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The Milgram Experiment
by Saul McLeod published 2007
Milgram selected participants for his experiment by newspaper
advertising for male participants to take part in a study of
learning at Yale University. The procedure was that the
participant was paired with another person and they drew lots to
find out who would be the ‘learner’ and who would be the
‘teacher’. The draw was fixed so that the participant was
always the teacher, and the learner was one of Milgram’s
confederates (pretending to be a real participant).
The learner (a confederate called Mr. Wallace) was taken into a
room and had electrodes attached to his arms, and the teacher
and researcher went into a room next door that contained an
electric shock generator and a row of switches marked from 15
volts (Slight Shock) to 375 volts (Danger: Severe Shock) to 450
volts (XXX).
Milgram's Experiment
Procedure:
At the beginning of the experiment, each participant was
introduced to another participant, who was actually a
confederate of the experimenter (Milgram). They drew straws
to determine their roles – learner or teacher – although this was
fixed and the confederate was always the learner. There was
also an “experimenter” dressed in a grey lab coat, played by an
actor (not Milgram).
Two rooms in the Yale Interaction Laboratory were used - one
for the learner (with an electric chair) and another for the
teacher and experimenter with an electric shock generator.
The “learner” (Mr. Wallace) was strapped to a chair with
electrodes. After he has learned a list of word pairs given him to
learn, the "teacher" tests him by naming a word and asking the
learner to recall its partner/pair from a list of four possible
choices.
The teacher is told to administer an electric shock every time
the learner makes a mistake, increasing the level of shock each
time. There were 30 switches on the shock generator marked
from 15 volts (slight shock) to 450 (danger – severe shock).
The learner gave mainly wrong answers (on purpose) and for
each of these the teacher gave him an electric shock. When the
teacher refused to administer a shock the experimenter was to
give a series of orders / prods to ensure they continued. There
were 4 prods and if one was not obeyed then the experimenter
(Mr. Williams) read out the next prod, and so on.
Prod 1: please continue.
Prod 2: the experiment requires you to continue.
Prod 3: It is absolutely essential that you continue.
Prod 4: you have no other choice but to continue.
Results:
65% of all the participants (teachers) continued to the highest
level of 450 volts. All the participants continued to 300 volts.
Milgram did more than one experiment – he carried out 18
variations of his study. All he did was alter the situation (IV)
to see how this affected obedience (DV).
Conclusion:
Ordinary people are likely to follow orders given by an
authority figure, even to the extent of killing an innocent human
being. Obedience to authority is ingrained in us all from the
way we are brought up.
People tend to obey orders from other people if they recognize
their authority as morally right and / or legally based. This
response to legitimate authority is learned in a variety of
situations, for example in the family, school and workplace.
Question/discussion point:
Does Milgram’s experiment lend legitimacy to Griffin’s idea
that the Nazi era and its monsters are “Our Secret” and not
“Their Secret”? How do Milgram’s findings work with or
against Griffin’s statements?
Zimbardo - Stanford Prison Experiment
by Saul McLeod published 2008
Aim: To investigate how readily people would conform to the
roles of guard and prisoner in a role-playing exercise that
simulated prison life.
Zimbardo (1973) was interested in finding out whether the
brutality reported among guards in American prisons was due to
the sadistic personalities of the guards or had more to do with
the prison environment.
Procedure: Zimbardo used a lab experiment to study conformity.
To study the roles people play in prison situations, Zimbardo
converted a basement of the Stanford University psychology
building into a mock prison. He advertised for students to play
the roles of prisoners and guards for a fortnight. 21 male
college students (chosen from 75 volunteers) were screened for
psychological normality and paid $15 per day to take part in the
experiment.
Participants were randomly assigned to either the role of
prisoner or guard in a simulated prison environment. The prison
simulation was kept as “real life” as possible. Prisoners were
arrested at their own homes, without warning, and taken to the
local police station.
Guards were also issued a khaki uniform, together with
whistles, handcuffs and dark glasses, to make eye contact with
prisoners impossible. No physical violence was permitted.
Zimbardo observed the behavior of the prisoners and guards.
Here they were treated like every other criminal. They were
fingerprinted, photographed and ‘booked’. Then they were
blindfolded and driven to the psychology department of
Stanford University, where Zimbardo had had the basement set
out as a prison, with barred doors and windows, bare walls and
small cells. Here the deindividuation process began.
