F*ck off kanye

Dragan Maricic
the man is responsible for being an innovator in
crafting modern music. not just hip hop... MUSIC
February 10 at 10:46am · Edited · Unlike · 11
Carey Costa
February 10 at 10:51am · Like · 5
Carey Costa
Kyle Kim
An innovator in crafting modern music... hmmmm...
Kyle Kim
February 10 at 10:42am · Toronto
Fuck off Kanye. You’re an arrogant piece of shit.
Fans, don’t even try to argue; you know you’re
wrong. I could not be happier that Beck won that
award. “Morning Phase” is a beautiful piece of
work; you should go listen to it. Stop embarassing
Beyonce, you’re just bringing her musical integrity
down along with your own.. if you even had any to
begin with.
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Dragan Maricic
you mean to question the musical integrity of kanye
west...
February 10 at 10:45am · Unlike · 8
Dragan Maricic
that is fucking insane

Dragan Maricic
music is subjective and the grammys can’t get their
shit right and never will because you can’t give an
award to something that is subjective.
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira Kanye is not a rapper not after yeszus
but Kanye is less inspiring than Joey badass, Earl
sweatshirt, Vince staples and the list goes on,
kanye produced something for the mass and spreads
a shit message how you can be lyrical and go to
trash.. Might as well be young thug
Dragan Maricic
kanye is a producer, not a rapper.
February 10 at 11:30am · Like
Dragan Maricic
he raps, but he is not a rapper. he is a bigger,
badder, more intense version of dr. dre.
shit, that must be why the mainstream music indus-
try has been downward spiralling lately.
Kyle Kim
There is no musical integrity with people like
Kanye around... you gotta dig for that shit these
days. Thats why musicians like Beck earned his
place. Not because of popularity and stardom.
Jeremy N.
Um, Kanye is pretty sick. Hate on him for his arro-
gance, but he is definitely a musical innovator. I’m
cool with beck winning, but he won for political
reasons (no vote splitting in his genre) instead of
for musical reasons.
Dragan Maricic
none of this shit makes any sense....

maybe less than mediocre...
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira This is a fact
Dragan Maricic
no it’s not
Peter Li
yo but respects to ye 4 putting paul mccartney in
the scene!!
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira Kanye has proven time and time again he
is a dumbass with some musical hope at best
Dragan Maricic
you saying it’s fact makes you an elitist...
Todd Gooner D’Oliveira
Lol if you call what he says rapping, it’s not. He
doesn’t rap and he does produce good beats here and
there, but he’s not like jdilla or mf doom. Not
even close to their level
Jimbo Hawdon
fkn narcissistic sob.
Dragan Maricic
he’s on his own level, as are doom and dilla
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira Yeah his own mediocre level haha
Dragan Maricic
your opinion.
Jimbo Hawdon

asshole to his friends but is still a saint for his
work.
Dragan Maricic
roger waters, control freak and egotistical prick.
yet he created the wall.
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira I still don’t think kanye will ever be
better. Whether he is popular or not is irrelevant
Kyle Kim
That doesnt justify Kanye at all
Dragan Maricic
i’m not speaking in terms of popularity.
Dragan Maricic
i’m speaking in terms of respecting someones work
Jimbo Hawdon
I can’t slam his music cause I don’t give a shit
about him enough to care about listening to it -
but for those who do - how can you respect a per-
son (be a fan or otherwise like someone) who is an
a-whole regardless of how good or bad their music
is a dick is a dick no matter what that is a fact.
Dragan Maricic
because history has shown that some of the greatest
music ever was made by assholes. axl rose is a hor-
rible human being, so is morrissey.
Dragan Maricic
and yet these dudes will always have people prais-
ing their work.
Dragan Maricic
same as john lennon, he beat his wife and was an

Dragan Maricic
what you said right now is beyond offensive to me
and musicians everywhere... sorry kyle but i cannot
condone what your saying.
Jimbo Hawdon
So then don’t condone it...
Kyle Kim
Exactly
Dragan Maricic
production is an art just like playing any instru-
ment, you don’t have a magic button you press that
pops out an entire song just like that
Jimbo Hawdon
Just like Kanye should have done, swallow your
even if they aren’t ideal people.
Jimbo Hawdon
Point is, Kanye saying Beyonce deserves the award
and Beck should give it to her is him (yes Kanye)
being elitist... Dragan Maricic Kanye doesn’t get
to decide who wins, hes a contender.
Dragan Maricic
yeah but who decides? notice how we’re arguing
about who got an award neither of us had any influ-
ence in making the decision about?
Kyle Kim
Kanye takes pride in the fact that he can take ad-
vantage of the popularity contest that music has
turned into. I never cared that he can produce, an-
yone can turn on the computer, flick a few switches
and knobs to make shit sound good. Man needs auto-
tune to be able to sing

are real musicians. Kanye doesnt have the least bit
of musical talent, ability, or integrity. He’s just
a manipulator
Sean Ugh
the grammys has become an entertainment event over
the years, and i dont think anyone would argue that
kanye rushing the stage isnt entertaining..
Kyle Kim
And now we’re on the subject of music. Sure, you
can use the computer to MAKE music essentially, but
it has absolutely nothing to do with music itself
Kyle Kim
You just proved my point basically. He uses TECH-
NOLOGY to create. Not musicianship
Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira Well obviously kanye has no ears appar-
words and move on. His behaviour isn’t earned
through how well he creates sounds
February 10 at 11:54am · Edited · Like · 1
Kyle Kim
Its an art thats entirely outside the realm of mu-
sic
Dragan Maricic
you’re basically orchestrating an entire piece on
your own with technology. you need an ear and deep
understanding of music in order to produce.
Dragan Maricic
it’s not if you actually MAKE MUSIC.
Kyle Kim
The argument here is that history claims assholes
like axl rose, john lennon etc. Are capable of
great innovations of music, but thats because they

ples and u have to know a fuckload about playing
the piano to make something good
February 10 at 12:00pm · Like · 2
Evan Spicer
Thing that boiled my water is that Kanye, in a
back-handed way, doesn’t even consider Beck a real
artist...: “Beck needs to respect artistry and he
should have given his award to Beyoncé,” I’m sorry,
but like him or not, Kanye’s credibility and re-
spect went way down after that.
Jimbo Hawdon
so basically if you know how to type on a keyboard
you can play any instrument and better than anyone
else and if you do it successfully (in kanyes case)
it justifies that you can be a dick and interrupt
people while accepting awards...
February 10 at 12:01pm · Like
Sean Ugh
i didnt say that did i? i said that producing music
ently
Dragan Maricic
guy... do you even realize what you’re saying?
Sean Ugh
arguing with someone who doesnt have respect for
music created on the computer is akin to banging
your head against the wall over and over again
Dragan Maricic
thank you
Sean Ugh
i play bass n guitar and have for upwards of 7
years now and the initial experience of learning
how to play a physical instrument is easier than
learning how to play ur computer/ you do know that
all music produced on a computer is made from sam-

Evan Spicer
And the Grammy’s (and most, if not all award shows)
are subjective like what Dragan said, but that
doesn’t give Kanye the right to go around and slap
Beck around like that. They’re both artists in very
different ways, respect should be given where and
when it’s due
Kyle Kim
Its difficult, and there’s a learning curve, I’ll
admit that. But anybody with no musical skill can
eventually pick that up. Some people might never be
able to play an instrument just because they cant
even grasp the concept of a key
Evan Spicer
And yeah, Beck was chill about it all. But Kanye
keeps acting like a child with stuff like this,
let’s be real
on a computer is a lot harder than OP is making it
sound
Dragan Maricic
jimbo and kyle, download reason or pro tools and
make something. TRY and make something good and
tell me it isn’t difficult to do.
Kyle Kim
Thank you Evan Spicer. That statement alone can de-
scribe the “musical integrity” of the great kanye
Sean Ugh
nobody uses a fucking qwerty keyboard to r u fuck-
ing retarded.... they use midi controls and midi
keyboards (aka an electric keyboard)
Dragan Maricic
read what beck said in response and eat your words

you will
Dragan Maricic
it doesn’t say anything about you as an artist, it
says a lot about who you are as a person.
Dragan Maricic
define that
Jimbo Hawdon
it’s not about skill it’s about Kanye being an
elitist (like we said before, whether their music
is good or bad...)
Evan Spicer
I can still respect Kanye though (much less atm,
personally), Kanye just needs to get his ego a lit-
tle in check in my opinion
Dragan Maricic
define musical skill to me.
Dragan Maricic
please
Kyle Kim
Thats what ive been trying to say in the first place
Evan Spicer. If you cant even respect your fellow
musicians, what does that say about you as an art-
ist
Dragan Maricic
what does it say about you as a person, not an art-
ist
Kyle Kim
Alright, i stand corrected. Musicianship, if

anything to do with it.
Sheel Radia
this is fun
Kyle Kim
Yeah i agree hahaha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFl5kN3zJNA
Kanye West almost gets into a Fight with Sway -
Full Video
YOUTUBE.COM
Dragan Maricic
musicianship, what is musicianship?
Dragan Maricic
is that the definition?
Kyle Kim
Kanye doesnt have any of that. He manipulates peo-
ple using technology
Jimbo Hawdon
it’s not about him as an artist though...
Kyle Kim
You dont need to have musicianship to do that. Mu-
sicianship is about sticking true to the roots of
creating music in its raw form and having the in-
tegrity to stay true to that. Technology never had

