I mean, she doesn't have -- she doesn't really express a lot of opinions in the book, she just prese...

1. CNN.com - Transcripts
I mean, she doesn't have -- she doesn't really express a lot of opinions in the book, she just presents
the facts. Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Tomorrow night, Karen Hughes, former top aide to President Bush. And you know, back in
some the medical records -- they medical records did indicate some psychosis, but that was never
relayed to me.
KING: Was there some malpractice here, in your opinion?
YATES: Yes, but we've basically let the statute of limitations lapse, and you know, so...
KING: As you think back, David, did Susan ever give you any indications of being a little bit off-
kilter?
SMITH: No. And I...
KING: But you had no suspicion of her, right?
SMITH: Oh, no. From my understanding, mine were very -- you know, they were in the water for
nine days, so they were very decomposed, and they suggested that I didn't see them, and so I took
that. Is it true that you hired someone to smash the bathtub the children were drowned in?
YATES: It was part of my renovation, but yes, I mean, I renovated parts of the house, you know, to
put it up for sale, and he did. If they look the same or act the same in some way or...
SMITH: That's right.
YATES: Yes, I've seen that before, too. Prior to the killings of his children, did he ever try to get any
help or treatment for his wife for any other illnesses?
YATES: Any other illnesses? No. So you know, I can't blame her for getting ill.
KING: So you visit her, right?
YATES: I visit her every two weeks, yes.
KING: When was the last time you saw her?
YATES: Two days, Saturday, yes.
KING: How's she doing?
YATES: Saturday, she was doing pretty good, you know, but over the course of the past, you know,
two-and-a-half years, she really has been not -- not any -- there hasn't been any really extended
period of time where she's been stable.

2. KING: Ronkonkoma, New York, hello. So they said OK.
KING: You have not -- you won't let up on this, huh?
SMITH: No. We'll be right back.
KING: So you never had a thought, I could have prevented this?
YATES: I mean, obviously there are things I could have done, but when I look at it from the time
going through it, did I act reasonably given what I knew of the situation at the time? Overall, I would
say yeah, there are some things I would do differently.
KING: On Ebay or something.
YATES: Yes, she never said anything like that. It just seems so unfair that somebody could take such
two beautiful children.
YATES: Yes.
KING: How old will she be?
SMITH: About 53, 54. I mean, what his -- you know, his wife's circumstances were different. All of
our focus was on Andrea and trying to get her well, help her through this, you know, sickness.
Absolutely. There are reasons why people do things. I think that he really absorbs part of the guilt,
that's why he's sticking by her. There was never any indication of that, but there are symptoms of
psychosis, and you know had the doctors, you know, recognized those symptoms and kept her in the
hospital, then this wouldn't have happened. She was hospitalized twice in '99, twice again in 2001.
CALLER: Hi, this question is for David. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE
UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, when mothers murder their children, how do the fathers cope? Susan
Smith shocked the nation when she drowned her two boys in a lake. Aaron will be up at 5:00 in the
morning, I'll be up at 2:00 in the morning. My question is to Rusty. And I didn't realize how
meaningful that would be, but it really was.
KING: Did you see your children?
SMITH: No. You don't give your children up, you know, in this small town, in front of the -- you
know, in front of the whole town, especially when you're pretty much a, you know, prominent family
at that time.
Return to Transcripts main page
CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Interview With David Smith, Rusty Yates
Aired March 29, 2004 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. I had read an article stating that Susan's stepfather was sexually

3. abusing her even up to two weeks prior to the deaths of the children, and that she had felt hopeless
in stopping it. I really think that the reason, and because I'm from Houston, we probably had more
coverage of the case than any other city, I think he really -- he's taking part of the guilt, because like
she said, after '99, when she was in the psychiatrist, that woman should have never been left alone
with those children, two nights before at a psychiatrist, and they should not have had more children
with her problems. I was a very good father to my children. She was a great mother.
KING: Columbus, Ohio.
KING: And that was over when this happened.
KING: Tampa, hello. You know, unlike Andrea. And I was wondering, who had custody of the boys
when this all happened?
SMITH: Susan.
CALLER: And why didn't he -- why didn't she let him have custody if she didn't want the boys?
KING: Yes, why didn't she -- all right, she wants to marry this guy. I did see autopsy photos and we
did have a visitation for the children, which was really meaningful to me. Hello.
CALLER: Hi.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: How're you doing? My question to Rusty is this. So that's where I feel kind of helpless.
They've been through unspeakable pain, they're speaking to you and to other callers.
KING: How could have you gone home?
YATES: Well, it's kind of hard, but there's good memories there, too. And after a while, I figured it
out, what had happened.
KING: But how about the pain?
YATES: The pain is tremendous. He was shocked.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with a lot more phone calls for David Smith and Rusty Yates
on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
Karen Hughes will be with us tomorrow night, the former top aide to President Bush, who's going to
get involved in the campaign. I mean, I have a beautiful daughter and I have a beautiful son now,
who's 14 months old.
CALLER: I'd like to say something to Mr.
SMITH: Yes. What do you think was the key to giving her life?
SMITH: I think it was because her trial was in Union, and the jurors had to face, you know, her
family. I mean, Andrea and I, you know, we've talked a lot about, you know, where to go from here,
you know, with this. I mean, there's no going back and...

