Episode 224 Snippets: Kyle Sheldon of Name & Number ⚽️

On episode 232 of the Digital and Social Media Sports
Podcast, Neil chatted with Kyle Sheldon, Founder and
CEO, Name & Number (soccer marketing and creative
agency). Kyle is a senior marketing and branding exec
with years of experience with MLS teams, NASCAR, and
more.
What follows is a collection of snippets from the podcast.
To hear the full interview and more, check out the podcast
on all podcast platforms and at www.dsmsports.net.
@njh287; www.dsmsports.net
Best Of The Digital and
Social Media Sports Podcast
Episode 232: Kyle Sheldon

Kyle’s Career Path
“I'll start by just saying I'm a lifelong soccer fan and
player. I played my whole childhood, three siblings who
all played; we all played in college at different levels. I
think I can best describe my collegiate career as
mediocre. I was a D3 benchwarmer…that gives you a
sense of my on-field prowess. But I've always loved this
sport and I was in high school when Major League
Soccer [MLS] started kind of in my high school and
college days I realized that this is something I might be
able to make a career out of.

“I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do going
into college. I was a comms and media studies
major and went to grad school to get my master's in
PR and that was kind of my path. I left Marquette
University my second semester of my last year with
just a couple months to go to take what I called my
initial dream job at DC United, [an] entry level
communications coordinator, making no money,
writing press releases, doing game notes and
setting up interviews for the players in the locker
room.

“It was a really great time to join that club. That was 2005 and they
had just won the MLS Cup. It was the height of Freddy Adu mania,
they had some really cool, legendary players, [like] Jaime Moreno and
Ben Olsen, so I felt really fortunate to be there. I spent eight years in
DC and was really, again, just fortunate to grow my career there.
“The nature of the league at that point was a bit of a startup mentality.
You know, it was only 10 years old and so you ended up wearing a lot
of hats. So I was able to take on a lot over the course of my years there,
eventually overseeing content and graphic design, all sort of areas of
marketing in addition to [communications]. So it was a really great
experience and, you know, you have limited resources, but you try to
make it work and creativity kind of wins the day in those scenarios.

“Then I spent some time at NASCAR, I oversaw social
media there for three years. It was a really intentional
step away from [soccer]. I knew I would come back to it
because it's my love and passion, but I wanted to test
myself in a space that I was really unfamiliar with.
Probably not advice I would give to every person who
interviews for a job, but I told them If you want to hire a
someone who understands NASCAR, do not hire me
because I've never watched a race the whole way
through. But I had a great experience there, learned a
ton. Social was really growing at that point in a
meaningful way.

“But then the Seattle Sounders called and offered
me a job to oversee their marketing, and I jumped
to that chance. So I spent a couple years there,
[and] made the move to the [Chicago] Fire and
spent three years overseeing marketing and
content and brand there, and have been consulting
this year and starting to put the wheels on what
will be the agency that you mentioned, Name &
Number…”

On social media and how MLS and its teams did coverage,
content, and PR as Kyle came up
“It’s been really fun to watch the transformation and evolution
over the years. My first ever internship was with the Minnesota
Thunder of the then USL A-League back in 2004, and I was a
communications intern and we were faxing box scores at that
time still. It's not even 20 years ago, which is pretty wild we were
faxing box scores to the local papers. And, you know, in my time
at DC United, when I started there, it was very much entry-level,
pounding the pavement, making phone calls to TV outlets and
newspapers and trying to garner coverage because it was the
only way you could get your message out beyond your website.

“It was sort of just a happy accident that I happened to be there as Facebook
was just starting to come online. Really, Twitter was kind of the accelerator, I
think, for connecting to fans directly. And we were in a place where we were
just able to test and learn and try to figure out what was or wasn't gonna work.
It was evident to those of us at the club pretty early on that Twitter was gonna
be a bit of a game changer for connecting to fans directly, to your point. So we
were on early and, again, testing and learning. Marketing was frankly a lot
easier prior to that. It was kind of paid media and earned media and not much
else. And now there are so many choices; there are so many ways to connect.
There are so many ways to communicate your brand and your message. But
that's also what makes it really fun is that there's no one size fits all plan. You
have to really be thoughtful about how and where you're connecting to folks.
“I feel fortunate I was able to at DC kind of take a lot of that on just naturally as
the club evolved and as we found ways to try to connect to fans. But it's a much
different place that's for sure.”

On the growing importance and currency of content
“I think in those early days I'm not sure we knew exactly what it
was going to be. It was just evident that you could connect and
tell your story directly. I'm guessing if I were to pull up old DC
United tweets, it'd probably be pretty cringy at this point. I'm
sure it was. You couldn't post photos when Twitter started,
right? It was just sort of text only. So it was very specific kind of
one to one communication. We were fortunate to have some —
we didn't have a lot of resources — but we were given resources
to go test and learn, and that's a credit to Kevin Payne, the
former President and CEO there, who really was trying to help
us figure out how to move things forward a little bit at that
time.

