Episode 236 Snippets: RJ Kaminski of the Premier Lacrosse League

On episode 236 of the Digital and Social Media
Sports Podcast, Neil chatted with RJ Kaminski,
Director of Brand for the Premier Lacrosse League
What follows is a collection of snippets from the
podcast. To hear the full interview and more,
check out the podcast on all podcast platforms and
at www.dsmsports.net.
@njh287; www.dsmsports.net
Best Of The Digital and
Social Media Sports Podcast
Episode 236: RJ Kaminski

RJ’s Career Path
“The original dream for me was to get into sports
broadcasting. I got some advice a while back that I
needed to learn how to write before I could go into a
profession like that, so I went to journalism school; I
spent four years doing broadcast journalism at [the
University of] Maryland. Thankfully, I got my hands
dirty, learning how to edit my own stuff. I one-man-
banned it there on the shooting side, capturing my
own stories.

“I spent a couple of years at The Lacrosse Network
after I graduated [from] Maryland, just shooting
YouTube videos in New York with pro athletes,
mostly lacrosse players. And then I had the
opportunity to come join the PLL team when [they
were] gonna announce this thing and move out
west in 2019. So that was about four years ago
today, and my position in the league has evolved
from host and coordinator to working on the brand
side now, and then also doing some hosting on the
side.”

On getting into lacrosse
“[Lacrosse] wasn't my passion sport necessarily. It was just a sport
that I had been around really my whole life. Going to Boys Latin [for
high school], it was a big lacrosse school and thankfully I had an
opportunity to work alongside a close friend of mine in high school
for a senior project of his, ‘Shootout for Soldiers’ is what we called it.
It was a 24-hour lacrosse game that raised money for veterans'
charities while also playing a long, continuous game of lacrosse.
“So working on that nonprofit for 5, 6, 7 years, I was able to really
create a lot of relationships in the space, which ultimately led to me
going to TLN and getting the opportunity to go to the PLL.”

On working with creator space pioneers Colin and Samir with TLN
“Oh man. First off, I learned tons about just vlogging in general.
Marketing, like marketing tactics back in 2019, 2020 in particular,
working alongside them. And really, just the do’s and dont’s of YouTube,
Instagram, Twitter — those two have just been a wealth of knowledge for
me and it was really a testament to them and what they did that allowed
me to do what I have done and what I am am doing now. So, I’m eternally
grateful for those guys for really charting the path on the vlog side and
the lacrosse base.
“Those guys were the first to do it and did it really damn well snd are
continuing to do really well, too. Shout out to those two. They just
crossed a million [subscribers] on YouTube, recently, and they're
presenting at the Streamies tonight. They're kicking ass.”

On understanding and embracing the vlogger/new media
creator opportunity
“Coming out of college, I had two routes; it was either go the
traditional broadcast journalism path and go work for
someone sitting behind a desk cutting tape, whether it's a
CNN or CBS, something like that. A few of my internships
had lent some great experience to going down that path. The
other path was just the opportunity I had at TLN, which was
go be myself on camera, and shoot YouTube videos and
develop my own show, and run a social channel there at TLN.
The second one was just much more appetizing for me and
allowed me to actually just be me on camera.

“So I took that one, spent a couple years in New
York and you just learn so much shooting and
editing your own YouTube video every single week.
It's trial by fire. So during those two years, aside
from just building relationships in the lacrosse
space [and] in the greater media space — whether it
was some of our partners like Barstool [Sports] or
some other media companies there, it was just my
chance to really learn how it's done and make
mistakes, to put myself in a better position for my
next bout, which was PLL.”

How RJ came upon the PLL and what it was like
joining a league that was just launching
“[The PLL] was a rumor going around the lacrosse
space and just the general sports space before the
PLL had announced. So, just hearsay here and there.
But knowing the team that was behind it — one, Paul
and Mike [Rabil], and knowing Paul personally at
that point and just knowing what he was capable of
from a marketing perspective and just the
horsepower that he brings to the table.

“Then, two, they had taken my friend and manager,
Tyler from TLN, who was my boss at the time, who's just
fantastic — I actually still live with Tyler, I've worked
with him for 7, 8, 9 years through Shootout for Soldiers,
through TLN and through PLL. And once I was able to
see the other members of the team they were amassing, I
just saw the tremendous upside and opportunity with
this thing to get in at the ground floor and I basically just
said yes on the phone and after, you know, maybe a week
of negotiating and figuring out what everything looked
like with me moving out there, I was in LA. I was out of
New York for good.”

