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IT and HR: A Not So Odd Couple
Transcript of a discussion on how those writing the next chapters of human resources and
information technology interactions are finding common ground to significantly improve the
modern employee experience.
Listen to the podcast. Find it on iTunes. Download the transcript. Sponsor: Citrix.
Dana Gardner: Hi, this is Dana Gardner, Principal Analyst at Interarbor Solutions, and
you’re listening to BriefingsDirect.
How businesses perform has always depended on how well their employees perform.
Yet never before has the relationship between how well employees work and the digital
technology that they use been so complex.
At the same time, companies are grappling with the transition to increasingly data-driven
and automated processes. What’s more, the top skills at all levels are increasingly
harder to find -- and hold onto -- for supporting strategic business agility.
As a result, business leaders must enhance and optimize today’s employee experience
so that they in turn can optimize the customer experience and -- by extension – better
support the success of the overall business.
Stay with us now as we explore how those writing the next chapters of human resources
(HR) and information technology (IT) interactions are finding common ground to
significantly improve the modern employee experience.
I’m pleased to be joined by two leaders in this area who will now share their thoughts on
how intelligent workspace solutions are transforming work -- and heightening worker
satisfaction.
Please welcome Art Mazor, Principal and Global
Human Resources Transformation Practice Leader at
Deloitte. Welcome, Art.
Art Mazor: Thanks so much, Dana. It’s good to be
here.
Gardner: We are also here with Tim Minahan,
Executive Vice President of Strategy and Chief
Marketing Officer at Citrix. Welcome to the show, Tim.
Tim Minahan: Thanks, Dana. Always a pleasure.
Gardner: Art, is there more of a direct connection now
between employee experience and overall business success?
Mazor

2. Page 2 of 17
Purposeful employees produce profits
Mazor: There has been a longstanding sense on the part of leaders intuitively that
there must be a link. For a long time people have said, “Happy employees equal happy
customers.” It’s been understood.
But now, what’s really powerful is we have true evidence that demonstrates the linkage.
For example, in our Deloitte Global Human Capital Trends Report 2019, in its ninth year
running, we noticed a very important finding in this regard: Purpose-focused companies
outperformed their S&P 500 peers by a factor of 8. And, when you think about, “Well,
how do you get to purpose for people working in an organization?” It’s about creating
that strong experience.
What’s more, I was really intrigued when
MIT recently published a study that
demonstrated the direct linkage between
positive employee experience and business
performance. They showed that those with
really strong employee experiences have
twice the innovation, double the satisfaction
of customers, and 25 percent greater
profitability.
So those kinds of statistics tell me pretty clearly that it matters -- and it’s driving business
results.
Gardner: It’s seemingly commonsense and an inevitable outcome when employees and
their positive experiences impact the business. But reflecting on my own experiences,
some companies will nonetheless talk the talk, but not always walk the walk on building
better employee experiences, unless they are forced to.
Do you sense, Art, that there are some pressures on companies now that hadn’t been
there before?
Mazor: Yes, I think there are. Some of those pressures, appropriately, are coming from
the market. Customers have a very high bar with which they measure their experience
with an organization. We know that if the employee or workforce experience is not up to
par, the customers feel it.
That demand, that pressure, is coming from customers who have louder voices now
than ever before. They have the power of social media, the ability to make their voices
known, and their perspectives heard.
There is also a tremendous amount of competition among a variety of customers. As a
result, leaders recognize that they have to get this right. They have to get their workers
[MIT’s study] showed that those
with really strong employee
experiences have twice the
innovation, double the satisfaction
of customers, and 25 percent
greater profitability.

