative way, but I
realized who the audience was. You're not writing for the fan, and if you think that sports
business is a volume game or a mass media play, you're wrong. So if you look at it through
that, if you understand that, then you start to focus, well, who's the core audience? The
core audience are the people who matter in sports. That's your team owners, your league
commissioners, the people that run the media networks, your PEs, your VCs. Okay, well,
those people aren't on social media. Those people don't go to websites. So you deliver
media using a mechanism that they consume, which is email.
“So it's actually a very easy and logical solution if you think about it that way.”

On appreciating the composition of the newsletter audience as much as the sheer size
“I used to get very bummed about this, to be honest with you. I remember, like, I got
started right about the same time as Front Office Sports, I think they may have even
started a little bit before me. But they were growing so much faster and I'm like, I
don't understand this. My content is so much better. Like, why? It took me a long
time to realize that we weren't writing for the same audience. Joe Favorito helped put
it in really in context for me to — I remember, JohnWallStreet had to have been
maybe 2 or 3 months old [and] Chelsea [FC] was in town. I don't even remember why
at this point, but I remember we went to an event and Joe introduced me to, I don't
know who it was, the president of Chelsea or whoever at the time. And he said, you
know, this guy writes the most influential newsletter in sports business. And I
laughed and I said, Joe, that's very nice of you to say, I have 300 subscribers. And he
goes, yeah, but it's the 300 people in sports that matter.

“That reshaped kind of my whole thinking about it. I don't need a
million subscribers, as you say. I needed 100 subscribers. If I could
get the hundred pro sports team owners, the big four sports team
owners to read me every single day, I literally don't need another
reader. I don't care if anybody else reads.”

On driving revenue from JohnWallStreet
“Well, I think the issue you run into is that to write the kinds of content, a really smart
newsletter that reaches the high end audience, as soon as you start dumbing it down to reach
the masses, you lose those people, right? So you don't want to do that. But the problem is, like
you just said, everybody's chasing clicks because they're often ad-based, so they need the
numbers. When I started JohnWallStreet, I had a full time job, so I didn't need to generate
revenue from the newsletter. So, honestly, I didn't know how I was going to monetize the
newsletter if it ever was going to get to that point. The only goal at the beginning was let's
build audience, let's build influential audience. And if we can get influential people to read
this thing, we'll figure out how to monetize it later.
“And, you know, now is later. But it took a while to kind of figure out where the business was
going. But it all stems from having the influence, having the people who matter and having
their ear and access to them and then having their respect for them to pick up the phone or to
read your email. That's all part of it too.”

On Corey’s personal interest in sports business and his view of the increased
sophistication and scale of money in sportsbiz
“Well, first of all, on my own personal interest, I grew up as a fanatical sports fan. I
thought I wanted to be Mike Francesa. I wanted to talk about the game. As I got
older, I realized the game is just not that interesting most of the time. And actually
that's a lot of what I've tried to hone in on is, okay, well, the game isn't that
interesting. I've been to hundreds, if not thousands of sporting events in my life.
The amount that I could remember the outcome of never mind, like a single play or
anything is on like one hand, maybe two hands. The punt return of the Aaron
Rodgers [opening Jets] game this year is like, literally, one of the only times I can
ever remember the outcome of a Jets game I attended, because it was something
that was so out of the ordinary, right? Like, you know, a wal- off touchdown in the
game that Rodgers gets hurt. Most of the time the game isn't that interesting.

“So it becomes like, okay, well how do you get fans to come back? So a lot of
what I think about on a day to day basis is fan experience. Why do people come
to the stadium and how can you get them to leave thinking that this was an
amazing experience, regardless of whether or not the home team won or the
game was any good? Because again, most of the time it's not.
“The business side of sports has gotten much more interesting. So as I realized
that the game isn't as interesting as I thought it once was, the business side has
also become far more interesting than it ever was. You know, as late as the mid
2000s, pro sports teams were going for a few hundred million dollars, like you
could buy NBA teams in the late 2000s — like, I think the [Atlanta] Hawls sold
for 3 or $400 million in like the late 2000s, right? Maybe my numbers are off,
but, generally speaking, that's pretty accurate.

