Course EDLR 608-School and Society Discussion's question After reading Chapter 2, go to youtube and watch the following video....RSA Animate-Changing Education Paradigms by Sir Ken Robinson. Start a discussion regarding the video and Chapter 2. (Hint-you will love this video!!) First student's discussion Scott Leverenz Chapter two This video and the chapter did make one thing clear, that there needs to be some sort of changes made in our schools today. Children are growing at different paces and learning in new ways and todays educational organizations need to find ways to keep up with the modern society. We cannot rush children and at the same time we cannot hold others back. The curriculum is forced upon teachers and leaves very little room for creativity and growth. Stimulation may be harder to find in some children and even in some teachers but forcing all to work at the same pace and same structure cannot be the answer. I do agree that schools have good intentions and have the best interest of the children in mind however they have created an organized functional framework that seems to be leaving a lot of children in the dark or failing behind. Some kids are not being exposed to the proper amount of stimulation or influence they need to thrive and develop. .Grading scales should be tampered with in a manner that fits individual needs and talents. Second student's discussion Michael Heckendorn After watching the RSA Animate and reading chapter two, I have come to the realization that schools need to change. Not tomorrow, but now. Schools are stuck in the period of industrial revolution, rather than modern/technological progress. I will highlight two of the points made by the video and the chapter that have convinced me that something needs to change. Both the movie and our chapter discussed how students are sent through the assembly line of school by their chrnological age -- as if it is the most important factor. I do agree that age is a factor, but what are the other factors? There is intellectual age, developmental stage,  and social skills stages amongst others. I agree that a 7 year old in first grade who is competent to do 3rd grade work should not be in first grade. But I'm not sure if the 7 year old should be grouped with the developmental age/social skills age of 9-10 year olds. Regardless of this point, sending students through school simply on the factor of age is a major disservice to the student. I currently work with a 7th grader who has failed every 6th grade class last year and is currently failing every 7th grade class. He is not even being considered for retainment because he hit puberty first and he looks like he's 14. There needs to be a balance between intellectual levels and chronological age. I'm not sure where that balance is or what is the most important, but the system does need to change.  My second point is that of the content being taught and how it is taught. In reality, teachers have no choice of .

1. Course EDLR 608-School and Society
Discussion's question
After reading Chapter 2, go to youtube and watch the following
video....RSA Animate-Changing Education Paradigms by Sir
Ken Robinson.
Start a discussion regarding the video and Chapter 2.
(Hint-you will love this video!!)
First student's discussion
Scott Leverenz
Chapter two
This video and the chapter did make one thing clear, that there
needs to be some sort of changes made in our schools today.
Children are growing at different paces and learning in new
ways and todays educational organizations need to find ways to
keep up with the modern society. We cannot rush children and
at the same time we cannot hold others back. The curriculum is
forced upon teachers and leaves very little room for creativity
and growth. Stimulation may be harder to find in some children
and even in some teachers but forcing all to work at the same
pace and same structure cannot be the answer.
I do agree that schools have good intentions and have the best
interest of the children in mind however they have created an
organized functional framework that seems to be leaving a lot
of children in the dark or failing behind. Some kids are not
being exposed to the proper amount of stimulation or influence
they need to thrive and develop. .Grading scales should be
tampered with in a manner that fits individual needs and talents.
Second student's discussion
Michael Heckendorn

2. After watching the RSA Animate and reading chapter two, I
have come to the realization that schools need to change. Not
tomorrow, but now. Schools are stuck in the period of industrial
revolution, rather than modern/technological progress. I will
highlight two of the points made by the video and the chapter
that have convinced me that something needs to change. Both
the movie and our chapter discussed how students are sent
through the assembly line of school by their chrnological age --
as if it is the most important factor. I do agree that age is a
factor, but what are the other factors? There is intellectual age,
developmental stage, and social skills stages amongst others. I
agree that a 7 year old in first grade who is competent to do 3rd
grade work should not be in first grade. But I'm not sure if the 7
year old should be grouped with the developmental age/social
skills age of 9-10 year olds. Regardless of this point, sending
students through school simply on the factor of age is a major
disservice to the student. I currently work with a 7th grader who
has failed every 6th grade class last year and is currently failing
every 7th grade class. He is not even being considered for
retainment because he hit puberty first and he looks like he's 14.
There needs to be a balance between intellectual levels and
chronological age. I'm not sure where that balance is or what is
the most important, but the system does need to change.
My second point is that of the content being taught and how it is
taught. In reality, teachers have no choice of what they teach or
really how they teach it (principal evaluations can force
teachers into a box). This then leads to overly stimulated
children being forced to sit in a desk for 5 hours a day. Small
people are not supposed to be contained to a chair. The video
makes this point by focusing on the fictional epidemic of ADHD
and the overly medicated children that fill our schools. I
completely agree with Sir Ken Robinson that the solution to
assisting kids learn is not by anesthetizing, but it will be by
engaging them in appropriate developmental
interventions/strategies. The current, completley structured,

