Time and time again, I get the pleasure of seeing skeptical, but open Reboot Bootcampers enter the Colorado wilderness with instructions from Jim looking for a conversation – and time and time again I see them come back in shock with how the land opened new insights up for them. Jerry included. In today’s special episode, Jerry Colonna, Jim Marsden and Jade Sherer talk about the power and opportunity of time on the land, how Jerry’s own experience on a vision quest, which was guided by Jim and Jade, and why a quest could change your own awareness forever. If it terrifies you, you are ready…

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“I went into the experience really kind of broken-open, really kind of stuck, and I came out
broken-opened and moving.”
Welcome to the Reboot Podcast.
Hi, this is Dan Putt, I am one of the partners here at Reboot. As some of you may know, we are
offering a Reboot Vision Quest this fall and so many have asked, "What exactly is a quest?" and
perhaps more importantly, "What could it do for me?" So, we wanted to take some time and
introduce you to our amazing guides, Jim and Jade, and give you answers to some of the
questions you've been holding.
But first, I actually wanted to share my own time-on-the-land experience with Jim. "So, I guess,
we are going through a transition, I started." It felt awkward; really, really awkward, but I
continued. "I'm in the middle of a move and I am still trying to figure out how to be a father to
my ten-month old." It got a tiny bit less awkward, but still, here I was, in the middle of a
beautiful, spring Colorado morning, Devil's Thumb Ranch during bootcamp week, talking to this
ugly, six foot tall, red and blue, bush in the wetlands.
I could feel the morning dew starting to work its way through my shoes, getting my toes wet as I
stepped closer and prepared my next statement, and then a Goldfinch showed up, landing on a
bush and looked right back at me as if to say, "All right, go on, I'm listening." If I hadn’t
experienced it, I'm not sure I would have believed it, but that Goldfinch conversation is one that
still moves me today in surprising and powerful ways. It opened up new insights to me, new
opportunities as a dad, and things I'm still unraveling two years later and my experience was not
unique.
Time and time again, I get the pleasure of seeing skeptical but open bootcampers enter the
Colorado wilderness with instructions from Jim, looking for a conversation with a bush or a bird,
and time and time again, I see them come back in shock with how the land opened up new
insights for them, Jerry included.
In today's episode, Jerry, Jim and Jade talk about the power and opportunity of time on the land,
and solo time. How Jerry's own experience on his quest which was guided by Jim and Jade has
shaped him, and why a quest could change your own awareness forever. If it terrifies you, you
are ready. Go apply at reboot.io/quest and enjoy this conversation with Jerry, Jim and Jade.
**
"Do you love yourself enough to listen with the ears of your heart to the other voices of yourself
speaking?" – Beno Kennedy.
Jerry Colonna: Hey Jade, hey Jim, it's really, really great to see you and you know, as we
were just saying before we started, it's been eight years since the three of us
actually spoke. But I don’t want to get too far ahead and why don’t we just take a
moment and let me ask you each to introduce yourselves so the listeners can
really get a distinct voice. So, Jim?

