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Cross Distribution issues
Riku Voipio, Wookey 30.10.2013
www.linaro.org
ARM distribution support
www.linaro.org
● ARM support arriving to pretty much all major distributions
● But quality varies...
○ Vendor kernels
○ Only a few ARM system targets supported
○ Installation using tricks rather than installer
○ Not all software that is available is available for ARM users
○ Not all ARM optimizations enabled in software
● Complaints about ARM
○ slow ARM builders
○ ARM system diversity makes support hard
○ Hardware support gets abandoned
● Any other pain points?
ARM distribution support
www.linaro.org
● Actually more work for distributions
○ Device Tree Files remain grey area between firmware and OS
○ Since they are updated in kernels’ we need to ship them with kernel
● Recommendation: Install DTB to
○ /boot/dtb/$filename_as_in_kernel.dtb
○ This is also where u-boot/uefi/grub should read it from
○ Consider UEFI can only read from ‘EFI’ FAT partition
● Speaking of firmware
○ Avoid shipping u-boot/UEFI in distro (like you wouldn’t ship BIOS)
○ If you do, make updating bootloader a manual step
Work done: Device tree files
www.linaro.org
● Single zImage
● Now in Debian http:
//packages.debian.
org/sid/linux-image-
armmp
● Potential issues remain
● Enabling ARM errata
tricky
● Kernels might get too big
for some bootloaders
● Please start using
multiplatform kernels so
we can fix any issues
Work done: multiplatform kernels
www.linaro.org
● Vendor kernels in distributions is bad, mmkay?
○ users stuck in old releases
○ maintaining multiple kernels is extra work
○ please work instead on mainlining stuff
● Bad news
○ Graphics, 3d support bad and proprietary
○ Power management flaky
○ HW Vendors give up supporting old cpu’s early
● Good news
○ Server-like systems (nas..) getting supported well
■ 5 years of support of IOP32x based thecus n2100 nas in Debian using
mainline kernels - community support is possible
○ Supporting kernels for virtual machines (kvm, xen) easy - do so!
● Which boards would your distribution like Linaro to work on mainlining?
Mainline support of boards
www.linaro.org
● No open GPU drivers from vendors
○ Pressure needed on all fronts
○ Redistributable binary drivers only from nvidia so far!
● Reverse engineering projects
○ Done on free time so slow progress
○ Qualcomm adreno drivers developed furthest
○ Mali-200/Mali-400 Next
● Improving llvmpipe/mesa important for now
○ http://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html
● Standardizing location for proprietary opengl drivers?
State of GPU drivers
www.linaro.org
● Almost feature complete, but can be optimized more
○ Has your distribution enabled OpenSSL optimizations?
■ Fedora yes, debian only recently, opensuse no
○ Mesa renderer use llvmpipe?
○ Many other places
● Missing bits
○ Mono, Haskell (ghci), …
○ Java is zero-port only
ARMv7 aka Aarch32 userland
www.linaro.org
● Above distros have bootstrapped and support Aarch64 now
● From Bootstrapping to deploying
○ Core infrastructure from gcc to LAMP “pretty much done”
○ New bits ported all the time, recent ports include klibc, Java, Qemu,
kvm and xen
○ Most GNU/Linux software has little problems porting to Aarch64
○ Hardest bits are esoteric programming languages and JIT code
generators.
ARMv8 aka Aarch64
www.linaro.org
● Expand the list above
● From Bootstrapping to deploying
○ We still need a lot of software ported
○ https://launchpad.net/linaro-aarch64
○ bigger porting jobs need a card and approval: Linaro ARMv8
Card
○ Optimization work
○ We need your input on what to port next!
ARMv8 aka Aarch64 future
www.linaro.org
● We want to avoid pointless diversity
● Linker path bikeshed, history now?
○ armhf: /lib/ld-linux-armhf.so.3
○ aarch64: /lib/ld-linux-aarch64.so.1
○ same linker path for big endian systems!
● What else do we need to agree on?
○ boot file location (/boot/dtb) ?
○ interface between OS and firmware?
○ opengl / opengl es libraries?
○ Anything else?
