1. Northampton Charter Review Committee
Councilor Jesse M. Adams (Vice-chair)
Colleen Currie (Secretary)
Councilor Marianne L. LaBarge
Councilor David A. Murphy
Alan Seewald (Chair)
Margaret Striebel
Marc Warner
DECEMBER 8, 2010 - CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS - 7 P.M.
PRESENT: JESSE ADAMS, COLLEEN CURRIE, MARIANNE LABARGE,
ALAN SEEWALD, MARGARET STRIEBEL, MARC WARNER
ABSENT: DAVID MURPHY
ATTENDING: ADAM COHEN - VIDEOTAPING MEETING; WENDY
FOXMYN; STEVE HERRELL; JOHN LIND
MINUTES
AGENDA
1. REVIEW AND APPROVE MINUTES FROM NOVEMBER 10, 2010
MEETING (5 MIN)
COUNCILOR LABARGE MOVED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES.
COUNCILOR ADAMS SECONDED THE MOTION. THE MOTION PASSED
UNANIMOUSLY.
2. PUBLIC FORUM (1HR 50 MIN)
MR. SEEWALD - HAD WHOLE SPEECH PREPARED FOR EVERYONE HERE
JUST TO MAKE CLEAR WE’RE TALKING ABOUT THE CHARTER, THE
STRUCTURE OF GOVERNMENT, AND THE WAY OUR GOVERNMENT IS
STRUCTURED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE
THAT HAS BEEN DECIDED, WHETHER YOU’RE HAPPY ABOUT IT OR
UNHAPPY ABOUT IT. WITH THOSE GROUND RULES, I WOULD
RECOGNIZE ANYONE FROM THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK.

2. STEVE HERRELL 474 ELM STREET - RESIDENT 32 YEARS
THINKS IT’S GREAT CHARTER IS BEING RE-DONE.
MAYOR SHOULD HAVE TERM OF 4 YEARS. TWO YEARS TOO SHORT TO
ESTABLISH GOALS AND EXECUTE THEM.
TERM LIMITS - TWO TERMS FOR MAYOR.
SCHOOL COMMITTEE - MAYOR SHOULD NOT BE VOTING MEMBER OF
SCHOOL COMMITTEE. GREATER POSSIBILITY OF TIE VOTES.
MEMBERS ELECTED FOR THAT JOB. QUITE CAPABLE. MAYOR HAS
TOO MUCH ELSE TO DO. CERTAINLY CAN BE INVITED, ESPECIALLY
TO PROVIDE INFO ABOUT BUDGET.
SCHOOL COMMITTEE MEMBERS UNDERPAID. MANY LONG MEETINGS,
RESEARCH, STUDY.
TERM [NAME] SHOULD BE CHANGED - BOARD OF EDUCATION OR
SCHOOL BOARD. IMPORTANT JOB, SHOULD HAVE MORE DIGNIFIED
NAME.
WENDY FOXMYN FAIRWAY VILLAGE, LEEDS
SERVED ON BEST PRACTICES COMMITTEE.
SERVED ON MAYOR’S TASK FORCE ON HUMAN RIGHTS. FIRST LOOK
AT CHARTER. A DISASTER OF A DOCUMENT. DIFFICULT TO GET
THROUGH.
A COMPLETE RE-DO NECESSARY. TRANSPARENCY/BEST
PRACTICES/GOOD GOVERNMENT A CLEARER, MORE EASILY READ
DOCUMENT IS NECESSARY.
UNDERSTANDS WHY MAYOR ON SCHOOL COMMITTEE - BUDGET -
POST-PROP 2 ½. BUT SOMETIMES THE WAY THINGS ARE ALWAYS
DONE NEEDS TO CHANGE.
STRONGLY SUPPORTS CHARTER COMMISSION - RE-DRAFT. MAYBE
SOME SPECIFIC ISSUES
INTERESTED IN GOVERNMENT. GREAT CITY DESERVES A GREAT
CHARTER.

