Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management

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CMH OCR RMR CRR FCRR
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
EASTERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
- - - - - - - - - - - - - X
VERONIKA CHAUCA, :
10-CV-5304(ENV)
Plaintiff :
-against- : United States Courthouse
Brooklyn, New York
PARK MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS,
LLC, et al., :
April 14, 2015
Defendant. : 10:00 o'clock a.m.
- - - - - - - - - - - - X
TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE ERIC N. VITALIANO
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a jury.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff: LAW OFFICE OF ANNE DONNELLY BUSH
8 Main Street
Hastings-on-Hudson, NY 10706-1646
BY: ANNE DONNELLY BUSH, ESQ.
For the Defendants: ARTHUR H. FORMAN, ESQ.
98-20 Metropolitan Avenue
Forest Hills, NY 11375
Court Reporter: Charleane M. Heading
225 Cadman Plaza East
Brooklyn, New York
(718) 613-2643
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
produced by computer-aided transcription.

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146
(In open court; outside the presence of the jury.)
THE CLERK: The case on the calendar is the Chauca
versus Park Management Center LLC. Case number 10-CV-5304.
Counsel, please note your appearances beginning with
plaintiff's counsel.
MS. BUSH: Anne Bush for Veronika Chauca.
Good morning, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Good morning, Ms. Bush.
MR. FORMAN: For the defendant, Arthur H. Forman.
THE COURT: Good morning, Mr. Forman.
THE CLERK: Both sides are present.
THE COURT: Both sides are ready, are we ready for
the jury?
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, I did ask about an
assistant hearing device for my client especially if he is
going to be testifying today. He did have a little problem
with yesterday and they said that they were going to get in
touch with your court clerk.
THE COURT: Have we heard anything?
THE CLERK: I was not called, but I can send an
e-mail.
MR. FORMAN: I was down in the computer room. He
said he would be coming up.
THE CLERK: And I believe he was up, but I wasn't
sure why.

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147
MR. FORMAN: I think that's what it was.
THE CLERK: I will find out what's going on.
MR. FORMAN: Okay.
THE COURT: And who are you calling first?
MS. BUSH: I'm calling Dr. Abraham.
THE COURT: So you want him first?
MS. BUSH: If it's a problem, I can switch him
around. It's not an issue for me.
THE COURT: You can take the other defendant first
and see if we can get the device installed.
MR. FORMAN: He also would like to hear what's said
while the trial is going on. He was struggling yesterday,
especially when they were, discussions from the bench.
THE COURT: I wish I had a magic cure for that,
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: He's willing to give it a try.
THE COURT: William is going to try to get him a
device, but we will proceed. If Ms. Bush wants to take the
co-defendant first, that will give us more time to try to get
somebody from IT to install whatever it is that we have.
MR. FORMAN: Dr. Abraham would like to go first and
if he can hear, he thinks he'll be able.
THE COURT: Okay. That is fine. We will still
endeavor to try to get that device for him. I will say I have
not seen one during my time here, so I do not know that it

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actually exists, but if the IT people think it does exist,
then we will be more than happy to see what we can do.
William and I were just chatting about that. We
know the interpreters have headphones.
MR. FORMAN: That's what it is. It's a wireless
headphone.
THE COURT: I do not know if they are -- are they
wireless?
THE CLERK: Yes, they are wireless. Yes.
THE COURT: But he would be wearing a headset during
his testimony. If we can get one of those, you have no
problem with that, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: No, that's what I saw someone carrying
this morning. I don't know if it was for the stenographer or
the witness.
THE COURT: Usually the interpreters have that
device, particularly when we have multiple defendants.
MR. FORMAN: I think it would be better than not
having it.
THE COURT: Okay. William is going to endeavor to
get that done.
THE CLERK: Sure.
THE COURT: And to the extent that we, it comes up
and we need to take a brief break to get him caught up, we
will do that, but I think we should proceed so we do not lose

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the time in the interim.
(Jury enters.)
THE COURT: Be seated, please.
Counsel will stipulate that the jury is present and
properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: And the defendants, too.
THE COURT: Defendants are present as well.
Ladies and gentlemen, good morning. Welcome. We
certainly appreciate your promptness, your patience and
cooperation. We are ready to resume proceedings.
We have a couple of technical glitches that we can
try to resolve during the course of the day, but we think we
can go forward at this time and if you recall, we were on
plaintiff's case. We continue to be on the plaintiff's case
and Ms. Bush tells us she has another witness.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to call Dr. Jamil Abraham,
please, to the stand.
THE COURT: Dr. Abraham.
THE CLERK: Please raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Please state your full name and spell it
for the record.
THE WITNESS: My name is Abraham, A-B-R-A-H-A-M. My
first name is J-A-M-I-L.

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Abraham - direct - Bush
150
THE CLERK: Thank you. Please have a seat, please.
THE COURT: Be seated.
Ms. Bush, you may inquire.
JAMIL ABRAHAM ,
called as a witness, having been first duly sworn,
was examined and testified as follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Good morning, Dr. Abraham.
A Good morning.
Q Can you hear me okay?
A Yes, I do.
Q Where do you live?
A I live in Fresh Meadows, 73-33 174th Street, New York
11366.
Q Is that a house or an apartment?
A A house.
Q And do you own that house?
A No.
Q Who owns it?
A A trust owns it.
Q Who?
A A trust.
Q A trust?
A Correct.

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Q Who do you live there with?
A I live with Ann Marie Garriques.
Q You live together as domestic partners?
A We live together.
Q How long have you been living together?
A About 13 years.
Q Thirteen years. What do you do for a living?
A I'm a doctor. I'm just retiring. I am a doctor.
Q Where do you work?
A I don't work now actually. I used to work at 131-24
Rockaway Boulevard.
Q What's the name of that office there?
A It's Park Health Center.
Q Are you employed by Park Health Center?
A No. I own Park Health Center.
Q Do you receive a salary from Park Health Center?
A No.
Q Did you ever receive a salary from Park Health Center?
A I used to.
Q From when until when?
A I just tailed off my practice for the last three or four
years. Park Health Center is not doing much work. I, I
submit bills as J.M. Abraham, M.D., P.C., doing business as
Park Health Center. So Park Health Center is me.
Q When did you last receive a salary from the business?

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A Probably a year ago.
Q A year ago. Why did you stop taking a salary?
A As I said, we're tailing down. I'm 86 years old. I
can't carry on anymore. So it was just tail end. Just to --
I go there, I do occasional seeing a patient. Usually I don't
see any patients. Just administration is all.
Q You just do administration now?
A Correct.
Q So who runs the business at Park?
A I still own it.
Q But who runs it on a day-to-day level?
A I run it. There's no, there's no day-to-day element. I
run it when I'm there. So, when I'm there, I just administer
the last few patients we have a year ago, two years ago, and
somebody occasionally asks me see an x-ray or image. That's
all I do now.
Q How many days a week do you work at Park?
A I usually go every day.
Q And when you're not there, who runs the day-to-day
operations?
A Over there is, there are doctors there. There's about
ten, ten doctors. They work on their own and there's a
manager and the people run the office.
Q Who's the manager?
A The manager is Ann Marie Garriques.

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Q She's the manager of Park, is that correct?
A There's manager at Park, yeah.
Q Ann Marie is the manager at Park, is that your testimony?
A Correct.
Q What are Ann Marie's job duties?
A Duties is to see the day-to-day running of the facility,
scheduling the patients, scheduling the employees, make sure
the violations are taken care of, make sure all the machines
are accredited, up to standard, make sure that the
cleanliness, the file works, the telephones, the computers do
work properly.
THE COURT: And those were her responsibilities when
Ms. Chauca was an employee?
THE WITNESS: Correct.
Q How many employees are there at Park today?
A There are probably about 30 employees.
Q 3-0?
A Well, you can't say -- they're not employees of Park.
Park Health Center is me, J. Abraham, M.D., P.C. They're
employees of the facilities.
For example, there is department of physiotherapy.
They're employed in that department. The department, the
pediatrics, they're employees of that department. The
employees of the imaging department, that's the x-ray, MRI,
things like that, and they're employees of that department.

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They're not employees to me personally.
Q They're employees of the business, is that correct?
A Not the employees of Park Health Center, no.
Q What's the name of the business they're employed by?
A As I said, for example, the physiotherapy is, is called
Adam Cohen, DPH, I think, PC. That's the physiotherapy. The
neurology is called South Queens Neurological Associate, PLLC.
The employees of the imaging is South Queens Imaging, PC.
Depending on the department they work for.
Q What business is Ann Marie Garriques employed by?
A I think she's paid by the medical group which is called
South Queens Medical Associates Group, or something of this
nature.
THE COURT: And was that the case during the time
period that Ms. Chauca was employed?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: No? What was -- when did --
THE WITNESS: This is started about two years ago,
2013.
THE COURT: So let's focus on, Ms. Bush, the
relevant time.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So between 2006 and 2009, who was Ms. Garriques employed
by?

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A Well, to be honest with you, I think it's, it's Park
Management Systems.
Q And what happened to Park Management Systems?
A It still existing but it's tailing down a bit.
Q How many employees did Park Management Systems have
between 2006 and 2009?
A Around 30, 31, 32, 35.
Q And how many employees does it have today?
A The same number.
Q Is it your testimony that Ms. Garriques is no longer
employed by Park Management Systems?
A No.
Q Okay. Is Ms. Garriques employed by Park Management
Systems today?
A No. Park Management System is tailing down and the group
I just mentioned is taking over for the last two years.
Q Is it your testimony that Ms. Garriques is employed by
Park Management Systems today?
A No.
Q When did she stop being employed by Park Management
Systems?
A Since middle of 2013 when the group was established.
Q Okay. But it's your testimony that Park Management
Systems has 30 employees?
A No. At the moment, they don't have no employees.

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Q Park Management Systems, is that a viable business today
as we speak?
A Well, it's being tailing, tailing off. We are -- Park
Management System and Park Health Center, which I usually run
with, it was just the tail end of now. We do have only few
business to do. We don't have employees for that.
Q So Park Management Systems, that's a business that no
longer exists, is that correct?
A It does exist but we tailing it off.
Q And where did all the employees go?
A They were taken over by the group.
Q The name of the group is?
A I've just said South Queens Medical Group Associates.
Q Was it sold to South Queens Medical Associates?
A No, still existing.
Q So, all the employees from Park Management Systems have
been transferred to South Queens, is that correct?
A You can say that, yes.
Q Has Park Management Systems -- sorry. Strike that.
Okay.
THE COURT: Doctor, when you use the expression
"tailing off," is that an expression that has significance in
the medical profession?
THE WITNESS: You mean is the medical term, sir?
THE COURT: Is it an expression that relates to the

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way physicians retire from their practice?
THE WITNESS: The physician runs it, it's me, and
I'm retiring. There's only a few, you know -- there's some
few, few bills to be, recaptured. There are a few
administrative things to be done. We have a few bills to be
paid.
THE COURT: But you are also seeing patients from
time to time?
THE WITNESS: Nearly none, just -- no, no,
occasionally. Very occasionally, occasionally.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Did Ms. Garriques receive a salary from Park Management
Systems between 2006 and 2009?
A Yes.
Q Does she receive a salary today?
A Yes.
Q From Park -- from Park Management Systems?
A No.
Q Who does she receive her salary from?
A From the group.
Q And the group's name is?
A South Queens Medical Group, I think, PLLC, I'm not sure.
THE COURT: And do you have an interest in that
group, Doctor, you personally?
THE WITNESS: Yes.

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Q What kind of interest is that, please, sir?
A I'm one of the organizers.
Q Do you have a financial interest in the group?
A Not really, no.
Q What do you mean, is that a yes or a no?
A I get no salary from it.
Q Do you have any financial interest?
A No.
THE COURT: Do you get return on investment?
THE WITNESS: No.
Q So what reason were the employees of Park Management
Systems transferred to South Queens Medical Group PLLC?
A Because Park Management System and Park Health Center
were tailing off.
Q What does that mean, sir?
A It means they are not doing much business. We're nearly
closing it, but we have a few accounts receivable, a few bills
to be paid. That's why it's tailing off.
Q So all the employees were transferred from Park
Management Systems to South Queens Medical Group?
A Well, some of them were taken to the other entities.
There's a neurological entity, there's a --
Q You don't need to repeat that.
THE COURT: Did those entities that you articulated
earlier, did they exist as legal entities during the period of

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time that Ms. Chauca worked for Park Management?
THE WITNESS: Some of them were, yes.
THE COURT: Did the physical therapy entity exist
during the period as a separate legal entity during the period
2006 to 2009?
THE WITNESS: No, it didn't.
THE COURT: And during that period, Ms. Chauca
worked for Park Management?
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So what was the address of Park Management Systems
between 2006 and 2009?
A It's the same address. 131-24 Rockaway Boulevard.
Q Same address as what, sir?
A Same address as the other entities. They are four
buildings joined together. There's 131-24, 131-22, 131-18,
131-20, 131-16. Four building joined together under one, one
property, which is 131-24 Rockaway Boulevard.
Q And the employees who worked at Park Management Systems,
they're still physically in the same building today?
A Some of them are, yes.
Q Was there a time that you owned that building?
A I don't own the building.
Q Was there a time that you owned that building?
A No.

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Q Is it your testimony that you never owned that building?
THE COURT: You mean him personally?
MS. BUSH: Personally.
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you ever own that business as part of a corporation
that you belong to?
A I don't understand the question. Repeat again?
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question, please?
THE COURT: Let me try to clarify it.
Was there an entity -- let's lay the foundation.
When you worked in 2006 through 2009 with Park
Management, who owned the building that you worked in?
THE WITNESS: It was owned by, by a trust.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q What's the name of the trust?
A South Queens Property PC.
Q Do you have any kind of interest, financial or otherwise?
THE COURT: Any relationship at all to the trust?
Q Do you have any relationship at all with the trust?
A The trust belongs to my children.
Q The trust belongs to your children?
A Correct.
Q What are the names of your children, please?
A Five boys. Robby Abraham.
Q Robby?

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A Robby.
Q Okay. And what's his date of birth?
A He's 45 years old. I don't know date of birth.
The second one is --
Q Where does he live?
A In Israel.
Q Okay. Who else owns the trust?
A What was the question?
Q Who else?
A The second one is Alfred Abraham.
Q Alfred?
A Yes.
Q What's his date of birth?
A He's about 41, 42 years old now.
Q And where does he live?
A He lives in California.
Q Okay. Continue.
A The third one is his twin. He is called Benjamin
Abraham.
Q Yes. And how old is he?
A He's a twin.
THE COURT: That was a trick question.
MS. BUSH: Sorry.
Q Where does he live, Benjamin?
A In Westchester.

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Q Westchester.
Who else?
A The third is Irwin Abraham.
Q Yes. Age?
A Subtract two from the other one.
Q Thirty-nine.
A You could say that, yes.
Q Where does he live?
A He live in Long Island.
Q And the last one?
A The last one Joe, Joe Abraham, Joey, Joseph, J-O-E-Y.
Q How old is he?
A There's a gap between them, between the last one and the
fifth one is probably seven-year gap.
Q Fifty-two years old?
A Could be, yes.
Q He lives where?
A He lives in Israel.
Q And your five sons now own the trust?
A Correct.
Q When did they -- what date did they begin to own the
trust?
A From the start.
Q What date, please?
A I don't recall the start.

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THE COURT: Before or after 2009?
THE WITNESS: 2000 -- before.
THE COURT: Before or after 2006?
THE WITNESS: Before.
Q And who -- between 2006 and 2009, who owned Park
Management Systems LLC?
A It's a management system which was owned by two of my
boys.
Q Two of your sons?
A Correct.
Q Okay. Which two sons?
A It was Alfred Abraham and Ronnie Abraham and -- yes, I
think these two.
Q And when did they cease to own it?
THE COURT: If they did.
Q If they did.
THE COURT: Do they still own it?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q They still own it as we speak today?
A Yes. As I said, the dates are very fuzzy to me, but --
THE COURT: Is it still in existence?
THE WITNESS: Yes, it's still in existence.
Q And it's owned by your sons?
A Correct.
THE COURT: Did any of your sons at any time during

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the period 2006 to 2009 have any active involvement in the
operations of Park Management or any other entity operated at
the location on Rockaway that you gave us?
THE WITNESS: Other than Park Management System.
THE COURT: Did they actually have an involvement in
operating it?
THE WITNESS: No, I operated it.
Q Did Park Management Systems pay you a salary between the
years 2006 and 2009?
A No.
Q Did they pay Ann Marie Garriques's salary?
A Yes.
Q Ms. Garriques is currently employed at Park Health
Center, is that correct?
A No. She's employed by the group.
Q The group, the name of the group is?
A I just mentioned the group, South Queens Medical Group
PLLC.
THE COURT: You have a understanding, when he says
"group," that is what he means, unless he tells us it is some
other group.
Do you understand that, Doctor?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. There's only one group.
Q So between 2006 and 2009, Ms. Garriques -- I'm sorry. Is
it Garriques or Garriques?

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A You ask her, she says Garriques.
Q Okay. Between 2006 and 2009, was Ms. Garriques employed
by Park Health Center?
A No.
Q Or Park Management Systems?
A Park Management Systems.
Q And she received a salary, you just testified.
A Correct.
Q The plaintiff, Ms. Chauca, was also employed by Park
Management Systems, correct, sorry, between 2006 and 2009?
A Correct.
Q So in your role as the owner of Park, did you interview
potential employees between 2006 and 2009?
A You mean Park Health Center? Yes, I did. Yes.
Q Did anybody else interview potential employees?
A Usually I interviewed them and Ann Marie Garriques
interviewed them, and if they work for a special doctor, he
interviews them, too.
Q Your testimony is that Ms. Garriques also interviewed
potential employees between 2006 and 2009?
A Correct.
Q Anybody else interview potential employees?
A I just said, I just said if the person is willing to go,
to work for a special doctor, say, a gynecologist or a
physiotherapist or x-ray person, he has to interview them,

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too.
Q You personally interviewed Ms. Chauca, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Ms. Garriques interviewed Ms. Chauca?
THE COURT: Upon, on her hiring?
MS. BUSH: On her hiring, yes.
A Yes, I interviewed her. I usually interview the person
and then I'll tell the office manager this is the person who
I'm agreed to their being employed and we agree on a salary
and we agree where they work.
Q Between 2000 --
THE COURT: Excuse me.
MS. BUSH: Sorry.
THE COURT: When you say "agree," who are you
agreeing with, you and Ms. Garriques, or you and the employee?
THE WITNESS: And the employee.
THE COURT: You and the employee.
So you interview them, you agree on a salary and a
place where they're going to work.
THE COURT: And then they see Ms. Garriques?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Does she also interview them?
A Or in consultation. If I see a person and I said, I will

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ask her, I know their potential, I know where they fit in, and
then I asking Marie where I think they should be put and we
agree, both of us, all the three of us, on the salary, on the
hours of work and the days of work and where they should go.
Q Do you and Ms. Garriques -- sorry, between 2006 and 2009,
did you and Ms. Garriques make joint decisions about who to
employ?
A So-so, yes.
Q Is that yes or no?
A I said yes.
Q Between 2006 and 2009, you hired staff, is that correct?
A Yes. Yes.
Q And at that same time period, did Ms. Garriques hire
staff?
A Yes. We do together.
Q Do you have a business partnership together of any
nature?
A No.
Q Did you ever between 2006 and 2009?
A No.
THE COURT: During that time period, did
Ms. Garriques report to you or anybody else?
THE WITNESS: I didn't hear.
THE COURT: During the period 2006 through 2009 in
her position as office manager, did Ms. Garriques report to

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anyone?
THE WITNESS: She reports to the doctors if there's
a problem or with the patient, and then reports to me
regarding administration.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Between 2006 and 2009, did you ever fire staff at Park?
A No.
Q Did you have the authority to fire staff at Park?
A Yes.
Q Between the same time period, did Ms. Garriques have the
authority to fire staff at Park?
A No.
Q Other than the case today, have you ever been sued for
discrimination of any sort?
A I was recently --
MR. FORMAN: Objection.
THE COURT: Well, we are going to confine it between
2006 and 2009.
A Never.
(Continued on next page.)