When the prisoners arrived at the prison they were stripped
naked, deloused, had all their personal possessions removed and
locked away, and were given prison clothes and bedding. They
were issued a uniform, and referred to by their number only.
Their clothes comprised a smock with their number written on
it, but no underclothes. They also had a tight nylon cap, and a
chain around one ankle.
There were 3 guards to the 9 prisoners, taking shifts of eight
hours each (the other guards remained on call)
Findings: Within a very short time both guards and prisoners
were settling into their new roles, the guards adopting theirs
quickly and easily.
Within hours of beginning the experiment some guards began to
harass prisoners. They behaved in a brutal and sadistic manner,
apparently enjoying it. Other guards joined in, and other
prisoners were also tormented.
The prisoners were taunted with insults and petty orders, they
were given pointless and boring tasks to accomplish, and they
were generally dehumanized.
The prisoners soon adopted prisoner-like behavior too. They
talked about prison issues a great deal of the time. They ‘told
tales’ on each other to the guards. They started taking the prison
rules very seriously, as though they were there for the
prisoners’ benefit and infringement would spell disaster for all
of them. Some even began siding with the guards against
prisoners who did not conform to the rules.
Over the next few days the relationships between the guards and
the prisoners changed, with a change in one leading to a change
in the other. Remember that the guards were firmly in control
and the prisoners were totally dependent on them.
As the prisoners became more dependent, the guards became
more derisive towards them. They held the prisoners in
contempt and let the prisoners know it. As the guards’ contempt
for them grew, the prisoners became more submissive.
As the prisoners became more submissive, the guards became
more aggressive and assertive. They demanded ever greater
obedience from the prisoners. The prisoners were dependent on
the guards for everything so tried to find ways to please the
guards, such as telling tales on fellow prisoners.
One prisoner had to be released after 36 hours because of
uncontrollable bursts of screaming, crying and anger. His
thinking became disorganized and he appeared to be entering
the early stages of a deep depression. Within the next few days
three others also had to leave after showing signs of emotional
disorder that could have had lasting consequences. (These were
people who had been pronounced stable and normal a short
while before.)
Zimbardo (1973) had intended that the experiment should run
for a fortnight, but on the sixth day he closed it down. There
was real danger that someone might be physically or mentally
damaged if it was allowed to run on. After some time for the
researchers to gather their data the subjects were called back for
a follow-up, debriefing session.
Conclusion: People will readily conform to the social roles they
are expected to play, especially if the roles are as strongly
stereotyped as those of the prison guards. The “prison”
environment was an important factor in creating the guards’
brutal behavior (none of the participants who acted as guards
showed sadistic tendencies before the study). Therefore, the
roles that people play can shape their behavior and attitudes.
Question/discussion point:
How does Zimbardo’s experiment synch or not synch with
Griffin’s theory of how character is formed in humans? What
are the parallels? Are they exact or approximate?
Chinese Cultural Revolution
Between 1966 and 1976, the young people of China rose up in
an effort to purge the nation of the "Four Olds": old customs,
old culture, old habits and old ideas.
In August, 1966, Mao Zedong called for the start of a Cultural
Revolution at the Plenum of the Communist Central Committee.
He urged the creation of corps of "Red Guards" to punish party
officials and any other persons who showed bourgeois
tendencies.
Mao likely was motivated to call for the so-called Great
Proletarian Cultural Revolution in order to rid the Chinese
Communist Party of his opponents after the tragic failure of his
Great Leap Forward policies. Mao knew that other party leaders
were planning to marginalize him, so he appealed directly to his
supporters among the people to join him in a Cultural
Revolution. He also believed that communist revolution had to
be a continuous process, in order to stave off capitalist-roader
ideas.
Mao's call was answered by the students, some as young as
elementary school, who organized themselves into the first
groups of Red Guards. They were joined later by workers and
soldiers.
The first targets of the Red Guards included Buddhist temples,
churches and mosques, which were razed to the ground or
converted to other uses. Sacred texts, as well as Confucian
writings, were burned, along with religious statues and other
artwork. Any object associated with China's pre-revolutionary
past was liable to be destroyed.