3. Page 3 of 17
in a place where those workers feel they can be highly productive and in the service of
customer outcomes.
Minahan: Yes, I totally agree with Art. In addition, there
is an added pressure going on in the market today and
that is the fact that there is a huge talent crunch.
Globally McKinsey estimates there is a shortage of 95
million medium- to high-skilled workers.
We are beginning to see even forward-thinking digital
companies like Amazon saying, “Hey, look, we can’t go
out and hire everyone we need; certainly not in one
location.” So that’s why you have the HQ2 competition,
and the like.
Just in July, Amazon committed to investing more than
$700 million to retrain a third of their workforce with the
skills that they need to continue to advance. This is part of that pressure companies are
feeling:
“Hey, we need to drive growth. We need to digitize our businesses. We need to provide
a greater customer experience. But we need these new skills to do it, and there just is
not enough talent in the market.”
So companies are rethinking that whole employee engagement model to advance.
Gardner: Tim, the concept of employee experience was largely in the domain of people
like Art and those that he supports in the marketplace -- the human resources and
human capital management (HCM) people.
How does IT now have more of a role? Why do IT and HR leaders need to be more
attached at the hip?
Download the Economist Research
On How Technology Drives
The Modern Employee Experience
Minahan: Much of what chief human resources officers (CHROs) and chief people
officers (CPOs) have done to advance the culture and physical environment with which
to attract and retain the right talent has gone extremely far. That includes improving
benefits, ensuring there is a purpose, and ensuring that the work environment is very
pleasurable.
However, we just conducted a study together with The Economist, a global study into
employee experience and how companies are prioritizing it. And one of things that we
found is organizations have neglected to take a look at the tools and the access to
Minahan

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information that they give their employees to get their jobs done. And that seems to be a
big gap.
This gap was reaffirmed by a recent
global Gallup study where right behind
the manager, the number one indicator
of employee engagement was if they
feel they have the right access to the
information and tools they need to do
their best job.
So technology -- the digital workspace, if you will -- plays an increasingly important role,
particularly in how we work today. We don’t always work at a desk or in a physical
environment. In fact, most of us work in multiple locations throughout the day. And so
our digital workspace needs to travel with us, and it needs to simplify our day -- not
make it more complex.
Gardner: Art, as part of The Economist study that Tim cited, “ease of access to
information required to get work done” was one of the top things those surveyed
identified as being part of a world-class employee experience.
That doesn’t surprise me because we are asking people to be more data-driven. But to
do so we have to give them that data in a way they can use it.
Are you seeing people thinking more about the technology and the experience of using
and accessing technology when it comes to HR challenges and improvement?
HR plus IT gets the job done
Mazor: Yes, for sure. And in the HR function, technology has been front and center for
many years. In fact, HR executives, their teams, and the workers they serve have been
at an advantage in that technology investments have been quite rich. The HR space was
one of the first to move to the cloud. That’s created lots of opportunities beyond those
that may have been available even just a few short years ago.
To your point, though, and building on Tim’s comments, [employee experience
requirements] go well beyond the traditional HR technologies. They are focused around
areas like collaboration, knowledge sharing, interaction, and go into the toolsets that
foster those kinds of necessities. They are at the heart of being able to drive work in the
way that work needs to get done today.
The days of traditional hierarchies -- where your manager tells you what to do and you
go do it -- are quickly dwindling. Now, we still have leaders and they tell us to do things
and that’s important; I don’t mean to take away from that. Yet, we are moving to a world
where, in order to act with speed, teams are forming in a more agile way. Networked
The number one indicator of
employee engagement was if they
feel they have the right access to
the information and tools they need
to do their best job.