“So it's only the last like 15 years that we're talking about teams being
worth billions of dollars, where it becomes really a viable investment
class. Forever sports was just like a hobby that rich people did. And these
weren't investments, these were largely teams that were passed down.
But as the valuations, which corresponded with media rights [deals], have
skyrocketed over the last 15 years, you've had a different class of owner
come in because who can afford to buy $2 billion teams, right? And with
these enormous purchase prices, you get this different class of owner
that's taking a different approach and making sports business a lot
smarter and are thinking about things like the fan experience and how to
improve and integrate sports tech. So that's opened up this whole world
of venture and investment and all the things that we write about now.”

On how getting into sports business has changed Corey’s personal
experience of attending games as a fan
“I've been for a long time wanting to do a podcast with my wife and
daughter about this, about the fan experience and looking at the game
through the three different perspectives. Like me as a fanatical sports fan
who's going, but also as a dad and husband. Then my wife, who's looking
at like totally different things, she's looking about kid-friendly bathrooms
and things like that. And then my daughter, who's like, you know,
concerned about mascots. I've always thought that this could be a fun
family-type of podcast. Maybe at some time I'll have enough time to do
that, but I am looking at all those things that you just kind of referenced.

“It is certainly a different experience. I mean, don't get me wrong, I
still love to go to sporting events, I go to sporting events all the time. I
try to get to one a week, if I can, at least. I still like to go as a fan, and
I'm certainly interested in what happens on the field or the ice or
whatever, but, I also pay attention to exactly what you just said. I
mean, you know, the parking and the bathroom situation and, I guess,
all the normal things, but also then I pay attention to the game
presentation now. You know, I came home from the Jets opener and I
texted Joe Fav about how I thought the the game presentation was
really well done. So yeah, I think it's all of those things.”

“I actually think the biggest change for me is that I'm looking for a
spectacle now. That's actually what I like the best. That's probably the
biggest change for me is that because I'm afforded the opportunity to
go so often the things that I really like are not necessarily the best
sporting event or the biggest game like game seven — great, like,
that's amazing, it's a great sporting event, but for me, like the
Kentucky Derby or a spectacle is more exciting. I like that more than
anything else.”

On the evolution of the fan offering to go to a game and how more
attractions and appealing elements have been added
“I do love the integration of music, of live music. I think, you know, it's not
necessarily new, but putting a concert around the big fight or a basketball
game, I love that. I think that's great. Obviously the food and beverage has
become such a critical part of it, right? People are expecting to go to a
game now and eat well. I'm actually excited [about] Prudential Center this
year. I'm going to the [New Jersey] Devils game tonight, so tonight is not
when you're going to be listening to this, but tonight when we record this
I'm going to go to the Devils game and they just got a new F&B [food and
beverage] vendor and I'll be eating my way around the stadium.

“I love when teams make their players available. I went to the
Savannah Bananas this summer and when you walk into the stadium
the players are there greeting fans and signing autographs; I think
that is attractive. You know, I went to a [NWHL] Riveters game last
year, and I know the Riveters no longer exist, but after the game the
players signed autographs for all the fans. It's about creating
memories. That's what people remember. They don't remember who
won the game. They remember meeting the players. I love the
running on the bases on Sundays. I love the last game of the season,
season ticket holders draw on the ice. Memories. That's what I like.”

On what drove the rapid increase in fan experience and industries +
businesses around it
“I think it's actually twofold. I think the conversation starts with
attention, right? Like the idea being we had to do more, provide a better
experience because there's more competition for the fan dollar. That's
where I think the conversation starts. But then the flip side of that is, as
we talked about the valuations and the costs of these teams have gotten
so expensive, to generate any semblance of return on them, we have to
monetize them, right? So we need to do a better job than we have in the
past. So I think it all goes together.

