A massive discussion on csio about syrian war

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Thomas J. Miller, CLM, CSSMBB Chairman of Board Centre For Study of Intelligence Operations Director of Intelligence at GLOBAL HEAVYLIFT
HOLDINGS, INC
25 days ago
Russia's intervention in Syria must be stopped
What? They are doing the Dirty Work We Can't Deliver on....
Russia's intervention in Syria must be stopped
newsnow.co.uk•Russia may be trying to bolster its position as a major power broker, but the consequences for the Syrian people will be disastrous.
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Thomas J. Miller, CLM, CSSMBB, Christina Kitova, CRM, Mohammad Hafeez, +81 like this
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Elena Velasco
It won't be though...
25 days ago
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David X Herrera
We are too busy looking the other way while children get abused in Afghanistan. Can't get our hands dirty. Wait until after the elections.
25 days ago
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Elena Velasco
D. you are so right! ...
25 days ago
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Christina Kitova, CRM
Glad you posted this article. uk media is at times one sided. The author of the article supports turkish opposition and he in the past urged some to follow some
un resolutions that would resurrect the cold war with Russia and low and behold it is fully active again. Correspondents have agendas too. I fully agree with
you Tom
25 days ago
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raffaella vitulano
Well said, Tom.
24 days ago
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Thomas J. Miller, CLM, CSSMBB
The United States is Passive Aggressive...No They won't stick their toes in But when some else comes plunging into the swimlane oh boy all hell breaks loose, we
can't take this...We need to Go Home....
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
I support the Russian intervention, our alleged allies in the Gulf States plus KSA and Turkey grew ISIS and now we are supposed to step in and curtail ISIS,
AQ and overthrow Assad. He is a monster and a war criminal but the Syrian opposition is just as bad. Let Russia stabilize a particular area to prevent
genocide against the alawites -Shiites. It is obvious that folks who want us to intervene know little about how ISIS was funded and resupplied and supported.
There would be no trustworthy partner in the region besides the Kurds whom we have betrayed. I am not for sending in Americans to fight in this quagmire.
Let Russia try... They have lots of Russians fighting with AQ, AN, ISIS... it will give them a chance to eliminate terrorists before they go back to Russia. Those
Hawks who feel so strongly.. go over and volunteer.
24 days ago
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The ones who are suggesting usa and go and fight are the ones who have personal agendas and like iraq they wont get upper hand in oil anyways. Also
opposition supporters. There always someone profiting of wars too. Plus current administration skewed views. Plus being on opposite sides of russia in syria it
would be mass casualties.
24 days ago

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ME TOO Hurray for Russia!
Peter Kassebaum I support the Russian intervention
24 days ago
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Me three:)
24 days ago
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James Craven
What I do not get is given that the carnage in the ME threatens the whole global economy and stability, why would the Russians also not have interests in the
region no less than those professed by the U.S. and if so, why would they be expected to sit by and watch the impotence of the West and the allies to step-up and
stop this carnage right now? Does anyone not get it yet? This American Exceptionalism this hubris, this sending the arsonists of a fire to lead the fire brigade,
say who can join in and not, this appealing to allies to step-up when they see the carnage left in Iraq after "Mission Accomplished" as well as in Afghanistan,
when they read the Brzezinski interview, the rest of the world is not buying it any more, they do not see "exceptional" performance only failures and
blowbacks, and why would any nation with strategic interests in the region sit by and just watch and leave to the arsonist how to put out the fires?
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
They will work towards partition. News is leaking already about a common goal being acknowledged between Russia and the US. The only ones angry will be
Turkey, KSA and the Gulf States. They funded the extremists and now will see them forced out. They wanted the USA to bleed for them. Assad will be gone.
What about the Kurds? I hope they are not thrown overboard... But fear the worst. Only Rand Paul seemed to understand this region. I am not a supporter
but wonder about the level of knowledge of those candidates who wanted us to go in... they don't appear to have the knowledge that should be required.
24 days ago
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Yes the common goal is there but i keep reading usa still saying assad to go that is where russia wont compromise

24 days ago
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Vic Ricasio
just let him drop a few bombs and he'll watch the parade down from Lenin's Tomb as the hero that saved Christendom. Smart tactician!
24 days ago
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James Craven
What I do not get is that Assad, along with Qhadaffy, and all the nation-states on the "7-in-5" list that was read to General Clark around Sept 20, 2011, of a
scheme to take them out, were among the 52 nation-states that ran black sites and prison-torture chambers, and/or in the case of Iran, and China, not on the
list for obvious reasons, worked in covert CT programs with U.S. SOF forces and CIA, against AQ, so they were trusted with state secrets kept deep and dark
from the American people and Congress in whose name they were done because our own laws and discovery of our own involved in the dirty work would cause
the massive blowback it has
24 days ago
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James Craven
Obama ran his mouth and drew a red line on CW, goes to Congress for an authorization to use force and does not get it, Putin throws a line out and Obama
grabs it, Assad agrees to get rid of CW and does so by US accounts, those CW would be in the hands of ISIS if they had not put down this Cold War mentality
along with all those failed analysts that cloned and spread it. In his Book The Spy Masters, recommended highly by John MacGaffin III former DDCS, Grey
gives numerous examples of ops that went south, and whole campaigns as well not due to failure at the ground-truth and operator levels, but in analyses that
were pure fantasy, pure ideology and caricatures of the enemy, and no serious HUMINT or ability to get into the heads of the targets for real intentions and
capabilities as well as real ground-truth facts not abstract scenarios.
24 days ago
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James Craven
When I went into the Army 13 days after my 17th birthday, I had no idea, none, what, if I made it through boot camp (in those days 20 to 30% did not make it
and/or went through retrain) what the Army had planned for me. I had no idea what MOS they had planned, that I had already been given an interim Secret
clearance pending making it through boot camp, nor that where they were sending me, FT Gordon Ga. in Augusta Ga, the heartland of the segregated South
and proud of it, a highly classified place where the Cold War paradigm was gospel and no deviations allowed. Yet even as a 17 year old, because of how I was
raised, I wondered what country I was in or fighting for with segregation all around us. And I wondered, if I wonder about what I am being fed about
American Democracy when I see anti-democracy and celebration of slavery all around me, then what about THEM on the other side? Are THEY not people
like me? Are they not products of their own special lives with their own stories? What do they feel if they know their own government is selling lies and not
allowing itself to be looked at and examined, and doubles-down when caught in lies?
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Obama discovered that our allies in the region were the ones supporting AN, AQ, and ISIS. He also learned that those groups as well as the Assad government
were using Chem weapons and still are. He wisely stopped us from putting US boots on the ground. I want a leader who can adjust and not send folks over the
top to die for nothing. Say what you want about the red line but other info altered his decision. The entire world knows about the Gulf States, KSA, and Turkey
and how they used the above groups to try to get rid of Assad and the Alawites. However, they are great customers for our hardware and we in turn love their
oil. Iran is not our friend not Hezbollah or Assad. How would you keep troops safe in such a snake pit?
24 days ago
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James Craven
Peter, I agree with what you are saying. But in all of this, where is the accountability and responsibility of the USG? We keep pointing fingers and saying to old
allies you betrayed us, but we had a hand in the creation of ISIS and AQ, as well as in nurturing the Taliban when they were anti-Soviet (and it turned out we
were the liars not them as to what caused the Soviet invasion) and we keep refusing to get solid analysis of mind-sets and intentions, what HUMINT is all about,
and what the other platforms and forms of INT are driven by, and so Putin is a demon, a demi-Czar, etc but do not try to step inside his head, and what we
would ourselves likely do or what mutual interests we might have, but with General Clark's revelations in 2007, a bit late, this is all a fraud, this is the ugly and
predicted blowback of the "5 in 7" scheme read to General Clark a few days after 9-11. This is no different than the Gleiwitz false-flag to create pretexts for
invasion of Poland which, by the way, Hitler had been assured would not draw the allies into war just as his previous actions in Austria, Czechoslovakia and
other places had not.
24 days ago
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SAVVAS IOANNOU
Syria is none of Putins business.
24 days ago
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SAVVAS IOANNOU
I read that it's not the government's of Saudi Arabia etc that are supporting AN, AQ and IS but corrupt mega rich individuals who reside on those countries.
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Both. They wanted to defeat Shiite theology, Assad and Iran and to create a Sunni realm. The underlying conflict is Shiite vs Sunni when you push aside the fog
and smoke. Which side ends up with a strategic position after the dust settles.
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
James, I agree that the neocons and bush got us into the swamp under false pretenses and that much earlier we never should have forced the USSR out of
Afghanistan because it then became our burden. A crazy invasion of Iraq under Bush Jr. that began to tip the scales and our support of every dictatorial Arab
regime as long as we had access to oil and they bought our mil hardware. A bad bargain for the masses in the Arab world. However, the Europeans did nothing
to change the world order and now their seeds are also coming home to roost.
24 days ago
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SAVVAS IOANNOU
I agree with you Peter.
24 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
I wish this mess had not happened. All this needless suffering.
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
You can wish away things in dreams not reality, unidimensional leadership in a a world that is not unidimensional in economic, political and spiritual sectors as
I wrote in 1986 will lead to chaos, unrest and war unless those on positions of power on these sectors adapts to dimensional acceptance. Communist, socialist
and religious theocracies have refused this, so here we are and it ain't gonna get prettier unless they adapt.
24 days ago
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James Craven
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Office_of_Special_Plans This says it all: mens rea, intent to use 9-11 as a cover and pretext to create derivative pretexts,
to launch and engineer mass acceptance of a "cakewalk" scheme to take out 7 regimes in 5 years starting with Iraq. That is what we hanged a bunch of Nazis
and some Japanese fascists for.https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/imperial-hubris-treachery-treason-blowbacks-james-craven?trk=mp-reader-
card and https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/just-war-interrelated-predicates-precedents-nuremberg-james-craven?trk=mp-reader-card This was designed as a
firewall between various agencies of the IC in case some freak who had read the Constitution, his or her oath taken, as well as driven by duty and good
tradecraft, reported it was bullshit of any notion of some alliance between Saddam and Osama on 9-11 or anything else. Or that if any WMDs in Iraq they
came from the U.S. and allies but reports from inspectors say no.
24 days ago
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Ned Farhat
Peter and James, you are both spot on �
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
James, sorry to tell you, you are not close to truth. And I am on record with fact not opinions of 911.
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
Yes much still held in quiet. Reasons u should understand if you don't want WWIII to grow beyond what already has. Leadership doesn't represent people's in
countries of religious theocracies, communist no socialist. Their tops care about lifestyle and money much more than those in democracy and capitalism. Even
though it's sold differently
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
If you want to know the truth. Happy to inform. But please be ready to deprogrammed yourself as the truth does this to those who are anti something instead
of actual looking for truth.
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
I was brought in, in May 2001. It doesn't happen by accident my friends. WaitZero, is not a love affair. No we could not stop what happened, why, you don't
want the truth so don't ask.
24 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, Thanks for your responses and I guess I do understand what you mean in your comments or what truth I am not close to. I do not have a 9-11 theory
only fact that a proper NTSB investigation mandated by law was not done. But any facts or even opinion based on experience or sources cited, related to
intelligence operations and policies would be welcomed. I am very open to all sorts of theories but I am most interested in facts that can be checked and
triangulated with other facts and my own theories are that theory, but come from facts rather than driving what facts I look for or ignore.
24 days ago
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Scott Shields
James, start with getting the facts on the Baltimore train fire in July 2001. All the facts. It will take you some time but it's a good start.
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, thanks and I will check. In my days, and even now, I have been down many deep and dark rabbit holes. We also have a saying "point the stranger where
to look, do not tell him what to see." Good for you.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
James, let me know if you get stuck. But give it a good look prior.
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Back to the topic.. here's more detailed information about the failure of our effort to train and supply some of the Syrian opposition. It illustrates that the
group that was trained... handed over their equipment and trucks, some weapons along with ammo to a branch of AQ... A.N. F. . So much for the intel supplied
by our allies in the region. Sucks... big time.http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34368073
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
The point of my posting this BBC article was to illustrate that the Russians are perhaps better informed who the players are than we are in some instances. Let
them deal with the snake pit, in that they have the contacts which it is obvious that we don't have reliable information. I mention our allies in the region... KSA,
Turkey, Gulf States... obviously they either did not have reliable information or sandbagged our efforts to make sure that they control what is going on ...
within Syria.
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
The point of my posting this BBC article was to illustrate that the Russians are perhaps better informed who the players are than we are in some instances. Let
them deal with the snake pit, in that they have the contacts which it is obvious that we don't have reliable information. I mention our allies in the region... KSA,
Turkey, Gulf States... obviously they either did not have reliable information or sandbagged our efforts to make sure that they control what is going on ...
within Syria.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
We informed there are only a handful of us who know who to deal with. This admin plays by those of similar political associating in intel. Trust me on that.
And I am not saying those who are of such in Intel are not doing their best but the best are ignored.
23 days ago
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Ned Farhat

