1. Ian Dunning
University of Salford MA TV Documentary
Final Research Project
Tutor: Erik Knudsen
Interview conducted with Wojtek Melniczuk 30/8/2014
Can we start with Poland again. Tell me what it was like growing up in Poland.
Hard. Poland is not a very nice country. Well, its nice for a holiday but its not nice to grow up,
especially my city. I knew that I don 稚 really belong there from quite an early age, and frankly my
dad knew that I don 稚 belong there either, so he sent me for private tuition in English from the age
of six. I knew I didn 稚 belong in Poland and neither did my dad. He knew that I don 稚 belong in
Poland. I don 稚 believe I belong in Poland and neither did my dad. I didn't like Poland very much
and neither did my dad and he sent me to tuitions very early, and he wanted me to learn a lot of
languages and have a lot of knowledge to just leave the country when I can, so I did years after. I
had quite a few issues with Polish society. I didn 稚 like the racism, I don 稚 like the discrimination.
I don 稚 like xenophobia, homophobia, genderphobia whatever else there is in Poland, but frankly I
just didn 稚 like the ignorant close-minded people.
I couldn't find my place there. When I hit 18 and I finished my high school with A-levels I've got 5
A-levels - tried to start work, so I was doing bar work and waiter in restaurant and so forth, but I
couldn 稚 find anything quite sufficient, and my mum came about to tell me that she had a friend in
England, and because she the friend owed my mum a favour, she asked for me to go. So we bought
the cheapest bus ticket to England and I left on the 17th
of September 2006. Well the 16th
of
September frankly. And on the 17th
I was in Morecambe north-west.
So on the 16th
of September I left Poland and on the 17th
I was in Morecambe.
This was 2004 in May in June and May a lot of people knew that the referendum was going to go
through, so we were going to join the European Union and because many western countries didn 稚
put any restrictions on workers at the time on the numbers of workers which can come like for
example Great Britain and Scotland England and Scotland and Northern Ireland, Portugal, Italy,
Greece. Those countries didn 稚 put any restrictions on in 2004, so everyone who wanted to go
could go on 2nd
May. A lot of Polish companies opened in the western countries because people didn
稚 speak the language, so they needed someone who will be finding them jobs, basically. And from
my home town Koshalyn the English agency in England employment agencies from Morecambe
were ordering people from Poland to get on a bus whoever wanted to work to get on a bus, and they
were taking care of accommodation and jobs. Accommodation was of course (p....) and the job was
very simple and factory-like or some sort of packing duty. But because my home town was not
necessarily very prosperous right now, the people were up for this so the packed buses were coming
from Koshalyn to Morecambe every day with people, and those people were filling up empty houses
in Morecambe and hotels and other accommodation, and they were working in the factories and they
are probably still there, some of them.
How did you feel on leaving Poland?
Happy. That was the first time that I collected all my friends, because I've got a few groups of
friends in my home town which they didn 稚 mix, so that was quite funny to see them all standing on
the pavement waving to me people who wouldn 稚 meet otherwise because they were from
completely different environments. I was happy. I was pleased that I was starting to do something
with my life. I always see it as a big adventure. I didn 稚 know what was going to happen. I didn
稚 know if I will succeed or not bag full of clothes and some money in my pocket I thought yeah
why not? We'll see how it goes.

2. They just came to say goodbye to me because they knew that I wouldn 稚 be coming back. Well,
they knew that I will come back to visit, but they knew that I wont come back to live. Everyone was
certain that I will not come back. I think people just knew me, and they knew that I cant fit in not in
a 100000 people city in the north of Poland where there 痴 nothing for young people there 痴
nothing for anyone, frankly. There is not very many opportunities in Poland, in most of the cities, so
when I was leaving I thought, that's it I wont have to deal with this any more. I'll have to deal with
something else but this will be a completely different story. So I was happy that I could do
something different. I could start somewhere else. Of course everyone drags their luggage with
them I don 稚 mean their physical luggage, like all their emotions and feelings and things we learned,
willingly or unwillingly, the ways to think, the prejudism and everything but you can change its not
set in stone in your head. A lot of people who come to England from eastern Europe, they cant
understand that, they 致 e got a very strict mindset which tells them that Pakistani people are dirty
and black people are stupid, or whatever its really hard to unlearn. But I was happy about that
because I knew that I would meet someone else, I will meet people who think differently from Polish
people, so they will give me a little bit of perspective on life and on others.
You haven 稚 said anything about your brother.
He's 7 years older my brother is 7 years older than me. He was taking care of me when I was a kid
he was doing what I told him to do. I had a talent from the beginning to get what I wanted from
people who are close to me like my mum or my brother, so if I wanted something sweet or cakes or
something, my brother would always have some loose change, so I was always dragging him and
making a deal that I would clean his room and he was going to buy me some biscuits or something.
So I know that he was taking care of me, but when my parents moved out it was a bit harder, so we
had to put a lot of effort to keep the flat, and it was worth it, because while we were living on our
own for a few years, it was a good time. We didn 稚 bond that much, but we knew that we could
manage, whatever happens. If two of us can live in Poland on our own and basically not starve to
death, then we're doing something right. And then we found my mum, and then she moved back in,
so I think that was a massive success. I didn 稚 know that was going to happen I thought my
parents wouldn 稚 come back, but nobody knew.
Tell me what it's like for homosexuals in Poland, from your perspective.
Yes, that would be very subjective, because a lot of people tell me its better now. But I don 稚
believe them, really. I read news sometimes. I don 稚 follow the news but I read news sometimes
and every so often I can see Catholic church have a discussion about legalising abortion and about
boycotting in-vitro and about condemning homosexuals all the time, and a lot of people believe in
this. A lot of people think that anyone who is not straight not heteronormative its wrong, its a sin,
you will go to hell, you will go do this and that. Frankly it goes even further, because they create
when I say they Poland is kind of a weird country because you've got people open for everyone, so
there will be people who will be understanding that race and gender and hair colour and eye colour
and sexuality and so forth disability doesn 稚 really matter for a person. It's just the way it is you
cant change that nobody picked it nobody can choose this sort of stuff like attributes. So many
people are open minded and they are like they don 稚 care, they are more like English. But there is a
significant number of people who do not understand that whoever you haven 稚 chose to be its not
your fault and you cannot be blamed for that. Those are people who usually point fingers at
everyone who is different and try to prove that oh yeah, you're not allowed to be called human, for
example, to the extent that you know it's Let me put it in perspective: three years ago // we had the
first debate in the Senate about the partnerships civil partnerships and we had three projects, and all
three projects were turned down on the vote, so they went to the parliament and they were written
and they were rewritten because each project has three readings, so 3x3 there was nine readings of
the partnership resolution for same-sex couples and it didn 稚 come through. So frankly, everyone
knows what 痴 going on, everyone knows that homosexuals are there and they want to be treated as

