A Mexican scientist discusses his background in biology and palaeontology. He became interested in computer science through secondary school classes and seeing his father work as a programmer. As a palaeontologist, he applies computer science concepts like data science and artificial intelligence to digitize fossils. He emphasizes embracing frustration when learning and believes communication and listening are important for diversity in universities.

1. A Department for Education project, part of theNational Centre
for Computing Educationand created by the University of
Cambridge and the Raspberry Pi Foundation.

2. Omar Rafael Regalado
Part of the vertebral spine from a dinosaur
that was discovered in 1920.
https://isaaccomputerscience.org/pages/omar_rafael_regalado

3. Please introduce yourself to our audience.
Hello I am Omar, a Mexican scientist. I studied biology when I was at university back in Mexico. During the course, we had several modules that were
computer-based and when deciding what to do for my minor I was torn between molecular biology or fieldwork-based biology. I found that I really liked the
computer aspect of molecular biology, as I felt laboratory work was somewhat disconnected from living things.
Ultimately I decided to go down the route of palaeontology. When I went to do my PhD, I was working with Professor Upchurch [from] University College
London and his focus was on computer-based palaeontology. I found that it was a good mixture of the things that I really liked between biology and maths.
How did you get into computer science?
I studied at a unique secondary school where they focused a lot on teaching English and computer science. We had computing classes through all years in
school and when we started with programming, I thought it was very cool.
My father is a programmer and I could see why he enjoyed it so much. My uncle was also into computers so I was always aware of the existence of
computers, but also of how quick they changed. I really like that, because it felt like you would always be learning things. For example, I remember going from
Windows 95, to Windows XP, to Windows Vista, and it was like very drastic changes every time. This intrigued me; as someone who loves to learn, that felt
very unique.
I could see my father always looking for what is new so it’s not like you can get to a point where you reach mastery; you keep just working on it and that
sounded very cool.
It took me a while to realise that I was actually a computer scientist until I understood what a computer scientist does.
What was your experience like at school? Did you feel encouraged to study STEM subjects?
Yes and no. One of the problems with STEM subjects in countries like Mexico is that, when I was growing up, science was something only rich people did
because you have a secure financial network underneath you.
I remember when my parents asked, “What do you want to do when you grow up?”, my response was always that I wanted to be a scientist, but there was an
expectation that I should focus on applied sciences where you can get a secure job. Through most of high school I was interested in doing things like
biotechnology or chemistry, although I wasn’t interested in applied science. I was interested in discovering new things and doing research. One of the problems
is that my parents didn't know any researchers in their circle of friends or the researchers they had seen on TV were always old white men, all of them rich. So
it was like, obviously you don't fit in there.
When I was in university, I decided I wanted to go down the research route. I always felt like my curiosity pushed me to do it and I wanted to be part of the
future of STEM in creating different kinds of role models.

4. What does a day as a palaeontologist look like for you?
I am very interested in the concept of data integrity. It is quite new and I want to know how we build a solid data set. Where I am working now in
Germany, I have all of these fossils which I study, like this one. It is part of the vertebral spine from a dinosaur that was discovered in 1920.
Something that people forget about these objects is that you can always get new data as our collection techniques have improved since it was found.
These collections are valuable archives because you can see what other people have collected and look at it with new eyes. I'm very interested in the
kind of things that we can do with what we have already collected, instead of going into fieldwork and getting more fossils. I'm interested in knowing
what to do with the fossils we already have.
There are two aspects to what I do. The first is the quantitative aspect, which is to measure it. We use a CT scanner to get an image of what's inside.
That way you can see the inside structure of the fossil without destroying it. We measure it and then we try to do comparative analysis.
Then there is the qualitative aspect. This is based on the idea that if you were able to find, say, 15 characteristics in this bone that make me say it
belongs to a specific animal. Then I take two other bones and I find 15 characteristics that match the first bone. I can input this into a computer and
the computer will calculate the likelihood that this vertebra is more related to one or the other.
The computer can kind of reconstruct what the common ancestor would look like. What I am interested in is in how we tell the computer this is a
vertebra and how do I transform the shape of these vertebra into 0s and 1s that the computer can process. In that way, the computer can reconstruct
the story of the objects. It's kind of like digitising dinosaurs in a different way.
How do you apply computer science in your current role?
I try to bring aspects that are very well developed in computer science and apply them in palaeontology. For instance, when digitising the vertebrae I
use a lot of information theory. I also use a lot of data science and integrity to make sure that what we have captured is comparable with what other
people have found.
I'm also interested in artificial intelligence right now. Most people think of computers as a black box where you put data into the computer and it gives
you an output. Scientists often don’t really think about what's going on inside the computer. It's important to be sure the computer knows what you are
asking of it. I had a computer teacher in high school who said that 90% of the time the error is in the interface between the chair and the keyboard.
That stuck with me. It's not the computer making the mistakes, it’s the user.
https://isaaccomputerscience.org/pages/omar_rafael_regalado