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Side Bar
169
Q Have you recently been sued of discrimination of any
sort?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, relating to conduct that occurred
between 2006 and 2009.
MS. BUSH: May I have a side-bar please, Judge?
THE COURT: Sure.
(The following occurred at side bar.)
MS. BUSH: Yesterday in opening, Mr. Forman said as
part of his opening that the defendants have never been sued
for discrimination other than this case. That's not true
because he's been sued by Ms. Garriques in this discrimination
complaint.
THE COURT: By Ms. Garriques?
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: That's recent.
MS. BUSH: Yes, but you said yesterday in opening
that they've never been sued. You didn't say they've never
been sued prior to 2009. That was part of his opening
statement.
THE COURT: It is not really relevant nor is his
opening statement evidence.
MS. BUSH: Okay. So I can't mention this?
THE COURT: If it relates to conduct between 2006
and 2009. We are not going to combat his opening statement.

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Side Bar
170
MS. BUSH: Okay.
THE COURT: You did not object to it.
MS. BUSH: Yes, I didn't think it was the right
thing to do at the time. Okay.
(Side bar ends.)

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(In open court.)
THE COURT: Ms. Bush.
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q You know the plaintiff, Veronika Chauca, is that correct?
A Repeat again?
Q You know the plaintiff Veronika Chauca?
A Yes, I do.
Q How do you know Veronika?
A She applied for the job. We had her work for us two or
three years. That's how we know her.
Q There's a time that she became pregnant, correct?
A Yes.
Q You knew that she was pregnant, is that correct? You
knew she was pregnant?
A Yes.
Q Did she give you notice, written notice, of her
pregnancy?
A Correct.
Q And you approved her maternity leave?
A Repeat again, please?
Q You approved of her maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q Do you know when she went out on maternity leave, the
plaintiff? When did the plaintiff go out on maternity leave?

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A Sometime in August.
THE COURT: Of? Do you remember what year?
THE WITNESS: I don't know the year. 2012. I don't
know the year.
Q Does 2009 sound about right?
A Could be, yes.
Q Was she supposed to return to work after her pregnancy
leave?
A Yes.
Q Did she return to work?
A No, she did not.
Q Why not?
A We didn't have enough work for her at the time.
Q What do you mean by that?
A The business was a bit slow. It was winter. And we
didn't have enough, too many patients, and that's number none.
Number two, there was a change in the HMOs, health
maintenance organizations, so our load of patients was lower.
And number three, we didn't have permanent
physiotherapist department.
Q Ms. Chauca had been there since 2006, isn't that correct?
A Correct.
Q And she was there prior to the other ladies in the
physical therapy department, Debra and Jackie, isn't that
correct?

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A I think so, yes.
Q And Ms. Chauca is a certified physical therapy aide,
isn't that correct?
A Certified is not the word I would use. Physiotherapy
aide is not a licensed category according to the education
department.
Physiotherapist, yes. Physiotherapist assistant,
yes, but physiotherapist aide is not one of the professions
recognized by the education department.
Q Where do you get this information from, sir?
A From the education department. Anybody can look at it on
the internet.
Q She gave you a certification, didn't she? A copy of her
certification as a physical therapy aide?
A That's a certification. That's not a license.
Q I didn't say license. I said was she a certified
physical therapy aide? Yes or no.
THE COURT: No. I am going to allow it. She
received the certification. If you want to go into cross as
to what that certification may or may not have meant.
A The certification --
Q There's no question pending, sir.
THE COURT: The question was, did she present to you
documentation that she was certified by somebody as a physical

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therapy aide?
THE WITNESS: Yes, she did.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Your claim is that business started to slow down and that
is why Ms. Chauca was let go, is that correct?
A I didn't hear the first part.
Q Is your claim that business was slowing down and that is
why Ms. Chauca was let go?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. He didn't say
that Ms. Chauca was let go.
Q Is your claim that business was slowing down which is why
Ms. Chauca was not allowed to return from maternity leave?
A I wouldn't use the word "allowed." She didn't show up to
work. She just apparently make telephone calls to Ann Marie.
Q What do you mean she didn't show up to work?
A She didn't come to work. She didn't come and ask for a
job. She just make telephone calls.
Q But she gave you a letter saying she was going back in
November, isn't that correct?
A That's correct.
Q You expected her to come back in November, isn't that
correct?
A She -- expected yes, yes.
Q So why didn't she come back?
A Because the, the work was slow, as I said, as I

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explained.
Q But you just testified that she didn't turn up for work.
A Well, usually when you ask for a job, you come in, show
us the baby, show us she's proud with her child, ask for a
job.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to strike that. That is
unresponsive to my question.
THE COURT: No, I think it is responsive. I think
you want to probe it a little bit more.
MS. BUSH: Okay. Can I have my question read back,
please?
(Record read.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q What did you mean by she didn't turn up for work?
A Well, we have experience with other people that had been
in that place for five years plus, usually when they deliver,
they come proudly presenting their child and they tell us they
intend to come back to work and we make the arrangement,
whereby Ann Marie shuffles the people in such a way and tell
them, okay, come on such and such a date.
This didn't happen here. From -- I gather all that
happened was a telephone call and apparently she was, she was
informed, that yes, keep in touch with us, just give a time, a
breathing space so we can have you back.
That's my understanding.

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Q So Veronika did call and did want to return to her job,
is that correct?
A She -- wait. What was the second, about the call? You
said something else.
Q Veronika did call, is that correct?
A Not to me. She didn't call me.
Q She called Ann Marie, is that correct?
A Called Ann Marie, yes.
Q She wanted to come back to her job, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q So it's not true to say that she didn't turn up for work,
is it?
A She did not -- me, I meant, she did not come physically
to the job and tell us she's ready and could you have an
arrangement for her to start.
Q Because she was fired, isn't that correct?
A She was never fired.
Q So when Ms. Chauca went out on maternity leave in August
2009, who covered for her, her duties? Who covered her
duties?
A Well, we have, as you might imagine, staff working in the
office. We have many departments and Ann Marie will shuffle
the employees in such a way that we are not understaffed or
overstaffed in any of the departments.
So what we do, we get somebody who we think can do

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the job. Usually she's -- a therapy aid is simple work. It's
cleaning the bed, assisting the patient in and out, make one
or two telephone calls, make sure the hot and cold packs are
clean, listen to the physiotherapist, what instructions they
want to assist the patient.
So we can easily bring somebody, any of the, if it's
an assistant, for example, who has also a certificate in this,
in physical ed health, not, medical assistant. We use them in
such a way that we run the office smoothly without having, not
taking care of the patients properly.
Q So is it your testimony that at Park, you would shuffle
your employees according to your needs, is that correct?
A According to -- where they are needed, yes.
Q Were they employees of yours? Did they receive a salary?
A Yes.
Q They were independent employees?
A No, they are all employees.
Q And is it true that you would just lay people off and
pick people up as you needed?
A No, we don't lay people off. We, we put it in such a
way, we don't lay them off.
For example, if somebody working five days a week,
we tell them, look, take four days a week, or somebody working
full time, take part time, or if they're working eight hours,
only one session. We don't lay them off or fire them. We try

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to accommodate everybody.
Q Veronika had been there for three years, is that correct?
A How many years, you mean? She has been here two
thousand --
Q She had been there. She had been there three years,
between 2006 --
A Oh, you mean three. Yes. She had been three, that's
correct.
Q She was hired before Debra, is that correct?
A I don't know. I don't know.
Q Debra was hired in October 2006, isn't that correct?
A Debra was -- I don't know. Could be, yes, could be. I
have no idea.
Q So the plaintiff was hired in June 2006, isn't that
correct?
A Veronika, you mean?
Q Veronika?
A Veronika, I don't know the exact date. I have no idea.
Q She testified here yesterday that she was hired in May
2006. Do you remember that?
A No, I don't remember. If that was testimony, that's when
she was hired, yes.
Q And Jackie, in the physical therapy department, was hired
after Veronika, isn't that true?
A Yes, I think this is true.

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Q And Crystal Kahn who testified yesterday, she was hired
in May 2010, isn't that true?
A Yes, it is true.
Q So why wasn't someone with less seniority than Veronika
fired or let go when business was slowing down?
A Nobody was fired. Who you saying fired? I didn't say
fired. Nobody was fired.
Q Laid off? Why was Veronika laid off when she had the
most seniority?
A She was not laid off. She was told to keep in touch with
us and we try to have her back.
Q And did you ever have her back?
A She didn't come back, no.
Q How do you know?
A Because she didn't. I know who comes in the office and
who goes.
Q So when Veronika was out on maternity leave, isn't it
correct that Debra took all of her duties?
A Not, not all -- yes, you can say, yes. Yes.
Q Debra replaced the plaintiff, Veronika?
A Yes.
Q She covered for her maternity leave, is that correct?
THE COURT: Whose maternity leave?
MS. BUSH: Veronika's maternity leave.
A I don't know the exact tempo, dates, but I know that we

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had asked Debra to do some duties in the physiotherapy
department. That's all I know.
Q Did Debra cover for Veronika while Veronika was out on
maternity leave?
A Part of the time, yes.
Q What about the rest of the time?
A I think we had three people. We needed the three people
in the physiotherapy department. We need the physiotherapy
aide and the receptionist is usually -- and one of these three
people would be Crystal. The other one could be Jackie Stern,
a third one was Veronika and the fourth one was Debra.
So if we have three of them at the time or at least
two, this will cover the department needs.
Q And when Veronika failed to return from her maternity
leave, isn't it true that you gave her job to Debra?
A I didn't give her job to Debra. Debra was covering the
department at the time.
Q And Debra continued to cover it after Veronika was let
go, isn't that correct?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. There's no
testimony she was let go.
THE COURT: The witness has not agreed that she was
let go. So you can rephrase the question.
Q So, Veronika, her job was given to Debra after Veronika
did not return from maternity leave, isn't that correct?

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A Debra was doing the job of physiotherapy aide and
reception at the time when Veronika was off.
Q Okay. Can you answer the question, please?
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question?
THE COURT: I think he tried to answer your
question, Ms. Bush.
MS. BUSH: So can you repeat the question, please?
(Record read.)
THE COURT: Notwithstanding anything else that Debra
did, do you understand that at some point, someone gave
Veronika's job to Debra?
THE WITNESS: I have difficulty with the word
"gave." We didn't give her job to anybody else. I don't -- I
have difficulty in answering "give." It's not like you have
an object to give from somebody to another. It's not like
that. Her job was not given to somebody else. I have
difficulty in interpreting this word.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So when Veronika went out on maternity leave, she had a
job, correct?
A Correct.
Q And when she, it came time for her to come back from
maternity leave, she had no job to go back to, is that
correct?
A She had a job to come back but we asked her to give us a

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breathing space so that we can put the people, to give her the
job and not have too many people in one space and too few
people in another. So we shuffled them around, the word
"shuffle," I mean not take them and push them here and there,
and give them the job so that we can have each department go
smoothly.
Q If there was a lack of work in the department, why wasn't
a less senior employee let go or laid off?
A Nobody was laid off. I didn't say anybody was laid off.
THE COURT: He does not recognize that term,
Ms. Bush. He talked about cutback in hours and things of that
nature.
Q So if there was a cutback in hours, why wasn't one of the
less senior employees, why wasn't their hours cut back?
A They were.
Q Whose hours were cut back?
A I don't know who they are. Remember, we said, usually we
would have meetings for the whole office to hash out a few
things, important to everybody, and we did tell them that
we're passing through a difficult period economically and for
our survival, future survival, some of you would be let, would
be, their hours would be cut out, just when we resume our
normal activity and have more work, we'll put you back to. We
did give some employees some letters to this effect.
Q Why didn't you cut back Debra's hours?

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A I think we did.
Q When?
A I think we did.
Q When?
A I remember Debra and I think probably -- we did. We did.
We did give them decreasing hours.
Q When?
A I don't know the exact dates. You want me to remember
every minutiae of this?
THE COURT: Let's try to focus on the time.
Your recollection of Debra getting less hours, was
it before or after or during Ms. Chauca's maternity leave?
THE WITNESS: I don't recall, sir. I have no idea.
Q Who would know?
A Her folder will be there. If we did this, we would
probably give it to her in writing and she acknowledged it and
it would be in her folder.
Q Who are you talking about?
A I'm talking about -- you're talking about Debra, correct?
Q So is it your testimony that Debra's hours were cut back?
A Yes.
Q But you have no idea when?
A Correct.
Q Okay. If hours are being cut back, why didn't you cut
Jackie's hours back?

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A I'm not sure we didn't. Probably we did.
Q Did you or didn't you?
THE COURT: He cannot recall.
Q Did you cut back Jackie's hours?
A I remember at the time, there were about six employees,
two of them from the physiotherapy department, the rest from
collection, which we decreased their hours. I don't know who
or when. No idea.
Q Were the hours decreased permanently or temporarily?
A Usually temporarily. As I said, we tell them let's pass
through the difficult period and give them back. Usually
temporary.
Q So did the hours become available again after Ms. Chauca
was not allowed to return from maternity leave?
A For who, you're talking about?
Q Ms. Chauca?
A No, for who, the hours for who? The hours for Debra, you
mean?
THE COURT: Maybe I misunderstand your question. I
think -- tell me if I'm wrong, Ms. Bush.
Did there come a time after Ms. Chauca went on
maternity leave that there would be sufficient work to allow
her to return to work?
THE WITNESS: For who, for --
THE COURT: For Ms. Chauca.

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THE WITNESS: Yes. There was, there was a time --
if your question is -- let me just rephrase the question
myself.
Was there a time when we could have had Veronika
full time? The answer is yes.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q When was that?
A Probably it would have been somewhere in January,
February, when the department picks up again.
Q So why didn't she come back?
A She didn't come back.
Q Why didn't she come back if the hours had picked up?
A She decide to sue me.
Q She decided to?
A Sue me.
Q What do you mean, she decided to sue you?
A By December 2nd, she sued us, I think, December 2nd,
December 3rd.
Q So how is that relevant to whether there were hours for
her to come back to?
A You want me to have somebody who already sued me? I
can't understand that. She went to court to sue us. If she
is going to sue us, she wants to come back?
Q So you fired her for suing you?
A No, I did not.

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MR. FORMAN: Objection. Objection, Your Honor.
She's using the word "fired." There was no testimony that
Veronika Chauca was ever fired.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So you didn't take her back after the hours were
increased because she had sued you, is that correct?
A Well, human nature, what do you think?
Q Just answer yes or no, sir.
THE COURT: Just answer yes or no.
A I don't know how to answer this.
Q Is the answer yes or no, sir?
A I can't answer that.
Q Okay. Was there ever a time you called Ms. Chauca to
come back to work because the hours had picked up?
A No, I did not call.
Q Did anybody call?
A I don't know.
Q Why didn't you call if the hours had picked up?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. That was asked
and answered.
THE COURT: No. That specific question was not
asked and answered. She's asking why he didn't call if the
hours had picked up.
A If you're asking why didn't I call personally?
Q Uh-huh.

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A Well, the office is a huge base, many, many problems, and
I don't think I'll be asked a question whether a person comes
in and out, a special time or the basis. It's too much for me
to get this minutiae.
Q Did Ann Marie ever call the plaintiff to tell her that
the hours had picked up and she should come back to work?
A I think she did.
Q When did she call her?
A I think -- we left it the last time when we talked to Ann
Marie between us about Veronika, I told her, understand I do
general umbrella of the Park Health Center office, I do not do
this minutiae, which one comes in, what minute, overtime,
under-time.
So I talk in general with her and I told her this is
the story, we are a bit low now, so you inform her that she
keep in touch with her and when the time arrives, she can come
back. That's my understanding.
But did I call her personally? The answer is no.
Q When did Ann Marie call her to tell her she should come
back because the hours had picked up?
A I don't know whether, when and whether she did. I have
no idea.
Q Who would know?
A She would know.
Q Ann Marie?

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A Yes.
Q Okay. Was there a time when Debra became pregnant, the
second pregnancy?
A Yes.
Q And she went out on maternity leave also, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q While she was out on maternity leave, did she pay a visit
to the office? Do you recall?
A Not to me personally.
Q What does that mean?
A I mean, I didn't see her. She didn't come and tell me
you became pregnant, seven months, eight months.
Q No. No. When she was out on maternity leave, did she
pay a visit to the office?
A To the office, I don't know if she did. Not to me
personally.
Q So is it your testimony that when Debra was out on
maternity leave with her second child, she did not come into
the office and speak to you, is that correct?
A She did not come to me. That's correct.
Q Okay. When was Debra supposed to return to work after
her pregnancy leave?
A The second one, you mean?
Q Yes.

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A She was supposed to come back after a period, usually,
usually two months, three months, but she wanted to come
earlier than that, is my recollection. She wanted to come two
weeks after delivery.
Q When was she supposed to return to work?
A We did not set a certain time. In other words, we did
not tell her you have to come back at such and such. We did
not say that.
Q Did Debra set a time that she was going to come back?
A Yes.
Q What date was she supposed to come back?
A No, no, no. This wasn't the question. Repeat the
question again. She was supposed to come back and she did
come back --
Q What date, what date was Debra supposed to return to
maternity leave?
A I just said Debra, we give them a leeway, according to
what their gynecologist tell them. We did not tell Debra that
you should come on such and such a date.
Q Did Debra tell you she was going to return on a certain
day?
A Yes, she did.
Q So what day was she supposed to return?
A The day was two weeks. This is my recollection, in
general.

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I think what she did, she wanted to come two weeks
after delivery. And seeing that that was too short for a lady
who already had a very high-risk pregnancy and she had already
had a miscarriage in the first one, we tell her, no, you can't
come so early. I think it's about two or three weeks,
something of this nature. We told her it's too risky.
Q Didn't Debra give you a note that told you that she was
to return to work on the 3rd of August, 2009?
A I don't recall that.
Q No?
A No.
Q Anything that would refresh your recollection?
A No. I think as I just said, it was, the period of two or
three months after delivery, we thought it's too risky. I
think at the time either we told her to get a letter from the
doctor that it's okay.
Q Dr. Abraham, did Debra give you a note to tell you she
was going to return to work on August the 3rd? Yes or no.
A I don't, I don't recollect that.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to mark into evidence
Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, please.
Can I approach the witness, sir?
THE COURT: Is that stipulated in?
MS. BUSH: Stipulated in.

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MR. FORMAN: Yes, that's stipulated into evidence.
THE COURT: Plaintiff's Exhibit 1 received in
evidence without objection.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recognize this document?
A Yes. No, I don't. I don't.
Q Have you seen it before?
A No, I haven't.
Q I'm just going to read this -- okay. This is a letter
from Debra Mahearwanlal to Sheila, the payroll manager, and
it's cc'd to you, Dr. Abraham, and Ms. Garriques, dated March
the 10th, 2009.
It says, Dear Sheila, this is to inform you I will
be on maternity leave from 6/12/09 through 7/31/09. I will
return to work on 8/3/2009.
Do you see that, sir?
A Yes, I see it.
Q Have you seen this note before?
A No.
Q You say you never received a copy of this note from
Debra?
A No, I did not.
Q Did she return from work, from maternity leave on the 3rd
of August?

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A My recollection is, if I read this letter now, she would
be on maternity leave from 7/31/09 and she want to come back
in three days after delivery, after maternity leave, three
days.
Q Okay. My question was, have you seen this note before?
THE COURT: He said no.
MS. BUSH: He said no.
Q Okay. There is no question pending.
THE COURT: You did ask him a question.
Q Did she return on the 3rd of August?
A I don't know when she returned, but my recollection is we
did not want her to return at the time she wanted to return
because it was a too short a period after delivery.
Q When did she return to work?
A I don't know when.
Q Did she return to work after the 3rd of August or before?
A I do not know that.
Q Who would know?
THE COURT: If you know.
THE WITNESS: I don't know who knows.
Q You don't know who would know?
A Probably the pay manager, Sheila, would know.
Q Isn't it true that you tried to fire Debra while she was
out on maternity leave?
A No, that's not true at all.

