The document discusses the democratic shortcomings of the U.S. Constitution as originally written in 1788, particularly regarding issues like slavery, lack of representation, and the protection of individual freedoms. It emphasizes that amendments over time have made the Constitution more democratic by extending rights to all races and sexes. The discussion reflects on the evolving nature of democracy in the U.S. and the importance of ongoing conversations about equality and representation.

1. This is a graded discussion: 30 points possible
due -
Discussion 2 (Complete by
Sunday, Nov. 6)
20 20
This discussion aligns with Learning Outcomes 1, 2, and 4
Democracy, at its core, is centered on the idea that individuals
can, in fact,
rule themselves. This concept is enshrined in the U.S.
Constitution as we
know it today. However, early on the American Constitution
was not a sound,
democratic document. In particular, the idea of popular
sovereignty; that is,
the will of the people, was not extended to everyone. For
example, as you
read this week, the framers, for a time, chose to retain slavery
in the new
Republic. In addition to slavery, in what other areas was the

2. Constitution of
1788 less than democratic? In what ways has the Constitution,
since then,
become more democratic? Be sure to provide examples to
support your
claims.
Submission
Our discussions are a valuable opportunity to have thoughtful
conversations
regarding a specific topic. You are required to provide a
comprehensive
initial post with 3-4 well-developed paragraphs that include a
topic
sentence and at least 3-5 supporting sentences with additional
details,
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Search entries or author
explanations, and examples. In addition, you are required to
respond

3. substantively to the initial posts of at least two other classmates
on two
different days. All posts should be reflective and well written,
meaning free
of errors in grammar, sentence structure, and other mechanics.
Grading
This discussion is worth 30 points toward your final grade and
will be
graded using the Discussion Rubric. Please use it as a guide
toward
successful completion of this discussion. For information on
how to view the
rubric, refer to this Canvas Community Guide
(https://community.canvaslms.com/docs/DOC-10577-
4212540120) .
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
Sarkis Boyajian
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
Tuesday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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4. The Constitution of 1788 lacked democracy because it did not
protect
the people’s beliefs. Religion influences people’s morality. And
morality is
a key component of personal convictions. People’s convictions
influence
how they want to be governed and how they vote. The first
amendment to
the Constitution provided protection to the people’s beliefs by
restricting
Congress from making laws respective to an establishment of
religion or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
The Constitution of 1788 lacked democracy because it did not
protect
the people’s expression. Speech is the cornerstone of sharing
thoughts
and ideas. The sharing of thoughts and ideas influences people’s
opinions. People’s opinions influence how they want to be
governed and

5. how they vote. The first amendment to the Constitution
provided
protection to people’s expression by restricting Congress from
making
laws respective to abridging the freedom of speech.
The Constitution of 1788 lacked democracy because not
everyone
subject to it had representation. The 1700s constitution was the
law of
the land. But it wasn’t until the 1800s that voting rights were
extended to
all races. And it wasn’t until the 1900s that voting rights were
extended
to all sexes. The fifteenth and nineteenth amendments to the
constitution
extended the right of representation to everyone.
References:
The Bill of Rights: What Does it Say?. (2022). Retrieved from
archives.gov:
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights/what-
does-it-say
(https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights/what-
does-it-say)
The Constitution: Amendments 11-27. (2022). Retrieved from

6. archives.gov: https://www.archives.gov/founding-
docs/amendments-11-
27 (https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/amendments-11-
27)
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(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Rosita Yaworskir
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Tuesday
Sarkis, I think you are on the right path when you say, Religion
influences people’s morality. And morality is a key component
of
personal convictions. People’s convictions influence how they
want to
be governed and how they vote. You were also on the right path
when
you wrote Speech is the cornerstone of sharing thoughts and
ideas.
The sharing of thoughts and ideas influences people’s opinions.

7. People’s opinions influence how they want to be governed and
how
they vote. However, the constitution, when it was written was
attempting to join essentially 13 separate countries under one
umbrella government with very limited powers.
WhiteHouse.Gov
shares, "A chief aim of the Constitution as drafted by the
Convention
was to create a government with enough power to act on a
national
level, but without so much power that fundamental rights would
be at
risk" (para. 3). The Constitution did the job it was meant to do
at a
time it was needed. I don't think it "lacked democracy",
especially
since the word democracy never appears in it. It brought 13
very
different view points into one cohesive but on-edge country.
The
amendments, especially the Bill of Rights, helped move the
country
forward but the point of the constitution was to be minimal
while

8. providing form while allowing each state its own rights to
govern their
own people.
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References
The United States Government. (2021, January 20). The
Constitution.
The White House. Retrieved November 1, 2022, from
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-
government/the-
constitution/#:~:text=the%20United%20States.-
,The%20Constitutio
nal%20Convention,rights%20would%20be%20at%20risk.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)
Amanda Kimball
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)

9. Tuesday
Sarkis, I agree that religion influences moral and moral
influences
how citizens want to be governed, how they want to live and
they will
vote accordingly. The Constitution seems well thought out,
however,
how did so many injustices pass through? While I am grateful
for the
amendments that provide freedoms and rights, I am still so very
perplexed how the abolishment of slavery was 13th on the list
of
amendments. To me it seems like one of the most basic
injustices of
the Constitution as originally written. How do 2 different times
think
so differently if we're all human?
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/1404)
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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10. Christine Hansen
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/1404)
Tuesday
Sarkis,
Freedom of religion is one of the key protections in the
Constitution.
It's so important that this was added. On the world stage, we
see any
number of countries that don't have our protections. In China,
the
Uyghurs have their DNA and blood taken, their fingerprints
taken,
their eyes scanned, and have barcodes put on their front doors
to
monitor them.
In Iran, women are being killed for protesting religious head
coverings.
Dr. Hansen