4. KING: Are you very religious?
YATES: I am.
KING: Yes. She called 911 and reported that she'd killed the boys with a rock. The book about this --
and Rusty's not appearing for the book, are you, it's just the fact that a book just did come out -- is
called "The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates." We'll be right back with your calls.
KING: You don't know what their reports are or anything?
SMITH: No. And even if that were to come about and she were ever free, you know, then there's a
trust issue.
CALLER: My question is really for both gentlemen.
KING: You will appeal and fight it. Susan didn't have any, you know, signs that anything was wrong.
5:00 a.m. I think those exacerbated her condition.
CALLER: Hi, I just had a basically a comment for Rusty. But I think, to answer the second part of the
question, it's because Lear (ph) is a small town. Yeah.
KING: What would you say to David?
YATES: Well, I feel for David, every time, you know, like when we were showing the scenes on there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KING: Before we get back to the calls, Deeian Alaney (ph) is charged with
murdering her 8-year-old son Joshua and her 6-year-old son Luke, and injuring the 15-month-old son
Aaron. None of us have training in psychosis to know she could have possibly been dangerous, and I
did seek medical treatment. Are you shocked at that, David?
SMITH: No, no. Hello.
CALLER: Yes. And I think if it had been any other county, she would have got the death penalty.
KING: And it's funny, in "Six Degrees of Separation," which we often talk about, the man that she
was dating that didn't want children, although it was not his fault that any death occurred,
graduated from Auburn University...
SMITH: Right.
KING: ... How are you? First I want to appreciate -- I'd like to tell you that we appreciate your
honesty, and your frankness on your show.
KING: Was Susan ever on any kind of medication?
SMITH: No, not that I'm aware of. But it -- you know, really, people had kind of made up their minds
early on about, you know, what our family was like, and the circumstances of...
KING: But you were supportive from the start, right?
YATES: I've always been supportive. And I don't understand.

5. KING: we can't comprehend it. Andrea was convicted of the drowning murders of three of the five
children, sentenced to life in prison, is eligible for parole March of 2042.
David, you have -- you since have had a new little boy?
DAVID SMITH, EX-WIFE, SUSAN, KILLED THEIR 2 CHILDREN: Yes.
KING: Nicholas.
SMITH: Nicholas, yes.
KING: How's he doing? And ho ware you -- how have you dealt with having another child?
SMITH: Well, it's been a long road getting there, but -- I don't know. I love you so much!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: By the way, Rusty has a Web site in his children's memory called yateskids.org, right?
YATES: Yes.
KING: And Rusty still is with NASA, and David manages a Wal-Mart superstore in Spartanburg. I
mean, my mind -- my ex-wife lied for nine days, she was trying to get away with it. Not a reasonable
one, no.
KING: What was the accepted reason? What did she say?
SMITH: Well, to me, it was greed.
KING: She wanted what?
SMITH: She wanted to be with a rich young gentleman that she was dating at the time.
KING: Were you separated at the time?
SMITH: Yes.
KING: I see. I mean, she remembers, you know?
KING: Does she have remorse?
YATES: Absolutely.
What's your read on that, Rusty?
YATES: I think she was psychotic. That's what they told me, so...
KING: For the last birth?
YATES: In '99 and 2001 both. There's no way we could ever imagine that. That wouldn't look good.

6. KING: How did you learn your children had died before you knew it was Susan?
SMITH: Well, I was at work, and I got a call from Sheriff Hardwell (ph) that -- well, actually, Susan
was on the phone first, and I couldn't understand what she was saying, she was babbling so much. I
don't know about looking into the case again, and I don't know whether that will be on any of the
points of appeal. And I never have even read the autopsy report or anything.
KING: Never saw the autopsy? SMITH: No.
KING: Do you understand his feelings?
YATES: I do, yes. I don't think Susan should ever have freedom again for what she's done. Yes.
KING: We'll take a break. David?
SMITH: I was on medication when it first happened, and then I was off for many years, but I have
had to just start back taking medication again. By the way, did you think when the tragedy happened
with Columbia, did you want to go to that scene?
YATES: Well, I was actually headed up to see Andrea that day when a lot of the debris from the
Columbia fell right over (UNINTELLIGIBLE), where she's at, I mean, she's basically in the middle of
the flight path. And David, by the way, manages a Wal-Mart store in Spartanburg, South Carolina.
Russell "Rusty" Yates is the husband of convicted child killer Andrea Yates, father of five children
Andrea Yates drowned in the family bathtub on June 20, 2001. Boston.
SMITH: It runs through my mind a million times. I mean, up to the very end, Susan was a very good
mother. And if -- and that's true with any tragedy, I mean, but you know, the things I would do
differently, you know, I...
KING: Well, no mother -- has children ever taken away from the mother from postpartum
depression? I'd never heard of that.
YATES: I'm sorry?
KING: I mean, when a mother has postpartum depression, I'd never heard of children being taken
away. I can be angry at them for what they do but I'm not going to condemn them for what they do.
You can't just give the children up.
KING: It was a prominent family?
SMITH: Yes.
KING: Are you married to the young lady now?
SMITH: I'm married to Tiffany, yeah.
CALLER: Mr. Here they are sitting side by side. When we did, when I say, that was on the order of a
couple of months until things got bad and we sought treatment for it. And she didn't say that -- you
know, what had happened.

