SlideShare a Scribd company logo
A transboundary pilot plan
        for the Bothnian Sea




Plan Bothnia final conference
23 May 2012
Gothenburg, Sweden
                                  DG MARE
50% Norwegian
50% Finnish
Marine Biologist
Master of Law



100% Spanish
Living in Finland
Wife: Swedish-speaking Finn
Geographer
GIS and visualization freak




                               Lead partner:
                              an exotic cultural
                                   coctel

                                                   Qperello
Why
transboundary
MSP?
The Bothnian Sea
Area: 60.000 Km2
3D model
A beautiful place
Also during winter
 (it freezes every year!)




                            Gabriel Berg
What is Plan Bothnia?
Would you like a copy? Let me know!
     manuel.frias@helcom.fi
DG MARE
        Co-funded under
       European Integrated
         Maritime Policy




December 2010                                  December 2011             May 2012




                                 Phase 1                       Phase 2
                             Data collection              Spatial Plan
Six great partners and many participants
 Redo to include assistants to conference
From ideas to reality

        Flood of
         Space
        (inspiration)
How?
Luckily we had
maps.helcom.fi...
 but we needed more!
Normal winter   Really cold winter!
Nature protection and interest areas for wind
”The first draft of
 anything is s**t”
           Ernest Hemingway
Our first drafts were
   not that bad!
Openness
We ALL benefit
 from sharing




                 Ed Yourdon
”The more people that know your idea
      the more powerful it becomes”


Value of the creator




                       Number of people who know your idea



                                                             Adapted from Seth Godin
” Planning processes should be
  open and transparent ”

      ” Data should be
   openly accessible ”

                   HELCOM-VASAB MSP Principles
All information is (and will be) here:




   www.planbothnia.org
Challenges
Short time!
  December 2010




    May 2012



                  DafneCholet
We have worked 18 months




2% of our life!
Few examples
      on
transboundary
     MSP


                Striatic
Little data
available on
  certain
   topics!




               Jannica Haldin
High ambition!




                 Max_think
The most
rewarding
"Coming together is a beginning, staying
 together is progress, and working
 together is success.“
                                            Henry Ford




Partner collaboration has been excellent!
Open process!
A beautiful and
inspiring book
The result!
The book
Data collection in
      each chapter




  There is a
Synthesis
  map
In each chapter




    The pilot plan!
This is the only wind
Data turbine in the
      for planning
    Bothnian Sea
  There will be more and we should be ready




                                              KoneCranes
There are
  differences in
planning tradition
The end?
The future is
      in your hands
        (or in your head)




YOU



                 ?
Thank you!



             http://about.me/manolofrias

More Related Content

More from Manuel Frias

Don't dread the poster
Don't dread the posterDon't dread the poster
Don't dread the poster
Manuel Frias
 
How to access HELCOM data
How to access HELCOM dataHow to access HELCOM data
How to access HELCOM data
Manuel Frias
 
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
Manuel Frias
 
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
Manuel Frias
 
Better presentation design
Better presentation design Better presentation design
Better presentation design
Manuel Frias
 
How a seed became a tree
How a seed became a treeHow a seed became a tree
How a seed became a tree
Manuel Frias
 
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOMData visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Manuel Frias
 
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOMData visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Manuel Frias
 
Presentation training session at HELCOM
Presentation training session at HELCOMPresentation training session at HELCOM
Presentation training session at HELCOM
Manuel Frias
 
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
Manuel Frias
 
How we made shipping density maps
How we made shipping density mapsHow we made shipping density maps
How we made shipping density maps
Manuel Frias
 
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
Manuel Frias
 
Instructions to fill in the name tag
Instructions to fill in the name tagInstructions to fill in the name tag
Instructions to fill in the name tag
Manuel Frias
 
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
Manuel Frias
 
Changing the data visualization culture
Changing the data visualization cultureChanging the data visualization culture
Changing the data visualization culture
Manuel Frias
 
Learning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
Learning AIS at the HELCOM SecretariatLearning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
Learning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
Manuel Frias
 
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love storyMaritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
Manuel Frias
 
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled watersHELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
Manuel Frias
 
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic SeaHELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
Manuel Frias
 
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
Manuel Frias
 

More from Manuel Frias (20)

Don't dread the poster
Don't dread the posterDon't dread the poster
Don't dread the poster
 
How to access HELCOM data
How to access HELCOM dataHow to access HELCOM data
How to access HELCOM data
 
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
The HELCOM Maritime Assessment - how to visualize complex problems in the Bal...
 