11. (https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)
Larita Miggins (She/Her)
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)
Yesterday
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Hello Sarkis,
I totally agree with the lack of representation and freedoms.
Being
that slavery was part of the compromises in this document, I
believe
the lack of inclusion was not just purposeful. Without the right
of all
voices then there was no debating the withheld freedoms. As
you
pointed out the Amendments to our constitution granted voting
rights
which subsequently granted the freedom to heard

12. (https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)
Calvin Oglesby
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)
Yesterday
Sarkis,
I don't think that it lacked, "Democracy". I think much of it
was open-
ended and allowed for a point of reference to be elaborated on.
As
it's the foundational document for a government all roads lead
to it.
The Constitution is that fundamental and principal instrument
that
all existent interpretations within our political system is based
upon;
and, I consider that process to be, 'democratic', as it allows
something for constantly evolving specific Federal and State
rules
[and procedures] to be built upon. I think that if the
Constitution was

13. more specific that it would lack that inherent ability to be
'democratic'.
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 7 of 29
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Rosita Yaworskir
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Tuesday
The constitution, based on the discussion board scenario, was
not a
sound, democratic document. The document failed to secure
equal
rights for all citizens to include the retention of slavery in the
new
Republic. However, not all of the inhabitants of the United
States were
treated equally under the constitution. Since the constitution’s
inception,
there have been amendments to extend equality of freedom and
rights

14. beyond the original text.
The Constitution and the first 10 amendments, known as the Bill
of
Rights, did not specifically provide all people equal freedoms.
For
example, the constitution did not specifically allow for women
to own or
have property rights. The Bill of Rights, in the ninth
amendment, “The
Ninth Amendment states that Americans have other, unwritten
rights that
are not spelled out in the American constitution” (Hall, et. al.,
2022).
Women were not guaranteed property rights.
The constitution promoted democracy but when not attempting
to install
a democracy. Its purpose was to establish a Republic which is
was
meant to be of the people, by the people, for the people.
However, the
constitution, much like the ninth amendment, was not
attempting to set
all the rules, freedoms or even limitation on people. The
framers were

15. attempting to empower people with freedom while also limiting
the
federal government. The constitution is a Federal document
and the
framers were attempting to keep the federal government from
overstepping its purpose while allowing the states the freedom
to govern
themselves. Women not getting property rights, slavery and
other
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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themselves. Women not getting property rights, slavery and
other
examples of what the constitution failed to address, in many
ways, were
intentional. The framers were empowering each of its member
states as
much freedom to govern their constituents as possible. Again,
the state
governments were meant to be of the people, for the people, and
by the

16. people. Additionally, the states or original colonies were each
basically
countries of their own. In this perspective, these countries
joined a
union for limited privileges and protections. It could be
compared to
today’s European Union in which the member countries retain
their own
sovereignty while conceding on limited, common issues.
The constitution could have encroach a wider swath of rights
for
indigenous people, slaves and women however the framers
ceded federal
authority in order to secure a stronger and larger union of
states.
References
Daniel Hall, Simmons, G., Sullivan, M., Baker, M., Saez, A., &
Lara, M.
(2022, July 11). What enumerated and unenumerated rights does
an
American have? Constitution of the United States. Retrieved
October 31,
2022, from https://constitutionus.com/constitution/rights/ what-

17. enumerated-and-unenumerated-rights-does-an-american-
have/#:~:text=
While%20unenumerated%20rights%20include%20the,The%20ri
ght%2
0to%20bear%20arms.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
Sarkis Boyajian
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 9 of 29
Tuesday
Rosita, thank you for your perspective. And thank you for your
response to my post in this discussion. I will add that we must
remember what the founders were escaping from… a tyrannical
government that did not offer all of its people fair
representation.

18. Enshrining voting rights for all races and sexes was inevitable.
Unfortunately, it just took some time.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)
Amanda Kimball
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)
Tuesday
The first American political system known as the Articles of
Confederation
was established to ensure democracy and protection of the
newly formed
US’s citizens in 1777. After it became aware to American
citizens and the
U.S. government that the Articles of Confederation had
shortcomings,
inefficiencies and appeared to be unsustainable, particularly
after Shay’s
rebellion clearly demonstrated the weaknesses of the Articles of
Confederation, our Founding Fathers convened at a
Constitutional
Convention in 1787 initially meant to reform the Articles.
Rather, the

19. Articles were replaced with the U.S. Constitution we now know
today.
This Constitution guaranteed certain rights to be enforced
under a
democracy. Just as the Article of Confederation showed
inefficiencies,
through changes in society, public outcry, campaigns for change
and
through a democratic process of legislation, changes were made
to
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protect our citizens and country in more modern times and
gradually
provide more equal rights with Amendments such as the
abolishment of
slavery, the ability for women and minorities to vote, defining
what a
marriage is, etc.
Over 11,000 Amendments have been formally proposed to the
U.S.