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Q Isn't it true that she had threatened to sue you because
you had fired her?
A No, that's not true at all.
Q Isn't it true that the only reason you rehired her was
because she had threatened to sue you for pregnancy
discrimination?
A Absolutely not.
Q There's a time that Jackie Stern got pregnant, isn't that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember when that was?
A No.
Q That was March 2010. Does that refresh your
recollection?
A No, it does not.
Q No? Did Jackie go out on maternity leave?
A I don't think so.
Q You don't think Jackie went out on maternity leave?
A No. Jackie -- no. Jackie had a very bad pregnancy and
she was in hospital most of the time. I don't think she asked
for maternity leave. I don't think so.
Q So when did she stop working at Park because of her
pregnancy?
A I don't know.
Q Was it after Veronika had been, had her hours cut?

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A No, I think it was before that.
Q Do you know when Jackie's baby was born?
A No, I don't.
Q Who would know?
A You mean in the office?
Q Yes.
A Probably Ann Marie would know.
THE COURT: Is that a record that you would keep in
the ordinary course of business?
THE WITNESS: I don't know, sir. I have no idea.
Q How long was Jackie out for?
A For a long time because she was having very bad
pregnancy. She was in the hospital, as far as I know. She
keep vomiting and abdominal pain and she was in hospital for a
long time.
Q It's true that Jackie put a claim in for unemployment, is
that correct?
A I wouldn't know.
Q Who would know?
A Sheila is the one who handled the employment.
Q Are you aware that Park denied Jackie her unemployment
while she was out sick? Are you aware of that?
A I'm not aware of that, no.
Q When did you receive a copy of the plaintiff's federal
court complaint?

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A There were two complaints, one of them with the state and
the other one was federal.
Q Federal complaint?
A Federal.
THE COURT: You mean in this action, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: In this action.
A I don't know whether it was two months or three months
after the first one. The first one is early December, so the
other one should be about three or four months later, or two
months later.
Q So what date is that, approximately?
A I think March, April.
Q Of?
A 2009, I think.
Q The federal court complaint?
A I don't know the exact date, no.
Q Have you seen a copy of the complaint?
A At the time, yes.
Q Do you recall you had a date stamp on it?
A No, I don't recall.
Q Is there anything that would refresh your recollection?
A If I look at the, at the, at the document itself?
Q If I told you that the federal court complaint was filed
on November the 17th, 2010, does that have any recollection
for you?

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A I wouldn't doubt that. I wouldn't know.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to mark the complaint which is
already stipulated into evidence, please: Plaintiff's
Exhibit 9, I'd like to admit into evidence, please.
THE COURT: It is stipulated in?
MS. BUSH: Yes, it's already stipulated in.
MR. FORMAN: Yes, Your Honor. No objection.
THE COURT: Received in evidence without objection.
MS. BUSH: I don't have copies.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recognize that document, Dr. Abraham?
A Yes.
Q What is it?
A It's District Court suing us, Veronika suing us for
discrimination.
Q What is the date stamp at the top?
A November 17, 2010.
Q Does that bring back your recollection, refresh your
recollection?
THE COURT: About.
Q About the date of the federal court complaint?
A This is the date. I can't doubt it.
Q Okay.
THE COURT: Do you recall it?

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THE WITNESS: I don't recall it, no.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Do you recall when you received a copy of the complaint?
A No, I don't.
Q Did you receive a copy in 2010?
A I must have. I suppose I did.
THE COURT: But you do not recall?
THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
Q So is it correct to say that you would have received a
copy of the federal court complaint sometime in early 2011, is
that accurate?
A That's accurate, yes.
Q And when did Jackie return to work after her pregnancy?
A I don't recall the date, no.
Q Was it after you received a copy of the complaint in the
federal case?
A I don't know.
Q Who would know?
A The payroll manager would know.
Q Sheila?
A Correct.
Q Isn't it correct that you tried to fire Jackie when she
was out on maternity leave?
A Absolutely not.
Q And isn't it correct that you only rehired her after the

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federal court action had been filed?
A Not true.
Q Was any -- in December 2009, was anybody laid off in the
physical therapy department?
A I don't think so.
Q Was anybody else's hours cut apart from Veronika's?
A Repeat the question again?
Q Was anyone's hours cut to the extent that Veronika's were
cut?
THE COURT: In December of 2009.
THE COURT: Overruled.
A I didn't understand. Repeat the question again, please.
MS. BUSH: Can you read the question back?
(Record read.)
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, there's no testimony
Veronika's hours were ever cut.
MS. BUSH: He did testify.
THE COURT: I think he did, but we will ask him.
Were Veronika's hours cut?
THE WITNESS: Before she left?
THE COURT: No, in December.
THE WITNESS: Well, were Veronika's hours cut in
December?

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THE COURT: Yes.
THE WITNESS: Which year?
THE COURT: 2009 after her maternity leave.
THE WITNESS: Veronika? She wasn't there. How can
we cut her hours?
THE COURT: Okay. Then let me ask you this so I can
understand it.
What was Veronika's status, to the best of your
understanding, in December 2009 in connection with Park
Management Systems?
THE WITNESS: She was away on maternity leave and
we're trying to fit her in when she had, when we had enough
work for her. That's what the status.
THE COURT: So she had no hours. You had no hours
for her then?
THE WITNESS: At the time she was out, no, we had no
hours for her.
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So in December 2010, it's your testimony that you had no
hours for Veronika?
THE COURT: 2009.
MS. BUSH: 2009, sorry.
Q Is it your testimony that in December of 2009, you had no
hours for Veronika?
A We had enough staff at the time, so we had no hours for

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her until we make hours for her when she comes back.
Q Did you make hours for her?
A When we tried to, as I say shuffle around, when the
business become a bit more amenable to her, we try to call her
back.
Q Did you call her back?
A No. We did not call her back.
Q Why not?
A We did get, we did call her -- my understanding is Ann
Marie tried to get in touch with her to tell her keep in touch
with us and when we have a place, we'll call you back.
Q When the hours picked up, did you or anyone at Park call
her back?
A By then we had the suit on our hands and I don't know
that anybody called her. I don't think so.
Q So there were hours available but you didn't call her
because of the lawsuit, is that correct?
A I, I don't know how to answer that.
Q The answer is yes or no, sir.
A I can't answer that.
Q Okay. So in December 2009, were there hours for Debra to
work?
A We were trying in December before the lawsuit to have
enough hours for the others to call her back to work.
MS. BUSH: Can you repeat the question, please?

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(Record read.)
A We were trying to have hours for her when the business
would pick up.
THE COURT: No. No. The question was in 2009,
December, were there hours for Debra to work? Not Veronika.
THE WITNESS: Oh, Debra. I didn't hear the
question. Sorry.
A Debra?
Q Yes.
A Yes. There were hours for her. She was working.
Q Okay. So in December 2009, were there hours for Jackie
to work?
A Yes.
Q And in December 2009, were there hours for Crystal to
work?
A Yes.
Q But in December 2009, there were no hours for Veronika to
work, is that correct?
A Well, if we were going to, if we were, to come back, we
were going to shift either Crystal or Debra back to, to
another place to accommodate her, to accommodate Veronika.
Q So even though Veronika had been there the longest, there
was still no hours for her to come back to in December 2009,
is that correct?
A In December, 2009, we tried to accommodate all of them to

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have her back. We would have shuffled. Once the business
picks up, we would have had her back to work.
Q So in 2009, there were no hours for Veronika to come back
to even though she was the only certified physical therapy
aide in the department?
MR. FORMAN: Objection. Your Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. FORMAN: It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Absolutely. It is sustained.
Q You fired Veronika because she was on maternity leave,
didn't you, sir?
A We --
THE COURT: Asked and answered. Move on.
Q When did you hire Crystal?
A I don't, I don't know the exact date.
Q Approximately?
A I wouldn't know.
Q She testified yesterday she was hired May 2009. Do you
recollect that?
A Could well be.
Q So she -- Crystal was the last person hired to the
physical therapy department, isn't that correct?
THE COURT: In 2009?
MS. BUSH: Yes, 2009.
A I wouldn't know that.

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203
Q Who was the last person hired to the physical therapy
department in 2009?
A I wouldn't know that.
Q Who would know?
THE COURT: Are there records that would show that,
Doctor?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And who maintains those records?
THE WITNESS: The payroll department would maintain
it.
Q So is it correct that Crystal was the last one out of
Veronika, Debra, Crystal and Jackie, that Crystal was the last
one hired out of those four ladies?
A Out of those four ladies was she hired the last. Yes, I
think she was the last one hired, yes.
Q So if she was the last one hired, why weren't her hours
cut entirely?
A I didn't say her hours were not cut off. Her hours might
have been cut off. I don't know.
Q She had some hours in December 2009, didn't she?
A Yes, she did.
Q She didn't have no hours like the plaintiff?
A I don't know how many hours she had. I don't know how
many hours the plaintiff had at the time. No idea.
Q Who would know?

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A The payroll would know.
Q Would Ann Marie know?
A She might know. I don't know.
Q So usually -- would you agree, that if there are hours to
be cut, the last person in the department should have their
hours cut? Would you agree with that?
THE COURT: Is that a policy of Park Management?
Q Is that a policy of Park Management?
A No.
Q So what's the policy regarding whose hours should be cut?
A According to our need. If the person can do certain
things which we need, we keep them. If that person, we can
dispose of temporarily, we would decrease their hours.
Q Was Veronika disposed of temporarily?
A Veronika was not disposed of temporarily.
Q Does she work there today?
A I don't understand the question.
MR. FORMAN: I'm going to object to that question.
It's argumentative.
THE COURT: Yes, it does not matter whether she
works there today.
Q Who told you the business was slowing down as you've
testified?
A I know it myself.
Q How do you know it?

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A I know from the revenue, I know it from how many patients
come in and out, I know from the billing.
Q Do you have access to the accounts of Park, financial
accounts?
A Yes.
THE COURT: During what of time?
Q During 2006 and 2009?
A Yes.
Q And did you see that business was slowing down?
A Yes.
Q Have you ever produced any of those documents to this
court?
A I don't think I was asked to.
Q You were not asked to produce any documentary evidence --
THE COURT: Were those documents in your control or
the company's control?
Were you the custodian of the documents you are
referring to?
THE WITNESS: The documents, financial documents are
kept in the office. They're accessible to me. They're
accessible to the accountant.
THE COURT: Do you actually file them yourself?
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Who does that?
THE WITNESS: The accountant shows them to me.

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206
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Who is the accountant?
A A firm in Manhattan. I think Rosenberg and Company.
THE COURT: And they were the accountants in the
period 2006 to 2009?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
Q Did you ask them to give you documentary evidence that
business was slowing down?
A I wasn't asked to and, no, I didn't.
Q Your attorney didn't ask you to produce documentary
evidence of your business slowing down for this lawsuit?
A No. No.
Q No?
A No.
Q Did your attorney ask you to produce any documentary
evidence of business slowing down for the purposes of this
lawsuit?
A I don't think I was asked to.
Q No?
THE COURT: Were you asked by your attorney, you
personally, to produce any documents?
THE WITNESS: In this regard? No.
THE COURT: In this lawsuit?
THE WITNESS: Correct. No.
Q Your attorney never asked you to produce any documentary

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evidence of the slowing down of your business, is that
correct?
A I don't recall anybody asked me.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: Just give me a second, sir.
(Pause.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q So is it true that the plaintiff, Veronika, was sometimes
asked to do the job of a physical therapist? Is that true?
A I didn't get it. What was the question?
Q Okay. Is it true that the plaintiff, Veronika, was
sometimes asked to do the job of a physical therapist for
Park?
A No. No.
Q Isn't it true that you paid her with separate checks to
do the work of a physical therapist?
A No.
Q No? Have you ever seen any checks that were given to
Veronika for her work?
A We did give her extra checks for her, as an incentive,
yes.
Q As an incentive to what?
A To doing the range of motion.
Q To doing the --
A Range of motion.

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Q You paid her separately to do the range of motion work?
A Not separately, but to give her incentives.
Q You gave her extra checks to do the range of motion work,
is that correct?
A Correct.
Q Did you give anybody else extra checks to do the range of
motion work?
A I might have done, yes.
Q Did you give Debra extra checks to do the range of motion
work?
A I don't know.
Q Did you give Jackie extra checks to do the range of
motion work?
A Jackie didn't do range of motion.
Q And it's correct that you've never produced any
documentary evidence to this Court of business slowing down?
THE COURT: Yes. Sustained.
It is not a question of his responsibility. It is
Mr. Forman's responsibility.
Q Were you ever asked by your attorney to produce the
documents showing business was slowing down?
MR. FORMAN: Objection. Your Honor. We went over
that several times.
THE COURT: Yes, sustained. It is his obligation.

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209
He has already told us he does not maintain these documents.
Somebody else maintains them.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what happens in
the course of what we call discovery, there is certain
obligations to complete. You have seen some deposition
testimony taken, people can be asked to testify before trial,
so the lawyers get an understanding of the case.
There are also requirements to produce documents
that are available that fit into certain categories and each
party, each side, has an obligation to produce those kinds of
documents, if they exist. And it's not necessarily tendered
by the individual defendant. They are usually corporate
documents and they are usually maintained by a custodian of
record and it is the lawyers' jobs to go to those custodian of
records and see if there are documents responsive to the
demand of their adversary and to turn those documents over to
the adversary party so they can inspect them.
MS. BUSH: No further questions.
Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. That brings us, again, we have
been doing pretty good getting, finishing blocks just about at
the time that we want to take a break.
So I promised you a mid-morning break and we are
going to take a mid-morning break. It is about the time we
would have taken it, but it is wonderful that we have

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210
completed the direct examination, so before we begin
Mr. Forman's cross-examination, we will give you, the jury,
and all of us, a break to refresh and to use any other rooms
that you might need to use. So about 10 or 15 minutes.
You are going to retire to the jury room. Do not
discuss the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else you
might run into, and certainly continue to keep an open mind
and you will be in the good care of Mr. Villanueva. Make sure
you do not get lost.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: Okay. So about 10 or 15.
Doctor, you can stand down or sit there. Whatever
is more comfortable for you.
THE WITNESS: Thank you.
(Recess taken.)
MS. BUSH: Your Honor, I'm not calling any other
witnesses.
THE COURT: You are not calling Ms. Garriques?
MS. BUSH: No.
THE COURT: Doctor, you can take the stand.
Are we ready to go? Are you ready, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: Yes, Your Honor.
(Jury enters.)

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211
properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are
ready to begin.
As you recall, we just ended the direct examination
by Ms. Bush. We are now ready to do the cross-examination by
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: Thank you, Your Honor.

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Abraham - cross - Forman
212
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Dr. Abraham, you gave testimony and you heard questions
about a certificate for being a physical therapy aide.
A Yes.
Q Do you recall that?
Are there any other employees at Park that have
certificates?
A Yes.
Q And what type of employee would have a certificate?
A Usually, these employees goes to some people who teach
them certain things. For example, physiotherapy aid, medical,
not assistant, medical helper. This sort of thing. They give
them certificates. It's not any significance.
They teach them certain things which any normal
person would, would absorb in one day in the practice. They
give them these big certificates. It doesn't really mean much
really. It's not education department certificate or license.
We take it, we take it as it is, that they did some
work. In many of these specialties, they, they sort of make
them feel happy they have a certificate. They proudly bring
it but it doesn't bring much. In real life, you need somebody
who gets trained on the job.
Q To be a physical therapy aide at Park Health Center, is
it required to have a certificate?

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A No. No. It doesn't require a certificate, no.
Q And why do you say that?
A Because it's a simple staff, simple job. All you need is
somebody who can clean the bed, clean the room, assist the
patient, take him from the reception to where he's supposed to
have the physiotherapy.
It's not that highly sophisticated specialty.
There's not really a specialty. Any person, probably six
hours would learn it, probably less than six hours.
Q If I can ask you about the situation in the physical
therapy department at Park Health Center around the time --
A Could I have this a bit on because this morning was
working very well.
Q Dr. Abraham, directing your attention back to around the
time that Veronika was in the physical, physical therapy
department at Park Health Center and was going on maternity
leave, do you recall that was around July and August of 2009?
A Correct.
Q And do you recall who were the employees that were
working at Park Health Center in July and August 2009?
A Park Health Center, there was about --
Q No, in physical therapy department where Veronika was
working.
A There was Crystal, I think Crystal, Jackie and might be
another person who I don't know.

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Q Okay. Was Debra there around that time?
A When Jackie went to maternity leave, before she went, no.
Debra wasn't there.
Q Okay. So it was Crystal, Jackie and Veronika, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q Anybody else?
A I don't think so.
Q Okay. And how would you compare the job duties of
Veronika to the job duties of Jackie at that time?
A No, Veronika was much more, had much more expertise than
Jackie, specifically for the range of motion.
Q Okay. How about their other duties? How would you
compare, not their performance, their duties, what they did at
work?
A Regarding the physiotherapy, roughly the same thing.
Q Okay. Is there a back, some of the physical therapy, a
person who worked in the back and someone who worked in the
front. Have you heard those terms used?
A Yes, the front room is reception. When people come off
the elevator, the first person they see is the receptionist
and that's what they call the front.
The back, that's where the person, the visitor, the
aide stays with the physical therapist doing what we just
described.

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Q Okay. And did Jackie work in the back and the front or
where did she work in the physical therapy department around
July of 2009?
A Well, I can't specifically separate because if somebody
in the physiotherapist has somebody working with him, that
person go to the reception, which is the front.
If there's already somebody in the front, they go to
the back, et cetera. They interchange.
Q Okay. And is that true also for Veronika around that
time?
A Correct.
Q And what about Crystal around July and August of 2009?
A I think Crystal, Crystal was mainly receptionist.
Actually, she was a receptionist for -- actually, she was a
receptionist for the physiotherapy and for the psychiatrist,
psychologist, who works in the same floor.
Q And how often, if ever, did Crystal work in the back
room?
A I wouldn't be able to tell. She, as I said earlier, if
we want the person to go to the back room, so to speak, to
help in assisting the patient, to lay them on the table, to
calm them down, to ask, to tell the physiotherapist the
patient is ready for you, then she'll go to the back. It's
nothing esoteric. Nothing high, sophisticated. Something
simple.

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Q In July and August of 2009, besides Veronika, how many of
the employees working in the physical therapy department --
I'll withdraw that.
When Veronika went out on maternity leave at the end
of August 2009, where was Debra?
A Debra was a medical assistant on the first floor, which
is mainly the medical part, pediatrics, the adult medicine,
the x-ray department.
Q And how long had she done that job after coming back from
maternity leave?
A Debra, when she came back from maternity leave, did not
go to the first floor. I think by then, Veronika left, and we
have, she go work in the physiotherapy department.
Q And that's as soon as she came back from maternity?
A No. When she came back from maternity leave, I explained
this morning, she wanted to go back to work in a matter of two
or three weeks, and we told her it's too early, seeing that
she already had a miscarriage a few months before she became
pregnant with the second pregnancy, and she's high risk, so we
asked her either to bring us a letter from gynecologist or she
take it easy.
So we have her only a few days, two days or three
days a week, I think, just to phase her in slowly, because we
didn't want her to have a tragedy on our hand.
Q And where was she assigned when she came back?