Jimbo Hawdon
Nobody likes people with a chip on their shoulder,
and if you do, well you must have that in common.
and what ^^ said. Let your music speak for you,
don’t go opening your mouth and ruin what was al-
ready had (he had it pretty good until the taylor
swift incident)
Jimbo Hawdon
Confidence > Arrogance
Sheel Radia
but thats just it, its his own opinion. i know what
he said was not a nice move at all. but whatever.
and his music really does do the talking. its
freaking unbelievable.
Sheel Radia
love kanye though. praise yeezus. he had an opin-
ion. and he said it. why do people care so much?
because he goes on and on, for once just shut your
mouth kanye.
Jimbo Hawdon
it’s the fact that Kanye puts himself above every-
one else because he thinks his own music is so
good. Liking your own music isn’t a sin, but it’s
pretty clear that Kanye believes that because (he
thinks) his music is so good he gets to make his
opinion into the right decision for everyone else.
He says he’s this, he’s the next big thing. Let
your music do the talking, you don’t need to pro-
claim it.

Hartley Fanson
Everyone can, just nobody does
February 10 at 12:16pm · Unlike · 5
Sheel Radia
people are afraid to do that though so nobody elses
opinion is heard. ye is the only one who doesnt
care what people think about him and he says what
he thinks
February 10 at 12:17pm · Edited · Like · 1
Jimbo Hawdon
everyone can kill too hartley
music is based on opinion. Obviously he appeals
to the masses. Maybe he does make good music but
i still don’t see him on the level as j dilla or
mf doom. But they don’t get recognition like kanye
does. Their arguably much better. And yeah some-
times he can say what he thinks but sometimes its
pathetic and childish.
Peter Li
this was very difficult for me to read, i agree with
Dragan 100% and i think people who think that you
need to make music with “real” instruments are just
as elitist as they accuse kanye of being. theres
undeniable proof that kanye has had huge influence
in music and culture so i dont understand how his
“talent” or “skill” is even in question... as for
him being an asshole, alot of successful/talent-
ed artists and musicians are “terrible” people, but
i think theres actually something admirable in his
massive amount of faith and passion in what he does
Hartley Fanson
^Speaks the truth
Jimbo Hawdon
again, Im sure his music is good but how come his
opinion gets herd and nobody else, it’d only be
fair if everyone else stood up and did what he did

Jimbo Hawdon
still, why is it justifiable only cause everyone
“can”. It doesn’t make it right or a nice thing to
do even if everyone did do ti.
Kyle Kim
He appeals to the masses because he’s a manipula-
tor. Using technology ENTIRELY to create music is
tainting the true integrity of music, which is what
he is trying to speak for! And its fucking disgust-
ing
Sheel Radia
ya that wasnt nice. not disagreeing with that.
Hartley Fanson
In terms of artistry, He himself commented that he
was referring to the Grammys in general.
Sheel Radia
wait hitler hates beck?
Hartley Fanson
But speaking your mind no matter the repercussions
is severely different than stabbing someone in the
throat
Hartley Fanson
I think
Evan Spicer
You don’t need to make music with real instruments,
but passive aggressively calling Beck not a real
artist is utterly incorrect on any level. Let’s be
real.

Hartley Fanson
So what I’m getting from this conversation is that
everyone here undoubtedly thinks Kanye’s the best
artist if all time, right?
Sheel Radia
i agree what kanye said was mean though. uncalled
for in fact. BUT he is a reincarnation of our lord
and saviour yeezus christ
Jimbo Hawdon
nonoo.
Ha, hahahahahahahahahaha, kanye west the best art-
ist? hahahahaha
Jimbo Hawdon
he created time
Sheel Radia
i like the capital “h”....nice touch. #godlevel
Hartley Fanson
Glad you noticed
February 10 at 12:20pm · Edited · Like
I agree that the Grammys don’t make the right dei-
cisons sometimes. Especially last year with Ken-
drick losing best album. But don’t take away their
contribution.
Kyle Kim
You guys are ignorant
Jimbo Hawdon
fkn blinded by the black light.

Sheel Radia
he is love
Jimbo Hawdon
Kanye makes the best
just as jesus turned water into wine, kanye turned
music into garbage
Jimbo Hawdon
The best is made only by Kanye, and thus his opin-
ions are fac
Jimbo Hawdon
t
lmao
Kyle Kim
Actually the exact opposite. He has no right to
even speak of musical integrity, is what im saying
Jimbo Hawdon
he is time
Evan Spicer
he is life
Jimbo Hawdon
Kanye isn’t in question with being the best

Todd Gooner
D’Oliveira loooooool
Sheel Radia
Jimbo Hawdon
oh Well hartley he isnt.... he’s god
Jimbo Hawdon
how can he an artist and the best?
Evan Spicer
They’re both artists yo, they should respect each
other. Free love and shit... let’s time travel back
to the 60’s and 70’s or something
Evan Spicer
Kyle Kim
LMFAOOO
Hartley Fanson
this is obviously all conjecture, but I honest-
ly think not calling Kanye an artist at all is the
thing that’s ignorant
Jimbo Hawdon
Who said that?

Hartley Fanson
I have to study linear algebra but I can’t peel my-
self away from defending Yeezy
Kyle Kim
PEACE
Evan Spicer
I need a beer
Jimbo Hawdon
I don’t think you should get a corner though.
i think Beyonce should
Kyle Kim
and love
Jimbo Hawdon
artists are never the best, so he can’t be.
Kyle Kim
Thats an ignorant statement Hartley Fanson but
thats MY opinion. This argument just became entire-
ly subjective so nothings going to get accomplished
Sheel Radia
round one complete
Kyle Kim
Thank you Evan Spicer
Hartley Fanson
back to your corners

Kyle Kim
Agreed. Gurl can fuckinnn SINGG and shake dat booty
Jimbo Hawdon
what the fuck is a Kanye anyway? like who names
their child Khan-Yay
Kyle Kim
Beautiful. Something we agree on. K im outta here
Sheel Radia
it means “only one” in swahili
Jimbo Hawdon
explains his ego...
Beyonce did have the best music video of all
timelol
Sheel Radia
BEYONCE HAD ONE OF THE BEST CORNERS OF ALL TIME
Hartley Fanson
Beyonce deserves a corner, he album was TIGHT
Sheel Radia
she legit did though...
Evan Spicer
OF ALL TIME
Jimbo Hawdon
WHEN DO I GET A CORNER KANYE?

