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HIGHWAY SAFETY, DESIGN AND OPERATIONS
Roadside Hazards
TUESDAY, MAY 23, 1967
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE FEDERAL-AiD HIGHWAY
PROGRAM OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS,
Washington , D .C .
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 :15 a .m ., in room
2167, Rayburn Building, Hon. John A . Blatnik, chairman, presiding.
Present : Messrs. Fallon (chairman ), Blatnik (subcommittee chair
man ), Wright, Johnson, McCarthy, Howard, Cramer, Cleveland,
Clausen , Duncan, Schadeberg ,Zion,McDonald , and Denny.
Also present: Walter R . May, chief counsel; Robert L . May,mi
nority counsel; George M . Kopecky, chief investigator ; Robert G .
Lawrence, associate counsel; Salvatore J. D 'Amico ; Paul R . S . Yates,
minority professional staff member ; Stuart M . Harrison , staff assist
ant; Mrs. Mildred Rupert, staff assistant; Miss Agnes GaNun, staff
assistant; Mrs. Shirley Knighten , staff assistant; and Mrs. Kathryn
Keeney, chief clerk.
Staff, Committee on Public Works: Richard J. Sullivan, chief
counsel, and Clifton W . Enfield,minority counsel.
Bureau of Public Roads: Charles Harrell, visual information
specialist.
*Mr. BLATNIK . The Special Subcommittee on the Federal-Aid High
way Program of the House Committee on Public Works will please
come to order.
The significance of the testimony which you are about to hear in
these series of public hearings beginning today and its important
bearing on the lives and futures of millions of our citizens and the
graphic materialpresented willmake itself clear as therecord unfolds.
Now I have an introductory statement to read at this point, which
we usually do at the beginning of these hearings, and the minority
leader will be recognized immediately following that for any state
mentor comments which he deemsappropriate, which usually are very
pertinentand to the point.
Webegin today a series of hearingsto inquire into certain questions
bearing upon the design and operational efficiency of our highways.
In the carrying out of our ambitious highway program under the
termsand spirit of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 , it is abso
lutely essential that every aspect of the program be performed in such
a way as to preserve the confidence of Congress and of the American
people.
At the present time, weare spending more than $4 billion - these are
Federal funds a year out of the highway trust fund for our Federal
(1)
aid programs. More than $ 3 billion of this sum is being expended for
work on the Interstate System and the remaining $ 1 billion for the
primary, secondary ,and urban construction .
In the past decademore than $45 billion has been committed to these
programs, the Federal share alone ofthis $45 billion being in excess of
$33 billion .
Without question tremendous progress has been made since 1956.
The Federal Government, the States and industry have,acting in con
cert,made great strides from a small beginning. There ismuch atwhich
wemay point with pride.
Nevertheless, in a program so vast, it could be expected that the
way would not always be smooth , nor free from human error or occa
sional failure. Ourhearings in thepast have shown that such is, in fact,
the case.
However, as our hearings have identified various deficiencies and
weaknesses which were affecting the program , the response of the
Bureau of Public Roads, the American Association of State Highway
Officials, individual State highway departments, and other interested
organizations, has been prompt and effective. This willingness to act
and the corrective measures taken have been most gratifying to the
committee.
While I don 't normally care to anticipate the substance of public
testimony we are going to hear, this time I feel compelled to do so to
some degree because the matters concern the safety and well-being of
our citizens.
Weneed not dwell here on thedeaths, the suffering, and the economic
costs involved in this Nation's automobile accident toll. The Federal
legislation passed last year and the programs underway are designed
to attack this tragic problem .
Without question, in time there will be success. However, I am con
cerned about the timeelement particularly, because I am certain that
significant results can be accomplished right now .
Material developed by the staff has convinced methat there is more
that can be accomplished in the design of our highways from a safety
standpoint. If unnecessary hazardous features continue to be designed
and built into our new highways, we must take steps to identify and
eliminate them .
It is late. This is 1967 and more than one-half of the Interstate Sys
tem has been completed and opened to traffic . In a program where
Federal funds alone are being spent at the rate of over $ 10 million a
day and where certain built-in mistakes may be suffered for decades,
great urgency must attach to required changes.