3. equals, because we are in western Europe, therefore we are supposed to have normal western rules
but no, politicians and the ruling class and the church doesn 稚 really want to allow homosexuals to
be treated at least from an institutional point of view to be treated equal.
And what does that mean from your point of view for yourself, growing up homosexual what did it
mean for you?
Confusion, pain, a lot of hate. I've grown a lot of skin. We have a saying in Poland that you grow
thick skin and shit happens to you . . . But frankly, from a very early age about say 8,9,10 I was a
little bit different. I knew I was different I didn't exactly know what was different about me, but I
knew that it's not I didn 稚 really see the point of looking under girls' skirts and pulling her hair and
stuff like that I didn 稚 really see that as a necessity for my happiness at the time. And then when I
was a bit older, and I realised what was different with me, so I had suicidal thoughts I had a period of
isolation, I didn 稚 have friends. I was sitting in the public library in a corner reading books, because
I knew that people weren 稚 going to accept that. At the time, when you are an early teen, its not
that important. You just think, I'm isolated because I'm different. But when you get to the stage of
growing up, like late teens, then the problem starts, because the sexual tension is enormous. I'm sure
everyone has that. And then the problem starts because there is a lack of this second person a
second being there and there is not many, as you can imagine, people who are free with sexuality
expression. Every so often you could hear maybe not now but every so often when I was a kid, you
could hear that this and that place or this and that city has been attacked by neo-Nazis skinheads and
they went with the (doors?) they booted up a couple of people, dragged a couple outside, booted up
them outside, and they trashed the place, so you could hear that and you knew that it's not really safe
to to be out to wear the pink vest and the massive sunglasses and be camp. That would be a death
sentence. School was all right, but still there were a couple of guys who didn 稚 really like anyone
who was different, and I was quite different, by their look, by their behaviour, by their heritage. For
a few years I didn 稚 know anyone who was joint heritage. Most of my school mates been Polish
mum was Polish, dad was Polish and the grandfather was Polish three generations at least were
Polish. And then there was me. My dad was born in Ukraine, and he was bullied for that after he
moved to Poland. And then I was born in Poland from a Ukrainian dad a gay guy I was bullied for
this. It wasn 稚 easy, but it made me who I am now, so I don 稚 think it turned out that bad.
Thinking about coming to the UK, what did you expect?
I had a couple of visions. I didn 稚 expect anything. I didn 稚 know what to expect. Its rather
bizarre for a person to come and see what its actually like, because everyone who lived in Poland and
watched the television I mean the standard person, not reading the Times every day, not going to (N-
Pic? ) You can go and buy the Times and the Guardian of the day in Poland its in a shop network
called Enpic but I just seen it, I never bought it. I never watched BBC before, I never watched
CNN. I watched American movies and Monty Python comedies and that was pretty much it. I had a
vision, obviously, everyone had a vision of the Englishman with a cup of tea at five o'clock and stuff
like that so that was lurking in my head, and I was thinking maybe we going to meet someone like
that. And then I went to Morecambe. It was nothing like that. It's a good experience, because
culture shock, its very people learn from it a lot, but at the same time a lot of people who came to
England didn 稚 accept the way it is now. So many Polish people who came to England could not
understand this, but the culture shock is a good thing if you learn from it, and they knew that
England weren 稚 going to look like they 池 e from the 1920s English movies about English
gentlemen drinking tea. But they didn 稚 expect this sort of power division and wealth inequality. It
was for some of them it was so scary that the view of England and how it goes, that they didn't want
to interact. So there is pockets of Polish communities in England where they watch Polish
television, they have Polish neighbours, they work in Polish factories well because everyone who
works there is Polish, beyond the management, the management is usually English - and shopping in
Polish shops. So they created the little environment when they moved to England. This is just
because this is not what we learned about you. This is not what we seen in the television and read in

4. books and been taught in lessons. I liked it, because I could see that English people were more laid
back than they are perceived in England. It wasn 稚 I didn 稚 expect that at all. I did not know that
this is England.
So you were expecting something a bit more -
I didn 稚 expect anything, but this is definitely not what I expected. Its more surprising that England
looked like this than it would be if all English people would be ladies and gentlemen drinking tea at
five o'clock. Nobody really know what England looked like in Poland. Nobody in Eastern Europe
can imagine the Victorian terraced houses and the school with the kids in uniforms the colourful
uniforms and Chinatown and the Pakistani market and so on and so forth. Its not easy for a person.
I lived and grow up in a 115000 people city, and it was classed as a city because we were the head of
the shire one of the shires in the 1990s. My city was the head of the shire the capital of the shire, and
I've seen five people in my life before I moved to England and I consider myself lucky, because some
people didn 稚 see any. I went my mum took me to a trip to the shop to Germany, so we basically
had a driver and we got some German currency and we went for shopping. And I consider myself
lucky that we would go to Germany for a shop, just ten minutes drive from the border. And stuff
like that. We went to the Czech republic my mum took me to my grandparents and we went to the
Czech republic for a day. And I consider myself lucky because many people couldn 稚 do that. So
when I came to England and you see all of them cultures mingled together and just living aside to
each other and actually working, its not like there 痴 so much hate in England. It is a lot of hate, but
its far less that you would have it for example in Ukraine, or Belarus, or Romania, or Slovakia,
frankly they 池 e not very happy recently. So when you see all of them different cultures living in one
space you think this is amazing. This is how it should be. Even though I was abused in England and
been called Polish bastard and whatever that's not that bad, frankly. I think that's pretty normal for
people to have some sort of tension. But it still worked. Nobody ever hit me nobody ever well, I've
been attacked, but not because I'm Polish, just because they were drunk and I was sober or I was in a
bad place at a bad time this is nothing to do with my nationality. And at the same time, you know,
it's shocking its just shocking for most of the Polish people England now is shocking.
What exactly is shocking?
Just this culture shock. We don 稚 expect that. We don 稚 know what we were going to see but this
is not what we want to see. This is not what we are expecting. This is not what we prepared to see.
Its just culture shock, it's just completely different. It's nothing like it's nothing what we learned
about it, it's nothing what we know about it, it's just completely different. You are on a completely
different page that we think you are.
Is it worse that you expected?
Not necessarily worse. The living is still easier. In Poland if I would work for national minimum
wage in a supermarket, I would make ｣110 per month. And that wouldn 稚 cover the rent and the
bills, so I would have to do something on the side, so I would have to do like weekend jobs or
something to pay my bills and rent. And then of course its house maintenance and food, which
would have to be something extra on top of that, so I would have to deliver pizza in the evenings for
the local pizza restaurant. And then maybe I could afford to have a car very cheap, very small. And
here, for a national minimum wage you can pay the flat, pay the bills, pay the car, and still have
money for leisure and pay the food and house maintenance and you will have still much money for
leisure. It's easy here. Polish people wont struggle. We know how to take care of ourselves. We
know how to go around things, because we would have to do it for so long. If you don 稚 have
money you just do something to have that money not necessarily robbery or stealing but you always
find a way to do it, to find it. So when you come here and you don 稚 have to do it you just go to
work for forty hours a week and you're fine and you 致 e got money for everything that's
comfortable for Polish people. So that 痴 why we like it. We don 稚 have to think Oh my God I

5. need to, you know, get ｣100 to get to the end of that month and I don 稚 have any way to do it.
This is the most tiring for Polish people and its not happening in England so we're quite happy. Of
course, the lifestyle is different and open-mindedness is different and, you know, all of the nations of
the world live in one little island, this is quite shocking. But as I said, some people get used to it,
some people don 稚
I didn 稚 expect anything, neither did any other Polish person.
The massive chunk of Polish people in Britain came here for money. But this will sound really weird
but some people came here after their spouses and parents and cousins and whatever, I don't know
multi-generation families. So one person comes here, has the tough time, the hard time, but they
establish themselves enough to bring another person, and then another person. So frankly, if you
think about Polish people coming here to work, that was a theme maybe six, seven years ago, when
the man was coming here, getting a hard job, but well-paid the lorry driver or the builder (or the
roofer). It's a hard job, but it's a well-paid job, and after a time they obviously figured it out that
sending money to Poland is not actually it doesn 稚 make it any better, any easier well obviously the
family in Poland has an easier life, but they still sit in the same place with the same sort of reality and
opportunities, so instead of sending money to Poland and build their house there, those people start
to bring families back here. So yeah, a significant chunk of Polish society came here for money, but
the other significant part of Polish society in England came here for family, came here to live, came
here to establish the new life for themselves rather than stay in Poland and die. So yeah a lot of
Polish people came to work, a lot of people been attracted here just for money, but many other
people just came for a living, to live to do something else.
Ok. Right, let's talk about Morecambe. Tell me about your feelings towards Morecambe.
Many. Too many. Morecambe is a tiny place. Northwest a little bit north west from Lancaster. (ice
cream truck goes by). So Morecambe, a little place, north west of Lancaster, north-west of England.
That was my first actual city or town or whatever, where I lived in England. So when I came to
England I was picked up from Lancaster, from the bus station in Lancaster, and brought to
Morecambe. And it was shocking. The town itself is not that bad, but when you come to England,
you don't expect this. It's very specific place, its very surprising how Morecambe actually still
continues to be this little city with many nationalities. What I'm trying to say is that before 2004 this
town was going downhill the price of properties was going down, nobody wanted to buy them,
nobody wanted to live there, everyone was trying to sell them and move away. So there was a whole
community of a whole neighbourhood of empty terraced houses called West End, which didn 稚 have
the best It was known in England as a not very good place to live due to the crime levels and poverty
and drug abuse and teenage pregnancy, and so on and so forth. And then after 2004 someone
somehow had to accommodate all those thousands of Polish workers (scratching). So after 2004
somehow somewhere the thousands of workers who didn 稚 care where they were going to live they
wanted to work, they wanted to send money home that was the plan. So all that cheap
accommodation was actually filled with workers, so the town was thriving, the shops were opening,
the money started to be well obviously Polish people sent money to Poland but they have to live
here, they have to shop here, they have to eat here, some of them have cars, some of them has
televisions and dvds, dvd players and pcs and consoles and stuff like that. We have to spend money
to live here, but at the same time we sent money to Poland. So because a lot of Polish people came
here to work and start spending money at Morrison 痴, Next, Homebase you know local shops, the
town actually started to thrive. But because there was a significant amount of those people living, it
creates as well some social tension. So as far as I think Morecambe was a good experience which
showed me the dynamic in society and what this can lead to and what is this came from, it was really
scary at some moments. I witnessed fights and verbal abuse, generally people being not nice to one
another just because they were from a different nationality.
Tell me about some of the racial incidents or abuse that you might have experienced.