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Jim Marsden: Hey Jerry, Jade, great to be here, great to be with both of you again. I am Jim
Marsden and I am one of the coaches here at Reboot, and I am also someone who
heads up the organizational development, leadership and training work here at
Reboot. I have also been a guide over the last 15 years, guiding programs in the
back country and in beautiful places, different parts of the world with the
opportunity of taking people into wonderful places, both on the external landscape
and their inner landscape, and I'm excited to be able to talk about that a little bit
further with both of you today.
Jerry: Thanks Jim, and Jade?
Jade Sherer: Hi everybody and hey you guys, Jim and Jerry; it's quite a privilege to be here
with you. The constellation of the three of us because it's been eight years since
we were the three of us together in a conversation and I have been – I call it
'nature-based soul guide' for more than 20 years now and have the beautiful honor
of attending a lot of different people in the walk towards "What's our gift and
what are we doing in the world and how can we do that better?" And Jim was my
co-guide when we both got to guide Jerry eight years ago. So, it's wonderful to be
here with you, thanks for inviting me.
Jerry: Well, you know, it's a really special honor and treat for me to be with the two of
you again in this space. As Jade just mentioned, you both were my co-guides on a
vision quest that I did in 2008, and to be in relation to the two of you and for the
three of us to – even via Skype to be in a circle again is a real pleasure and honor.
You know, I'm filled with different emotions; tremendous amount of gratitude, a
tremendous amount of honoring of what we created way back when – and this is a
special edition of the podcast and take some time to talk about what that
experience was like, what that experience was like for each of us, and what your
experiences have been like, and equally important what we think might be
applicable to the people that we work with at Reboot going forward 'cause as you
know, we are planning to create our own version of a vision quest for later this
year. So, yeah, that's what the hope is for this conversation. I guess I have a
question for the two of you and I don’t know who is interviewing whom on this
episode, but I don’t really care. I guess the question I have is, what – and this is to
each of you, what is it that happens on a quest? What really happens? I mean, you
know, people have these sort of mythological or constructed views of it, you
know, you go – and in our case it was a portion that was a water-only fasting and
there was a tremendous amount of time alone, but what happens to people? You
both have been doing these things for a long time, so who'd like to go first?
Jim: I'm happy to start us off.
Jerry: Yeah.
Jim: Okay so, it's funny, as I listened to the question, there were two responses kind of
one on the level of what are some of the mechanical things that happen and it

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would be helpful for folks to maybe have some sense of that, but then there's also
what's happening at the personal experience level, and the answer to that one is,
well, magic happens.
Jade: That's what I was going to say.
Jim: That's why we have guided so much together. But, before we open up to the
magic it might be helpful just to share a little bit about some of the practical
things and what happens on a quest. There are different names for it even, a 'solo
fast' and other types of things that might be recognized by people and even the
naming of it is actually important because what we are wanting to do is emphasize
that it's an opportunity for people to come out on to the land and to have an
experience that meets them where they are. Sometimes the terms 'vision quest' can
evoke ideas of what it might have been to a more indigenous person, being taken
out by their elders out on to the land, and while there may be a lot of similarities,
there are some important differences and we don’t want the idea of vision quest to
be overlapping with some of the more indigenous cultures. We want people to
really acknowledge that this is an opportunity for people show up as they are, be
whatever they need to be, and coming to meet themselves at this point in their life
and to be able to go a little bit more deeply into it. Then in terms of the structural
layout, there are some things where the first couple of days of the quest itself is
intended to help people, support people looking at what's actually coming to an
end in their life. The period of severance and letting go, and the guides are there
to just offer up some time and space and some ways in which they can go and do
that, and explore those questions in ways that include the mind, but are going
beyond the mind that open up to their own curiosities and their own bodies to
really see what's here to let go off at this time in my life, and so severance is an
important first part. And also during those early days, there's the invitation to start
considering how they might spend their time out on the solo and during this quest
will be the opportunity to spend a couple of days in solo and preceded by a day of
fasting, which is also an invitation, it's not mandatory, it's an invitation for a
couple of days of solo following that, also continuing to fast and then coming off
the solo experience to take a look at what has – what's been evoked, what happens
during the solo time and what kinds of insights or questions are now coming to
life and how might those actually inform the life ahead. And the last part of our
physical time together is to look at how we might connect with the inspiration or
the insights that have come from the whole experience and turn the attention
towards 'How do I live those into my life going forward from our time together?'
It's kind of a quick overview of some of the structural underpinnings for the
journey itself, but maybe how about I stop there and Jade if you want to share a
little bit more about the magic or anything else you'd like?
Jerry: Yeah, I think that would be great. Jade?
Jade: Yeah, you know I was reflecting as I was listening to you on the fact that we both
said that magic happens there, because it's interesting to me that it appears as