20. Constitution, however, only 27 have been ratified. The first 10
of these
Amendments are known as the Bill of Rights. These
Amendments were
ratified to promote citizens rights as they were meant by the
U.S.
Constitution. Times and society changes. One century does not
face the
same challenges as other centuries and evolution of our society
is
constantly demanding change to support the popular belief of
the people
such as gay rights and abortion rights. The Constitution initially
supported
slavery. This is a perfect example of how society evolves. I
can't imagine a
single person in our era that would ever think this would be ok.
It’s
absolutely insane to think that anyone ever did or why any
justification for
such a practice was ever accepted. This example alone supports
the need
for such amendments to the governing Constitution.
Changes in the definition of marriage, the abolishment of

21. slavery, equal
voting rights, trial by jury rights and fair state representation all
show how
the Constitution has become more democratic over time. Change
is slow
but through the democratic process, the Constitution is slowly
evolving to
support the modern ideas of the democracy.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
Sarkis Boyajian
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135004)
Tuesday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 11 of 29
Amanda, great post. And thank you for your response to my
post in
this discussion. Your post got me wondering so I did some
searching.
Apparently, depending on how you define slavery, it still exists

22. in the
form of forced labor, forced marriage, and commercial
exploitation.
This affects approximately 50 million people worldwide!
Reference:
What is Modern Slavery. (2022). Retrieved from
antislavery.org:
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery
(https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/modern-slavery)
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134038)
Kiyana Douglas
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134038)
Wednesday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 12 of 29
Written in 1787, ratified in 1788, and in operation since 1789,
the united
states constitution is the world's longest surviving written
charter of

23. government. It's first three words- "We The People"- affirm that
the
government of the United States exists to serve its citizens. The
supremacy of the people through their elected representatives is
recognized in Article 1, which creates a Congress consisting of
a senate
and a house of representatives. The positioning of congress at
the
beginning of the constitution affirms its status as the "First
Branch" of
the federal government.
The constitution assigned
to
congress responsibility for organizing the executive and judicial
branches, raising revenue, declaring war, and making all laws
necessary
for executing these powers. The president is permitted to veto
specific
legislative acts, but congress has the authority to override
presidential
vetoes by two-thirds majorities of both houses. The constitution
also

24. provides that the senate advise and consent on key executive
and
judicial appointments and on the approval for ratification of
treaties.
For over two centuries the constitution has remained in
force
because its framers successfully separated and balanced
government
powers to safe guard the interests of majority rule and minority
rights, of
liberty and equality, and of the federal and state governments.
More a
concise statement of national principles than a detailed plan of
government operation, the constitution has evolved to meet the
changing
needs of a modern society profoundly different from the
eighteenth
century world in which its creators lived. to date, the
constitution has
been amended 27 times, most recently in 1992. The first ten
amendments constitute the bill of rights.
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25. (https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)
Calvin Oglesby
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)
Wednesday
I believe that the U.S. Constitution was designed to be and
always
remain Democratic. The Constitution being described as the
document
that, "defines the fundamental law of the U.S. federal
government, setting
forth the three principal branches of the federal government and
outlining their jurisdictions" (U.S. Senate, 2022). The word
"jurisdiction",
comes from the Latin 'iūs', meaning "law", and 'dīcō', meaning,
"to
declare" (Wiktionary). The word 'diction', further is described
as, "the
choice and use of words and phrases in speech or writing"
(Dictionary.com). It may be understood that in a sense
jurisdiction, or

26. the Rule of Law are the composites of the words that form the
documents
which outline law[s] to then be applied and interpreted. Our
jurisdiction
may then be considered in this context as the English Language,
and as
there is no 'official language of the U.S.' most legal documents
are
prepared in English. English is also the official language of the
State of
Florida (Fla. Constitution, Art. 2, Sec. 9(a), 1968).
In interpreting and contemplating the wording of the United
States
Constitution, the one word which stands out to me above all
other words
is the word "shall". The word "shall" is riddled almost through
every single
paragraph of the Constitution; and, of the original Constitution,
the only
section void of this word appears to be the Preamble which
professes to,
"secure the Blessings of Liberty". Within the Bill of Rights
[the first ten

27. Amendments], the only section which does not include the
word, "shall",
is the Tenth Amendment which declares; "The powers not
delegated to
the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the
States,
are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people" (U.S.
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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Constitution, 1787). I believe that the exclusion of the word
'shall' in
these two sections is key to the insight of the Framers of the
Constitution. The latter describing in essence that whatever is
not
described in law is left to the Sovereignty of States and
ultimately
individuals, allowing the law to maintain its fluidity and be
established
throughout the course of time.
One interesting thing to me about the word, "shall", [as it's not
a word
that is commonly used in our language today] is its apparent

28. common
misconception to mean, "must", or to be a mandatory command.
In
actuality, the word, 'shall', could mean many things: "may,
might, or must",
"maybe or maybe not", and/or, "should or should not", and it
can even be
a hybrid word (J.D. Supra, 2021). It's a word that denotes
choice and
permits discretion which allows for law to shape. For instance,
the
Freedom of Speech Clause of the First Amendment; "Congress
shall
make no law...abridging the freedom of speech, or the press", is
more
clearly described by the State of Florida in its Constitution;
"Every person
may speak, write and publish sentiments on all subjects but
shall be
responsible for the abuse of that right. No law shall be passed
to restrain
or abridge the liberty of speech or of the press" (Fla.
Constitution, Art. 1,
Sec. 4, 1968), and in accord with the Federal Law, Florida goes

29. further in
expressing that there are some forms of expression that
essentially aren't
[or may not be at some time in the future] appropriate; and I
believe
most people can agree that is true.
In consideration of the aforementioned, the First Amendment of
the
Constitution as it applies here could then be interpreted as;
"[There]
should be no law abridging the freedom of speech or the press,
and
every person may speak, write and publish sentiments on all
subjects but
should be responsible for the abuse of the right", i.e. there
exists
[possible] consequences to [abuse of] this right. Another
example would
be the Second Amendment which reads: "...the right of the
people to keep
and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". I also believe that most
people
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 15 of 29