3. MR. SEEWALD ASKED: CLEAR CONSENSUS WE NEED A NEW
CHARTER.
HOW TO PROCEED? BEST PRACTICES - CHARTER COMMISSION
MAY BE MORE INCLUSIVE OF PUBLIC, BUT A VERY RIGID AND
EXPENSIVE
PROCESS. SEES BOTH SIDES. DO YOU HAVE AN OPINION?
MS. FOXMYN - UNDERSTANDS THERE ARE TWO METHODS.
COMMISSION EXPENSIVE ONLY BECAUSE OF EXPERT?
MR. SEEWALD - TWO ELECTIONS; MAIL PROPOSED CHARTER TO
EVERY HOUSEHOLD WHERE THERE IS A REGISTERED VOTER.
MS. FOXMYN - HOW WOULD COMMITTEE DIFFER FROM COMMISSION?
MR. SEEWALD - DIFFERENT STRUCTURE. APPOINTED BY CITY
COUNCIL AND MAYOR.
MS. FOXMYN - HOW WOULD THE COMMISSION BE DIFFERENT FROM
WHAT YOU’VE DONE?
MR. SEEWALD - WE HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT IDENTIFY
THAT A NEW CHARTER NEEDS TO BE DRAFTED. POLICY ISSUES
NEEDS TO BE IRONED OUT. MAYOR CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL,
CHAIRING SCHOOL COMMITTEE, TERM LIMITS, LENGTH OF TERMS,
ETC.
MS. FOXMYN - WITHOUT COMMISSION, WHAT’S NEXT STEP?
MR. SEEWALD - CITY COUNCIL WOULD DETERMINE PROCESS.
GENERALLY COUNCIL AND MAYOR APPOINTS COMMITTEE - WITHOUT
FORMAL STRUCTURE OF COMMISSION - [LISTED PROCEDURES]
COMMITTEE COULD DO STUDY, MAKE RECOMMENDATION TO CITY
COUNCIL, CITY COUNCIL REQUESTS SPECIAL ACT OF LEGISLATION.
TYPICALLY LEGISLATURE REQUIRES CITIZENS’ VOTE BEFORE
LEGISLATURE ACTS.
MS. FOXMYN - DID YOU DISCUSS WITH MARILYN CONTRERAS?
MR. SEEWALD - YES. SHE BROUGHT SOME FIGURES ABOUT NUMBER
OF COMMUNITIES THAT HAD USED COMMISSION VERSUS
COMMITTEE.

4. MS. FOXMYN - FROM BEST PRACTICES POINT OF VIEW - A DESIGN
WITH BEST PRACTICES - BROAD COMMITTEE - BROADLY
REPRESENTATION - MAYBE ONLY ONE COUNCILOR - BUILT IN
PROCESS PUBLIC INVOLVEMENT FOR PUBLIC COMMENT -
REASONABLE SCHEDULE - BUDGET - STAFFING.
DON’T WANT TO DO ALL THE WORK AND NOT HAVE IT IMPLEMENTED.
SHE HAS SPECIFIC COMMENTS, BUT SHE’D BE INTERESTED IN
SERVING ON COMMITTEE OR RUNNING FOR COMMISSION, SO
WOULD NOT WANT TO ADDRESS SPECIFIC ISSUES NOW.
MR. WARNER - HE’S OF MIND THAT THIS COMMITTEE SHOULD BE
MAKING POLICY RECOMMENDATION. HOPES AT LEAST WE’LL MAKE
RECOMMENDATION FOR DIRECTION. NOT JUST THAT WE NEED NEW
CHARTER.
MR. SEEWALD - PROCESS THAT HAS BEST CHANCE MAY NOT BE
PROCESS THAT’S MOST OPEN.
MR. WARNER - LOOK AT PUBLIC RESPONSE IN THE PAST - VOTED
DOWN.
LOOK AT PUBLIC ATTENDANCE NOW. EDUCATION PROCESS. AT
LEAST A CLEANER DOCUMENT.
JOHN LIND - RYAN ROAD - STUDIED CHARTER MANY YEARS AGO.
ELECTED TO FEDERAL POSITION - PERKINS GRANT - COMMISSION.
WHEN HE WOULD MENTION HE WAS FROM NORTHAMPTON, WOULD
BE RECOGNIZED AS LOCATION OF SMITH AGRICULTURAL-
VOCATIONAL SCHOOL. THAT’S HOW HE GOT INTERESTED IN
CHARTER.
SMITH AGRICULTURAL-VOCATIONAL SCHOOL IN CHARTER.
THREE ELECTED TO SCHOOL COMMITTEE - CALLED TRUSTEES -
CONFUSION STARTED IN OLIVER SMITH WILL. REAL TRUSTEES ARE
THOSE FOR CHARITY. “TRUSTEES” FOR SMITH AGRICULTURAL-
VOCATIONAL SCHOOL ARE SUPERINTENDENTS. HAD BEEN CALLED
DIRECTORS.
RELEVANCE TO CHARTER, EDITING NEEDED SO INDIVIDUAL CITIZEN
CAN NAVIGATE THE DOCUMENT AND FIND WHAT THEY ARE LOOKING
FOR.
BUT WOULD LIKE TO SEE HISTORICAL ASPECTS KEPT AS THEY ARE,
BUT EXPLAINED.