On RJ’s role and responsibility in bringing the PLL and its brand
to life on social
“Starting with a blank slate, it's an incredible challenge first off,
but it's one that we were ready to take on. I think the most exciting
part for me was the fact that our strategy [was around] two key
pillars…One was ‘let's see what our fans think.’ So for everything
that we wanted to do, really, aside from team logos and team
names, we said, ‘Let's just ask our fans.’ Where do our fans want
us to come for the summer tour? What do our fans want to see
from us on our social platforms? Just quite literally going to social
and we would type in those questions. ‘What do you wanna see?
What should we do?’ Just so we can actually hear from them.

“Then the second piece there was being completely transparent about every
single act we were doing as a business. So when we launched our partnership
with Adidas, we knew that we needed to sit Paul down and do another ‘state
of the league’ and explain what this decision means, why we partnered with
Adidas; and the same goes for all our other announcements, whether it was
Gatorade or any other major moment in year one. And basically anything was
a major moment. Any sponsor that we brought on, whatever it was, required
us to create a campaign around it, and then also [for] Paul to sit down and
just look into the lens and say ‘Here's what we did, here's why we did it.’ And
we thought that was a big differentiator for us. We know it was, because other
leagues don't turn the camera on and justify the decisions they make to their
audience on social, on YouTube. and we were doing that.
“So it was another way for us to be different, but also bring the fans more into
the fold with us and give them confidence that we were being transparent and
showing them our cards and bringing them along for the ride.”

On the players having a stake in the success of the league
“The beauty of it is that the players were quite literally in
it with us from the beginning. So you have this element
of player buy-in that just does not exist in any other
league, especially the core four sports leagues, where
guys are all making millions of dollars. So when we
would have players to the office, even year one once we
finally had our first game, any kind of content requests,
any kind of interview requests — ‘Hey, can you do this?
Can you sign this? Can you say this?’ was just met with a
smile and a ‘Hell yeah, let's do it.’

“Players also recognized from the jump, thankfully, that any kind of
growth from the league meant growth for themselves too, and an
opportunity to grow their own brand, both in the larger sports ecosystem
as well as within the lacrosse ecosystem. So it was just always met with a
‘Yeah, let's do this thing.’ And for me, being a member of the content
team, it was a gold mine. There was no player that was off-limits based
on their superstar status. Everyone was willing to jump in and be a part
of the content that we were creating, so it just made life really easy.
“And I know that doesn't exist in other leagues, especially with the big
dogs where these guys don't get benefit from being on the NBA IG story
or being in a social campaign for NBA Twitter. It just quite literally
doesn't drive them much value, whereas in our boat, it was completely
different. It was quite a symbiotic relationship.”

On the PLL’s fanbase and the fans they’re working to
develop
“So I think from announcement [of the league], It made
sense to just go after the lacrosse fan first. We quite
literally built the following in the early days largely off the
back of Paul's social. Paul had by far the most engaged-with
account, the most followed account in the space, so we we
were really growing off of a lot of the announcements that
we were making through Paul's megaphone until we got the
PLL megaphone up to par with enough of a following to
actually go and make announcements over on that channel.

“The evolution of the PLL fan has been interesting to watch, because
now when we think of our league announcements, we're trying to reach
the casual sports fan, we're trying to reach the fringe lacrosse fan, and
of course we're looking to reach the hardcore lacrosse fan. But the most
satisfying part has been watching the fan who really doesn't have an
interest in the sport of lacrosse, but something along the way — a
campaign that we did — sparked their interest enough to follow along,
which led them a little bit further down the fan funnel to potentially
watch a game with us, and then they're really in it. And then they're
potentially picking a team and then they're potentially appearing in
person. So watching some of those fan journeys just on Twitter as you
can see when someone follows along or when you see someone start to
engage and then see them actually come to a game — watching that
probably has been the best part. And seeing various different
ecosystems engage with the PLL in the ways that they want to.