Peter I think the crux of the issue is that there is no legitimate alternative to Assad, love him or hate him he was the recognised government. Supporting/arming
anyone else is just funding rebel groups who will wreak havoc.
If we can't make the situation any better, let's at least stop making it worse.
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, a three year NTSB investigation, what that train was carrying, from where to where, owned by whom and purchased and to be used by whom for what
purposes, no cause of derailment found, highly explosive chemicals that produced fireball effects, July of 2011 to months before 9-11?
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
Which doesn't fit
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, from only a cursory examination, and I downloaded the NTSB report on it as I am very familiar with NTSB tradecraft and legal mandates as a pilot and
the son of a 747 captain who was involved in them and developing the analytical tradecraft in air investigations, but all of it does not add up. The nature of the
chemicals being transported, along the damages they caused, were and by whom were they licensed? who were the original manufactures and the supply chain
leading up to transport on the train? why such chemicals for what possible use? who was on the receiving end and what did they state as their intended purpose
and authority to purchase and use them? Why so close to 9-11? what about the allegations of controlled demolitions by credible engineers and firemen on the
scene? these are some of the issues that pop into my mind from only a cursory look at this Howard Street tunnel crisis that developed from it.
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, I looked at some of the effects of the derailment and crash and the civil affairs and scene control issues, along with the spread effects of the initial crash,
and I also know that Abel Danger was going on at the time, I need to look at the chemicals themselves, what are they used for or can be used for, where and by
whom have they been used before, what are the normal supply and demand chains for these chemicals, who picked the mode, routes and timing of the
transport and who could have known and how.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
Good job, however you missed the what doesn't fit.
23 days ago
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James Craven
Thanks Scott, I just got into this on a very superficial level. I did not know about this event and just a cursory look at it bothers me a lot. That they did not
come up with a cause of derailment and so much more. But I just note what questions immediately popped into my head, some of the same ones I had about
MH 370 that was carrying some unauthorized lithium batteries as well as 4 of 5 patent holders on a super secret device for radar suppression and stealthiness.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
Yes, you are just beginning. And it's a good start. As for flight 370, your inquiries are legitimate however, nothing to do with it.
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, I am one of those who has actually worked with conspiracy law in 18 USC and am working on one right now. I worked as a Senior Planning Analyst VI
with the Office of the Governor and Planning Board of the Government of Puerto Rico in the early 1980s. My job was to design, structure, and conduct
through recruited assistance, an analysis--census--of the underground economy of PR with respect to the econometrics and sociometrics of drugs, prostitution,
bolitos and tax evasion; the supply and demand chains, the power networks, command and control networks, and flows of funds out of the PR economy
through remittances and transfers of funds. It was at the ground-truth level and I recruited former prostitutes and drug addicts who were religious and in the
cause of getting others out thus avoiding many problems with snitches. They knew I was not a cop and never had been one, they knew I was not using them to
make my bones and get some promotion, they knew I wanted to help the victims get out as much as they did. I came to PR fresh, had to learn Spanish as I was
working the streets. I started with questions to facts to theory.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
Get some sleep it will take you a while but I see you have a very good mind for this. Add this to your thought process. Putin and I are similar in how we
attained top positions. Few know why he did and fewer know why I have.

23 days ago
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James Craven
Thanks Scott, I pointed out MH 370 only to illustrate how my thought and inquiry processes work; I have taught statistics and research methods at graduate
levels, I also have taught at Tsinghua University and the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, and am a veteran of the U.S. Army 1963 to 66, so my mind is
inductively trained as well as deductively trained. But I start with the basic questions from the gut, because experience has taken me there before, but I keep an
open mind at all times and at all times I am trying to refute my own provisional and forming assumptions and conclusions, narrowing down but at the same
time widening up the micro and the macro each informing the other. But this appears to be an important subject and tied-in to where we are today.
Thanks for this lead and rabbit hole to dive down into; I have been down others very deep and dark. Take care, Jim
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, This is what I think about corruption and duty to expose it and never be bought off,intimidated, bullied or threatened ever no matter what,no matter by
whom:https://jimcraven10.wordpress.com/2014/05/04/hush-money-and-sealed-settlements-to-cover-up-crimes-are-crimes-not-torts-no-need-to-cover-up-what-
is-clean-only-what-is-dirty/https://jimcraven10.wordpress.com/2012/12/19/attempts-to-report-felony-crimes-per-18-usc-4-28-usc-1361-exchanges-with-clark-
county-sheriff-gary-lucas/
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, one thing that pops out is "The train consisted of 60 cars. Car nos. 46 through 56 derailed in the Howard Street Tunnel at 3:08 PM, and became
disconnected from the first 45 cars. The train experienced an automatic emergency brake application resulting from the separation of the train, but the crew
didn't know that a derailment had taken place. Around 3:26 they moved the locomotives out of the tunnel.
Around 4 PM smoke was seen coming from a sewer near the intersection of Howard and Lombard Streets, and the fire department was notified. Later, smoke
emerged from the ends of the tunnel and from several manholes. Eventually it was found that one of the derailed tank cars, carrying tripropylene, had
ruptured and the escaping flammable liquid had caught fire. This fire also ignited paper and wood products in other cars. Another tank car ruptured releasing
2,554 US gallons (9,670 l) of hydrochloric acid. Around 6:15 a 40-inch cast iron water main above the tunnel burst due to deformation, eventually releasing
about 14,000,000 US gallons (53,000,000 l) of water. The fire burned for about 5 days.
Why the time spans between the derailment and the start of fires and why dispersed fires? Why did the train crews not have indications of derailment and
separation of cars and which came first?
23 days ago
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Scott Shields