“We hired a video producer, I think we were the first MLS club to hire a
video producer. We hired a writer, one of the first clubs in the league to do
that. It was really starting to understand the ability to kind of tell your
own story directly. I actually think that there has been a bit of an over-
correction in some ways in that I think clubs, across sports not just soccer,
they tend to almost overemphasize their own channels. It's not to say you
shouldn't, clearly you should invest and put a ton of time and energy into
the content you're producing, it's a great sponsorship mechanism. But
people have sort of lost the art a little bit of driving earned media and the
amplification impact that can have.
“I do think teams have to be on guard against that, which is to say there's
still a lot of value in placing a story in the right spot in the right outlet at
the right time. So it's this balance of internal [and] external, what you
produce in-house versus when you bring on a partner to do it. And, again,
there's no one size fits it all, but it's fun to explore; it's what I really enjoy.”

Balancing telling your own story on your own platforms vs. empowering
others
“I think probably most people answer, you want both, right? You wanna
have great content on your own channels, you wanna have other people
covering you, you want influencers talking about you. And I also think
you're just in a space and time where you don't have a choice, right?
Whatever you put out into the world, people are going to take it and
they're gonna put their spin on it. They're gonna add their own images,
they're gonna add their own text. I mean, we're in such a sort of a meme
culture where if you put out something that resonates or connects or that
is a little bit wonky, then people are just gonna do whatever they want
with it. That can be very, very good, and sometimes it can be challenging.
But that's the world we live in and everybody's got a voice and an
opportunity on some platform, big or small, however it is, and you've gotta
kind of find the right way to navigate through that.”

On making the jump from overseeing social to becoming VP of Marketing
(with the Sounders)
“The jump from NASCAR to the Sounders was unique. I was fortunate in
DC to have a role where while I wasn't a VP of Marketing, I was able to
oversee a lot of the external facing departments, and so I was able to sort of
fail and fail fast and learn in DC. My perspective generally on social media
professionals if they aren't already, they're the future CMOs. Because it's a
space where you really, truly are connected, especially working for a team
or a club, right? You're connected to every area of the business. You're the
primary touch point for fans, for customers, and you have to have a little
understanding of everything, right? You have to have a little understanding
of of ticket offers and corporate partnerships and brand and
communication — you have to kind of understand and be able to touch all
of it and translate it both for your audience and then for your channel; and
the audience on each channel obviously could be very different.

“So I found the move to NASCAR for me and being solely
focused on social for those three year was incredibly
valuable because I got connection to every area of the
business and the experience of being able to be in the
room with Fortune 500, Fortune 100 companies helping
to translate for what just are largely older, sort of
disconnected CMOs, CFOs, CROs — trying to help them
understand the power of social and how to bring it to
life. It's not as simple as you might think. It's not just
could you tweet this for us? Which, you know, happens a
lot. It still happens. So that experience was invaluable.

“But the transition to the Sounders for me and moving into a VP of
Marketing role, I went from having seven or eight people under me at [DC
United], I had three direct reports at NASCAR, but all of a sudden I had
six or seven departments and more than 20 people on a team, so there was
a really big adjustment there for me. It was going from doing it all,
wearing every hat — you were doing, strategy, concept, planning, tactics,
and the execution in both my prior roles, [and] now you've got a bigger
team and you have to rely on other people to do the work. [That’s] the
reality of having to be a leader and a manager, it happens sort of as you
go. There's not a lot of training that happens for managers and for leaders,
right? Some people just have it. And, you know, I don't think I'm a bad
manager, but I had to learn a lot of lessons in terms of delegation, in
terms of setting people up for success, being prepared that someone might
hear, ‘Hey, this is the problem we're trying to solve and this is the answer I
think we should go forth with,’ and me saying, ‘That's not what I would
do.’

“I would say one of the things that I learned, and it took me about a year
at the Sounders, is that really great work becomes more possible when
you're able to unleash the talent and creativity of others. My job as a
leader — clearly I'm bringing particular experience and thoughts and ideas
to the table, creativity, etc. — but my job really is to ensure that the people
on the team and everyone that's there is to make sure they apply their
talent, their creativity, their thinking in the right way. How do I put up the
guardrails so that they're aimed at the right objectives, and then be a little
bit comfortable they might do it differently than you did, and that's okay?
And often, by the way, if you hire really well, you're gonna have people do
it better than you would've done it anyway, and you start to understand
that there really is sort of strength in numbers. So that transition with me
at the Sounders, it took me a good year to kind of figure that out and find
my space and be able to back away from some of the day-to-day work and
try to provide a little more flexibility for the team to go and do what they
did best.”

On developing fans of the team vs. just as much simply fans of the
sport of soccer
“I think the starting point as you think about sort of developing
fandom, and this has changed a lot in the almost 20 years I've been
working in the sport, but the starting point is that soccer in this
country, I don't think it's a stretch to say, by far it's the most
congested sport in the world, in this country. The competition for
time and eyeballs as it relates to soccer in the United States is
incredible. I mean, you can literally watch almost any league
around the world at any given time. So I think that's probably the
biggest shift that's happened over the last 10 to 15 years as you
think about kind of MLS and the domestic leagues is the availability
to watch anything.