This subcommittee again expects the responsible officials of the Fed
eral and State Governments and other organizations associated with
the highway fraternity to give attention to these hearings and, work
ing cooperatively,expedite needed improvements.
That concludesmy statement. Now I will be pleased to recognize the
gentleman from Florida,Mr. Cramer.
Mr. CRAMER. Thank you very much ,Mr. Chairman, and of course I
join you in your remarks and would like to add a few comments ofmy
own. It is interesting to reflect on the factmuch has been said in ( on
gress, particularly in recent years, with regard to automobile safety,
and Congress has passed legislation to provide for safety features to
be included in automobile construction to guarantee the automobile
purchaser with the maximum amount of safety features in the auto
mobile. That is one side of the coin . The other side of the coin is the
building of safety features into the highways themselves and, as I
understand, that is the subject matter of these deliberations.
The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, enacted nearly 11 years ago,
imposed a tremendous task upon the State highway departments and
the Bureau of Public Roads, in that they were asked to build the
greatest public works project in history - 41,000 miles of high -speed ,
access-controlled highways, in addition to the regular Federal-aid high
way program ,and to do this within a limited period of time.
The Interstate System will not be completed on schedule, but this
is largely because of lack of adequate financing, not because of failure
of our highway builders. In terms of production, the location and
building of highways, the State highway departments and the Bureau
ofPublic Roads have done amagnificent job .
Despite this fine work , or more likely because of it, not enough
attention has been given to making our highways as safe as possible.
The sheer magnitude of the job of locating, designing, and building
a 41,000 -mile system of high-speed highways within a limited timemay
have so occupied the timeand attention of our highway builders that
they overlooked some safety measures which now appear obvious.
Whatever the reason, it is apparent that there are many unnecessary
hazards within the rights-of-way of our most modern highways. Any
observant driver can point out some of these hazards, such as culverts,
bridge piers, unnecessary signs, improperly placed guardrails, deep
ditches, and steep cut and fill banks, and trees and boulders which
"beautify " the highway. Collision with any of these can kill a motorist
who has themisfortune to drive or be forced off the paved roadway.
Drivers veer off high -speed highways for a variety of reasons. In
some cases the driver is at fault; he may be drunk, speeding, careless,
or asleep. In other cases careful, law -abiding drivers may swerve to
miss a child or an animal or a disabled car,may hit a slick or icy spot,
orbe forced off thehighway by another car.
Regardless of the reasons why a driver may leave the paved portion
of a high -speed highway, roadside areas should be sufficiently clear of
obstructions to give him an opportunity to regain control of his car.
He and his passengers should be given a reasonable chance of survival
and not be faced with the death penalty for a comparatively minor
error.
Drivers and their passengershave notbeen given that chance in many
instances in the past. According to figures published by the National
Safety Council, out of 49,000 traffic fatalities in 1965, 17,100— or 35
percent- were the result of single-car accidents in which cars left the
roadway and overturned or collided with something. A substantial
number of these 17,100 people — and thousands killed in other years —
might be alive if more attention had been paid to clear, unobstructed
roadside areas.
Past investigations and hearings of this subcommittee have resulted
in the highway departments and the Bureau of Public Roads focusing
increased attention on important elements of the Federal-aid highway
program ,and I congratulate the subcommittee for getting those results.
I am satisfied that these hearingswill prove equally as valuable as any
wehave held thus far,becausethey will result, Ibelieve, in saving lives
as well asmoney. Thank you,Mr. Chairman.
Mr. BLATNIK . I thank the gentleman from Florida. One brief an
nouncement. Weare very pleased to have with us in the audience in
attendance this morning about 60 students from Broome Junior High
School and Richard Montgomery High School over in Rockville, Md.
These students are sitting over there.
We welcome you. You are accompanied by two of your teachers,
Mrs. Gail Auricchio and Mr. Ronald Burdette.
These students are a part of a larger group, as I understand. Is
that true ? About 130 students of the total group is visiting Capitol
Hill and visiting other committees and activities. I think I can say
without prejudice that you are witnessing the best session this
morning.
No one challenges the remark ? We will let it stand for the record .