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A Debra, when she came back, she was told to go to the
physiotherapy. She started physiotherapy.
Q And for how long did she stay in that department?
A She stays -- after part time, she stayed full time and
she still doing the job there.
Q So how about in, let's say, when Veronika wanted to come
back, who was in the physical therapy department?
A There were, should be three people then: Debra, Jackie,
and Crystal.
Q And did there come a time when there were four people in
the physical therapy department?
A When they what?
Q Were there four people in the physical therapy department
after that?
A I don't think so. I don't think we have four people.
Too much for us to have four people there. There's not that
much work for all.
Q And when, after December of 2009, how long did Jackie
stay in the physical therapy department?
A I don't -- I have no idea. I don't know how long she
stays. I don't know.
I think she, she stays from there on. She didn't
quit.
Q Is she there today?
A Jackie is there today, yes. She's still working.

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218
Q And has she been there since December of 2009, other than
her maternity leave?
A I think so.
Q If I may show you plaintiff's, I believe it's admitted
into evidence as plaintiff's -- it's marked as Plaintiff's
Exhibit 9, is that correct? That's the complaint.
THE COURT: It is in evidence.
Q Can you take a look at Plaintiff's Exhibit 9 in evidence.
You should have a copy of it. The attorney took it back?
THE COURT: Is it on your table there, Doctor?
THE WITNESS: No, not on my table.
Q That's the complaint. It should be several pages.
THE COURT: He says he does not have it on the
table.
MS. BUSH: How many pages are in evidence?
THE COURT: There is more than that, but they do not
necessarily stay there. Somebody may have taken it back to
the counsel table, but 9 is in evidence.
MR. FORMAN: Can I have a copy for the witness? The
marked copy, I'd like to show that copy to the witness.
MS. BUSH: He's got a copy. We gave it to him.
MR. FORMAN: Counsel says she doesn't have it.
THE COURT: Which one is that, sir?
MR. FORMAN: Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
THE COURT: Isn't that the complaint?

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MR. FORMAN: Show it to the witness.
(Pause.)
MR. FORMAN: For the record, that should be a
17-page document.
THE COURT: And it is the complaint in this action.
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Now, Dr. Jamil, do you see the second page, paragraph 8.
I can read it to you. It says, paragraph 8: On or about
December 2009, plaintiff filed a complaint jointly, underlined
jointly, with the New York District Office of the New York
State Division of Human Rights, NYSDHR, in quotes, under case
number 10138266, and with the United States Equal Employment
Opportunity Commission, EEOC in quotes, under federal charge
number 16-GB-001070. These filings satisfied the requirements
of 42 U.S.C., Section 2000 C-5. The complaints charge sex
discrimination, pregnancy discrimination and harassment
against defendants.
These filings were within 300 days after one or more
occurrences of defendants's discriminatory conduct against
plaintiff.
Do you see that paragraph?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. It says that on or about December 2009, plaintiff
filed this discrimination complaint of pregnancy

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discrimination, sex discrimination and harassment.
Did you get a copy of that complaint in December of
2009?
A Yes.
MR. FORMAN: If I can show the witness what has been
marked as Defendants's Exhibit B in evidence.
Q I'm going to ask if you can take a look at that.
(Pause.)
Q And this is the EEOC letter. It says that the person
filing the charges, Veronika Chauca. The date of the
violation is December 3, 2009. It has an EEOC charge number.
It's addressed to Park Health Center, attention to you,
Dr. Jamil Abraham, and it's dated at the bottom, December 11,
2009.
Do you recall getting a copy of this document?
A I don't remember. I must have received it. I don't know
it.
Q Okay. Is it your testimony that in December 2009, you
already knew that you were being sued for pregnancy
discrimination by Veronika Chauca?
A Yes, that's correct.
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q If I can show the witness what has been marked as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 in evidence also.
(Pause.)

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Q Dr. Abraham, this is the letter that you signed when
Veronika Chauca wanted to go on maternity leave. It's dated
August 20, 2009, and it has a signature at the bottom.
Do you recognize whose signature that is?
A Yes. Two signatures, one Veronika's and the other,
initial by myself.
Q Okay. Can you tell us what happened when -- did you
receive this document around August 20, 2009?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. Can you tell us what happened when you got this
document?
A Well, Veronika came to me, handed me this letter. She
said I'm pregnant. I tell her congratulations. I think I
said mazel tov in Hebrew, which means congratulations, and
this, you're fine, take your time, whatever you want, but show
it to Ann Marie.
Q Do you see where it says she says, "I will be out for two
months"?
A Yes.
Q And do you see that she wants to return to work on
November 23, 2009?
A Correct.
Q And she gave you this letter in August 20th?
A Yes.
Q Did you notice that it's three months, not two months?

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A Yes, yes, two months, but she come back in three months,
according to this, yes.
Q Well, when she handed you the letter, did you notice that
it was three months instead of two months that she wanted to
come back?
A No, I didn't.
Q When did you first notice?
A I did not notice this discrepancy two months she come
back. It doesn't matter for us. Whenever she want to come
back, she come back. So I didn't make notice of it.
Q What is the policy at Park Health Center with regards to,
let's say, vacation leave, not maternity leave, vacation
leave?
A They usually tell us they have a special number of days
they can take vacation, according to their years of work. So
they choose their time. They usually informally, tell us or
write to us, then we, we accommodate them accordingly.
Q And what's the policy at Park Health Center with regard
to other time off, other leave, not relating to vacation, not
relating to illness, and not relating to maternity leave?
Someone wants to go back to their country. A lot of people at
Park Health are originally from other countries, is that
correct?
A That's correct.
Q All right. So somebody wants to go back to their

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country, what's the policy at Park Health Center?
A There's no set policy where we force them to take the
time, special time. It's up to them. We very loose in this
respect.
They go and we usually, as I said the word shuffle,
I don't mean shuffling, we accommodate and put people in other
place as far as we can make the whole departments go smoothly.
So there's no special restrictions.
Q Do you recall the first time that Debra went out on
maternity leave? Was that the first time before or after
Veronika?
A The first time she was -- you mean the first pregnancy?
Q Uh-huh.
A The one in miscarriage, that was before.
Q And for how long was she out?
A I don't think she was out too long. I think after the
miscarriage, she took a few weeks off and she came back.
Q And Debra's pregnancy, that wasn't for a year or two
after Veronika, is that correct?
A It was before, I think.
Q I'm sorry. Jackie's pregnancy, yes. You just testified
it was before, Jackie's pregnancy?
A Jackie's pregnancy, the question was before also?
Q Jackie's pregnancy, did she get pregnant at any time
before Veronika?

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A I think she did, yes, I think before.
Q Jackie did?
A Yes.
Q Are you sure?
A I'm not sure. I don't get personal, personal life of all
these people. As far as the office goes smoothly, I don't
care.
So the dates when -- you asked me the date when
Crystal -- no, not Crystal. Jackie became pregnant? I have
no idea.
Q As far as the range of motion machine, did Debra do that
kind of work, too?
A Yes.
Q But -- did Jackie do that kind of work?
A No.
MR. FORMAN: I have no other questions.
THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Forman.
Anything, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: No, sir.
THE COURT: You're excused.
(Witness excused.)
MS. BUSH: No further witnesses, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And the plaintiff rests?
MS. BUSH: Plaintiff rests.
THE COURT: Okay. All right.

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225
Ladies and gentlemen, that brings us to the end of a
building block. We are going to take a very brief recess, let
you go back to the jury room. We have some things that we
need to attend to in court that do not involve the jury and
then call you back.
Do not discuss the case among yourself, and just
because we finished a building block, the case is hardly over.
Continue to keep an open mind.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: The jury has been excused. Are there
any motions --
THE COURT: -- at the close of the plaintiff's case?
MR. FORMAN: For the defendant, we would like to
make a Rule 50(a) motion for judgment as a matter of law.
Oral motion.
It's the defendants's contention that the plaintiff
has not shown that her pregnancy played a sufficient part in
motivating the defendants to terminate her. She's testified
several times she did not know why the reason was that they
would not take her back. Those were her testimony several
times.
The mere fact that at the time she did not return,
whether she was terminated or not, even believing her
testimony, giving credence to her testimony that she was

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226
terminated while she was pregnant, is not sufficient to find
under discrimination under the federal rules, state rules nor
the city rules.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush -- further?
MR. FORMAN: And we would ask that the plaintiff's
case be dismissed.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush, do you wish to be heard on
defendants's motion?
MS. BUSH: Yes, the plaintiff proved her prima facie
case. She has proved part 4 of the case. She testified
numerous times yesterday that she was fired because of her
pregnancy discrimination because she was out on maternity
leave. There's no other reason to fire her. It was the only
reason that was different from her previous three years of
work.
We've also shown proof that she was replaced by
Veronika.
THE COURT: By Debra.
MS. BUSH: By Debra, sorry. By Debra. She was
replaced by Debra.
Her witnesses testified that she was replaced by
Debra. Shirlie testified she was replaced by Debra. Crystal
testified she was replaced by Debra. It is also been proved
to be a pattern of practice of that type of discrimination at
Park.

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The plaintiff has testified that Debra was fired
while she was out on maternity leave. Jackie was fired.
Shirlie testified that Jackie was testified. And Crystal
testified that Debra, Jackie was fired during maternity leave.
That is enough to show, raise an inference of discrimination
in this case.
THE COURT: Okay. The Court will reserve decision
on the plaintiff's, defendants's motion.
Anything else? Are you ready to start, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: We will send William back to get the
jury.
So we can go to about 15 minutes. If you get to a
logical break before that, like 5 of or 1:00, let me know and
we will stop then.
MR. FORMAN: I'll try to do preliminary work for
discovery.
THE COURT: Good.
(Jury enters.)
properly seated.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
MR. FORMAN: And for the defendants, we do.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, thank

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you. We are ready now to begin, start the next building
block. If you paid careful attention to the preliminary
instructions that you received yesterday, you know that the
next building block is the defendants's case. Mr. Forman
tells me he has a witness ready.
Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: The first witness would be Ann Marie
Garriques.
THE COURT: Take the stand, Ms. Garriques.
THE CLERK: Raise your right hand.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Please state your name for the record
and spell it.
THE WITNESS: My name is Ann Marie, A-N-N, M-A-R-I-E
my last name is, G-A-R-R-I-Q-U-E-S, and it's pronounced
Garriques.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: You may inquire, Mr. Forman.
MR. FORMAN: Thank you, Your Honor. If all the
witnesses need that device, it might create be feedback.
THE COURT: I do not think anyone needs it other
than Dr. Abraham.
MR. FORMAN: I think it's creating a feedback.
THE COURT: So we can shut it off.

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Garriques - direct - Forman
229
ANN MARIE GARRIQUES,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Ms. Garriques, can you tell us your address?
A My address is 73-33 174th Street in Fresh Meadows,
New York 11366.
Q And do you live with Dr. Abraham?
A Yes.
Q And for how long have you been living there?
A I've been there longer than Dr. Abraham. I would say
I've lived there for 18 years.
Q Who are you currently employed by?
A I'm currently employed by South Queens Medical.
Q Prior to that, who were you employed that?
A Prior to that, Park Management Systems.
Q And for how long were you employed by Park Health
Management Systems?
A I was employed from 1993 until the last two years when
the system changed to South Queens Medical.
THE COURT: Is that 2013?
THE WITNESS: Yeah. I think, yeah.
Q And do you have a family?
A Yes. I have two children.

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Q And when were they born?
A It's very difficult to talk about my children, extremely.
So I want you all to excuse me.
I have, I have two children. Michael and Michelle,
that I had to leave in California to take employment in
New York to support them. At the time I lost my home. My son
was living in his car and my daughter had to live with
strangers because I had a very bad divorce. So I lost
everything.
Q And that was in where?
A That was in California.
Q And how did you wind up in New York?
A I met Dr. Abraham in 1978 when I came from London. My
grandmother brought me to the clinic and as usual, you know,
they like to show off their granddaughter that I was a nurse
from London, and she wanted to know if Dr. Abraham needed a
nurse, or have jobs and he said yes.
So that's how I met Dr. Abraham.
Q What is your highest level of education?
A I have a college degree. I graduated from the London
University like, I don't know, when I did my credits here, you
know, they give and take with the education. So I think it's
similar to a bachelor's degree.
Q And do you have any licenses or certificates?
A Well, I have a lot of certificates. I was a licensed

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nurse in, to start, but then I gave it up. I went to
community outreach because I loved doing that thing. I loved
helping people.
Q Where was that?
A It started back in California, back in the '80s, '84,
'89. When I found out there was a lot of single moms and just
hardship people were having, so working in a medical facility
there, I was drawn to that sort of, you know, caring for these
women and children.
I actually, prior to losing my house, used to have
my mom watch the single mom's children in my house so their
mothers could go to work.
We didn't charge them.
Q Going back to London, what kind of work were you doing
there?
A Actually, when I worked in London, I worked at North
Hampton and I work at Warden Eye Unit, I used to do
ophthalmology. I liked that.
Q What was your job or title or position?
A Right. When I was there, I was, they called me what they
call a sister, and my last job in London at Warden Eye Clinic.
I was an OR nurse assisting the surgeon.
Q Why did you leave England?
A I actually left London because, at the time, the salary
was very low and my aunt, who sponsored me, felt that it would

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be better for me to come to the States for a better life.
Q So you came to California?
A I came to -- no. I came directly to New York. I stayed
in New York from 1978 to 1983 when I was separated from my
husband, I had only my son, but as usual, I had to -- no,
think about the child. It wasn't a very good marriage. So he
asked me to come back, which I did, and I moved to California
from 1983 to 1993 then I came back to New York.
Q What were you doing in New York the first time?
A The first time I worked at Dr. Abraham's office on and
off, and I also worked with the agency, going into people's
homes, taking care of them, that basis.
Q As an aide or as a nurse?
A As an aide, because I wasn't licensed to work in the
States yet.
Q You did that for five years?
A I literally did, yes.
Q And then you got back with your husband in California?
A Correct. I got back with my husband in California and we
stayed together, we stayed together for a while, but it was a
very abusive marriage. I ended up in the intensive care unit
with punctured lungs and it was horrible. So I had to get
out.
Q And you went back to New York?
A Actually, after the divorce, which was 1989, I was

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working in California. I worked at Hanson Medical Group, you
know, doing the, what you call a review manager because HMOs
were just coming in to, so they train you how to do the
history, look at the cases before they were submitted, and I
did that for a while, but the salary that I was making was
equivalent to a master's, which I didn't have, and when you
get to a certain maturity, I mean people don't tell you that,
I was downsized, and at the time I couldn't afford to take
that salary.
So I called Dr. Abraham's office just by mistake and
he said, yes, I remembered you. I had a heart attack and I
need somebody to manage.
So, my aunt sent me the plane ticket and I came in
'93 and I've since been here. I left my young kids.
Q When did you have your second child?
A I had my second child at age 32, I did.
Q Where were you when you had your second child?
A I was in -- she was born in 1984, so I was in California.
Q And when you came to New York, were you hired by
Dr. Abraham?
A Yes. When I came back the second time to New York, yes,
I had called him in advance. As I said, my aunt, who I lived
with, sent me the plane ticket and I came and he hired and,
you know, I started, I noticed the office was very disheveled
and being that it's a minority community, and because I've

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always had the passion for caring for people, I stayed on and,
you know, just make it better. And that's when I started my
outreach in 1994 with the American Cancer Society.
Q In 1994, what kind of work were you doing with them?
A Okay. In 1994, I don't know if you guys are familiar,
there were a lot of women that had no insurance and they had,
what you call the Queens Breast Health Partnership through the
American Cancer Society. So I felt that was important because
this is a minority, poor medical area. There was so much
health disparities.
So we started that where you get funding from the
State and you, you know, screen the woman for Pap, colonoscopy
and mammography.
Q You stayed employed with Park Health Center since then?
A Correct. And extended my outreach to the mother and
children, you know, you have a lot of them that are homeless
and I do the young girls that come out of prison that have no
where, I mentor them.
I don't know if you heard about the young adult,
YSPC, program through the high school where the government pay
the children so we could reform them back into society. And
that's what I basically do, and runs the office, but my
outreach is my priority.
Q And do you have the health fairs at Park Health Center?
A I have a lot of health fair. Every year I go to the

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churches. I have a big one that they look forward to because
they love that I make jerk chicken for them, and I have a
great time doing that. I really do. I love it.
Q For how long have you been doing that?
A Oh, my God. I've been doing it from 1994 until present.
I even get the politicians involved.
Q Is that a day-long a fair or longer?
A It's a day long. I usual usually start 10 to about
3 o'clock.
Q And what happens at the fairs?
A We do free blood pressure screening, blood sugar
screening, colonoscopy. We give them the kit to take home.
We weigh them. We give them information that they could take
back to their primary care doctor, if they're not our doctors,
and we really educate them on obesity. You know, we have the
charts and all that good stuff, preventive care.
Q And what's your job in these fairs? What do you do?
A Well, I usually coordinated. Make sure I get vendors to
come in, you know, go to the politicians, see if I could have
money to help set these fairs up. That's basically, yeah.
Q And have your job duties at Park Health Center ever
changed?
A I don't think so. What I mainly do is, in the, I make
sure that we have staff to work. I give them their schedule.
I want you to understand the reason why I work at

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Park Health Center is because I make it like a family
atmosphere. You know, we have a lot of mothers there that are
single moms, so there's not a stringent, no, you have to come
to work this time. I'm very, very lenient because I
understand. Until you experience that, then you understand
what people are going through.
So it's a very informal atmosphere, very informal.
They can come, they can go, they can do anything they want to
do. You know, thank God for texts, they'll text me and stuff
like that. So we're not stringent, no, we're not.
Q Specifically, in the physical therapy department, are
they all women?
A Yes, they are. Yes. Yes.
Q And around the time that Veronika went out on maternity
leave, were they all women?
A Yes, yeah.
Q Can you tell us what your duties are specifically with
scheduling?
A Well, I usually look -- mainly, I hardly have much to do
with the physical therapy department. My main concern was the
medical downstairs, with the providers, making sure they have
medical assistance for them to support them; the imaging
department, making sure their accreditation, you know, because
as you know, the Department of Health does random health
check, so in the morning I'm make sure that everything is

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okay.
When it came to physical therapy, they would come
and call and say, oh, Miss Ann Marie, somebody didn't come in.
I say, okay, I'll try to go up there. Even sometimes I myself
go up and answer the phone. But I hardly have much to do with
that department.
As I said, it's an informal atmosphere.
Q And do you interview applicants for work at Park Health
Center?
A Yes, I do. Most of the time that, the applicants that I
get is people who would send them to me, the ones that comes
to me directly. They would come to me, you know, friend would
say, oh, go see Ms. Ann Marie, probably she can help you get a
job and I would do that. I do interview them.
Most of the time also these are people that don't
have the opportunity to get a job, but has the passion to care
for people. So sometimes I don't even bother checking their
references. I just give them that opportunity to prove
themselves.
Q Does -- do you hire them yourself or do you need
approval?
A No. After we interview, sometimes I'll go to Dr. A and
say, look, we have to let this lady stay. Sometimes he
doesn't agree with me, but most of the times he agrees with me
and says okay.

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Q And do you recall anyone that you fired at Park Health
Center?
A I never, never fire anyone. Never.
If -- when most of the time, if they are not doing
well, I will talk to them, I will tell them, because the word
"fire" to me is taking bread out of their mouth and I would
not do that. That's against my belief because I'm a strong
person for women rights and I advocate for them. I really do
that.
MR. FORMAN: I think this is a good time to take a
break.
THE COURT: Right. We were shooting for around 1:00
and that seems to be a logical break time.
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we are going to
take our lunch break. The same rules apply as they did
yesterday.
You are certainly free if you brought your lunch,
William will arrange a place for you to eat it. To the extent
you are going out, you're certainly welcome to do that, but
wherever you eat your lunch, in or out, you're not to discuss
the case amongst yourselves or with anyone else. You continue
to keep an open mind and not to use the recess period as an
opportunity to conduct any research of your own about anything
that touches either remotely about this case, and if you are
on social media, we remain on radio silence. No references to

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the case, the personalities in the case, the fact that you're
sitting as a juror, or that you're even here at the Federal
Courthouse in Brooklyn.
We hope you enjoy your lunch. Get back to the jury
room some time between 2:00 and 2:15, and we'll start as close
as we can to that time.
Thanks again for your patience and your cooperation.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: You're free to stand down,
Ms. Garriques.
And the lawyers, the same rules apply. To the
extent you want to leave anything, you're certainly welcome to
do that. William will secure the courtroom, but if you think
you might need something during the lunch break, take it with
you because William will secure the courtroom. So we will see
you around 2:15 or so.
Enjoy your lunch, too.
(Luncheon recess.)