“You're competing with eyeballs and time from every league, right? You can
watch MLS, LigaMX Premier League, Bundesliga, Serie A, La Liga, Ligue 1, to say
nothing of Europa League, Copa America, Copa Libertadores, US Open Cup, and
that's not even talking about national teams — World Cup, World Cup qualifying,
the Euros, Gold Cup, Nations League —I mean, the list goes on and on. Which is a
problem for my marriage because I watch a lot of soccer because I really love it.
Luckily, my two boys who are five and three also seem to really enjoy it.
“But just to come back to your question, I'm always a believer in a high tide raises
all boats. As soccer fandom generally increases in this country, which it continues
to do, is that you're more likely if you're an MLS club to connect to those folks.
But the nuance that exists within soccer in the States truly is unlike anywhere in
the world. And as I start Name & Number, the new agency, this is kind of the
entire point, really — the understanding needed and necessary to navigate the
really complicated, convoluted soccer fan base in this country is just very difficult
and there's a starting point of knowledge necessary to be able to do that.

“You could be at an MLS game sitting next to a Manchester United fan
who actually doesn't really care for the MLS product, but came with his
buddies; someone who's a die hard, let's say Atlanta United fan but
also supports FC Barcelona, but for whatever reason has a connection
to River Plate. I've seen data over my career that soccer fans in the US
are more likely to have multiple teams that they follow than just about
anywhere else in the world, which makes sense when you think about
it, right? It's a dynamic country with people from all different
backgrounds, and you've got really kind of first generation soccer fans
in a lot of cases who are discovering the sport and their attachment to a
particular team varies pretty wildly, right? It could be that they played
FIFA and they, for some reason they picked this team to play with in
FIFA. It could be that there was a particular player that they really
loved. It could be because a team is in their backyard. It could be the
values that a team kind of speaks out into the world.

“So it's a long-winded answer, but I think this is really the
crux of what's interesting about the sport at this moment in
time. And as we look towards 2026 and the interest that will
come in the coming years is how do you navigate through
that really kind of complicated, convoluted soccer fan base?
Because if you don't speak the language, and I mean that
literally and figuratively, if you don't speak the language, it is
really easy to have a misstep and to actually do some damage
to your credibility. I'm thinking particularly with sponsors; if
you don't sort of do it the right way. I saw a soccer
commercial a couple days ago where they referenced Neymar
scoring the most points [sic]. It's like, that's not what you say
in soccer, right? That's not the language that you use…”

What the ceiling for the development and growth of soccer
fandom in the US looks like
“I think there are different perspectives, right? If you work for an
MLS club, you're focused on creating fans of your team and of
your club. I'm someone who's always just loved the sport, and so
for me I'm a big believer in soccer as a connector, as a community
builder, and so I love seeing the sport grow on the whole. I think
you've seen, in MLS over the years, a lot of different things that
have been tried. When I came into the league what the teams
were doing were targeting families; you know, the old ‘soccer
mom’...You saw teams building their facilities, their stadiums in
the suburbs with tons of fields around them.

“That’s really evolved as you've seen other teams come into MLS. And I
think most importantly, Toronto FC in 2007, Seattle Sounders in 2009,
you started to see a different type of person attend those games and there
was a different connection in the city, in the community that just
indicated a different opportunity. I think those were really eye-opening
moments for people around the league, and a lot of teams are still frankly
trying to capture it.
“But the shift to starting the target, the young professional, the 18-34, the
person who is maybe equally interested in the experience as they were
the on-field product. Then as you sort of fast forward and you look at — I
think it's a more subtle shift, but you see Atlanta and Minnesota and
LAFC and more recently Austin FC have come into the league and these
teams are very culture-focused, they're value-focused, they're
community-focused.

“Richard Orosco, who's a friend of mine who's the Chief Brand Officer at
LAFC, he's been there from the start and he said something to me as they
were getting up and running and they were having some success. He said
‘Plug into culture before you plug into soccer.’ I think that's a good recipe
for anyone to do, right? You're a team and a club that's representative of
a very specific place, and that very specific place has cultural connection
points. It has its own creative, community, it has music and design and
just a lifestyle that's really specific to that space. My team in Seattle got
sick of me saying this, but one of the things I always call back to is ‘How
do we do something that's uniquely Seattle?’ There are three teams up in
the Pacific Northwest, [so] how do we do something that's unique to us?
“So that evolution of how teams have attempted to market themselves
and what teams are still trying to do, it continues. It’s a fascinating time
to be in the sport.”

About working toward the avidity and atmosphere of European club
soccer
“I think it's a question that MLS has been — I don't wanna say wrestling
with necessarily, but thinking a lot about over the last decade or so. The
reality is, and this comes from someone who loves MLS; I call myself an
MLS snob, I mean I really love the league, but the reality is it's not the
best in the world, and Americans are used to watching the best athletes
in the world, in their country, in their backyard. If you look at any of the
competitive sports domestically, NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL, WNBA, etc.,
they're the best in the world and [in soccer] the best players play in
Europe and they play in a couple different leagues. It's one of the things
that makes the sport fascinating. There isn't one league or one country
that owns all the best players, they play across the world.