30. and bear Arms, shall not be infringed". I also believe that most
people
would agree that there are a number of hypothetical [and real]
situations
where it's probably not in the best interests of the general public
[or
individuals] for certain individuals, or individuals [or groups]
under
certain circumstances to possess firearms [if that is what is
meant by the
word, "Arms"]. If the word, "must" was used in both of these
Amendments, things may be very different.
Taking into consideration the entire Constitution and shedding
light on
the word, "shall", I believe it is easy to ultimately understand
how this key
document was framed with a with a fluid capacity. This ability
allows it to
be affected by circumstance, and have its influence molded and
improved through [with] the course of time. The additional
incorporation

31. of common law judgments [and improved statutory law], the
applications
of both reason and general common sense; and a consideration
of the
ultimate will of individuals which compose the people, et
cetera, I believe
all clearly express that the fabric of the United States
Constitution was
set with a true sense of Democracy in mind...which all may or
might not
be possible without employment of the word, "Shall".
References
Constitution. U.S. Senate: Constitution. (2022, April 5).
Retrieved
November 2, 2022, from
https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Constitution.htm
Jurisdiction. Wiktionary. (n.d.). Retrieved November 2, 2022,
from
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jurisdiction
Dictionary.com. (n.d.). Diction definition & meaning.
Dictionary.com.
Retrieved November 2, 2022, from

32. https://www.dictionary.com/browse/diction
The Florida Senate. The Florida Constitution - The Florida
Senate. (1968).
Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 16 of 29
Edited by Calvin Oglesby
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735) on Nov 2
at 4:25pm
https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Constitution
National Archives and Records Administration. (n.d.). The
Constitution of
the United States (1787): A transcription. National Archives and
Records
Administration. Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript
Canceling the word "shall" in leases, contracts and legal forms.
JD Supra.
(2021). Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/canceling-the-word-shall-

33. in-leases-
3494337/
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Rosita Yaworskir
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/10700)
Wednesday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 17 of 29
Good post. I thought you break down of language was
important to
the topic. One part of the definition of shall you may have
overlooked
was inevitable. However, I don't really think the constitution
was
meant to be fluid and ever-changing but to be flexible enough to
cover the topics without having to be overly verbose. You
ended with
"I believe all clearly express that the fabric of the United States

34. Constitution was set with a true sense of Democracy in mind". I
agree but the constitution also clearly sets the standard for our
government to be a Republic which differs from a democracy.
The
word democracy never appears and the use of democracy in its
description would delineate from its language.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134301)
Tyler Fletcher
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134301)
Wednesday
When the framers drafted the constitution you can see they had
an idea
of democracy, But they took that idea of democracy and used it
to only
benefit the rich elite white man. I think as a whole the idea of
democracy was their intention. After freeing themselves of a
tyranny
government the framers knew they wanted to create a a
governing body
that allowed "the people" to control it. "the people" being the

35. group who
drafted the constitution. It's hard to consider for a lot of people
because
the majority population can see the bill of rights for what it
was.
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 18 of 29
The hypocrisy alone in the Second Amendment "the right to
bear arms"
speaks volumes. The Second Amendment states" “A well
regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right
of the
people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” but
slaves in some
states couldn't even own a gun. Other state laws that were put
in place
said slaves couldn't carry or be around a gun after 9 o clock at
night. To
me that isn't democracy that is just bending a rule to benefit
another
group of people, all because that group of people were scared of

36. slave
insurrections.
The Constitution has changed quite a bit since 1778 for
example the
24th amendment. The 24th amendment states "The right of
citizens of
the United States to vote in any primary or other election for
President or
Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or
for Senator
or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged
by the
United States or any State by reason of failure to pay poll tax or
other
tax.". Basically in 1964 the governing body of the United
States still had
so many restrictions on voting even though the time in between
this
amendment and the original document. After this women still
could not
vote until 1969.
University of Minneosota. All Amendments to the United States

37. of the
constitution.
http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/education/all_amendments_usconst.htm
(http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/education/all_amendments_usconst.ht
m)
Milwaukee Independent. The hypocrisy of American Rights:
What
Constitutional Means in a Nation Created Unequal.
http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/the-hypocrisy-
of-
american-rights-what-constitutional-entitlement-means-in-a-
nation-
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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created-unequal/
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)
Calvin Oglesby
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735)

38. Wednesday
Tyler,
Good post. A few thoughts come to mind. The first concerns,
"The
Transportation Act of 1717", also known as, "The Piracy Act of
1717"
(Wikimedia). This British Act allowed [in part] for the
transport of
felons [and ultimately those in debt] to be transported to
America
and furthered the 'peopling' of these [already inhabited] lands;
and
over time [possibly from the "necessary" beginning] this was an
issue,
and so to some extent, I disagree with the motive of some
expressed
concerns the Founding Fathers may have had. Benjamin
Franklin
wrote in a "Mock Petition to the House of Commons", that: "the
Transporting of Felons from England to the Plantations in
America, is
and hath long been a great Grievance to the said Plantations in

39. general..." (Franklin, 1766). When Georgia was first
established,
advertisements in Europe hailed the land of the newly
established
Colony, as "the Most delightful Country of the Universe"; this
being an
option to, "debtor's prison[s]". And, you mentioned the word,
"tyranny", which reminded me also of Thomas Jefferson's draft
of the
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 20 of 29
"tyranny", which reminded me also of Thomas Jefferson's draft
of the
Declaration of Independence where he writes, "...against human
nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty
in the
persons of a distant people who never offended [him]"
(Jefferson,
1776); so I feel like there was/is some degree of a true/genuine
concern and care in their [the Founding Fathers'] intent despite
that