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magic to us, when in some ways, what I believe is really happening is that we get
to have the experience of coming back to our true humanity as beings that are
connected with earth, connected with stars, connected to our bodies, that we are
able to communicate with on some level, the other beings that are out there and
maybe catch a glimpse of who we really are in the mirror of wild nature. And in
today's world, as we go faster and faster, it feels to me like the world is speeding
up, at least the humans are speeding up, and we have become a bit separated from
nature that in this opportunity to actually stop our lives to reflect on our lives, to
sort of, reconsider what's important for ourselves. It's interesting to me that that
now is considered magic, when, once upon a time that was everything that guided
us. So, it's very beautiful to watch what happens when people simply stop and are
in the company of wild nature and get to breathe in a bit more of their own
essence and then with the help of guides and the mirror of other humans,
understand more about how to bring that out into the world. So, for every person
it looks different and for some people, they might say, "That was the most healing
thing I could possibly do." Some people come out with a very clear vision of
something that they want to bring into the world. Some people come out with
having a mysterious experience that is a little harder to understand, but out of that
grows a vision. So it's been a real privilege to see the way in which this time out
in nature actually affects people in their lives. Always something happens. Some
people have a fear that nothing will happen, but always something happens.
Jerry: You know hearing you both speak about it helps me remember the experience for
myself and Jade, you asked the question about the work that I'm doing; before we
started recording you asked a question about the work that I am doing in the
world now, and you know, I think I said something to effect of, you know, I went
into the experience really kind of broken-open, kind of stuck, and I came out
broken-opened and moving. And thinking back to that time, I know we each have
different memories of that particular quest and I imagine after all these years, you
have had so many different memories and so many different experiences, but I'll
share with you, in particular Jade, a memory, and that is, it was after the solo
time, and we had come back to the lodge, and we were doing some reintegration
work and we had all sort of begun – whatever means possible getting messages
from home. And I got a message that my then father-in-law, was very sick and I
immediately went into the fix-it mode that is so much a part of my
characterological pattern, and I began making immediate plans to leave the
experience early. And if memory serves me right, Jade grabbed me, my face by
both sides of my ears, and actually you called something out of me on the quest;
I'm allowed to share the name that I received, aren’t I?
Jade: Yeah.
Jim: It's up to you.
Jerry: So the name I received on the quest, and if you think about what I do for a living
now, it really resonates, "holder of stories of the heart." And you grabbed my face

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Jade, I'm gonna cry, and you said to me, "What does 'holder' really mean? Who is
holder? Who is holder? Does holder fix or does holder hold?" And that was a hard
motion for me because jumping in and fixing is still something I work with, but to
this day, I still see your face staring into my face, asking me that very profound,
very humane, very human question, "Who is holder? Does holder fix or does
holder hold?" And you know, it's hard to find moments in your life that just click,
change everything, and that I can trace so much of who I am today, the man I am
today, to not even the solo time, but to that moment. And I don’t think I have ever
shared that experience with you, but I did want to say thank you to both of you for
that.
Jade: Thank you so much for sharing that 'cause I think that may have been the time
that I was remembering that I referred to prior to starting here, and one of the
questions I was holding for you, Jerry, was – you may have just said the answer
to, but it was something like, what was the most pivotal moment for you? Or was
there a moment that actually something shifted from maybe the rearview to the
forward view and I don’t know, would you say that that was A or the most pivotal
moment for you?
Jerry: There were a few moments that stand out in stark contrast. It was – there was that,
which was really important and what that moment felt like was that it had taken
the previous two weeks of work and kind of seared it into my body and it was a
powerful moment. But there was another moment and it was the second day of the
fast, the second day of the solo, and I was in a lot of pain. I didn’t have my
journal, I wasn’t meditating, I didn’t have a book, it was just me and a few little
stuff, some shelter to keep myself, really more than anything, out of the sun,
plenty of water, and I remember crying so much and digging a hole in the sand
and just crying into that hole and really in a sense, vomiting up all of the pain that
I had experienced as a kid. And I have often said, I did it into the earth because I
don’t think anything else was large enough to hold it.
Jim: Yeah.
Jerry: So for me, it wasn’t just singular moments as much as it was a series of these
snapshot moments, the moment where I first heard my name, the moment where
you know, I'm half-naked with my head buried in the sand, you know the moment
of coming back to myself, to my truest self, not the self that was assigned to me
prematurely as a boy, "Here, you go take care of everybody." I don’t know, was
that the kind of –
Jade: Yeah, beautiful; you are bringing me right back into not your moments, but the
moments that are always so poignant in the stories that I hear and how things
began to take a different shape in our lives.
Jim: I know for me, the part that is coming alive as you are sharing that is recognizing
experiences where we can have those moments that you know something really