“But there's a broader trend of fans going less and spending more on
those experiences and looking for that premium experience. So that's not
where this conversation or even the trend we're talking about started
about, you know, why they initially started trying to improve the fan
experience, but it's all on the same kind of wavelength. Right now that's
what fans are looking for. They're looking for that one night [to be]
memorable, this is the night of the year type of experience, right? And
that's why they're spending a couple grand to go to Taylor Swift. It's all
about memories, Instagram, social, creating experiences that stand out
and are not just one of a million, which is what I guess it was back in the
day when you went and it was just hamburger, hot dog and Cracker
Jacks.”

On the ever-increasing media rights deals and whether they’ll ever
stop growing
“I think media rights probably have flattened or close to peaked. I
don't necessarily know that franchise values have though, because
these end up being vanity plays. They're not logical investments a lot
of time. You know, how many NFL teams come up [for sale] every five
years? So yeah, at some point you probably run out of billionaires that
can spend 5 billion on an NFL franchise, but we haven't gotten there
yet and I don't anticipate that we will anytime in the imminent future.
So sure, these valuations continue to go up…”

“You know, I mean, a lot of these teams don't make money. Not a lot,
but a decent portion of pro sports teams in the US don't make money.
Not NFL teams, NFL teams aside. So, even at $1 billion, I mean —
would you spend $1 billion on something that lost money every single
year? No, but you do because these valuations continue to go up
because there's only 30 of them and media rights have historically
always gone up, and somebody will be willing to pay more than you
paid.”

On what drives the topics in JWS and what’s of the moment right now
“I’m very intrigued by the potential investment of these sovereign funds in
American sport. And you know, tying that back to valuations, our valuations
are going to continue to increase if the sovereign funds are going to be
investing. So that's certainly a very interesting trend. The media rights stuff is
fascinating. I'm not certain that regional sports networks are going away
forever. I may get into a piece next week about how there could be a potential
resurgence, actually, for regional sports networks, if and when some of these
teams that go to broadcast realize that they could utilize some of those rights
fee revenues again, and that it’s harder to piece together [retransmission] fees
and some of the other revenue sources that they're expecting from broadcast.
So, I don't think the model is necessarily dead.

“So yeah, I'm focused on media and everything that's going on in that
space and obviously everything in the investment landscape. But just
generally speaking, I tend to look for things that are working in one
aspect of the industry. When I started JohnWallStreet, one of the
overarching beliefs I had was that everybody's kind of like head down,
you know, working on their team or their league. Very little idea
sharing within leagues, I mean almost no idea sharing amongst
leagues. So if I could identify things that would work for one property
and convey that to many, there would be a lot of value in that. So
that's kind of one of the lenses that I try to look for stories.

“And then also, you know, I try to run counter in the sense that I'm totally uninterested
in breaking news. If I break news, it's 100% by accident. There's no value in breaking
news, it's so commoditized. Nobody will pay you for it and the second you publish it, a
thousand other outlets have it, so there's no shelf life on it. I would rather take a big
news story, something that everybody in the industry is talking about, and then put
context around it and explain to you why it's important and why it matters. And people
will read that today, and they'll read that for a week or maybe a month down the line
because it still has relevance. So I'm looking for things that the industry is talking about.
“So yesterday I wrote about the Coyotes moving to broadcast. I'm looking for trends.
Barca [FC Barcelona] Media— earlier this week I wrote about Barca Media spinning off
their digital businesses. So I'm looking for things that people can learn from. And
ultimately the goal is can I make a really smart audience a little bit smarter each day?
That's the lens that I'm looking through. And if I can then I feel like I've done my job.”

On the framing of sports businesses that the moneymakers and
investors tend to take
“I think reach has become an increasing focus for sports properties,
recognizing that the everybody's not in the cable bundle anymore.
There's like 35 million people that now are outside the pay TV bundle.
So I think there's just an industrywide focus on reach. I think there's
an increasing shift to understanding or trying to understand who fans
are, and if you can understand who fans are, then you could start
focusing on what's the lifetime value and increasing the lifetime value
of those fans.