40. often being argued against.
Another point that often seems disregarded is how well-
populated
the lands of America were before the arrival of the Spanish; and
that
once Christianity arrived, the transition wasn't an overnight
thing. In
the Papal Bull, "Inter Caetera", Alexander VI, describes the
lands of
the Americas as that, "wherein dwell very many peoples living
in
peace..." (Alexander, 1493). These lands were lived upon
before our
arrival[s]. The people here had systems of government,
agriculture,
religion, language, science, and so on. Historically, the one
thing
these/those people may have lacked is a well-regulated militia
and a
centrally organized government. The strongest opposition to
our
political system was likely those, "native inhabitants" of the
Americas.
The history of this is well [and not so well] documented and

41. seems
to have succumbed at the end of the Seminole conflict[s] in the
Mid-
Nineteenth Century. We can choose to see the good in it.
A couple of Amendments are mentioned in your post, which
prompted me to contemplate what I consider to be a very
important
and unique Amendment listed in the Bill of Rights--and that's
the
Eighth Amendment, which reads: "Excessive bail shall not be
required, nor excessive fines be imposed, nor cruel and unusual
punishments inflicted" (U.S. Bill of Rights, Amend. 8, 1791).
The
reason I find this article so interesting is that it is the only
Amendment that distinctly parallels [incorporates] the 1689
English
Bill of Rights, wherein it reads, "That excessive bail ought not
to be
required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 21 of 29

42. Edited by Calvin Oglesby
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135735) on Nov 3
at 9:20am
punishments inflicted." (English Bill of Rights, Art. 1, Sec. 10,
1689).
References
Wikimedia Foundation. (2022, October 6). Piracy act 1717.
Wikipedia.
Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_Act_1717
Franklin, B., Lemay, J. A. L. (1987). Writings ['1722-1790'
Volume
Edition]: Essays, Articles, Bagatelles, and Letters. Poor
Richard's
Almanack. Autobiography. United States: Literary Classics of
the
United States (pp 582-583)
Declaring independence: Drafting the documents Jefferson's
"original
rough draught" of The declaration of independence. Library of
Congress. (1995, July 4). Retrieved November 2, 2022, from

43. https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/declara/ruffdrft.html
The bull inter caetera (Alexander VI), May 4, 1493. The Bull
Inter
Caetera. (1493). Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://www.nativeweb.org/pages/legal/indig-inter-caetera.html
National Archives and Records Administration. (n.d.). The bill
of
rights: A transcription. National Archives and Records
Administration.
Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://www.archives.gov/founding-
docs/bill-of-rights-transcript
English Bill of Rights 1689. Avalon Project - English Bill of
Rights
1689. (1689). Retrieved November 2, 2022, from
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp
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(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)

44. Amanda Kimball
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114)
Wednesday
Edited by Amanda Kimball
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/89114) on Nov 2 at
7:33pm
Isn't it interesting how such well-educated and well-intended
leaders
could have been so narrow minded? I suppose that was the
culture at
the time and it is also very interesting how influential a culture
can be
on an individual's perspective. I believe this practice still exists
today
in other forms. I wonder, in 200 years from now, what current
day
practice will our descendants think was absolutely ridiculous in
our
time.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)

45. Larita Miggins (She/Her)
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)
Yesterday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 23 of 29
Hello Tyler,
I agree with your stating that democracy was the intent but not
for all
people. The framework was definitely established to only
benefit the
elite white men locked away in private for months without
interference protests or opinions. I think it’s how the rights of
slaves
to bear arms and women were not to vote until 1969. I wasn’t of
legal
age to vote at that time but being a woman and person of color
is a
double point of discrimination. I am glad there are Amendments
to

46. the Constitution that all the adjustments needed to live under a
more
democratic contact.
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134038)
Kiyana Douglas
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/134038)
Yesterday
Hey Tyler, I love the fact that you add specific information to
how the
framers took the idea of democracy from the government. Also I
love
that you did a little research on the history of the constitution
itself to
demonstrate the backstory behind the framers. Good job
!
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)
Larita Miggins (She/Her)
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/42689)
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 24 of 29

47. Yesterday
LaRita Miggins
POS2041-Online
Lecture 5609
Discussion 2
In February 1787, there were major debates in Congress which
led to
their decision to decided to revise the Articles of Confederation,
which
was our nation’s first constitution. There were major debates
between
the I55 delegates included at the Constitutional Convention
Debates
erupted over how each state would be represented in Congress,
over laws
surrounding slavery, and the layout of the new executive branch
of
government. The debates were held in private sessions, not
made public

48. for four months. The U.S. Constitution of 1788 was created into
law,
replacing the original Articles of Confederation and would be
used as our
governing document for the next 200 years. Over the course of
the years,
the lack of diversity, equality and freedom would be questioned
and later
amended.
The American Constitution of 1788 was a document that was
less than
democratic and lacked diversity in its founding members ,
representation, integrity or equality. There were no women,
racial
diversity, gender diverse or religious differences. The general
outline of
government was two houses of congress and a vote by the
people of
those in the lower house, which is the House of Representatives.
There
was an argument between delegates over how to elect members
with
some strongly opposing a vote by the people. Roger Sherman of

49. Connecticut , who had no trust in democracy said, “should have
as little
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 25 of 29
Connecticut , who had no trust in democracy said, “should have
as little
to do as may be about government” because they are “constantly
liable
to be misled.” Others like George Mason, having full faith in
democracy,
disagreed with Sherman, noting that members of the lower
house “ought
to know and sympathize with every part of the community.” If
this was
not a government voted by the people, then it was impossible to
draft a
document that properly represented all members of our country.
As far
back as 1788, women, slaves, natives were a group of
Americans not
given the liberty and freedom to be visible. As stated in the