In their fervor, the Red Guards began to persecute people
deemed "counter-revolutionary" or "bourgeois," as well. The
Guards conducted so-called "struggle sessions," in which they
heaped abuse and public humiliation upon people accused of
capitalist thoughts (usually these were teachers, monks and
other educated persons). These sessions often included physical
violence, and many of the accused died or ended up being held
in reeducation camps for years. According to the Mao's Last
Revolution by Roderick MacFarquhar and Michael Schoenhals,
almost 1,800 people were killed in Beijing alone in August and
September of 1966.
.
By February, 1967, China had descended into chaos. The purges
had reached the level of army generals who dared to speak out
against the excesses of the Cultural Revolution, and Red Guards
groups were turning against one another and fighting in the
streets. Mao's wife, Jiang Qing, encouraged the Red Guards to
raid arms from the People's Liberation Army (PLA), and even to
replace the army entirely if necessary.
By December of 1968, even Mao realized that the Cultural
Revolution was spinning out of control. China's economy,
already weakened by the Great Leap Forward, was faltering
badly. Industrial production fell by 12% in just two years. In
reaction, Mao issued a call for the "Down to the Countryside
Movement," in which young cadres from the city were sent to
live on farms and learn from the peasants. Although he spun
this idea as a tool for leveling society, in fact Mao sought to
disperse the Red Guards across the country, so that they could
not cause so much trouble anymore.
Question/discussion point:
Look at the role of education in Griffin’s text… what kinds of
education are there? How much similarity is there between
Himmler’s education and the Cultural Revolution? What is
similar and what is not similar… be specific.
Cain and Abel
Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant
and gave birth to Cain.[b]She said, “With the help of the Lord I
have brought forth[c] a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his
brother Abel.
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course
of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an
offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat
portions from some of the firstborn of his
flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his
offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with
favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your
face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be
accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at
your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the
field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother
Abel and killed him.
9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”
“I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?”
10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s
blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a
curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to
receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you
work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You
will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”
13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can
bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be
hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the
earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”
15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills
Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then
the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him
would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s
presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden.
The Expulsion
To the woman he said,
“I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.
Your desire will be for your husband,
and he will rule over you.”
17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate
fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must
not eat from it,’
“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
20 Adam[k] named his wife Eve,[l] because she would become
the mother of all the living.
21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife
and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now
become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be
allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of
life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him
from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had
been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east
side[m] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming
sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of
life.
Question/discussion point:
These are some of the heaviest hitting stories in the Judeo-
Christian-Islamic tradition. Think about what they have to do
with Griffin. Do you think Griffin was influenced by them?
Look for lines in the stories that seem to link well with the
claims that Griffin has made. Be specific.

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The Milgram Experimentby Saul McLeod published 2007Milgram sel.docx

  • 1. The Milgram Experiment by Saul McLeod published 2007 Milgram selected participants for his experiment by newspaper advertising for male participants to take part in a study of learning at Yale University. The procedure was that the participant was paired with another person and they drew lots to find out who would be the ‘learner’ and who would be the ‘teacher’. The draw was fixed so that the participant was always the teacher, and the learner was one of Milgram’s confederates (pretending to be a real participant). The learner (a confederate called Mr. Wallace) was taken into a room and had electrodes attached to his arms, and the teacher and researcher went into a room next door that contained an electric shock generator and a row of switches marked from 15 volts (Slight Shock) to 375 volts (Danger: Severe Shock) to 450 volts (XXX). Milgram's Experiment Procedure: At the beginning of the experiment, each participant was introduced to another participant, who was actually a confederate of the experimenter (Milgram). They drew straws to determine their roles – learner or teacher – although this was fixed and the confederate was always the learner. There was also an “experimenter” dressed in a grey lab coat, played by an actor (not Milgram). Two rooms in the Yale Interaction Laboratory were used - one for the learner (with an electric chair) and another for the teacher and experimenter with an electric shock generator. The “learner” (Mr. Wallace) was strapped to a chair with electrodes. After he has learned a list of word pairs given him to learn, the "teacher" tests him by naming a word and asking the learner to recall its partner/pair from a list of four possible choices.