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AFTERNOON SESSION
THE COURT: Everybody ready to go?
MS. BUSH: Yes.
THE COURT: Bring the jury in. Ms. Garriques, you
can resume the stand.
(Jury enters.)
THE COURT: Counsel will stipulate that the jury is
present and properly seated.
MS. BUSH: The jury is present.
MR. FORMAN: The defendants so stipulate.
ANN MARIE GARRIQUES ,
resumed, having been previously duly sworn, was examined
and testified further as follows:
THE COURT: Good afternoon, Ms. Garriques. You are
still under oath.
THE COURT: Mr. Forman still has direct examination
of you.
And you may resume, Mr. Forman.

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DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN: (Continuing)
Q Ms. Garriques, was there a time that you had any parties
or baby showers for women who were giving birth at Park Health
Center?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall who that was for?
A The first one I did was for Fabiola and the second one I
did, it was for Debra, for her first pregnancy.
Q Okay. And about when was Fabiola expecting?
A This is going back some years. Seven, like seven -- way
back. So, because her son is now seven years old.
Q So it would be seven years ago?
A Yes, yes.
Q And what did you do for her?
A Actually we bonded with her family, her family and I, we
got together and we asked her what she wanted, you know, the
family. So her mother and her sister, we got, she wanted the
color green, so we made the baby shower green, and her mom and
her sisters and the staff, we decorated the basement area and
we surprised her. And she loved it.
Q And what was her job duties or title at Park Health
Center?
A She was a medical assistant working with me downstairs.
So at the time she was working in pediatric.

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Q And what was Debra's title when she worked at Park Health
Center?
A Actually, Debra at the time, for the first pregnancy, was
working with me downstairs also as a medical assistant.
Q And what did you do for Debra?
A I remember we rented a chair and we had like cake, drinks
and all the staff bring presents. This was for her first
pregnancy.
Q And did Debra, on her first pregnancy, did she give you a
note that she was taking maternity leave?
A You know, on her first pregnancy, I don't recall. I mean
I know she was pregnant and I know she was going on maternity
leave. So I don't think she gave me like a formal paper, you
know.
Q What happened with her first pregnancy?
A Unfortunately, she Debra had a miscarriage.
Q How long a time was she out?
A A couple of weeks, because it was really sad.
Q What happened after that with Debra?
A Well, she came back to work. She worked, I think, in the
physical therapy area, or sometimes she was downstairs. I
remember specifically she worked a couple of hours downstairs
with the gastroenterologist, and then she went upstairs also.
Q Was there also a receptionist, Shereen Himraj, worked at
Park Health Center?

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A Yes. Shereen used to work with us and she was in the
imaging department.
Q Did she get pregnant at work?
A Shereen pregnancy was total confidential, not even myself
knew that she, Shereen was pregnant because Shereen had such
great difficulty getting pregnant, so when Shereen became
pregnant, it was very confident.
Q And then what happened with Ms. Himraj?
A Well, after Shereen miscarried, she had a friend there.
Rita told me Shereen would like to speak to you on the phone
and she called to tell me, you know, she had lost the baby and
I said, you know, Shereen, I felt so bad, you can take your
time, your job is always here, you know. Just take it easy.
Mend yourself and you come back.
Q And when did that happen in relation to Veronika getting
pregnant?
A You know, I cannot, I cannot put it together because, as
I said, Shereen pregnancy was confidential.
Q Was it before or after Veronika?
A You know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure because I don't
have the information when the pregnancy occurred with Shereen.
Q And anyone else, any other medical assistant or physical
therapy aides that were pregnant at Park Health Center?
A Well, not during the time. Since then everybody is
pregnant. We have a joke that everyone who drink the water at

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Park Health have a baby, which is good, you know, but they
come and they get pregnant, they go and come back, they bring
the baby to show me, they call me grandma, you know, we buy
them presents, that's what it's about, family.
Q What about that, there's testimony that she had a second
pregnancy?
A Debra had a high-risk pregnancy the second time and she
herself was very scared, yes.
Q And did you know that she was pregnant?
A Yes, she did tell me and I told her, Debra, this time,
your going to be really careful, be very careful, because
there was some issues where she had to be on bedrest and I
don't know, I think she had to switch something to keep the
baby in, she had explained that to me.
Q And for how long was she out?
A I think Debra -- you see, it's very difficult for me to
say how long she was out. I think it's probably about two to
three months, because of the pregnancy, and she always called
to let me know how she's doing. She always tell me, Miss Ann,
they call me Miss Ann Marie, I'm going to be coming. I say,
Debra, you can come any time you want and eventually when she
was ready, she returned.
Q What job did she assume when she came back?
A She worked at the receptionist in the physical therapy
department.

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Q And why did you place her up there?
A Well, it's not a matter of placing her up there. At the
time, Veronika, when I discovered Veronika was pregnant was
the last day of her employment. So Veronika went and Debra
came, came back from maternity leave.
Q Let me show you what has previously been marked as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3 in evidence.
I don't know, I think it should still be up there.
That is the August 20, 2009, and lower right hand corner,
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.
A Yes, okay.
Q That's a letter to Dr. Abraham where Veronika says that
she'll be going out August 27th and coming back two months,
but it's actually three months, November 23rd.
And prior to this lawsuit, when did you see this
letter?
A Actually, this letter was shown to me, I think, when we
were doing the deposition. I never received this letter. I
never saw this letter. I think it's when the hearing came up
that was a surprise. I knew of no letter.
Q And there was testimony that in July, around July 4th,
there had been a conversation with Dr. Abraham and Veronika
Chauca and Veronika said she told Dr. Abraham that she was
pregnant and she recorded the conversation.
When did you first learn about that conversation?

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A I think when we had the hearing. That was the first time
I heard about the tape and the first time I saw the letter. I
was not aware of it. I wasn't aware there was any taping or
any letter.
Q And when did you learn that Veronika was pregnant?
A On the day that she was, was her last date. I don't have
the date specifically, but I remember I went up in the
physical therapy area and she told me today was her last day.
My response was, I'm sure, you know, I'm the sort of
person that gets excited about stuff, so I'm sure I
congratulated her and wished her luck, and that was the
relationship.
Q So when Veronika left, who was in the physical therapy
department?
A When Veronika left in the physical therapy department,
you had Debra who was working at the time, I think two to
three days because she just came back from maternity leave.
You had Crystal, who was helping the psychologist and helped a
little bit at the reception area, and she did a couple of days
also. And Jackie, at the time, worked two days in the back
doing the physical therapy aide, because at the time Jackie
had another job. So she was only working there two days.
Q So who were the physical therapy aides after Veronika
left?
A I think it was only Jackie and Debra sometime would pitch

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in. That was it.
Q How about to the present time, has that changed?
A You mean now?
Q Yes.
A Well, now I'm not involved totally up there because it's
under a new owner, you know, LLP. So I have absolutely
nothing to do with it.
Q Okay. As far as you know, from the time that Veronika
left, how far were you still involved with PT?
A I think after -- not very much because I think Dr. Cohen
took over, you know, quite a bit.
You see, I was, as I said, I was never really
involved in PT more than making sure there's coverage there
and if they need supplies, because I order the supplies,
they'll let me know. I hardly see, I hardly saw Veronika.
Q Okay. But to your knowledge, do you have knowledge of
who came and went in the PT department?
A Yes. Yes.
Q So what other, if any, PT aides like -- which is the same
title as Veronika, have been hired since the time Veronika
left?
A I don't think anyone because Jackie was there and Debra
was there and Crystal is not a PT aide, so I don't think
there's anyone.
Q And you testified you didn't have, know about the

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conversation with Dr. Abraham.
A Yes, I was not. I was pretty surprised actually.
Q And you had a conversation with Veronika the last day she
was there?
A Yes. I went in the PT area, she was sitting there, and
she told me, you know, this was her last day. I remember
specifically.
Q Okay. And when did you next speak to Veronika?
A I spoke to Veronika December 12th, '09.
Q And what did you say and what did she say?
A This is when I came back from Thanksgiving, you know,
after being with my family, I came back 12, I remember it was
12/2/09. She called the office --
THE COURT: 12-2 or 12-12.
THE WITNESS: 12-12, I'm sorry, Your Honor.
Q I'm sorry. You said it was around Thanksgiving?
A Yeah, I had just come back from my Thanksgiving vacation.
Q How long was your Thanksgiving vacation?
A I came back the December 2nd, 12th -- either the 12th or
the 2nd. It's 12/2/09, I came back. In my mind, I came back
on a Thursday. I remember that very well because I missed my
flight Wednesday.
Q What did you say and what did she say?
A Okay. When Veronika called, I put Veronika on the
speaker in the presence of Sheila. I told Veronika that, you

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know, with the HMO changes coming in and the changes that
occur in health care, at this present time, we're slow. I
told her please keep in touch with her and I remember
specifically asking her for her cell number, because I
documented it and I put the number at the bottom of the note.
And I turned to Sheila and I said, you know, this
lady is going, looks like she is -- this is term I use, I
don't know if it's the right word -- like she's fishing for
trouble. I remember saying that. So that's why I had her on
speaker and I documented what I told her.
Q Let me show you what has been marked Plaintiff's
Exhibit 4 and ask if you've seen that before.
MR. FORMAN: This is plaintiff's exhibit. I'm not
sure if this is in evidence.
THE COURT: Is that in evidence?
MR. FORMAN: I move.
THE COURT: Any objections?
MS. BUSH: No, sir.
THE COURT: Received in evidence.
(So marked.)
MR. FORMAN: Let me see if I have copies for the
jury. I don't think I have copies.
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Do you recognize this document?
A Yes.

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Q And it's dated on top. It says 2/09, but I think the 12
is cut off?
A 12/2/09, that's correct.
Q That's the date of the document?
A Correct.
Q Whose handwriting is on this document?
A That's my handwriting.
Q What is this?
A After, when she was on the speaker after our
conversation, when I had Sheila listen, I said, you know, this
lady is fishing for trouble. So I wrote everything that I
told her and I also asked her for her cell number and you can
see where I documented it.
Q You want to read that to the jury?
A Yes.
I spoke with Veronika via the telephone. She was
informed that at this time, at this present time, we will not
be able to take her back due to the changes in the health care
and the health care reform. We have started reducing the
hours of the staff and possible will be laying off some of the
staff. She was informed if there's any changes, we will give
her a call, but she should keep in touch with us.
And I had her cell number written there.
Q And whose signature is that at the bottom?
A That's my signature.

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Q Where did you keep this document after 12/2/2009?
A It was in our folder, the employment folder.
Q And what happened after that between you and Veronika?
A There's nothing happened. I mean she said she called. I
never received any call and I want to let you guys know that
the office is really busy and I get a lot of calls, and I
always tell the employee if you want to get in touch with me,
come to the office because being the manager, as you know,
there's so many calls coming in from the Department of Health,
from the insurance company for audits, so sometimes I'm really
and truly overwhelmed.
On my voicemail, sometimes I have 2' to 300 calls.
So they usually come in and it's an open office. As I said,
it's very informal.
If Veronika wanted to come back, she would have come
back. She could have come in. Just as how she said in her
statement, she kept in touch with the other staff members.
She could have come in. Bring her baby in, show us. She
never did.
Q You heard testimony that Veronika said that she tried to
reach you for three months?
A Well, I don't know, Mr. Forman. I have a voicemail and
if she wanted to really reach me, you can call the office and
tell the operator, please, I have to speak to Ann Marie, and
they'll page me.

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Q I show you a document that's marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 2
and ask if you've seen that before, and I do have this.
I'm showing you a document that seems to be dated
July 30, 2009. Do you see that document?
A Yes.
Q And whose handwriting is that?
A That's my handwriting.
Q Is that your signature?
A That's correct.
MR. FORMAN: I'd like to move to have this exhibit
into evidence.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: No problem.
THE COURT: No problem?
MS. BUSH: No problem.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Looking at what's marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 2, can you
read that to the jury?
A Debra was informed that she will be working Fridays and
Saturdays to start since the office is slowing down. And I
signed it and I had Sheila witness it.
Q Okay. And why did you write this down?
A Because the office was really not, you know, doing very

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well.
Q And on July 30, 2009, did Debra come back?
A I don't know what specific day she started, but I know
she started working Fridays and Saturdays. I would have to
get her employment folder to really be specific.
Q When you write that Debra was informed that she'll be
working Fridays and Saturdays to start, how did you inform
her?
A Verbally. She came. Actually, she came to the office.
I remember that. She came, because, you know, they usually
come and talk with me, bring their babies over, and she did
come in and that's how we had that conversation, face to face,
and, you know, I said how are you feeling, Debra?
She said well. I said, are you sure? Are you ready
to work? She said yes.
So she started out two days.
Q And you've heard testimony that Veronika and Crystal said
that you fired Debra?
A I never fired Debra. Debra and I have one of the best
relationship. I met Debra through the Visiting Nurse Service.
She was looking for a job. She was taking care of a couple of
patients at the office and one of the administrators said Ann
Marie, please, she's a good medical assistant, you know, she
was doing the home health aide, she would do good in the
office, and I loved her because she was always pretty and

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happy and she cheered the people up.
We had a good relationship. Why would I want to
fire her?
Q And you heard testimony -- and do you know that Jackie
also became pregnant while working?
A Jackie, yes. Jackie was pregnant while working. Yes.
Q And how did that go?
A Well, what happened is Jackie became pregnant while she
was working, and she had really bad morning sickness. She
lost a lot of weight, Jackie, and actually, she went into the
hospital and when Jackie was in the hospital, I was paying her
rent and sending food for her and giving her money. So why
would I fire her?
You know, I -- I'm not that type the person. I'm a
humane person. I care for people.
Q How long was Jackie out with her --
A Jackie was out for a while. She used to communicate with
me with the phone. She'd say, oh, Miss Ann, I'm in the
hospital, you know, I'm not doing well, because the baby was
premature. And I used to encourage her to say a premature
baby doesn't mean that, you know, you might not have a child,
and thank God the little boy, Anthony is his name, he turned
out really nice. And, you know, she had some struggles, she
was really ill where she literally nearly died.
Q And has she been working at Park Health since then?

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A Of course. She came back. When she was ready, she came
back.
Q And did you ever terminate her?
A I would never do that. I would never do that. It's not
in me.
Q Did Debra come back for two days?
A Yes. I remember her working Fridays and Saturdays.
Q For how long?
A You know what, I'm not sure, but I know she, for a while
she did Fridays and Saturdays.
Q And what happened after that as far as her hours go?
A I think as time -- you know, Mr. Forman, as she did
Fridays and Saturdays and I think as, you know, if things got
better, you know, she probably had another day. But I just
want to make something very clear.
I did try to call Veronika and when I tried that
number, it says it was temporarily disconnected. I remember
that.
Q Let me show you what's been previously marked as
Defendants's Exhibit J and ask if you've seen that before.
(Pause).
Q This is a document about disability benefits for Veronika
Chauca dated November 6, 2009. Have you seen that before?
A No, no. This is the first time you're showing me.
Q Did you have a baby shower for Debra?

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A Not for the second one because of the misfortune. She
didn't want to have anything.
Q How did you learn about that?
A She told me. She said Miss Ann, I don't want a baby
shower, you know. She told me.
Q Other than the lawsuit here and the Division of Human
Rights from Veronika, has anybody else at Park Health Center
complained about discrimination around the same time?
A No, absolutely not; no.
Q Prior to Veronika, that was the first complaint you had
received about discrimination?
A Correct, and when it came in, I actually didn't take it
seriously. I thought why is she suing me? I mean, I didn't
do anything wrong. I did my job. I'm being sued because I
did my job, what I was instructed to do, as an office manager.
Q Why do you say that -- who instructed you?
A Dr. Abraham told me to inform Veronika that the office --
what I read here, just like this. He said, make sure she's
aware that the business is not busy at this time and, you
know, keep in touch with us. And that's why I was sued.
MR. FORMAN: No further questions.
THE COURT: Ms. Bush, any cross?
MS. BUSH: Yes.

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Garriques - cross - Bush
257
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Good afternoon, Ms. Garriques.
A Good afternoon.
Q You were employed as the office manager at Park Health
between June 2006 and 2009, is that correct?
A Correct, yes.
Q You were part of the management team at Park, is that
correct?
A Yes, I'm the office manager.
Q Your duties include giving the staff handbook to new
members, is that correct?
A Yes, we did have a handbook that we have, yes.
Q If anyone has a complaint, you make note of it and you
show it to Dr. Abraham, is that correct?
A Well, yes, if anybody complained, we would write it and
put it in their folder.
Q You drafted some of the job descriptions at Park, you
drafted them between 2006 and 2009, is that correct?
A Well, it's not job descriptions, per se, because, as I
said, I worked downstairs and there were medical assistants
and there are doctors down there, so the medical assistants
know exactly what to do.
Q So you drafted the medical assistant job descriptions, is
that correct?

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A Yes. Like they know they have to have their uniforms on
in the morning and get the rooms ready, and they have to
assist the doctors. Basically they're told that.
Q So you basically do a lot of the human resources job, is
that correct?
A No. No. The human resources part, which is payroll and
their employment, is kept upstairs. Basically Sheila does
that part. I do more of the medical, the hiring and just
making sure the operation of the office.
Q So you hire at Park, is that right?
A Well, when you say you hire at Park, it is a conjunction
with Dr. Abraham. He is in charge of me. I don't make these
decision. He would tell me here is an applicant. You know,
he might, sometime he does it by himself or he might call me
in the room and says, you know, why don't you check her
reference, see where we could put her, and that's what we do.
Q And you interviewed the plaintiff, is that correct?
A No, I never interviewed Veronika. Dr. Abraham did that
on her own. He brought me the application in the physical
therapy department. He said to me specifically that this lady
wanted to work, she wanted to work part-time hours because she
did not want to lose her benefits and I told, I turned to
Veronika and I said, when do you want to start? And I think
she told me, I can't remember, it was like on a Monday, you
know, but it was specifically when Dr. Abraham handed me the

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application, she said, he said she wants to work part time
because she doesn't want to lose her benefits. I remembered
that. I never interviewed Veronika. Veronika went directly
to Dr. Abraham, not to me.
Q Well, Dr. Abraham's testimony this morning was that you
did interview her?
A No, when he brought her to me, I never sat in the room.
Q But that was his testimony.
A It was after the fact.
THE COURT: Let's not be argumentative, Ms. Bush.
You are going to ask her a question.
MS. BUSH: Okay.
Q You also interviewed Crystal, is that correct?
A No. When you say interviewed Crystal, Crystal came into
the office out of desperation.
Q Okay.
A Dr. Gomez brought her to me. I never introduced her.
Q Yes or no?
A No. No. No.
Q Did you interview Shirlie?
A No, Shirlie was brought to me from a friend from the
American Cancer Society and I brought her to Dr. Abraham.
Q Ms. Garriques, can you restrict your answer to yes or no,
please.
A Well, it depends what you're asking.