5. Page 5 of 17
groups are operating together cross-functionally and across businesses, and
geographies -- and it’s all demanding, to your point, new toolsets.
Fortunately, there are a lot of tools that are out there for that. Like with any new area of
innovation, though, it can be overwhelming because there are just so many technologies
coming into the marketplace to take advantage of.
The trick we are finding is for
organizations to be able to separate the
noise from the impactful technologies
and create a suite of tools that are easy
to navigate and remove that kind of
friction from the workplace.
Gardner: Tim, a fire hose of technology is certainly not the way to go. From The
Economist survey we heard that making applications simple – with a consumer-like user
experience -- and with the ability to work from anywhere are all important. How do you
get the right balance between the use of technology, but in a simplified and increasingly
automated way?
A workspace to unify work
Minahan: Art hit the exact right word. All this choice and access to technology that we
use to get our jobs done has actually created a lot more complexity. The typical
employee now uses a dozen or more apps throughout the day, and oftentimes needs to
navigate four more applications just to get a single task or a bit of information that they
are looking for. As a result, they need to navigate a whole bunch of different
environments, remember a whole bunch of different usernames and passwords, and it’s
creating a lot of noise in their day.
To Art’s point, there is an emergence of a new category of technology, a digital
workspace that unifies everything for an employee, gives them single sign-on access to
everything they need to be productive, and one unified experience, so they don’t need to
have as much noise in their day.
Certainly, it also provides an added layer of security around things. And then the third
component that gets very, very exciting is that forward-thinking companies are beginning
to infuse things like machine learning (ML) and simplified workflows or micro apps that
connect some of these technologies together so that the employee can be guided
through their day -- very much like they are in their personal lives, where Facebook
might guide you and curate your day for the news and social interactions you want.
Netflix, for example, will make up the recommendations based on your historical
behaviors and preferences. And that’s beginning to work its way into the workplace. So
the study we just did with The Economist clearly points to bringing that consumer-like
experience into the workplace as a priority among IT and HR leaders.
Organizations [need] to be able to
separate the noise from the impactful
technologies and create a suite of
tools that are easy to navigate.

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Gardner: Art, you have said that a positive employee experience requires removing
friction from work. What do you mean by friction and is that related to this technology
issue, or is it something even bigger?
Remove friction, maximize productivity
Mazor: I love that you are asking that, Dana. I think it is something bigger than
technology -- yet technology plays a massively important role.
When we think about friction, and what I love about that word in this context, is it’s a
plain English word. We know that friction means. It’s what causes something to slow
down.
And so it’s bigger than just technology in the sense that to create that positive worker
experience we need to think about a broader construct, which is the human experience
overall. And elevating that human experience is about, first and foremost, recognizing
that everyone wakes up every morning as a human. We might play the role of a worker,
we might play the role of customer, or some other role. But in our day-to-day life,
anything that slows us down from being as productive as possible is, in my view, the
element that is this friction.
So that could be process-oriented, it could be policy and bureaucracy that gets in the
way. It could be managers who may be struggling with empowerment of their teams. It
might even be technology, to your point, that causes it to be more difficult to, as Tim was
rightly saying, navigate through to all the different apps or tools.
And so this idea of friction and removing it is really about enabling that workforce to be
focused myopically on delivering results for customers, the business, and the other
workers in the enterprise. Whatever it may be, anything that stands in the way should be
evaluated as a potential cause of friction.
Sometimes that friction is good in the sense of slowing things down for purposes like
compliance or risk management. In other cases, it’s bad friction that just gets in the way
of good results.
View Video on How Companies
Drive Improved Employee Experiences
To Foster Better Business Results
Minahan: I love what Art’s talking about. That is the next wave we will see in
technology. When we talk about these digital workspaces -- moving from traditional
enterprise applications – built around giving functions and modern collaborations tools,
they are focused on team-based collaboration. Still, individuals need to navigate all of
these environments -- and oftentimes work in different ways.