7. KING: Certainly no mental kind of...
SMITH: No, certainly not. Her ex-husband, David Smith, speaks out about the grief he's struggled
with for nearly a decade. You know, the fact -- like what David was saying. We struggled with that a
bit.
KING: You must have thought about it 100 times. Nicholas is really special, being the first boy.
KING: Thank you both very much. I guess in that respect, I don't see that I could have done much
more for my kids or before or after, you know. Do you recall that?
ANDREA YATES: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And explain how that would work then. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN SMITH: I love 'em. The cops were there, and they told me right when I walked in the gate,
you know, that -- what had happened, so...
KING: How did you -- were you -- first, you knew she was sick, right? You knew she was having
problems. This is for David.
CALLER: Yes, this is a question for both the gentlemen. I don't think we should condemn people at
all. What they told us in 1999, was that she had postpartum depression, if we had another child
there was a 50/50 chance she'd become depressed again and if she did, she'd have the same
symptoms and require the same treatment. You know, people on the jury might have had a brother,
a sister, a mother or father who had an account with her stepfather. So that's -- to me -- to be with
him, she had to get rid of the children, but you just can't give them up. Absolutely. We're going to
include your phone calls for David Smith and Rusty Yates, two similarly different stories.
CALLER: Hi, Mr. Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN SMITH: The night that this happened, before I left my house that night, Michael did
something that he's never done before. She's always been, always has wanted to be the center of
attention since I've known her. And I think it's very clear that Andrea was psychotic at that time and
-- yes.
KING: Does she realize what she did?
YATES: Andrea? Yes. David manages a Wal-mart superstore in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Do you
believe in God? You do believe...
YATES: Absolutely, yes.
KING: And does she believe in God?
YATES: Yes. Andrea, the two medications she was on at the time of the tragedy are both on that list,
Rimaron (ph) and Effexor, and in fact they're given in combination together, they have an even

8. stronger effect than separately. She was successfully treated at that time. I mean, you just take it
day by day. You know, nothing to take away from Savannah, my daughter, but it was really unique
having another boy again.
KING: Do you worry more about him? SMITH: No, I don't worry about him, but I tend to just --
there's a special bond between -- you know, that I have for him that's just phenomenal.
KING: The two boys you lost were how old?
SMITH: Michael was 3 and Alex was 14 months.
KING: Now, David, you have not visited your wife, right?
SMITH: No, I have not.
KING: Not supportive of her?
SMITH: No.
KING: Think she got what she deserved.
SMITH: No, I don't.
KING: In fact, you thought she should have been...
SMITH: Death penalty, yes.
KING: Executed.
SMITH: Right.
KING: Rusty, you are supportive of your wife. We'll be including your phone calls. That's all I saw of
her that day.
KING: Did you see any of the bodies?
YATES: No. But we had heard nothing official from any -- you know, anybody credible yet. And then
they finally announced that -- Sheriff Wells (ph) came on TV and announced that Susan had been
arrested and charged with the death of Michael and Alex.
KING: Do you know why she finally confessed?
SMITH: No, I -- I just -- I think they finally just wore her down. And just recently, she put a request in
to go to an outside dentistry, so they called me and got my opinion on that.
KING: What did you say?
SMITH: I told them no, that I don't want her going outside the prison walls.
KING: So she's going to adapt to prison life and have relations with guards? SMITH: That and just
whatever else, I think, she'll always do something to stir up, you know, attention for herself, which

9. will in turn bring attention to me.
KING: They did have a relationship in addition to seeing this other guy?
SMITH: Yes.
YATES: Right. When Susan becomes eligible for parole, is it your intention to fight it?
SMITH: Yes, absolutely. But even then, there's a punitive element to the -- to that time. And I don't
believe that. Always.
KING: Houston, Texas, hello. I mean, she's sentenced to 40 years in prison. Mental illness, yes. And
two years ago this month, Andrea Yates was convicted of drowning her children in the family
bathtub. He was interviewed for the just published book, "Are You There Alone: The Unspeakable
Crime of Andrea Yates," by Suzanne O'Malley (ph). And if you had not taken their lives, what did you
think would happen to them?
ANDREA YATES: I guess they would have continued stumbling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where would they end up?
ANDREA YATES: Hell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In hell?
ANDREA YATES: Uh-huh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Rusty, what led to the book, "The Unspeakable Crime of Andrea Yates"?
YATES: What led to the book? Well, that's a book by Suzanne O'Malley, and she spent, you know,
two years researching the case and interviewed a lot of people. And I understand -- I mean the
circumstances are definitely different, so...
KING: Because she lied and...
YATES: Right. Don't go away. Why did you go on having two more children if she couldn't handle the