“MLS has never really had the ability to say come watch the best
soccer players in the world. So, sort of to your points there, the
experience and the supporters experience in particular is the
differentiator for sports viewing or attendance in this country; to
your point, it just doesn't exist [in soccer]. College football probably
is the closest. But if you go to an Austin FC or an LAFC game,
Portland or Seattle — there's a lot of teams now across the league
who have this experience. You can see what happens in Cincinnati
and Charlotte. It's grown a lot over the last few years, but there's
nothing like [the European experience]. There's nothing like the 90
minutes of singing, chanting, drum beating, just raucous
atmosphere. For my money LAFC does have the best experience in
the league, and I've not been to every stadium, but I've been to a
bunch and they just go at it, man; it's incredible to watch.

“If you are an observer of human behavior and you go to
these games and you're watching someone and you just
have a sense maybe they're a more casual fan, their eyes
are on the supporters as much as they're on the field —
and that's both good and bad, right? There are pros and
cons to that. But to your question about where do you
focus your efforts — I think it has to start with growing
supporters culture because that's the differentiator. And
naturally, if you create something that is experiential,
that is raucous, that is interesting to watch, that is
enjoyable to participate in, then other people will come,
I think, because of that experience.

“And so much of marketing today and this is true in sports, but I
think it's true kind of across everywhere — it's about community
building and it's about creating a sense of belonging and it's
about really truly bringing people together. It doesn't always
have to be physical, but the coming together of people in a
stadium and watching and having a shared experience to
something on the field, there really isn't, for me, anything like it.
I'm not a gamer, so I can't speak to maybe what that experience
is like the way some others could, but I think ultimately that's
what you're selling and marketing. It's less so buy four tickets,
get two for free — that stuff doesn't work. The consumer's too
savvy and has too many other things taking up their time and
attention to really fall for standard marketing tactics.”

About the game presentation differences between US and Europe,
sports vs. entertainment gimmicks
“There really isn't a right or wrong answer, and the experience of
going to a minor league baseball game that might have 20 or 30
kind of gimmicks that happen during the course of the game can
also be really entertaining. You look at what the Savannah Bananas
have created down in Georgia, and it's just full-on entertainment to
the point where they've changed the rules of the game for
entertainment's sake. It's a really interesting little case study. I
don't know what its staying power is, but it'll be interesting to see
over the next five to 10 years if they can maintain the level and the
height of entertainment that they're operating at down there

“I just think in soccer, the game is built in such a way that it becomes
difficult to do those things, right? The structure of 45 minute halves
of continuous play, you really have, as I've overseen game
presentation over my career, you've got about 10 minutes before the
game starts when you've got engaged fans in their seats preparing to
watch the game. You've got 15 minutes or so at halftime, but just
about everybody goes to grab food or drink, so it's sort of limited the
impact you can have. Antd then you got about three minutes after the
game ends before people are on the concourses going to their cars. So
I think there's room, and it's kind of the great thing about America as
the melting pot for soccer is you've got all this collision of cultures
and backgrounds and experiences that kind of come from all over the
world, where I think it's the place to do some hings where you can
test and learn and see what works and see what resonates.

“I think you've seen across different MLS markets teams
have tried different things. Some of them might seem
gimmicky. I was talking to somebody the other day about
Atlanta United’s big hammer with the spike that they
[hammer] — it couldn't be more gimmicky, right? The guy
hits the thing with the hammer and then the spike about a
second later goes down a little bit. You look at what
Charlotte's done with their crown and their king's throne. A
lot of people would call those things gimmicky, but what's
important is does it communicate your brand in some way?
Do your fans and supporters connect to it? Do they believe
that it's something that speaks to them, speaks to their
market, speaks to the community that's been built there?

“So I don't think it's a right or wrong answer. I'm a
traditionalist myself in many ways. I love the
tradition of the sport, I tend to like kind of a
cleaner match day experience than some others
might. But I've evolved my thinking there too,
which is it's entertainment. It's supposed to be fun.
So if you can find something that someone might
call a little bit gimmicky, but if your fans and
supporters like it and if it enhances their
experience at the stadium, then by all means go for
it.”

About building team brands and community efforts while
also promoting the games and highlights
“Clearly, it's imperative, right? Social is now so embedded
into most people's daily lives. It's pretty unusual [that]
someone doesn't scroll through Instagram or, or Twitter or
TikTok in a given day. So it's really important that you have a
really clear strategy in that space, of course, and recognizing
that each channel is a little bit different in what works on one
channel may not work on the other. I think you’re right that
MLS teams in particular probably spend more time and
energy on content kind of outside the lines, so to speak.

“In my experience, an incredible goal in MLS is
always gonna be one of your most viewed videos,
as opposed to the personality driven kind of player
fun video. But you really do have to do both. I's
been interesting to see how content consumption
has evolved. I mean, it's obvious at this point, but
people's attention spans are shorter. They're
flipping their thumb really fast past content that
doesn't grab [their attention[ in the first second or
two. So it's a difficult space to be in.

“My philosophy has always been everything's marketing
at some point, right? Everything's kind of brand. You're
always communicating something about your club or
your players or who you say you are, and just how it's
applied can vary. So whatever the intent you're
attempting to create something that ultimately
entertains and something that will grab attention and
something someone will be willing to watch, and you
have to be realistic that a deeper personal profile on a
player who is a spot starter is really just for your avid
fans. It's pretty unlikely that's gonna break through to a
more casual fan.