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And so this idea of people-centric computing, in which you put the person at the center,
makes it easy for them to interact with all of these different channels and remove some
of the noise from their day. They can do much more meaningful work -- or in some
cases, as one person put it to me, “Get the job done that I was hired to do.” I really
believe this is where we are now going.
And you have seen it in consumer technologies. The web came about to organize the
world’s information, and apps came about to organize the web. Now you have this idea
of the workspace coming about to organize all of those apps so that we can finally get all
the utility that had been promised.
Gardner: If we return to our North Star concept, the guiding principle, that this is all
about the customer experience, how do we make a connection between solidifying that
employee experience as Tim just described but to the benefit of the customer
experience?
Art, who in the organization needs to make sure that there isn’t a disconnect or
dissonance between that guiding principle of the customer experience and buttressing it
through the employee experience?
Leaders emphasize end-customer experience
Mazor: We are finding this is one of the biggest challenges, because there isn’t a clear-
cut owner for the workforce experience. That’s probably a good thing in the long run,
because there are way too many individual groups, teams, and leaders who must be
involved to have only one accountable leader.
That said, we are finding a number of organizations achieving great success by at least
appointing either an existing function – and in many cases we are finding that happens
to be HR – or in some organizations finding a different way of having accountability for
orchestrating the experience. The best meaning is around bringing together a variety of
groups -- those could be HR, IT, real estate, marketing, finance, and the business
leaders for sure to all play their roles inside of that experience.
Delivering on that end-customer experience
as the brass ring, or the North Star to mix
metaphors, becomes a way of thinking. It
requires a different mindset that enterprises
are shaping for themselves -- and their
leaders can model that behavior.
I will share with you one great example of this. In the typical world of an airline, you
would expect that flight attendants are there -- as you hear on the announcements -- for
your safety first, and then to provide services. But one particular major airline recognized
that those flight attendants are also the ones who can create the greatest stickiness to
Delivering on that end-customer
experience … requires a different
mindset that enterprises are
shaping for themselves.

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customer relationships because they see their top customers in flight, where it matters
the most.
And they have equipped that group of flight attendants with data in the form of a mobile
device app that they use to see who is on board and where they sit in the importance of
being customers in terms of revenue and other important factors. That provides triggers
to those flight attendants, and others on the flight staff, to help recognize those
customers and to ensure that they are having a great experience. And when things don’t
go as well as possible, perhaps due to Mother Nature, those flight attendants are there
to keep watch over their most important customers.
That’s a very new kind of construct in a world where the typical job was not focused on
customers. Now, in an unwitting way, those flight attendants are playing a critical role in
fostering and advancing those relationships with key customers.
There are many, many examples like that that are the outcome of leaders across
functions coming together to orchestrate an experience that ultimately is centered
around creating a rich customer experience where it matters the most.
Minahan: Two points. One, what Art said is absolutely consistent with the findings of the
study we conducted jointly with The Economist. There is no clear-cut leader on
employee experience today. In fact, both CHROs and CIOs equally indicated that they
were on-point as the lead for driving that experience.
We are beginning to see the
emergence of a digital employee
experience officer that’s emerging at
some organizations to help drive the
coordination that Art is talking about.
But the second point to your question, Dana, around how do we keep employees
focused on the customer experience, it goes back to your opening question around
purpose. Increasingly, as Art indicated, there is clear demonstration of companies that
have clear purpose and are performing better -- and that’s because that purpose tends
to be on some business outcome. It drives some greater experience or innovation or
business outcome for their customers.
If we can ensure that employees have the right tools, information, skills, and training to
deliver that customer experience, then they are clearly aligned. I think it all ties very well
together.
Gardner: Tim, when I heard Art talking about the flight attendants, it occurred to me that
there is a whole class of such employees that are in that direct-interaction-with-the-
customer role. It could be retail, the person on the floor of a clothing seller; or it could be
a help desk operator. These are the power users that need to get more data, help, and
inference knowledge delivered to them. They might be the perfect early types of users
that you provide a digital workspace to.
We are beginning to see the
emergence of a digital employee
experience officer ... at some
organizations to help drive coordination.