MUCH LONGER
Jenn Caulfield
The issue with what Kanye said is that it is clear
that he thinks that the type of music that he
likes, and that he and his friends are involved in
are the only ones who should be winning Grammy’s.
And back to Kyle’s original point, his “friend”
Beyonce’s career is now taking a hit due to his
disrespectful actions. Yes, people can have their
opinions. But maybe do your research before you
start insulting other artists on television. I’m
sure Kanye knew nothing about Beck or his music be-
fore he bashed him. On the plus side, Beck is get-
ting a ton of publicity from this :)
Sheel Radia
“i wasnt saying beck i said the grammys” “i love
beck, but he didnt have the album of the year”
Jimbo Hawdon
and why nobody else has that ego
Evan Spicer
imbo Hawdon, When you become as good as Kanye West
you’ll know you’re the Kanye Best, and then we can
put you in the corner so you can Kanye Rest
Jimbo Hawdon
<3
Jimbo Hawdon
You won’t need to put me in a corner, I’ll know I
deserve it and I’ll steal that shit from T-Swift if
I have too. I don’t care if she wins it IMA DESERVE
IT
Jimbo Hawdon
But I need you to hurry up now, CAUSE I CAN’T WAIT

her into stardom. I could make a list of women I’d
rather hear song over Beyonce.
Julian Kennedy
Both Bey and Ye are mainly popular now because
they’ve become like staple foods of white people.
Girls love Beyonce for unknown reasons, and guys
love Kanye cause he’s crazy. His rapping is good,
but I can’t respect him for the mindless shit he
says.
Andre Kim
Honestly the Grammys don’t mean shit. I mean Iggy
gets nominated for best rap album and Megan train-
or gets nominated for all about that bass which she
stole from a korean artist. Good for beck but it
doesn’t matter. Just enjoy your music lol. Kanye
will always be number one fuckboy.
Sheel Radia
http://www.tmz.com/.../kanye-west-grammys-beck-be-
yonce.../
Kanye West -- When I Insinuated Beck Wasn’t a Real
Artist I Meant ...
Kanye West now says he was not suggesting Beck...
TMZ.COM
Peter Li
Jimbo thats jus str8 up racist lol
Julian Kennedy
Beyonce isn’t even good. If Beyonce was ugly she
would’t have a career. Whereas Jennifer Hudson
started fat, but had an amazing voice which carried

all you can say is the only reason they are popular
is because of white people?
Eat shit.
Beyonce and Kanye are talented people, insanely
talented. You think the blood, sweat, and tears of
these two artists of colour are either justified or
nullified simply by the opinions of white people?
You should be fucking ashamed of yourself god damn.
Andre Kim
How is Julian racist? lol He just praised like 6
black artists in his last comment
Simon Steer
That doesn’t make him not racist
Simon Steer
He literally said the only reason they are popular
is because of white people, which illegitimizes the
Julian Kennedy
There are also many rappers better than Kanye, but
less outrageously outspoken. Kendrick, Tyler, Joey
Bada$$, Earl. Both Kanye and Beyonce are big shots
cause some white kid was like “PRAISE YE” so every-
one does. Even if he was good I would never want
to support such an arrogant person. This isn’t the
only time he did something outrageous...
Marko Kobelak
Yes Kyle! kanye is a cunt. Love his music though.
February 10 at 1:05pm · like · 3
Simon Steer
Julian Kennedy you are a racist piece of trash.
“Bey and Ye are mainly popular now because they’ve
become like staple foods of white people”.
Go fuck yourself. smh it’s fucking 2015 and you’re
shitting on black artists who work their ASSES off
to get noticed and even make it to the Grammy’s and

Andre Kim
when did I say that. Julians not racist bro. And i
dont know where you get off calling him a piece of
trash. And his saying the demographic of people who
listen to beyonce and ye are mainly white? Whats
wrong with that. and he said mainly popular now,
which doesnt have to do with their success from
before it means why their popular now. you need to
fucking chill bro. And stop insulting ppl
Alula Leakemariam
Evan in regard to you saying kanye doesn’t consider
beck a real artist. Yes he does. When a pap tried
to accuse him saying that the next day he said “I
love beck but he didn’t have album of the year”.
Kyle therefore that statement alone CAN NOT de-
scribe the musical integrity of the great kanye. I
come here with love and I’m not saying what kanye
said was right
hard work they’ve put into their art and makes it
seem like they owe white people for their success
Andre Kim
He didn’t say anything about them being black his
judging them as an artist. That doesn’t make him
racist.
Simon Steer
Oh, and listening to black artists doesn’t absolve
you of racism. I know dozens of white kids from the
suburbs who love Kendrick just as much as they love
throwing around the word “nigga”
Simon Steer
HE IS LITERALLY ATTRIBUTING BLACK ARTISTS SUCCESS
TO WHITE PEOPLE HOW IS THAT NOT RACIST

Simon Steer
trivializing racist comments as “humour” just
serves to justify racist statements in the first
place
Andre Kim
Its not a racist comment.
Marko Kobelak
Honestly deep down I think Kanye’s motivation on
Sunday was to imply that a white guy always wins
at the Grammy’s based off recent years at least.
Mack Elmore beating Kendrick, and now Beck beating
Beyonce as prime recent examples as of late. But
that’s just speculation based off of his lyrics.
Simon Steer
How is saying that white people are directly re-
sponsible for a black artist’s success not racist
Alula Leakemariam
Oh I should have read on this was already said..
Simon Steer
lmao are you stupid? saying:
“Both Kanye and Beyonce are big shots cause
some white kid was like “PRAISE YE” so everyone
does.”...See More
Andre Kim
Man its fucking humour. All of these things don’t
make him racist your trying to make this bigger
then it is.
Andre Kim
And yeah bro Im fucking stupid cuz Im defending
someone whos on facebook cause you calling a piece
of trash and told him to go fuck himself.

wanna make this into a race issue its more offensive
to white people. But the issue here is you shit
talking Julian for no reason on facebook. Where do
you get off on that ?
Simon Steer
LOOOOOOOOOOL DID YOU JUST TRY AND SAY THIS IS OF-
FENSIVE TO WHITE PEOPLE BYE IM DONEEEEE
Andre Kim
Yeah I did...big shock. His kind of making fun of
the white people who praise Kanye. But then again I
don’t think its racist and I never thought it was a
big deal. But congrats bud on ignoring all the ac-
tual points in my comment.
Julian Kennedy
Woah I leave for five minutes
Simon Steer
please extrapolate
Evan Spicer
Regardless, the way in which he said it was a pas-
sive aggressive way for Kanye to comment on Beck
and how the Grammys operate in a negative way be-
cause he and his buds didn’t get the praise he
thought they deserved. He acts too childish for my
liking, ...See More
Andre Kim
Holy shit. Cuz like I said before, one he said
“popular now” that doesn’t atribute to their come
up into success or the reason why they became an
artist. His talking about who likes their music now
and in some points I have to agree alot of white
people do like Kanye and Beyonce. And he didn’t
fucking say white people make Kanye and Beyonce
who they are as an artist. And the whole white kid
screaming ye was humour. Honestly if you REALLY

Jimbo Hawdon
Jimbo Hawdon Peter Li how was i racist.... im in-
sinuating he is black, which he clearly is, and
that he is bringing light to the music industry
which he also is trying to do with his opinion. I’m
not saying it’s a bad thing, just that people are
blinded by his music and they don’t see his per-
sonality. It was more of a play on words than me
trying to insult or be racist because he is black
- that doens’t change anything - it’s the fact that
he’s fooling us in thinking he’s the best cause his
mucic is so damn good - that he thinks people think
of his music that way.
Julian Kennedy
I see where you interpreted that. What I meant was
that my Facebook feed is always filled with girls
just posting how beyonce is life. Also, I don’t
think it’s a secret that a lot of people who like
Kanye as an idea (not his music but all the crazy
shi...See More
Simon Steer
okay fine Im sorry for calling him a piece of trash
he’s still racist though for what he said, which is
what my point was in the first place
February 10 at 1:35pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Natalie Panacci
The funny thing is, Kanye is getting exactly what
he wanted out of this. He wanted a reaction, peo-
ple to talk about him. It seems as though he did
this because he thought he had the right too. Which
he didn’t. Beck won, and he should have respected
that. Nothing he could have said could change what
happened. And he knew that. But he did it so that
people could talk about him. And he succeeded.
Andre Kim
We need a Kanye at the Oscars for whenever Leo
doesn’t win.

Simon Steer
I can’t believed I’ve had to reiterate this more
than three times I’m turning off notifications for
this crap bye y’all stay racist
Julian Kennedy
no, jesus, my main point wash;t because those peo-
ple are white, the point was that someone just said
praise ye so all their friends did.
Jimbo Hawdon
ouu, you said y’all, might be a racist ova hur.
Peter Li
Evan Spicer
Yeah, Kanye is definitely a media mastermind (and
bonus that he’s married to Kim Kardashian, just
makes that union a social media juggernaut)
Julian Kennedy
It’s almost too perfect that they’re married. It’s
like the start of a bad joke.
Simon Steer
I’m not referring to what you said about white
girls LISTENING to Beyonce. I don’t care about
that. I’m referring to where you said, and I quote:
“Both Kanye and Beyonce are big shots cause some
white kid was like “PRAISE YE” so everyone does.”
Because you are claiming their populaity is BECAUSE
of white people

Julian Kennedy
Peter Li you’re only proving my point. That’s also
a common expression, but you took it as racist.
You’re the problem bro
Jimbo Hawdon
Me finding his name odd isn’t racist, that’s just my
opinion on his name.
Jimbo Hawdon
or that name for this matter.
Julian Kennedy
Ya I don’t see how Jimbo Hawdon talking about
Kanye’s name is racist, but you somehow found a
way. Congrats
Peter Li
Julian u don’t think Beyoncé is good not sure if ur
Julian Kennedy I used “basic white girls” as an
example, I can’t help if you’re the kind of person
who looks at a sentence and only sees “white peo-
ple”
Peter Li
Jimbo Hawdon
Peter, that’s still not proving im racist, I was
talking about his name and his skin colour. If
someone said I was white they’re not racist THEY’RE
STATING A FACT

Julian Kennedy
Once again, your logic blows my mind
Andie Fiala
Natalie Panacci this was not about kanye doing this
as a publicity stunt, this was about him call-
ing out the sexism and racism with in the grammys
and the awards. Example - last year they said the
awards were given based on who sold the most and in
2014 beyonces album sold 2 million plus and Beck
had the lowest recorded sales of his career...
Andie Fiala
Jimbo Hawdon please don’t like my comment
Jimbo Hawdon
Next time post an instruction manual on who can and
can’t.
input has any value at all
Kyle O’Shaughnessy This is hilarious
Julian Kennedy
I’m actually baffled by your logic in circling that
point
Jimbo Hawdon
Peter thats his opinion. Your bonding fact and
opinion
Julian Kennedy
You probably think I don’t like her cause she’s
black right?
Julian Kennedy
Why is my opinion less significant than yours?