6. As I said before, I was quite lucky. I was enough open-minded for English people to start talking to
me, and I was enough open-minded and brave to talk in my broken English to English people. I don
稚 think it was that bad, but obviously it wasn 稚 as good as now. So when I came to England I had
to really switch from the Queens English which we'd been taught to speak (car) in Poland to the
Lancashire accent or the north English accent, which wasn 稚 easy but it came around. Then
because I was quite happy to speak with people in English, the English people been pleased. So
when I had the opportunity I was always talking to English people and having a chat, so pretty much
in my area I was quite safe because everyone knew me. That didn 稚 stop verbal abuse towards me.
It's not nice to be called a bastard at nine am in the morning when you 池 e going to the shop for
some milk and bread, but you know, it didn 稚 really bother me that much. What I was really
bothered about was the stuff which happened to my friends and me not me personally, but a group of
my friends when we had to fight for our own space in the West End of Morecambe. And we picked
this space of a basketball court which is in the middle of West End. That was the place we the
English people didn 稚 really use it that much, but they didn 稚 want there's a Polish saying, the
gardeners dog, so he wont have it but he wont let you have it either. So this sort of problem, the
English people didn 稚 want to use the basketball court because they thought its too much in the
residential area and you can see everything that happens there. We didn 稚 care. We thought it's a
nice spot, so we want it. And English people had a problem that fifteen Polish lads hanging out in
the middle of a basketball court, drinking, smoking and having a good time. So of course they were
coming in numbers. So they were coming to try to reclaim it, and they were coming in great
numbers. The biggest one was when there was well an estimate, a hundred and fifty, maybe 200
people on the, near the basketball court, which I mean 150 which I'm saying the Polish people maybe
there were 30, and the rest of them were English gathering outside. But of course the crowd nothing
happened, nothing physical it was a lot of verbal abuse going on, a couple of bottles chucked at the
crowd. But nothing really special.
Bottles thrown by whom to whom?
Oh my God, I don 稚 know. I don 稚 remember. . .
There were 10 Poles, sitting on the benches drinking beer, and then 15 English people came to the
basketball court and started abusing 10 Poles, so Poles didn 稚 want to, you know, look like cowards
or whatever, I don 稚 know masculinity, ego, call it however you want, they didn 稚 want to look
worse, so they start abusing English back, so more English people came in, so some Polish people
who weren 稚 really happy to abuse English people rang for more Polish people, so then the crowd
start gathering. And it when I mean crowds start gathering, when I say crowds start gathering, I don
稚 mean it took half a day, it was ten minutes and the numbers grow from 10 to 30 on the Polish side
and from 20 to 150 on the English side. And some verbal abuse were going on, some cans and
bottles being thrown at each other. It was nobody got hurt but basically they were preparing for
battle. And because West End of Morecambe is obviously not the safest place, there are sort of cctvs
going on. So someone seen it, report it to the local police and 15 police cars came from nowhere
appeared basically in every corner of the road for every road there was a police car there filled with
cops. So English people didn 稚 want to get well arrested, I presume, so they just disappeared, and
we just stood there waiting for what happens next. Police came and asked a couple of questions,
and they went back home that was it.
And there was the other incident that we talked about where there were two sets of people and you
were trying to break up the fight.
I tried not to allow them to do that, because the I know it's like a panic state if they were gonna get
there, you cannot stop them, so when a couple of groups start fighting there's no way you're gonna
stop them that's not happening. You can be Ghandi and you can't stop them. What you can do is not
allow them to start, put the conversation on a different track, make them talk to each other, even if

7. they shout, it's better than hitting the other person. So yeah, me and my friends which is a group of
4 or 5 people we were walking down the street and while we reached the West End Road we stood
on the front of the pub, which was thriving it was Friday night, Saturday night the pub was thriving,
the music was loud, people outside smoking cigarettes, drinking. And then three fellows come over
age 16/17, bald, in trackies and trainers I remember one didn 稚 have a t-shirt it was September, it
was quite chilly. And obviously they didn 稚 they wasn't very peaceful people, they looked for
something to do, and because from my observation they were very into cocaine, I think they had
quite a lot of that that night, because they didn 稚 want to come down. And of course the abuse
kicked off as usual it always starts with the same way and because I tried not to get involved I stood
in the middle. So lets say there was four yards space between my friends and the English lads, and
then them chucking very lovely words at each other for a good five minutes. And then me standing
in the middle trying to say, come on guys, just calm down, it's all good, we don't have to do this, you
know, just trying to make the situation a little bit easier. But obviously both groups had too much
testosterone at the time, so they ran into each other with me in the middle and that looked like a Star
Wars from inside. I wasn 稚 hit I wasn 稚 even touched by anyone, but obviously the English lads
didn 稚 really last that long well, they lasted quite long, but they were tiny, slim guys so they were
landing on the floor more often than the Polish people did at the time. But because they were under
the influence of some sort of hyper drug they didn 稚 want to give up, so then I had to take my
Polish friends and say, listen they are just completely trashed what do you want to do? You cant
send them to hospital. So this sort of arguments I had to move I had to use to move Polish people
so then we left and we left them on that road. Of course, they didn 稚 want us to leave, so they were
abusing us while we were leaving verbally abusing us but that didn 稚 really matter. So all this
situation took, I don 稚 know, maybe fifteen minutes tops, from us meeting in the middle of the
street to the Polish people leaving. It never lasted long, it's not like an hour long situation, it's
usually just bursting out of nowhere and finishing in the same way. . .
In Morecambe there was a Polish street with Polish shops and Polish bakery and Polish hairdresser
and Polish butchers and Oh my God Polish sunbeds Who would think? And obviously whoever was
going through that street and going to them shops 95% of cases is Polish or let's say Czech there
was quite a few Czech living or Lithuanian or Latvian or Slovak. But frankly 95% of people on that
street were Polish, and if the person had a bad day I would be just called a Polish bastard. And I've
been called this hundreds of times. It didn 稚 really bother me any more. . .
I been called Polish bastard hundreds of times (yeurch)
I been called Polish bastard hundred times.
I been called Polish bastard so many times that it doesn 稚 bother me any more . . .
For some people Morecambe does look like an old-school holiday resort, some sort of city where
you would go for a holiday. But it's nothing like that any more. I heard them stories. I heard, of
course, everyone been in Morecambe I don't know why, but everyone been at some point. Oh in the
70s it was really thriving it was better than Blackpool and we had this and that. And then obviously
Blackpool got the pleasure beach and Morecambe lost a little bit in the process. So yes for some
people it does look like a nice holiday town with a lot of kids activity and parks and gardens and
restaurants and so on whatever you want and the beach of course, which is not actually a beach it's
just rocky . . . rocky mud with the water which is actually running away from you in the middle of
the day which is not happening in Poland, frankly. We don't have tides, so that was quite shocking
for us. The water it's here one minute and it's there the other. No, living there is not that nice. It's
not there's nothing to do. There is a skate park there, but that is probably the only thing that was
built for entertainment only like free entertainment . . . A skate park it's on the old bus station in
Morecambe. And it's good, but that's about it. Most of the time oh it's raining all the time as well.
So most of the time we either had to hang out in someone's house, or we had to hang out in some
sort of area or space which would have a little roof. And if you're talking about a group of 15, you
cant really find many places in Morecambe which have a roof and could fit 15 people. So that was