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Let’s focus on that workspace. What sort of qualities does that workspace need to have?
Why are we in a better position, when it comes to automation and intelligence, than ever
before to empower those employees, the ones on the front lines interacting with the
customers?
Effective digital workspace requirements
Minahan: Excellent question. There are three, and an emerging fourth, capabilities
required for an effective digital workspace. The first is it needs to be unified. We talked
about all of the complexity and noise that bogs down an employee’s day, and all of the
applications they need to navigate. Well, the digital workspace must unify that by giving
a single-sign-on experience into the workspace to access all the apps and content that
an employee needs to be productive and to do engaging work, whether they are at the
office, on the corporate network, or on their tablet at home, or on their smartphone on a
train or a plane.
The second part is obviously -- in this day and age, considering especially those front-
line employees that are touching customer information -- it all needs to be secure. The
apps and content need to be more secure within the workspace than when accessed
natively. That means dynamically applying security policies and perhaps asking for a
second layer of authentication, based on that employee’s behavior.
The Employee Experience is Broken
Learn How IT and HR Together Can Fix It
The third part is around intelligence. Bringing things like machine learning and simplified
workflows into the workspace to create a consumer-like experience, where the employee
is presented with the right information and the right task within the workspace so that
they can quickly access those -- rather than needing to log-in to multiple applications
and go four layers deep.
The fourth capability that’s emerging, and that we hear a lot about, is the assurance that
those applications, -- especially for front-line employees who are engaged with
customers -- are performing at their very best within the workspace. [Such high-level
performance needs to be delivered] whether that employee is at a corporate office or
more likely at a remote retail branch.
Bringing some of the historical infrastructure like networking technology to bear in order
to ensure those applications are always on and reliable is the fourth pillar of what’s
making new digital workspace strategies emerge in the enterprise.
Gardner: Art, for folks like Tim and me, we live in this IT world and we sometimes get
lost in the weeds and start talking in acronyms and techy-talk. At Deloitte, you are widely
regarded as the world’s number-one HR transformation consultancy.

10. Page 10 of 17
First, tell us about the HR consultancy practice at Deloitte. And then, is explaining what
technology does and is capable of a big part of what you do? Are you trying to explain
the tech to the HR people, and then perhaps HR to the tech people?
Transforming HR with technology
Mazor: First, thanks for the recognition. We are truly humbled and yet proud to be the
world’s leading HR transformation firm. By having the opportunity as we do to partner
with the world’s leading enterprises to shape and influence the future of HR, it gives us a
really interesting window into exactly what you are describing.
At a lot of the organizations we work with, the HR leaders and their teams are
increasingly well-versed in the various technologies out there. The biggest challenge we
find is being able to harness the value of those technologies, to find the ones that are
going to produce impact at a pace and at a cost and return that really is valued by the
enterprise overall.
For sure, the technology elements are critical enablers. We recently published a piece
on the future of HR-as-a-function that’s based on a combination of our research and field
experience. What we identified is that the future of HR requires a shift in four big areas:
--The mindset, meaning the culture and the behaviors of the HR function.
--The focus, meaning focusing in on the customers themselves.
--The lens through which the HR function operates, meaning the operating
model and the shift toward a more agile-network kind of enterprise HR function.
--The enablers, meaning the wide array of technologies from core HR platform
technologies to collaboration tools to automation, ML, artificial intelligence (AI),
and so on.
The combination of these four areas enables HR-as-a-function to shift into what we’re
referring to as a world that is exponential. I will give you one quick example though
where all this comes together.
There is a solution set that we are finding is incredibly powerful inside of driving
employee experiences that we refer to as creating a unified engagement platform,
meaning the blend of all these technologies in a simple-to-navigate experience that
empowers the workers across an enterprise.
We, Deloitte, have actually created one of those platforms in the market that leads the
space, called ConnectMe, and there are certainly others. And in that, what we are
essentially finding is that HR leaders are looking for that simple-to-navigate, frictionless