50. module ,
slavery remained in the new Republic.
Through amendments to change legislation, the Constitution,
has
become more democratic in its representation and freedoms.
From the
election of a more diverse Congress and the judicial system, this
document has slowly evolved into an integral and inclusive part
of
legislation that ensures democracy. There are members from
different
genders, racial and religious background, social and economic
groups.
With the end of slavery and our ability to, today the
Constitution provides
liberty and justice for all.
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS FOUNDATION
Bill of Rights in Action
FALL 2009 (Volume 25, No. 2). Retrieved on November 2,
2022.
https://www.crf-usa.org/bill-of-rights-in-action/bria-25-2-the-
major-

51. debates-at-the-constitutional-convention.html
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135610)
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 26 of 29
Sha'quandria Easter
(https://canvas.fscj.edu/courses/65283/users/135610)
Yesterday
11/4/22, 1:30 AM
Page 27 of 29
Reply
"In Abraham Lincoln’s words, ‘government of the people, by
the people,
for the people’." This is what democracy means to me. I the
beginning,
this was initial goal. Coming together as a team, one band one
sound.
The Articles of Confederation were created by the Second
Continental

52. Congress. The original purpose of the Articles of Confederation
was to
plan the structure of the new government and to create a form of
government. Everything doesn't work as planned. That's when
you have to
improvise.
Even though the congress had a plan, the early American
Constitution
was not a sound democratic document. Issues aroused between
states
that were not settled, which was one of the downfalls of the
confederation. The top weakness of the Articles of
Confederation was
that Congress was not strong enough to enforce laws or raise
taxes,
making it difficult for the new nation to repay their debts from
the
Revolutionary War. This was what made the Constitution of
1788 less
than democratic. Also, the constitution didn't discuss freedom
of human
rights.
Democracy is a common value shared by all humanity. It is a

53. right for all
nations, not a prerogative reserved to a few. Today's
democracy has
become “a game of money politics." The democracy has been a
rich
men’s game based on capita and today as well. America is
caught up on
the latest trends. Everything has to be broadcast through social
media to
notice that the world is going downhill. there are a few way i
can see that
we are democratic being that we do have groups that do come
together
for the the same cause, such as LGBTQ, or BLM. I believe the
people are
making progress but we aren't quite there yet.
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11/4/22, 1:30 AM
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54. Chapter 7
Offering Value:
Price
1
Learning objectives
What is the role of price in the marketing mix?
What are the levels of price management? What marketing
objectives are related to pricing strategies?
What pricing orientations do marketers use to guide pricing
decisions?
Why do marketers make price adjustments and how might they
harm profitability?
What are the psychological influences that affect customer
perceptions of value?
How are digital innovations benefiting price management in
organizations? What are the implications of algorithmic
pricing?
2
2
price in the marketing mix
The assignment of value used to express the rate of exchange
Fee, premium, rent, toll, fare, tuition, buyer’s investment.
Pricing decisions relate directly to the effectiveness of an
organization’s business model:
Revenues are a function of sales and price point
Profitability is the difference between revenues and the cost of

55. doing business
While all elements of the marketing mix are part of offer
design, price stands out because of its role in driving revenues,
covering costs, and generating profits. Price is the assignment
of value used to express the rate of exchange. Payment could be
made by exchanging something of value, even non-monetary
value. For instance, you exchange your time and attention for
access to Facebook’s services. As marketers, we assign price as
a monetary value. There are many terms used to signify price
such as fee, premium, rent, toll, fare, and tuition. Some savvy
marketers even refer to price as a buyer’s investment! Pricing
decisions relate directly to the effectiveness of an
organization’s business model, and especially the profit
formula. Revenues are a function of sales and price point.
Profitability is the difference between revenues and the costs of
doing business. Raising prices can increase revenues and profits
if sales remain unchanged, but raising prices can also cause a
decline in demand. Managing costs also contributes directly to
profitability. The brand’s value proposition is a major driver of
buyer response to price.
3
Primary determinants influencing price
Marketing’s price management function is responsible for
evaluating industry shifts that may affect pricing, selecting a
price strategy that aligns with the brand positioning and market
strategy, and setting prices for specific products in the product
portfolio in such a way as to achieve target objectives

56. Marketers choose a price strategy which then guides price
setting decisions. Price strategy is defined as a chosen and
purposeful policy for price setting designed to achieve
objectives while supporting market perceptions of value
consistent with the product’s positioning and value proposition.
When we achieve the design of optimal pricing strategies,
defined as the sustainable price point that delivers the highest
level of profitability, as measured by free cash flow, price
decisions also contribute to the financial success of the
business. Identifying a perfect pricing strategy is difficult to do
because any individual product price decision takes place in the
context of the brand’s total marketing structure and ever-
changing market dynamics. Still there are best practices for
setting pricing strategies, guidelines for choosing tactics, and
innovations in digital technology that can contribute to our
success. As illustrated in Figure 7.1, marketers must consider
how the target market perceives value, how competing prices
compare, and the price implications relative to the costs to bring
the offer to market.
4
Price Management
Price management is the organizational function responsible for
supporting pricing-related processes, structuring roles and
responsibilities, and putting necessary tools and systems in
place to select price strategy, set prices, make price
adjustments, measure performance, and adapt pricing as needed.
Price management has three distinct but closely related levels:
Industry
Product market
Transaction
Price management is the organizational function responsible for
supporting pricing-related processes, structuring roles and