“I believe in ultimately kind of segmenting your fan
base in different ways so that you're creating
content for each. The number of entry points to
fandom is vast. There are a lot of ways people get
connected to a club and to an experience. You can't
do it all, especially in a league where there still are
limited resources. But to be thoughtful about that
and ultimately to ensure you have the right guiding
principles as to who you say you are and what your
brand is and what you stand for is really what's
most important.”

About focusing on short-term goals like ticket sales while also trying to
accomplish big picture brand building and regional/national/global fan-
building goals
“I'm a big believer that you can't be relevant globally or even nationally if
you aren't relevant locally. I think it has to start in your backyard. And
that comes back ultimately to the experience. If you're a soccer club, your
product is — this isn't quite true, but you'll understand the point that I'm
making — it's the game that you attend or it's the game you watch on TV.
Yes, there's a lot of other stuff around that core product, but your core
product is 22 guys running around trying to kick a ball into the back of
the net. And if you turn on a game and there's 3000 people in the
building and 20,000 empty seats, that is not dynamic, compelling,
interesting television, right? What you're seeing when you turn that on,
regardless of the sport, is oh, no one cares about this.

“So I think it's one of the reasons that TV ratings have
been a challenge for MLS over the years. It has
changed, it has evolved, their numbers are up really
significantly this year as they head towards their
Apple TV deal next year. But you've now got more
markets where it's clear the teams are relevant and the
fan bases are into it, and they're sold out and they're
jumping and bumping. So, to answer your question, I
think it's almost kind of comical how many MLS
teams over the years have said, ‘We wanna be a global
brand. We wanna be an international brand.’

“I think the starting point has to be hyper-local. It
comes back to how do you plug into civic pride? How do
you plug into the local culture? How do you plug into
the local creative community? What's the hole-in-the-
wall taco joint down the street that everybody, if you're
in the neighborhood, knows? How do you connect to
them? Who are the up-and-coming musicians that are
playing the pubs and the bars in the market? Who are
your local muralists and your creatives, and how do you
connect to culture in such a way that it communicates
‘We know this place and we are a part of this place?’

On whether MLS clubs should be shit-talking and amplifying or creating drama on
social
“Yeah, my thinking's evolved a lot on this over the years. I think it is because of my
traditional PR background I was more kind of buttoned up and in-line early in my
career and have worked with people who've pushed the boundaries a little bit and
that's always a good push and pull. I think the starting point for the question is who
do you say you are? What is your brand?
What sort of ethos are you putting out into the world? I think a little good old-
fashioned banter is a lot of fun. There's always a line that can be crossed, and I think
teams have crossed the line.
“For many years people pointed to the LA Kings and said ‘That's what we wanna be.’
And I think that what gets missed sometimes is if you're all snark all the time, or if
that's your thing, then it can be difficult to create a community, cultural, values-based
brand because you just become known as the team that dunks on people, to use your
language.

“I'll give you one example in MLS, which I think the folks in at Charlotte
FC have done a really nice job with kind of finding the right line where
every time they've beaten a team, they typically have a graphic that is
something specific to the team. I think when they beat Red Bull, they
had a crushed Red Bull can, as an example. It's simple. It's one post, it's
a really clean design, it's white background with a really simple element
at the center that just kind of says, ‘Hey, we beat you.’ And it's fun.
“So I think teams have to find their voice first. The exercise should not
be, ‘Are we snarky?’ The exercise should be, ‘What is our brand? What
are our values? What sort of personality do we want to put out in the
world across our channels?’ But the short answer is I think there's
always room for little bit of fun and a little bit of poking of your
opponent.”

About the Chicago Fire’s rebranding and re-rebranding
“Well, I think we were able to execute a really well-
constructed rebrand because we executed one that was
not well constructed a year and a half prior. For those
that aren't familiar, you can Google ‘Chicago Fire
rebrand’ [and that will] will bring it up. You know, I
joined the club at a time when they were in the process of
starting to think about a rebrand. We don’t need to spend
a lot of time on the failures of the first rebrand, but the
premise was really, I think, wrong in that the starting
point was, ‘Hey, let's treat this like an expansion team.’

“At that time, the team was playing out in the suburbs. They were moving back
to Soldier Field in downtown. They had a number of years where they hadn't
been successful. The fan base had eroded for a variety of reasons, including on-
field performance. And so the idea was let's recapture the imagination of
Chicago with a new identity. That in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad starting
point, but I think you had this collision of strategies that were taking place and
that first rebrand was done in a way where it was kind of a more traditional
rebrand that you would've seen. It was largely done behind closed doors; not in
a malicious way, it's just how you used to do rebrands is you sort of do it behind
closed doors and you do a big reveal. There was fan engagement, but it was
limited. The fans weren't driving the actual work fully and completely. There
was discussion about changing the name; at that time the club was going
through an ownership change, so you just had kind of a natural disconnect as to
what is this thing and what will it be in the future. At one point the idea was to
not only change the logo, but to change the name of the club as well. Ultimately
there was an owner who was really focused on wanting to keep the name at
minimum. So you ended up with a totally new mark, but the same name.