“So some of our casual fans will never come to see
a game, they're content watching the PLL through
the lens of social, and then some of our fans will
travel to four or five or six games across the
summer and make a road trip out of it. So there's
quite a variety there. But watching the fan
journeys from year one to where we are now has
really been fascinating.”

On the entry points for PLL fans
“The opportunity that we have with [the brand] Champion, for
example, in regards to distribution and the chance to reach other
sports fans that don't know much about lacrosse. [A] recent
example [was] we did a commercial with Myles Jones where we
have this young kid and he evolves into Myles Jones. Myles talks
about not having a role model in his life growing up that played
lacrosse, and then, you know, the kid basically grows into Myles
Jones and he is shooting and scoring in a PLL game. That,
especially through Champion’s distribution assistance, is able to
reach casual sports fans and gets them to turn their head and
say, ‘Wow, they're pumping out commercials like these.’

“This was an inspirational bit [and makes them ask] ‘What is
the PLL? Who is Myles Jones?’ And then they follow along and
whether it's just from a passive capacity and they're just keeping
an eye on what we're doing or whether they're ready to come to
a game or turn on the TV to see a Redwoods game, whatever it
may be — there's an interest sparked.
“We've done that through commercials, we've done that through
other campaigns, whether it's through PLL Assists, some of our
indigenous heritage efforts, things of that nature. The beauty is
there's just so many campaigns that we run through the year
that have a chance to catch the eye of someone that doesn't
follow lacrosse and get them to follow along.”

On the creating fans of the league, the sport, the players, the
[non geo-based] teams?
“You can't just boil the ocean. So I mean it'd be great for us to
run a season and then lacrosse participation jumps. It just
doesn't work like that. What we're focused on here, especially
this season in particular, is driving fandom for individual
teams. We know what our core fan base looks like. We know
what the average PLL fan looks. However, it's on us now
heading into year five to do what we can to drive fans down a
certain funnel and to affiliate with a certain team.

“It's great that people show up to PLL games wearing the
hat like I've got on a PLL hat and a PLL shirt. And it's
kind of crazy to hear people like there are PLL chants at
our game — kids are chanting ‘PLL!’ You wouldn't see that
in an NNFL game or MLB game. These fans are incredibly
supportive of just us, the league. So we've checked that
box a good bit, of course there's still a ton of work to be
done, but the next box is really the fan affinity side. So
let's drive those quote-unquote ‘PLL and League fans’ to
associate with a team, to follow that team specifically
across social, so that we can continue to diversify those
fan bases and not just have a large group of PLL fans.

“Then the other piece is us just differentiating those
team accounts as we grow and develop those individual
brands. Especially for your listeners that don't know
necessarily much about the PLL, we are one single
entity, we do own all the teams. So it's important for us,
especially heading into this fifth year now, to
differentiate those teams and have them operate
independently across social in particular. That's what
we've done now. We now have individual teams
assigned to each club so that we can differentiate that
voice much more than we have in the past.”

“It's [about] building rivalries, man. It's getting the opportunity to have
competing fan sections at games. It's what you see in the more traditional
sports media landscape. It's being able to attend a Redwoods-
Whipsnakes game, and have one part of the stadium cheer when a ball
goes in one net, and then the same for the other side. That's happening
and we're progressing there, but there's a lot of work that goes into
actually getting a fan to pick a side, to pick a team or pick two teams or
just follow a superstar.
“I think the NBA’s model is really interesting in particular of how fans
react to those teams and players. I really only follow a few teams based
upon the superstars that I enjoy watching, so it's not like I'm cheering for
the Wizards because they're a half hour [away] from me in Baltimore. I'm
actually cheering for Steph Curry, I'm cheering for Joel Embiid because I
enjoy turning on the TV and watching him perform.”

On developing and differentiating the team brands and voices
on social
“It's largely driven by the culture that's developed from the head
coach and the players of those clubs. For example, I think Chaos
is one that we can start with — a team that quite literally is
incredibly chaotic in the locker room. Pregame speeches, and
for those that don't know who are listening, the Chaos are led by
Andy Towers, who's an incredible head coach. He's about six
foot five, he's bald and you can hear him from a mile away. [He]
gives incredible pump-up speeches, usually has an incredible
anecdote to get his guys fired up, and it usually goes viral the
next day for how he got his guys going in the locker room.