“So, you know, we've seen these integrations, an increased focus on data and data insights
over the last couple of years, but we're still in our infancy. Like, it's still almost at the data
aggregation and understanding data part of the process. Like, I don't know that we've
actually gotten to the part of the process yet where it's actionable and driving new
revenues. I think we're still in the early days of it. So I think that's where the long term
vision is; how do we we know who these fans are? And then we talk about maximizing
lifetime value of fans, which is what people talk about in other industries, but they don't
talk about in the context of sports. That seems like the sweet spot, the end goal.
“And again, as we talk about valuations, these teams are valued, especially these teams
with global followings, are valued significantly greater if you could put a per dollar value
on what each of those fans are. The problem right now is that, you know, you say you got
a gazillion fans, but you don't know who any of them are. How do you go about
monetizing them? The answer is you can't.”

On disparity in monetizing fans across leagues and countries
“[Soccer clubs with larger global fan bases] haven't figured out how to monetize
them, they've just figured out how to reach them. The European leagues have
done a better job of putting their product [out globally] — I mean, they were
ahead of the American leagues in terms of marketing their products, putting
people on the ground here in the US and bringing their products overseas
before we were doing that stuff. So, yeah, I don't know. The NFL, you know, is
the behemoth. For me, again, it gets its all back to reach — all their games air
on broadcast television or almost all the games are on broadcast television.
That's not the case in Europe. Even the Premier League games don't all air on
television, which is insane. I mean, imagine not being able to see your home
team's games in the NFL.

“So the NFL is king largely because they are on broadcast and the
reach. So I think that's the large part of the equation, and that's I
think what everybody is trying to figure out now is, as linear
television, as there's fewer people inside this cable bundle, how do we
maximize that reach? Because direct to consumer is is not going to
provide you that reach. I have a story coming out about is FAST [free
ad-supported TV] part of the equation? You know, a lot of eyeballs
there…”

“I think the NFL is doing a good job, though, of marketing a sport that
doesn't no one else plays. It's actually remarkable. I don't know if you
saw the highlights from those London games a few weeks ago, see
people walk in the stadium [fans] from all 32 teams. They're not there
to see the game, like they're just there because the NFL, it's almost
like actually wht the UFC has done, which I find remarkable every
single time they'll announce a pay per view and it sells out
immediately, and you don't even know who's fighting. It's just the
brand is big enough that people show up. That’s amazing. They’re
showing up in insane numbers, too; like, the dollar amounts — tickets
are crazy expensive.”

On news breakers and the media
“[We’re] talking about two different things, right? When I talk about the
limited value of breaking news, I'm talking in the context of sports
business. I mean, there's just limited breaking news. Do I need to know
that so-and-so signed a new sponsorship deal with a team? Or, like, even
the biggest story like X, Y, Z buys the x, y, z, right? Like, great. I'll hear
that in two minutes when the team releases a press release, no one's
paying for that news. And frankly, no one knows who breaks that news
unless you screw it up. So you see these reporters, you know, complaining
about not getting credited from another news outlet — no fan knows that.
No reader knows, and they don't care. It's such a losing proposition.

“When you talk about guys like Woj and Shams, they're serving a
different audience. They're serving the consumer, the fan. Of course
the sports fan wants to know if their team picked up a player a second
before another reporter. [For] the fan, it's a different value prop. Also,
by the way, the fan doesn't pay for that, right? They're getting that
information for free on Twitter. Nobody's paying for the sports
business news either.”

On the sports news media industry
“I mean, it's clear that the establishment is losing influence. You know, when we were kids,
I mean, ESPN was everything. And right now I personally will only go to ESPN if they're
airing a game that I want to watch, like live rights. So, you know, the establishment
certainly doesn't hold the cachet that it once did.
“I think people in general are more open to niche media publications. I mean, there's a
general mistrust of of media, so of course these niche media publications are gaining
influence. So, yeah, I mean, I really think that niche publications focused on teams and
leagues have tremendous opportunity and are really in an exciting place. There's certainly
room for team-generated content. And there's certainly room for, you know, national
media networks. There's room for everybody. But the consumer is definitely migrating
away from the national — you know, The Athletic model, to local on the ground or
grassroots publications. That's just where they feel like it's legit.”