10. three she already had?
YATES: It was after the fourth. Why did they have to give up the ultimate gift that we have, which is
life?
KING: Was it especially worse that she lied and said the car was carjacked and everything...
SMITH: Absolutely, because...
KING: ... She is our special guest with a political panel to follow. In fact, Saturday, we did, but it's...
KING: Where can you go?
YATES: Well, I mean...
KING: She's not going to get out.
YATES: That's the reality of it, it's true. If someone's dangerous, take them off the street protect
citizens. She didn't have any depression after the first three. They were starting to rope off the road.
That keeps you occupied.
Let's go to calls for David Smith and Rusty Yates.
KING: Previous to Wal-Mart?
SMITH: Right, yeah. No.
KING: Rusty?
YATES: No. And then again in 2001, when she became ill, we sought medical treatment for her.
CALLER: First I'd like to say I'm really sorry for your losses.
KING: What was that like for you?
SMITH: It was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. We'd -- she'd been in treatment for
about three months at that time.
KING: Had she ever threatened the children?
YATES: No.
KING: Threatened to harm the children?
YATES: Absolutely not. That's a tough question for me to answer.
KING: You never saw an instance where she said, I'm hearing a voice that tells me to kill the kids. I
have put all my trust and faith in the Lord, that he's taking care of them and that he will bring them
home to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)

11. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP - JULY, 2001)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you trying to accomplish then, when you did take your children's
lives?
ANDREA YATES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) be in their innocent years and God would take them up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would be in their innocent years and God would take them up? Is that
what you said?
ANDREA YATES: Be with him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God would take them up to be in heaven? Is that what you mean?
ANDREA YATES: Uh-huh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right.
KING: That was a different woman than you had Savannah with. This is in Texas.
YATES: No, I'll always love and support Andrea. And just rely on family and God. I mean, I visited
her Saturday, and she cried and -- we both did.
KING: You are in an entirely different circumstance, though. I mean, that -- you know, people -- her
stepfather run an appliance store. People worked with her brother in the local textile mill. First of all
saying I'm nonchalant about this I think is not fair. Over 400 people work for him. And then I had my
son now, Nicholas, a young lady who's very dear to me.
KING: You're very understanding person. She's not in a mental hospital.
KING: Rusty, comment? That's understandable. She had depression after Luke in 1999.
KING: Waterbury, Connecticut, hello. She just -- she doesn't know what she's done to me. I mean,
they -- you know, Michael and Alex did nothing wrong. And every -- every case requires different
feelings and different emotions and...
KING: We'll be right back with David Smith and Rusty Yates on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE.
YATES: Exactly. People had accounts with him. We don't always understand them. KING: So what --
what -- what -- was she hearing a voice?
YATES: It's -- I think, at the time, you know, when somebody's psychotic, what happens is, is that
their -- you know, their ordinary, manageable concerns turn into, you know, delusional nightmares.
From the very beginning, I've been supportive of her and...
KING: Because you knew something was really wrong with her.
YATES: At first -- you know, the first hour or two, I did not. It's very nice. I know they didn't focus on
that very much during the trial. YATES: Well, at first, there wasn't much I could do because of the

12. gag order. I asked him to, because I didn't want anybody taking it and doing anything malicious with
it. Instead, they sent her home.
KING: To Alliston, Ontario, hello. It's refreshing. She -- her entire reality changed, and she believed
that the children were damaged, that she was a bad mother -- not that she was concerned about
being a bad mother, but she was a bad mother, and not, you know, just concerned about her
standing before God, but Satan was in her. We couldn't (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
KING: Have you come to a reasonable conclusion to yourself, David, as to why your wife did this?
SMITH: No.
KING: Susan, are you shocked she had relations with prison guards?
SMITH: No, not really. And the only bit I got to see her was when I ran around the back of the house
and peeked through our French doors and into the living room, where she sitting. Obviously, I mean,
if... You know, we have to look and say, What's the most constructive thing we can do, as society, in
a circumstance like this? And in her case, the most constructive thing to do is send her to a mental
institution until she's well.
KING: Are you dating?
YATES: No. Is this true, and can you comment on that, please?
SMITH: Well, he was -- he did sexually abuse her when she was, I believe 13 years of age but I don't
see how you can sexually abuse a 23-year-old woman. Rusty is a computer engineer with NASA. I
mean, I kind of tend to believe we can learn something from every tragedy. There are things along
those lines as far as seeking medical treatment, I mean, yes, there's one thing I would have done
differently. The truth that I want to ask these guys, is there anything that you've seen in what
happened that we can do to prevent this from happening to somebody else?
KING: David?
SMITH: Well, you know, I really -- with me, I don't really have an answer.
SMITH: Right.
SMITH: Yes.
SMITH: Right.
KING: To Constantine, Michigan, hello. I mean, it was -- from all indications, it was completely out of
character for her and in fact all of the experts for the defense and the state have found her legally
insane. And we talk -- there are no definite plans or anything, but you know, I can't say that's not a
possibility. So she was ordinarily concerned about being a good mother. A rare joint appearance by
two men who've had to deal with a father's worst nightmare exclusive next on LARRY KING LIVE.
In this very difficult situation, we appreciate both men appearing here together.
KING: The minister hurt her?