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THE COURT: She is asking whether you personally,
not anybody else interviewed that employee.
THE WITNESS: Yes, we did them jointly with
Dr. Abraham.
THE COURT: Okay. Which one?
THE WITNESS: Crystal and Shirlie.
BY [!EZ SPEAKER 02]:
Q So your testimony is that you interviewed Crystal and
Shirlie jointly with Dr. A, yes?
A Correct.
Q What about Jackie, did you interview her?
A When Jackie came to us --
Q The answer is yes or no.
THE COURT: You can think that through your mind,
then --
A Yes. I interviewed her. Yes.
THE COURT: You cannot think out loud.
THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm trying to recall.
Q So there came a point when Veronika was pregnant,
correct?
A Repeat the question.
Q There came a point when Veronika got pregnant, correct?
A I don't understand. Repeat it.
Q There came a point when Veronika got pregnant?
THE COURT: That's a lawyer's way of asking, do you

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recall that Veronika got pregnant.
THE WITNESS: No, not until the last day when she
was about to leave. I did not know Veronika was pregnant.
Q Will you please listen to the question.
There came a point when Veronika got pregnant, is
that correct?
A I guess, yes.
Q You were -- I'm sorry.
You're aware that Dr. Abraham had been given a
letter?
A No, no, not until the hearing.
Q No?
A Correct.
Q Dr. Abraham didn't tell you that he received a letter
from Veronika?
A That's correct.
Q Sheila didn't tell you that she had received a letter
from Veronika and she filed it?
A Correct.
Q You lived with Dr. Abraham at this point?
A When you said we lived with Dr. Abraham, that's the wrong
term.
Q What's the correct term?
A Okay. I'm a single mom with two kids and to live in
New York, it's very expensive. Dr. Abraham is a senior

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citizen, and his trust company asked me, because the house --
he lives upstairs, I live downstairs -- if I would stay there.
My rent is $500 a month, so I could support my
children in California, and that's what I agreed to. We do
not discuss the office business. He has his own place and I
have my own place.
Q Have you ever had a romantic relationship with
Dr. Abraham?
A No, absolutely not.
Q Were you aware that Veronika was supposed to return from
maternity leave in November?
A Yes, because when I came back from California, which was
the 2nd of December, that's when I spoke to Veronika and I was
aware that she needed to come back to work.
Q Did she come back to work?
A I told you, when she called, as I said, she was informed
that, by the telephone, that at the present time, we'll not be
able to take her back due to the changes in the health care
and the Health Care Reform, and that we are starting reducing
staff hours and, you know, for her to keep in touch with her,
with us.
Q So Veronika got her hours reduced completely, is that
correct?
A What hours are you referring to as being reduced? I
don't understand.

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Q Okay. Veronika worked for you, correct? She worked --
A She does not work for me. She works for the Park Health
Center and the Park Management System. I am the office
manager. I some time goes up to physical therapy if they're
short and they need help.
When it comes to their hours, I don't know about the
reduction. I just know that I'm, I'm responsible to making
that floor cover, that they have coverage there, and at the
time, it was very slow. The place was literally empty.
Q At the time Veronika went out on her pregnancy leave, how
many hours was she working?
A I do not know. You can get her -- Sheila would have to
answer that because she's the payroll clerk.
Q Who told you the business was slow at Park?
A You could tell. When you went to the floor, it was
empty. You looked -- we have what you call sign-in sheets.
You know, when you come into the doctor, you sign in, and you
could see the numbers were less, a lot less.
Q Whose decision was it to cut Veronika's hours?
THE COURT: Yes. It misstates her answer.
Maybe if, Ms. Bush, if you lay the foundation here.
On December 2, 2009, how many hours did Veronika
have working at Park Management?
THE WITNESS: You know what? I'm not sure, Your

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Honor.
Q Was it more than ten?
A I am not sure.
THE COURT: Was she there at all that day?
THE WITNESS: No. This was -- all I had was
conversation on the phone. She was not in the office, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: So that week she worked zero?
THE WITNESS: Correct, Your Honor.
Q Why did she work zero hours that week?
A She never came back. That's what I'm telling you. I
spoke to her on the phone so she wasn't working.
Q Were there hours for her to come back and work?
A That -- no, because I told you that we were slow.
Q Why were Veronika's hours cut or reduced?
A But they weren't -- she never came back to work, so how
could she, how could you cut or reduce your hours?
On December the 2nd, I told you that we were slow so
when she called, I told you that we will be in touch with her.
There was no hours for her to get --
THE COURT: On December 2, 2009 --
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: -- what was Veronika Chauca's status?
THE WITNESS: She was, as far as I know, she was on
maternity leave waiting to come back.

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Q Did she return from maternity leave?
A No, she did not, because we told her that the office was
slow, we were reducing the staff and to keep in touch with us.
She never returned back.
Q Why were Veronika's hours cut in particular and not
Jackie --
THE COURT: She does not recognize that as the
expression. You might want to try it in a different
formulation with respect to the, how it came to pass that the
employees who were working at Park Management that day were
chosen to work in the physical therapy department.
THE WITNESS: Is that a question, Your Honor? How
were they chosen? I think they were not really chosen. They
were working all the time, Jackie, Crystal and Debra.
Q Did Jackie have her hours reduced in December of 2009?
A Well, Jackie only worked two days to start with. She was
only working two days.
Debra worked, I think, two to three days, and
Crystal worked a couple of days. So their hours were already
reduced.
Q How many hours was Veronika working?
A As I said again, I don't know. I would have to look at
her employment records. I don't --
THE COURT: Well, again, she is referring to
December 2nd.

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THE WITNESS: Well, she had no hours. She never
returned.
Q Veronika was the most senior staff member in the physical
therapy department, isn't that correct?
A It depends on what you said senior.
Q She had been there the longest?
A Well, yes.
Q She was also a certified physical therapy aide, isn't
that correct?
A No. I want to let you understand --
THE COURT: No, that is the question. It is either
yes or no.
A Well, I guess yes.
Q And she trained Debra in the range of motion machines, is
that correct?
A Not that I'm aware of.
Q She trained Jackie in the range of motion machine, isn't
that correct?
A Not that I'm aware of. Jackie never did range of motion,
not that I'm aware of.
Q Do you know who chose Veronika to have her hours
eliminated completely? Who made that decision?
A Dr. Abraham.
Q And what was that based on?
A The, the volume had already been reduced.

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Q Why did he make the decision to eliminate Veronika's
hours and not Debra's?
A Because the office was slow. It was slowing down.
Q Veronika was fired because she was on maternity leave,
was she not?
A She was never fired.
THE COURT: Overruled. The witness can answer.
A She was never, ever fired.
Q Well, her hours were eliminated completely, isn't that
true?
A No, she was supposed to keep in touch with us and she did
not.
Q Did she have a job to come back to?
A If she had keeping in touch with us, just as though we
shuffled all the staff, I'm sure she would have been able to
fit in even for one or two days, but she did not keep in touch
with us. She did not make any phone calls.
Q That is not true, is it, Ms. Garriques?
A It is the truth. The first time I spoke to Veronika was
December 2nd, '09 after my Thanksgiving vacation. That was
the first conversation I had with her.
Q You said that when Veronika called, she was fishing for
trouble, is that correct?
A When she called, the way she spoke, you could tell she

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had -- you know, when you make a phone call and you want to
come back to work, the person would say hi, Miss Ann Marie,
how are you doing? My baby is fine, I want to come back.
But with Veronika, the way she spoke, in my heart,
my instinct, I knew something was up and that's why I wrote
down exactly what I told her. I knew in my heart, I felt it.
It wasn't a warm call. You know, it was like different, and I
knew that.
Q She had been working there for three years, isn't that
correct?
A She had been working there for three years, yes.
Q And she was a good employee, wasn't she?
A Well, again, I cannot assess or evaluate her employment
because I worked mainly downstairs. The only time I'll go up
to the physical therapy department if they were short. I
didn't go up or supervise them or do that. I hardly had
contact with Veronika. Hardly.
Q You said that you called Veronika and her phone was
temporarily disconnected, is that correct?
A Yes, that is the truth. I remember sometime, it's either
January or February, I called her and it says it was
temporarily out of service. I did.
Q Why were you calling her?
A Well, at the time when I called, I wanted to see if she
wanted to come back.

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Q Did you make any further attempts to communicate with
her?
A Well, after the phone number was disconnected, no, I did
not.
Q Why not?
A Because the number was disconnected, so I presume, you
know, it's probably out of order. I really didn't go back to
do that again.
Q Did you write to her?
A No, I did not.
Q Why not?
A Well, I guess, you know, it's a busy office. I mean,
it's not an excuse not to write to someone, but one of the
problems I have with the staff, they might put one address on
their applications, and sometime they send the letters, they
don't get it. I didn't write to her, but I did call her and
the number was disconnected. I did try.
Q Did you make any further efforts to connect to Veronika?
A No, I did not.
Q And what, you said January 2010?
A Yes, either between January, the late part of
January 2010, or the early part of February. It's in between
that time. I can't be specific.
Q So when Debra -- sorry, when Veronika went out on
maternity leave, who took over her duties?

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A I think Debra worked sometime in the back and sometime at
the front, but I cannot be specific because, as I told you,
most of the time, I was downstairs. If they were okay
upstairs, I had no need to go up there. So I can't be very
specific who took over whose duty.
Q Who would know?
A You can ask Debra and Jackie and Crystal because they all
worked together.
Q Did there come a time when Jackie became pregnant?
A Yes.
Q When was that?
A You know, again, I don't know the time. I really don't.
Because I don't keep -- you know, these are personal things
and I don't keep going and say, oh, you are pregnant. You
know, they always come to me and say, oh, Miss Ann, I'm going
to have a baby.
Q Ms. Garriques, if you can please restrict your answers to
my question.
A I don't know when she got pregnant.
Q When did she go out on leave because of her pregnancy?
A Jackie became very ill and she -- it's not that she went
on maternity ill. She, she was ill. She end up in the
hospital during the pregnancy.
Q You described -- you're not answering my questions.
THE COURT: Did she go out on maternity leave at any

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point?
THE WITNESS: No, she didn't. She didn't.
Q Did she go out on disability leave?
A I think after she had the baby, yes. But I can't be
sure. You can ask Sheila that question because she deals with
the disability papers.
Q Do you know whether Debra received disability?
A I don't know.
Q Was there a time when Jackie applied for unemployment?
A There, this again, I can't answer.
Q Who could answer?
A You could ask Sheila because she's the payroll manager.
She deals with all the paperwork.
Q Do you know whether Park paid Jackie unemployment when
she applied?
A I cannot answer that. You could ask Sheila Ramasre.
Q Did there come a time when Debra became pregnant?
A Yes.
Q When was that?
A I don't know. I don't know the dates.
Q Approximately?
A I don't know.
Q What year?
A I don't know. I don't know the dates.
Q You threw her a baby shower, did you not?

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A I did. I think it was probably at the end, like I don't
know the dates she became pregnant, but for the first baby
shower that I gave her, it's like in her seventh month when
she was about to leave. But I don't know the exact date of
her pregnancy. I know we had the shower about the seventh
month.
Q I'm talking about her second pregnancy.
A The second pregnancy, she did not have a baby shower.
She was very ill. She was a high-risk pregnancy.
Q Ms. Garriques, can you please restrict your answers to my
questions?
A She did not have a baby shower.
Q When did Debra go out on maternity leave, if you can
recall, for the second pregnancy?
A I don't recall. I don't recall.
Q Do you know when Debra was supposed to come back to work?
Do you recall?
A I don't know when Debra -- Debra called me on the phone
and said she had the baby. The specific time she wanted to
come back, she didn't say. But I know Debra came into the
office to see me and, you know, show me, I think she showed me
a picture of her son. And I think she said she was ready.
That's when I wrote that note back in July giving
her the Friday and the Saturdays.
Q When did she come back to work?

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A I want to say probably she started the following week,
the Friday and the Saturday.
Q Which was when?
A I don't have the specific dates. For me to give you
dates, I would have to have the employment records.
Q In December 2009, did anybody else in the physical
therapy department have their hours reduced permanently other
than Veronika?
THE COURT: Any -- assuming a fact not in evidence.
MS. BUSH: Sorry.
THE COURT: Were any hours permanently reduced in
2009?
THE WITNESS: I think Debra, Crystal and Jackie,
they were working part time.
Q Permanently reduced?
A Yes. They were working part time.
Q And how long were their hours reduced for?
A I remember Jackie working two days. I think Crystal
worked either two to three days and Debra worked either two to
three days.
Q And what month?
A I can't remember what month.
Q Were their hours reinstated?
A I think after, when Dr. Cohen took over, I think that's
when their, you know, it was reinstated, when he took over the

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physical therapy department, he made the changes and he
reinstated -- he was in charge of his staff.
Q So Debra had her -- are you testifying that Debra had her
hours in December of 2009?
A Yes, she only worked two days.
Q When did she have her hours reinstated?
A I'm saying when Dr. Cohen took over the department.
THE COURT: And when did Dr. Cohen take over the
department?
THE WITNESS: I want to say 2010, yes.
Q So it's your testimony that Debra was working for two or
three days from 2009 in 2010?
A I think so, yes. She was part time.
Q For one month?
A She worked part time, I think from July, August,
September, October, November, I think December. And then
Dr. Cohen took over, and he changed up his staff. I had no
more responsibility for them up there. That was his.
Q So in January of 2010, was Debra working more than part
time?
A I don't know. As I said, Dr. Cohen took over the
department, so I was relieved of my duties.
Q So in January 2010, was Jackie working more than part
time?
A I don't know because it was taken over by Dr. Cohen.

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Q So business, in fact, picked up in January 2010, is that
correct?
A It was taken over by Dr. Cohen and I don't know. At that
point, I didn't have anything more to do with physical therapy
department. It was under his control. So I don't know
whether business picked up or not because I was no longer
responsible.
Q Who told you that business had slowed down at Park. Who
told you that?
A It was very obvious. We had the number charts that we
kept on the wall in the room. As I say when the patient
signed it, at the end of the day, they would put how much
patients they see and you could see where the numbers were
getting lower and lower.
Q You are a defendant in this case, isn't that correct?
A Yes.
Q Have you produced any documentary evidence to this court
that business was slowing down?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. She does not
own the company.
THE COURT: The question is if she had any documents
in her possession that she turned over.
A No.
Q Who would have that documentation?
A I would think Dr. Abraham.

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Q Has he produced it to this court, do you know?
A I don't know.
MS. BUSH: Just one second.
(Pause.)
MS. BUSH: No further questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Bush.
Any redirect, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: No redirect.
THE COURT: You're excused, Ms. Garriques.
THE WITNESS: Thank you, sir.
(Witness excused.)
MR. FORMAN: We would like to call our second
witness, Debra Mahearwanlal.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Thank you. Please state your first and
last name and spell it for the record.
THE WITNESS: My name is Debra D-E-B-R-A, and my
last name is spelled M-E-H-E-A-R-W-A-N-L-A-L.
THE CLERK: Thank you. Have a seat, please.
THE COURT: Mr. Forman.
DEBRA MAHEARWANLAL ,

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Mahearwanlal - direct - Forman
277
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Ms. Mahearwanlal, can I call you Debra?
A Yes.
Q We've been referring to you as Debra. You'll have to
excuse us.
Where do you reside. Where do you live?
A I am at 161-21, 130th Avenue, Jamaica, New York, 11434.
Q And what's your highest level of education?
A High school.
Q Do you have any certificates or licenses?
A For my medical assistant and high school diploma.
Q And what is a certificate for medical assistant?
A I'm sorry?
Q What is a certificate for medical assistant?
A Medical assistant, that's my, my duty right now.
THE COURT: Who issued to you the certificate?
THE WITNESS: Oh, New York State.
Q And where did you get -- did you go to school for that?
A Yes.
Q And how long was the course?
A Eleven months.
Q And how many days a week?
A Two.
Q And how many hours a day?

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A Five.
Q Okay. What sorts of things did you learn about to get
the certificate?
A About helping the doctor, assisting the doctors, getting
stuff ready for the patient, get the patient ready to be seen
by the doctors.
Q And who are you currently employed by?
A Dr. Abraham.
Q At the Park Health Center?
A At the Park Health Center.
Q And when were you hired?
A 2006, October of 2006.
Q And for what job?
A Medical assistant.
Q And were you full time?
A Yes.
Q And when you started, how many hours a week was full
time?
A Forty hours.
Q And did there come a time when you started working at the
physical therapy department?
A Yes.
Q And how did that come about?
A They were a little short upstairs in the physical therapy
department, so my manager, which was Miss Ann Marie, used to

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ask me go fill in.
Q And when did that start?
A I don't remember.
Q Shortly after you were hired?
A No. It was a while after.
Q Okay. And how many times would you go upstairs?
A Per week? Probably once or twice, different days.
Q And you know if any, besides yourself, any other
employees at Park Health that have become pregnant?
A Yes.
Q And can you mention one?
A Yes. Fabiola.
Q And how did you learn that she was pregnant?
A Well, I was working with Fabiola at the time.
Q And how did you learn?
A I was downstairs working with Fabiola. She told me that
she was having a baby.
Q Okay. And did anybody else know about that?
A Yes. She was so happy, she let everyone know, all the
staff.
Q And then what happened after that with Fabiola?
A Well, she was there, she still do her duties. She went
out, she had her baby, come back.
Q That was around when?
A I don't remember.

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Q A while ago?
A It was a long time ago.
Q Did Ann Marie know about that?
A Yes.
Q And how do you know if Ann Marie know?
A Well, we were all working downstairs at the time. We
were close, yes.
Q Anybody else was pregnant while you were working at Park
Health Center?
A Jackie was pregnant. Shereen was pregnant.
Q Well, how did you learn that Shereen was pregnant?
A Well, I was still working downstairs at the time.
Q And that was a while ago also?
A That was a while ago also.
Q Did Shereen go out for a while because of her pregnancy?
A Well, Shereen eventually lost the baby, so she was out
six weeks.
Q And what happened after that?
A She came back to work, she was working. She was fine.
Q Anybody else besides Shereen?
A Veronika was there. She was pregnant.
Q And did you know about that?
A Yes.
Q And how did you learn that Veronika was pregnant?
A Well, Veronika was there, when she did the test, she did

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told me that she was pregnant, because I was working at the
front desk, I think.
Q Front desk of what department?
A Physical therapy department.
Q And what kind of test are we talking about?
A The pregnancy test.
Q She did it at work?
A Yes.
Q And has she told you that it was positive?
A Yes.
Q And what happened with -- I'm sorry. What happened with
Veronika after that?
A Well, she was there, she was working. Then I think I was
pregnant at the time, I went out to have my baby and there
were some there. So I think that's when I came back, that's
when she went out to have her baby.
I don't remember exactly, but I think she went out
and then I came back. I don't remember.
Q And when you came back, where were you assigned to work?
A Well, I was assigned two days because they had hired
Crystal to take over my position. So at the time they didn't
had the opening for me to come back full-time, but they did
take me the Friday and Saturday until they could find
someplace for me. But I think at the time Veronika was going
out to have her baby so she placed me in Veronika's position.

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Q And did your hours change when you did that?
A Did the hours change when I take Veronika's position?
Yes.
Q What did your hours change to?
A I was doing 40 hours a week.
Q And when you took over Veronika's position, how long had
you been back from your pregnancy?
A That I don't remember. I don't remember.
Q And you don't remember if you came back before Veronika
left or after?
A No, I don't remember if I saw her before she left. I
don't remember.
Q But you came back from your pregnancy around the same
time that she left?
A Yes, she went out -- well, no, I was doing the two days
before she went out, and that's when I was told that I'll be
taking Veronika's position.
So I was doing two days maybe for a couple of months
that I know of.
Q And that was your second pregnancy?
A Yes.
Q What happened the first time?
A I lost the baby, the first pregnancy.
Q And you were working at Park at the time?
A Yes.