8. always an issue what we were going to do today. And what we did we found the place, usually a bit
bigger than a pub, with a pool table, which everyone could come in and chill while two people are
playing. That was pretty much our afternoons.
Tell me about how you helped other Poles in Morecambe.
When I came to England on that 17th
September 2006 after a 34 hour drive I been shown a text
message, because obviously they knew that I know a little bit of English. And it was a text message
from the employment agency, saying your wages will come tomorrow into your bank account in the
sum of 200 something something pounds. But because I never seen anything like that before, and
because I didn 稚 expect to be tested - my English will be tested I said, oh this is do I have to pay
something, or some money will come to you? I'm not sure. So they were just trying to make a joke
out of me the driver showing me that text trying to make a joke out of me, because he'd been there
like six months, he knew what that text means and he knew that he was gonna receive that text every
week to let him know how much money he was gonna get. I didn 稚 know that so I pretty much
guessed what that text is about. But then after I came home I was obviously presented with a pile of
letters and forms and letters, mainly letters it's a lot of Polish people don 稚 know what is the letter
for, and if they're not sure then they were going to keep it. So every Polish family in England well
not every, but let's say the majority of families in Morecambe had a stack of letters which just came
through the post. Most of them it's just completely a scam or it's spam. It doesn 稚 really matter for
anyone. But because Polish people seen some numbers on it they didn 稚 know exactly what that
means . . . Obviously there was a pile of the letters, but at the same time at the beginning to work in
England we had to get some stuff in place. So the Home Office registration scheme and that form
was hefty and that form asked for everything, including your shoe size, so lot of people struggled
because they didn 稚 exactly know what that question is about. National Insurance Number that
wasn 稚 that bad, but that included an interview. An interview would last half an hour and would be
with an English person without interpreter. So every person who came to England had to go to that
interview and been asked questions by an English person, and a lot of people didn 稚 feel
comfortable enough to go on their own, so I have to go with them. And on top of that of course
you've got all the financial benefits housing benefit, JSA, tax credits you know disability allowances,
income support, whatever you want anything. So all of them forms and letters and conversations
and visits and doctors hospitals I've been on hundreds of those only because I know that I know
English a little bit better than those people and I felt a little bit more confident. I didn 稚 even maybe
know English better, but I was also a little bit more confident about my English abilities. And I wasn
稚 afraid to talk even when it was not really understandable by English people I could repeat.
Reading was a different matter. I could read very well because what else there was to do, you know,
I couldn 稚 talk to anyone, I couldn 稚 hear anyone but I could always read in English in Poland.
There were always English books somewhere lying around. So I was reading quite well, and I
understood what the forms and questions were about so I could fill them in quite easily. And
obviously because I wasn 稚 an expert in it and I didn 稚 want to take responsibility for that work, I
didn 稚 get any money, which doesn 稚 necessarily mean that I wasn 稚 paid. Every time I was
filling up papers for someone and if that would be a dinner time, Polish person would always ask you
if you are at a Polish house at the dinner time you will always be asked if you want some food. And
if you disagree it's pretty much a dishonour for the host. So if you don 稚 want to upset anyone, you
always accept the food, and you eat with the family at the table. So I always had a hot meal if there
would be let's say 4pm every day I would have a letter to translate or form to fill in, I would always
have a hot meal. Some people give me cigarettes, because they were getting like 50 packs from I
don't know from Poland or Spain or somewhere. They were quite happy for me to take a couple of
packs. And coffee I drank a lot of coffee that time. So yeah I didn 稚 take any financial payment for
that, because I was quite good with people so if someone write me today and say I need help, I will
be there tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. I didn 稚 want to leave them too long because the
cases would pile up and I would have to go to six houses in one weekend, which would be just
tiring. So I was doing them continuously for a few years. And then I was employed by a charity
called NCBI (?), and that was the best nine months in Morecambe, definitely. So normally I would

9. do factory job or care assistant job and after my shift I would go to the Polish families to fill out the
forms and papers and translate the conversations and ring the council, etc. . .
While I was living in Morecambe at the beginning, when I was living in Morecambe a lot of Polish
people required my help with forms and letters, so that took a significant amount of my free time as I
was working full time at the same time . . .
While I was living in Morecambe I spent a lot of time helping others with English forms and letters
and papers, and whatever else I was there to do. Once I had to go to Dover that was quite funny.
One of my friend's car crashed there I don 稚 know what 痴 the bridge, I think, there 痴 a name in
English it broke while it was taking off the prom the boat. He took the boat from Dunkirk to Dover
and his car broke and he rang me and he said my battery's dying, I'm in Dover, I have no one to ask
for help we stuck here, we've got no money, no petrol and no help and that was Sunday morning.
While I was sitting at my neighbour's drinking tea, smoking cigarettes and probably filling in some
sort of form again for something, he rang me and he said we need help. So I turned around to
Donna (?) and said listen that's what happening. And he was speaking a bit of English, but not much
and the driver didn 稚 speak any Polish, and we thought it would be quite difficult for them to
communicate, so I was sat in the car while my friend's boss English guy was driving down I just sat
in the back just as a reassurance for them, because they didn 稚 know each other frankly as well. So
(ice cream van). So someone had to pick them up, and because they didn 稚 knew each other and
they couldn 稚 communicate I had to go with them. So we spent three hours . . . driving down and
then 3 and a half hours driving back up . . . We managed in one day. We set off at ten and we were
at home before dawn dusk - sunset . . . I think he was speeding as well, but I didn 稚 care - I was
attached to the seat with a seatbelt so I was quite happy. . .
Tell me about the work the kind of jobs that you did in Morecambe.
When I came because I was called the Wojtech who speaks English the description of me was 鍍 his
Wojtech who speaks English. He was gonna help you with your forms. He was gonna do this and do
that. So it was me and that guy coming in to the employment agency Work Solutions run by the
same company that brought buses full of Polish workers. And because I was the one who could
understand English and could speak a little bit, I was put as a machine operator. So I had a duty to
run that 30 metre long machine which was taking cups, filling it with yoghurt, putting the lid,
pressing the lid, printing the date, putting them into trays, foiling the trays, putting the sticker on the
tray and the last person on the end had to put the trays on the pallet had to just like stack them and
put them to the fridge. It was at least 100 places where that machine could broke, and it was
breaking every two minutes, so I never done even half what I supposed to do. The machine could
do 88000 pots of yoghurt per day per 8 hours, and I never exceed 40,000 of pots per 8 hours for my
shift. So the bosses weren 稚 very happy, I was getting stressed, so I moved to the packer. I wasn
稚 going to stick with that story very long, I was just packing the yoghurt onto the plates. Then I
moved to the dessert factory, which was just next door, so I was sitting in the middle of the fridge,
and putting strawberry into the cup manually. So four people were standing, and the machine would
just put the cups and you would have to take some frozen strawberry and put it in the bottom of the
of this little cup in the front of you ten hours horrible. Then I was a packer in the same factory.
Then I was working I worked in the shop which was a sausage factory, and I worked there for a
good while three weeks which I actually thought it's quite good, because I never lasted that long, like
continuously in one place besides the machine operator, obviously. And after that was yeah, I think
that was it I think I reached 6 months in the factory jobs at the time, and I said that's enough, I cant
do it any more. I think that was the time that was around January, February when I came in
September so September, October, November, December January. February I started work in my
first care home Four Seasons Health Care and I lasted . . . I started working in the Four Seasons
Health Care in February 2007 and I lasted there for one and a half year. They trained me, they give
me all the initial in-house training, and they offered me NVQ2, I think, in social care, which I
refused. And then I was working on the EMI unit, which is basically dementia, schizophrenia,

