This document is an email chain between Thane Heins, president of Potential +/- Difference Inc., and Dave Pascoe of Magna International regarding a bi-toroid transformer technology. Thane provides test data showing the technology achieves significantly higher efficiencies than conventional transformers. Dave requests a demonstration showing the technology can power itself without external energy input. Thane agrees to connect a motor and generator to the device to show excess energy production. Dave remains skeptical and wants his electronics expert Jim Kane to evaluate the technology.

1. --- On Sat, 7/18/09, Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca> wrote:
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Complete MAGNA International Transformer Tests
To: "Thane C. Heins" <thane_heins@yahoo.ca>
Received: Saturday, July 18, 2009, 9:11 AM
I called him from Asia.
We said we would speak again on Monday.
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
office: 905-726-7229
Mobile: 289-221-2340
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
From: "Thane C. Heins" [thane_heins@yahoo.ca]
Sent: 07/18/2009 06:05 AM MST
To: Dave Pascoe
Cc: Saverio Panetta <Saverio@Toroidtech.com>
Subject: Re: Complete MAGNA International Transformer Tests
Dear Dave,
No kidding, and the whole world will be there in 10 minutes as well [if we built you a [PERPETUAL MOTION
MACHINE]. The question is does Magna International want to be at the front of the line or at the back of it?
Anyway, the efficiency numbers should be taken with a grain of salt because we are not using the best meters nor
are they calibrated and university meters tend to be beaten to within an inch of their life. The prototype is not build for
efficiency anyway but for proof of concept.
So I am not all that interested in the efficiency numbers but does the whole device work as intended (please see flux
diagram which will be added to the Magna PPT).
We will begin building factory units at Toroid Tech starting next week.
I am forwarding this email to Saverio Panetta - President of Toroid Tech who has been sponsoring this technology
since day one. Please feel free to contact him at your convenience to ensure that you have all the information you
require on an ongoing basis to serve Magna's interests fully.
BTW - Did you happen to speak to Chris Napior or were you still in Asia this past Thursday?
Cheers
Thane
Thane C. Heins
President - Potential +/- Difference Inc.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is
accepted as being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhaur

2. --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca> wrote:
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Complete MAGNA International Transformer Tests
To: thane_heins@yahoo.ca
Received: Friday, July 17, 2009, 11:06 PM
Hi Thane,
I'm not really super interested in transformers, alone, but am interested
in your efficiency numbers.
Please consider putting a motor on the output and a generator on the input.
Since the efficiency is so high, there should be excess energy at the
motor.
Then make the motor drive the generator and unplug the whole apparatus from
the wall.....does it still run? (If yes, then I'll be there in 10 minutes.
If no, then I'm probably not your customer)
I think that you know what I am asking.
Please let me know.
Kind regards,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
375 Magna Drive, Aurora, ON, L4G 7L6
Telephone: 905-726-7229
Fax: 905-726-7286
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
Dear Dave,
I hope your Asian trip is going well!
Please find enclosed the latest Bi-Toroid Transformer test data - showing
74% efficiency for the Conventional E I Transformer and 989% for the
Bi-Toroid Transformer.
We will be at Toroid Technologies next week - Tuesday and Wednesday most
likely. If you would like to meet - please let me know.
Thanks
Thane
--- On Sat, 7/11/09, Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca> wrote:
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca>
Subject: Re: New Primary, Secondary and Test Data
To: "Thane C. Heins" <thane_heins@yahoo.ca>
Received: Saturday, July 11, 2009, 11:09 AM
Wow.
We need to meet.

3. I'll be in Asia next week.
Please call me on the 20th.
905-726-7229
Thanks,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
office: 905-726-7229
Mobile: 289-221-2340
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
From: "Thane C. Heins" [thane_heins@yahoo.ca]
Sent: 07/10/2009 09:36 PM MST
To: Dave Pascoe
Cc: napior@rogers.com; kcunningham@ocri.ca; rhabash@site.uottawa.ca
Subject: New Primary, Secondary and Test Data
Dear Dave,
In an effort to try to conform to your data request (in honor of Nikola Tesla's birthday today) - I made a new
prototype (please see attachment).
While the data should be taken with a grain of salt and the power factor may be open to debate the transformer
shows 191% efficiency.
Also I should remind you that the primary is just "sitting" on top of the secondary core. If it was firmly secured the
input current would decrease and the output voltage across the load would increase so the efficiency would be even
higher..
Cheers
Thane
Thane C. Heins
President - Potential +/- Difference Inc.
All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as
being self-evident. - Arthur Schopenhaur
--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca> wrote:
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Comprehansive Power Point Presentation
To: thane_heins@yahoo.ca
Received: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 10:41 PM