5. SOME SUMMERS IN SOUTHAMPTON, LONG ISLAND - ATTENDS CITY
COUNCIL MEETINGS - IMPRESSED WITH WHAT THEY DO.
BEFORE REVISION - WOULD LIKE EDUCATIONAL PROCESS RE FORMS
OF GOVERNMENT AVAILABLE - LIKES WHAT GOES ON IN AMHERST.
PROPONENT OF CHARTER COMMISSION. POOR TURNOUT LAST
ELECTION. WOULD LIKE TO SEE EDUCATION. KNOWS MAILING IS
EXPENSIVE. EACH VOTER SHOULD LOOK AT IT. SHOULD LAST US
ANOTHER 100 YEARS. MODIFICATION METHODS SHOULD BE
INCLUDED. AMENDMENTS CODIFIED. MAKE IT READABLE - ABLE TO
FIND WHAT YOU’RE LOOKING FOR.
ADAM COHEN - NORTH STREET, NORTHAMPTON
SUPPORTS REVISING CHARTER FROM SCRATCH
SUPPORTS TERM LIMITS FOR MAYOR - 8 YEARS
MAYOR NOT CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL
MAYOR NOT CHAIRING OF SCHOOL COMMITTEE
CITY CLERK SHOULD BE ELECTED.
NOT HAVING MAYOR APPOINT COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MAYBE A
COMMITTEE OF CITY COUNCIL.
ELECTIONS SYNCHRONIZED WITH FEDERAL ELECTIONS TO INCREASE
PARTICIPATION.
PAY CITY COUNCILORS MORE.
CONCERNED ONE COUNCILOR’S SUGGESTION - MOVING PUBLIC
COMMENTS TO LATER IN COUNCIL MEETINGS - PUBLIC CONVENIENCE
SHOULD BE PRIORITY.
MR. SEEWALD - COMMENT PERIOD COUNCIL ISSUE, NOT CHARTER
ISSUE.
MR. WARNER - WHY ELECT CITY CLERK?
MR. COHEN - CHECKS AND BALANCES. SHOULD NOT INCREASE
CONSIDERABLE POWER OF MAYOR. DO YOU DISAGREE?

6. MR. WARNER - IF ROLE IS PRIMARILY CUSTODIAL -
PROFESSIONALISM - DON’T NEED VOTING BLOC/POPULARITY. ON
THE OTHER HAND, IF THERE WERE A SITUATION WHERE MAYOR AND
CITY COUNCIL COLLUDED TO SIPHON OFF ALL THE BUDGET FOR
PERSONAL USE, AND NO ONE PRIVY TO THAT, MAY WANT TO HAVE
SOMEONE OUTSIDE THAT CIRCLE. BUT THINKING WHICH SITUATION
MORE LIKELY, CHECKS AND BALANCES MAY BE PROVIDED
ELSEWHERE.
MR. COHEN - PROFESSIONALISM OF CITY CLERK NOT A PROBLEM.
BUT HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ELECTED AND APPOINTED.
RESPONSIBLE FOR KEEPING RECORDS, DISSEMINATING
INFORMATION. CAN BE IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHAT’S IN RECORDS.
CONTROVERSY IN PAST COUPLE OF YEARS.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - CURRENT CLERK WANTS TO KEEP AS AN
ELECTED POSITION.
MR. SEEWALD - VAST MAJORITY OF MODERN CHARTERS ELIMINATE
ELECTED POSITION OF THE CLERK. CLEAR MOVEMENT TOWARD
APPOINTMENT - RECORDING KEEPING; STATUTORY; PROFESSIONAL
POSITION. CONTROVERSY ALLUDED TO NOT AVERTED BY FACT THAT
IT IS AN ELECTED POSITION.
HE SEES BOTH SIDES OF ISSUES, BUT FAVORS PROFESSIONAL
APPOINTMENT AS WITH ALL CITY DEPARTMENTS.
MS. FOXMYN - NOT WEIGHING IN - JUST CLARIFYING - MUNICIPAL
APPOINTMENTS ARE HIRING PROCESSES - NOT POLITICAL
APPOINTMENTS.
MR. SEEWALD - AGREES - ALSO NOT EASY TO REMOVE PUBLIC
EMPLOYEES. USUALLY AN OVERLAY OF MUNICIPAL ORDINANCE.
MR. HERRELL - THINKING OF U.S. CONSTITUTION - OVER 200 YEARS
OLD - EVERYTHING LAID OUT AT BEGINNING - STILL THE SAME.
THEN THERE ARE AMENDMENTS.
CITY CHARTER - ALL THESE SUBNOTES - THIS WAS AMENDED,
ETC., ETC. CAN’T IT JUST BE MORE ORDERLY? HAS BEEN SAID, BUT
U.S. CONSTITUTION CAME TO MIND.
MR. SEEWALD - NO QUESTION. INCLUDING HANDWRITTEN PORTION.