“Teams like that are much easier to define on social and
to build around in regards to what their voice sounds
like on Twitter or what their style and cadence is on
Instagram or across any of the other social platforms.
Other teams can present more of a challenge. I think
Chrome and Waterdogs have presented in the past a bit
more of a challenge than a team like Chaos, for example.
“But it's always just this incredible creative back and
forth process that we go through for each of these clubs
and how can we make them different from one another
so that they're not just this cookie cutter template that
looks like it's all being run by the same person.”

On RJ becoming a very visible face of the league on
social over time
“It's really cool. It's really unique and I know this
opportunity really doesn't exist in other sports leagues.
From day one when I joined the PLL I was given a
camera, wasn't given much direction, and was basically
the proclaimed tour guide of the league to showcase to
those who are at home what it looks like on a PLL game
day, what it sounds like in the locker room and just what
it looks like for a typical game day, with no red tape.

“So that's what I've been given the privilege and
opportunity to do. And with that, and putting out
content on a weekly basis and being a part of a team
that quite literally is in the building. We the PLL are
building in the open. People talk about our ratings,
people talk about our sponsorships, all in a public
setting — Twitter or Reddit, Instagram, whatever it
may be, the comment section on YouTube — with
that responsibility and with that opportunity just
comes feedback, criticism all in a public forum that
other people don't get at normal jobs.

“People are dissecting your performance when you get back from work
that are outside of your company. People aren't rambling on social
about how Neil had a bad week or how Neil just made a terrible
decision here. So with the territory can come some struggles and some
unique challenges that yyou just have to overcome and you build
mental fortitude over the countless times that they happen.
“But overall, man, it's an opportunity that I'm incredibly thankful for
and it's a unique one. And with it comes responsibility, too — just
being a good role model, too, across social is something to be
thoughtful of. I can't just post anything I want or say anything I want.
Of course I try to do that largely [in general], but also keeping in mind
that I do need to have a bit of a filter and understand who's watching
me and make sure I'm setting a good example for those at home.”

On what content resonates with fans
“Player personalities for sure far and away, but nothing's better than when a
player in our league just really gets comfortable with myself and the camera and
the back and forth is just so organic, man. So you're sitting at home and you're
watching someone like Myles Jones barrel someone over and put it in the back of
the net from two and then you see him in the locker room with his shirt off
drinking a beer, celebrating with his teammates, making jokes, and singing along
to his favorite Drake album. Those are the moments that humanize our players
and really deepen the fandom that already exists there and potentially attracts a
new fan to follow along with someone like Myles. That’s far and away type of
content that works the best.
“And of course we have some pretty funny fans too that we capture engagements
with and whether it's a seat upgrade or whether it's joking around with someone
in the Premier Zone [at games] some of those moments really shine too for us.”

On balancing lacrosse content with humanizing content
“In my mind, we've hit the lacrosse fan. Lacrosse fans
know we're here. They know of the PLL at the very
least. So really our job is the casual [fan], our job is
finding other sports fans out there, whether they're
sports fans, whether they're sports betters, and finding
unique ways to bring them in and educate them on the
PLL and get them to take a chance on us. Whether it's
tuning into a game for five minutes or even potentially
a step further, attending one in person.”

“It's funny, too, watching the evolution of [of
lacrosse] from the respect of the larger sports
community for what we're doing in the sport of
lacrosse as a whole s fantastic. I mean, Charlotte's a
brand new market we go to. We're in Charlotte
[and] Paul is sitting on press row [alongside] Sam
Darnold, Luke Kuechly — like we're talking about
local legends. These guys are sitting there and
they're just, they're in awe. They're in awe of the
sport, they're in we ofl the physicality, and there's
this incredible respect there.

“So part of my role is showcasing that to other
people to see, because, you know, Chuba Hubbard
[is] sitting there too, so someone in Carolina's like,
‘Wow, this guy's showing mad respect to these
guys in the physicality on that field. That guy gets
the shit beat out of him every day on Sunday in the
NFL, so there must be something to this game
that's worth tuning in for.”’

On maximizing the PLL’s tentpole events and national linear
broadcast windows
“There's a number of ways to look at [retention of new fans],
but the one thing that I know we have going for us is our
product. We quite literally have the best product and the best
guys out there playing it. So that mixed with our innovation
on the broadcast side — whether it's in-game back and forth
on the mics between the booth and the players, or whether
it's the in-game drone that we tested out this year to have live
drone footage in-game — that's the recipe in my mind that's
gonna be able to attract a fan and retain them to stay on for
the game or to come back for another one.