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important is shifting, and yet you may not know what it all means at that point in
time, and you may not know what it is by the time you leave, you know, being out
on the land together. But just having the opening can work its way and there can
be really significant, and there has been significant times that have passed
between having been out on the land, exploring the depths, having those
experiences and then coming to realize sometime later in life, wow, now I
remember that happening and now here's how it's really coming alive for me in
this way at this time. It's unpredictable, and I think it's important to kind of notice
that as I think about folks who may be listening and may have some curiosity or
interest in going out on an experience like this, wanting to have a singular
experience that can change everything and open everything up with clarity. And
sometimes that can happen back at what Jade had mentioned just in the
introduction, there's the twin fears that we talk about where, heading into this, we
can have the fear that nothing is going to happen and I'll go out and I'll come back
and nothing would have changed, and of course, the other fear is the flip side of
the same coin which is, something is going to happen and it's going to change
everything and am I really up and open for that? We don’t know, we can't know
and at the same time, we know that you can't not have an experience. So, part of
the magic is to be able to explore these places and undergo and go through these
experiences knowing that there is a shift that is taking place inside of me and then
the importance in being able to tend to that after our time, that it's not just
[Inaudible 0:22:50] program is over and off I go. It's shifts everything.
Jade: Yeah, I just have to say Jim, that I loved that you just brought that up, "Oh, the
program is over, now we're gonna go" and I think what I see as really important
for people that would ever consider entering such a thing that it's actually not a
program.
Jim: Yeah.
Jade: It's actually an ancient art, I like to think of it as, it's a ceremony. I mean, this is
pan-cultural, it's been going on in every culture, probably every religion since the
beginning of man really, and so as we go along and we – it seems like as we grow
older, we head into business and so on, and the likelihood that we start to separate
ourselves from nature and from our own nature is high and so this art, reviving
this art and inviting people of all ages and all places in their lives to return is
really pivotal for most people. And you are right, you don’t always know how to
perceive but, often, almost every time, I would have to say there is a seed that
later will sprout if you give it water.
Jim: Yeah.
Jerry: I think that 'giving it water' analogy makes a ton of sense for me. One of the
things that I had to come to learn about being in therapy for example, or even now
as a coach and coaching other people and even going through this period of
exploration in my life, and my quest came about during a very profound period of

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about four to ten years of really deep, transformational work. The myth, and I
think it comes from Hollywood is that there is going to be a singular epiphany
moment, where everything clicks into place, everything is wrapped up before the
commercial break, it's 22 minutes, your life is done, boom! And I think that if you
can let go of that expectation, these types of experiences, these types of journeys
become part of a larger arc, if you will, of transformation. If I had tried to do that
quest with the two of you when I first left JPMorgan, it would have been a very
different experience; I don’t even know that I could have. I had to have gone
through other experiences in some ways to prepare myself. Moreover, if I had just
stopped after that experience and not allowed myself to continue to open, then I
would not be the man I am today. Does this resonate with the two of you?
Jim: Yeah, totally, yeah.
Jade: Can you say, Jerry, do you remember what it was that actually nudged you
towards 'now is the time, now I'm ready to step towards this ceremony of a vision
fast'?
Jerry: Yeah, I mean there were a series of things that sort of came together; one was –
and I probably told you of the story of my trip to Greenland in 2007, so the year
before, and you know I'd always wanted to explore some more adventurous side
of myself, and so I signed up to go on a first journey, crossing this unexplored
isthmus on the eastern coast of Greenland, and I ended up falling in the crevice
and laying at the bottom of that for two hours, and having to be rescued and
pulled out of that. And a few weeks later, because I was something of an
experience junkie in those days, I was on a Soulcraft program with Animas Valley
Institute with Bill Plotkin, and Rebecca Wildbear and it was in conversation with
Rebecca where she asked something like, "Why was it that the earth swallowed
you up?" which was completely different view of my falling in a crevice. And that
question opened me in some really powerful ways; you know, it was like, the
earth seems to be wanting to get your attention in a very dramatic way, grabbing
hold of me, and so in some ways it was that experience which then said, "I need to
explore this a little bit further" and that's what led me to make the decision to sign
up for the next experience. So, for me, it was very much part of an arc of time,
you know, you can almost trace – and I remember deciding to go on the Soulcraft
retreat because for my coaching class, we were assigned Soulcraft as our book,
one of our books.
Jim: That's great.
Jade: I love what Rebecca did with her question for you, and at the same time, I feel
there is a similar answer that we often hear is that people fall into some kind of
crevice in their life that they can't get out of and they are looking for something
else, or some kind of inspiration, or some kind of knowing who they are. So, I
love that story, I do kind of remember it now and I'm happy that I've heard it
again.