We welcome you. Now back to the hearings. Mr. May and Mr.
Kopecky, we will have you open the hearings.Will you please stand
and be sworn in at this time? Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly
swear that the testimony you are about to give before this committee
will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth , so help
you God ?
Mr. W .May. I do.
Mr.KOPECKY. I do.
Mr. BLATNIK .Mr.WalterMay,chiefcounsel of theSpecial Subcom
mittee on the Federal-Aid Highway Program , you are recognized .
Mr. W . May. Mr. Chairman, from time to time during the course
of these hearings, Mr. Kopecky, of the staff, and I may be offering
testimony. That is why we asked to be sworn in at this time. May we
call as our first witness Mr. Charles W . Prisk .
Mr. BLATNIK.Mr. Charles W . Prisk is the Deputy Director, Office
of Traffic Operations, Bureau of Public Roads, U .S . Department of
Transportation. Please stand up, Mr. Prisk . Raise your right hand .
Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before
this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
butthe truth, so help you God ?
Mr. PRISK . I do.
Mr. BLATNIK . Please be seated.Mr.May.
Mr. May. Mr. Prisk, will you identify yourself for the record ,
please ?
TESTIMONY OF CHARLES W . PRISK , DEPUTY DIRECTOR , OFFICE
OF TRAFFIC OPERATIONS, BUREAU OF PUBLIC ROADS, U.S. DE
PARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Mr. PRISK . I serve presently as Deputy Director in the Office of
Traffic Operationsat the Bureau of Public Roads, in the Department
of Transportation.
My education has been in the field of civil engineering. I have had
graduate training at the Yale Bureau ofHighway Traffic, in the field
oftraffic engineering
This has been largely my career, in traffic engineering. I have
approximately 4 years of highway department experience in
Connecticut.
In 1935 I started with the Bureau of Public Roads working in the
fieldsof planning and in traffic and research , and have continued until
this time, gradually increasing my specialization in safety.
I wasmade responsible in 1957 for the conduct ofthe study directed
by this committee, by the Subcommittee on Roads of this committee,
and was the principal author of a report on the Federal role in high
way safety. This was the result of an exhaustive 3-year study directed
to highway safety needs as they were seen at that time, at the outset
ofthe Interstate program .
I served as assistant to the Commissioner of Research in the Bureau
of Public Roads, and from that post went to my present position as
Deputy Director, first in the Office of Highway Safety which was or
ganized in 1961 in the Bureau of Public Roads, and this office has very
recently been changed to Office of Traffic Operations. I continue in
that post.
My affiliations, professionally, have been with a number ofnational
organizations. I think perhaps the most important for the record and
this committee is the fact I have served since 1944 with the American
Association of State Highway Officials committees in the traffic field ,
presently as the secretary of two of its committees concerned with
traffic matters.
I was Chairman ofthe Highway Safety Committee of the Highway
Research Board from 1962 to 1967. I am a member of the advisory sec
tion on their cooperative research program , which is participated in by
all of the State highway departments and the Bureau of Public Roads.
I did have the honor, about 10 years ago, of serving as president of
the Institute of Traffic Engineers and have been head of its interna
tionalrelations committee for the past severalyears.
One other responsibility possibly related to the work of this com
mittee, as you start your investigation, is the function that I perform
as vice chairman of the National Joint Committee on Uniform Traffic
Control Devices. This is the standardization body responsible to five
principalnational organizations for the development of standards for
traffic control devices.
I havebeen associated with the NationalSafety Council and worked
with its traffic conference,and am a memberof several overseas groups
also which are concerned with traffic and safety work ,both operational
and in the research field.
I think maybe this is enough ,Mr. Chairman, to give you an idea of
thedeep interest Ihold in the subject you discusstoday.
Mr. W . May. Mr. Chairman ,Mr. Prisk is actively associated with
a two-page list of organizations related to traffic engineering and
safety on the highways. Also I notice Mr. Prisk has received two com
mendations,one from the U .S .Departmentof Commerce, SilverMedal
of Merit in 1952, and second, the Matson Memorial Award for out
standing contribution to the advancement of traffic engineering in
1959.