10. paranoia mostly dementia. So all the people who had severe dementia would be put to the EMI unit
there was 3 different units in the house, but I didn 稚 work very much there. And yeah, someone
didn 稚 like me, really much. Or maybe I pissed off someone, I don 稚 know, I don 稚 know really
what happened one day the boss the secretary rang the unit and said you have to go upstairs, and I
met the boss and her assistant, a scrib, and I was informed that I was reported. I was a key worker
of one gentleman, and they said we found bruises on his body, and someone pointed the finger at you
and accused you of abusing him. So I said ok, so what now? Well, you have to leave, and I was on
suspension for three months four months. I was cleared of the charges, they didn 稚 find anything,
they didn 稚 even ask me for my opinion, frankly, and they asked me to retrain, so do all the initial
training again and come back to work. What they didn 稚 know is that it really upset me, because
they didn 稚 take my statement, they didn 稚 ask did I do anything, or did something happened they
weren 稚 interested in my opinion, and they weren 稚 interested in what I have to say, and what
really pissed me off that after last shift I had to immediately leave the premises without even taking a
shower. After every shift I had a rule that I was taking a shower and then going home, not to to feel
clean. Because it wasn 稚 very clean environment frankly, if you can imagine. So yeah I left home
and then I concentrated because I was paid the minimum obviously I was doing overtime, because I
was paid at minimum which was just enough for bills and rent a little bit of food I concentrated on
helping Polish people, like, you know, hard on. So whoever rang me for whatever reason I was
always agree to help. And I met my friend well, she was my friend after that, but she was a safety
officer, fire safety officer who was checking the fire alarms and smoke alarms in the house houses
because there was a lot of Polish people in the Lancaster area they had to employ a Polish person
well, they didn 稚 had to, but basically they thought that would be easier if the Polish safety officer
would go to the Polish houses in case nobody understands English or in case the person that
understands English is not there. So Magda was the person going to them houses and that 痴 how
we met she came to the house of my ex-fiancto check the fire alarms and I was just there filling some
papers as usual you know, like filling some forms or ringing companies, or council and she said are
you doing this a lot? I said yeah there 痴 plenty of Polish people on West End I mean you can go
and speak with them, everyone knows me just because I was doing this. And she said I've got an
offer for you, and then we start working towards the project called Helping Hand, which I think was
a success. I don 稚 think Magda thinks it was a success, but I think it was. So she had the idea that
because every so often she was going to the Polish house with a like Polish mum and dad and couple
of kids, mum and dad didn 稚 have anyone who could translate the letters, so while Magda had the
task to come in and check the fire alarms and see if everything is right, they were always giving her
letters to translate oh this will just take 5 minutes, this will just take 5 minutes. So a 25 minute visit
which she would have to take 8 per day was taking one and half an hour, because she would have to
sit down and fill some forms for them. And it was hard for her to say no. So she came up with that
project, if she could pull Polish volunteers who want to do that from the Lancaster and Morecambe
area to basically had have a place to ring for them to book the meeting with someone who would be
free at some point so she doesn 稚 have to do it she can concentrate on her work but she doesn 稚
leave them on their own. So we came up with this Helping Hand project I was a volunteer there and
after a month I think we got some funding and I went to interview and I got a job of the project
worker, which was basically what I was doing anyway, but now I was paid for that. I had a nine
month contract because that's what funding we had. They said that the project might exceed nine
months, but the credit crunch came half way through that was 2008/9. So half way through the
project we figured out the government slashing money for the charity projects, so we have no chance
to stay there. But in the meantime my company rang me and said we want you back, we have you
will have to retrain and go back so I went to the training of course, but on Monday they wanted to
start me on Tuesday so on Monday I went in I gived her my uniform and said please send me my P45
back home. And that was it, I didn 稚 go there again. I didn 稚 like it the way they treated me. If
they wanted me back without even saying sorry, then I'm not dealing with this. I was being a little
bit proud, sometimes too much, but at least I'm fair with myself. . .
While I lived in Morecambe I worked in the yoghurt factory in Kendal, dessert factory in Kendal,
sausage factory in Shapp, care assistant Morecambe, interpreter well, project worker Morecambe. . .

11. I was working in the factories, and then I moved to doing a care assistant job, and then I was an
interpreter, and then I was a care assistant again.
You spoke about there being discrimination in the workplace.
Everywhere not only in the workplace. Ignorance.
Tell me about housing.
It's shells, not houses. Most of the houses were not maintained for a decade at least, because there
was no one to live there. The landlords were just keeping it to I don 稚 know write it off for tax or
something. Basically they were just empty houses. Some of them were occupied by squatters and
some homeless people, but I'm not sure that anyone actually lived there before Polish people came.
So yeah I've been in houses where Polish in the houses, in the terraced houses where the Polish
family lives, where there were holes in the walls and like holes in the floor, windows which didn 稚
really close properly, the front doors from the flat, when they were locked by key you could open
them by pushing them a little bit more than hard. Dampness everywhere. Fungi growing on the
ceiling and I don 稚 know if I have it still. Basically, in one house we went into the bathroom and we
found a mushroom growing in the corner on the carpet, like next to the shower and next to the wall
and next to the floor, there was actually the yellow, decent sized mushroom in the bathroom. So
then I realised how much maintenance should be done to the houses to actually make them proper
again. It's not a matter of painting the walls it's everything is damp and crumbling. What happened
was the Polish people who wanted to change a little bit the living habits - so they wanted to move
out from the working hotels, so they want to bring the family, they had to get a flat. They usually at
the beginning it's hardest because you have no references and you don 稚 really know anyone who
would lend you a flat like a private landlord or whoever, a friend of the friend who has a couple of
houses you know it's nothing like that. So you have to go to the letting agent. And they of course
are ridiculously expensive. And they of course don 稚 really care about the maintenance in the flat,
because it's not theirs, it's the landlord. But that was the problem in Morecambe the letting agent
was always blaming the landlord and the landlord was always blaming the letting agent, the Polish
people just got fed up and some point and just said ok I don 稚 want to deal with this any more. So
they end up with the holes in the walls and the ceilings and dampness everywhere, and so on and so
forth. Holes in the roof, after the particularly windy days the rooftails were falling off and there were
just waterfalls in people's houses, and it took days for some people to actually come like landlord or
agent to come and fix this. Basically everyone thought that Polish people came from the place when
we lived in like huts made of shit, and you know, dirt, and we don 稚 have a television and we don
稚 know what 痴 internet is and we still hunt deers and polar bears with the sharp sticks. So frankly
they thought we would be quite happy with this sort of low cost high cost accommodation, because
they didn 稚 invest much but we paid hundred pounds per week for this sort of place. Which was
ridiculously expensive. Even though some places in London cost that much, they would be still
better quality than Morecambe was.
You were talking about ignorance. Let's explore that. What do you perceive in English people? Is
there a sort of general attitude?
I cant say English. I would say both. I would say everyone. There will be some ignorant people in
every nation. It's not only English or it's not only Pakistani, or Indian or Polish. But those who I
meet who are always giving me cringe it's just weird that a person gonna look at someone and go oh
yeah, he's like from Poland or he's from India, so he's gonna live in a barn and eat from the floor.
These sort of assumptions I'm just guessing now, but a lot of people had a very their mind was very
set that people are not equal because they've got different colour of the skin, or because they were
born in a different place, or because they were wearing burkas. Polish people have a really big
problem with burkas and nihabs and . . . Polish people got a big problem with that. They don 稚