4. Hi Thane,
I am challengine our electronics group to
comment on this.
I think that your device is simply more
efficient.
Is there any evidence that the output
power is greater than the input power?
Have you measured this?
Kind regards,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
375 Magna Drive, Aurora, ON, L4G 7L6
Telephone: 905-726-7229
Fax: 905-726-7286
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
-- On Wed, 7/1/09, Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca> wrote:
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca <Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Potential Difference Bi-Toroid Transformer
To: thane_heins@yahoo.ca
Cc: "Jim Kane" <jim.kane@magnaelectronics.com>, dan@ottawalife.com
Received: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 2:06 AM
Hi Thane,
Our expert, Jim Kane has been swamped to date. Our corporate office is on vacation this week and so is
Jim. He should be able to take a look at your video, next week.
From myself, a non-expert in this area, it appears to me that you are trying to demonstrate "free energy".
Is that correct? With a 90 degree (zero) power factor on the input that means zero energy in. And a 0
degree (one) power factor on the output means real energy is transferred. Can you list the absolute value
of the current and voltage on the input and on the output of your device during the video demonstration
and send this to me?
Kind regards,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
375 Magna Drive, Aurora, ON, L4G 7L6
Telephone: 905-726-7229
Fax: 905-726-7286
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
Dear Dave,
I hope all is well? Your Magna power factor expert may find this of interest since it can

5. have immediate and wide ranging applications and is scaleable.
Please find below a link to our Bi-Toroid Transformer Technology, where the primary
coil uses ONLY reactive power (power factor = 0) and delivers REAL power (power
factor = 1) to the load.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq_yGELmhV4&feature=channel_page
Best regards
Thane
Thane C. Heins
President - Potential +/- Difference Inc.
"Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their
minds cannot change anything."
- George Bernard Shaw
From: Dan Donovan
To: Kim Cunningham
Sent: Wed May 27 12:54:30 2009
Subject: FW: Dave-check this out-Dan Donovan
hi Kim and Thane
Thane-please read my email trail -responses since we spoke earlier today re Magna. Can you
call Jim Kane to discuss. The key thing with Jim is to be patient with him if he is pulling up the
same old presumptions - be specific in addressing his specific questions-and don't let him make
assumptions- keep in mind our goal is to get him to come to UOTTAWA lab.
please call me after you speak with him
best regards
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca [mailto:Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 11:42 AM
To: dan@ottawalife.com
Cc: Jim Kane
Subject: RE: Dave-check this out-Dan Donovan

6. Thane,
You are good. I had better let Jim Kane discuss this with you. He is our expert.
Can you try him at 248-606-0606, ext 303.
alternate mobile: 248-875-5437
Kind regards,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
375 Magna Drive, Aurora, ON, L4G 7L6
Telephone: 905-726-7229
Fax: 905-726-7286
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Donovan" [dan@ottawalife.com]
Sent: 05/27/2009 10:44 AM AST
To: Dave Pascoe
Subject: RE: Dave-check this out-Dan Donovan
hi Dave .........and Jim
Thanks for the follow up. The challenge is that the assessment is based on a false premise
because we are measuring increase in power across a purely resistive load which has a power
factor of one. (You can't correct beyond a power factor of one). Power factor is not an issue.
The power factor of the load is always transferred back to the coils-so if the load has a power
factor of one, the coils have a power factor of one-they have to match!!!
Thane has a proto type that uses a DC motor and he can show that he can accelerate the DC
motor that has a 10 pound rotor but at the same time the current to the DC motor will go down.
In other words, the acceleration is coming from the coils.
(It is not possible to accelerate a DC motor unless you increase the power -we can do this by
infinitely loading (shorting out) the coil.
so.......thoughts?-- in my view it is worth a quick trip to Ottawa to the lab at UOttawa to see this.
As you know there is nothing like a real time lab demo.
best regards
Dan

7. -----Original Message-----
From: Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca [mailto:Dave_Pascoe@magna.on.ca]
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 5:08 PM
To: Dan Donovan
Subject: Re: Dave-check this out-Dan Donovan
Hi Dan,
I spoke to our electronics expert (Director level in the Electronics Group), Jim Kane.
It appears to him and to me that a power factor correction is happening with the addition of the
high voltage coils.
This means that energy is not being created, but the generator can run at higher efficiency and
so it speeds up because the efficiency losses are not so severe.
Jim currently does power corrections electronically and so does not see a benefit for our
products.
I have only a mechanical engineer's knowledge in this area, and so will rely on Jim's
assessment.
I hope that this is useful.
Kind regards,
Dave Pascoe
Magna International
office: 905-726-7229
Mobile: 289-221-2340
e-mail: dave_pascoe@magna.on.ca
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Donovan" [dan@ottawalife.com]
Sent: 05/20/2009 07:08 PM AST
To: Dave Pascoe
Subject: Dave-check this out-Dan Donovan

8. hi Dave--hope all is well.
Wil what do you think of this. My colleague Thane and I were at MIT and they
were blown away by this. NRG-FX Inc (my company) is commercializing this
quite incredible battery technology breakthrough.
Bascially it is a regenerating generator. With this technology you could go
800km on one charge because the unit is a Regenerative Acceleration
Generator. There is a brief PowerPoint and then you can see our demo on our
youtube demo site.It has multiple commercial applications and I thought it
was a perfect fit in the auto sector.
Please go to this website to see it. www.youtube.com/user/thanecheins for
real-time demo.
What do you think?
bests regards
Dan Donovan
www.nrg-fx.com