Mr. Chairman, as has been customary in the past, during this cur
rent effort cooperation received by the staff from all agencies and
persons has been superb . As an example of this, I would like to ex
plain that Mr. Prisk , for some time now , has been assigned by the
Department of Transportation , Bureau of Public Roads, to the sub
committee to render us aid and assistance. That he has done. He will

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12 16 - hdsd&o todo

  • 1. HIGHWAY SAFETY, DESIGN AND OPERATIONS Roadside Hazards TUESDAY, MAY 23, 1967 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE FEDERAL-AiD HIGHWAY PROGRAM OF THE COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS, Washington , D .C . The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 :15 a .m ., in room 2167, Rayburn Building, Hon. John A . Blatnik, chairman, presiding. Present : Messrs. Fallon (chairman ), Blatnik (subcommittee chair man ), Wright, Johnson, McCarthy, Howard, Cramer, Cleveland, Clausen , Duncan, Schadeberg ,Zion,McDonald , and Denny. Also present: Walter R . May, chief counsel; Robert L . May,mi nority counsel; George M . Kopecky, chief investigator ; Robert G . Lawrence, associate counsel; Salvatore J. D 'Amico ; Paul R . S . Yates, minority professional staff member ; Stuart M . Harrison , staff assist ant; Mrs. Mildred Rupert, staff assistant; Miss Agnes GaNun, staff assistant; Mrs. Shirley Knighten , staff assistant; and Mrs. Kathryn Keeney, chief clerk. Staff, Committee on Public Works: Richard J. Sullivan, chief counsel, and Clifton W . Enfield,minority counsel. Bureau of Public Roads: Charles Harrell, visual information specialist. *Mr. BLATNIK . The Special Subcommittee on the Federal-Aid High way Program of the House Committee on Public Works will please come to order. The significance of the testimony which you are about to hear in these series of public hearings beginning today and its important bearing on the lives and futures of millions of our citizens and the graphic materialpresented willmake itself clear as therecord unfolds. Now I have an introductory statement to read at this point, which we usually do at the beginning of these hearings, and the minority leader will be recognized immediately following that for any state mentor comments which he deemsappropriate, which usually are very pertinentand to the point. Webegin today a series of hearingsto inquire into certain questions bearing upon the design and operational efficiency of our highways. In the carrying out of our ambitious highway program under the termsand spirit of the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956 , it is abso lutely essential that every aspect of the program be performed in such a way as to preserve the confidence of Congress and of the American people. At the present time, weare spending more than $4 billion - these are Federal funds a year out of the highway trust fund for our Federal (1)
  • 2. aid programs. More than $ 3 billion of this sum is being expended for work on the Interstate System and the remaining $ 1 billion for the primary, secondary ,and urban construction . In the past decademore than $45 billion has been committed to these programs, the Federal share alone ofthis $45 billion being in excess of $33 billion . Without question tremendous progress has been made since 1956. The Federal Government, the States and industry have,acting in con cert,made great strides from a small beginning. There ismuch atwhich wemay point with pride. Nevertheless, in a program so vast, it could be expected that the way would not always be smooth , nor free from human error or occa sional failure. Ourhearings in thepast have shown that such is, in fact, the case. However, as our hearings have identified various deficiencies and weaknesses which were affecting the program , the response of the Bureau of Public Roads, the American Association of State Highway Officials, individual State highway departments, and other interested organizations, has been prompt and effective. This willingness to act and the corrective measures taken have been most gratifying to the committee. While I don 't normally care to anticipate the substance of public testimony we are going to hear, this time I feel compelled to do so to some degree because the matters concern the safety and well-being of our citizens. Weneed not dwell here on thedeaths, the suffering, and the economic costs involved in this Nation's automobile accident toll. The Federal legislation passed last year and the programs underway are designed to attack this tragic problem . Without question, in time there will be success. However, I am con cerned about the timeelement particularly, because I am certain that significant results can be accomplished right now . Material developed by the staff has convinced methat there is more that can be accomplished in the design of our highways from a safety standpoint. If unnecessary hazardous features continue to be designed and built into our new highways, we must take steps to identify and eliminate them . It is late. This is 1967 and more than one-half of the