“I think that younger generations will watch longer form content if the
content is good. I don't necessarily just believe that…There's no doubt
that it's hard to fit [long live games] into people's schedules these days. I
mean, it's just everything's more competitive, so you have to make it
more attractive. Look how much better baseball is because it's a 30
minute shorter product. It's so much more enjoyable, so much more
watchable. I'm a huge college football fan. It's very hard to fit four hours
into a day, to block out four hours. But that's not the reason they're not
watching, in my opinion. I mean, if they're not watching full games,
they're probably not watching full games because they don't have cable.
That's, you know, a bigger issue. They're watching YouTube, they're not
watching television. Just different consumption habits.

“I think there are ways to serve the game — I mean, I certainly do not
subscribe to the idea that the Gen Z's are not sports fans; that's a
ludicrous idea. There are certainly sports fans, they just consume
media in a different way…I know this sounds stupid and anecdotal, but
my daughter actually, who's six [years-old] and is not a fanatical sports
fan, we were watching a game last night [and] she said, are they going
to show the highlights of this? We were watching the Devils game. She
goes, are they going to show the highlights of this game in the Roblox
app? Because, you know, the the Roblox app has highlights and I didn't
know the answer to that. But like, if that's how kids are consuming
NHL media the night before games highlights should be in there.”

On the value of highlights
“Even if we put the monetization to the side, isn't it about building that [fan]? At least as I
see it, for a six year old girl, it's building the next generation of fans and fan engagement.
She doesn't watch Sports Center like I did. I'm not sure that the ten year old or 12 year olds
are watching Sports Center, but they're flipping on Roblox, so why not have the highlights
airing inside the Roblox game? They're already airing highlights in the game, that makes
logical enough sense to me…That's not exclusive, I don't think. But is that exclusive? Will
she watch the game with me too? Last night for the first period until she went to bed like, I
don't think it's exclusive. It's part of the solution.”
“It’s put content in as many places as possible. I'm sure you can monetize those people
inside of Roblox now with a whole bunch of digital products and such. But in the context
that I'm talking about, at least it's about talking to the next generation of fans. You're not
thinking about how to make the most money off of them today. You want to make sure that
in 20 years, your team valuations are still going up because you still have a fan base.”

On the increasingly global nature of sports leagues
“We ran a story not that long ago about hypersonic air travel and how
that could influence sport. And I think the idea, particularly if you start
talking about sovereign funds and international investment and
hypersonic air travel, I think it becomes clear that there's opportunities
for more Champions League or global sports properties, right? Like that
seems all logical enough in terms of where we're headed, particularly as
we talk about premiumization and pulling the best teams from around
the world together for competitions. You know, how great would it be to
have a World Baseball Series where the best teams from Japan played
against the best team [from the US] for a true World Series.

“So I think that stuff is all likely and possible and probable. And I have a
story actually coming out about the Americanization of Australian sport.
You're seeing, I mean, everything from investment interest in there to US
sports properties going there to actual leagues over there embracing
American models like business models. So I'm a believer in that, certainly
that you're going to see more of those properties. But that doesn't mean
that there's less domestic leagues or less room for them. I don't see any
future where there's less leagues. All I can see is more properties popping
up every day. Like literally every single day I hear about a new sports
league. So, yes to more globalization, more international competition, all
that kind of stuff. Yes, also to just more sport, more entertainment, more
live entertainment.”

On pickleball
“The bet [for pickleball] is the participation, the idea being that in most countries in the
world, participation correlates with fandom. Like, the most popular played sports are the
most popular watched sports. That's not the case here in the US. But if you believe that
pickleball is going to increase in participation here, then it's reasonable to believe that
viewership and fandom will increase. I am more interested in the ecosystem around
pickleball personally. The rating systems, the equipment, all that kind of stuff, and being
able to control that or being able to at least monetize that and tap into some of the
monetization around that than imagining a stadium full of pickleball fans.
“But we're in [the] infancy. You know, it wasn't that long ago — like nobody went to NBA
games in the 70s either. Sometimes it just takes a while for the stuff to get going. MLS is 25
years in now. Same thing with the WNBA. Those leagues are 25 years old now and they’re
first gaining any semblance of momentum.”