12. understand it, they don 稚 want to understand it, and a lot of it it's just ignorance really. But then
against Polish people it was always the same the most crappy jobs were always done by Poles, the
most crappy flats were always occupied by Poles. We paid the highest prices for pretty much
everything obviously not in Morrison 痴 or like Aldi. But if someone see that we are quite new in
this country and we don 稚 really know how it works, they will obviously take anything what they
can. And that what happens quite a few times to me and my friends. I'm egalitarian so I believe in
equality. It doesn 稚 really matter where you're from or who you are or whatever gender or non-
gender or whatever. I believe that everyone should be treated the same and be treated according to
the same rules. So when I seen this sort of dissonance in society it's just annoying that I cant do
anything about that. I cant go to the letting agency and say listen this is family with a little toddler,
with a baby, you cant put them in the flat where there 痴 dampness everywhere, because that baby
will get ill, will get asthmatic, allergic, I don't know, will gonna die. I couldn 稚 do that. They
wouldn 稚 listen to me anyway. So I was always witnessing it with a little bit of anger that I do a lot
for Polish people, you know, all the letters and going to doctors and so on and so forth, but I cant do
the basic things, I cant fix the world. So probably this was the point where I started to think about
education a little bit more. I was quite stubborn as well. I didn 稚 want to go to university for years.
On my first week I went to second week I start working in the yoghurt factory, and I met a friend on
my first or second night. She has children older than me, but she's an amazing woman, she's very
wise, very smart. And she helped me a lot, when I didn 稚 have nowhere to go to and ask and just
speak my mind, she was there for me, listening and giving listening and commenting on it. She never
gave me advice, this was not the sort of person. But just talking to her gave me a lot of confidence
and a lot of understanding what's going on in my life. And because I was on my own obviously, you
know, I didn 稚 have many people to talk to, and my life was quite rapid changing jobs, changing
addresses. I had a new address every well let me put it that way, in five years of my story I had
twelve addresses in Morecambe. Some of them were very short period like a week or two, some of
them were really long like one and a half year. But you can understand the dynamics, how many
times I changed the place. So yeah, she was the friend who told me to go to uni. She said you are
gonna die you are a waste in the yoghurt factory, in any factory frankly. So she said you have to
move somewhere, you have to go and do something. And then many years later I came to the
Princes Trust and I finished a 12 week course, and one session what it when two of us sat down with
a trainer in the room and they said what do you want to do next? And at this particular morning I
woke up and I thought I want to go to uni. And I came in and they said what do you want to do and
I said I wanna go to uni, I want to become a student, I want to go to higher education. And they
said, cool, we will get you sorted. So they rang the UCLAN, they got me an appointment with the
lady from the social work office, and that's how I started my higher education process.
The name of the woman Teresa (x3)
Can you tell me what happened with Wojciech and how you got to know the family and what
happened with the accident and so on?
At one point I was introduced to that family family of five mum and dad family of six mum and dad,
four kids. One kid was severely disabled. She needed 24/7 care, basically. And they were quite
well-established I would say. For my customers they had the best level of interaction between the
England and the English living as a Polish family. But they had been there a couple of years. Always
when you an immigrant and you live among immigrants, usually count your time by oh they're here
that much longer than me or that much shorter than me. So you put yourself in the present, so if I'm
saying they been here two years longer means there is me plus two years, so they now here ten years
because I'm here eight. So they been here a couple of years longer than me and but they got very
complicated stuff which normally people who didn 稚 work with forms or didn 稚 work with the
English system a lot wouldn 稚 really understand or would struggle. And because I had some
experience which I'm saying some, I'm saying every day some letters and that sort of story. And we
start talking, and by the time I'm finished it was 3pm, kids came from home, and I was introduced to
them, to the offspring of the lady. And I don't know, I just happened to be there pretty much every

13. other day and every and later on every day. So my day would be getting up, going to the families,
hitting like five, six addresses during a day between 9 and 3. At 3 going to Lydia's for a chat, have a
coffee, have a cigarette, have a laugh, translate some papers, fill in some forms if there is any. And
kids would come over and I would just be there for afternoon. There was always someone in the
house neighbours or friends or colleagues, there was always someone coming in and out, it was like
a train station, the doors was always open. So they I was just there for them, and I was invited there
for Christmas. I think after Christmas we became quite not close, I wouldn 稚 say close I would
become a daily visitor there. So yeah, the situation would be that I would come in, the kids come in
from the school and I would just spend time with them, like I don't know, show them something on
the laptop or read to them or something like that, something silly, I don't know, something whatever.
And after that they would decide that we were gonna do this now. So Wojtek was not the youngest,
the second youngest, and he would come and take me upstairs and say come and play with me and
do whatever, something. And he was the most enthusiastic to see me every time I was coming there.
After some time, it was summer. I was standing on the road one of the roads in West End. I was
just watching them kicking a ball them which I mean some kids on the road. And one of them one of
Wojtek's friend run out from the alley and shouted to me that Woytek been hit by the car. And my
first reaction was where are we supposed to run. I don't know where is he. So he pointed out and
of course all the group of us just chased him towards the place. It was in the Regent Road. When
we get there the car was standing on the road, the police were there well, the PCSO and Wojtek was
on the floor, and not very well, he didn 稚 look very well. I was quite I wanted him to live I thought
he was gonna be fine, I thought he was gonna manage, but as I was standing there I could see that
it's not really happening. The first thing I had in my head was where is the mum, so obviously I
shouted at someone, I don 稚 know, some random person standing, and I shouted at them in Polish,
and I got their reply I shouted I need a phone. And that lady passed me her mobile, so I typed the
number of mum, Wojtek's mum, and she was like, hello. And I remember Woytek was hit by a car.
And she was, what? We on the Regent Road. Come quick. I hang up and looked at him. There
was a PCSO still with him, and I think around this moment I seen his last breath. Straight after that,
three seconds after that, the PCSO start doing CPR. Two minutes after, the ambulance came. They
put him in. The mum was here already. It didn 稚 take it long to get her, to get there. She got into
the ambulance. They left. And then we went home me, Woytek's brother, Woytech's sister, all the
friends around who been there. We just didn 稚 know what to do, frankly, so we just went home
and we sat down. And I was still actually quite I was believing that he gonna be fine, everything was
gonna be fine. And then we sat down in the living room, and everyone was quiet and miserable, so I
said I would go for some ice cream, because we can wait and eat ice cream. Before I came back I
met mum's friend outside, she was smoking a cigarette, in pieces. And I looked at her and I knew
what happened. I came in and said what happened, what's going on? They said yeah he died in the
hospital. Nobody she received a call from the mum, so she was the first one to know. I was the
second. And she said don't tell the siblings, don 稚 tell anyone. You know, we didn 稚 want to do it
to them before the parents come back. So I went to the kitchen, get the ice cream out, and then it
struck me and I start shaking and I couldn 稚 actually stand straight. I had to sit down. It was really
hard. I had millions of feelings in my head and I was just not fair that a 7 year old kid who was really
lively and good and never hurt anyone had to die in that dreadful way. And it seemed to me that it's
just too surreal to get by. So obviously the ceremony the funeral ceremony we attended. And after
that the mum became really spiky towards me. I'm not entirely sure what happened, but obviously
something happened, someone told her something and she didn 稚 like it, or she just thought that my
name is not really much appropriate now, because it brings up memories. I don 稚 know, something
happened. And she said, well you cant come over here much longer. So I said I cant just stop going,
because the kids will go mad. I mean you cant do this to them, not right now. So I said I will be
coming more rarely with telling them that I've got something to do. So I start coming like 2 times a
week, then it was once a week, then it was once a fortnight, once a month, and they figured it out
that the mum doesn 稚 like me any more. So we stayed in touch. I gave them my mobile, my email,
I said when you grow up, when you've got some questions, when you need to speak to someone, if
you need anything just give me a call. They were kids at the time obviously, but I knew they were
going to grow and who else I mean, I don 稚 want to sound like a massive superhero, but if there