Interstate Sys tem has been completed and opened to traffic . In a program where Federal funds alone are being spent at the rate of over $ 10 million a day and where certain built-in mistakes may be suffered for decades, great urgency must attach to required changes. This subcommittee again expects the responsible officials of the Fed eral and State Governments and other organizations associated with the highway fraternity to give attention to these hearings and, work ing cooperatively,expedite needed improvements. That concludesmy statement. Now I will be pleased to recognize the gentleman from Florida,Mr. Cramer. Mr. CRAMER. Thank you very much ,Mr. Chairman, and of course I join you in your remarks and would like to add a few comments ofmy own. It is interesting to reflect on the factmuch has been said in ( on gress, particularly in recent years, with regard to automobile safety, and Congress has passed legislation to provide for safety features to
  • 3. be included in automobile construction to guarantee the automobile purchaser with the maximum amount of safety features in the auto mobile. That is one side of the coin . The other side of the coin is the building of safety features into the highways themselves and, as I understand, that is the subject matter of these deliberations. The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, enacted nearly 11 years ago, imposed a tremendous task upon the State highway departments and the Bureau of Public Roads, in that they were asked to build the greatest public works project in history - 41,000 miles of high -speed , access-controlled highways, in addition to the regular Federal-aid high way program ,and to do this within a limited period of time. The Interstate System will not be completed on schedule, but this is largely because of lack of adequate financing, not because of failure of our highway builders. In terms of production, the location and building of highways, the State highway departments and the Bureau ofPublic Roads have done amagnificent job . Despite this fine work , or more likely because of it, not enough attention has been given to making our highways as safe as possible. The sheer magnitude of the job of locating, designing, and building a 41,000 -mile system of high-speed highways within a limited timemay have so occupied the timeand attention of our highway builders that they overlooked some safety measures which now appear obvious. Whatever the reason, it is apparent that there are many unnecessary hazards within the rights-of-way of our most modern highways. Any observant driver can point out some of these hazards, such as culverts, bridge piers, unnecessary signs, improperly placed guardrails, deep ditches, and steep cut and fill banks, and trees and boulders which "beautify " the highway. Collision with any of these can kill a motorist who has themisfortune to drive or be forced off the paved roadway. Drivers veer off high -speed highways for a variety of reasons. In some cases the driver is at fault; he may be drunk, speeding, careless, or asleep. In other cases careful, law -abiding drivers may swerve to miss a child or an animal or a disabled car,may hit a slick or icy spot, orbe forced off thehighway by another car. Regardless of the reasons why a driver may leave the paved portion of a high -speed highway, roadside areas should be sufficiently clear of obstructions to give him an opportunity to regain control of his car. He and his passengers should be given a reasonable chance of survival and not be faced with the death penalty for a comparatively minor error. Drivers and their passengershave notbeen given that chance in many instances in the past. According to figures published by the National Safety Council, out of 49,000 traffic fatalities in 1965, 17,100— or 35 percent- were the result of single-car accidents in which cars left the roadway and overturned or collided with something. A substantial number of these 17,100 people — and thousands killed in other years — might be alive if more attention had been paid to clear, unobstructed roadside areas. Past investigations and hearings of this subcommittee have resulted in the highway departments and the Bureau of Public Roads focusing increased attention on important elements of the Federal-aid highway program ,and I congratulate the subcommittee for getting those results. I am satisfied that these hearingswill prove equally as valuable as any