All is public information, one should, if capable of interview those off the record who were on scene. I have a documentary filmmaker who has been asking me
to get everything on record. Maybe you should be host. In regards to your question of derailment or separation first, I think you know the answer to this. Offer
up to yourself an impact study on large explosion in the tunnel with what you already have during that time of day and effect. It can be a simple one. Knowing
traffic time of day events ect.....
23 days ago
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James Craven
Scott if this was an intended sabotage op, they picked the perfect spot for the derailment to do maximum possible damage inside the tunnel, where it would be
difficult to access, blind spot for radio transmissions, and initial blast contained but leading to massive effects outside the tunnel. If this was planned, my mind
goes to the working parts that have to come together to make it happen, or if an accident, then also what diverse screw-ups had to happen and all come
together; and then there is the context that this tunnel has had problems before, the highly dangerous nature of the chemicals transported and the crews having
nothing on their manifests except dangerous chemicals. There was either a whole lot of serial SNAFUs, FUBARs, CFs from many players, or this was a planned
operation to test weapons as well as civil defense readiness and response and if that, had to have a lot of working parts that had to come together with precision
like 9-11 with 4 separate ops with many moving parts, then coming together at coordinated times, even more working parts.
23 days ago
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Scott Shields
You thinking correct. Now it elimination 101 alongside new knowledge that will occur.
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
While you folks are talking about an older incident... Which is Worth discussing. I would like to point out that ...The Chinese have just docked its aircraft
carrier in Syria. Which illustrates that China, Russia, Iraqi government and Iran along with what is left of Assad's government have a larger plan to deal with
all the Syrian opposition. I would suggest that the original posting for this discussion has become far more important because of this multi party and Chinese
move. Allegedly, the Chinese are flying in the planes for the carrier and will have some on land and supposedly have brought 1,000 Chinese marines. This is a
game changer for the region and KSA, Gulf States, and Turkey ...all must be worried. KSA because it screwed Russia during the sanctions by dumping oil
which severely impacted the Russian economy. Maybe "catchup" is on the way. A rather important set of developments, involving many nations.
23 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Repost from somewhere else:
Elena Velasco

Well, here is how I see this: Russia being in Syria, is not new. They have had ship slips in Tartus for quite a few years, moved some wealthy citizens out around
the Chemical removal issue.
What became a problem is the US trying to overthrow Assad. Then the civil war ensued, then ISIS moves in. I believe that Shishani, well trained by the US,
and a former operative in Russia is hopefully who they are after. Russia knows this, and that there are many Chechen fighters in Syria fighting for ISIS as well
as on a couple other fronts.
These recruits, have probably been trained by the late Kadrov ... Since there is a strong presence in Syria by Chechen fighters, it would make sense to send in
Russian SPECCIAL OPS that are familiar with some of these Chechen's, plus they may have someone that they can turn over for good intel. Assad is losing
ground, Russia knows the Chechen's better than we do, training or not by the US. I bet he has a plan, he almost always does and bottom line ASSAD is his
FRIEND.
Here is some highlights:
Russia Supports Assad's war against civilians
http://www.chechencenter.info/n/42-world/2293-1.html
Some highlights about several groups originating from Chechen resistance and landing in Syria and the changes that are very recent:
http://www.chechensinsyria.com/?p=24140
Besides all of the Chechen internal movement, you have Kurds, and BN...oh boy...
Assad must have seen the horizon to a defeat from other forces outside of the Chechens and the Kurds, either by Intel or movement. . so, he called his loyal
friend Putin.
23 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Besides all of the Chechen internal movement, you have Kurds, and BN...oh boy...
Assad must have seen the horizon to a defeat from other forces outside of the Chechens and the Kurds, either by Intel or movement. . so, he called his loyal
friend Putin.
1. day ago
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Elena Velasco
Turkey and the surrounding states may have had carried some weight of this Russia intervention, however, not as much as the pure loyality Assad and Putin
have.
It is a game changer, for the surrounding states are not going to push Russia around nor Assad.
ssad will remain in power until the last man falls (Assad) Putin will see to it.
Plus, the neighborhood knows, Russia at one time had some missiles in Syria at earlier attempts to flip Assad,, so this will keep some adventurism
"CONTAINED" by some states.
1. day ago
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Elena Velasco
Correction many of the current Chechen fighters may have been trained by the now deceased: Dokka Umarov
1. day ago

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23 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Elena Velasco
Mr. Bosler, I feel a little different about Putin's desire to create a cold war era relationship intentionally. Here is what I see outside of Syria. as Putin's
relationship with the Assad,regime is inclusive of other events outside of their loyal friendship. Others interests include a strategic military outpost and now
business and resource interests with Turkey not to mention a nice get away for wealthy Russians....
The "COLDNESS" from Russia has risen from the ashes of several events that were western driven...the desire by the west to disrupt Russian control through
the "Maiden" revolt in Ukraine, as pricing of gas and Russian Gazprom "CONTROL" from via Ukraine to the EU was a problem is one great point, as the loss
of the South Stream and alternate line through the Black sea and to Turkey became the alternate plan, and thus the current events in Ukraine, and the
subsequent loss of Crimea, that led to western sanctions, thus the self defense of Russia in these instances. .
It is clear to me that these few events are significant and also have led Russia to seek long term relationships elsewhere, with especially China, as you know the
sanctions have had an effect, but truthfully have not had the anticipated affects aggragately the west was hoping for.
Therefore, as a result, coupled with China, the west has somewhat defaulted into a mechanism I refer to as a dual polarity system, as China, Russia have since
increased their common endeavors and initiatives exuding the west exponentially since the transpiring of some of the above events.
1. day ago
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23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
In addition...KSA, Gulf States have been funding the Syrian opposition as well as extremist Islamic movements inside Russia and the Central Asian Republics
and China. Lots of reasons why China and Russia have an interest. Take the fight to that region instead of fighting terrorists at home.
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Will Turkey quickly change its hostile position with the Kurds now that it might need NATO?
23 days ago
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Elena Velasco
"""Assad must have seen the horizon to a defeat from other forces outside of the Chechens and the Kurds, either by Intel or movement. . so, he called his loyal
friend Putin."""
AND PUTIN CALLED his loyal friend XI-China...
23 days ago
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James Craven
Hi Peter, Thanks for your response and I see your point and will continue the discussion elsewhere but this is an interesting problem and rabbit hole to dive
down into, and I am trying to use my responses to Scott to lay out how I attack a new problem about an issue or event that I knew nothing about and I suspect
Mr., Shields has a lot of information and sees a connection to many issues we are discussing,. I have added to discussions on China but thanks for your point to
keep it on track,.
23 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Elena...Assad is not important beyond what Russia, Iran, China want him to be. This is about those three governments and their projection of power in the
region. They have sent a clear message to KSA, Turkey and the Gulf States that a new Marshall is in town and that continued support for those extremist
Sunni groups is going to be costly. I suspect that this message is tied to the prior funding for Sunni extremists in China, and Russia as well as the former
republics. KSA should take note, and understand that they are in the Cross Hairs. Turkey will probably rethink its position now that it faces Russia and China.
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
I am glad to see China and Russia taking the fight to the terrorists. We have shed far too much of our blood in that entire region.
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
James, I always read your posts. Great stuff.
22 days ago
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James Craven
Remember also the Kurds are not a monolithic force and the Marxist side have been at war with the others and vice versa, along with the Turkish and US
Governments yet they are among the most determined fighters. Again, we wind up in alliance with those we previously covertly and overtly tried to eliminate--
USSR and China enemies then allies then enemies in WWII...
22 days ago
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James Craven
Remember also the Kurds are not a monolithic force and the Marxist side have been at war with the others and vice versa, along with the Turkish and US
Governments yet they are among the most determined fighters. Again, we wind up in alliance with those we previously covertly and overtly tried to eliminate--
USSR and China enemies then allies then enemies in WWII...
22 days ago
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James Craven Does Have His Shit Together...Can not say it any simpler....
22 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Peter, Turkey has to make some decisions no doubt with the Kurds and a few other issues. as Russia and China have already made their decisions, thus their
presence in Syria, which will motivate Turkey, as Russia cut the alternate SS deal with Turkey known as the Turkey stream you know Black sea, Greece to
Turkey, so, now Russia has more than just ISIS Chechens to take care of, he now has a pipeline security issue....
22 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Peter, Assad is Russia's loyal friend, and maybe a useless, costly one, but, the fact remains he is better for Russia and China than the alternate, at least right
now, not to mention a thorn in the wests side. as we have tried to flip him, yet he was re-elected...yet again,..just a little political punitive play....
22 days ago
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James Craven
Thanks Tom and Peter, my respect for both of you I hope is obvious in my posts. I do not even work my own site and come here almost exclusively because of
the fine work of Colleagues Tom, Agha, you Peter and others who want to make this a safe place for diverse ideas can be shared and tested with shared facts
and diverse reasoning and which facts are salient. This can be a place where some good and caring minds get together and offer that the mainstream media or
either parties refuse to offer: real substance based on real substance. Most of us took an oath to the U.S. Constitution and have not been relieved of our duties.
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
I would be wondering about my oil infrastructure and its vulnerabilities if I lived in KSA or the Gulf States. "Catchup" for funding Sunni extremism and
screwing the Russian economy while sanctions are in place ... might be on the way. Yes, I know about the Kurd vs Kurd wars ... I also comprehend why
communism or Marxist ideology was attractive to some of them. It appeals to those without power.. and no institutionalized way to access it. My concern is that
there is more knowledge about this region within our linked in group than the current crop of presidential candidates for both the Dems and GOP . Maybe that
is a little extreme but that is my perception and it is worrisome to say the least.
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
Very true, I took that oath several times.
22 days ago
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James Craven
I agree with you Peter. Look at the line-ups in both parties; that is why the latest Pew polls show over 50% of Americans neither identify themselves as
Democrats or Republicans. It is an embarrassment and worse not only the money-fueled pre-election process, but what gets produced as a menu of "choice."
You know it is weird, when I am in Europe or other places, and some people say to me "You are not like other Americans", or "Americans are...." I sound like
someone from the Tea Party telling them about Americans rising up with little money of their own donating to causes far away that they will never gain
materially from supporting or how Americans will rise up to help neighbors who have been flooded or houses burned down by those whose houses weren't.
Stereotypes are that no matter by whom or against whom; they divide, they marginalize and demonize, they target as they are intended.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields

That's why I formed the demtarian commitment. Yes this group has much more knowledge and more importantly the willingness to act upon it. This admin
would rather inform Hollywood friends and have sequel movie made such as 3 Days Of The Condor/25 years later, on false facts. I have no problem with movie
as such but not if they don't want the truth alongside their amusement fiction necassary for movie making.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
I am very surprised I have not been contacted by a film producer. We asked Cohen the producer of jimmy kimball show to have me announce my candidacy on
his show. His had the ok and then someone pulled plug. Hilary camp I believe. They have huge influence going all the way back to wag the dog. One of OBLs
main reasons for his vengeance beyond his slower planning.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
I am not sure when demos lost their ethics and became such unidimensional owner players that they fought for years against. I guess excessive lifestyle from
government association and power doesn't divide by party. Go Bernie and Go Trump, until I enter.
22 days ago
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Being bought by lobbyists would be one.
22 days ago
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I just read that Bloomberg is considering running as an independent
22 days ago
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Chris Gerding
I like Scott's comment above, although Bernie and Trump are only placeholders until our real two non- choices emerge. I also have lively debates with Russian
friends that Im starting to lose these days. One recently said that everywhere the US sticks its nose ends up a war torn mess. This guy stopped me dead with my

response because he is obviously correct. Doesnt mean Russia would do any differently to Syria than they did to Chechnya... but we have no room to talk. Lets
see what non- choice we are offered a year from November and if it even matters.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
If I recall Russia seems to be the most expansionist nation the last century not America. Problem with America sticking nose in it leaves before it can
accomplish.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
With that said all administrations of past including Clinton needed to listen to us.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
If someone or a few from this group wanted to open a demtarian superpac, it might get around 5 billion put into it.
22 days ago
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James Craven
The Democratic Party, like the Republican Party both have kill switches against the likes of Trump in their party of Bernie, or in the past McGovern, or
McCarthy, or Dean, 1) Stacking primaries clustering them so someone with no upfront money is tough; 2) Withdrawal of grunt workers and staff support from
the RNC or DNC; 3) Super-delegates not bound to votes of selected or elected delegates and are 50% of the total delegate votes; 4) Run more candidates in
primaries like the targeted insurgent to split and draw votes away; 5) presidential debates used to be controlled by the League of Women voters now by the so-
called official sounding Commission on Presidential Debates which is made up of the RNC and DNC that demanded and got: power to determine who is eligible
to participate; who is allowed to ask questions, what questions in what formats; how many debates and where and when; forms and levels of public
participation and response; access by media and selection of media and media correspondents to moderate and participate;
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
We have not had real debates... if we did.. Most candidates would be unmasked. They would be chewed up and spit out in a Parliamentary system which
requires a higher degree of being able to communicate. Some Americans think being loud is a substitute for expertise. God help us with that world view.
Canada will soon build a border to keep us out!
22 days ago
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James Craven
Hi Peter, I agree with you completely; imagine a 4 hour free style, with no pre-selection of questioners, and not all from the press, wired room so anyone can go
to internet to produce in real time documents and evidence of lies and blatant ignorance,. But I am also Canadian as well as American, and Blackfoot,and I
have to say that although reading and literacy appears to be at least in the open more highly valued as a raw generalization only, Canadians have their own
willful blindness, their own sleazy politicians that trade on nativism, crude populism, racism, religion, fear and the usual stuff as here; they do it more with a
smug smile and eh? rather than more bombastic and in your face. But even the idea of debates, and bombastic braggadocio, narcissism, basic logical fallacies,
absurd promises, cheap theatrics, and the opposite of most of the rest of the world where the opposites of modesty, no self-credentialing let others and your
work speak for you; focus on team and team accomplishment, which it is, rather than on individual super stars etc
22 days ago
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James Craven
Hi Peter, I agree with you completely; imagine a 4 hour free style, with no pre-selection of questioners, and not all from the press, wired room so anyone can go
to internet to produce in real time documents and evidence of lies and blatant ignorance,. But I am also Canadian as well as American, and Blackfoot,and I
have to say that although reading and literacy appears to be at least in the open more highly valued as a raw generalization only, Canadians have their own
willful blindness, their own sleazy politicians that trade on nativism, crude populism, racism, religion, fear and the usual stuff as here; they do it more with a
smug smile and eh? rather than more bombastic and in your face. But even the idea of debates, and bombastic braggadocio, narcissism, basic logical fallacies,
absurd promises, cheap theatrics, and the opposite of most of the rest of the world where the opposites of modesty, no self-credentialing let others and your
work speak for you; focus on team and team accomplishment, which it is, rather than on individual super stars etc
22 days ago
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Peter Kassebaum
I lived and worked in Nova Scotia in the late sixties. Canada used the Emergency War Powers Act when we lived there. Scary time! However, news is still semi
valued there and an amazing number of folks receive a decent education. Yes, I agree that it still has ethnocentricity but not in the percentages that seem to
have become visible in the US. In 2000, we went back and were disturbed by the attacks on Native fishing boats in the Maritimes after Canada affirmed
commercial fishing rights were part of the treaties. The RCMP said they did not know who the violent criminals were yet you could read the boat registration
numbers ... time to work on dinner ... I will be gone from the group for about a day.
22 days ago
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I spent a lot of time in canada. I think every country has its fair share of everything. Depending the area of canada and demographics change. Harper does a
good job as far as the economy is concerned. Also late Jim Flajerty did a lot of good for canada as far as the deficit is concerned. A lot of canadian issues had to
do with trudeau.
22 days ago
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Peter, didnt know you were in nova scotia. The scenery is beautiful up there. It has its share of problems too. North Preston would be one of the areas.
22 days ago
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James Craven
Thanks Peter, I too was in Canada during Emergency Measures and remember it vividly. I don't know how it was out East except for some of the First Nations
like the Mohawk and Mik'Maaw but out West, it varied; I lived in the second largest French-speaking community outside of Quebec, and there it was intense;
it was a major crime to rearrange the letters Q and L and F even in speech.
Have a good day off. By the way Peter, if I or some others can call many Rezes and in 15 minutes and speak to Elders and find out who is selling dope, how
much, where from, who committed suicide, who is missing, then what are the RCMP doing on the Rezes?
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
"The point of my posting this BBC article was to illustrate that the Russians are perhaps better informed who the players are than we are in some instances."
Peter, normally I would share your enthusiasm. "The more - the merrier!", right?
Unfortunately, Russians have 2-part Intent that motivates their sudden involvement in Syria:
1. Distract the rest of the world(and Russian population no less) from Donbas and Crimea problem. I have witnessed complete information vacuum on War in
Ukraine in the Russian media. Just couple weeks ago, I would regularly read about crucified and eaten Donbass youth by Ukrainian "fascist"(quite of
imagination). Today even LifeNews, one of the top propaganda channels of Kremlin TV, doesn't even mention Ukraine.
1. Protection of Assad. Russians are afraid that they will lose their only Mediterranean port in Tartus if Assad will be overran by rebels. Therefore they will
attack any rebels, ISIS AND non-ISIS, to protect their proxy. Since Damascus is threaten by non-ISIS rebels the most - that is who will receive Russian air
strikes.
Off course, Americans see these underlying dynamics of Russians. This is why they would allow Russia to join coalition, but only on the conditions of Assad's
removal.
As for Russian help, chances that Russians will commit their ground troops(BOG) are minimal to no existent. War in Donbass was sold to Russian population
as a "protection of Russian speakers". However, they know well that they will not be able to justify body bags streaming from Syria. The memory of Soviet