On the future of JohnWallStreet
“When it comes to where we're going we're building out a consulting and
events business. We're thinking about events in a very high-end, curated,
invite-only kind of context most of the time. Because, again, those events
are designed to really drive our consulting business. And consulting
means a lot of different things. It could mean project-based consulting
on a media rights deal, but it also could mean market research. It could
mean white label newsletter creation. It could mean all sorts of different
things. So I think ultimately it’s driven by the influence of the newsletter.
So the newsletter drives the consulting and events business.

“In terms of where the focus goes, I think that we continue to spend a lot
of time on trends and things that are working within the landscape and of
course the big topics, if you will. I'd like to increasingly play more in the
investment space. I don't think I do enough. Particularly in the early stage
investment space. For two reasons, one being that those companies don't
generate a ton of coverage elsewhere, so it's a real differentiator for John
Wall Street. Usually like, you know, your Bloombergs and Wall Street
Journals of the world aren't covering companies until they're half-
unicorns or bigger. So there's an opportunity there. I'm also increasingly
playing more in the early stage space, setting up a lot of roadshows for
startups and such. So that fits in nicely with part of the consulting
business. So I'd like to do more coverage.

“I don't think there's the feeling of like, should we not talk because we
don't want our secrets getting out? I think it's actually just the opposite,
particularly on the early stage. Most of these funds are investing
alongside one another. It's not real competitive like it is on the late stage
side. You know, late stage investments are a little bit different. It's much
more competitive. The earliest, particularly on the early side, these
investors are eager to explain why they backed these companies and
why they think these are cool companies and are going to do something
big and try to put these companies on the radar of people that matter.
So, no, I'm not finding any semblance of pushback as it relates to talking
about investment or why smart money is doing what it's doing.”

The sport or sports league who stalk Corey would most want to buy today
and hold for the next 5 or 10 years. And then also the opposite. Which
one would Corey least want to buy and hold?
“I’m super bullish on a second winner in mixed martial arts for sure. And
least excited about? Gosh, I don't know… I would be hesitant to invest at
the levels that the MLS teams are are being purchased at today, I will say
[that] those teams will probably continue to climb for the same reasons
we spoke about before, but the underlying business case, the revenues
that are generated relative to the valuations are just absurd and relative
to other opportunities in the US, I would say they would rank on the less
attractive in my opinion.”

Which individual will have the most influence over sports business in
the next ten years?
“I [am going] to say Ari Emanuel, because I don't think they're done
buying stuff.”

The fan experience or fan engagement area that is most intriguing to
Corey right now and why?
“I think the most important one that hasn't been addressed is entry into
the stadium. It still takes way too long to get into a sports facility, and the
weather is not often good in the winter, or it's raining and you're standing
outside and there's technology that exists to walk in and not have to be
patted down. I am not sure why every stadium doesn't have that at this
point…The other thing is WiFi. That ios the most frustrating, least
understandable (fan) problem I encounter…It is beyond comprehension
that a facility would not have the WiFi needed to [enable] fans to post
[from there].”

What medium guess or what station, you're thinking about TV —
where will be watching the Super Bowl in the year 2040?
“I'm still betting linear broadcast. You know, I'm still saying CBS,
NBC, FOX is still the heavy favorite.”

Which would Corey call the most innovative team or league right now
and why?
“The Big 12. Brett Yormark, my new conference [Corey is an Arizona
alum]. [The Big 12] is doing everything, trying everything. I mean,
they are doing a great job at innovation and trying different things.”

The most memorable game Corey has attended as a fan and the most memorable game
Corey ever watched [not in person]
“This is a hard question because like, I'm a Jets fan and I was at the fake spike [game].
That was the butt fumble. Like, are those the most memorable? I mean those are the
most famous. The best game I've ever been at. Gosh, I don't know. I’ve been at three
remarkable college football games in the last few years — I mean, these aren't like the
most famous games, but I was at a Florida-Tennessee game that ended on a Hail Mary. I
was at the Texas A&M game where they beat Bama a couple of years ago, you know, the
first time a Saban assistant had beat Saban, and also, I think the first time an unranked
team had beaten Saban…Honestly, the Jets opener this year is pretty damn memorable.
Rodgers got hurt, they won on a punt return. I mean pretty memorable. You know, I'm
also partial to, as an Arizona Wildcats fan — they shut out Miami in the Fiesta Bowl.
There's been some great memories along the way. You know, the ‘98 Holiday Bowl.