3. underfunded, standardized test ridden schools are not helping
children. Again, I don't have the solution, but with our current
structure of education, I don't see anything changing any time
soon.
Third student's discussion,
Jamie Aubin,
Chapter 2 describes how schools are controlled like an
organization, not so much neutral as one may think Because of
the constant contact with children than other social institutions
there is expected training for these children and training for
future generations to come. The RSA video from YouTube also
sets the stage for what we are actually doing in our schools
today with or without even knowing it. It is known that a
bureaucracy is the key feature of an organization. In our schools
bureaucracy endures because of the guarantee of order,
rationality, accountability and stability it provides to the
public. Our schools as a system have goals to meet. The need
of administration makes it today completely crucial. In our text,
Max Weber’s theory of bureaucracy explains its applicable the
education system.
Bureaucracy is identified as an organization with a hierarchy of
paid, full-time officials who are formed of command. This
implies that bureaucracy in schools is concerned with mass
leadership whereby the power and authority is decentralized to
different departments. Bureaucracy is a model of organization
design based on legitimate and formal system of authority. Most
people associate bureaucracy with “red tape”, rigidity and
passing buck. Weber viewed the bureaucratic form of
organization as logical rational and efficient. You Tube video,
RSA Animate-Changing Education Paradigms by Sir Ken
Robinson gives a perspective of what I consider the “norm” in
our schools today. He illustrates how we are programed in
education rather than using divergent thinking skills and
celebrating creativity. He demonstrates where we conform our
students to meet standardized test scores.

4. I take away many thoughts after reading this week’s
assignment. I feel that America's schools face many external
challenges, particularly the breakdown of the nuclear family and
an imbedded underclass. But many public, charter, and
parochial schools succeed nonetheless these challenges. When I
think about what makes these schools successful, I realize they
have somehow, with strong leadership, they figure out how to
repress the bureaucracy and unleash the human spirit. For
example, years ago we moved our classroom toward a more
student centered learning environment but often or eventually
lead right back toward direct instruction especially during state
testing. I wonder is it our own background or the bureaucracy
setting the pace that makes us turns round and round. We must
as educators have some freedom to be ourselves. Many teachers
agree they were born to give something away to children, that
benefits our society and most likely a teacher gave us just that.
That is why were in the business. This doesn't mean we should
not be unaccountable. But we should be accountable for overall
success, including, especially, success at socialization of
students through a healthy school culture, not just objective test
scores. Schools are human institutions. The effectiveness
depends upon engaging the interest and focus of each student.
EDLR 605-Philosophy of Education
Discussion question
Please discuss your thoughts regarding the following statement
by Noddings, "several thinkers today recommend a combination
of cognitive and character approaches. Alarmed by what seems
to be a growing tendency in youth toward socially unacceptable
or harmful practices, educators are taking a new, more
appreciative look at Aristotle" (p. 13).
Due to the fact that you read Experience and Education, I
thought it would be beneficial to look at Dewey from another

5. lens.
On page 30, you will find the following paragraph. Please
discuss your thoughts regarding the paragraph.
School and Society, he described the fourfold interests of
children: making things (construction), finding out (inquiry),
expressing themselves artisitically, and communicating. Many
educators believe that these four interests can be used to create
a rich elementary school curriculum and that there is no need to
divide the day up artificially into disciplines such as English,
history, and so on. In the course of pursuing their own interests,
children can learn a great deal about the traditional disciplines
if teachers arrange appropriate experiences for them.
----------------------------------------------
First student's discussion
Jennifer Coyle,
Character education is more important in classrooms than it
ever has been before. Common traits that were being taught and
reinforced at home are not being addressed at all and it falls on
the schools to pick up that teaching- whether it is our place or
not is another story, but we do it because the skills are
important in the formation of these young students. Our
corporation adopted Character Counts several years ago- we no
longer have seperate lesson that teach the 6 traits but they are
embedded in all we do. We begin each day saying the character
counts pledge...teachers have business size cards with the traits
(responsibility, caring, citizenship, caring, fairness, respect)
and adults in the building can give those out to students if they
observe that behavior. Once a student has collected one of each
card they are "knighted". (our mascot is the Knights). Our
principal dresses up like a king, sceptor and all and knights the
students in front of the whole school for their use of good
character.We have 2nd/3rd graders and they LOVE it. Parents
come in, the newspaper, its a big deal. They also get their
picture on the wall dressed as a knight. It may seem silly but it
is amazing how students strive to get knighted (and teachers
don't hand out cards lightly, it has to be more than an ordinary