“Retention can be one of the hardest things to succeed in for a sports
league. But when the product's there and the product's the best out there
that combines [with] what we're doing in the broadcast side and the talent
in the booth, to me it's gonna be tough for them to flip the channel.”
“[And the broadcast is] something that we're continuing to approve upon.
There are a number of other things that we can do to continue to freshen
up the broadcast and keep someone's attention that knows nothing about
the game and also inform them during the game to make sure that they're
learning and they're not just — I kind of experienced this with rugby.
When I tune into rugby, I quite literally don't know what's going on. So
I'm looking for those moments where the talent in the booth can point me
in the right direction or at least give me something that I can take away
and learn from the game. So we're really trying to do our part with that on
the education side. too.”

On content and fan engagement during the
offseason
“That's a real challenge, but it's a fun one. It’s just
making sure that whatever you're putting out there
isn't just to fill space. It's not just a graphic like
‘We need more Happy birthday graphics. We need
this, we need that to populate the timeline.’ It's
just making sure that any campaigns that we do
come up with are gonna be of interest to our fans.

“One that comes to top of mind is when the NBA
Playoffs were going on, we polled our guys on who's
gonna win it. Like, let's put out a graphic of our
superstars and see what they think this stretch that
we're in for the playoffs. And that's a chance for us to
jump in other conversations in the sports world that
are going on but that's actually gonna be of interest to
our fans. So that's just one example. Really, those are
the most fun times for our marketing team, because
we'd like to think we're pretty creative and can come
out with some ways to keep those fans engaged.”

A day in the life of RJ on a typical PLL game day
“Wake up. Largely, [the] first thing on my mind is
promotion. So game graphics promo, where are our hype
videos living, where are those going out? Make sure that
we're beating the drum every single hour leading up to
game day. [Then] have player arrivals there, our photogs
and social team have that thing down to a science, so I'm
usually just hanging out during that period and getting
ready to go into the Fan Zone. [I] usually spend 20, 30
minutes in the fan zone shooting with fans and players.

“Then I get into the stadium, do some more promo
[for] tune in, whether it's Stories, Twitter, whatever,
getting people notified when the game is, where it is,
and continuing to hammer that home. Then players
come out for warmups [and I] start filming. Usually
at this point I try not to film with guys during the
game. That's their go time, so let's respect that.
During the game, it's really a back and forth between
in the stands, on the field, in the stands, on the field,
trying to vary the perspective and just hit as many
different places as I possibly can.

“Go in [at] halftime, chat with the refs, go in the refs’ locker room, go in
the Redwoods locker room, go in the Whipsnakes’s locker room,
whatever teams are playing that day. Come back on the field and then
that back and forth continues. Walk around the concourse, get something
to eat, showcase something tangible at home that the viewer can leave
with, whether it's going to the crabcake truck in Baltimore — let's film
that because that's a flavor of the hometown.
“Then [for the] winning team, let's get in their locker room, let's talk
about the win. Maybe the guys are shit talking. Maybe the guys are just in
a really great mood throwing jokes around. And then do it all over again
for the second game. And then do it all over again the next day for those
games, back to back. Shoot the footage back to my editor and then give
notes [on] Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Then, usually the vlog gets out
Tuesday or Wednesday.”

RJ’s favorite memory from his time working with
WBAL
“[My] best memory was [Baltimore Orioles All-Star]
Adam Jones telling me lacrosse isn't a real sport in
the locker room, and then having a back and forth
with him about why it is a real sport and why it's
better than baseball…He also made fun of volleyball,
too. I was a volleyball player at Boys Latin, so we had
some jokes about that.”

RJ’s most memorable fan interaction in his time
with the PLL
“By far when anyone paints their chest with my
name on it. These two kids came in Atlanta and
they had the R and the J, and I was floored. So
moments like that, which I do not deserve — like,
I'm not a pro athlete. I shouldn't have that going
on, but I did and it was fucking awesome.”

The most important lesson that RJ has picked up
about what makes for great host-led video content
or a great vlog
“Move fast. Cut what's unnecessary and move your
feet…Cut out the ums, cut out any dead space and
keep that thing moving. People's time is valuable.”