What will eventually stop sports leagues or team valuations from
continually going up forever? Or will new revenue streams just keep
rising for the foreseeable future?
“It's hard to suggest that they’re going to stop going up. It’s hard to
suggest that there’s not going to be new and emerging media platforms,
technologies, ways to monetize the fans. So it's crazy to suggest that we've
capped anything out. And I don't see the demand for live entertainment
stopping anytime soon. I have a hard time believing that sports is not
going to be just as popular in 100 years as it is today. So I have a very
hard time believing that those teams aren't going to be significantly more
valuable in 100 years than they are today. I would bet on sports.”

The best meal to get in New Jersey and
where to get it
“I'm from Livingston, New Jersey. There
used to be a restaurant in Livingston
called Stretches. I once ran into Darrelle
Revis at Stretches when he was playing for
the Jets. The restaurant has since closed,
but they had a chicken Savoy dish, which
is legendary. It's called like Stretch’s
chicken and a lot of places and now it's
sold at a store called Mars in Roseland,
which I frequently visit to get specifically
that dish. So that is like a very local thing.

“I'm a big fan of Livingston
Bagel, although it's certainly not
what it once was. Calabria's Pizza
— while Dave Portnoy rated it an
8.9, I won't say it's a legit 8.9,
but a very good slice for a
hometown slice. It's okay. Those
are a couple spots I still go to.”

The most important lesson or learning from Corey’s time producing
JohnWallStreet
“I mean, just the value of putting out content. Very early on at JohnWallStreet I
was talking to a class at Columbia… They had said something that had really
struck home with me and like, you had all these kids that were grad students at
Columbia that were looking to break into sports and these kids all think that,
you know, they went to a great undergrad, they're going to this great grad
school and they're going to fall into a sports job, and the truth is that they're
probably not because there's a million other kids just like them. The guy who's
going to get the job is the guy who's cranking out content in his basement that's
building a fan base and an audience and a platform. That's the guy a team or a
league wants to hire, and that actually brings real value.

“So I'm not saying there isn't that going down another path is wrong
or anything. I'm just suggesting that putting out content is a
phenomenal way to get discovered. It is a living resume, and if you
want to work in sports and you think you know what you're talking
about and you have an expertise in a specific area, drill down on that.
And and, you know, there's riches in niches, as they say.”

Who will own ESPN in ten years?
“I don't know, but I think you're trying to get me to say, you know,
Amazon or something like that, and I'm not buying. I don't know
who's buying them, but I'm not biting on what you're selling here…I
don't know. Can the company exist as a standalone? I don't know.”

Corey’s Social Media All-Star to Follow
“My favorite Twitter follow is Bob Thompson (@rltsports) Bob
Thompson is the single best addition to Twitter in like, the last two
years. Former president of Fox Sports Networks, is active and
engaging and will really kind of give people an understanding as to
the RSN ecosystem and the paid media ecosystem. Really smart guy
who's investing way more time and energy into the platform than he
probably should, but any of us who consume Twitter as I do should be
really thankful for it. He's a wealth of information.”

Where to find JohnWallStreet and Corey on digital/social
Go to JohnWallStreet.com and subscribe to the JohnWallStreet
newsletter
Find JWS on LinkedIn at JohnWallStreet
Follow him on Twitter @HowieLongShort
Reach him on email at jws@johnwallstreet.com

@njh287; www.dsmsports.net
Thanks again to Corey for being so generous with his time to share his
knowledge, experience, and expertise with me!
For more content and episodes, subscribe to the podcast, follow me
on LinkedIn and on Twitter @njh287, and visit www.dsmsports.net.

Episode 257 Snippets: Corey Leff of JohnWallStreet

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