5. What would you like to see changed in how universities support students?
Things are obviously different between Mexico and the UK, but there are certain things that are very common. I would like institutions to put more effort on science
communication with people who are not students in their university. For instance, what Isaac Computer Science is doing with these interviews and the platform is just
that, as it helps give people who aren’t in the industry an insight into it. Communication in this way will help build a society that is more scientifically literate.
Secondly, a common thing I noticed is that computer science or programming is often advertised as something amateur or something to be done in your spare time,
rather than being shown as a great career option.
Lastly, I would like to see scientists being more communicative with their communities. To go back to the communities they came from or to other communities that are
similar and be like, “This is what I've done. I'm a scientist. I came from here. You could do this too.”
What steps can workspaces and universities take to create safe and inclusive spaces for everyone?
I think universities should be more open to listen[ing]. I feel like most of the time universities want to have a one-size-fits-all solution and assume that because multiple
universities implement these policies, they may work in theirs. However, that isn’t true as each university has its own diversity makeup and you cannot expect one
solution to work everywhere.
Most of the time issues stem from not asking their community where their needs are. It needs to be a very bottom-up approach. Asking “What are the problems?” and
“How do you think we can solve them?”. It also means including the people who stated the difference in the decision-making process. So if it is something affecting
women in science, make sure they are on the board to help answer it. Otherwise you won’t be fixing it. It's also about reviewing the policies that are in place and making
sure they aren't outdated and if they are, working to bring them up to date.
What achievement are you most proud of so far?
That is a very tough question, however what I'm most proud of is when I was looking for PhD options, I started looking at the advertised PhDs and I never found
anything I really liked. One day somebody suggested approaching researchers directly and asking if they could support me in a PhD on a topic of my choosing.
I remember that I wrote 12 emails to researchers and I got 8 rejections straight away. But the ninth reply was from my now supervisor and he said, “Well, I am currently
not advertising for PhDs. I have no funding, but if you can find funding from Mexico, you could do this project.”
I think that is good advice to anyone out there thinking of doing a PhD, as sometimes we just stick to what the procedure says. By thinking outside the box I was able to
do what I wanted. Also, most of the time researchers are very happy to accept students who approach them and show interest in their field of science.
It’s due to this way of working that I was able to do my postdoc as well, because I approached a researcher and said “I know you are not advertising for postdocs. What
you do is very cool. How can we make it work?” and from there we worked it out. Instead of just waiting for the right funding to come, I am the one looking for funding for
these projects and ideas. I am definitely proud of that.
https://isaaccomputerscience.org/pages/omar_rafael_regalado

6. What is it about computer science/STEM subjects that make you feel like you belong?
The one thing that made me realise I belong here is how receptive the people I have gotten to work with are to new ideas and ways to do things.
The way science is taught in school is there is a right answer for everything and a right way to do things. However when you move on to the actual research
aspect you realise that isn’t always how things work. It’s probably one of the reasons why the field is so interdisciplinary, because you have medical students
who come and study the movement of extinct animals, you have chemists who want to know how fossils are made and what information can be lost over time,
and you have historians who are interested in the history [of] palaeontology.
Circling back to what I said earlier about what drove me to computers was the fact you are always learning, that's what keeps me interested in science that I
can keep growing, learn from others, and I can teach people.
That's the other thing that makes me feel like I belong, which is when I am able to communicate the things I know to someone else and I can see the face of the
other person when they start to grasp a theory.
It's such an amazing feeling that you are able to communicate something complex with someone else and you can see this person realising that they got it. I
feel like that's one of the reasons I belong here, even despite the barriers.
Lastly, do you have any advice you would like to give to students who want to go into computer science?
The advice I gave to my A level students last year was to embrace the frustration of learning.
Sometimes we, as teachers, fail to communicate with students how difficult learning is. Learning anything, like a new language or how to cook, is very difficult
and embracing the frustration of learning means whenever you want to do something, take your time to learn and don’t just try and jump into making something.
Learning is difficult because when you learn you acknowledge you don't know something. People don't like that feeling because it's uncomfortable. It happened
to me very recently when I moved to Germany. I had that frustration when learning a new language and you sound like a child because you're learning to use
language and you want to speak it like a local, but that is not going to happen.
You have to sound like a child and people are going to find your expressions funny. That's how you learn and you make mistakes and you're going to hate it, but
that's how you get better. If you don't make mistakes and people don't correct you, you don't get better.
Particularly in science, we are probably too obsessed with positive results. But 70% of our work goes in things that don’t work out. Even when you're coding a
new programme, most of your days are going to be spent trying to find that one comma that doesn't allow it [the program] to be read.
If you don’t embrace the frustration and say “I'm going to stick to what I know” that is dangerous in the end. Because as a scientist, you need to be flexible and
open to learn, and open to make mistakes and open to sounding silly. Because maybe what you just said doesn't make sense, but that's the only way to know it.