14. could be anyone who could relate to their life before the accident, that would be me. And I didn 稚
want them to think that yeah because Wojtek is not there I'm not going to talk to you any more or
anything like that. It wouldn 稚 be fair. So frankly a few years later one of the kids, the oldest,
applied and came to this uni. And she just finished her first year. So we met in Preston. So that was
good. And we still talking and it's fine. The difference is I'm not going to her house. I think they
still got some stuff against me I don't know, I don 稚 really want to know.
Tell me about the name, Wojcech.
It's . . . from the old slovian language. It means the person who fights. The person who is on the
first line of the warriors during the battle, or just before the battle. And usually the person has a very
well strong character, strong personality. The person who carries the name has a strong personality.
They're brave, they're quite feisty and they have a strong personality. . .
It has a meaning in the old slovian language . . .
So you went to UCLAN . . .
I become wiser, I become older, I become more mature or maybe not. Maybe I just become the
opposite of mature. Maybe I was more mature when I was doing all that work and now I'm just
crazy student enjoying myself, I don 稚 know. It definitely opened my eyes to many things. . .
University definitely opened my eyes to many things, definitely university environment. . . (flatmate
arrives).
Tell me about university.
University opened my eyes. It made me understand a lot of things a bit better. It showed me that
the environment has a massive can have a massive impact. And it was the second best decision in my
life to go to uni. The first best decision was obviously coming to England, because without that I
wouldn 稚 be here. And I wouldn 稚 even believe in myself enough to actually be here. What I was
doing in Morecambe not only give me enough education about the system in England and
bureaucracy and how much you love paper and all that stuff, and how much you and how you think,
because the forms are built on the way you think. If I'm filling the forms and I can understand the
question I can relate to your perspective on what do you want to know or how do you understand
this particular aspect of living of someone else's life. So that was good, that was really important.
And then the confidence. After the Wojtech's accident I couldn 稚 really function very well I mean I
did function, but it was more like an existence rather than living. So Magda the same friend who put
me to the Helping Hand project decided that she was going to refer me to the Prince's Trust, and
these people actually really helped me out. At the beginning and at the end of the course you always
have a self-scoring system, so you score yourself before the course where you are with your
emotions, finance, work, experience whatever happiness, general happiness. So my score was 3 and
a half. At the end of the course my score was 8 and a half. And I was at UCAS at the time, because
she said the lady at UCLAN said you have to do this and you have to do that, so when I start moving
the going to uni forward I knew it would be hard, I knew that it would be a lot of papers and forms
and it will be difficult, but I can manage. So I let myself have a year to get this sorted. After the
Princes Trust I started a job and I stayed there 11 and a half months. I finished in August 2010 and
in September I was in foundation entry. So the death of the Wojtek's death tragic death and then the
Princes Trust, and then going to uni are really interlinked. I don 稚 want to say it was a consequence
of one another, but because of the changes which happened in me in my character and personality
and my experience all my experiences which actually affected me inevitably led me to do what I'm
doing now in some way. It sounds really philosophical, but I cant explain it myself. I don 稚 know
how someone 痴 death could lead me to university, but I'm sure that without that I would still be
stuck in Morecambe doing some crappy jobs or working in some sort of warehouse driving a forklift.
Where I'm sure I would be doing a lot for the community, I would definitely, you know, I would be

15. beneficial to society, I would pay my taxes and, you know, this sort of stuff. But I don 稚 know if I
would be happy at the same time. So as much this sounds very weird. Everything what happened
led me to here in the very weird path.
Tell me how you got involved with Europia.
It was a placement. I came back from Erasmus on my second year I was away for 2 semesters first
semester in Estonia, second semester Czech republic amazing. I came back and I was informed that
we have to do placements. In the second semester of the 3rd
year we had to do 300 hours of
structural work experience. Everyone decided that they were gonna work with Age UK or Cancer
Research or some sort of charity for kids. And I didn 稚 want to really do that because, as much as I
believe that kids are the future and we supposed to take care of them and we not supposed to allow
the bad people to make an influence on them etc. I thought there was definitely too much attention
going into this. So I wanted to do a little bit different way. And I wanted to work with immigrants
what I've done in Morecambe, but on a little bit different level. I wanted to approach it from more
institution point of view, and see if I can change something on a little bit higher than the individual's
life maybe a community, maybe a family, maybe a few families. I found them in Manchester . . . I
found Europia on internet in Manchester. The same day I rang Kush, and I ask if he needs some
help, like he needs some people to work. And he said what you can do and I said well, I can speak
Polish, if that helps. He said yeah yeah, you can do interpreting. And I was explained what I was
doing in Morecambe for a few years as a volunteer and as a project worker, and then as a volunteer
again, because the last year I was helping with this as well. So he said ok, you will be coming for
drop-in sessions, and you will be interpreting between me or the previous boss of Europia and the
customer itself. And because I was in the Czech republic and Estonia for a couple of semesters, I
met many people from different countries, so I could understand Czech good at a decent level. So
basically I didn 稚 have to think what they saying, I knew straight away, just because I heard Czech
language long enough while I was in Czech republic. I speak Ukrainian, so if anyone from this sort
of Europe would come I could help them as well. Slovak I understand Slovak very well. Slovenian
I met a couple of Slovenian people and by the time the semester finished I could understand
Slovenian as well not as good as Czech and Ukrainian, but basically when you have a grasp of one
language or a couple of languages it's becoming quite easy to understand what they saying. So they
were quite happy for me to stay because the Slovak people came over so I could interpret for them.
The Czech people came over, I could interpret for them. You know, I was quite a useful asset.
Can you give me an idea just what exactly you do when you say interpret. What does that involve?
When you go into Europia what exactly do you do?
That 痴 what I said Kush or the previous boss, the benefits advisor sits on one side of the table and
the client sits on the other, and I interpret whatever they want to achieve from them and I have to
just accede I have to share the information, and back. So its not (?) this translation I don 稚 translate
what I hear at the same time. They talking to me and I translate and they talking back, and that's just
interpreting, if that makes sense.
And you do some work with other organisations with Breathe?
Well, not yet. I'm having and interview soon, but because this is my professional contact, I met one
of the workers of Breathe, and we made a conference together well, my group made a conference
and we invited them to join as a local organisation. So they were quite impressed with the level of
our conference in the amount of workshops we done and general maintenance of it. And I said if
you've got some events going on, then I'm quite happy to help. So they said yeah yeah just come for
an interview and we were gonna put you in. So that will be the second thing I'm gonna do. And
then in September I'm starting my MA, so I will have to put those three together, which will be quite
fun.