catastrophe in Afghanistan is still alive and vivid.
The hesitation about Syria is not only limited to top brass. We already see some of Russian soldiers backing up from orders to
Syria.http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/23/russian-soldiers-don-t-send-me-to-syria.html
We really don't have much to gain from Russians being in Syria, unless they will limit their strikes to attacks against ISIS just like our coalition has been doing
for a year now. But thats not why they are there...
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Oh, good ol Russia)))
22 days ago
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Rick Yerby
Let me get this straight , we have to remove an evil dictator. After all it worked so well in Iraq and Libya. I think the definition of insanity is to do the same
thing over and over expecting a different result.
22 days ago
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I like Einstein's definition very true Rick Yerby
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Discussion started from a loaded question about Russian intervention assuming negative connotations, so it is better to go back a little. Let's verify the facts
first:
1. Syrian government agrees with Russian military presence and participation in fighting enemies of the legit government. So it is not "intervention" nor
"invasion".
1. Other countries provide training and other military support to armed "democrats" fighting the legit government of Syria. Syrian government does not agree
with that, therefore in is a clear case of intervention from those countries.
1. Nobody would claim that those "democratic fighters" of different types of opposition are all Syrians fighting for democracy, so we cannot even claim that it
is a civil war.

1. Is the legit government good or bad, it is irrelevant. No country would tolerate some foreigners to decide what is good and what is bad. "Regime change" is a
new invention of politicians to cover ol' good interventions for economic or political gains (examples are well known). It is used against some countries when
necessary and no country is safe from that (we all know next countries in line).
Let's use the facts and logic before making conclusions.
22 days ago
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Scott Shields
Iran and Syria have funded foreign fighters in many lands for years. All that is happening is its coming home to roost. Maybe they should not be so engaged in
other countries affairs over the years. Now they cry foul. Russia knows this very well. As they have been sugar daddy in weapon sales as America is sugar
daddy to Sunnis. Both of us should wake up.
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Vladimir,
Do you believe that Syrian government really has authority over the areas that they lost? Is there a historical precedent that we can thread this to?
"No country would tolerate some foreigners to decide what is good and what is bad". It seems to me that most of Assad's problems are within Syria.
It is also seems to me that Assad has really been cornered - therefore Russians are here to help him and save their Tartus Naval base.
22 days ago
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Rick Yerby
These democratic fighters that we armed became ISIS. Since the bad dictators have been deposed their countries became shit holes and created a refugee crisis.
It is time to face the fact that some people are not ready for democracy. For these people a dictator prepared to commit murder to keep order may be the best
they can hope for.
22 days ago
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raffaella vitulano
Well said, Rick!
22 days ago
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I agree Vladimir. Russia didnt invade syria beinf assad ally it is is helping assad to restore his control and get rid of isis
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
@ Scott Shields
Iran and Syria have funded foreign fighters in many lands for years... Maybe they should not be so engaged in other countries affairs over the years....
$$$$
Other countries did the same for many years. If we start bombing all those countries in revenge, maybe just Greenland will remain intact. Good idea - I have to
check real estate prices there.
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Yuriy,
It looks like in your view the government of the occupied territory loses its authority over the lost area forever and it must be accepted immediately without
attempts to take it back. It is a very novel view and actually contradicts the international law (or whatever left of it).
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Vladimir, "Yuriy, your view the government of the occupied territory loses its authority over the lost area forever and it must be accepted immediately without
attempts to take it back. It is a very novel view and actually contradicts the international law"
So how do you feel about Ukrainian border being continuously violated in Donbass and Crimea by Russia? Double standard, no?
22 days ago
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Lets keep this topic on track about Russia and syria. Ukraine is very separate issue. I agree Vladimir about international law. As far as the tartus is concerned
it is been around since soviet era from 1960s, when Russia was strengthening its positions during the cold war. Soviets had strong ties to Lybia and were
providing aid during 70s. When gadhafi was taken out it was strategic but didn't work. After collapse of soviet union Russia forgave close to 10 billion dollars
debt that Syria owed Russia. The base was dormant for awhile and since west decided to interfere during civil war in Syria and arming opposition in 2012

Russia started build up of equipment at tartus. Also with isis seeing weakness in syria decided to want take over and now Russia is in to make sure assad
maintains the power. Also that is fueled by this administration escalating cold war. As russia did nothing when usa went into Libya
22 days ago
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James Craven
Scott, you know also that there is not one thing we have accused others of and who were guilty as charged that the U.S. was not also doing, and more with more
sophisticated capabilities, and that each side claims it is in response to prior acts and policies of the other. So now we have to get into some history, and get into
a world that the U.S.public, the U.S. Congress, and the mandates of the U.S. Constitution knew and know nothing about, never debated, never authorized, all
under the banner of national security and the need to save lives in service of causes and forces you cannot know about but trust us, we have a plan to keep you
safe--get back to the NAASCAR and Jerry Springer Show.
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Dear Christina, "now Russia is in to make sure assad maintains the power". This is my point exactly... They are just interested in keeping their proxy(Assad) in
the office. They are not interested in fighting against ISIS otherwise they would have joined US-led coalition in 2013.
"This administration escalating cold war" - If you think that Obama is a Cold Warrior, just wait until American people elect next Republican president.
Military orders to Bulgaria and Baltics will become much more common. I am actually looking forward to this kind of R&R)))
"I agree Vladimir about international law." - I am only bringing up the Ukraine because I believe that Russia have set a dangerous precedent of Right of
Strong in its behavior in Ukraine. They are selectively trying to use some international agreements while avoiding the others(i.e. Budapest Memorandum). So
lets keep International Law out of this? We can have a separate thread on it later, ok?
22 days ago
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Yurij T for the purposes of keeping topic on track i will agree to disagree. As far as isis is concerned if isis takes over syria not a win for anyone. I would rather
republican then clinton or sanders. The pickings are slim. Rather russian troops going in fimishing the job then mass casualties on american sides from three
fronts. As stated in previous topic it could also be opened riussian Ukrainian intelligence based thread. That way not to pollute other threads with that type or
conflict. In a civil manner of course
22 days ago
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James Craven
It is a serious mistake even crime, from which so many have suffered and are suffering to underestimate, demonize, marginalize, caricature one's perceived
"enemy", as well as overestimate, sanctify, gloss-over the contradictions in one's own "side" or even to not challenge whose "side" in a dispute or war is really
being served. When one meets the real victims of "power projections" by one's own country, from operations never known about, never debated in Congress,