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
Getting data for maritime spatial planning is dificult!
 
Better presentation design
Better presentation design Better presentation design
Better presentation design
 
How a seed became a tree
How a seed became a treeHow a seed became a tree
How a seed became a tree
 
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOMData visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOM
 
Data visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOMData visualization training session HELCOM
Data visualization training session HELCOM
 
Presentation training session at HELCOM
Presentation training session at HELCOMPresentation training session at HELCOM
Presentation training session at HELCOM
 
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
How to achieve a sustainable Baltic Sea with the help of GIS (and ESRI)
 
How we made shipping density maps
How we made shipping density mapsHow we made shipping density maps
How we made shipping density maps
 
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
Sharing data in the Baltic Sea - Why?
 
Instructions to fill in the name tag
Instructions to fill in the name tagInstructions to fill in the name tag
Instructions to fill in the name tag
 
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
From the Baltic Sea to South Africa - Shipping traffic density maps to Baltic...
 
Changing the data visualization culture
Changing the data visualization cultureChanging the data visualization culture
Changing the data visualization culture
 
Learning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
Learning AIS at the HELCOM SecretariatLearning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
Learning AIS at the HELCOM Secretariat
 
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love storyMaritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
Maritime Spatial Planning in the BalticSea - a love story
 
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled watersHELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
HELCOM: a bridge over troubled waters
 
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic SeaHELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
HELCOM-VASAB group makes Maritime Spatial Planning a reality in the Baltic Sea
 
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
Why do we do Maritime Spatial Planning in the Baltic Sea? The Plan Bothnia te...
 

Recently uploaded

FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
LR1709MUSIC
 
Auditing study material for b.com final year students
Auditing study material for b.com final year  studentsAuditing study material for b.com final year  students
Auditing study material for b.com final year students
narasimhamurthyh4
 
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social DreamingExploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
Nicola Wreford-Howard
 
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
Any kyc Account
 
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
Boris Ziegler
 
Business Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
Business Valuation Principles for EntrepreneursBusiness Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
Business Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
Ben Wann
 
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBdCree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
creerey
 
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
Lviv Startup Club
 
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
tanyjahb
 
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
dylandmeas
 
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdfikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
agatadrynko
 
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdfMeas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
dylandmeas
 
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n PrintAffordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
Navpack & Print
 
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
Adam Smith
 
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdfikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
agatadrynko
 
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
marketing317746
 
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and TemplatesDigital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
Aurelien Domont, MBA
 
Improving profitability for small business
Improving profitability for small businessImproving profitability for small business
Improving profitability for small business
Ben Wann
 
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern BusinessesPremium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
SynapseIndia
 
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdfModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
fisherameliaisabella
 

Recently uploaded (20)

FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
FINAL PRESENTATION.pptx12143241324134134
 
Auditing study material for b.com final year students
Auditing study material for b.com final year  studentsAuditing study material for b.com final year  students
Auditing study material for b.com final year students
 
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social DreamingExploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
Exploring Patterns of Connection with Social Dreaming
 
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
An introduction to the cryptocurrency investment platform Binance Savings.
 
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
Agency Managed Advisory Board As a Solution To Career Path Defining Business ...
 
Business Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
Business Valuation Principles for EntrepreneursBusiness Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
Business Valuation Principles for Entrepreneurs
 
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBdCree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
Cree_Rey_BrandIdentityKit.PDF_PersonalBd
 
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
Maksym Vyshnivetskyi: PMO Quality Management (UA)
 
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
3.0 Project 2_ Developing My Brand Identity Kit.pptx
 
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
Discover the innovative and creative projects that highlight my journey throu...
 
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdfikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_dog-alogue_digital.pdf
 
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdfMeas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
Meas_Dylan_DMBS_PB1_2024-05XX_Revised.pdf
 
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n PrintAffordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
Affordable Stationery Printing Services in Jaipur | Navpack n Print
 
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
The Influence of Marketing Strategy and Market Competition on Business Perfor...
 