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Jim: I think that idea of falling into the crevice, and what you just shared there Jade,
too, I think speaking in terms of the listeners as well, people may feel something
that is compelling towards this kind of exploration and this kind of journey and
what we'd recommend is that you stay close to that compelling tension or force or
discomfort or whatever it is and as it shows up that it's quite different from
something that might be inside that's more coming from strategic place where we
try to think it through, or come to an answer, or just try to apply it and tell and
what we have already known how to do to try to get there. For those folks who
have already tried that and are still finding a longing still bubbling inside of them,
we'd love to talk to them.
Jerry: Yeah. And I would add, for those folks who are listening to this and are thinking
about it, and then hearing a contrary voice that pops up that says, "No, you know,
you can't do this" or whatever, I recall something Bill Plotkin once said, that I
heard him say, which was, "When your heart starts beating really fast as you
contemplate doing something, that's probably a call to do it anyway" 'cause that
means that you are right at that edge and the other side of that edge, no one can
tell you for sure what it is, but I can only speak from my experience, the other
side of that edge has been glorious, and it was scary as all hell, jumping over that
crevice.
Jim: Yeah.
Jade: It seems that the fear that comes with the decision to do such a thing and then
walking towards the actual event, the fear that is there is actually a vital part of,
sort of, unnamable transformation that happens for people, and it makes me think
actually of your adventure in Greenland, great adventure, and I'm sure you had
fear there and fear seems to be just integral in our transitions and our
transformations. And so feeling fear doesn’t mean "I'm not gonna ever do that" it
actually might be a beckoning and this is something to consider again.
Jerry: I think fear and a little bit of discomfort; I just flashed on the first night that we set
up camp in Greenland, and we were getting into our sleeping bags and the sun
was just beginning to set, it was about 10:30 at night and I watched the
thermometer hanging from the inside of the tent drop from 20-above to 50-below.
And fortunately, we are not putting anybody through that.
Jim: Right, yeah.
Jerry: But there is something raw and powerful about stripping away all the things that
give us comfort; here's your Starbucks coffee and you know, let me have
postmates deliver lunch to my desk so I don’t actually even have to move my
body, and you know, all of these things that we live our modern lives around, and
getting down to the sort of raw essence and then from that place, watching your
heart beat fast.

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Jim: Yeah, and staying open to what's alive around you. This is where the land can be
so amazing; just there as the presence of another guide, supporting us in ways we
can't anticipate. So, I think the stripping away and even the idea of the fast itself is
helping us to slow into and breathe into our natural rhythms so we actually are
more tuned to see and sense what is actually here already. And that is just
beautiful to witness and be a part of.
Jade: I think there's something in our natural – our human nature that actually thrives on
a kind of risk, particularly the nature-based kind of risk and maybe it's been
altered a little bit into some kind of risk-taking in the business world, but there is
something that brings us alive when we are actually confronted with our own
bodies, and the earth and the animals, and all that's there. It's very enlivening and
I love seeing people come awaken that way, you know, 'cause we have guided so
many people who have come to us from big cities and say "I've never spent a
night alone, I have never slept on the earth, I have never, you know, spent the day
alone wandering" and they come so courageously and head out there and their
whole perspective on life seems to shift because they've had this brand new
experience and something wakes up to them that is undefinable really.
Jerry: I remember, it was actually in the Soulcraft Retreat we did the – we spent the
night without any shelter outside, and that was a first time for me and to wake up
at midnight and feel the dark and see the stars in a completely different way, and
then to slowly have your eyes adjust to the point where you are actually can see
and all of a sudden your relationship with that world starts to shift. It's very, very
powerful.
Jade: I love that you brought the stars in because there is – in the etymology of the word
'Consider' means to be with the stars or the constellation. So there is something
historical that says, we learn something about who we are and our lives, we
reflect, we consider and something about being out there with stars actually is in
our history, you know, the access to see that again so that's beautiful 'cause I think
that even time-out for reflection is rare these days. In working with some of the
business people of the world that I have worked with, I had a man from Africa
say, "I've never spent a day alone just with my own thoughts." And I was like,
"Wow." I think we are really hungry for that even if we don’t know it.
Jerry: Yeah.
Jim: And this is where I feel like it's – as we talked about risk earlier, and fear, it's that
mix of terrifying and alluring, and where the heart's beating is I also think of it as
the sweaty palm test, my palms are sweating, it's like, oh man, now I've become
aware of something that I can't say no to, but I don’t know how I'm gonna make it
or what I'm really even saying yes to.