that were acts of war no less than 9-11, and then one learns later from documents leaked or declassified that these operations were pure folly and worse, and
then when one sees the pathetic line-up of presidential candidates in both parties for president, I trust even less anything coming out of my own government
and what is being done in my name as an American.
22 days ago
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James Craven
Did the current president of the Ukraine not admit openly that he was installed through an un-Constitutional coup and request changes so that the same means
he came to power could not be used to take him out? And what if Russian diplomats and members of the Duma were seen at Occupy Wall Street
demonstrations urging violence against the USG and state as McCaine and "Fuck the EU" Victoria Nyland were seen in Kiev doing?
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Ms. Kitova, "Rather russian troops going in fimishing the job then mass casualties on american sides from three fronts". I think you trying to imply that
Russians will finish job of clearing Syria of ISIS? I am all for Russian blood being spilled in place of American. But do you really believe that they are willing
AND able to do this? I beg to differ. Little background:
"Ability". They have barely put down Chechen rebellion. Relative peace was secured by giving one of the insurgent clans(Kadirov family) reigns of power in
Chechnya. Today's Chechnya is country within country. Russia law is irrelevant to defacto Sharia dictatorship of Ramzam Kadirov(35 years old).
"Wiliness". Russians still remember well their losses in Afghanistan against Mojahedin. While Russian gov't knew that they could gather support for their war
in Ukraine under notion of protection of Russian speakers, they know that ground offensive is out of the question in Syria. Ivan is not ready to see caskets
coming back from the war against islamists. Russian commitment to "boots on the ground"(beyond the force protection of Tartus and some in Damascus) will
be political suicide for Putin and his clique.
So I think that too many of us expect Russians to be a panacea to Syrian problem...I would see Russian move for what that is - attempt to save Damascus and
Tartus and gain political points ahead of Putin's speech in United Nations...and off course as distraction from Crimea and Donbass conflict.
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Yuriy,
Situation with Ukraine and Russia belongs to a different thread, so let's not deviate from the topic.
My point was that IF Syrian government lost some territory and from that moment it already does not have any legal authority to take action and return it
under its control, the same rule should be applied equally everywhere: "Temporarily lost control - so it is not yours forever".
Let's be consistent.
22 days ago
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I have never implied russian blood is better then anyones. For russia the position to go after isis clearly defined and yes i think they can get the job done. It is
harder for usa die to the fact they potentially wpuld be fighting assad forces. Russia and isis too much of issue with that.
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
About elections I just can repeat the best quote about that by Mark Twain:
If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.
Do you know any one case when a politician after winning elections kept his/her words and delivered what was promised? So it does not matter what they say
during public discussion, the result will be the same. People will elect more likable candidate and the movie actors (by training, career or just by nature) have
the best chances.
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
James, regarding your first statement. Are you implying that 9/11 was rigged by Americans?
Regarding second statement, ANY coup or revolution will not be constitutional. I am sure as a professor you know this.
"And what if Russian diplomats and members of the Duma were seen at Occupy Wall Street demonstrations urging violence".
1. I don't see a problem of them being present and even supporting Occupy movement.
1. Are you comparing Obama government with Yanukovich government? You might want to take this argument back to the drawing board....
"Did the current president of the Ukraine not admit openly that he was installed through an un-Constitutional coup and request changes so that the same
means he came to power could not be used to take him out?" - Can you please send me a link to this? I couldn't find anything about this.
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Yuriy, PLEASE do not pollute this thread with irrelevant posts. Just start another discussion about Ukraine - it is simple.
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Vladimir, I don't know what is it like in Canada, but in US elections reflect local political climate.
Vladimir, my point is that I don't agree with "Temporarily lost control - so it is not yours forever" principle. The reason why I brought up the Ukraine because
thats where Russians used this principle in relation to Crimea, saying that Crimea "came back home forever".
So since you have mentioned International Law, occurrence above would be a violation of International Law. This is why I asking moderator to limit the
discussion of international law here. We can discuss it on the separate thread.
22 days ago
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James Craven
Mr. Tymoshenko, The changes to which I referred were in the impeachment and succession processes that were circumvented in the case of Yanukovich that
previously made it easier to remove him for cause. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ukraine Also, regime change is in violation of international law,
it is up to Ukrainian people to change their own government and when U.S. Senators and Diplomats are seen directly promoting violence and interfering in the
internal affairs of another nation, that is in violation of U.S. law as well as a reckless act that only inflames a situation and makes reprisals elsewhere on U.S.
forces and persons as well as gives cause and ammunition for the other side. The Yanukovich government should have been impeached for cause, with evidence
and due process. All this has produced is more blowbacks and misery, imagine Brzezinski bragging about lying the USSR into Afghanistan, ...It goes on and on.
22 days ago
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Yurij T. There are more managers posting in this group. This is not ukraine discussion thread. Parallels were made you explained that. Lets move on
22 days ago
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I agree James Craven
22 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
James, I wholehearted disagree on every sentence in your posting(most people would)...However, I don't want to turn into "Ukraine discussion thread". As a
management, I know you understand...

I simply mentioned Ukraine as an illustration to my point. If you want to discuss political processes there, just create another thread and we will battle.
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Let's stick to Syria and Russia. Plus all other counties DIRECTLY involved. We agreed that there is no "intervention" from Russia because all actions are in
compliance with the law and based on requests from the Syrian government.
About "regime change". We have seen many cases of forced regime change and what it brings to people lives and political stability. Nothing but misery. Is
Libya better now? No. Is Iraq better now than before invasion? No. Infrastructure and economy in Syria is already partly destroyed. Somebody has to stop it.
22 days ago
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James Craven
Mr Tymoshenko, you asked for my opinion and basis for it, you asked for my reference to the changes in law made by Poroshenko that I heard him say from
his own mouth would, yes, prevent another from taking power as he had. But here is the difference: a battle is about who is right or thinks he or she is right; a
discussion is about what is right. I am profoundly ignorant of the Ukraine except to know that the Ukraine was one of the areas that welcomed Nazis as
liberators, that provided the Nazis with the SS units that did the worst wet work that even the Nazis could not stomach, that provided many of the Nazis to the
post-war Intelligence Services, and whose descendants are showing up with their flags flying and have some offices in the government.
22 days ago
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I agree Jim. After words they sold out to Russia when realized they were on the loosing end with Nazis at the time. With that said there are nice Ukrainian
decent people i have met while in Canada.
On topic with Syria and Russia i agree nothing was violated by Russians currently in Syria
22 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Nearly 30,000 foreign recruits have now poured into Syria, many to join the Islamic State. Somehow it is "impossible" to stop them. This is an excerpt from
New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/27/world/middleeast/thousands-enter-syria-to-join-isis-despite-global-efforts.html
It is VERY expensive to supply them with food, weapons, ammo, etc., plus salaries. In my estimate, it is app. $5,000 per person per month minimum. Therefore,
total expenditures are $150,000,000 per month only for new fighters.

Total number of ISIS fighters varies from 100,000 to 200,000, but even for 100,000 fighters they will need $500,000,000 PER MONTH.
Somebody pays $500 millions every month to mercenaries to fight the government of Syria because obviously the ISIS army cannot rely on donations and
charities.
21 days ago
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Scott Shields
Yep, this should inform all of you that the Sunni / Shia war is not one that will be solved by others. Iran decided to play its hand out fully and we shall see if
their good citizens really understand how their leaders have placed them on a position of no return. And For some reason Russia wants to be a part of it.
America does not and is trying hard to educate Iran away from its ambitions but Sunnis and Isreal have no reason to believe them even if America negotiates
an appeasement deal And Iranian leadership plays out friendly reterick. The sad part is all those on Syria, Lebanon and elsewhere who believed Iran and
Russia could help them. America, Europe & international community can sign what they want, but reality is this should be handled only by Sunni nations,
Turkey, Israel and Iran. If they cannot sit together what makes you think America, Europe, international community can. Especially Russia who has no friends
in region. America has many friends. Europe many friends, China and Russia are communist infidels hated worse than all others.
21 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Vladimir, "$5,000 per person per month minimum". Have you ever been to Middle East? "Daesh" that has $5k spent on him better be Navy Seal.
It seems like you implying something. Why don't you just say it? Who do you think is funding "Daesh"?
21 days ago
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Scott Shields
Yurly, many people from many countries are. And 5k is normal. This is Russia and Irans problem now. They got their nuclear deal. America is on sidelines all
the while both thought it was America that actually cared. America could care less at this point and time that's why they signed agreement. They knew it would
exculate war with those in region earlier than later. Obama actually out foxed Russia and Iran.
21 days ago
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Arne Gerrit Halvorsen
Discord and Conquer !
21 days ago
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Elena Velasco
just in:
This
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/what-s-putin-up-to-in-syria-i-would-wager-he-s-after-something-big-retaking-palmyra-a6669446.html
Looks like a post-victory Palmyra will leave Assad much more secure in his half of Syria. "...
and Putin more secure at his ship slips...
and this:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34375875
In looking at a map there are seleral advantages to the retaking of Palmyra, by whomever.
21 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Scott, I hear you. I am just not as optimistic about Iran and Russia capabilities to solve problem with Syria.
The reason that I question $5000 bill to fund a single Daesh fighter is because I have seen their kind during my time in Iraq and Afghanistan. Those people
lived of very little, used their resources to the maximum. Their $100 homemade IED would cause $15000 damage to our MRAPs. Kids would work as their
lookouts and scouts for some candy and maybe a pocket change. This is why they were difficult to defeat. It was challenging to find and disrupt their financial
stream because it had such a small imprint due to low dollar quantity involved.
As for salary, most are not there for fiscal gain. Some look for self-discovery as a "true" muslim, some looking for adventure in opposition to the current world
order. Some can't return to their home anymore(Chechens).
All this being said, if Russia wants to use their lives and their resources - I say let them bleed. I am sure Chechen Daesh fighters are ecstatic at opportunity of
taking it to Ivan.
21 days ago
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Michael Carroll
I don't believe the Russians are interested in a solution. A frozen conflict will suit them fine. Assad will remain in power, FSA will be neutralised by
Russian/Syrian forces, Daesh will be neutralised in Syria by US/Iran Coalition forces. Saudi/Quatar will continue to support anti Assad Al Quaeda factions to
continue a low intensity conflict in Syria into the foreseeable future. Daesh will continue operations in Iraq satisfying the US requirement to keep the frozen
conflict bubbling along there with no one side getting the upper hand. A balance of power will thus be reached in the region allowing the US/Iran coalition
influence in Iraq and Russia the deciding influence in Syria.
20 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Michael, "FSA will be neutralised by Russian/Syrian forces". Agreed, the good guys will get a stick.
"Daesh will continue operations in Iraq satisfying the US requirement to keep the frozen conflict bubbling along there with no one side getting the upper hand"
- how this of any gain for us? I was in Iraq and we wanted nothing more but their stability and self-sustainment. It was shocking to see that Maliki couldn't
share his political power with Sunnis and after relative peace of 2009-2013, country was in flames of civil war.
20 days ago
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Mario Pinto
I don't know where this is going, but Russia has been in Syria for nearly five decades. Syria has Russian weapons, planes and support for the region, I believe
they have over 2,000 planes in the region, and a Russian naval facility at Tartus seaport.
The U.S has military bases dotted around the globe, what's the difference? the USSR was in alliance with Syria after world war two, they will not pack up and
leave because the west says so; and maybe why Obama was smart in not sending in military troops to the region in a head long clash with the Russian's, who
are clearly benefitting from the support.
This is where diplomacy and foreign policy heads need to play their best chess game, in Vietnam the U.S fought Chinese forces, as well as the local VC; and
again in Korea both Russian and Chinese influence changed the direction of the conflict, a no win situation.
20 days ago
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Yes very true about Russians being in Syria during cold war and the base . It went dormant for awhile thou right after soviet union collapse.
20 days ago
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James Craven
And yet the father of Assad was an ally of the U.S. in Desert Storm and the younger Assad an ally as one of 52 nation-states (all on the "7 regime changes in 5
years" discussed by General Clark) involved in ultra-secret extraordinary renditions and as a sub-contractor in torture.
20 days ago
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James Craven
And yet the father of Assad was an ally of the U.S. in Desert Storm and the younger Assad an ally as one of 52 nation-states (all on the "7 regime changes in 5
years" discussed by General Clark) involved in ultra-secret extraordinary renditions and as a sub-contractor in torture.
20 days ago
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Mario Pinto
Russia was not as it was in those years before Desert Storm, it's global influenced had waned, but under Putin those times have changed. there is a new purpose
to Putin's strategy, unifying the former Soviet States, and building a more strategic position for trade and commerce.
The Assad regime was redirected when Bashir's brother was killed before his time, he was the one who was being groomed for the head of state, but regardless
the regime has been a single party state, and has had shaky relations with it's neighbors for years. The Muslim brotherhood was already on the rise in the
eighties, and has since spread throughout the region, it's complicated at best.
The Middle East has always been a hotbed of turmoil, it will get worse, before it gets better
20 days ago
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I dont see Putin unifying former soviet states. I can see possibly Belarus. Part of ukraine and even that stretchable. I dont see him wanting estonia latvia or
lithuania neither azerbajan, or armenia.
20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
The bottom line is that every country supports its allies. The USA supports its allies, Russia does the same. Does Russia need somebody's permission to do that?
Not at all.
20 days ago
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James Craven
No Mr. Ponomarev, the USG dumps its allies when they are no longer useful and potential allies know it; my father flew some of the last commercial flights out
of Vietnam and can attest to that fact as can all the Vietnamese who worked with U.S. forces who became refugees and were not admitted to the U.S. along with
the "Children of Dust" left by U.S. "fathers". And before Vietnam, there were all those who aided us during WWII who were dumped. And after Vietnam,