Jimbo Hawdon
you actually all gave me some awesome insight for
an essay im writing in film class.
Julian Kennedy
Is it about the over diagnosing of racism in young
adults?
Jimbo Hawdon
LMFAO I LOVE YOU JULIAN
Jimbo Hawdon no but it should be.
Jimbo Hawdon
I wish I had an elitist mind to diagnose anyone who
says BLACK
Julian Kennedy
Well if that’s what validates Album of the year,
then that’s a problem there
Jimbo Hawdon
you want me to disagree with you Andie Fiala
Jimbo Hawdon
??
Andie Fiala
Jimbo Hawdon its not that serious james... relax
Jimbo Hawdon lol

Jimbo Hawdon
stop what?
Julian Kennedy
Andie Fiala can’t take the heat
Laura Kirby-McIntosh
Admit it--you all really miss Friday debates in
Civics class. But I have to say something here: I
can literally think of 100 topics that would be
more important to debate than this one. Please try
to expend the same amount of energy on political
issues as you do debating which celebrity is more
deserving of an award. http://idebate.org/view/
top_100_debates
Top 100 Debates | idebate.org
Debate resources, training and events. Published by
IDEA
IDEBATE.ORG
Jimbo Hawdon
too bad i’m just a honkeyyyy
Julian Kennedy
No you don’t
Brendan Goodman
https://www.thefader.com/.../all-the-times-kanye-
west...
Here’s All The Times Kanye West Gave His Own Awards
To Someone Else
“I have no awards. My greatest award is what I’m...
THEFADER.COM
Andie Fiala
Jimbo Hawdon honestly james stop
Jimbo Hawdon
and you’re right, i never do.

Julian Kennedy
See that right there actually violates freedom of
speech Andie
Andre Kim
HOW IS HE RACIST LOL. HOW IS ANYONE HERE RACIST.
Julian Kennedy
Cause we used the words “black” and “white” which
are taboo
Andie Fiala
Julian Kennedy no one gives a shit if you say
“black” or “white” its just a matter of you guys
being racist
Julian Kennedy
Please, go on
Josh Stuckey
Lol. Opinions. Haha.
Jimbo Hawdon
STOP FREEDOM OF SPEECH EVERYBODY
Julian Kennedy
STOP WHITES
Andie Fiala
Jimbo Hawdon its not freedom of speech if your be-
ing a racist bigot
Andre Kim
I’m sure there are much better ways of bringing to
light the racism and sexism at the grammys.

and kanye to white people and no one is acknowledg-
ing how damaging that is to the success of a black
person
Jimbo Hawdon you literally made fun of Kanye’s name
and then when you were politely told what it meant
you continued to joke about it
Nickolaos Dodas
What is happening.....
Andie Fiala
Kanye was an ass, and he is, and his music
shouldn’t be judged from what he does outside of
his music. Yes, he’s a narcissist, and yes hes
rude. He always donates, and supports many chari-
ties, but obviously no one cares about that. John
Lennon was a loud homohobe and beat his wife, yet
you guys are still wet for the beatles and couldn’t
care less about how he was as a person. But all
personal opinions aside, racism comes from not
knowing what were doing to be oppressive
Jimbo Hawdon
so where were we racist? seriously?
Jimbo Hawdon
all sarcasm aside.
Julian Kennedy
Racists know they’re racist. No racist person is
ashamed of being racist. So if I meant to be rac-
ist I wouldn’t be covering it up. It’s just how you
took what I said
Julian Kennedy
It’s not that serious Andie…relax
Andie Fiala
Julian Kennedy you accredited success of beyonce

Marko Kobelak
I disagree Julian . although I don’t think you were
being racist, doesn’t mean people can’t unknowingly
be racist.
Andie Fiala
ah yes it must have been hard growing up a white
man named James i’m sorry
Andre Kim
^thats racist
Andie Fiala
as a white male james really cant experience racim
Jimbo Hawdon
and shes white OMG
we need to stop being so oppressive to the black
community because they have been put down for so
long, and everything good they every do is never
credited to them. A black artists success shouldn’t
amount to how many white people like them or how
many white fans they have. and no, you can’t be
‘racist to white people’ because white people
havent faced the same amount of systematic and in-
stutionalized racism like any other race in north
america has. And Jimbo Hawdon yes, it is racist
to make fun of a black persons name, to say “who
names their child khan-yay anyway” is similar to
how slaves had to be stripped of their birth name
because it was ‘savage’ or in 21st century terms,
‘ghetto.’ sorry his name isnt John or Paul, and you
cant take him seriously.
lastly, IF the grammys was truly not a racist or
sexist thing, then beyonce should have won in fair-
ness to the amount of records she sold (as it was
last year), not because of politics, which it
clearly is.

Marko Kobelak
I think she means because of the lack of knowledge
on your part that it was a traditional black name
that yes you were unknowingly racist despite you’re
intention of never wanting to be. Happens to every-
one everyday.
Marko Kobelak
/thread
Jimbo Hawdon
Im still lost on how making fun of a name is rac-
ist though... (justifying im racist because someone
else is black with a certain name doesnt make me
racist). if Kanye was white, I would still be ask-
ing what his name is and making fun of it - but i
wouldnt be racist cause he’s white? (that’s racist)
Andie Fiala
he can experience prejudice
Andie Fiala
but not racism
Andre Kim
Thats actually racist again
Andre Kim
White people can experience racism...aka now..
Jimbo Hawdon
yeah twice in 5 min ive been raced
Jimbo Hawdon
if im first victim let me get the award

Andie Fiala
and if u think any of these comments were “:~( rac-
ist towards white ppl :~(“ then you obviously have
never had to experience racism, and therefore do
not understand the true magnitude of its effects.
Jimbo Hawdon
Well you’re just as racist as we are then cause
like i said earlier, if he were white and named
Kanye it wouldn’t be racist. By saying he has a
black name we could say the same thing about you.
Oppressing the names to only black folk
Andre Kim
I never said racism ended after slavery....And
being white is a race or I guess more specific be-
ing from a Eurpeon decent..which is still white. So
yeah when you say something like white people can’t
be the victims of racism...THATS RACISM LOL idk how
to explain to you that being white is a race no
matter where racism came from. Like all advocates
Andre Kim
Yeah I don’t see it either. It be different if he
was like Black people have stupid names or why
would you name a black person that. He was like
just that’s a funny name.
Jimbo Hawdon
Yeah, im attacking his mother for naming him, more
of a family issue than racial but I get it, you
know cause I’m white and all.
Andie Fiala
No andre it’s not. Sure you can be mean to white
people, and be prejeduce, but racist? no. Racism
comes from a position of power. Racism is institu-
ationalized (Grammys) and systematic (Police force
and schools). It is oppression that trickles down
from...See More

Andie Fiala
I laid it out for you. I literally gave you the
anthropological definiton of racism and yet youd
rather try to claim nothing you said was oppres-
sive. Jimbo Hawdon also the fact is, Kanye is a
black name. It is a name of a black man. That name
isnt oppressive. Making fun of it and mocking it
is oppressive though. i dont even know why your so
hooked on this name thing, it was just an exam-
ple of the racist things youve said. and for future
reference, when someone says youve said something
racist, instead of trying to defend yourself to the
death, maybe reflect on your words and see how they
could have affected someone.
Victoria Musial
against racism say everyone is equal which means
everyone can experience racism. AND IM LIKE THE
ONLY MINORITY TALKING IN THIS ARGUEMENT RIGHT NOW
LOL.
Marko Kobelak
^ it sounds like you wanna see him suffer for making
a mistake every single person in the world makes
weekly. Don’t be so butthurt as its clear it wasn’t
Jimbo’s intention to be racist. He’s just trying to
understand why people are saying he was being rac-
ist. Remember, Butthurt people = worst people.
Sheel Radia
What if left shark said these things? What would
the media do?
Marko Kobelak
I hate that I liked your comment Sheel. You beat
me.