7. MR. SEEWALD READ LETTER FROM ERIC STAHLBERG III. [ATTACHED
TO MINUTES.]
COMMITTEE MEMBERS RECEIVED LETTER FROM MICHAEL P. CURRAN
- HAD WORKED ON CHARTER IN PAST. MR. SEEWALD READ.
[ATTACHED TO MINUTES.]
MR. WARNER - SPOKE TO PAT GOGGINS - INVOLVED IN PAST
CHARTER COMMISSION 1970'S AND 1995/1996. WOULD BE WILLING
TO MEET WITH US.
MR. SEEWALD - IF COMMITTEE WANTS TO MEET WITH HIM, WE
COULD SET ASIDE TIME AT NEXT MEETING.
MS. FOXMYN - DOES COMMITTEE HAVE DEADLINE?
COUNCILOR ADAMS - MARCH.
MR. SEEWALD - WOULD LIKE TO COMPLETE BY FEBRUARY.
MS. FOXMYN - AGREES WITH MARC - THE COMMITTEE SHOULD MAKE
RECOMMENDATION RE PROCESS - WHETHER COMMISSION OR
COMMITTEE.
MR. WARNER - HOW DID YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS? WHY ONLY THREE
PEOPLE.
MS. FOXMYN - SAME EXPERIENCE WITH BEST PRACTICES
COMMITTEE. NEVER HAD THE DAILY HAMPSHIRE GAZETTE AT
MEETINGS. SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE ATTENDED. DID MAJOR
OUTREACH. YOU’RE UNDER THE RADAR; A FEW ARTICLES. ALSO
IT’S COMPLICATED. LIKE CIVICS LESSONS. ADAM HAS BEEN
FOLLOWING CITY GOVERNMENT. STEVE AND JOHN HAVE SERVED
AND BEEN INVOLVED. ALSO IT’S FREEZING OUTSIDE TONIGHT.
SHE’S INTERESTED. SHE WAS ON FRANKLIN COUNTY COMMISSION
YEARS AGO. THREE COMMISSIONS IN 10 YEARS, LAST ONE FINALLY
PASSED. COUNTY GOVERNMENT DISSOLVED. PEOPLE DIDN’T COME
TO MEETINGS.
MS. STRIEBEL - ISSUE SPECIFIC PARTICIPATION, NOT STRUCTURAL.
MS. FOXMYN - BIGGEST ISSUE SHE RECALLS WAS WHETHER COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE ON COUNCIL OF
GOVERNMENTS.

8. MR. HERRELL - MARC’S LAST QUESTION. - HEARD CHRIS COLLINS
TALK ABOUT IT A FEW TIMES. HE’S ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTED IN
HOW PEOPLE DECIDE TO GOVERN THEMSELVES. PEOPLE IN TOWN -
HE TALKED UP. HE’S APPALLED. THOUGHT ROOM WOULD BE FULL
AND WE’D BE LIMITED TO 2 OR 3 MINUTES APIECE.
MR. SEEWALD - WHERE DID YOU HEAR ABOUT FORUM?
MR. HERRELL - CHRIS COLLINS - INTERVIEW.
MR. SEEWALD - JOHN, WHERE DID YOU HEAR ABOUT IT?
MR. LIND - BILL NEWMAN’S SHOW AND CHRIS COLLINS AND MONTE
DEL MONTE.
MR. SEEWALD - CLOSING PUBLIC FORUM
MR. SEEWALD - PERHAPS IF A NICE SPRING EVENING, WITH PEOPLE
STROLLING BY, MAY HAVE GOTTEN MORE. WHEN WE INVITED ALL
PRESENT AND FORMER MAYOR, COUNCILORS, SCHOOL COMMITTEE,
AND SMITH VOC TRUSTEES - ONLY GOT FIVE AT MEETING - MAYOR
HIGGINS, COUNCIL PRESIDENT NARKIEWICZ, COUNCILOR
PLASSMAN, AND FORMER COUNCILOR BARDSLEY. GOT GREAT
INFORMATION. APPRECIATED THEM COMING OUT.
MR. WARNER - IF IT WAS BETWEEN SPENDING X DOLLARS TO GET A
NEW CHARTER, AND MUDDLING THROUGH WITH EXISTING CHARTER,
WHERE WOULD YOU DRAW THE LINE, WHAT WOULD BE THE
THRESHOLD AT WHICH YOU WOULD SAY IT WAS NOT WORTH IT,
LET’S JUST MUDDLE THROUGH.
MR. SEEWALD - WILL LET COUNCILORS ANSWER THAT.
COUNCILOR ADAMS - DOLLAR AMOUNT? I DON’T KNOW WHAT
DOLLAR AMOUNT IS.
MR. SEEWALD - NOT GOING TO GET CHEAPER. WE NEED A NEW
CHARTER. NEEDED IN 1971, 1985, .. NEED ONE NOW. IT’S
UNWORKABLE. AND THERE ARE SPECIFIC ISSUES WHICH NEED TO
BE CHANGED, E.G., BELIEVES MAYOR SHOULD NOT CHAIR COUNCIL
MS. CURRIE - MAY I ASK JOHN - HOW TO EDUCATE PUBLIC? HOW TO
GET THEM TO COME TO BE EDUCATED?