The PLL player whose social media we should go
check out and also the player that we should go
watch a highlight of right now
“Social media. Let's go Josh Byrne (@joshbyrne22
on IG). Josh has a good social presence. And then
highlights, Jeff Teat [then with Atlas] fricking
made SportsCenter like four or five times this
year. He's an animal.”

About how the PLL activated their partnership with Utz with the
Cheese Ball toss
“Utz was a sponsor of ours back in 2020. [The] pandemic hit, and
we wanted to activate our pros, so we did so in a virtual format
[with] IG Live. We basically put out a bracket for pros that were
gonna throw Cheese Balls into each other's mouths. We wanted to
see who could do it the fastest and then just showcase it to the
world.
“So we had these guys lobbing Cheese Balls into their mouths for
everyone to see in a time when no one had anything else going on.
So people tuned in to see [and] it performed pretty well for us.”

The moment from Fate of A Sport that kind of stuck with RJ the most
“Definitely Lyle [Thompson]’s quote about winning championships. ‘If
you weren't present doing it, then what was it all worth?’ I think that was
the quote that really resonated with me the most because I think we're all
on our own individual hamster wheels and we're looking to climb the
ladder. We're looking to gather more materialistic things. We're looking
to make more money, we're looking to check all of these things off that
we think are important in the evolution of our own individual lives.
“But the note from Lyle is to ensure that you're present in the journey
because the journey is ultimately what the most important piece is. So
just reminding yourself of that versus continuing to look up or look
around the corner for what's next.”

The most viral post or piece of content in RJ’s time with PLL so far
“Most viral would have to be our 9/11 post of Wells Crowther. It was
a graphic that outlined his story. Of course, it really resonates with
the lacrosse community, but it has really begun to resonate outside of
the lacrosse community in the last few years in particular. So that's
one that I think by far was our biggest performing post this year.
“The beauty behind that post is that we've actually started working
really closely with Wells's mother and his foundation. So we pick a
weekend where we honor Wells on 9/11 each year. We did a bandana
giveaway this year and put together a pretty incredible recap of his
mom coming and speaking at halftime. So that's something we're
really proud of.”

The best meal that RJ has had on the road with the
PLL and the best meal to get in Maryland
“Albany Diner, which is just fantastic, man.
Macaroni, cheesesteaks sandwiches, ice cream bar.
Nothing beats the Albany Diner and I hope we go to
training camp there every year…
“[In Maryland] Carson's Creekside. I actually used to
[be a waiter] there, I used to bus there and I used to
drive the golf cart there, picking people up and
taking them to the restaurant. Really great seafood
dishes as well as other steak dishes. We've got my
favorite, which is a black and blue pasta penne dish.
Really fantastic. And also the fresh fried mozzarella
is fantastic, too.”

RJ’s prediction for the MVP and the breakout
player for the PLL in 2023
“MVP — Jeff Teat. I've gotta go Jeff Teat. And then
for breakout player, I'm gonna go Grant Ament
coming back off of injury, I think Grant's gonna
put up some record numbers. It was tough to see
him sit out so much this year, so I think Grant
Ament is gonna come back with a vengeance.”

RJ’s Social Media All-Star to Follow
I'll shout out our two photogs, Liam Murphy
(@liam__murphy on Instagram) and Nick Ieradi
(@n18productions on Instagram). They both put
together a carousel after every weekend of some of
their favorite shots that they take, and those guys
are really freaking talented. So I would follow our
two photogs.”

Where to find RJ and the PLL on digital/social
media
Follow @PLL everywhere except Twitter where
they are @PremierLacrosse
RJ is @RJKaminsky on Twitter, Instagram, and
TikTok

Thanks again to RJ for being so generous
with his time to share his knowledge,
experience, and expertise with me!
For more content and episodes, subscribe to
the podcast, follow me on LinkedIn and on
Twitter @njh287, and visit
www.dsmsports.net.
@njh287; www.dsmsports.net

Episode 236 Snippets: RJ Kaminski of the Premier Lacrosse League

Episode 236 Snippets: RJ Kaminski of the Premier Lacrosse League

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Episode 236 Snippets: RJ Kaminski of the Premier Lacrosse League