57. responsibilities, and putting necessary tools and systems in
place to select price strategy, set prices, make price
adjustments, measure performance, and adapt pricing as needed.
Price management has three distinct but closely related levels:
industry, product market, and transaction. At the industry level,
pricing strategists assess supply and demand market-wide,
product category performance, and trends like new technologies
or lifestyle patterns. The goal is to understand the general
context. Is market demand increasing? At what rate? Is supply
scarce or plentiful? Are new competitors still entering the
market? Are products viewed as commodities or are there
opportunities for differentiation? Answers to these questions
will determine the price orientation used to guide strategy at
product market level. At the product market level, price strategy
is determined. What pricing objectives are prioritized? Will the
strategy be based on perceived customer value, competitive
benchmarking, or cost? How differentiated is the product from
those offered by competitors? How valuable is the value
proposition to the target market? Is the target market price
sensitive? How does the target market account for the total
value of the product, defined as the sum of the benefits they
will receive less the costs of acquisition including the product
price and other intangible expenses like time and effort? What
cost considerations could contribute to the profit formula by
increasing margin? How will performance be assessed and used
to adjust price strategy? At the transaction level, the exact price
for each transaction is set. Pricing tactics are used to specify the
transaction structure and price point. Any price adjustments
such as allowances and discounts that may apply are set. At this
level, specific price offers are made, possibly even personalized
for individual prospective buyers. At the transaction level,
pricing managers will assess performance in terms of average
realized price and price leakage. Price elasticity of demand is a
relevant concept at all three levels of price management. It
explains how sensitive the market is to price fluctuations. When
demand is elastic, prospective buyers are sensitive to market

58. fluctuations in price. When demand is inelastic, it does not vary
in response to changes in price. Marketers in situations of
perfect elasticity are selling commodities. There will be little to
no ability to differentiate on price; prices will tend to be low
with little variance between competitors. In situations of perfect
inelasticity, marketers are not constrained by price sensitivity
and command high prices for differentiated products. In
between these two extremes, marketers must solve the pricing
puzzle – how high a price can be justified for a differentiated
product without losing the sale?
5
Pricing objectives
6
Before any pricing decisions are made, a company must identify
the objectives it wishes to attain through pricing. The most
common objectives are described in Table 7.1.
6
pricing orientations
Pricing orientation refers to the organization’s strategic view of
pricing in its marketing strategy as well as the methods used to
reach pricing decisions that support a competitive advantage.
Types of pricing orientation
Competition-based pricing orientation relies upon competitive
benchmarking.
Cost-based pricing approaches include:
Cost-plus (markup) pricing
Target return pricing
Break-even pricing

59. Customer value-based pricing leverages the customer perception
of value as a sum of both the benefits and costs of the product.
7
An organization’s pricing orientation refers to the
organization’s strategic view of pricing in its marketing strategy
as well as the methods used to reach pricing decisions that
support a competitive advantage. There are three types of
orientation: 1) competition-based, 2) cost-based, and 3)
customer value-based. The competition-based pricing
orientation relies upon competitive benchmarking. In other
words, it uses data on competitive price levels to set prices. It is
valuable in specific situations such as when a brand is 1)
competing against a limited number of successful competitors,
2) selling commodities, 3) establishing itself as the low-price
leader, and 4) trying to avoid a price war with the competition.
It overlooks information on demand characteristics, market
perceptions, and costs. Pricing decisions are influenced
primarily by accounting data. Objectives are tied to achieving a
target markup on costs, goal for return on investment, and/or
margin. Cost-based pricing approaches include: 1) cost-plus
(markup) pricing, 2) target return pricing, and 3) break-even
pricing. Total costs, the sum of variable and fixed costs, are
determined for all three methods. In cost-plus pricing, the
desired unit profit is added to the unit cost to determine the
price. Target return pricing determines the price that would
produce the target rate of return given unit costs, capital
investments, and forecasted sales volume. Break-even pricing
determines the price at which total costs would be recovered at
the forecasted sales volume. While cost-based pricing ensures
that companies are covering costs, it ignores demand
characteristics, market perceptions, and competitive threats.
Marketers may instead use total cost to set a price floor. The
customer value-based pricing orientation is the most valuable to

60. pricing strategists but also the most misunderstood. It is
sometimes confused with value pricing’s every day low price
tactic. Customer value-based pricing leverages the customer
perception of value as a sum of both the benefits and costs of
the product. For highly differentiated products, customer value-
based pricing will typically produce a higher price setting than
would have been recommended as a result of cost-based or
competitive-based pricing. Margins will be healthier and the
price serves as a perceptual cue to reinforce brand positioning.
Customer value-based pricing approaches are driven by a deep
understanding of customer’ needs, the value they anticipate
when those needs are met, perceived costs associated with
acquiring the product, and possible psychological influences.
People think of value in relative terms, given alternatives, not
absolute terms. They also recognize that value from the benefits
and utilities of a purchase are acquired at a cost, meaning that a
choice among a set of alternatives will be based on perceptions
of which brand will maximize net value. The primary
disadvantage of adopting a value-based orientation is the
difficulty in accurately assessing the target market’s perceptions
of total value and assigning monetary equivalents to those
perceptions. The most effective companies use aspects of all
three pricing orientations to create optimal pricing strategies.
7
Pricing tactics
At the transaction level of price management, prices are set and
managed. Importantly, marketers must set the desired list price,
but they also need to monitor performance and make price
adjustments as needed on an ongoing basis. A long list of
pricing tactics has evolved from customer value-based,
competitive-based, and cost-based pricing strategies. Table 7.2