  • 2. The teacher is told to administer an electric shock every time the learner makes a mistake, increasing the level of shock each time. There were 30 switches on the shock generator marked from 15 volts (slight shock) to 450 (danger – severe shock). The learner gave mainly wrong answers (on purpose) and for each of these the teacher gave him an electric shock. When the teacher refused to administer a shock the experimenter was to give a series of orders / prods to ensure they continued. There were 4 prods and if one was not obeyed then the experimenter (Mr. Williams) read out the next prod, and so on. Prod 1: please continue. Prod 2: the experiment requires you to continue. Prod 3: It is absolutely essential that you continue. Prod 4: you have no other choice but to continue. Results: 65% of all the participants (teachers) continued to the highest level of 450 volts. All the participants continued to 300 volts. Milgram did more than one experiment – he carried out 18 variations of his study. All he did was alter the situation (IV) to see how this affected obedience (DV). Conclusion: Ordinary people are likely to follow orders given by an authority figure, even to the extent of killing an innocent human being. Obedience to authority is ingrained in us all from the way we are brought up. People tend to obey orders from other people if they recognize their authority as morally right and / or legally based. This response to legitimate authority is learned in a variety of situations, for example in the family, school and workplace. Question/discussion point: Does Milgram’s experiment lend legitimacy to Griffin’s idea that the Nazi era and its monsters are “Our Secret” and not “Their Secret”? How do Milgram’s findings work with or
  • 3. against Griffin’s statements? Zimbardo - Stanford Prison Experiment by Saul McLeod published 2008 Aim: To investigate how readily people would conform to the roles of guard and prisoner in a role-playing exercise that simulated prison life. Zimbardo (1973) was interested in finding out whether the brutality reported among guards in American prisons was due to the sadistic personalities of the guards or had more to do with the prison environment. Procedure: Zimbardo used a lab experiment to study conformity. To study the roles people play in prison situations, Zimbardo converted a basement of the Stanford University psychology building into a mock prison. He advertised for students to play the roles of prisoners and guards for a fortnight. 21 male college students (chosen from 75 volunteers) were screened for psychological normality and paid $15 per day to take part in the experiment. Participants were randomly assigned to either the role of prisoner or guard in a simulated prison environment. The prison simulation was kept as “real life” as possible. Prisoners were arrested at their own homes, without warning, and taken to the local police station. Guards were also issued a khaki uniform, together with whistles, handcuffs and dark glasses, to make eye contact with prisoners impossible. No physical violence was permitted. Zimbardo observed the behavior of the prisoners and guards. Here they were treated like every other criminal. They were fingerprinted, photographed and ‘booked’. Then they were blindfolded and driven to the psychology department of Stanford University, where Zimbardo had had the basement set out as a prison, with barred doors and windows, bare walls and small cells. Here the deindividuation process began.
  • 4. When the prisoners arrived at the prison they were stripped naked, deloused, had all their personal possessions removed and locked away, and were given prison clothes and bedding. They were issued a uniform, and referred to by their number only. Their clothes comprised a smock with their number written on it, but no underclothes. They also had a tight nylon cap, and a chain around one ankle. There were 3 guards to the 9 prisoners, taking shifts of eight hours each (the other guards remained on call) Findings: Within a very short time both guards and prisoners were settling into their new roles, the guards adopting theirs quickly and easily. Within hours of beginning the experiment some guards began to harass prisoners. They behaved in a brutal and sadistic manner, apparently enjoying it. Other guards joined in, and other prisoners were also tormented. The prisoners were taunted with insults and petty orders, they were given pointless and boring tasks to accomplish, and they were generally dehumanized. The prisoners soon adopted prisoner-like behavior too. They talked about prison issues a great deal of the time. They ‘told tales’ on each other to the guards. They started taking the prison rules very seriously, as though they were there for the prisoners’ benefit and infringement would spell disaster for all of them. Some even began siding with the guards against prisoners who did not conform to the rules. Over the next few days the relationships between the guards and the prisoners changed, with a change in one leading to a change in the other. Remember that the guards were firmly in control and the prisoners were totally dependent on them. As the prisoners became more dependent, the guards became more derisive towards them. They held the prisoners in contempt and let the prisoners know it. As the guards’ contempt for them grew, the prisoners became more submissive. As the prisoners became more submissive, the guards became more aggressive and assertive. They demanded ever greater
  • 5. obedience from the prisoners. The prisoners were dependent on the guards for everything so tried to find ways to please the guards, such as telling tales on fellow prisoners. One prisoner had to be released after 36 hours because of uncontrollable bursts of screaming, crying and anger. His thinking became disorganized and he appeared to be entering the early stages of a deep depression. Within the next few days three others also had to leave after showing signs of emotional disorder that could have had lasting consequences. (These were people who had been pronounced stable and normal a short while before.) Zimbardo (1973) had intended that the experiment should run for a fortnight, but on the sixth day he closed it down. There was real danger that someone might be physically or mentally damaged if it was allowed to run on. After some time for the researchers to gather their data the subjects were called back for a follow-up, debriefing session. Conclusion: People will readily conform to the social roles they are expected to play, especially if the roles are as strongly stereotyped as those of the prison guards. The “prison” environment was an important factor in creating the guards’ brutal behavior (none of the participants who acted as guards showed sadistic tendencies before the study). Therefore, the roles that people play can shape their behavior and attitudes. Question/discussion point: How does Zimbardo’s experiment synch or not synch with Griffin’s theory of how character is formed in humans? What are the parallels? Are they exact or approximate? Chinese Cultural Revolution Between 1966 and 1976, the young people of China rose up in an effort to purge the nation of the "Four Olds": old customs, old culture, old habits and old ideas. In August, 1966, Mao Zedong called for the start of a Cultural Revolution at the Plenum of the Communist Central Committee.