13. YATES: I do think so, yes. You know, Savannah is 3 now.
CALLER: Hello.
KING: Have psychiatrists treated Susan?
SMITH: Yes, she's had treatment, from my understanding. How much do you think that this may
have played into what, you know, the outcome. I mean, we -- you know, she -- we sought medical
treatment for her in 1999.
YATES: Yeah. So it wasn't all -- all troubling.
KING: Has faith helped you, your faith helped you?
YATES: Yes. Smith and especially Mr. Karen Hughes tomorrow night.
He's back.
SMITH: Well, it's very well. So she could date.
SMITH: Right.
KING: And this guy didn't want children around?
SMITH: Right. Hi Larry and David. He doesn't want children. She was ordinarily concerned about
being a good Christian.
KING: No kidding. It's like you can say responsibility, where I have a responsibility to my family for
the safety of my family, but I don't have the authority to hospitalize Andrea. She took very well care
of Michael and Alex, made sure they were always clean and, you know, kept them clothed very
nicely.
SMITH: Rusty, I guess just, I know it's tough, and I can say I've been there, what you're going
through. There's no doubt. I think what she did is horrible and, you know, hurt me, hurt our
children, hurt all of our families, but it doesn't mean that she needs to be punished. You see a little
boy, you hear a child with the same name, you do a double take when you look.
YATES: Exactly. I just can't express enough. Susan drowned her two sons, Michael and Alex, by
rolling her car into a South Carolina lake on October 24, 1994. And that's how twisted her -- her -- it
wasn't just thoughts, it was her reality changed to that extent. And it's, like, a natural consequence
of doing wrong. And was that a good thing or a bad thing, for you to be executed?
ANDREA YATES: It was probably a good thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? Why would that be a good thing for you to be executed?
ANDREA YATES: Because I'm not righteous.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because you're not righteous?
(END VIDEO CLIP) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

14. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN SMITH: I want to say to my babies that your mama loves you so much, and your daddy and
this whole family loves you so much. And then I have a beautiful...
KING: She's 3. We'll ask Rusty about that book and how it came about. And so I rushed home, and
when I got there, there was actually already a media truck there. So I definitely believe that was a
factor. But to me, there still was no reason or excuse or anything to murder your children. I admire
it. We were in the psychiatrist's office two nights before the tragedy.
KING: Was she labeled what, schizophrenic? No?
YATES: They told me she had post-partum depression. First, I want to say I'm very sorry, and I
admire you both, your respective ways that you've reconciled the situation.
KING: Do you believe they're somewhere?
SMITH: Yes, in heaven. I love him a lot. Yates, if I remember correctly, after you had your third
child, you noticed she was having depression. and the pictures of the two of you on television?
SMITH: Absolutely, because to me, she was, you know, trying to get away with it.
SMITH: Did I miss something, was I just naive to something, but Susan didn't have any signs.
Oklahoma, hello.
KING: Was Susan at the funeral?
SMITH: No, no. For example, in Andrea's case, better medical treatment certainly would have
prevented this. Why not call you up and say, I really want to marry this guy. It's a prison, so...
KING: So the sentence was guilty, right?
YATES: Yes.
KING: Life in prison.
YATES: Yes.
KING: Did anyone fight for the death penalty? Was that a death penalty case?
SMITH: Yes.
KING: But the jury voted...
SMITH: For life in prison, yes.
KING: For life. But you know, to her, I think she was -- she murdered them, and then she thought
that was going to bring her wealthy boyfriend running to her side to protect her because she had
just lost her children to a carjacker.
KING: You get to know him pretty well?