9. MR. LIND - NEED TO DO MAILING TO EVERY HOUSEHOLD. ALSO IT’S
COLD, A WEDNESDAY NIGHT, 7 P.M. NEWSPAPER COVERAGE NOT
THAT GOOD. RADIO O.K.
MR. SEEWALD - WAS IN GAZETTE.
MS. FOXMYN - WOULD SUGGEST OP-ED PAGE, WHETHER TO STATE A
POSITION OR ALERT PEOPLE TO PROCESS.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - PROBLEM GETTING REPORTERS TO MEETINGS
COUNCILOR ADAMS - A TREMENDOUS WASTE TO MAIL - WON’T READ
IT.
MS. CURRIE - I UNDERSTAND MAILING PROPOSED CHARTER.
MR. LIND - MAY NEED TO DO CALL FOR SUGGESTIONS.
MR. SEEWALD - THIS MEETING WAS A CALL FOR SUGGESTIONS.
MS. CURRIE - BESIDES GAZETTE AND RADIO, ALSO COUNCILORS
POSTED ON THEIR WEBSITES, SENT TO WARD ASSOCIATIONS. I
THINK IT’S NOT SEXY.
MR. LIND - IF YOU WENT TO RECYCLING CENTER AND TALKED TO
PEOPLE, MIGHT FIND OUT OTHERWISE.
COUNCILOR ADAMS - WHAT CAN WE DO?
MR. LIND - MAY BE A LOT OF REASONS PEOPLE NOT HERE. DOESN’T
MEAN EFFORT LAX. TWENTY-NINE THOUSAND IN THE CITY.
SOMETIMES ONE PERSON AT CITY COUNCIL; SOMETIMES 100
PEOPLE.
MR. HERRELL - NOT IN CHARTER, BUT IF YOU SAID YOU WERE
GETTING RID OF MAYOR, YOU’D GET PEOPLE. PEOPLE LOVE CITY -
IT’S WORKING.
MR. SEEWALD - THERE’S A WHOLE COMMUNITY OF PEOPLE WHO SAY
MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL CAN’T DO ANYTHING RIGHT, WHO
DON’T/DO NEED A NEW POLICE STATION, WE DON’T/DO NEED A
HOTEL, WE DON’T/DO NEED A DAM. HIS CONCERN - NO ONE WOULD
SHOW UP, OR A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD SHOW UP AND TALK ABOUT
THINGS OUT OF PURVIEW. THERE IS AN INTEREST IN GOVERNMENT.
SURPRISED TO HEAR PEOPLE DID NOT ATTEND BEST PRACTICES

10. MEETINGS. I SAID ON RADIO, IF YOU’RE INTERESTED IN BEST
PRACTICES, YOU SHOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS.
MR. COHEN - MIGHT CONSIDER SURVEY ON-LINE, AND FREE FORM
COMMENT AREA. SET FOR SPECIFIC TIME, STARTING SOON.
MS. CURRIE - SEND TO WHOM?
MR. COHEN - SAME NEWS AND DISTRIBUTION SOURCES YOU USED.
GOOGLE HAS SURVERY AND GOOGLE GROUPS.
MS. FOXMYN - DID WITH BEST PRACTICES; JUST DID WITH SOLID
WASTE MANAGEMENT TASK FORCE. SEND OUT IN PRESS RELEASE.
MR. HERRELL - GOOD IDEA. COULD HAVE SPECIFIC ISSUES AND ASK
FOR RESPONSES.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - PEOPLE WON’T COME TO PUBLIC COMMENT
SESSIONS - FEEL DEGRADED; FELL ON DEAF EARS; BUT ALSO
HEARS ABOUT ISSUES - LIKE JOHN HEARS AT RECYCLING CENTER.
MR. LIND - RE COST OF MAILING - EDUCATIONAL PROCESS - OP-ED
GOOD IDEA - NOT EVERYONE IS ON-LINE, EVEN A DEDICATED
COMPUTER IN LIBRARY - STILL WON’T COME. HOLDING A DOCUMENT
MAKES A DIFFERENCE. AND THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DOCUMENT.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - WARD 6 - A LOT OF RESIDENTS WITHOUT
COMPUTERS.
MR. SEEWALD - WILL BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DEAL WITH.
CLOSING PUBLIC FORUM.
3. ATTENDANCE AT NEXT MEETING (5 MIN)
MR. SEEWALD - JANUARY 12 - ANYONE WHO CANNOT BE HERE? HE
MAY BE IN TRIAL.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - IF BAD WEATHER, WHO DECIDES
CANCELLATION?
COUNCILOR ADAMS - WOULD SUGGEST CANCELLING THE MEETING IF
YOU (MR. SEEWALD) CAN’T BE HERE. VICE-CHAIR. COULD CHAIR
MEETING. COULD DECIDE ABOUT MEETING BASED ON WEATHER
DECISIONS. WOULD PREFER TO MOVE IT.