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Jerry: Yeah. You know, I'm feeling that now 'cause you know, this is not the normal
coaching company thing to do; and just like – just as we've done since we really
launched this company, we have always tried to bring a dose of magic into what
we are doing. Khalid, my partner likes to say, "We smuggle in consciousness" and
to me, does a vision quest lead to greater leadership? I don’t know, but I'll tell you
this it will lead to more resilient human beings, more human human beings and I
happen to believe that more human human beings make better leaders.
Jim: I agree.
Jade: Beautiful.
Jim: And I also think those people are sending out healthy ripples into the relationship
that they are already a part of, whether it's the organization, the company or the
family.
Jerry: Exactly. You know, as I often say, you know, to a client, the reason we go into
what I refer to as a radical self-enquiry work, the reason we go into our own self,
it may help us, but equally important is when you go home at night, how are you
with your spouse and with your children? How are you with your parents? How
are you with your intended, with the people in your life who matter most to you?
Are you carrying that stress, the sense of inadequacy, the sense of an imposter
syndrome? Are you carrying that forward in a kind of a violent way, a subtly,
emotionally, verbally violent way, or are you letting that go and being more fully
present for everybody in your life? Because if it's the latter, then the work you do
in this way benefits everybody in your circle.
Jim: Yeah.
Jerry: Well, I want to thank you both for this and any parting words before we sign off?
Jade: I just have to add to what you just said, which was such a beautiful statement, but
I would just want to extend that to the way that we then affect the natural world,
the earth and all her beings that are not human, that so need us to be non-violent
and kind and in relationship with them. So we see that these kind of work, the
work that you have done so much of, Jerry, and that we've done and been with
people, it ripples out and it actually affects the planet, and I believe, beyond that.
Jim: Yeah.
Jerry: And generations to come.
Jim: Yeah.
Jerry: Exactly; both directions ancestors and generations to come.

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Jerry: Anything further Jim?
Jim: No, I'm just – this conversation has helped me to reconnect with so many different
people now who have gone through these kind of experiences and I'm just feeling
gratitude for their having stepped into their lives more fully to go through this and
I feel really lucky to be a part of that. Great to be with both of you, thank you.
Jerry: I will speak from experience that those who attend our quest are going to consider
themselves very lucky and fortunate indeed to have the two of you as their guides.
It's really beautiful. So, thank you so much for taking the time and I really
appreciate hearing from both of you. Be well.
Jim: Thank you.
Jade: Thank you.
**
So, that’s it for our conversation today. You know, a lot was covered in this episode from links,
to books, to quotes, to images; so we went ahead and compiled all that, and put it on our site at
Reboot.io/podcast. If you’d like to be a guest on the show, you can find out about that on our site
as well. I’m really grateful that you took the time to listen. If you enjoyed the show and you want
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you’re there, it would be great if you could leave us a review letting us know how the show
affected you. So, thank you again for listening, and I really look forward to future conversations
together.
[Singing]
“How long till my soul gets it right?
Did any human being ever reach that kind of light?
I call on the resting soul of Galileo,
King of night-vision, King of insight.”
[End of audio 0:42:06]
[End of transcript]