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdfikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
ikea_woodgreen_petscharity_cat-alogue_digital.pdf
 
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
amptalk_RecruitingDeck_english_2024.06.05
 
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and TemplatesDigital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
Digital Transformation and IT Strategy Toolkit and Templates
 
Improving profitability for small business
Improving profitability for small businessImproving profitability for small business
Improving profitability for small business
 
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern BusinessesPremium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
Premium MEAN Stack Development Solutions for Modern Businesses
 
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdfModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
ModelingMarketingStrategiesMKS.CollumbiaUniversitypdf
 

Plan Bothnia final conference presentation

Editor's Notes

  1. The moment has come. After one year and a half we are proud to present the final results of the Plan Bothnia project.
  2. First a short introduction about the editors of the Plan Bothnia publication and the members of the lead partner, Helcom. We think the lead partner team froms an exotic coctel!
  3. This is a project about transboundary MSP so first we would like to give some words about why is that important?
  4. Transoundary MSP is a tool to solve future problems in a sea with high pressures. Shipping routes, fishing and especially the developmet fo wind power parks set pressures on the sea. For example this map is a synthesis of the uses of the Bothnian Sea.
  5. First some words about the Bothnian Sea, our area of study.
  6. Bothnian Sea: Locatedin the gulf of BothniaBetween Finland and SwedenPear shaped Narrower south and north.
  7. 3D model made by our project partner. Swedish side: shallow area with sand banks. Finngrundet important for conservation and wind powerDepression from north to south ended in Ulvö deep, the deepest point is 200mline: EEZRed line: planning area (baseline + 1NM). Coastal current zone.
  8. Beautiful place. I took this picture last summer in Åland, an island located in the south Bothnian Sea. The quality of the water is good compared to other parts of the Baltic Sea
  9. The Bothnian Sea freezes every year. The north part is frozen 140 days/year in average. This has implications for maritime traffic.
  10. Funded by DG MARE. Two phases: 1.- data collection and making of draft assessment (basis for the spatial plan)2.- elaboration of spatial plan.Short project: only 18 months
  11. How did the project start?Why the Bothnian Sea? Why ecosystem aproach?Why is PB different from other projects?: transbounday, open, collaboration, main issues covered
  12. Planning is solving problems. So we need to start first IDENTIFYING the problems. To do that we need DATA. To start a plan first we need to know what data we have available. Data is crucial and in the beginning of this project we didn’t have almost any. We started almost from an ”empty” sea. I say ”almost” because luckily we had HELCOM. HELCOM is the best example of an open regional database. We got a lot of data to start the project but we needed more and more specific for the Bothnian Sea.
  13. Thanks to these people we have maps like this. This map shows where fisher main fish herring in the Baltic Sea. Herring is the most important fish on the Bothnian Sea. Most catches in the Baltic Sea take place here. This data is unique. There is nothing with such detail in the whole Baltic Sea area. It’s made with VMS (Vessel Monitoring System) and catch logs from fish boats. Our Swedish partner created it.
  14. Another example is this map showing maritime traffic. We have to analyse where the main route are, whether traffic is increasing or decrasing and the possibility of new roures in the future.
  15. We also need to know where the conflicts are: Where do different uses overlap. In this map we see a clear conflict between nature protection areas and areas suitable for wind power.
  16. I showed you that we have tons of data, should we just keep it for ourselves? From the beginning we thought that it would be best to share our data and processes. Why? Because we think that we all benefit from sharing data and being open. There is no point of keeping all the knowledge for ourselves.
  17. It is also that we follow the HELCOM-VASAB recommendation. According to the HELCOM-VASAB MSP Principles ”Planning processes...” and ”Data should be...”
  18. How do we try to be open and transparent? We built a webpage and from this webpage you can access EVERYTHING. For example in the blog we talk about our activities, it’s interactive so you can give your comments; in the calendar you can find our latest deadlines and events; you can also find pictures of our meetings and our travels; from our twitter account we follow people with similar interests... And if you want to keep informed of our activities please subscribe to our blog so that you can get our blog posts in your mail.
  19. I left the map service to the end because it’s a very important component. From here you can see: how much data do we have; what does it look like; you can overlap layers, view several layers at the same time, analysis... You can even download data!
  20. Bird Migration / Underwater offshore archeology
  21. Excellent patner collaboration
  22. Some words here about the importance of design. Design = inspire. ”Good design chages things” Garr ReynoldsVisual review by world acclaimed designer Joost GrootensBooks that inspired us: Flood of Space
  23. The possible expansion of wind power is a good example of an issue that should be considered on the scale of the whole basin. The combined effect of all such developments in the basin might influence the whole ecosystem, beyond the perspective of individual permit applications.
  24. Differences in planning tradition: markings – Swe: more exact definition due to the central role of municipalities in planning / Fin: more general approach since regional planning leave some flexibility for interpretation for municipalitiesFinnish approach: written guidelines versus map based. Which one is better?