11. MR. SEEWALD - AGENDA FOR NEXT MEETING DEPENDS ON HOW
MUCH WE COVER TONIGHT. IF WE HAVE OUTLINE OF
RECOMMENDATIONS, AND MAGGIE COULD DRAFT REPORT, WE’D BE
REVIEWING REPORT. NEED NOT BE A TOME. OUTLINE WHAT WE
DID, WHAT WE RECOMMEND.
MR. WARNER - GETS THE SENSE THERE WAS CONSENSUS BEFORE HE
JOINED COMMITTEE NOT TO GET INTO BROAD POLICY
CONSIDERATIONS, BUT THINKS WE SHOULD HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT
WHICH PROCEDURE SHOULD BE USED TO REVISE THE CHARTER.
MS. CURRIE - I THOUGHT WE HAD THE DEBATE. TWO WAYS TO DO
IT. PEOPLE CAN DECIDE BETWEEN THE TWO. WE CAN MAKE A
RECOMMENDATION. DON’T BELIEVE WE NEED TO GO OVER THEM
AGAIN.
DISCUSSION ABOUT WHEN REPORT WOULD BE READY FOR US TO
REVIEW, WHEN NEXT MEETING SHOULD BE. JANUARY 12
CANCELLED; RESCHEDULED FOR JANUARY 5.
4. DISCUSSION OF ISSUES FOR REPORT TO COUNCIL (TIME
PERMITTING)
MR. SEEWALD - DO WE WANT TO COME TO RECOMMENDATION ON
PROCESS? [YESSES HEARD.] I’LL ENTERTAIN DISCUSSION.
MS. CURRIE - NOT COMMISSION.
MR. SEEWALD - WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHY.
MS. CURRIE - I COULD READ MINUTES OF LAST MEETING, AND
MEETINGS BEFORE, DURING WHICH ALAN WENT ON AND ON. I
ACCEPT YOUR REASONING. [READ SOME OF MINUTES.]
MR. SEEWALD - [HE READ] RE EXPEDIENCE MAY NOT BE
PREFERABLE. IT’S SOMETHING COUNCILORS WILL HAVE TO DECIDE.
DIDN’T TAKE A POSITION. MAY HAVE ADVOCATED MORE STRONGLY,
BUT REALLY DIVIDED. COUNTERVAILING INTEREST - OPEN, PUBLIC
PARTICIPATION VS. A STRUCTURE WHICH MAY BE MORE LIKELY TO
SUCCEED.
MS. STRIEBEL - NOT SURE STRUCTURE DETERMINES PARTICIPATION.
EITHER STRUCTURE NEEDS TO ENGAGE PUBLIC. ELECTION DOESN’T

12. GUARANTEE PARTICIPATION. INVOLVES THOSE ALREADY
INTERESTED IN TOPIC. APPOINTMENT - LIKE THIS - APPLIED -
INTERVIEWED. TESTED MY WILLINGNESS TO BE ENGAGED IN OUR
TASK. NOT ALWAYS TESTED IN AN ELECTION.
MS. CURRIE - GIVES OPPORTUNITY FOR BROADER MEMBERSHIP.
LARGE, VERY LARGE COMMITTEE. CONVINCING PEOPLE WHO SPEAK
AT RECYCLING CENTER AND TO COUNCILOR LABARGE TO
PARTICIPATE.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - THEY WON’T.
MS. CURRIE - THERE WILL ALWAYS BE PEOPLE WHO COMPLAIN AND
ARE DISSATISFIED, BUT ARE NOT WILLING TO COME FORWARD AND
DO SOMETHING TO CHANGE IT. A LARGE COMMITTEE GIVES THE
OPPORTUNITY WITH METHODS OF BEST PRACTICES, BETTER PUBLIC
NOTIFICATION. ALL YOU CAN DO IS GET INFORMATION OUT, AND
PEOPLE DECIDE WHETHER TO TAKE OPPORTUNITY TO PARTICIPATE.
COUNCILOR LABARGE - AGREES WITH WENDY - LARGE COMMITTEE -
INTERVIEW PROCESS - VALUABLE. WANTS COMMISSION.
MR. SEEWALD - NINE LARGE ENOUGH?
COUNCILOR LABARGE - THAT’S LARGE.
COUNCILOR ADAMS - EXPEDIENCY - COMMITTEE
MR. WARNER - HOPES YOU CAN GET PUBLIC INTEREST. MAYBE HOLD
A SERIES OF DEBATES. PROCESS - WOULDN’T WANT COMMISSION
OR COMMITTEE WITHOUT THE OPPORTUNITY FOR PUBLIC
INVOLVEMENT.
STILL WOULD NEED PUBLIC REFERENDUM.
CLEANING UP DOCUMENT. EDITING. UNDERSTANDS IT OPENS UP
TO POLICY CHANGES, BUT JUST HAVING A CLEAN DOCUMENT WOULD
BE HELPFUL.
WOULD NOT WANT TO HAVE PUBLIC REFERENDUM WITHOUT PEOPLE
BEING INFORMED OF CONSEQUENCES OF DECISION. WOULD LIKE
TO SEE DEBATE WITH PRESENTATION OF PROS AND CONS ON EACH
ISSUE.
MR. SEEWALD - SPECIAL ACT OR COMMISSION?