left shark doesn’t mean you can make fun of him and
his dance moves.
Reuben Jude Corriea
You guys realize Kanye profuced some of the best
hip-hop tracks/albums of the past 15 years right
Marko Kobelak
Nanda? Koros! Hartley Fanson
Sheel Radia
This isnt even about kanye anymore. Out
Julian Kennedy
White people can experience racism… the way you
justified it was basically saying all whites are on
top. I’d rather you didn’t look at me as a colour
and more as a young adult with close to no power.
But I am white and let’s say I go for a job inter-
Jimbo Hawdon
Because you’re saying making fun of his name is op-
pressive cause he’s black... that’s also racist.
Andie Fiala
im laughing so hard i just fucking died and am nev-
er talking to you again HAHAH bye
Evan Spicer
a little late since the change of pace, but
Sheel Radia
Sharkism is serious guys. Just because he was a

Julian Kennedy
Also this entire argument would’t have taken place
in person because it is a result of huge misun-
derstandings. By that I mean that the way you say
something in person or the emphasis put on different
points doesn’t show up on Facebook
Pamela Riley Simpson
The job example...”Affirmative action is one of the
most effective tools for redressing the injustic-
es caused by our nation’s historic discrimination
against people of color and women, and for leveling
what has long been an uneven playing field.”
Andie Fiala
“Kanye is an Igbo (Nigerian) name meaning “Let’s
give” or to give honor, tribute.[1] The name is
usually a shorter version of another name e.g.
Kanyechukwuekele (let’s give God praise) etc.”
view and don’t get hired because maybe the job tra-
ditionally goes to people of a different background.
Would you not argue that that is racism? In fact
it’s racist that you would group all white people
together as people of power, like you did with po-
lice.
Julian Kennedy
Kanye isn’t a black name. What even is a black
name? Now you’re assigning names to colour? Kanye
is the name of ONE black guy. It could just as eas-
ily been given to a white person, as Jimbo clearly
indicated. But some people would rather try to find
problems than solutions.
Pamela Riley Simpson
Actually that’s affirmative action Julian Kennedy
Julian Kennedy
Explain

this is a stupid as fuck comment. You don’t get a
goddam letter in the mail. People are unintention-
ally racist all the time.
Julian Kennedy
Kanye West isn’t from Nigeria
Julian Kennedy
Fair enough. but most of the time people who are
racist are racist on purpose. My comment wasn’t
racist, but it was taken that way because reading
something is different than hearing it
Victoria Musial
im just gonna leave this here to say that kanye is
a traditional black name. and james mocked it. if a
white person is named kanye cool thats great, but
thats besides the point julian.
Andre Kim
Yeah but you also said white people can’t be the
victims of race.^ And you made fun of James name
too.
Julian Kennedy
Ok so it’s a black name. Is it forever reserved for
Nigerians?
Christopher Rock
“Racists know they’re racist. No racist person is
ashamed of being racist. So if I meant to be rac-
ist I wouldn’t be covering it up. It’s just how you
took what I said “

still refuse to see how it was. So you can contin-
ue trying to defend racist comments or you can just
stop altogether.
Julian Kennedy
just as much as you refuse to see how it wasn’t
Andie Fiala
that doesnt make any fucking sense. theres no grey
area in racism. it either is, or it isn’t. it was a
micro-aggression but his comment was still racist,
intentional or not. like wtf.
Julian Kennedy
“it either is, or it isn’t”. You think it was, I
think it wasn’t. We’re both sticking to our points.
You can’t just say yours is right and mine is wrong
anymore than I can say yours is wrong and mine is
right
Julian Kennedy
It’s easy to misinterpret what I said, I admitted
that. But my point wasn’t about white people, it
involved white people. And from that I don’t blame
anyone for taking it the wrong way because like
I’ve stated, it’s easy to misread things. And race
is already a delicate topic.
Julian Kennedy
I’M THE 300TH COMMENT
Brett Brocoy
Andie Fiala
Julian, we just told James that what he said was
racist. intentional or not, it was racist. and you

Julian Kennedy
(Slow clap)
Brook Walwyn
You guys are seriously entertaining! So much pas-
sion. I really appreciate your comments Andie Fiala
on this post, and your attempt at educating oth-
ers on racism. I definitely try not to get involved
with stuff like this, but the term “racist” car-
ries a lot of weight, and it is really being thrown
around much too freely in this discussion! Accusing
someone of being a racist can be very offensive and
hurtful, so definitely use that term more carefully!
I definitely commend those that recognized the hints
of racial discrimination that underlie some of the
comments above! But instead of accusing others of
being racists, simply remind them to be sensitive
with their words and educate them on why they may
have been poor choices :)
Andie Fiala
ok gr8 have fun bein a bigot bye
Andre Kim
Racist comments: “ ah yes it must have been hard
growing up a white man named James i’m sorry “
Sean Ugh
racism is the belief that all people from one race
share the same characteristics, so Andie Fiala was
being blatantly racist when she assumed that all
white men named james walk the same path. maybe ur
overly liberal dictionary says otherwise but the
oxford dictionary would side with me. i really wan-
na call u names but that would undermine my argu-
ment so i wont
Sean Ugh
but the oxford dictionary was written by whites so
it must be inherently racist

ing of your music. I’m not even going into the con-
cept of sound design. Kyle Kim, I appreciate your
artistry, but just because I can’t play the strings
or horns doesn’t mean I can’t write a mean horns
line or string section. Just because kanye can’t
play jazz piano doesn’t mean he can’t get to an end
product that’s just as valuable as someone who can.
(side note: can dilla play jazz piano? nope! his
beats are proper jazzy though) I’ll give you anoth-
er example: I have a friend who has studied visual
art professionally. He’s an amazing artist and can
bump out an accurate sketch in less than 10 min-
utes. I’ve never been trained in visual art and it
takes me 10 times to do the same thing he can do.
If I have a better idea/perspective/concept does it
matter that I can’t “draw” the way he does? Nope,
the only thing that matters is whether you feel the
work I’ve created. Who’s the better artist? Him,
who has studied and knows WAY more about art than
I do, or me - who just made something equally awe-
some. I’d argue that we both have our place. Just
because the tools are different - doesn’t mean that
the skill is any less valuable. end rant.
Victoria Musial
Bring it back to the point of this status: It blows
my mind that Beck plays 14 instruments! Definite-
ly an artist that deserves recognition for his hard
work!
Jeremy N.
So let’s just pause this racism bit for a min-
ute, and get back to the point - assigning value to
Kanye West. Making music on a computer is no less
valuable than making music with a traditional in-
strument. If you can conceptualize a song and cre-
ate it you have skill. This is like devaluing the
orchestrators/arrangers (count basie) and songwrit-
ers (cole porter) of old. That’s what a producer
does - he/she creates music. Creating music with-
out a computer involved in any part of your process
these days is next to impossible. That’s kind of
like saying - if you can hand write a book you’re
better than the people who used a word processor.
No reason for that. Use the tools that make life
easier. Learn the processes that support the mak-

jazz piano, or do anything musical for that matter,
but still pulls some finished product out of his
as...See More
Kyle Kim
And holy FUCk did this ever escalate fast. Thanks
for all your input everybody.
Dragan Maricic
Kyle, listen to my beautiful dark twosted fantasy.
It’s a fucking masterpiece. None of what your say-
ing makes any sense.
Kyle Kim
Natalie Panacci I like how you mentioned that. If
he’s conscious of the impact his actions have on
the public, then that makes him even more of a
fucking asshole and manipulator, and yeah I sure as
hell conformed to that by saying something about
it, but this is because people like Kanye rub me
Jeremy N.
also, this: http://www.vox.com/.../2/9/8005609/
beck-beat-beyonce-grammys
How Beck beat Beyoncé for Album of the Year
How on Earth did Beck win?
VOX.COM
Jimbo Hawdon
Brook Walwyn is absolutely right, and I will ad-
mit that what I said may be sensitive to people...
clearly - but this is facebook where freedom of
speech is allowed so just expect that when you log
on. And I will apologize for anyone who has and or
will...See More
Kyle Kim
Jeremy N. I write horn parts for the brass sec-
tion of my band all the time, but thats besides the
point I was making. The fact the Kanye can’t play