“Ultimately it just didn't connect with fans. What was visually
put in front of fans to say ‘This is your. This is now what
represents you.’ It ultimately was just a miss. There's no other
way to put it, it was a failure. We were fortunate and I was
fortunate in that we had an owner in Joe Mansueto who very
quickly understood the need to kind of remedy the situation.
So I was fortunately in a position where I could go to him with
a plan to redo the rebrand. Rebrand the rebrand, if you will. I
said ‘We have to take the exact opposite approach or it won't
work.’ And by the way, I think this is true for any rebrand. If
you're an existing brand in any industry, you have people who
care about you, you have stakeholders who connect with your
visual identity, your voice, the whole picture.

“So with the help of, obviously a great team, we said, ‘Our
guiding principles should be [that] this is the most open and
transparent rebrand in pro sports history.’ We wanna be able
to have anyone and everyone who wants to lend their voice to
this project to do so. So we provided updates the whole way
through. It wasn't this idea of, ‘Hey, we're gonna go do this
thing. We're gonna go behind closed doors and you'll hear
from us in 12 to 18 months. It was we're starting today. We
hired Matt Wolff, who for my money is the best crest designer
maybe in the world. He's done incredible work, including
LAFC and NYCFC, he's an incredible designer. So he came on
board and I said ‘Matt, we're gonna make your job really hard,
man. You're gonna have thousands of creative directors.’

“We started with an open survey, we ran focus groups, we ran one-
on-one interviews, and there was a dialogue the whole way through.
Our job was to take everything we heard and ultimately synthesize it
in such a way that it was actionable for Matt to go and design a
really beautiful crest. It was a combination of pulling from your rich
history, by the way, of a club in the Fire who'd won multiple
championships, had incredible iconic players, there was a lot of
history there that was meaningful. And a name that's inspired by the
origin story of the city in many ways, as you think about the great
Chicago fire that happened 150 years ago. So the exercise was really,
‘How do we listen to our community? How do we create dialogue
and conversation? How do we ultimately create attachment to the
club such that at the end of this thing we put something up on the
screen that hopefully people can be really excited about?’

“I think we achieved that. I mean, I'm obviously
biased, but I think Matt designed a beautiful
mark, but it really was only possible because
people participated, lent their voices, and we were
able to ultimately — you're never gonna please
everyone of course, some people just wanted to go
back to the old mark — but ultimately we were
able to create something that felt like the club that
they knew and that's the most important thing.”

About club affiliations with MLS and European club teams
“It's a good question. You've seen it happen over the years, right? I mean back in the
early 2000s, teams were doing some of these partnerships creating sister clubs. I think
the challenge is there tends to be a big announcement and then you don't really see or
hear much activity after that. Sort of just it's this idea that we're gonna share business
practices and we're gonna potentially loan players and then you don't really hear about
it again. I think that I'm a little bit of a broken record at this point, I think, but the
starting point is not which is the best club for us to partner with just from a sheer optic
standpoint, but to come back to — if you're a European club, as an example, and you're
looking at MLS and you're saying ‘We wanna have a presence in the States in some
way,’ and I'm certainly thinking a lot about this with the new agency Name & Number,
the question isn’t just can we just pick one? It's which of those clubs represents our
values in a similar fashion? Which one has a brand or what is the connection? There
has to be some natural connection. Otherwise, I don't think there's a lot of value in
doing it. But because the US soccer fan is still relatively young, as you think about kind
of the generational fandom, there's real opportunity, I think, for teams abroad to have
presence in a particular market if they activate it the right way.

“That could be something as simple as a very cool
merchandise collaboration. It could be playing a
friendly against that team and then having presence in
the actual market for a period of time. There's a
number of tactics I think [to] bring that partnership to
life, I just don't think many teams have done that to
date. I think it's, again, an announcement. It sounds
really good. Maybe some of the executive levels
talking to their colleague across the pond a couple
times a year, but it doesn't really seem to be positively
impacting fan experience in a way that's meaningful.

“The starting point for me is always how, whether
you're a club or a brand who is activating in the
sport, is how are you adding value to the fan
experience? What are you doing to enhance that
experience? And this is something, in a slightly
different way, Angel City has really done an
incredible job of, is that every single one of their
partnerships is somehow positively impacting the
Los Angeles community, right? Every single
partnership is doing something in LA for the good
of the community.

“I think it's kind of that ethos, right? So they're battling
food security with DoorDash, they're battling access to
transportation with Chevrolet. And if there's a club
abroad who has that same ethos, man, wouldn't that be a
cool partnership to bring those two clubs together and
figure out how to speak to it on a grander scale and drive
more impact? So I do think there's a way to do it. I don't
know that many are doing it well at the moment, and
there's gonna be meaningfully more opportunity for it
over the next four years as we point towards 2026 and
the entire world's eyes on North America for what will be
the biggest sporting event in the history of the world.”

What was Kyle Sheldon like as a soccer player [he played in
college]?
“I would say I wasn't that good. But I really did love it. I
played center [midfield], I played a lot outside mid. I was
fast, I could get up and down the field. I wasn't the most
dynamic player. I will tell you though, I'm in the record books
at St. Olaf College, the D3 school I played at, because I led the
team in assists my senior year with three, which gives you a
sense of we didn't score many goals. By the way, two of those
came in the last game of the year, which meant I had one
assist over like 20 games, two in the final game. You can look
me up next time you go to Northfield, Minnesota.”