13. MR. WARNER - SPECIAL ACT. SIMPLICITY.
MS. STRIEBEL - DO YOU THINK YOU WOULD HAVE A LOSS OF PUBLIC
INPUT ?
MR. WARNER - COULD HAVE A LOSS OF PUBLIC INPUT. WOULD
HOPE/EXPECT WOULD STILL HAVE A FORUM TO MAKE DECISIONS
TRANSPARENT AND ALLOW PUBLIC TO HAVE INPUT.
MS. STRIEBEL - IF COMMITTEE APPOINTED - DOES IT COME WITH
MANDATE FOR PUBLIC PARTICIPATION? [NO.]
SO WE COULD RECOMMEND PUBLIC PARTICIPATION BE INCLUDED.
MS. FOXMYN - COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS TO CITY COUNCIL -
WHO HAS VESTED INTERESTS IN WHAT EXISTS
STRUCTURALLY.
MR. SEEWALD - AS DOES THE MAYOR. IMPLICATION IS THAT SOME
ISSUES WOULD BE OFF THE TABLE - TERM LIMITS, E.G..
COUNCILOR ADAMS - MAYOR DOES NOT VETO.
MR. WARNER - COUNCIL COULD HAVE VESTED INTEREST. IS THERE
A WAY TO INSURE INDEPENDENCE?
MS. STRIEBEL - CAN WE MANDATE A REFERENDUM?
MR. SEEWALD - WE CAN’T MANDATE ANYTHING. CITY COUNCIL CAN
MANDATE IT. I’M PRETTY SURE IN RECENT TIMES LEGISLATURE HAS
REQUIRED A RATIFICATION BY THE VOTERS.
MR. WARNER - A COMMISSION WOULD BE INDEPENDENT OF
COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR?
MR. SEEWALD - WE COULD RECOMMEND, HYPOTHETICALLY, THAT
THE COUNCIL APPOINT A COMMITTEE THAT HAS A BUDGET, HAS
STAFF, IS ABLE TO HIRE CONSULTANTS, SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC
EDUCATION COMPONENT, SIGNIFICANT PUBLIC HEARING
COMPONENT, APPOINTMENT BY MERIT, DIVERSE, RACIALLY,
ECONOMICALLY, VOCATIONALLY, REGIONALLY THROUGHOUT THE
CITY, VOTER RATIFICATION.

14. MR. WARNER - WOULD COMMISSION PRODUCT BE SUBJECT TO VETO
BY COUNCIL? [NO.] IS THERE CONCERN RE POTENTIAL
INTERFERENCE?
MR. SEEWALD - INTERFERENCE? NO. THINKS COMMITTEE WOULD
TAKE MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES OFF THE TABLE.
MS. STRIEBEL - COMMITTEE COULD STILL MAKE IT’S OWN
RECOMMENDATIONS. LESS ASSURED ACCOUNTABILITY?
MR. SEEWALD - IF COMMITTEE RECOMMENDS ELIMINATION OF
MAYOR AND GO TO CITY MANAGER, WOULD MAYOR SIGN IT?
MS. STRIEBEL - ANTICIPATING ONLY CLARITY RECOMMENDATIONS.
MR. SEEWALD - NO. TRYING TO BALANCE MOST LIKELY TO SUCCEED
WITH SOME CHANGES, E.G, MAYOR PRESIDING OVER COUNCIL.
UNLIKELY THAT ANY PROCESS WOULD CHANGE BASIC FORM OF
GOVERNMENT. GREATER LIKELIHOOD OF COMMITTEE PROCESS
SUCCEEDING.
MS. STRIEBEL - RISK - COMMISSION WOULD RECOMMEND CHANGES,
AND COULD LOSE AT BALLOT BOX.
MR. WARNER - IF JUST CLEARER DOCUMENT WITH LIMITED POLICY
CHANGES, ONCE YOU OPEN IT UP ALL, STILL HAVE OPPORTUNITY
FOR BROADER CHANGES.
MR. SEEWALD - NOT SUGGESTING LIMITATION. JUST SUGGESTING
MAJOR STRUCTURAL CHANGES UNLIKELY.
MR. WARNER - ANY WAY TO ESTABLISH INDEPENDENCE ...
COUNCILOR ADAMS - COULD WE JUST VOTE, AND THEN GET TO
OTHER RECOMMENDATIONS.
MR. SEEWALD - WOULD ENTERTAIN A MOTION.
MR. WARNER - JUST WANTS TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE FULL
UNDERSTANDING OF ALL RAMIFICATIONS.
MS. STRIEBEL - WANTS TO LOOK AT INFO FROM CONTRERAS ...
UNLESS WENDY - IF YOU HAVE A SENSE OF RELATIVE EFFICACY OF
METHODS.