how many dirty covert wars can we count that went south with those who had aided U.S. forces, risking horrible reprisals against themselves and their families
were left to their fate awaiting all those accused of collaborating with a foreign occupying power.
20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
James, I am really sorry about lives of those people. It is very unfortunate that they were considered expendable and left to suffer or die. On the other hand, it
clearly shows to all others what can happen to them in case of collaboration. The best thing is to let all the countries to sort their problems by themselves. But it
will make most of the politicians unemployed.
20 days ago
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James Craven
Yes, Vladimir, I agree 100%. But like the old saying from Sir Walter Scott, "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." When you
have lies built upon lies and more, then just like a knitted sweater than can come unraveled with a pull on the right anchor thread, so the contradictions surface
and lies today expose lies of yesterday, they expose history books full of lies and they expose systems and power structures built upon those lies, being cornered
like a cornered rat, from the inexorable consequences of their own psychopathy and worse.
20 days ago
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William D. Howard
"You have to remember Vladimir Putin was number 2 in the KGB. .." if anyone knows Russian intelligence that President knows Russian intelligence.
Monsigneure Putin is no fool, he's no evil tyrant and no fairy godmother.
I'm looking forward to finding time to read the transcripts of the New York discussions.
20 days ago
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William D. Howard
HMG have the right to act militarily because our lands are being 'invaded' by immigrants en masse, in numbers we cannot sustain. Our security is stretched by
this reality. Our Borders are under a perceptible and real threat. The situation is simple.
20 days ago
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I agree about him knowing Russian intelligence. Putin spent majority of his KGB career in eastern Germany as intelligence officer. After soviet collapse went
back to st Petersburg worked for local government there. Moved to Moscow became head of security counsel. Yeltzin picked him to be prime minister and
after yeltsin resigned he got the presidency. Then chess game switch with medvedev to be prime minister and now back again to presidency. His retired KGB
rank equivalent to colonel.
20 days ago
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William D. Howard
Thank you Christina.
I heard radio broadcast of David Cameron in New York saying we (The UK) cannot tolerate Assad; the regime has created mass displacement. This is
dangerous to UK socio-politic, socio-economic and to the national mindset and therefore effective intervention is required.
The UN talks in New York of the previous few days are of much interest, President Putin has presented his case and arguments also I believe.
20 days ago
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Mario Pinto
On the refugees crisis, although stern measures need to be taken to control the flow, remember this, Europeans fled Europe before the Nazi's took full power
near world war two, and during certain campaigns a good portion of the population fled to the West, and Africa numbering in the hundreds of thousands. This
is not the first rodeo, we just have short memories of the past.
20 days ago
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Ned Farhat
Well said Mario
20 days ago
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Scott Shields
Am I the only one who knows why Putin was able to climb to his position. He knows I know and a few others and why he will negotiate with me not out of fear
but respect.

20 days ago
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Scott Shields
Tried to allow Obama to know but his people are so untrustworthy it's a joke. They would use for wrong reason and probably not even inform him.
20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
(The UK) cannot tolerate Assad; the regime has created mass displacement.
$$$$$
Some known countries trained, paid and supplied mercenaries with weapons to occupy part of Syria. That caused mass displacement. So Assad is guilty
because he does not surrender. Guys, let's invoke some common sense. It is (relatively) good for a Hollywood movie, but not for real life.
20 days ago
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I agree refugees and Assad fault. So the scenario Assad gone opposition too weak isis takes over then Next It impacts iran's oil as well as the certain balance.
Better Assad prior to the west supplying weapons to opposition there was no isis in syria. Same as what happened when ghadafi got taken out
20 days ago
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Robert T. Jordan, MBA
The cold truth is that Putin will do whatever it takes to hold onto his naval bases in Syria; just as he was determined to take the Crimea to acquire certain
access to the Black Sea.
These are strategic initiatives designed to uncork his military access from warm water ports that will enable him to rapidly strike out toward Europe or North
Africa both from land and sea bases
20 days ago
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I support Usa but our troops do not need to die in the war where too many players are involved

20 days ago
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Yes access to the sea very important but looking from putin's angle he didnt want nato dictate to have a base next to his backyard and chaos in Ukraine causing
further issues to Russia. It is more then just about tartus base. It is about oil and stopping spread of isis
20 days ago
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Yes ... stopping ISIS is a must because they threaten his sea base south of Aleppo and could target the airbase Russia is building at Jableh. There are reports
that Russia aims to establish its first military air base there and there are rumors that the harbor of Tartus might be extended. .
"Syria has completely redone Latakia airport," journalist Thierry Meyssan, who writes for Al Watan, told Al-Monitor in an email. "The ground was leveled. A
new runway was built for Russian aircraft. Sheds have been installed to house the aircraft." Meyssan said workers also are building housing.
20 days ago
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But all of this could be also undone by the Free Syrian Fighters as well
20 days ago
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James Craven
The USG has announced and admitted that their $500 million program to train foreign fighters, that has produced 5 so far, along with mass desertions and
turning their new arms over to ISIS or AQ or whomever, is a failure and has been terminated. That should really give a warm feeling to any potential allies of
an Arab-led coalition with Iranian and Russian assistance eh?
20 days ago
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Ned Farhat
Sorry Robert I disagree, free Syrian army has no legitimacy, they are a rebel group without support of the majority. The West funded them and all it has done
is wreak havoc in the region. Time to back off and let Syria and the allies it trusts to clean up this mess.
20 days ago