16. So that takes us to the future. I mean, my last question is, what 痴 in store for the future and how
do you feel about the future?
Scared. Because I've realised that in Morecambe I was kind of a little bit stuck up. I was always
modest, but I was a little bit like, oh I know how to get the house benefit or how to fill the tax credit
form. And the people always rang me because they wanted something, so I become a little bit self-
important. When I came to uni I realised that I know nothing, and the more I learned the more I don
稚 know about the world and the more there is to discover and the more questions come about and
them questions needs answers and then you cant really answer some of them. So I understood that it
wont be that easy to change the world, it wont be just a matter of filling a couple of forms and
translating a few letters and making a few phone calls, it will be much harder to actually make a
difference . . .
Changing the world that's kind of a big ambition.
I'm an optimist (?)
So what do you want to achieve?
Change the world, make it a little bit better place than before I came here. . . My biggest dream and
a plan and something that I want to achieve before I die it's change the world, make it a better place
to be after I die than before I was born. I don't know how I've got a few vague ideas they not very
constructed just yet, but the first thing I need is an education, and you cant underestimate the
education it's everything. And I believe that I can get somewhere, but I need some people to listen,
and without the proper qualification not many people will because I'm Polish, because I'm gay, I don
稚 know, because I'm white. I don 稚 know what was the reason not to listen to me, but I know if I
have a proper qualification some people will, and those some people might get persuaded to believe
in what I believe in diverse egalitarian society, which doesn 稚 look at the difference as something
bad, but can celebrate it and make it look as something good, as something which should be proud of
that we are different from one another, but we equal at the same time. So now the plan is before I
was change the world or maybe I'm starting already a little bit I will continue with my education. So
after finishing BA in June and graduating this year, I'm starting Masters in social work on my alma
mater I'm not going far and that will happen for the next 2 years. And what will happen after you
will have to ask me in two years. I'm not reaching that far yet. But yeah I need to do some stuff
before I die, so I think I will be quite busy, if you know what I mean.
We haven 稚 spoken about your sexuality since the beginning and that felt like a really big thing
when we first spoke -
It is. Well, I mean, I suppose sexuality can be a big thing, you know, it's not like you think about
your lover or your wife like every five minutes or you relate to it oh because I'm straight I have to do
this because I'm gay I have to do something else. It was a big thing because people were pointing
out that oh this makes you a worse person or this makes you a sinner ill, you know whatever you
attach to it I don't care, I really don 稚 listen to them people any more, but when people highlight
this to someone else then it becomes quite important, because they know that this is what the people
look at. Like there is a saying, in the country of blind people the person with one eye will be a king.
That 痴 pretty much it, but in the reverse. So in the country where everyone is straight, the gay
person will be the one to blame for I don 稚 know everything floods, storms, problems in the
Catholic church whatever they will find a way to blame them. When I came here and I realised that
nobody cares seriously if there are people that care they usually shut up faster than I can say it than I
can say it out loud oh yeah this is not nice. If there is a nasty comment made about gay people or
gayness in any way, someone comes out with a good argument faster than I do. And they're not
usually gay because I'm not usually hanging out with gay people all the time obviously. That would

17. be quite hard. But the point is that I don 稚 have to say anything, because people here just don 稚
care, they know that it's not important. So I stopped caring in the matter of I don 稚 put this as my
main identity. I am a gay Polish guy and that's how I present myself that 痴 just one of the identities
which define a person it's their sexuality, but it's not the most important of all obviously. It isn 稚 like
nationality or hair colour or skin colour, but yeah I had to come here, I had to see that you don 稚
have to put it on the spotlight, you don 稚 have to speak about that. Nobody cares who you sleep
with. Nobody really if I was to come to the pub and start talking about it, people would just lost
interest because nobody really cares about that, so you just stop talking about it, and essentially you
stop thinking about it as something important. And then you become normal lets say in the very
loose definition of normal, because I don 稚 agree with the normal world, but yeah that's what the
normal part of me says.
I just want to go back to Europia just to cover that again. What 痴 your perception of Europia as an
institution, as an organisation what it's doing and what it is capable of achieving?
I'm not sure. I would like to say that now this will be funny because Kush will gonna watch that I
have a lot of faith in Europia. I think they've got good ideas. I think they've got good people as well
me being modest. But the thing is I would like to I will continue to volunteer for them I wont gonna
stop and I discussed that with Kush, that when I go to MA I'm not stopping to see you, I will be
coming at the weekends, I will be doing translation continuously just because I want to see where it
goes just because I'm not a board member, I'm just a simple volunteer like a front line volunteer who
works with the Polish community at the floor level, it doesn 稚 mean that I don 稚 want to be
involved, but I would like to see them developing it. I don 稚 want to be too much into this at least
right now, but I would like to see the development of the agency and I would like to see them
growing and expanding and using all that good energy and positive attitude towards immigrants
which sounds really weird, but yes they do have a positive attitude towards migrants from Eastern
Europe. I want to see that making change, getting a little bit more voice. Europia is a tiny
organisation. That 痴 why I don 稚 know how this were gonna go, but I got faith that they weren 稚
gonna stop and they will continue to develop and they will continue to use their good ideas for the
good cause. And hopefully I will be still there to support them and give my time.
Would you say they've helped you?
Yes. In my third year everyone knows you have to write a dissertation . . .
30% of homeless people are from Eastern Europe. From 5% in 2004 to 31% in 2009 that's how
much it jumped Eastern Europeans that's how much the percentage of homeless people . . . In 2004
only 5% of homeless people were from eastern Europe. So they were migrants. In 2009 30% of
homeless people were from Eastern Europe. So what happened was the migrants who came here for
work, to start establishing a new life, earning some money, helping supporting the family, at some
point become homeless. So they failed, they didn 稚 manage to stay on the top, you know, having
the job and the house and so on, and I wanted to find the patterns, if there is any the common
patterns which would lead me to establish some sort of yeah people with moustache will become
homeless that 痴 just an example, a silly example, but I wanted to find some common patterns which
people would progress. So I wrote the survey, I translated it into two languages, and I went to the
Boot shelter in Manchester and I done it because Kush was working with them before, so I said I
will give you my services and you were gonna help me with my research. And this is what I want to
do and then with Kush we discussed this and he sent me there and I gave the surveys out, they filled
them in, I went back home, I analysed the data, wrote the report, and yeah I think I got 2:1.
And what did you discover?
That there's no common patterns. It's not that easy as I imagined. I discovered that many Polish
people does not end up on the streets because of for example alcohol abuse. Everyone knows that

18. homeless people abuse substances yes it's true, but they not end up on the street because they abuse
substances. The street reinforce the lack of faith and the lack of hope and that what pushes them
towards substance abuse. A lot of people see this as well as a cultural thing. They don 稚 have to
drink, but when they end up on the street because of lack of a job, because of disability, lack of
money I don 稚 know personal tragedy anything what happened to push them over the edge and
make them end up on the street will then reinforce them drinking, because everyone else is drinking.
Like the Polish people would gather together the homeless people and they would sit down and
drink. Not only Polish people, English homeless people do exactly the same, they gather, the drink,
they exchange information where to get clothes where to get food. Many of them are quite smart
and they are semi-educated. A few of them finished A-levels, some of them have a very good job like
a skill, like you know like if they go for a six month training they could end up in a semi-
professional job like IT or architecture, or you know, they have a passion which they didn 稚 actually
developed, because of their life. And what I discovered that a lot of them are not Polish, so the
biggest group of immigrants are from eastern Europe, from A8 countries from the 2004 expansion of
the European union. 70% are Polish and then its 8% Czech, 7% Slovak, 5% Lithuanian. So the
biggest bunch are Polish. But within the homeless community there is let's say 50% Polish and 50%
rest of them. So really to find the true picture of how the homeless society looks like from the
Eastern European point of view I would have to have Polish survey, English survey and Russian
survey . . . I realise that making research is not an easy thing, but now I know what to do, I know
how to prepare and if I want to go to (real world?) again and actually make the survey I know where
I made the mistakes. So I don 稚 see it as a complete waste of time. And Kush said that because
you're working with Eastern Europeans we can use that research as a piece of the work that we can
spread, because Europia has a plan to actually establish the research team, which would be just
generating data to help them to get funding . . .
So this is what I gained. I went to the big wide world, got scared, because it's not a nice place. I've
been let out from academia thinking oh yeah I'm gonna, you know, change the world, and then I go
to Booth centre and I can see all of them real faces not cases, not the study cases on a piece of paper,
but real humans with feelings and emotions and tragedies and lives before and after them the lives
they lived and the lives they were gonna live. And I had to talk to them and it scared me that it's still
so much to do that's my plan.