place, and soon, before this so called ‘god’ many
of you seem to blindly worship, brainwashes all of
us into dogs of a failed music industry.
Kyle Kim
Thats your opinionDragan Maricic. And I have mine,
which is none of what you have been saying makes
any sense to me. So lets just agree to disagree
Dragan Maricic
You’re ridiculous, i’m sorry i just can’t fath-
om how you’re saying he “manipulates”. What in the
hell does that even mean...
Reuben Jude Corriea
There’s so much indie rock superiority complex go-
ing on in this thread.
Dragan Maricic
the wrong way, especially as a musician, and I
have a eight to speak out. To me, the only inno-
vation and contribution he made to music was a
mindless army out of the dogs of mainstream mu-
sic consumption that now worship and view him as a
god, using manipulation and processed beats, while
“rapping”(which is in no way a musical skill what-
soever) trying to sing over top of, and crying like
a baby whenever he didnt get his way in the indus-
try. But the system’s fucked up and we all know
that, and Kanye found the most arrogant and dick-
headed way to fuck the system, and proclaim his
place as this ‘Yeezus’ (I say with the utmost dis-
dain) character, and those of you who have suc-
cumbed to this piece of shit of a human being are
no different than the Christian who worships an in-
visible God, living lives driven by rules and a
book written by some off-handed pricks with nothing
else to do rather than illustrate false information
to manipulate the masses (and in no way am I dis-
crediting the whole instutition of Christianity, it
is merely hypothetical). Ignorance is bliss, and
its a sad truth. Someone needs to put him in his

better. But than again, look how much controversy
it stirred up, maybe it was a good business desi-
sion. keeping the Grammys relevant.
Dragan Maricic
Ahahahahah
Dragan Maricic
The grammys did all of this for publicity man. This
was all a huge money grab.
Tristan Fells
Kanye and Grammys prob got a deal going
Dragan Maricic
The last really long post kyle wrote looks exactly
like something my dad would say.
THANK YOU Reuben !!!
Sheel Radia
“you know this shit is? f***n ridiculous”
Tristan Fells
Holy...How did this result in so much arguing? Ob-
viously kanye is in the wrong He’s saying ‘better’
music isn’t up for interpretation, which is the
only thing it is. Quality of art is subjective so
to award musicians hunks of gold or whatever gram-
mys are made of is just the gravy on opinion. THE
ONLY thing that makes what Kanye west said of value
is remembering who is actually watching the Gram-
mys and who the nominated artists cater to. I’d say
there were a lot more beyonce fans than Beck fans
watching, and the The guys behind the show of the
Grammys need to remember that pleasing their fans
is more important than awarding a less convention-
al choice, because it’s a BUSINESS decision . Not a
divine ultimatum tht dictates what music is REALLY

Jeremy N.
We resorting to personal attacks Kyle Kim? Let me
repeat - I appreciate your musical skills and com-
petencies and think you’re a cool human. I’m disa-
greeing with your perspective.
Kyle Kim
Well if he doesnt know the requirements needed and
somehow needs computer software to ensure that
sturdiness, then i wouldnt call him an architect
Jeremy N.
^^ And this is when the argument has reached it’s
illogical end.
Kyle Kim
Jeremy N. Agree to disagree then on perspective, I
respect your opinion. But I do agree with the end-
ing of this argument
Kyle Kim
Wouldnt be surprised
Jeremy N.
Kyle, does an architect actually have to BUILD the
building to be considered a good architect? Or is
it enough that he knows what is required of the
builders and uses his computer software to create
the structure and ensure that it’s sturdy?
Kyle Kim
Go look up manipulate in the dictionary if you dont
know what that means cause it seems like youre
pretty uneducated
Dragan Maricic
No, i know what it means. I have no clue what YOU
mean when you use that word.

like I said, we have conflicting opinions and im
sorry that you feel the way you do. Thats why I
suggested that the only sensible conclusion is to
respectively agree to disagree Dragan Maricic
Reuben Jude Corriea
Wait hold up dawg, you seriously don’t think rap-
ping is a musical skill? Could you explain that
one?
Dragan Maricic
Yeah that one is borderline offensive
Reuben Jude Corriea
just read the first few comments too. Kyle Kim do
you really, truly, sincerely believe that producing
and rapping takes no talent?
Dagina Coronel
I like turtles!
Jeremy N.
Cheers Kyle Kim.
Dragan Maricic
Guy, none of what you’re saying makes any reasona-
ble sense.
Dragan Maricic
I can understand if you dont like the mans music
but to undermine it blatanly by saying that what he
does isn’t noteworthy is nonsensical
Kyle Kim
And the way I see it, anyone who sees his work as
noteworthy and has no sense at all as well, but

Kyle Kim
Producing too, I see being outside of music itself.
Like I said, anybody can turn on the computer, flick
a few switches and knobs, play around the keyboard
a little, and boom, you got a sick beat to rap
over. All that requires is a half decent ear and
general perception of music, but it does not re-
quire a degree of musicianship at all, in my opin-
ion. Thats why Im saying anybody with half a brain
can pick that up, but not everybody is capable of
picking up an instrument and orchestrating some-
thing beautiful with it; thats a gift. Manipulat-
ing technology to create these processed beats and
sounds just doesnt seem organic enough to me to be
music, because one can do it without having any mu-
sical knowledge whatsoever.
Reuben Jude Corriea
So then alot of the early punk bands who just
strummed any 3 chords and yelled was “outside of
music” too?
Kyle Kim
I didnt say rapping required no talent, but I think
rap is more associated more with poetry or spoken
word, presented in an eloquent form that seems to
have ‘flow’. But in my opinion, it doesnt have very
much to do with music itself; its more a simple
form of entertainment. I see rap as a skill/abili-
ty/talent, whatever you may call it, in itself, but
I dont like associating it with music. Obviously,
mainstream music does merge rap into the category
of music, which makes the whole institution of it
subjective, so thats why we have conflicting per-
spectives.
Kyle Kim
So I’ll apologize if I offended anyone
Reuben Jude Corriea
And producing?

rant towards something that is not in your interest
and that is really sad.
Dragan Maricic
It’s also immature as hell.
Dragan Maricic
You dont flick around a few nobs and push a few but-
tons and some magic piece of music comes out.
Kyle Kim
I see that, but you outlined the significant differ-
ence; rappers pick up a program, like pro tools or
whatever, rockers pick up an instrument. A soft-
ware created by the digital revolution vs. an actu-
al real musical instrument. Music in its raw form
has been around for a lot longer than the web. So
it goes to show, once the internet and technolo-
gy became something for artists to use, thats when
the hip-hop movement began, and there’s alot of old
Kyle Kim
Hey, at least they knew what chords are and how
they progressed through a song. But that in itself
was the spirit of punk; the DIY ethic...figuring it
out for yourself....picking up an instrument and
making it sound good...and this got embedded into
future punk rock cultures to come. So maybe there’s
something within the spirit of rap and its roots
that I have missed, which is probably why we dont
agree on these points
Reuben Jude Corriea
If you take your comment and change a few words,
you can say the same about hip-hop production:
“But that in itself was the spirit of hip-hop; the
DIY ethic...figuring it out for yourself....picking
up an program and making it sound good...and this
got embedded into future hip-hop cultures to come.”
Dragan Maricic
Kyle, you are grossly offensive and incredibly igno-

fucking power chords and call it “music”. Good for
them, now they are a “musician” because they wield
a plank of wood with some metal in it.
Dragan Maricic
It has EVERYTHING to do with music.
Reuben Jude Corriea
Right so with that logic when the industrial rev-
olution hit the world and guitars were being mass
produced any kid could that had a few bucks could
“capitalize on the institution of music because
production management became such an accessible
skill for anyone with an ear to develop.” Which
then discredits all of rock music. But I’m just us-
ing your logic.
Dragan Maricic
I find it rewarding and beautiful that anyone can
make music via technology. It’s a gorgeous thing.
school hiphop that was very musically oriented like
Tribe, Public Enemy, Beastie Boys, The Roots, Wu
Tang and of course Tupac, but they all were able to
capitalize on the institution of music because pro-
duction management became such an accessible skill
for anyone with an ear to develop.
Dragan Maricic
You carefully craft and construct every layer and
intricate detail to what your making and that shit
takes TIME, SKILL, and KNOWLEDGE.
Kyle Kim
Time, skill and knowledge, BUT NONE OF THAT HAS AN-
YTHING TO DO WITH MUSIC. Thats the point im making
Dragan Maricic
I wish i never picked up guitar, it’s the most lim-
ited instrument known to man. Overrated as all
fuck and any douche can pick it up and strum some