  • 6. He urged the creation of corps of "Red Guards" to punish party officials and any other persons who showed bourgeois tendencies. Mao likely was motivated to call for the so-called Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in order to rid the Chinese Communist Party of his opponents after the tragic failure of his Great Leap Forward policies. Mao knew that other party leaders were planning to marginalize him, so he appealed directly to his supporters among the people to join him in a Cultural Revolution. He also believed that communist revolution had to be a continuous process, in order to stave off capitalist-roader ideas. Mao's call was answered by the students, some as young as elementary school, who organized themselves into the first groups of Red Guards. They were joined later by workers and soldiers. The first targets of the Red Guards included Buddhist temples, churches and mosques, which were razed to the ground or converted to other uses. Sacred texts, as well as Confucian writings, were burned, along with religious statues and other artwork. Any object associated with China's pre-revolutionary past was liable to be destroyed. In their fervor, the Red Guards began to persecute people deemed "counter-revolutionary" or "bourgeois," as well. The Guards conducted so-called "struggle sessions," in which they heaped abuse and public humiliation upon people accused of capitalist thoughts (usually these were teachers, monks and other educated persons). These sessions often included physical violence, and many of the accused died or ended up being held in reeducation camps for years. According to the Mao's Last Revolution by Roderick MacFarquhar and Michael Schoenhals, almost 1,800 people were killed in Beijing alone in August and September of 1966. . By February, 1967, China had descended into chaos. The purges
  • 7. had reached the level of army generals who dared to speak out against the excesses of the Cultural Revolution, and Red Guards groups were turning against one another and fighting in the streets. Mao's wife, Jiang Qing, encouraged the Red Guards to raid arms from the People's Liberation Army (PLA), and even to replace the army entirely if necessary. By December of 1968, even Mao realized that the Cultural Revolution was spinning out of control. China's economy, already weakened by the Great Leap Forward, was faltering badly. Industrial production fell by 12% in just two years. In reaction, Mao issued a call for the "Down to the Countryside Movement," in which young cadres from the city were sent to live on farms and learn from the peasants. Although he spun this idea as a tool for leveling society, in fact Mao sought to disperse the Red Guards across the country, so that they could not cause so much trouble anymore. Question/discussion point: Look at the role of education in Griffin’s text… what kinds of education are there? How much similarity is there between Himmler’s education and the Cultural Revolution? What is similar and what is not similar… be specific. Cain and Abel Adam[a] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.[b]She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[c] a man.” 2 Later she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. 6 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? 7 If you do what is right, will you not be
  • 8. accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.” 8 Now Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.”[d] While they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 Then the Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?” “I don’t know,” he replied. “Am I my brother’s keeper?” 10 The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” 13 Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Not so[e]; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,[f] east of Eden. The Expulsion To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” 17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
  • 9. and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” 20 Adam[k] named his wife Eve,[l] because she would become the mother of all the living. 21 The Lord God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” 23 So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[m] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. Question/discussion point: These are some of the heaviest hitting stories in the Judeo- Christian-Islamic tradition. Think about what they have to do with Griffin. Do you think Griffin was influenced by them? Look for lines in the stories that seem to link well with the claims that Griffin has made. Be specific.