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Scott Shields
You are all missing something very important. And this is confirmed from inside Russia. You do know why Putin did the interview on 60 minutes. He is in deep
shit. He overplayed his hand as I mentioned a while ago. He needs America in huge way. Sunnis and Israel are now his proxy war not America. And America is
saying pound salt, unless he changes his Iranian position on nuclear. Yes Suns and Israel are ISIS, not America. And we need to stay out of it. They all are
insane. Let Russia have the insane.
20 days ago
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Scott Shields
And yes Christians in Middle East should have been evacuated moons ago as I suggested. This is on American leadership of this administration. Obama is a
simple fool who is more consumed with politics and selfish desires for friends of no soul. Putin has been offered a way out let's see if he accepts it stays in stupid
protocol if what he believes is international norms. There are no international norms ladies and gentlemen. And for all you conspiracy theorist who think
America had something to do with 911, if that were the case the UN would have dropped past few days.
20 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko
Ned, you said "Free Syrian army has no legitimacy". Does Assad have legitimacy after he gassed his own people just like Saddam? Do you really believe that
Assads government along along with Russians can defeat Daesh?
20 days ago
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Ned Farhat
He was the government in power and to save thousands, 100,000's killed and millions displaced. How is that a good thing?
Secondly, bombs from drones will not defeat Daesh, problem requires troops on the ground. Syria needs to own the problem and get troops mobilised backed
by whoever they deem an ally. USA can help by placing serious pressure on Turkey and Saudi Arabia to stop funding rebels.
Only then is there a hope to crush this cancer.
20 days ago
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Yuriy Tymoshenko

Ned, do you really think there is a hope for united Syria? Can you really put entire hodgepodge of rebells(Nusra, Moderate FSA, ISIS) in one stack of enemy?
Do you really think population of Syria will forgive and forget Assad's execution of civilians? This situation reminded me Ukraine in 2013. Yanukovich's
violent suppression of small student protest resulted in millions of Ukrainians taking it to the streets demanding his removal. When they in turn were
confronted with police brutality - this lead them to mirror respond with violence.
Another thing, I doubt that we (or Europe) would ever support guy like Assad. He is embodiment of everything that we consider evil. Country that promotes
freedom, democracy and justice will never go for it.
20 days ago
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The Pay for Russia is the Naval Warm Water Port...Putin Saves Syria, Syria gives him Naval Might and Power...China is involved too, they are watching the
door in defense of Russia right now, they are placing their Heavy Battlecruiser's (3) in place...We don't even have a Carrier near the place, how flaccid we
are...We need some big shit to push them out of the way...
20 days ago
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SAVVAS IOANNOU
The thing is China is a business partner of Saudi Arabia. We don't want to annoy and irritate the Saudis!
20 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Possible Russian A2/D2 outlay according to P. Breedlove, because they don'y look like counter-terrorist...?
Whats the numbers, frequency, method of travel, and they sound like infantry to me..for setting paremters, checkpoints, move stuff and intel, communications.
wonder.if China is a co-planner...
http://ecowatch.com/2015/09/28/volkswagen-scandal/?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=b7a4c43674-
Top_News_9_28_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-b7a4c43674-86015541
20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev

I enjoy reading this discussion. Some participants are sure that very remote countries can determine who will be a president of another country, what party
should rule, what groups of armed rebels should be supported (money, training, weapons) to become a new government.
Analyzing the overall mood, it is clear that mass media convinced many people that some countries are so superior that all others must follow their orders - or
else. This is the best way to a new big war. Are you ready?
20 days ago
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Elena Velasco
Repost from elewhere:
Well, Allen has announced his intent to resign, having sounded the alarm over a year ago, what I see is an initiative to take some of Syria back from ISIS even
though it will greatly serve
Russian interests that were present before. This is NOT a CRIMEA move as the last few elites were airlifted over a year ago.. Russias presence is the lessor of
two evils. the surrounding little states will have to put some starch in their britches and tone down their adventurism now.
Russia will keep Assad in place, for the remaining constituents, Russia will keep their ship slips and I am getting mixed messages about just how far he i going
to take the ISIS campaign.. There are many, many Chechen fighters in Syria, and Putin does NOT play nice with them, as evidenced in the N. Caucus area in
Russia (too broad for here and now)
I will say I am still trying to figure out his strategic moves with the Chechens at this point.
The circumstance is doable, and if an aggregate number of Kurds would join the party, that would fortify the N. flank, Iran on the west, Iraq Russia on the
East...sounds and looks promising......
1. hours ago
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20 days ago
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Elena Velasco
http://warisaracket.org/russia-bases.jpg
outlay of Russian presence around the world
20 days ago
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SAVVAS IOANNOU
This is very scary and unsettling.
20 days ago
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Elena Velasco
An infux of infantry would mean and serve different purposes, depending on EXACTLY what Putin's end state goal is in the region and with whom.
I see 2- possibly 3 scenarios at this point with just the current activity, way too broad to write about right now...
20 days ago
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Ned Farhat
Yuriy, I understand what you are saying but those elements must be removed to stop the current situating getting worse. FSA would not have had a chance if it
wasn't for US help, cut that and they will fade , they are being overrun by Daesh and Nusra anyway. The other 2 groups must be eliminated and not given a
home.
20 days ago
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E, I stole your link and posted it! Too Good to lay out on it's own...T
20 days ago
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Elena Velasco
T. I felt the same, when I saw this map...now, for a China outlay...E
20 days ago
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See Pentagon push back on "propaganda" aimed at diminishing U. S. trained New Syrian Army:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/pentagon-denies-us-trained-syrian-fighters-have-over-jordan-mba
20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
Elena,
Please use more reliable sources of information and verify it before posting. Just from politeness towards the participants. The map from the link you have
posted shows Russian presence in Japan, Spain, UK, and many other countries, including NATO countries. Is it for real?
Obviously, the map shows just visits of russian ships to ports in other countries but this professionally misleading map makes impression of multiple russian
bases all around the world. In fact, Russia has only ONE foreign base and that is in Syria.
As a result of this, for some people "it is very scary and unsettling" and others will re-post it without verification, spreading incorrect and misleading
information.
Please verify your information in the future. We do not spread propaganda here and try to have serious discussions based on verifiable facts, do we?.
20 days ago
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Mario Pinto
There is never a milit
20 days ago
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Mario Pinto
There is never a military move by a country unless it has to do with getting something for their efforts, an exchange in commerce, contracts, strategic
positioning, or destabilizing another government.
The media stream is just a way of selling the story they want to appease us minions from having our own opinions on the real reason. Russia was spreading it's
influence throughout Africa to build the bases we see on Elena's map, but also to tap into resources, which China eventually took in it's global domination.
It looks like Russia and the U.S are in a new cold war struggle, as is evident by Putin and Obama's exchanges during the summit. I have no doubt Putin is
planning more than the eye can see, the new U.S President will have this to add to the foreign policy pile on his/her desk.
20 days ago
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Well said, Mario.
Resources ...expansion ... control ... exploitation ... .
The United States is unique in that once it defeated its adversaries, it then joined with others to rebuild those countries. The only territory that we have asked
for is filled with the graves of our young men and women who were sacrificed for other's freedom from oppression.

20 days ago
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Vladimir Ponomarev
The whole world is full of oppression in one form or another. Is it enough justification to start a war with every country? If yes, what is the plan and what will
be sequence of wars? We already know about "7 countries in 5 years". It looks like it is just a first chapter in the big master plan. Any suggestion for the next
several countries?
20 days ago
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I believe that we will see Iran, Russia and Syria attempt to crush ISIS. But it is too late. ISIS has morphed into quick silver, which when you try to crush it
simply splits into many smaller blobs that then make it even more difficult to destroy.
The "coalition of the willing" won't. They have retreated to the sidelines for lack of strong, credible leadership. ISIS will distract its enemies by feinting into
Spain and other European countries gathering followers as it goes. The western powers will be in a state of flux and thrown off guard.
But IS's real goal will be to consolidate gains in Afghanistan and then Pakistan.in hopes that it can establish a stable base from which to consolidate resources
and plan it strategy to crush Egypt, Llibya, Algeria and Morrocco before making a serious thrust into Spain to establish IS as the legitimate heir of Mohammad
and inheritor of the modern Caliphate.
But history will repeat and the western nations finally wake up and realize they must come together to defeat ISIS ... or be ripped apart by it.
19 days ago
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Mario Pinto
The only reason why ISIS has been so formidable is it is hiding amongst the general population of Syria and Iraq, if Vietnam taught us one thing, it's you can't
win a war like that, you kill civilians, you lose the war on the home front.
Mistakes have been made, on purpose in many cases, those profiting from war only see the immediate gains, the division of a region they can exploit, but out of
the chaos there is always a new enemy, a new power; it's like playing the stocks, you win some, and you lose some.
One must dominate and irradiate the enemy using the entire theatre of operations, just like the Japanese, and German's did in world war two, and what Israel
did to their new territory, they moved the boundaries, and segregated the populace into a manageable area, when the action starts you know when and where
to aim your efforts.
I think the real ISIS threat will be in Europe, a man once said.....
''We will not need swords, guns, or terrorists, we will win a great Islamic victory, Europe will become a Muslim Continent''
<Colonel M Kaddafi >
I remember the nationalization of the oil and gas industry, how privatization was the lead in developing the resource in these poor countries, split between the
''big seven'' When governments realized what they could do to the global price of oil and trade, they started OPEC, if I'm correct, I believe they control 85% of
the world's reserves, Iran, Iraq, Saudi, Kuwait, Nigeria, Venezuela leading the way.

A massive discussion on csio about syrian war

A massive discussion on csio about syrian war

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A massive discussion on csio about syrian war