61. includes some of the most common tactics used.
8
Price capability grid
9
The pricing capability grid captures the relationship between a
firm’s price management capabilities and price effectiveness.
When prices are adjusted using discounts and allowances, the
pocket price will be less than the list price. The amount lost is
called price leakage. To be effective, organizations must excel
at price setting and price getting. Price getting, also called price
realization, is the process of managing the gap between the
price the company wants to charge and the price it can actually
get. In other words, the most successful companies control the
use of price adjustments to cut down on price leakage. The
pricing capability grid identified five types of company pricing
performance based on these two dimensions: 1) organization’s
pricing orientation and 2) price realization. Organizations that
used customer-value based pricing were scored as strong on
price orientation. Those using competitive-based pricing were
scored as moderate and those using cost-based pricing were
scored as weak. Price realization was categorized as strong,
moderate, or weak depending upon the organization’s level of
average profit loss attributed to price leakage. Table 7.3
summarizes the five types. The results point to the need for
organizations to focus on price strategy at the product market
level of its price management program as well as price
realization at the transaction level to truly succeed.
9

62. psychological influences
Behavioral economics and consumer psychology shed insight on
the phenomenon of irrationality in buyer behavior.
References prices are prices the buyer has knowledge of and
uses as a point of comparison in evaluating the price of the
product under consideration
Internal reference prices are prices held in memory or perceived
by the buyer
External reference prices are supplied by other sources
including the marketer or store setting
It might seem that buyers are rational in their assessment of
value as the sum of consequences associated with a purchase.
But it’s worth remembering that people often times behave
irrationally. Behavioral economics and consumer psychology
shed insight on the phenomenon of irrationality in buyer
behavior. For the most part, people really don’t know how much
things are worth. They want a fair price, but they have to use
cues to guess what a fair price might be. Contrary to economic
theory, we don’t really decide between A and B by consulting
our invisible price tags and purchasing the one that yields the
higher utility. We make do with guesstimates and a vague
recollection of what things are supposed to cost. Consumers
use reference prices as a heuristic in these situations. Reference
prices are prices the buyer has knowledge of and uses as a point
of comparison in evaluating the price of the product under
consideration. There are two sources of reference prices:
internal and external. Internal reference prices are prices held in
memory or perceived by the buyer. Internal reference prices
could be based on the last price the buyer paid for a similar
product, a price cap the buyer has set for him or herself (also
known as a reservation price), recall of prices seen or
advertising in the past, knowledge of what others paid for a
similar product, and beliefs as to what a fair price might be.
External reference prices are supplied by other sources

63. including the marketer or store setting. For example, if you are
shopping for a new pair of shoes, you can use the prices of the
shoe assortment in the store as reference prices. Marketers can
use advertising and in-store signage, or on-page copy for e-
commerce, to provide external reference price cues. In this
digital age, external reference prices are easily available. The
availability of price information is called price transparency.
Neil Davidson, author of Don’t Just Roll the Dice , put it this
way: “People base their perceived values on reference points. If
you’re selling a to-do list application, then people will look
around and find another to-do list application. If they search the
Internet and discover that your competitors sell to-do list
applications at $100 then this will set their perception of the
right price for all to-do list applications.” People may also be
prone to loss aversion or splurging depending upon the payment
mode being used. Research suggests that people spend more
when using debit and credit cards and less when using cash.
Cash spenders will spend more if they have small bills and
change than if they have large bills. They will hesitate to break
a $100 bill but wouldn’t hesitate to use a mix of smaller bills.
It’s thought that loss aversion is to blame. We may perceive
more sense of loss when exchanging physical currency versus
digital currency, like Bitcoin. Buyers also fall prey to beliefs
and perceptions that harm their ability to make optimized
purchase decisions. For example, many consumers believe that
Amazon offers at or near the lowest prices on a broad range of
goods, even when that’s not the case. You can start to see
puzzling behaviors. In some ways, consumers are empowered by
price transparency, but also overlook opportunities to save
money. Mental costs are a possible explanation. Mental costs
are soft costs incurred in times of choice overload, friction, and
anxiety and whose debt we pay with intangible resources like
time, effort, and worry. In contrast, product prices represent
hard costs we pay with monetary resources. The marketer must
remember cost is not just a mathematical calculation; it is
especially a psychological calculation.

64. 10
Types of price optimization modelS
While dynamic pricing makes it possible to dynamically alter
product prices when certain conditions are met, price
optimization models analyze “what-if” scenarios that can inform
pricing decisions. Table 7.4 describes some of the most common
types of price optimization models. Price optimization models
are mathematical programs that calculate how demand varies at
different price levels. They can be used to forecast demand,
predict sales response to pricing strategies, use of price
adjustments like discounts and deals, and promotions. These
techniques make it possible to offer differentiated pricing, also
known as price customization. Price customization offers
different prices to customers who value the product differently.
The same databases we can use to customize real-time offers,
retarget ads, and develop personas make it possible for firms to
estimate what each individual buyer is willing to pay and set a
price based on that estimate. From a marketing perspective,
customized pricing results in the highest level of profitability,
highest purchase conversion rates, and highest customer
satisfaction with the price charged. The price chosen maximizes
the price a buyer is willing to pay without risking the loss of a
sale.
11
Review questions
What is meant by customer value-based pricing? How is it
different from value pricing?
What is cost-based pricing?
Why is price elasticity of demand an important consideration
when using cost-based pricing?

65. What pricing objectives might marketers choose?
What situations favor the use of competitive-based pricing?
How does psychology influence the way people respond to
prices?
12
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