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Q Did you give anybody notice that you have to be out for
the first pregnancy?
A Yes.
Q And who did you contact?
A Well, Miss Ann Marie was there, so I was at work when I
start bleeding and then she asked me to go to the hospital,
which I did.
Q Did you see Ann Marie after that?
A Well, I was out for a day, I think, and then I came to
work the following day.
Q So you were not out for a long period of time?
A No, no.
Q And what about Veronika?
A Yes.
Q Was she also pregnant?
A She was --
Q I'm sorry. Jackie?
A Jackie was pregnant after I came back to work, after my
son.
Q And how did you learn that she was pregnant?
A She told me.
Q And did other people know at Park?
A Yes.
Q What happened with Jackie after that?
A Well, Jackie said she was still working, but then I think

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she was high risk, so she was in. She was out for a long
time, in and out of the hospital.
So after she gave birth to the baby, she came back
to work. She is still there.
Q Jackie, did you ever have any conversations with Jackie
as to whether she was coming back to work or not coming back
to work?
A Well, actually, we did because we had new -- well,
Dr. Cohen is now working with us, and he didn't know who
Jackie was, so he did find out about if she could come in to
do an interview so he, because she was ready to come back.
So I did spoke to her about it and she did. She
come back in and spoke to him, and she started working again.
Q What about Veronika, did you have any conversations with
her after she was out from Park?
A No.
Q Did Veronika contact you to ask if you had been
terminated?
A No.
Q Did she contact you about the lawsuit that she had
brought against Park?
A No.
Q And did you ever tell Veronica that you had been
terminated by Park?
A No.

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Mahearwanlal - cross - Bush
285
Q And did you ever tell Shirlie that you had been
terminated?
A No.
Q And from 2009 to today, are you still in that same job?
A Yes.
Q How many hours a week do you work?
A Forty hours.
Ms. Bush, any questions?
CROSS EXAMINATION
Q Good afternoon.
A Good afternoon.
Q What month did you begin working for Park?
A 2006.
Q What month was that?
A October.
Q Sorry. Can you speak into the microphone?
A October. October.
Q Who was employed in the physical therapy department in
October 2006?
A No.
Q Who was?
A I was, occupied, I was --

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THE COURT: She is asking you if you know who was
employed in the physical therapy department at that time when
you came on.
A I used to see Jackie, Veronika, Stephanie and the
therapist named Ian. But like knowing them personally, no.
Q And when you were first employed at Park, it was as a
medical assistant, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you were interviewed by Ms. Garriques, is that
correct?
A Miss Ann Marie.
Q Miss Ann Marie?
A Yes. And Dr. Abraham.
Q Have you held other positions at Park?
A At that time, no.
Q Since that time?
A Yes.
Q What positions?
A I'm doing the front desk now.
Q Did you ever work in the physical therapy department?
A Yes.
Q What were your duties in the physical therapy department?
A Well, I was doing the front desk and then I was doing the
aide for a short period of time.
Q What date did you start working at Park in 2008?

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A I don't know.
Q Approximately?
A You mean four years, five years?
Q 2010, 2009.
A Or it's '09? I don't remember.
THE COURT: Is it before or after you had your baby?
THE WITNESS: Before.
Q Are you a certified physical therapy aide?
A No.
Q Do you have any licenses as a physical therapist aide?
A No.
Q Veronika trained you how to do the physical therapy aid
job, isn't that correct?
A No.
Q Who trained you?
A Ian.
Q Did Veronika train you in the range of motion machines?
A Yes.
Q When did Veronika train you in the range of motion
machines? When was that?
A That was when I started working in the physical therapy
department. I don't remember the exact time.
Q 2009, before you were pregnant?
A It could be. Before.
Q You became pregnant for the second time in

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September 2008, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And at that time you're working as a receptionist?
A Yes.
Q Did you give notice of taking maternity leave to your
employers?
A Yes.
Q You gave written notice?
A No.
Q No?
A No.
Q You didn't give written notice of your intentions to take
maternity leave?
A No, I don't remember.
Q Would anything refresh your recollection?
A Please.
Q Debra?
[!EZ SPEAKER 02]: I'd like to go back to what was
in evidence Plaintiff's Exhibit 1.
THE COURT: Is that already in?
MS. BUSH: Yes. I think it's already in.
THE COURT: Yes, it's in.
MS. BUSH: Can I show it to the jury.
(Pause.)

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Q Do you recognize this letter?
A Yes, yes.
Q Yes? Can you tell me what it is?
A It's a letter I signed that I'm going out for maternity
leave.
Q Do you remember writing this?
A I don't remember.
Q No?
A Maybe I did. It's been such a long time. I don't know.
Q Did you write this letter?
A I signed it.
Q Did you write it?
A No. Well, how would they get it? I'm sure I did. I
don't remember.
THE COURT: Do not guess.
A I don't know. I don't know.
Q The letter is dated March the 10th, 2009, and it says,
attention Sheila Ramasre, payroll manager.
Dear Sheila, this is to inform you I will be on
maternity leave from 6/12/09 to 7/31/09. I will return to
work on 8/3/2009.
Sincerely Debra Mahearwanlal. Sorry if I
mispronounce that.
A That's okay.

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Q Cc, Dr. Abraham and Ann Marie.
Did you write this letter?
A I don't remember.
Q Did you give this letter to Sheila?
A I suppose.
THE COURT: Do not guess.
A I don't remember.
Q Did you give the letter to Dr. Abraham?
A I don't remember.
Q Did you give this letter to Ann Marie? No?
A I don't remember it.
Q The letter states that you wanted to return August
the 3rd, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q When did you go out on maternity leave, your second
pregnancy?
A When did I go?
Q Yes.
A I think I went out in July. I went out earlier.
Q What was the date your baby was born?
A June 17, 2009.
Q Sorry. You went out on pregnancy leave in July?
A No, I think it was before. It was at least three months
before. I'm sorry.
Q You went out --

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A Because I was, my doctor wanted me to be on bedrest
because I was at high risk.
Q So what date did you go out, do you remember?
A I don't remember.
A If I have anything, I don't remember.
Q If I told you that you testified at deposition that you
went out on May the 8th, 2009, does that refresh your
recollection?
A Maybe. Maybe. That's -- I don't remember.
Q Do you want to see your testimony?
A Sure.
Q Do you remember being deposed at Mr. Forman's office?
A Yes.
Q September the 16th, 2011. Do you remember that?
A Yes, yes.
Q Do you remember you were under oath?
A Yes.
Q To tell the truth?
A Yes.
Q Page 29. Do you remember being asked this question and
giving this answer. Sorry. It's page 28, line 25.
Question: So what date did you finish work before
you had the baby?
Answer: It was May, May the 8th, I think.

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Do you remember?
A It's about that. I don't remember exactly.
Q Do you remember when you returned to work from your
pregnancy leave?
A Not exactly. August, September, I don't remember.
Q In your letter, you told, you gave notice that you were
going return August the 3rd, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you return August the 3rd?
A I don't remember. I don't remember exactly.
Q Would anything refresh your recollection of when you
returned?
A Sure.
Q Okay. Okay. This is again your deposition, page 29,
line 16.
Question: What date did you return to work?
Answer: August, I think it was September the 7th.
Do you remember being asked that question and giving
that answer?
A Yes.
Q So you returned to work on August, on September the 7th,
is that correct?
A Yes.
Q But you were supposed to return to work on August
the 3rd?

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A Yes.
Q So you returned a month later, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Why did you return to work a month later?
A Because they didn't have a position for me because they
had hired Crystal to cover my position.
Q So you had no job to go back to, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q They gave your hours to Crystal, is that correct?
A That's correct, because they had to find somebody to
cover me while I was out.
Q Do you remember coming into Park when you were out on
maternity leave?
A Yes, I did.
Q Do you remember speaking to Jackie?
Q Do you remember speaking to Veronika?
A Maybe I did. I don't remember.
Q Do you remember telling Jackie and Veronika that Park had
fired you because you were on maternity leave?
A But they didn't fire me.
Q Do you remember telling Jackie and Veronika that?
A No, no.

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Q Do you remember speaking to Crystal while you were out
for maternity leave?
A No.
Q Crystal Kahn, Crystal Allison as she was then?
A I don't remember.
Q No?
Do you remember telling Crystal that Park didn't
want to take you back?
A No.
Q No?
Do you remember telling Crystal that your husband
was going to hire a lawyer and sue Park for wrongful
termination?
A No, my husband would never do that.
Q Do you remember telling Crystal that?
A No, no.
Q So when you returned to work on September the 7th, what
duties were you doing?
A I was at the front desk.
Q Any other duties?
A No.
Q You were covering for Veronika because she was out on
maternity leave, isn't that correct?
A Yes.
Q So you were covering for Veronika duties as a physical

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therapy aide?
A Yes.
Q So you were also doing physical therapy work, is that
correct?
A I was covering the front desk while Veronika was there.
Q So when Veronika went out --
A Yes, that's when I went back to the physical therapy.
Q So when Veronika went out on maternity leave, you covered
her duties as a physical therapist, isn't that correct?
A Aide.
Q A physical therapy aide?
A Yes, yes.
Q Did you expect Veronika to return from maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q Did there come a point when you were told that she wasn't
going to be returning?
A Well, I didn't -- they didn't tell me directly.
Q Who didn't tell you directly?
A No one said that directly to me.
Q So how did you find out that Veronika wasn't returning?
A Well, we heard that Veronika wasn't coming back.
Q Who told you?
A Well, everyone talks in the office and they said Veronika
wasn't going to come back out, and I don't remember exactly.
Q Did Anne Marie tell you that Veronika would be returning?

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A I don't remember. I don't remember if Miss Ann Marie
did.
A I don't remember.
Q No?
So let's turn to your deposition, page 33, line 22.
Do you remember me asking this question and you
giving these answers.
Question: Did there come a point when you were told
that Veronika wasn't going to return?
Answer: Yes.
Question: Who told you that?
Answer: The manager.
Question: Ann Marie?
Answer: Yes.
Question: What did she say?
Answer: She said that I would be in the back for a
while because Veronika would no longer to be there.
Question: Did she say why Veronika was not
returning?
Answer: No.
Question: But you were already covering Veronika's
duty at that point anyway?
Answer: Yes.
Question: Crystal was covering your duties as a

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receptionist, correct?
Answer: Yes.
Question: So at this point do you consider yourself
a receptionist or a PT aide?
THE WITNESS: Well, I was doing the PT aide.
Question: So you began a full time PT aide from
September 2009?
Answer: Yes.
Do you remember that?
A Yes.
Q So Miss Ann Marie told you that Veronika wasn't coming
back?
A Yes.
Q And it's correct that you took over for Veronika's
position when she didn't return from maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q So when you took over Veronika's position in
September 2009, how many hours a week were you working?
A Forty hours.
Q Was that ever reduced?
A Well, at one point they were downsizing, but, yes, my
hours were cut, I think it was cut one day. But it wasn't
just me, everybody in the department.
Then in about a week, about maybe a month, I don't
remember exactly, but I did get back my 40 hours.

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Q So is your testimony that for one month after the first
of the year 2009, your hours were cut for a month?
A About, yes.
Q And then they would be reinstated?
A Yes.
Q Forty hours a week?
A Yes.
Q And what hours do you work today, so to speak?
A Forty.
Q Did Veronika ever tell you she was fired by Park?
A Well, I haven't spoke to Veronika since.
Q Did she ever tell you she was fired by Park?
A No.
Q And when you replaced Veronika after she was fired in
December 2009, were you pregnant?
THE COURT: Sustained.
Q When did you replace Veronika as a PT aide?
MS. BUSH: Can I have that read back, please?
THE COURT: We are on a new question.
You may continue.
Q What date did you replace Veronika as a physical therapy
aide?
A I don't remember the year exactly.
Q Approximately?

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A September, October. I don't remember.
Q When was Veronika supposed to return from maternity
leave?
A That I don't know.
Q So were you pregnant in September 2009?
A I'm sorry. What?
Q Were you pregnant in September 2009?
A No.
Q Were you pregnant in December 2009?
A No.
Q How long was Veronika on maternity leave, do you know?
A I don't know.
Q Approximately?
A I don't know.
MS. BUSH: One second.
(Pause.)
Q Were you surprised that Veronika didn't return to work
after her maternity leave?
A I don't know. Not. For me, I don't care. I was there
doing my job. I don't --
Q Well, you were taking over her job, hadn't you?
A Yes.
MS. BUSH: Okay. No further questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: Thank you, Ms. Bush.
Any redirect, Mr. Forman?

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Mahearwanlal - redirect - Forman
300
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
Just one question.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Can you tell us again when did you give birth the second
time, when did you give birth to your son?
A June 17, 2009.
MR. FORMAN: Thank you.
THE COURT: You are excused.
Thank you, Debra.
THE WITNESS: Do I give this back or leave that?
THE COURT: Just leave that there. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we
have reached the point where we can take a brief afternoon
break before we start another witness.
The same rules apply. You are going to be allowed
to go back to the jury room. Do not discuss the case amongst
yourselves or anyone else, and continue to keep an open mind.
We will start with another witness.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: I assume you have another witness?
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: I cannot promise we will get to both of
them.

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MR. FORMAN: Sheila Ramasre.
THE COURT: Sheila is going to go first?
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. See you in about 10 or 15.
(Recess taken.)
THE CLERK: All parties are present.
THE COURT: Ready to go, Mr. Forman?
MR. FORMAN: Yes.
(Jury enters.)
THE COURT: Be seated.
Counsel stipulate that the jury is present and
properly seated?
[!EZ SPEAKER 02]: Plaintiff stipulates.
MR. FORMAN: And defendant stipulates.
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome. I hope
you had a chance to refresh. We are still on the defendants's
case. Mr. Forman has another witness.
MR. FORMAN: She is Sheila Ramasre. Step up to the
witness box.
(Witness sworn.)
THE CLERK: Please state your first and last name
and spell it for the record.
THE WITNESS: S-H-E-I-L-A, R-A-M-A-S-R-E.

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Ramasre - direct - Forman
302
THE CLERK: Thank you. Have a seat.
SHEILA RAMASRE ,
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Ms. Ramasre, where do you live? Where do you reside?
A Do I need to stand? I live at 1662 Sherbourne Road,
Valley Stream, New York, 11580.
Q And who are you employed by?
A Park -- South Queens Medical Group.
Q And before that, was that the Park Health Center, Park
Management Systems?
A Yes.
Q And for how long have you been employed there at that
business?
A Thirty years.
Q And what's your job duties? Your job title?
A I'm the bookkeeper.
Q And for how long have you held that position with Park?
A Thirty years.
Q And what are your duties as the bookkeeper?
A I do the mail partially, deposits of the checks, the

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payroll, sometimes credentialing for the doctors.
Q While you've been there, have any medical assistants or
physical therapy aides become pregnant?
A Yes.
Q And can you mention some names?
A Debra, Jackie, and Veronika.
Q How about a woman named Shereen?
A Yes.
Q And Fabiola?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall any parties being held at Park Health
Center for any of the women who became pregnant?
A Actually, their departments may hold a little party for
them, but not the whole office, according to my memory.
Q Okay. Are there ever any collections taken up for the
women as gifts?
A Sometimes, yes.
Q Have you ever heard anybody, either Dr. Abraham or Ann
Marie, saying anything negative about the women becoming
pregnant?
A No.
Q Is there a policy at Park as far as taking maternity
leave?
A There is no policy, but a lot of people took maternity
leave.

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Q Is there a specific time that a person is, can take? Is
there a limit on the time that they can take for maternity
leave that you know of?
A No, there was no time limit.
Q Do you recall ever, either Dr. Abraham or Ann Marie,
notifying an employee that they must come back to work, that
they're spending too much time on maternity leave?
A No.
Q Do you know, ever recall a time when either Dr. Abraham
or Ann Marie refused a request for maternity leave saying that
we need you?
A No.
Q And you can't take off all that time?
A No.
Q Do you recall a time when Debra took maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q Can I show you a document that's been marked as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 1? I think it's on your desk in front of
you. If you look at the papers, it will be the one dated
March 10, 2009, on the top and in the lower left, lower
right-hand corner it says PL Exhibit 1.
Do you see that document?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Can you tell us, can you look at it and tell us
what it is?

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A Well, they all give me notices when they're going to take
a vacation or maternity leave or sick leave or something, they
all give me letters.
Q And this is signed by Debra. It's dated March 10, 2009?
A Yes.
Q And do you know who prepared this letter?
A No, I don't.
Q Okay. It says at the top, attention Sheila Ramasre, it
says to your attention?
A Yes.
Q And do you recall if you got this letter?
A Pardon me?
Q Do you recall if you received this letter while you were
at work?
A Probably, yes, but I don't remember right now.
Q Okay. When you do get a letter saying that one of the
employees will be on maternity leave, what do you do?
A I'm supposed to put it in their folder, but sometimes I
do miss it.
Q And are the dates, for example on this letter, the date
says that Debra is saying she'll be out on maternity June 12,
2009, through July 31, 2009. And do you do anything with
those dates when you get a letter like this?
A What we do is the department is supposed to keep track of
the dates so that they can have coverage.

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Q And how will the department do that?
A They have it in their calendar and they will say to Ann
Marie if she has somebody to fill in or something like that.
Q Can you take a look at a document this has been marked
Plaintiff's Exhibit 2. That should also be there on the lower
right-hand corner, and at the top it's dated July 30th, '09,
7/30/09.
Do you see that document?
A There is two letters here. I don't know which one you're
talking about.
Q At the lower right-hand corner. It will say Plaintiff's
Exhibit 2. EX-2, lower right-hand corner.
A I see 9. Oh, here. Yes.
Q Okay. And at the top on the, it says July 30, 2009?
A Yes.
Q And do you see your name there?
A Yes, I did.
Q Is that your handwriting?
A Yes.
Q And do you see a signature above your name?
A Yes.
Q And do you know whose signature that is?
A Yes.
Q Who is that?
A Ann Marie.

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Q Okay. And you signed the document also?
A As a witness, yes.
Q Okay. And it says Debra was informed that she will be
working Fridays and Saturdays to start since the office is
slowing down?
A Yes.
Q Do you recall getting this letter from Ann Marie?
A Yes.
Q And what did you do with it?
A Again, I don't know if I put it in her folder or I have
one folder where I have all the employees's letters that they
give me for vacation or sick leave.
Q Do you recall whether during this time, July 30th, '09,
Debra was on maternity?
A I don't know the dates, but I know she was on maternity
leave. I don't remember the dates.
Q And do you know when she came back, how many days a week
did she start?
A Either two or three.
Q Do you know why?
A Because it's, the department was slow.
Q And do you have any knowledge if the physical therapy
department was slow around that time that Debra wanted to come
back?
A Yes.

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Q And how do you know?
A Financially. The amount of patients they saw for the
day.
Q Do you know if there was a permanent physical therapist
around that time?
A We always have a permanent therapist so, but sometimes
they don't show up. Then we have to get someone from the
agency and this is how it was.
Q Can you look at what has been marked Plaintiff's
Exhibit 3, you'll also see that on the lower right-hand
corner.
A Yes.
Q At the top, it's August 20th, 2009. And have you seen
this before?
A I don't recall.
Q This is a letter from Veronika to Dr. Abraham where
Veronika says that she will be out from August 27th to
November 23, 2009?
A Yes. I don't recall seeing this before.
Q You don't recall if Dr. Abraham gave this to you?
A No.
Q Do you recall what -- did you keep track of Veronika's
maternity leave either the date that she was going or the date
that she was coming back?
A Not really.