15. SMITH: No.
KING: But he testified at the trial, right?
SMITH: Yes.
KING: And he testified against her, right?
SMITH: Yes.
KING: So this had to be bizarre to him, too.
SMITH: Oh, absolutely. I never dealt with that before or seen it before, and you know, we let it
progress quite some time before we sought treatment for her. And then all of a sudden, our kids are
gone, you know, and it was just incomprehensible. And you know, I've never seen any crime scene
photos. She doesn't know the pain, the depression that she's put me through.
KING: How did you handle the media coverage, Rusty? Because they were critical of you sometimes
for being too supportive of her.
KING: But none of her mental illness gave you an indication of harming children. Well, it's life in
prison without possibility of parole for 40 years.
KING: Sure.
KING: You rolled the dice. And you know, it means a lot. And you guys have got to be strong because
you are -- I just know -- I just feel in my heart that you're OK, but you got to take care of each other.
CALLER: Hi, Larry.
KING: Hi.
CALLER: My question was for Rusty Yates. Small town. is first pitch.
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. You know, I...
KING: They had taken her away?
YATES: No, she was in the living room and she was on the couch and just sort of staring straight
ahead. I think if someone had come in from the outside and harmed my children in any way, I don't
think I could have forgiven them but after living through this with Andrea and learning that people
do things for reasons that a whole lifetime of experience and their unique chemistry, between those
two, it determines a lot of our behavior and so for all I know, if I grew up, say a perpetrator came
into my house and harmed my children, for all I know, if I grew up in their circumstances and their
body, I might have done the same or worse. She just said...
KING: What did she say?

16. YATES: She said, You need to come home. And that's something that -- that's why -- you know, we
knew she was sick, but we had absolutely no idea she was even possibly dangerous to the children,
no indication whatsoever.
KING: So this action was a total shock to you.
YATES: Absolutely a complete shock.
KING: I mean, it's beyond rational thinking.
The question part of that, I would say, at the time, I don't think I could have. You know, she was
trying to cover it up, and she did that for nine days, trying to get away it.
KING: So that added to your not only hurt but anger?
SMITH: Right.
KING: She's eligible in 2023 that's 19 years from now. So I definitely think the medication played a
part, someone asked me once, why June 20, why did it happen on that day? Her medications were
adjusted two days before. She is accused of bashing both boys to death with a rock on May 9 last
year. He made her at least more concerned than she would otherwise would have been about her
standing before God which in turn became a delusional thought for her.
KING: If she had called you and said, take the children, would you have?
SMITH: Oh, absolutely.
KING: No question about it?
SMITH: No question.
KING: Full custody, you got them all the time?
SMITH: Absolutely, all the way. I mean, something was surely wrong with her. She may win her
appeal and go to a mental institution. I mean, she...
KING: Had she called you?
YATES: She called me at work, and I rushed home.
KING: Do you have faith?
SMITH: Yes. So that's what psychosis will do to a person.
KING: Was a book ever written, David, about the Susan Smith case?
SMITH: There's a couple of them, yes.
KING: Yes? Do you ever hear about her in prison, how she is, what she's doing?
SMITH: Only when she causes some problem or something like that, they'll let me know.

17. KING: Like?
SMITH: Well, like when she was having the affairs with the prison guards, and then this...
KING: Female prison guards?
SMITH: No, male.
KING: Oh, male.
SMITH: Male. So it was just a network.
CALLER: Good evening. All I could do is say, How could you do this? I don't understand.
YATES: In other words, it was like worst case, it was something akin to the flu or about as serious as
what you might call the flu and yet we both loved children and we both were grateful for every one
of our children, and counted each a blessing and still do.
YATES: Well, that's nice, you know, hindsight commentary.
KING: You understand him.
KING: Hollywood, Florida, hello. I saw debris on the ground when I saw her that day.
KING: Did you ever see her hit the kids. I was curious about your specific religious persuasion. A
couple more phone calls right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Sutherland, Virginia, hello. So why they're prosecuting her, I don't know. So if you took your
children's lives, you felt you were doing http://www.everydayhealth.com/drugs/ondansetron what
was right for them, but you did know that it might result in your own execution. She has pled not
guilty by reason of insanity, claimed God told her to get her house in order. But you know, I don't
think -- in fact, I know that she would never have done what she did had she not been mentally ill.
Thank you.
KING: What is your denomination, David?
SMITH: I'm methodist. Rusty is a computer engineer with NASA in Houston. How did you meet your
wife?
SMITH: I met Tiffany at the grocery chain I was working for.
KING: And finally, London, Ontario, hello. And you know, having -- I mean, I can see, like David, how
much it means to him, you know, to have more children. I know you can't wait, Aaron, and I know
you'll be up.
YATES: Well, the doctors make a determination whether or not -- they don't take the children away,
but they hospitalize the mother, you know. She's eligible for parole November of 2023. There hasn't
been a whole lot in the way of trying to better understand her case so that they can work for
prevention, although I think they recognize Andrea's case is pretty textbook in the sense of