6. behavior)
The inquiry method of teaching is popular today in the
elementary school, it is a very progressive form of instructing
where the students start with a question and work towards
finding the answer. It is used most often with science or social
studies topics but is integrated into literacy instruction. I
believe the use of the four fold interests can make a rich and
effective experience for students but it cannot be used
exclusively. With the focus on standardized testing some skills
do not lend themselves as well to this approach. Students would
be engaged and actively learning which is what all teachers
want but you do have to be careful of any extremes, any
absolutes. I love to watch the teachers in my buiding integrate
subjects together. This cross-curicular instruction helps students
see the information and apply it more effectively, not just in
isolation. I prefer to teach this way, but it is difficult to
integrate all topics. Problem solving/critical thinking are two
areas our students struggle and they can be taught creatively but
sometimes math just needs to be taught as math..there are
standard to be covered and mastered. You can still use some of
the four fold interests within the subject area but it may not be
to the extent that was discussed in the chapter.
Second student's discussion
Paige Anderson,
Paige – I think you’re right in terms of Dewey’s idea of
fourfold interests. I think he wants educators to think of the
bigger picture, and not be stuck in the “we have to teach_____”
mentality. As I was thinking about this, I think one of the
projects at Rose-Hulman might further illustrate. We have a
concrete canoe competition through the Civil Engineering
department. Through this competition, students are designing a
canoe made out of concrete (construction), figuring out how to
make concrete float and why it will float (inquiry), designing
the canoe to reflect their personality (artistic expression), and
working as a team to accomplish this task (communication). So
rather than teach the students about the principles of concrete

7. and principles of floatation/physics (sorry, that’s as scientific as
I get!), they learn these principles through a more interesting
venue than a traditional lecture. These interests can then carry
over to another project, and in the case of communication, carry
over into life in general.
Third student's discussion
Jina Hackman,
I would have to agree with the modern thinkers in philosophy...
that a combination of cognitive and character education is
needed in today's era of education. Perhaps it would depend on
the particular schools or areas of schools for this to be true. I
know that in the school system where I teach, with poverty
increasing, our teachers and all staff include character education
as much as possible. Many of our students come to us with a
lack of experience in social and character education. Society
has changed and some of our children are not receiving the
proper modeling of positive character development. If parents
are not introducing and reinforcing good moral development,
than I feel it is necessary for the schools to participate in that
development as much as possible.
I'm not exactly sure that children can learn all they need to
know within the framework of the fourfold interests. The
disciplines of English, reading and math serve as such a
backbone for a child's education. I feel that thinking and
problem solving is a critical component of a child's education
and I think it is hard to teach. Teachers can certainly arrange
appropriate experiences for their students, but that doesn't mean
that their background experience and social readiness is where
it should be. Currently in my school, we are putting a strong
emphasis on teaching thinking and problem solving. It has
taken a lot of professional development for our teachers to
model their thinking and problem solving so that the students
can begin doing it more on their own.
Fourth student's discussion

8. Sarah Forbes,
I have mixed feelings about the idea of character education. On
one hand, like Aristotle, character education can be an
important part of a student’s growth. Especially given that
some situations will be first encountered in the school setting.
Take, for example, plagiarism. It is unlikely that a child would
knowingly go around trying to pass off another’s idea as his/her
own. Yes, children repeat what they hear, but they typically do
not claim authorship. In schools, especially higher levels, the
opportunity to pass off others’ ideas as one’s own increases.
Thus, even in higher education we need to teach students that
this is wrong. Not only do we need to teach that it is wrong,
but also why it is wrong, and how to avoid plagiarism in the
future (i.e., we need to educate them on the proper citation of
ideas).
On the other hand, what is the trade-off by focusing time and
attention on character education? There is so much content that
needs to be covered that adding in character education decreases
the amount of time that can be spent on other topics. At Rose-
Hulman, we spend about 45 minutes with the freshmen talking
about ethics during New Student Orientation. In spite of this
discussion, we have too many students, in my opinion, making
unethical decisions their first year. This leads me to believe
that the session is not very beneficial in preventing unethical
behaviors. What is the alternative? An entire class on ethics,
an extended session, a series of workshops? If we implement
any of these ideas, what are we taking out of the schedule to
accommodate?
I also feel, like Aristotle, that parents should begin the process
of teaching character/moral values. I realize this is an idealistic
picture, and that all too many children have parents who are
either not in a position or not willing to take responsibility for
some facets of their child’s educational experience.
As for the fourfold interests of children, I think Dewey has the
right idea in spirit, from the perspective of higher education. A
trend that is starting to receive attention is the idea of

9. competency-based degrees. That is, rather than learning
specific subjects, you learn the competencies that
interconnect/transcend the subjects. So the idea of not
“divid[ing] the day up artificially into disciplines” (p. 30) has a
lot of merit for college students. I think that higher education
also has the advantage of freedom in the classroom. That is,
they are not as bounded and can incorporate active learning
techniques, which is how I see Dewey’s ideas of construction,
inquiry, artistic expression and communication. Given what we
know about Dewey, I do not think he would advocate for
everyone to completely abandon the idea of disciplines. That
would be an either-or he warned against. I do think he is
encouraging us to think outside the box in ways that might
facilitate the learning process.