11. Page 11 of 17
kind of environment where people can get their jobs done and enjoy doing them at the
same time using technology to empower them.
The premise that you described is spot-on. HR leaders are navigating this complex set
of technologies out there that are terrific because they’re providing advantages for the
business functions. A lot of the technology firms are investing heavily in worker-facing
technology platforms, for exactly the reason we have been chatting about here.
Gardner: Tim, when it comes to the skills gap, it is an employee’s market.
Unemployment rates are very low, and the types of skills in demand are hard to find.
And so the satisfaction of that top-tier worker is essential.
It seems to me that the better tools you can give them, the more they want to work. If I
were a top-skilled employee, I would want to go with the place that has the best
information that empowers me in the best way and brings contextual information with
security to my fingertips.
But that’s really difficult to do. How do businesses then best enhance and entice
employees by giving them the best intelligence tools?
Intelligent tools support smart workers
Minahan: If you think about your top-performing employees, they want to do their most
meaningful work and to perform at their best. As a result, they want to eliminate a lot of
the noise from their day, and, as Art mentioned before, that friction.
And that friction is not solely technological, it’s often manifested through technology due
to certain tasks or requirements that we need to do that may not pertain to our core jobs.
So, last time I checked, I don’t think either Art or myself were hired to review and
approve expense reports or to spend a good chunk of our time approving vacations or
doing full-scale performance reviews. Yet those types of applications that may not be
pertinent to our jobs or processes, tend to take up a good part of our time.
What digital workspaces or digital work
platforms do in the first phase is remove
that noise from your day so that your
best-performing employees can do their
best work. The second phase uses
those same platforms to help employees
do better work through making sure that information is pushed to them as they need it.
That’s information that is pertinent to their jobs. In a salesperson’s environment that
might be a change in pipeline status, or a change in a prospect or customer activity. Not
only do they get information at their fingertips, they can take action.
The second phase uses those same
platforms to help employees do better
work through making sure information is
pushed to them as they need it.

12. Page 12 of 17
And what gets very exciting about that is you have the opportunity now to elevate the
skills of every employee. We talk about the skills gap, but this is but one way to go re-
train everybody.
Another way is to make sure that you’re giving them an unfair advantage within the work
platforms you are using to guide them through the right process. So a great example is
sales force productivity. A typical company takes 9-12 months to get a salesperson up to
full productivity. Average tenure of a salesperson is somewhere around 36 months. So a
company is getting a year-and-a-half of productivity out of a salesperson.
What if by eliminating all that noise, and by using this digital work platform to help push
the right information, tasks, right actions, and the right customer sales pitches to them at
the right time, you can cut that time to full productivity in half?
Think about the real business
value that comes from using
technology to actually elevate the
skill set of the entire workforce,
rather than bog it down.
Gardner: Tim, do you have any examples that illustrate what you just described? Any
named or use case types of examples that show how what you’re doing at Citrix has
been a big contributor?
Minahan: One example that’s top-of-mind not only helps improve employee experiences
to elevate the experience for customers, but also allows companies to rethink work
models in ways they probably haven’t since the days of Henry Ford. And the example
that comes to mind is eBay.
We are all familiar with eBay, one of the world’s largest online digital marketplaces. Like
many other companies, they have a large customer call center where buyers and sellers
ask questions. These call center employees have to have the right information at their
fingertips to get things done.
Well, the challenge they faced was with the talent gap and labor shortage. Traditionally
they would build a big call center, hire a bunch of employees, and train them at the call
center. But now, it’s harder to do that; they are competing with the likes of Amazon,
Google and others who are all trying to do the same thing.
And so they used technology to break the traditional mold and to create a new work
model. Now they go to where the talent is, such as the stay-at-home parent in Montana
and the retiree in Florida, or the gig worker in Boston or New York. They can now arm
them with a digital workspace and push the right information and toolsets to them. By
doing so you ensure they get the job done even though if you or I call in we don’t know
that they are not sitting in a centralized call center.
[There is a] real business value that comes
from using technology to actually elevate
the skill set of the entire workforce, rather
than bog it down.