18. postpartum psychosis and bipolar.
SMITH: Yes. I learned a few things when I read the book. You don't love her anymore. David Smith,
the ex-husband of convicted child killer Susan Smith, and Rusty Yates, the husband of convicted
child killer, Andrea Yates, and I'll be back in a couple of minutes and tell you about tomorrow night.
It is.
KING: Of five kids!
YATES: It's absolutely devastating and -- but you know, in our society, we think, well, someone does
wrong, and we automatically they think need to be punished. I never felt comfortable with the
treatment that her doctor was giving her in 2001. It took us a while. I was, like, I wish we could go
back to where we were, you know? That's what she said to me. My question is this -- have either of
you gone on any medication to help you cope, and if so, has it helped?
KING: Good question.
CALLER: Yes, Larry, my question for your two guests is, has anyone from the mental health field
reached out to you, perhaps victim rights groups or even men that have been in this situation before
that perhaps better understand this and prevent this in the future?
KING: Rusty?
YATES: There have been some mental health professionals who have particularly taken an interest in
Andrea's case. Our guests both here in Los Angeles, David Smith, ex-husband of convicted child
killer Susan Smith, and Russell "Rusty" Yates the husband of convicted child killer Andrea Yates.
And we both feel the same way, you know, and the sad thing is, we can't.
YATES: I understand that. And Sheriff Hardwell got on the phone and told me where she was at and
what had happened, that I needed to get there right away. I was like, wow!, I'll see you again. And
your mama and daddy are going to be right here waiting on you when you get home.
KING: Freeport, The Bahamas, hello.
SMITH: Right. Yates. You can go to my website and see for yourself. We'll be taking your calls in a
while, as well. You're going to have...
KING: You feel it every day?
SMITH: Oh, absolutely.
KING: Every day.
SMITH: Every day.
KING: You see a little boy run down the street...
SMITH: Yes. Of course.
KING: So you think, had she come forward right away, and not knowing why she did such a thing
and had been more disturbed, you might have been more compassionate?

19. SMITH: More sympathetic, yes.
KING: Andrea did what, David -- Russ -- Rusty? How did you find out your kids were killed?
YATES: Oh, boy. She killed your five children.
RUSTY YATES, WIFE, ANDREA, KILLED THEIR 5 CHILDREN: Yes.
KING: Why?
YATES: Not supportive of what she did, obviously. KING: This book should help, though?
YATES: When the book is out it will help people understand the case and her illness. She -- I think
she finally gave up that she couldn't gate way with it.
KING: How was your wife when you arrived on the scene, Rusty?
YATES: I didn't get to see her. So in those respects, I couldn't do much more.
SMITH: Yes.
KING: We'll be back with our remaining moments. KING: Depression?
SMITH: Yes, anti-depression.
KING: There was a funeral?
SMITH: Yes. In fact, I was kind of surprised by that, but...
KING: You cooperated with her, though, right?
YATES: I let her interview me, sure.
KING: And was it her conclusion that there's something mentally wrong with Andrea?
YATES: Oh, I think it's pretty clear by the evidence in zofran lawsuit class action settlement the
book.
KING: Tell me about your relationship, David, how you met the girl. That's what he told her in the
letter, that he didn't want a ready-made family. And my advice is when things get really bad, when it
gets -- you know, things get really hard, just remember that you have overcome one of the toughest
things that any person can go through, and when I do that, it doesn't seem the problem that I'm
going through at the time, that I'm dealing with, doesn't seem so big anymore, because I know I've
walked through the biggest -- come out on the other side of one of the biggest, greatest losses a
person can endure. When I got to the house that day. "NEWSNIGHT's" Aaron Brown and we're both
so excited. I wonder if there's anything David and Rusty need or want to say to each other. Your wife
was on an incredible amount of medications over the years before this all happened. She will be very
involved in the campaign.
KING: Did you go to your service for your kids, David?

20. SMITH: Yes. So if you were punished, what would happen? How would you be punished?
ANDREA YATES: By being executed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
KING: Rusty?
YATES: I think in our case, I think in most cases, you know, you can learn a lot from tragedy and
work for prevention. So what we thought, looking ahead, was that if we had another child and she
exhibited signs of depression, get treatment for her very quickly, and they would have used the same
combinations of medications that worked in 1999, and you know, it would not be severe. After we
sought treatment for it, it took some time for them to figure out what combinations of medications
worked for her.
KING: We'll take a break and be back with more calls on this edition of LARRY KING LIVE with
David Smith and Rusty Yates. It's just at this point, there's not a whole lot I can do for them other
than pray for them and memorialize them, which I'm trying to do. Yates, I think that he's speaking
very nonchalant about this death of his five children and he's so understanding that his wife had a
sickness, how would he feel if a stranger would have killed his question?
YATES: That's a good question. Yes.
KING: I know this is not easy.
CALLER: How are you doing?
KING: Fine. Yeah, I mean, as far as things I would do differently, I mean, to put it more
constructively, there are things I would do differently.
KING: And now that FDA study says that some of these drugs can cause people to do harm to
themselves or others.
KING: Differences here is you love your wife. And I said, Why? And she said, You need to come
home. I was wondering, he forgives his wife and everything, but would he ever pursue a relationship
with someone else and have children?
YATES: You know, Andrea and I have talked about that some. I believed her the whole time, the
whole nine days, 100 percent.
KING: What changed it? How did you learn it was her? How did it -- take us back.
SMITH: Well, that nine days -- she had left that morning for another interview, and then we started
hearing reports on TV about an alleged confession. But certainly, I mean, she's caused him
tremendous pain, and I think all of the anger he feels is certainly understandable, so...
KING: Do you understand Rusty.
SMITH: Yes. I have been to the Lord in prayers every day with my family and by myself, with my
husband.