Kyle Kim
So again, agree to disagreeDragan Maricic nobodys
going to win this argument because its opinion vs.
Opinion
Dragan Maricic
At this point it isnt about opinion but an inher-
ent lack of knowledge and ignorance you posses that
continues to offend me.
Dragan Maricic
The only opinion i have is that you have no idea of
what you’re talking about but that you are still
talking and it’s because of how you feel and not
what you know.
Dragan Maricic
Because what you know is limited and it’s limited
because you put the limits there to try and uphold
that old rock and roll credibility.
The idea to make something like that accessible to
all is my idea of peace and love.
Dragan Maricic
Sure there is a lot of shitty music made but that
goes the same for anyone deciding to pick up guitar
or any other instrument as well
Kyle Kim
Alright thats something I can agree with, but if
you really think that about the guitar, then drop
it and become a producer. I can respect your opin-
ion about music being made by technology, but the
point im trying to make is that, in terms of MUSIC
in its raw form, theres a difference between pick-
ing up an instrument and figuring it out for your-
self and downloading a software/production program
and figuring it yourself. Organic vs. Artificial, and
maybe I just dont understand the New Age way of
viewing music because Im too classically trained.
February 10 at 11:38pm · Edited · Like

Kyle Kim
Ok but thats still your opinion. Musicianship and
the ability to play music still has nothing to do
with producing and technology; they’re two different
things. Producing is an element of music, just like
rap.
Kyle Kim
Its too bad you didnt learn anything, cause Ive
humbly gained a perspectice Ive not seen before.
Dragan Maricic
An element of music... You have no idea what you’re
talking about.
Dragan Maricic
The reason i havent learned anything is because i
used to think like you did but only when i was 15.
Dragan Maricic
By the way, music cannot be artificial if you made
it with feeling. No matter what device or instru-
ment you use.
Desiree Das Gupta
I think we all learned something here
Dragan Maricic
You’re production can be raw and organic just as
much a plucking a chord for the first time. There is
joy in that.
Dragan Maricic
I didn’t learn anything but hopefully i helped shed
some light on what music in 2015 is. Big ups to
everyone on this thread who knows where i’m coming
from and who helped shed some light themselves.

you’re saying. Kyle’s perspective is a crucial ele-
ment to his feelings about his art, and i’m guess-
ing so is Dragan’s. The point is that if you feel
your art is staring into space or doing hair or
whatev...See More
Yesterday at 12:02am · Like · 1
Kyle Kim
The computer is a tool, not an instrument. It can
alter sounds with switches and buttons so that it
comes out the way you want it but you cannot play
it like an instrument, where the sounds and pitches
are merely played with your bare hands. That is the
difference I am outlining between music and produc-
tion. End of discussion.
Kyle Kim
And with regard to the subjective nature of this
argument (and what Des just said), opinion vs.
Opinion. Everyone’s right and nobody’s wrong. We
all see music differently, and thats why music is so
beautiful. Kanye’s behaviour at rhe Grammy’s just
Kyle Kim
Ignorance is bliss. thats why you dont know what im
talking about, and never will Dragan Maricic I have
no need or desire to continue this argument. Every-
one’s right and nobody’s wrong, thats why we’re
getting nowhere.
Dragan Maricic
Same baseless and elitist arguments that had no ac-
tual merit of contribution but trying to bring back
this reactionary notion that music is only real if
played on an instrument. The computer is an instru-
ment like any other, with the ability to do infinite
possibilities musically, and you, you’re limiting
this because all you see is some buttons. That’s
all kinds of fucked up.
Desiree Das Gupta
Dragan i get what you’re saying. Kyle i get what

osity
Dragan Maricic
What i want to happen is simple. I want it to be
known that plugging in stems on a laptop is just as
creative and just as challenging and raw as pluck-
ing away at a guitar. Because in this day and age
it is a fact, not an opinion, a fact that digital
production is a musical form of creativity that too
embodies the term musicianship.
Yesterday at 12:12am · Edited · like · 3
Dragan Maricic
And if you cant see that then you need to question
your worth and knowledge as a musician.
Yesterday at 12:13am · Like
Desiree Das Gupta
I say fair because of how i feel, but i don’t think
everyone needs to agree. I think it’s fair that
Kyle doesn’t.
goes to show that he has absolutely no respect for
the musicians around him, and that is why I have no
respect for people like him, and people who succumb
to his ideals.
Yesterday at 12:05am · Edited · Like · 2
Dragan Maricic
I refuse to take that.
Kyle Kim
Then dont.
Kyle Kim
We will all be happy that way.
Desiree Das Gupta
Dragan Maricic out of curiosity, what would you
like to happen now? No disrespect, and i can see
how passionate you are about your art, and this has
nothing to do with me or anyone but you know, curi-

Jimbo Hawdon
thats an electric song actually
Jimbo Hawdon
killer solo, on an electric guitar
Dragan Maricic
Ya’ll are on some next shit.
Desiree Das Gupta
i don’t think it’s fair to ask anyone to question
their worth or knowledge as a musician. Be it beck,
kanye, kyle, dragan, my dad, etc. we can definitely
ask people to question their intent though. people
can question people’s “worthiness” as a musician
but let’s not throw around hurt because we’re hurt.
Dragan i respect you for art and your integrity in
how you feel and kyle i respect yours.
Jimbo Hawdon
a world without unplugged sets just sounds like a
horrible place.
Laura Kirby-McIntosh
Anyone have any opinions about how to solve the
Middle East conflict? Because honest to god, some
peace summits haven’t lasted as long as this de-
bate.
Kyle Kim
Yup^ Jimbo Hawdon and I dont think the digital/
industrial revolution justifies it being a fact at
all. Still opinion vs. Opinion and to each his own
Dragan Maricic
A world where everyone walks into a guitar centre
and plucks a shit rendition of stairway to heaven
scares the shit out of me.

Jeremy N.
What’s wrong with accessibility? Let’s apply this
concept to education. Shouldn’t everyone have the
right to be educated? Shouldn’t everyone be able
to make music? This implication that certain types
of musicianship are “better” than others is a huge
pet peeve of mine. You’re arguing that one form of
art is better than another. Who says an instrumen-
talist’s idea of art is better than a person who
doesn’t play an instrument? Hip hop evolved to use
drum machines and samplers in novel ways in part
because the people making music couldn’t afford to
hire a band and didn’t have enough privilege to
spend time learning an instrument. If that’s not
“punk”, I don’t know what is. And ah crap, I got
suckered into this argument again.
Jimbo Hawdon
yes but. TECHNOLOGICAL instrument. vs MUSICAL in-
strument
Jimbo Hawdon
I just think a computer doesn’t belong on the shelf
beside the guitars thats all
Jimbo Hawdon
cause it’s a computer, a technological instrument
yes, but not a musical instrument. I think we are
making massive category mistakes in this argument .
Dragan Maricic
Instrument and tool are two words that mean the ex-
act same thing.
Jimbo Hawdon
go on...
Dragan Maricic
Both are words the coincide with the concept of
creating something.