13. Page 13 of 17
This is just one example as we begin to harness and unify this technology of how we can
change work models. We can create not just the better employee experience, but
entirely new ways to work.
Gardner: Art, it’s been historically difficult to measure productivity, and especially to find
out what contributes to that productivity. The same unfortunately is the case with
technology. It’s very difficult to measure quantitatively and qualitatively what technology
directly does for both employee productivity and overall organizational productivity.
Are there ways for us to try to measure how new workspaces and good HR contribute to
good employee satisfaction -- and ultimately customer satisfaction? How do we know
when we are doing this all right?
Success, measured
Mazor: This is the holy grail in many ways, right? You get what you measure, and this
whole space of workforce experience in many ways is a newer discipline. Customer
experience has been around for a while and gained great traction and measurement. We
can measure customer feedback. We can measure net promoter scores, and a variety of
other indicators, not the least of which may be revenue, for example, or even profitability
relative to customer base. We equally are now starting to see the emergence of
measurements in the workforce experience arena.
And at the top-line we can see measurements like measuring workforce engagement. As
that rises, likely there is a connection to positive worker experience. We can measure
productivity. We can even measure the growth of capabilities within the workforce that
are being gained as a result of -- as we like to say -- learning in the flow of work, to
develop their capabilities.
That path is really important to chart out because it has similarities to those tools,
methods, and approaches used inside the customer space. We think about it in very
simple terms, we need to first look, listen, and understand to sense what’s happening
with the workforce.
How to Harness Technology
To Inspire Workers to Perform
At Their Unencumbered Best
We need to generate and prioritize different ideas of ways in which the experience for
the workforce can be moved. Then we need to iterate, test, refine, and plan the kinds of
changes you might prototype that provides you that foundation to measure. And in the
workforce experience space, it’s a variety of measures that we are starting to see to get
down into the granular levels below those top-line measures that I mentioned.

14. Page 14 of 17
What comes to mind for me are things like measuring the user experience for all of the
workers. How effective is the product or service that they are being asked to use? How
quickly can they deliver their work? What feedback do we get from workers? So kind of a
worker feedback category.
And then there are a set of operational measures that can track inputs and outputs from
various processes and various portions of the experience. There is that kind of
categorization “in those three buckets” that really seems to be working well for many of
our clients to measure that notion of workforce experience to your point, of, “Did we get it
right?”
But in the end, as I shared at the
beginning, I think it’s really critical
that organizations measure that
workforce experience through the
ultimate lens, which is, “How are we
dealing with our customers?” When
that’s performing well, chances are pretty good, based on the research that we have
seen, that the connection is there to the employee or workforce experience.
Minahan: When we are talking about the employee experience, we should be careful --
it’s not synonymous with just productivity. It’s a balance of productivity and employee
engagement that together ultimately drives greater business results, customer
experience, satisfaction, and improved profitability. Employee experience has been
synonymous with productivity, it’s certainly a key integer into it, but it’s not the only one.
Gardner: Tim, how should IT people be thinking differently when it comes to how they
view their own success? It was not that long ago where simply the performance of the
systems -- when all the green lights were on and the networks were not down -- was the
gauge of success. Should IT be elevating how it perceives itself and therefore how it
should rate itself when it’s successful within these larger digital transformation
endeavors?
Information, technology, and better business
Minahan: Yes, absolutely. I think this could be the revitalization of IT as it moves beyond
the items that you mentioned: keeping the networks up, keeping the applications
performing well. IT can now drive better business outcomes and results.
Those forward-thinking companies looking to digitize their business realize that it’s very
hard to ask an employee base to drive a greater digital customer experience without
arming them with the right tools, information, and experience in their own right in order to
get that done. IT plays a very major role here, locking arms in unison with the CHRO, to
move the needle and turn employee experience into a competitive edge -- not just for
attracting and retaining talent, but ultimately for driving better business results.
It’s really critical that organizations
measure that workforce experience
through the ultimate lens, which is, “How
are we dealing with our customers?”