  • 4. wehave held thus far,becausethey will result, Ibelieve, in saving lives as well asmoney. Thank you,Mr. Chairman. Mr. BLATNIK . I thank the gentleman from Florida. One brief an nouncement. Weare very pleased to have with us in the audience in attendance this morning about 60 students from Broome Junior High School and Richard Montgomery High School over in Rockville, Md. These students are sitting over there. We welcome you. You are accompanied by two of your teachers, Mrs. Gail Auricchio and Mr. Ronald Burdette. These students are a part of a larger group, as I understand. Is that true ? About 130 students of the total group is visiting Capitol Hill and visiting other committees and activities. I think I can say without prejudice that you are witnessing the best session this morning. No one challenges the remark ? We will let it stand for the record . We welcome you. Now back to the hearings. Mr. May and Mr. Kopecky, we will have you open the hearings.Will you please stand and be sworn in at this time? Raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth , so help you God ? Mr. W .May. I do. Mr.KOPECKY. I do. Mr. BLATNIK .Mr.WalterMay,chiefcounsel of theSpecial Subcom mittee on the Federal-Aid Highway Program , you are recognized . Mr. W . May. Mr. Chairman, from time to time during the course of these hearings, Mr. Kopecky, of the staff, and I may be offering testimony. That is why we asked to be sworn in at this time. May we call as our first witness Mr. Charles W . Prisk . Mr. BLATNIK.Mr. Charles W . Prisk is the Deputy Director, Office of Traffic Operations, Bureau of Public Roads, U .S . Department of Transportation. Please stand up, Mr. Prisk . Raise your right hand . Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing butthe truth, so help you God ? Mr. PRISK . I do. Mr. BLATNIK . Please be seated.Mr.May. Mr. May. Mr. Prisk, will you identify yourself for the record , please ? TESTIMONY OF CHARLES W . PRISK , DEPUTY DIRECTOR , OFFICE OF TRAFFIC OPERATIONS, BUREAU OF PUBLIC ROADS, U.S. DE PARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Mr. PRISK . I serve presently as Deputy Director in the Office of Traffic Operationsat the Bureau of Public Roads, in the Department of Transportation. My education has been in the field of civil engineering. I have had graduate training at the Yale Bureau ofHighway Traffic, in the field oftraffic engineering This has been largely my career, in traffic engineering. I have approximately 4 years of highway department experience in Connecticut.
  • 5. In 1935 I started with the Bureau of Public Roads working in the fieldsof planning and in traffic and research , and have continued until this time, gradually increasing my specialization in safety. I wasmade responsible in 1957 for the conduct ofthe study directed by this committee, by the Subcommittee on Roads of this committee, and was the principal author of a report on the Federal role in high way safety. This was the result of an exhaustive 3-year study directed to highway safety needs as they were seen at that time, at the outset ofthe Interstate program . I served as assistant to the Commissioner of Research in the Bureau of Public Roads, and from that post went to my present position as Deputy Director, first in the Office of Highway Safety which was or ganized in 1961 in the Bureau of Public Roads, and this office has very recently been changed to Office of Traffic Operations. I continue in that post. My affiliations, professionally, have been with a number ofnational organizations. I think perhaps the most important for the record and this committee is the fact I have served since 1944 with the American Association of State Highway Officials committees in the traffic field , presently as the secretary of two of its committees concerned with traffic matters. I was Chairman ofthe Highway Safety Committee of the Highway Research Board from 1962 to 1967. I am a member of the advisory sec tion on their cooperative research program , which is participated in by all of the State highway departments and the Bureau of Public Roads. I did have the honor, about 10 years ago, of serving as president of the Institute of Traffic Engineers and have been head of its interna tionalrelations committee for the past severalyears. One other responsibility possibly related to the work of this com mittee, as you start your investigation, is the function that I perform as vice chairman of the National Joint Committee on Uniform Traffic Control Devices. This is the standardization body responsible to five principalnational organizations for the development of standards for traffic control devices. I havebeen associated with the NationalSafety Council and worked with its traffic conference,and am a memberof several overseas groups also which are concerned with traffic and safety work ,both operational and in the research field. I think maybe this is enough ,Mr. Chairman, to give you an idea of thedeep interest Ihold in the subject you discusstoday. Mr. W . May. Mr. Chairman ,Mr. Prisk is actively associated with a two-page list of organizations related to traffic engineering and safety on the highways. Also I notice Mr. Prisk has received two com mendations,one from the U .S .Departmentof Commerce, SilverMedal of Merit in 1952, and second, the Matson Memorial Award for out standing contribution to the advancement of traffic engineering in 1959. Mr. Chairman, as has been customary in the past, during this cur rent effort cooperation received by the staff from all agencies and persons has been superb . As an example of this, I would like to ex plain that Mr. Prisk , for some time now , has been assigned by the Department of Transportation , Bureau of Public Roads, to the sub committee to render us aid and assistance. That he has done. He will