The most memorable initiative or campaign from Kyle’s
time at NASCAR
“We had a lot of fun at NASCAR. I oversaw social media,
and we were able to test and explore a lot. One of my
favorite campaigns was I was there in 2015 when
NASCAR started what they called NASCAR Throwback.
It's a sport that has history, with a lot of older drivers
and the cars that have changed and the paint schemes
that have changed. So when NASCAR launched that they
did it at Darlington Raceway, kind of an old race track,
we said ‘Let's kind of do all of it throwback.’

“We bought a bunch of Polaroid cameras and we
posted every photo as a Polaroid or as a picture of a
Polaroid. We found an app for our phones that
made the footage look like 8mm photos. We wanted
everything to have a feel of being kind of
throwback. We would type out tweets on a
typewriter and then take a photo of those. So it was
really kind of a fun one. It got picked up [in] some
media coverage. It doesn't sound that interesting
today because I think people do things way more
interesting. But at the time it was a really fun one.”

Who has been or is the most important American
soccer player of our lifetime and why?
“It's a really challenging question to answer. I'm
gonna probably hedge a little bit because I have a few
names that pop into my head. I'll list them off
quickly. I mean, I think Landon Donovan for all that
he accomplished, in particular at the US Men's
national team level; I mean, his goal against Algeria
in the 2010 World Cup remains one of my favorite
sporting moments of all time.

“I always really loved watching Clint Dempsey
play as he was coming up, and I think he's a really
interesting case for an example of what American
player can be, and you've seen it with the modern
day players. But he played in MLS with the [New
England] Revolution, and went over to Fulham in
England, went to a big club on Tottenham, came
back to the Sounders, scored in three straight
World Cups. He's got an attitude and swagger that
people love…

“Then I'll throw one more name out, Claudio Reyna,
who's maybe a little less known, but he's the GM now at
Austin FC. He was one of the first players that really
established themselves in Europe. He played for Rangers
in Scotland, Sunderland, Man City, and then eventually
came back to the New York Red Bulls; [he] also played in
Three World Cups.
“Those players all had impact at the MLS level that
impact globally, and they had impact at the World
Cup…Those three I think are probably three of the most
impactful in our lifetime.”

The best home atmosphere in Major League Soccer
“It's actually a hard one to answer today, because I think you've seen the
growth of interest and relevance across MLS. There are so many teams
now that have great fan experiences, great supporter sections. You know, I
mentioned them earlier, I think LAFC and Austin FC have two of the best.
I've seen both of them in person, so I can speak to it. I've not been to every
market; I haven't yet been to Cincinnati and seen what they're doing, I've
not been to Charlotte, so I reserve the right to change my mind.
“But what those supporters groups do in being full-throated and raucous
and jumping for the full game. LAFC probably takes the edge just a bit
because those guys get in an hour before the game starts, so they're going
for two and a half hours. It's really special what they've built there. So,
LAFC quickly followed behind by Austin in my experience.”

The most memorable or charismatic player that Kyle
has worked with in his career
“The player that immediately jumps to mind, and if
he eventually listens to this it won't surprise him, is
Bobby Boswell, who was a defender for DC United
when I was there. He actually came into the league
the same year I did. We both started there in 2005,
and Bobby is an absolute nut. We sort of found in
each other people who were willing to kind of test
and try things.

“After his first year, he was an undrafted rookie out of Florida
International; he ended up starting 30 games or so his rookie year kind
of out of nowhere. He ended up winning Defender of Year the next
year. But we started BobbyBoswell.com, it was the first player blog in
MLS. We did video segments. We put him up for Cosmopolitan
Bachelor of the Year one year. He actually won, but couldn't participate
because of the schedule with DC United…He was making, you know,
$32,000 a year as a rookie and he threw a party…David Beckham's
first-ever game was in DC in 2006 and Bobby decides he's gonna throw
a party. The guy's making no money; and it became this thing that was
written up in all the papers as the must-go-to Beckham party. And the
poor kid I think maxed out his credit card paying for drinks. But it's
just who he was — great personality, always up for a lot of fun. I saw
him at MLS All-Star this past year in Minnesota and it was good to
reconnect. He's a good one.” =

Kyle’s favorite mantra, tip, or guiding principle as a marketer
“I probably said it over the course of the interview, I'll try to be
succinct, which is, I think the starting point is you want to add value
for your fan or your follower. You wanna improve or enhance every
experience, you wanna entertain and connected to that is everything
we talked about related to creating a sense of community and a
sense of belonging. Sports really is about connecting people at the
end of the day and giving people something to care about, so I think
if you're focused on how you can add value to someone's experience
— and that's sporting experience, life experience, connectedness to
other people — I think there are a lot of ways to do that. There are a
lot of tactics to do that, but if you can come back to that as a bit of a
guiding principle, then you're probably in a pretty good spot.”