21. KING: It's almost incomprehensible, David, right, to think that a parent could kill their own children?
SMITH: Yes.
CALLER: Hello, Larry, thanks for taking my call. In our society, we tend to, something goes bad, we
say let's punish the person instead of learning from it, why did they do what they did, what were the
factors that led up to their actions and see if there's anything we can correct in our society to help
prevent, at least reduce the likelihood of it happening again. So basically, you know, there was a lot
reported that wasn't true during the course -- you know, up and through the trial. And I've talked
with other people who have had losses like ours.
KING: You believe that?
YATES: Yes, I do. David Smith is the ex-husband of convicted child killer Susan Smith. Don't go
away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You'd mentioned earlier that Satan was within you. where Rusty Yates
graduated from just a couple years later.
YATES: That's true.
KING: How do you ever handle the loss of a child?
SMITH: You just -- sometimes have you to break it down to the next five minutes. My question is for
you, David. How could you do this? I don't understand. I mean, especially in dealing with our
children, you know, because you know, I thought up until the time of the funeral service I was just
thinking, I couldn't focus on anything but the loss, and in the funeral service when I was saying
good-bye to my children, I was saying good-bye to John, closing his casket and the thought dawned
on me, I'll see you again. She was convicted of murdering them and was subsequently sentenced to
life in prison.
KING: How soon after the incident did you sleep at home?
YATES: About a week, yeah.
KING: Halifax, Nova Scotia, hello.
KING: Did you stay in that house?
YATES: I stayed in there 14 months, and I have bean in an apartment since.
KING: And?
YATES: I currently go to a Church of Christ.
SMITH: Yes. He says he loves his wife and is standing by her. Take the boys.
SMITH: Because, first of all, she had custody. Her husband, Russell Yates, talks about that
unspeakable crime and why he's standing by her. You know, one thing, Andrea is not very good

22. about describing her needs, you know, and I definitely would have done more in terms of like our
living situation beforehand, I would have never introduced her to the minister we corresponded
with. Very much.
KING: In other words, if you met the right person, you would, wouldn't you?
YATES: We need to kind of get to a place where I'm free to do that with Andrea.
CALLER: hello?
KING: Hi. Before it happened.
SMITH: Thank you, Larry. I don't have the authority to prescribe medication, or the knowledge. Also,
with all the new warnings with the FDA on suicides and violence, do you think that there might be a
possibility of looking into her case again?
YATES: I think that's a very good question. I know exactly what he means. I mean, you know, when
someone causes you pain, you know, when you're in a position of trust with someone and they cause
you pain, it isn't really a logical thing, it's more of an instinctive thing that...
KING: There's never 100 percent trust.
YATES: I can't put myself in that trusting position with her again.
KING: I thought you said she's in a psychiatric prison.
YATES: She's in a psychiatric prison, but not a hospital. They all loved me and I had an outstanding
relationship with every one of them. I could probably, you know, and I plan to do some study on my
website to that effect, I mention I'll find half a dozen things that we could change in our society to
help prevent those types of things from happening, and actually maybe help even a broader segment
of our population. So everyone in there has some sort of mental condition that they're dealing with,
right?
YATES: Yes.
KING: Didn't you ever think, David, that something had to be wrong with Susan mentally to do what
she did?
SMITH: Oh, absolutely. That's the way it's going to be. The Yankees play the Devil Rays to open the
American League baseball season in Tokyo. You just can't give your kids up and say, I don't want
them anymore.
KING: But this way, they live.
SMITH: I know that. Afterwards, you know, I tried to appear and say a few things.
KING: Which they would have?
YATES: Yes, exactly. You'd been seeing doctors, right?
YATES: Right. You know, I mean, we're...

23. KING: You're still married?
YATES: Yeah. I didn't know why. That's one thing. And you know, he's been through tremendous
pain, not just the loss of his children, but you know, the -- you know, really the lying and betrayal
and deceit of his wife afterwards, and that was, you know, tremendously painful, and I just am glad
you're able to find some happiness in life now, and I hope it continues for you, you know. I never
want to. But again, you can't, she didn't appear dangerous. I kept going in and going in and
struggling with him and hopeful that this is going to work out, and it didn't. He had his fooper (ph) in
his mouth, and he came up to me and he took his fooper out, and he put his arms around me and he
told me, I love you so much, Mama.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. So I would definitely have taken her to another doctor.
She was consensual to it and agreed to it and that had been going on for I think about eight months
and she never tried to stop it. KING: Sure, with hindsight. She was concerned about the
development of our children.
And then when she became sick, all those ordinary concerns were twisted into, like, a delusional
reality for her. She's on five or six medications right now, and you know, they're still adjusting her
medications, so...
KING: What is her prison situation?
YATES: She's in a psychiatric prison.
KING: A psychiatric prison