Cross-Distro standardization effort
More about Linaro: http://www.linaro.org/about/
More about Linaro engineering: http://www.linaro.org/engineering/
How to join: http://www.linaro.org/about/how-to-join
Linaro members: www.linaro.org/members
connect.linaro.org

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LCU13: Cross distro collaboration

  • 1. Cross Distribution issues Riku Voipio, Wookey 30.10.2013
  • 3. www.linaro.org ● ARM support arriving to pretty much all major distributions ● But quality varies... ○ Vendor kernels ○ Only a few ARM system targets supported ○ Installation using tricks rather than installer ○ Not all software that is available is available for ARM users ○ Not all ARM optimizations enabled in software ● Complaints about ARM ○ slow ARM builders ○ ARM system diversity makes support hard ○ Hardware support gets abandoned ● Any other pain points? ARM distribution support
  • 4. www.linaro.org ● Actually more work for distributions ○ Device Tree Files remain grey area between firmware and OS ○ Since they are updated in kernels’ we need to ship them with kernel ● Recommendation: Install DTB to ○ /boot/dtb/$filename_as_in_kernel.dtb ○ This is also where u-boot/uefi/grub should read it from ○ Consider UEFI can only read from ‘EFI’ FAT partition ● Speaking of firmware ○ Avoid shipping u-boot/UEFI in distro (like you wouldn’t ship BIOS) ○ If you do, make updating bootloader a manual step Work done: Device tree files
  • 5. www.linaro.org ● Single zImage ● Now in Debian http: //packages.debian. org/sid/linux-image- armmp ● Potential issues remain ● Enabling ARM errata tricky ● Kernels might get too big for some bootloaders ● Please start using multiplatform kernels so we can fix any issues Work done: multiplatform kernels
  • 6. www.linaro.org ● Vendor kernels in distributions is bad, mmkay? ○ users stuck in old releases ○ maintaining multiple kernels is extra work ○ please work instead on mainlining stuff ● Bad news ○ Graphics, 3d support bad and proprietary ○ Power management flaky ○ HW Vendors give up supporting old cpu’s early ● Good news ○ Server-like systems (nas..) getting supported well ■ 5 years of support of IOP32x based thecus n2100 nas in Debian using mainline kernels - community support is possible ○ Supporting kernels for virtual machines (kvm, xen) easy - do so! ● Which boards would your distribution like Linaro to work on mainlining? Mainline support of boards
  • 7. www.linaro.org ● No open GPU drivers from vendors ○ Pressure needed on all fronts ○ Redistributable binary drivers only from nvidia so far! ● Reverse engineering projects ○ Done on free time so slow progress ○ Qualcomm adreno drivers developed furthest ○ Mali-200/Mali-400 Next ● Improving llvmpipe/mesa important for now ○ http://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html ● Standardizing location for proprietary opengl drivers? State of GPU drivers
  • 8. www.linaro.org ● Almost feature complete, but can be optimized more ○ Has your distribution enabled OpenSSL optimizations? ■ Fedora yes, debian only recently, opensuse no ○ Mesa renderer use llvmpipe? ○ Many other places ● Missing bits ○ Mono, Haskell (ghci), … ○ Java is zero-port only ARMv7 aka Aarch32 userland
  • 9. www.linaro.org ● Above distros have bootstrapped and support Aarch64 now ● From Bootstrapping to deploying ○ Core infrastructure from gcc to LAMP “pretty much done” ○ New bits ported all the time, recent ports include klibc, Java, Qemu, kvm and xen ○ Most GNU/Linux software has little problems porting to Aarch64 ○ Hardest bits are esoteric programming languages and JIT code generators. ARMv8 aka Aarch64
  • 10. www.linaro.org ● Expand the list above ● From Bootstrapping to deploying ○ We still need a lot of software ported ○ https://launchpad.net/linaro-aarch64 ○ bigger porting jobs need a card and approval: Linaro ARMv8 Card ○ Optimization work ○ We need your input on what to port next! ARMv8 aka Aarch64 future
  • 11. www.linaro.org ● We want to avoid pointless diversity ● Linker path bikeshed, history now? ○ armhf: /lib/ld-linux-armhf.so.3 ○ aarch64: /lib/ld-linux-aarch64.so.1 ○ same linker path for big endian systems! ● What else do we need to agree on? ○ boot file location (/boot/dtb) ? ○ interface between OS and firmware? ○ opengl / opengl es libraries? ○ Anything else? Cross-Distro standardization effort
  • 12. More about Linaro: http://www.linaro.org/about/ More about Linaro engineering: http://www.linaro.org/engineering/ How to join: http://www.linaro.org/about/how-to-join Linaro members: www.linaro.org/members connect.linaro.org