The coolest soccer stadium that Kyle has ever been to a game at, and
what's the on Kyle’s bucket list to see a game
“The first ever game I saw abroad is the answer to the question. It was
Craven Cottage in London, which is Fulham FC’s home ground. It's this
incredible little stadium that's kind of tucked into the neighborhood. And
at the time I was there, I was in high school, Eddie Lewis, who's a former
US Men's national team player and also played MLS, was there. And they
obviously have had a history of American players including Clint
Dempsey, Brian McBride, Eddie Johnson, Casey Keller, Carl Bocanegra—
I mean, the list goes on.
“But that experience of being at Craving Cottage at what felt like a really
true longstanding traditional club in Fulham was really special. And I
was there with my family, so it was particularly a really fun day.

“The second part of your question, I think seeing
the Yellow Wall at Borussia Dortmund is on the
bucket list. Not that I'm a big Borussia Dortmund
fan or necessarily a big Liverpool fan, but going to
Anfield at some point, I'd love to just experience
the Kop and see that in person. So, Yellow Wall at
Borussia Dortmund, and then Anfield in
Liverpool.”

The best meal to get in Chicago and where to
get it
“Man, I think that you'd expect folks maybe to
give a deep dish pizza answer, [but] I'm gonna
go in a different direction, and I'm going there
tomorrow, which is why it's top of mind —
there's a place called Johnnie’s Beef, and it is a
no-frills hot dog, sausage, beef sandwich stand
in the western suburbs. They've got this
incredible Italian ice. If you've watched the
show, The Bear on FX — it's a great show that
was shot in Chicago about a beef sandwich
shop —you can get a great meal for $8-10 and
the food's really good and it just kind of has
that nice kind of hometown Chicago feel to it.”

The sports team outside of MLS and any current clients
whose marketing Kyle most admires and why
“Two come to mind. One is the Carolina Panthers. I think
they've really done a really interesting job with their brand
over the last few years. I find them as a team that's not afraid
to try things. They're embracing some of the trends and some
of the memeification, but they're doing it in a way that does
fit their brand and their voice. I think they have a very
distinct voice. They push the boundaries on content in a way I
think is really compelling, so I've been following them for a
while and been very impressed with what they've done over
the last few years.

“And then I'll mention a team in my backyard who I think is
one of the best-marketed teams in sports, which is the
Chicago Bulls. Obviously an iconic brand, very well known
globally, but they do an incredible job. Thinking about all the
things we've talked about today, I mean, plugging into
culture and into art, fashion, design — they're doing really
cool custom merch drops on their mobile app. Their VP of
Marketing is a guy named Dan Moriarty, who's an
Englishman, who's a soccer fan as well, and a really, smart
forward-thinking guy. So I've been really impressed with
what they've done over the years. And if you don't know their
stuff, I'd encourage folks to check out their social handles
because they are doing a great job.”

The winner of the 2022 FIFA Men's World Cup will be
__________
“I think it's very difficult to predict and it is hard to pick
against someone like Brazil or Argentina, but I'm gonna
go with my heart and say, Argentina. I think it'd be
amazing to see Messi win it near the end of his career.
He’s been such a dynamic player, obviously; for my
money I think he's the best player of all time. So the
idea of him bringing a World Cup title back to Argentina
would be pretty cool. So I'm gonna say Argentina.”

Kyle’s Social Media All-Star to Follow
“One is a young one I've gotten connected to this year named
Caitlin Stevens, who spent some time in her career at Atlanta
United. She's like me, someone who just loves and consumes the
sport of soccer. She and her husband travel the world now. She's
freelancing and consulting, not exclusively in soccer, but in a lot
of soccer, and she's just doing some really interesting things on
TikTok. She’s got a travel space that she does as herself, as Caitlin
Stevens. But then she has a number of clients that she's activating
across social. She's got a really good feel, I think, for what works
on TikTok in particular. Someone that I'm hoping I can work with
at the new agency with Name & Number. She's a good one.

“Then I'll mention Jack Appleby of Morning Brew (@jappleby).
He's someone that a lot of people that are in this space might
already know, but he's been at Morning Brew now for some
number of months. He's worked with some massive big brands
over his career, and I like Jack because he's just very generous in
sharing his thoughts and how he views the world, his reactions
to what he's seeing. He does a lot of real-time coverage of what's
happening in the marketing space, not specific to sports
necessarily, but he's an NBA guy so he does a lot on the NBA. He
does great case studies. He's got a newsletter now with Morning
Brew called Future Social, which is a must-read for my money.
He's one of those follows that you just know he's gonna add
value and teach you something just about every week.”

Where to find Kyle and Name & Number on
digital/social
Find Name & Number at NameAndNumber.com
and on Twitter and LinkedIn
Kyle is @KyleSheldon on Twitter and LinkedIn

Thanks again to Kyle for being so generous
with his time to share his knowledge,
experience, and expertise with me!
For more content and episodes, subscribe to
the podcast, follow me on LinkedIn and on
Twitter @njh287, and visit
www.dsmsports.net.
@njh287; www.dsmsports.net

Episode 224 Snippets: Kyle Sheldon of Name & Number ⚽️

More Related Content

Similar to Episode 224 Snippets: Kyle Sheldon of Name & Number ⚽️

More from Neil Horowitz

Recently uploaded

Episode 224 Snippets: Kyle Sheldon of Name & Number ⚽️