Dragan Maricic
Thank you!!!
Jimbo Hawdon
you mean technology and music are not categories
Marcel Canzona
you can’t just categorize instruments that way
Jeremy N.
pots and pans, baby
Jimbo Hawdon
it’s a tool of musical instruments (many)
Jimbo Hawdon
TECHNOLOGICAL tool vs MUSICAL tool
Jimbo Hawdon
(does that help?..) im trying to get to your cp.
obvious level
Dragan Maricic
A guitar is technological. Technology made the
fucking thing.
Marcel Canzona
^those aren’t real categories
Marcel Canzona
as soon as something can produce music it’s now a
musical instrument

Desiree Das Gupta
I think what Kyle’s trying to say is that using
your fingers to make a string vibrate which creats
sound is different than taking an already pleas-
ing sound (in shape/dynamics/etc) and manipulat-
ing it on a screen. I dont think it’s fair to say
both aren’t music. They take different skill sets
to create and kyle values one way more than anoth-
er. Doesn’t mean it ISN’T music, just means kyle
doesn’t dig the way it got there.
Jeremy N.
^^ yay for generosity of spirit.
Marcel Canzona
many <3s for des
Dragan Maricic
One can make the argument that the guitar isn’t
solely for making music. It’s decorative, it can be
Dragan Maricic
No... They’re coexisting concepts
Jimbo Hawdon
so then what else to musical instruments do other
than make music. My point is the pc isn’t explicit-
ly for making music
Kyle Kim
Again, this is all just opinion. Nobodys going to
win this way
Marcel Canzona
right but things like multitrack recordings aren’t
made specifically for music
Marcel Canzona
but no one is this mad at les paul

Jeremy N.
I would argue that the computer is a far more ver-
satile instrument that can use the guitar as an in-
put, but hey. To each their own.
Kyle Kim
Dont get suckered into, or start another argument
here now bud but amen; to each his own.
Kyle Kim
Thats all Ive been trying to say for I dunno, the
last 200 comments. And if you dont have respect for
other peoples values and beliefs, keep your mouth
shut.
Dragan Maricic
To each their own would apply if you didn’t depend
on the computer to track/record your music. Let
a weapon, a fucking cheese grater and maybe even a
back scratcher. Still an instrument even after all
it’s uses
Kyle Kim
Also still your opinion
Dragan Maricic
Des swooped in and saved the day.
Kyle Kim
And i value it as much as mine
Kyle Kim
Thanks for reiterating my point, Des
Kyle Kim
<3

should drop their instruments and become produc-
ers and djs but i think the ignorance or refusal of
such a fundamental shift in this art can have some
direct or indirect repercussions
Peter Li
thats jus my opinion tho
Jeremy N.
http://www.okayplayer.com/.../robert-glasper-dil-
lalude-3...
Robert Glasper - “Dillalude 3”
Robert Glasper provides us with a lush and mini-
mal tribute to J Dilla with a third installment of
his...
OKAYPLAYER.COM|BY OKAYPLAYER
this song was just below the conversation we’re
having. Thought I’d share the notion that one art
form (hip hop) can inform another (jazz) and vice
versa and that people played both “MPC’s” and “pi-
alone mixing and mastering.
Kyle Kim
Well then Dragan, Im sorry you feel that way, but
that is still your opinion. Musical instrument or
not, neither of us can justify its true meaning or
contribution to music. We define music ourselves, on
our own terms and that is why the Grammy’s creates
so much controversy; music is too subjective for
everybody to agree on.
Kyle Kim
To each his own.
Peter Li
i dont think these are “just opinions” i think it
important that dragan is trying to raise a valuable
point (fact) which i think should just be obvious
to most people by now, especially people concerned
with pursuing music. not to say that all musicieans

closed-minded soul you happen to be, because the
open minded just dont have time for you anymore.
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic i’ll take a crack at who you’re re-
ferring to.
23 hrs · Like · 2
Reuben Jude Corriea
Kyle Kim, no disrespect fam but you were easily the
most close minded on this thread.
23 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
Dragan Maricic
Peter, naw homie it’s not your opinion it’s fact.
23 hrs · Like
Marcel Canzona
Yeah man that sounded like a very back handed final
comment.
23 hrs · Like · 2
anos” on this laidback groove.
23 hrs · Like · 2
Kyle Kim
I think thats a good point Peter, which is why Im
glad all this happened. Theres new perspective to
be gained from in all directions
23 hrs · Unlike · 1
Kyle Kim
Maybe I just havent adapted to this new technologi-
cal shift, so thats why ive learned alot in todays
class.
Kyle Kim
I started off by addressing the issue of musi-
cal integrity as an artist towards another artist,
and somehow it led to this. So thank you to all
who expressed their opinion. Theres alot to be ad-
dressed and its important to note that everyone who
took part in this should take something out of it,
in regards to music..whatever that word means. If
you didnt, then I encourage you to remain the same

Desiree Das Gupta
I think anyone not seeking to understand a person’s
intent is doing a disservice to a conversation that
obviously was interesting and engaging and impor-
tant as musicians and music-lovers. I think it’s
important to note that kyle seeking to understand
is awesome and knocking him down after opening his
mind in his own personal progress is also a
disservice to what we’re all trying to accomplish.
Marcel Canzona
^ see kyle that doesn’t make you look too good be-
cause it proves our point that you were calling us
closed minded which kind of makes you closed mind-
ed no? No ones looking for a medal but there are
things that have to be FACTS. Such as definitions.
They just have to be or else you can’t ever have
discussions.
23 hrs · Edited · Like
Desiree Das Gupta
But kyle cracking on someone passive aggressively
Peter Li
Reuben idk i think during the racist segments there
were def some contestants.... again, my opinion lol
23 hrs · Like · 4
Kyle Kim
You guys want a medal or something for your
achievement? Are you that eager to make your opin-
ions into fact to win some petty facebook argu-
ment?? Take it and run, white flag, you win, whatev-
er the case. Its all opinion-based and I surrender.
The ignorant always win.
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
hahahahahahaha man... you need to re evaluate who
you’re calling ignorant.
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
please
23 hrs · Like · 1

Dragan Maricic
guy....
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
whatever makes you feel better
23 hrs · Like
Marcel Canzona
When discussions end with people just saying
“that’s your opinion” either you are arguing some-
thing that cannot be proven, like morals, or some-
one is unwilling to accept a fact. The only hook up
I ever had with this thread was the whole techno-
logical tool vs musical tool thing. They were being
categorized by “purpose” such as a guitar’s pur-
pose is to make music. However a computer’s purpose
isn’t to be “technological”. That’s the point I was
trying to make.
23 hrs · Like · 1
Peter Li
i agree w des. and who’s to say that they arent
isn’t cool either. Which is dangerous of me to say.
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
i at least wasn’t passive, let’s be real.
23 hrs · Like
Kyle Kim
There were no facts to this argument, thats why we
are stull sitting in this stalemate
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
yes there were, you’re denying them
23 hrs · Like
Kyle Kim
I can understand where you guys are coming from be-
cause ive allowed myself to see that point of view.
You not admitting that you have been closed minded
this whole time is being closed minded in itself
23 hrs · Like

Peter Li
well actually according to wat u just said i dont
think u get the point lmao....
23 hrs · Like · 1
Kyle Kim
Lol ok fine I surrender!!!!! I will hand deliever
anyone who has claim they have won this argument a
hand writte apology, if thats what it takes
23 hrs · Edited · Like
Kyle Kim
I just wanted to reiterate my point that my friend,
Marcel Canzona had so discreetly threw in
23 hrs · Like
Peter Li
but i would only re-iterate what has already been
said, but its pretty redundant @ this point, idk as
long as every1 keeps an open mind n keeps discov-
ering new ideas n accepting new things n respect-
ing ppl n being in love n making the world a better
closed minded themselves... i think kyle obvious-
ly has desire to gain new perspective, so it would
seem 2 me that objectives were met. not sure what
u want kyle 2 do? like do u want him 2 write u an
apology letter or something? i feel like a resolve
has already been made in the argument and now yall
r just arguing about the semantics of ur argument
which kinda seems petty 2 me
23 hrs · Like · 3
Kyle Kim
A computer is something entirely different from
a musical instrument, and thats what I always
thought. Its a tool for manipulating music that
people can use as a skill, but it requires no musi-
cal talent or ability to do so. That is all I was
saying
23 hrs · Like
Kyle Kim
It is petty, thats why Ive already tried countless
times to end it
23 hrs · Like

Dragan Maricic
i apologize for being brash but sometimes it’s the
only way to get a point across.
23 hrs · Like
Dragan Maricic
needless to say i’m happy to have encountered
like-minded individuals who share a common under-
standing of creativity.
23 hrs · Like · 1
Kyle Kim
And I could say the same thing after today, so
there. Now we can agree on something Dragan Maricic
23 hrs · Like
Marcel Canzona
For sure, glad this could come to an end without
anyone angry at each other. Want to make sure that
we can still look at each other in the eyes even if
we disagree. Hope I didn’t offend you either kyle.
23 hrs · Like · 1
place i think everything wil b ok ^.^
23 hrs · Like · 3
Marcel Canzona
-If its too petty for you you don’t have to reply
man. But I just do feel offended when I have friends
who never have picked up a physical instrument in
their lives but know more musical theory than me
from sitting at a computer in FL studio producing
beats all day.
23 hrs · Like · 2
Kyle Kim
You know what, and thats where I just dont get the
perspective...maybe just not yet. Its like a 50 yr
old woman just starting to understand the concept
of an app
23 hrs · Like
Kyle Kim
So im sorry if I offended you man. This doesnt need
to go any further
23 hrs · Like · 1

Peter Li
23 hrs · Like · 7
Nathan Pacheco
CULPRATE SHOULD HAVE WON!
18 hrs · Like

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