15. MS. FOXMYN - ONLY KNOWS ABOUT CHARTER COMMISSIONS. IS
MONEY MAJOR STUMBLING BLOCK? EXPEDIENCY - TIME-
CONSUMING, DEMOCRACY IS MESSY. ANYTHING GOVERNMENT
DOES NEEDS TIME AND CARE. COUNCIL HAS DONE IN MINI WAYS.
ISSUE IS DO YOU WANT TO HAVE INDEPENDENT GROUP,
INDEPENDENT OF COUNCIL.
MR. SEEWALD - SINCE HOME RULE AMENDMENT PASSED - 180
COMMISSIONS; 88 HOME RULE CHARTERS [ETC. RE CITIES VS.
TOWNS.]
MS. FOXMYN - TOWNS HAVE GONE TO CITIES. MAJOR REVAMPING.
HAVE YOU HEARD THERE ARE ENOUGH SUBSTANTIVE, STRUCTURAL
CHANGES WHICH NEED TO BE DONE?
MR. SEEWALD - WE’VE HEARD ABOUT THINGS LIKE TERMS, TERM
LIMITS, MAYOR CHAIRING CITY COUNCIL, CHAIRING SCHOOL
COMMITTEE. REALISTICALLY, NEITHER COMMISSION NOR
COMMITTEE LIKELY TO MAKE MAJOR CHANGES. CLEAN UP AND
MINOR POLICY CHANGES. COMMITTEE MOST EXPEDITIOUS,
EFFICIENT, AND GREATEST LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS. COMMISSION
MEMBERS IDENTIFY SELVES AS HAVING AN ISSUE.
MS. CURRIE - OR ARE INTERESTED IN GOVERNMENT.
MS. STRIEBEL - OR HAVE THE TIME AND RESOURCES.
MR. SEEWALD - BELIEVES THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO WOULD BE
VALUABLE, BUT WOULD NOT PUT THEMSELVES OUT THERE.
MS. FOXMYN - IN COMMENT RE JUST CLEAN UP. CAN’T SEE HOW YOU
WOULDN’T GET TO POLICY ISSUES.
MS. STRIEBEL - TERM LIMITS, E.G., IS THERE AN ALTERNATIVE WAY
TO CHANGE OTHER THAN CHARTER REVISION.
MR. SEEWALD - TERM LIMITS IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAN’T BE
CHANGED WITHOUT COMMISSION OR SPECIAL ACT COMMITTEE.
MR. WARNER - APPLIES ONLY TO CURRENT COUNCIL AND MAYOR?
MR. SEEWALD - NONE OF THIS APPLIES ONLY TO THOSE CURRENTLY
SERVING.

16. MS. FOXMYN - A FEW YEARS AGO - A LOT OF TOWNS AND CITIES
TRIED TO DO TERM LIMITS - REFERENDUM.
MR. SEEWALD - ONLY WAY CITIZENS CAN BRING TERM LIMITS TO
FORE IS TO PETITION FOR CHARTER COMMISSION.
MS. FOXMYN - IT WAS DONE .. SORRY - SHE WAS REFERRING TO
RECALL.
MR. WARNER - PIECEMEAL CHANGES - ALL WENT TO LEGISLATURE.
MS. FOXMYN - MUCH OF IT UNDER THE RADAR.
MR. SEEWALD - EVEN IF WE HAD COMMISSION, COUNCIL COULD
STILL AMEND BY SPECIAL ACT.
MR. SEEWALD - DO I HAVE A MOTION? READY TO VOTE ON PROCESS
WE RECOMMEND FOR AMENDING THE CHARTER?
MS. CURRIE - MOTION - THAT WE VOTE.
COUNCILOR ADAMS - SECOND.
MR. SEEWALD - NEED A SUBSTANTIVE MOTION.
COUNCILOR ADAMS - BELIEVES MOTION WAS TO VOTE ON WHETHER
TO RECOMMEND THAT CITY COUNCIL AMEND CITY CHARTER BY
COMMISSION OR SPECIAL ACT. HE SECONDS MOTION.
MR. SEEWALD - [CLARIFYING.]
MS. CURRIE - MOTION - RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL APPOINT
A COMMITTEE TO AMEND THE CHARTER BY SPECIAL ACT.
MR. WARNER - SECONDED.
MR. SEEWALD - DISCUSSION? NONE. ALL IN FAVOR? - UNANIMOUS.
A FEW MINUTES BEFORE WE NORMALLY ADJOURN. ANY PARTICULAR
RECOMMENDATIONS?
ASK COUNCIL - LARGE COMMITTEE
BROAD REPRESENTATION - GEO, ECONOMICALLY
DIVERSE, RACIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, REGIONALLY

17. INCLUDE STRONG EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT
BROAD NOTICE TO COMMUNITY - DELIBERATIONS,
ETC.
TRANSPARENT
VOTER RATIFICATION
MS. STRIEBEL - MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO COUNCIL THAT
COMMITTEE INCLUDE THOSE CHARACTERISTICS. COUNCILOR
LABARGE SECONDED. VOTE - UNANIMOUS
MR. SEEWALD -ASKED MAGGIE TO PUT LIST TOGETHER (FROM
MINUTES OF LAST MEETING) - BY END OF JANUARY - DO WE NEED
JANUARY 5 MEETING ?
MS. STRIEBEL - IS THERE VALUE IN REPORT TO CHARACTERIZE
CHARTER - GENERAL CONTENT - FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES.
MR. SEEWALD - THINKS IT HAS TO INCLUDE BROAD DESCRIPTION OF
CHARTER. ALSO NEED TO PUT IN EXACT CHARGE OF COMMITTEE -
ORDINANCE ITSELF. OUTLINE WHAT WE HAVE DONE.
(COUNCILOR ADAMS HAD TO LEAVE.)
MR. WARNER - PROCESS FOR REVIEW?
MR. SEEWALD - BRING COMMENTS TO MEETING.
MS. CURRIE - AGREE WE DO NOT NEED JANUARY 5 MEETING?
MR. SEEWALD - YES. WILL E-MAIL MARY MIDURA.
5. ADJOURN
MS. STRIEBEL - MOVED. COUNCILOR LABARGE SECONDED.