15. Page 15 of 17
Gardner: I hope, if anything, this conversation prompts more opportunity for the human
resources leadership and the IT leadership to spend time together and brainstorm and
find commonality.
Before we sign off, just a quick look to the future. Art, for you, what might be changing
soon that will help remove even more friction for employees? What is it that’s down the
pike over the next three to five years -- technologies, processes, market forces – that
might be an accelerant to removing friction? Are there bright spots in your thinking about
the future?
Bright symphony ahead
Mazor: I think the future is really bright. We are optimistic by nature, and we see
enterprises making terrific, bold moves to embrace their future as challenging as the
future is.
One of the biggest opportunities is the recognition of the imperative for executives and
their teams to operate in a more symphonic way. And when I say that I mean to work
together to achieve a common set of results, moving away from the historical silos that
were emerging from a zeal for efficiency and that led to organizations having these
various departments, and then the departments working within themselves and finding it
a struggle to create integration.
We are seeing a huge unlocking of that, in the spirit of creating more cross-functional
teams and more agile ways of working -- truly operating in the digital age. As we talked
about in one of our recent capital trends reports, the idea of driving this is a more
symphonic C-Suite, which then has a cascading effect for teams across the board inside
of enterprises all to be working better together.
And then, secondly, there is a big recognition by enterprises now around the imperative
to create meaning in the work that workers are doing. Increasingly, we are seeing this as
a demand. This is not a single-generational demand. It’s not that the younger generation
needs meaning or anything like that, that fits into stereotypes.
Rather, it’s a recognition that when we create purpose and meaning for the workers in
an enterprise, they are more committed. They are more focused on outcomes, as
opposed to activities. They begin to recognize the outcomes’ linkage to their own
personal purpose, meaning for the enterprise, and for the work itself.
And so, I think those two things
will continue to emerge on a fairly
rapid basis, to be able to embrace
that need for symphonic
operations and symphonic
collaboration, as well as the
imperative to create meaning and
Two things will continue to emerge … to be
able to embrace that need for symphonic
operations and symphonic collaboration, as
well as the imperative to create meaning
and purpose for workers of an enterprise.

16. Page 16 of 17
purpose for the workers of an enterprise. This will all unlock and unleash those
capabilities focused on the customer through creating terrific employee or workforce
experiences.
Gardner: Tim, last word to you. How do you foresee over the next several years
technology evolving to support and engender the symphonic culture that Art just
described?
Minahan: We have gotten to the point where employees are asking for a simplification
of their environment, a unified access to everything, and to remove noise from their days
so they can do that meaningful, purposeful work.
But what’s exciting is that same platform can be enabled to elevate the skill sets of all
employees, giving them the right information, and the right task at the right time so they
can perform at their very best.
But what gets me very excited
about the future is the
technology and a lot of the new
thinking that’s going on. In the
next few years, we’re going to
see work models similar to the
example I shared about eBay. We will see change in ways we work that we haven’t see
in the past 100 years, where the lines between different functions and different
organizations begin to evaporate.
Instead we will have work models where companies are beginning to organize around
pools of talent, where they know who has the right skills and the right knowledge,
regardless if they are full-time employees or a contractor. Technology will pull them
together into workgroups no matter where they are in the world, to solve the given
problem or produce a given outcome, and then dissolve them very quickly again. So I
am very excited about what we are going to see in just the next five years ahead.
Gardner: I’m afraid we will have to leave it there. You have been listening to a
sponsored BriefingsDirect discussion on how business leaders can enhance and
optimize today’s employee experience to optimize the customer experience -- and by
extension, better support the success of the overall business.
And we have learned how those charting the next chapters of HR and IT are finding
increased common ground to significantly improve the modern employee experience.
So join me in extending a big thank you to our guests, Art Mazor, Principal and Global
Human Resources Transformation Practice Leader at Deloitte. Art, thank you so much.
Mazor: Thank you, and great to chat with you, Dana and Tim.
We will see change in ways we work that we
haven’t seen in the past 100 years, where
the lines between different functions and
different organizations begin to evaporate.

17. Page 17 of 17
Gardner: And we have also been here with Tim Minahan, Executive Vice President of
Strategy and Chief Marketing Officer at Citrix. Thank you, sir.
Minahan: Thank you, Dana, and thank you, Art. It’s been a great conversation.
Gardner: And a big thank you as well to our audience for joining this BriefingsDirect
intelligent workspaces interview. I’m Dana Gardner, Principal Analyst at Interarbor
Solutions, your host throughout this series of Citrix-sponsored BriefingsDirect
discussions. Thanks again for listening, and do come back next time.
Listen to the podcast. Find it on iTunes. Download the transcript. Sponsor: Citrix.
Transcript of a discussion on how those writing the next chapters of human resources and
information technology interactions are finding common ground to significantly improve the
modern employee experience. Copyright Interarbor Solutions, LLC, 2005-2019. All rights
reserved.
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