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Q Who would keep track of that for Veronika?
A For what?
Q For Veronika that she was out or coming back?
A Yes. Yes.
Q Who would she track?
A I knew when she was out because she told me she was going
-- actually, she didn't tell me that Veronika, that she was
going on maternity leave, and I knew she was out.
Q Okay. Do you record the dates that she's out and the
dates she's supposed to come back?
A She was out at the end of August and then I receive a
call from her. One day she wanted to speak to Dr. Abraham. I
tried to page him. He was seeing patients downstairs. I
couldn't get him.
The next time she called and she said she wanted to
come back to work and I couldn't get Dr. Abraham again, and I
said, Veronika, it's Thanksgiving. Why don't you take another
two, three days and then Ann Marie will be back, and she said
okay. That was the last I spoke to her.
Q And do you know if Veronika got in touch with anybody at
Park after that?
A I, yes, one day, I can't remember if she called or Ann
Marie called her, and from my phone and Ann Marie told her,
Veronika, it's a little slow now and why don't you take some
more times, some, not my, her exact words, but this is what I

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can remember, and she said why don't you call us back in a few
weeks. And I can't remember what Veronika said. And Ann
Marie said she's writing it down, what she told her.
Q And did you hear from Veronika after that?
A No.
Q Do you know if Veronika tried to call the Park Health
Center after that?
A I don't know but she didn't talk to me after that.
Q Do you know if anybody else at Park Health Center spoke
to her after that?
A No.
Q Can you look at what's marked Exhibit J? That should
also be on the table, with a big sticker that says Exhibit J
on it.
A Yes.
Q Okay. That's the rejection of disability benefits. It
says the claimant is Veronika and it says payments will be
rejected after October 22, 2009, the date you could return to
work, according to medical evidence.
Have you seen that document before?
A I have a vague knowledge that I helped her to fill out
her disability form on the same day when she was leaving. I'm
not sure if this is, so, but I have a faint knowledge that she
asked me to fill it and I did.
Q Okay. And this document appears to be rejecting any

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disability payments after October 22nd.
A I have never seen or heard that she was rejected.
Q No, it says that she will be paid, it says, from
September 4th to October 21, but not after October 21.
Do you see that in the middle right, the last, in
the middle, the benefits were paid from September 4th to
October 21?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you recall seeing this document?
A This? No.
Q Do you get forms like this in your office?
A Yes.
Q And what do you do with them?
A If it's required being answered, I would answer it and
mail it back.
Q And do you recall, if you recall Jackie being pregnant
while she was working at Park?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And do you recall Jackie applying for unemployment
benefits?
A No. She had applied for disability.
Q And what happened with that application?
A Because she took -- Jackie was very sick and she took a
long time before she applied. It was, there's a time limit.
I think it's 90 days, and that time limit was passed. So she

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was unable to get it.
I tried to help her through workers' compensation
and I don't know what happened from there, but Jackie came
back to work and she didn't follow up.
Q Did Park Health dispute her entitlement to disability
benefits?
A No.
Q Did Park Health reject her disability benefits?
A No, no.
Q And you don't recall whether she received unemployment or
not?
A I don't think Jackie applied for unemployment.
Q Do you recall Park Health disputing Jackie's application
for unemployment insurance?
A No.
Q Never, you never sent any forms to unemployment --
A No.
Q -- disputing her application?
A No.
Ms. Bush, any questions?
MS. BUSH: Yes.

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Ramasre - cross - Bush
313
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Good afternoon.
A Good afternoon.
Q You were shown Plaintiff's Exhibit 3. Have you got it
there?
A Yes.
Q It's a letter from Veronika Chauca dated August the 20th,
2009, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember Veronika giving this to you?
A I don't. I don't remember.
Q Anything that would refresh your recollection?
A No.
Q Veronika Chauca went out on maternity leave, is that
correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember the dates?
A It was at the end of August, or it says here August 27th.
Sounds correct.
Q What is your recollection of when she went out on
maternity leave?
THE COURT: If you have one.
A I remember the day when she spoke with Dr. Abraham.
Q Okay.

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A And I don't remember if that was her last day or another
two days before she left.
Q How did you know she spoke with Dr. A?
A Because there was, Dr. A's private office is just near to
mine and, I don't know if she ask him to go in that room for
privacy, or he asked her, but they spoke in there without me
being present.
Q Okay. Do you remember -- sorry.
Do you remember when she returned from maternity
leave?
A She didn't return.
Q Do you know why she didn't return?
A Why? As I said, she called me twice. The first time I
was trying to reach Dr. Abraham, I could not. The second
time, I couldn't either reach him and then I said to her,
Veronika, it's Thanksgiving, wait another few days. Ann Marie
is in California, she will be back and you will speak to her,
because I am not the one who hire and fire.
Q And why did you say that to her?
A I didn't say that to her. I'm telling you now.
Q Did you say to her I'm not the one who hires and fires?
A No, no, no. I'm telling you. I couldn't say anything to
her. I couldn't give her an answer whether, what date she
should come back. So I said wait for Ann Marie.
Q Was Veronika fired?

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A No.
Q How did you know?
A Because when she called or Ann Marie called her, this, I
don't remember who called, but Ann Marie sat and used my phone
and she spoke with Veronika and said, right now, it's a little
slow. Why don't you take another few days, weeks, something
like that, and we will call you and you call us.
Q And Veronika's hours were eliminated, is that correct?
A I don't know.
Q She had no hours at work? No hours?
A I don't -- I'm not -- I don't know about her hours. I
just do the payroll.
Q Did you expect Veronika to return from maternity leave?
A Yes.
Q And when were you told she wasn't going to return?
A Nobody told me, but from the letter, from what she was
telling me on Thanksgiving week, that's when she was supposed
to come back.
Q Did anybody tell you she wasn't going to return?
A No.
Q How did you find out that she wasn't going to return?
A After a very long time. Ann Marie asked me if she called
me and I said no. And she said she was trying to reach her
and she couldn't reach her.
Q So you can't testify what --

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A Pardon me?
[!EZ SPEAKER 02]: Strike that.
Q Did Veronika receive a salary for her job?
A When?
Q When she was employed at Park.
A When you say salary, what do you mean?
Q I mean a regular pay slip?
A Yes.
Q The regular amount of money?
A Yes.
Q Did she ever receive a separate check for the work she
was doing?
A I don't know about that. Not from me.
Q You did do the payroll, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q So if she had received an extra check, would you know
about it?
A No. I just responsible for the payroll.
Q But if she received an extra check from Park, would you
know about it?
A No.
Q Why not?
A Because it's not a part of the payroll.
Q Did there come a time when Jackie went out on maternity
leave?

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A Yes.
Q Do you remember when that was?
A I did not, I'm not very good at dates.
Q Did Jackie apply for disability?
A Yes.
Q Did you help her with those papers?
A Yes.
Q And why were they rejected?
A Because it was past 90 days.
Q Past 90 days?
A Yes.
Q And how long was Jackie out of work from Park for?
A I don't -- I didn't keep track. I don't know.
Q Approximately? Six months? A year?
A Not a year, but it was, it was more than six weeks as
normal women will take because Jackie was very sick.
Q Do you know whether Jackie submitted a claim for
unemployment?
A No. She did not claim for unemployment.
Q Didn't claim for unemployment?
A No.
Q Are you sure about that?
A I'm sure.
[!EZ SPEAKER 02]: I'd like to refer you to
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, which is premarked. I would like to

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put it into evidence.
THE COURT: It is not in yet, though.
MS. BUSH: Oh, I'd like to put this into evidence,
please.
THE COURT: Are you offering it?
[!EZ SPEAKER 02]: Yes. I'm offering into evidence.
THE COURT: Any objection.
MR. FORMAN: Plaintiff's 8?
THE COURT: Yes.
MS. BUSH: I'll get some copies.
MR. FORMAN: No objection.
(So marked.)
BY MS. BUSH:
Q Can you tell me what this form is?
A This is unemployment.
Q Have you seen this before?
A I don't recall.
Q What's the address on the top right-hand side?
A It says Park Management, but I don't recall this because
Jackie was never fired. So I cannot tell why this came.
Q Okay. You deal with the unemployment?
A Yes.
Q Does anybody else deal with unemployment at Park?
A No.

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Q So if anybody would know about unemployment application,
it would be you, correct?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And are you telling me, is it your testimony that
you've never seen this document before?
A Right now, I don't remember seeing this, because Jackie
was never fired. Why would she have unemployment? I don't
know.
Q Can you just please look at the document?
A Yes.
Q You see -- can you see the date is 11/6/2010?
A I do.
Q Was that when Jackie was out on maternity leave?
A I don't recall the date.
Q Was Jackie at work on 11/25/2010?
A I don't know.
Q What's the name of the claimant on this form?
A Jacqueline Stern.
Q Jacqueline worked at Park, is that correct?
A Pardon me?
Q Jacqueline worked at Park?
A Yes.
Q So what do you understand from reading this document?
A It is an unemployment document.
Q What does it mean to you?

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A Which means she applied for unemployment.
Q Does that refresh your recollection that she applied for
unemployment?
A I still don't recall. Somebody could have helped her
with the form, anybody else, rather than me. I don't know.
Q Somebody else at Park could have helped her with this
form?
A Yes.
Q What does this form tell us, if you can take us through
the form, what's step one?
A It shows every, everything about their wages, every
quarter.
Q Okay.
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, I just want to be sure I'm
looking at the same document. Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 is how
many pages is it, one page?
MS. BUSH: Two pages.
MR. FORMAN: Plaintiff's Exhibit 8? Okay.
MS. BUSH: Oh, no. One page. One page. Sorry.
MR. FORMAN: I have two pages. I do have two pages.
Q Step three?
A You mean line three?
THE COURT: Hold on.
Q It says step one?

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THE COURT: Hold on.
MR. FORMAN: Your Honor, I have two different pages,
both --
A Her weekly.
THE COURT: Hold on.
Why don't you and Ms. Bush take a look at what you
have so you can make sure.
MR. FORMAN: Okay.
MS. BUSH: It's Plaintiff's 8.
MR. FORMAN: I have two pages, both marked 8.
I'll look at this one. I'll cross-examine on the
other one.
Q Does the form you have have boxes, it says step one, step
two?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Step one says claimant verification. Is that
correct? Step one, says claimant verification?
A Yes.
Q And what name is the claimant? What's the name of the
claimant?
A Jacqueline Stern.
Q And when it says workplace, what does that say?
A Same.
Q Step two. Claimant gross wages, what does that say?

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What information does it give us?
A Each quarter.
Q Okay.
A The wage.
Q Step three, employer's potential charges. What
information does that give us?
A 277 per week.
Q What does that mean?
A She was getting 277 per week.
Q From?
A Unemployment.
Q Unemployment. So she did put in a claim for
unemployment, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember Park paying 227.77 a week for Jackie
Stern's unemployment?
A I don't recall any of this. Probably. It is so, but I
don't recall right now. And for how long, I don't know.
Q Did Park ever challenge Jackie Stern's claim for
unemployment?
A No.
Q Who would know?
A I don't recall any of this.
Q Well, who would know? You're the bookkeeper, aren't you?
A Yes.

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Q So who else would know if not you?
MR. FORMAN: Objection, Your Honor. That was not
the answer.
THE COURT: She did not know.
MR. FORMAN: Right.
THE COURT: So the question, as I understand it, is
that if an employee of Park were to file for unemployment
insurance, who at Park, other than this witness, would respond
to that claim?
MS. BUSH: Correct.
A No one.
Q You're the only person in charge of unemployment
insurance applications at Park, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q And you have no recollection of this document?
A No.
Q Okay. So it's true, is it true that Jackie, when she was
out, when she was away from Park in 2010, she did not receive
disability, is that correct?
A According to my memory, yes, she did not receive any.
Q And according to this Plaintiff Exhibit 8, she received
A This is what it says.
THE COURT: Does this form say that she received it
or she applied for it?

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THE WITNESS: I cannot tell whether she received it.
Q Have you seen these kind of forms before?
A Yes.
Q So how can you, how is it that you don't know what the
information means?
A I know what the information means. It means that she
applied, and this is what she's allotted, but I don't know if
she got it for one week, two weeks or how long, that I cannot
tell.
Q Well, who would know. Who would know the information if
not you?
A Maybe Jackie will know.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: Just one second.
(Pause.)
Q Jackie was fired, isn't that correct?
A No.
Q That's why she applied for unemployment.
A No, she was not fired.
Q So why did she file for unemployment?
THE COURT: If you know.
Q If you know.
THE COURT: If you know she applied.
A No.

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325
Q No?
A No.
Q This form is taken from the personnel files of Jackie
Stern at Park. Have you seen this form before today?
A This form?
Q Yes.
A I don't remember.
MR. FORMAN: Objection, objection, Your Honor. I
don't think that's a correct characterization of this
document.
THE COURT: Is it a document produced by you?
MR. FORMAN: No.
MS. BUSH: Yes, it is. It's a document produced by
defendants. Discovery.
MR. FORMAN: This is Plaintiff's Exhibit A.
MS. BUSH: It says the Metro Building on it. That's
your office. You gave me this document. It's from the
personnel files of Jackie Stern.
MR. FORMAN: Usually my documents are stamped.
MS. BUSH: Do you want a side bar?
THE COURT: He thinks it is now. He does not recall
them.
MR. FORMAN: I'm not objecting to the document.
Q Okay. So if I told you this document had come from the

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326
personnel files of Jackie Stern, would you agree?
A I wouldn't say no and I wouldn't say yes. I'm not now.
Q You seem to have no idea whether Ms. Stern applied for
A No.
Q Is it --
A I, I do not know that she did apply for unemployment
because she was not fired.
Q I don't understand.
THE COURT: She said she does not know.
MS. BUSH: She doesn't know.
THE COURT: The personnel files are within your
jurisdiction? You maintain those files?
THE WITNESS: I have them but anyone can go and look
into them. They're not under lock and key.
THE COURT: Is there anyone else who works with you
on the personnel files?
THE WITNESS: No. But everybody has access to my
area.
Q If Jackie had been fired, would she have been able to
have a successful claim for unemployment?
A If she were fired, yes.
Q Isn't it the case that this document is telling you that
Jackie does have a successful claim for unemployment?

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Ramasre - redirect - Forman
327
A Like I said before, I don't know how this was generated,
who did it and what happened.
Q Okay.
MS. BUSH: No more questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: Mr. Forman, any redirect?
MR. FORMAN: I'd like to show the witness the second
page. This document on the top.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. FORMAN:
Q Do you see where it says part one of two on Exhibit 8?
THE COURT: The exhibit in front of you.
A Yes.
Q And let me show you something that says part two of two
and ask if you've seen that document.
MS. BUSH: I'd like to ask if the plaintiff has it.
I don't have a copy.
THE COURT: It is your exhibit, it is your document.
MS. BUSH: It's marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 8. I
guess it's the second page of the same document.
A It's all blank.
MS. BUSH: I do have part two.
MR. FORMAN: I'd like to have this admitted into
evidence also as the same exhibit.
THE COURT: You can mark it as, since they are not
attached, you can mark that as 8A, Plaintiff's 8A.

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Ramasre - redirect - Forman
328
Q Okay, looking at 8A, have you seen this document before?
A This particular document?
Q No, a document like that?
A Yes.
Q And what's that for?
A Unemployment.
Q Okay. And what does part two, this second page, if
anything? What are you supposed to do with this second page?
A Fill it, sign it, send it back.
Q And looking at this document, does it indicate that it
was signed --
A No.
Q -- by Park?
Does it indicate that it was filled out by Park?
A No.
Q So you don't know whether it was sent back or not?
A No.
Q Does Park have any --
THE COURT: Let me ask for clarification. And if
that second page is not filled out, signed and sent back, what
happens to the unemployment insurance claim?
THE WITNESS: Well, we will have to reject it.
Q If a person -- do you know whether a person needs
anything from Park before they can apply for unemployment
insurance? If an employee is let go or laid off or leaves, do

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Side Bar
329
they need anything from Park in order to apply for
unemployment insurance?
A All they need is their pay stub.
Q Nothing else, nothing other than that last pay stub?
A No.
Q Did you contest, to your recollection, Jacqueline Stern's
unemployment application?
A Like I said, I don't recall any of this. I was helping
Jackie to get her disability because she was in a very
delicate situation where she had no money, no food, no -- we
used to pick up collections for her. This is how bad her
situation was.
So I tried to help her to get disability benefits
and she did not follow up. It was over three months and it
was denied by the State.
THE COURT: Any followup, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: No.
THE COURT: You're excused.
(Witness excused.)
THE COURT: Let me meet with counsel briefly at side
bar.

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Side Bar
330
(The following occurred at side bar.)
THE COURT: This is just scheduling. We have got
about ten minutes. I do not know who is next and how long you
think you have with that person.
MR. FORMAN: I have one witness. She can return
tomorrow.
THE COURT: It will take longer than that?
MR. FORMAN: Ten minutes? Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. Then that is what we will do.
MR. FORMAN: Okay.
(Side bar ends.)
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I have
met with counsel to see where, how our scheduling is going and
we cannot really productively start the next witness. So
rather than starting and stopping and coming back tomorrow and
picking up and then going forward again, it is just easier to
start fresh tomorrow and in the long run, we will save time.
So we will, that will bring us to the close of
today's proceedings. I will give you the same admonitions
that you received at the close of proceedings every day and
that is to, when you leave on this recess, please enjoy a
wonderful evening, but do not discuss the case amongst
yourselves or with anyone else. Do not use the recess
opportunity as an opportunity to do any research
electronically or otherwise about anything that touches upon

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331
this case.
Should there be any commentary about this case in
the media, I direct you to disregard it. I urge you to
disregard any media accounts of any legal proceeding for fear
that you may get misinformation with respect to what this
proceeding is all about. Of course since the case is not
finished and has not been given to you for your final
deliberations, you are to continue to keep an open mind, and
if you are on social media, you are still on radio silence.
So that there will be no references made to anything what is
going on here or the fact that you here, the fact that you are
a juror, the fact that you are doing anything with respect to
this case or anything in this courthouse.
With all of those admonitions, we wish you a
pleasant evening. I think the rain is holding off, so you
might be able to get home dry.
William will tell you where you have to go tomorrow,
but get there around quarter of 10:00 and we'll start as close
to that as we can.
Thank you again, all of you, for your patience and
your cooperation.
(Jury exits.)
THE COURT: Okay. So as far as I understand the
plan, we have one more witness for you, tomorrow, Art?
MR. FORMAN: Yes. Maybe an hour.

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MS. BUSH: An hour.
MR. FORMAN: With direct and cross, probably an
hour.
THE COURT: Any rebuttal case at all, Ms. Bush?
MS. BUSH: Can I tell you tomorrow?
THE COURT: For planning purposes, we would like to
know. We would like to know tonight.
MS. BUSH: I don't think so.
THE COURT: It seems everything has been thoroughly
covered.
MS. BUSH: Yes.
THE COURT: Covered, recovered, covered again. So I
cannot imagine what would be new.
MS. BUSH: I know.
THE COURT: All right. Then we will see you
tomorrow and then we will sort of play it by ear tomorrow
because it puts us in that odd sequence of time.
What we probably will do is give the jury an
extended break and move, after everybody collects their
thoughts, we will have a charge conference. And plan to bring
the jury back in the afternoon for closing arguments.
I cannot imagine, I do not like to give juries cases
late in the day, so we may do closings tomorrow, again,
although this is fluid, depending on how fast we move, but my
thinking now is to give the, to give, to do closings tomorrow

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and probably charge on Thursday, start fresh for deliberations
so there is no 4 o'clock or 5 o'clock hour hanging over the
deliberations, because these charges, unfortunately, take
time.
So even if the closings are moderate, the charge
will just push it to the end, the end, unless we are
remarkably quick tomorrow morning. So that is why I leave it,
I leave it fluid but I think both sides should be prepared to
close tomorrow and we will go from there.
MS. BUSH: Thank you, sir.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. FORMAN: All right.
THE COURT: And then have a pleasant evening and
we'll see you tomorrow.
(Matter adjourned to April 15, 2015 at 10:00 a.m.)

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I N D E X
WITNESS: PAGE:
JAMIL ABRAHAM
DIRECT EXAMINATION 150
CROSS-EXAMINATION 212
ANN MARIE GARRIQUES
DEBRA MAHEARWANLAL
CROSS EXAMINATION 285
REDIRECT EXAMINATION 300
SHEILA RAMASRE
REDIRECT EXAMINATION 327
EXHIBITS
Plaintiff's Exhibit 4 249
plaintiff's Exhibit 1 191
plaintiff's Exhibit 9 196

Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management

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Trail Transcripts Part 2 041315 Chauca v. Park Management