2. AGENDA
0 Essay #3 Questions or Comments
0 Group Discussions: Justice and A
Game of Thrones
0 Get into your teams to consider the
application of Cicero and Thoreau
to A Game of Thrones
0 Class discussion: Cicero/Thoreau
and A Game of Thrones
4. Why look at GOT through the
lenses of philosophy texts
0 EWRT 2 aims at providing the tools for both meaningful reading
and critical thinking. Intertextuality expands the scope of text
interpretation beyond the reader, carrying it to the meeting place
of texts.
0 The challenge of developing intertextual aptitudes develops
conceptual, curricular, and methodological perspectives.
0 Using a theoretical or philosophical lens, that is viewing a novel
from a particular perspective, fosters thinking development, the
use of broad lateral thinking, associative thinking, focusing, and
critical thinking.
0 The practice of frequently using intertextual aptitudes helps to
develop a habit of mind that includes complex thinking, creative
insights, and speculative conclusions.
5. Group Discussions: Justice and
A Game of Thrones
Get into your
teams to consider
the application of
Cicero and
Thoreau to A
Game of Thrones.
Make sure to find
textual evidence
to support your
claims.
Injustice
6.
7.
8. The quote "Philus is chosen to make this argument
in part because he has a reputation for being
impeccably honest, is profoundly committed to
justice, and is the last person one would connect
with a speech against justice." (120) When I read
this quote it instantly reminded me of Ned, he lives
by his morals and will do everything to achieve
justice. Philus like Ned is forced into injustice.
These two are similar in the way that they are
respected for there honor and integrity but it
shows two different fates. And that pure honesty is
simply impossible to achieve.
9. 0 "Let us imagine that there are two men, one a
paragon of virtue, fairness, justice, and
honesty, and the other an outrageous ruffian
[...]" (128). In Cicero's paragraph 20, he
discusses and compares the difference
between a person who is bad and a person
who is good, explaining that the person who
is good is: "attacked, seized, imprisoned,
blinded, convicted, chained, branded,
expelled, and beggared, so that everyone
feels, quite rightly, that he is the most
wretched man alive. " (128). While the bad
person is: "praised, courted, and loved by one
and all." (128)
0 In A Game of Thrones, the
good person would be Lord
Eddard Stark, while the
bad person would be Lord
Petyr Baelish, two
contrasting characters with
an affiliation of their
connection to Catelyn
Stark. Both of these
characters, carry out their
supposed roles of good and
bad and meet their fate.
10. “‘Surely you did not think I’d forgotten
about your sweet innocent, my lord? The
queen most certainly has not.’
‘No,’ Ned pleaded, his voice cracking.
‘Varys, gods have mercy, do as you like
with me, but leave my daughter out of
your schemes.’” (Eddard and Varys LVII)
“[Laws] are imposed by fear of being
penalized.” (Cicero 126)
The [. . .] quote showcases how
a few words can enact fear that
brings out obedience. Ned is
scared of what Varys will do to
his daughter if he were to
denounce Joffrey as king, so
Varys enforces authority (the
law) in order to make him
confess his crimes.
11. “‘You wear your honor like a suit of
armor, Stark. You think it keeps you
safe, but all it does is weigh you down
and make it hard for you to move [...]
You know what you want to ask me to
do. You know it has to be done … but
it's not honorable, so the words stick
in your throat’” (513-514).
“[L]et us suppose that their country is
so misguided that it believes that the
good man is evil [...] the good man is
attacked, seized, imprisoned, blinded,
convicted, chained, branded [...] so
that everyone feels, quite rightly, that
he is the most wretched man alive”
(para. 20).
Ned’s mistake of prioritizing justice results in
his execution--resounding Philus’s
hypothetical thought experiment in “The
Defense of Justice”:
As Ned attempts to impose his sense of
justice within the Red Keep and the Realm as
a whole, he is criticized by Littlefinger:
The royal court’s conviction of Ned Stark as a treasonous traitor demonstrates Ned’s failure to carry
out his justice. This is because, in Philus’s terms, Ned’s justice was forcibly impressed on those who
only thirst for wealth and power. Specifically, Ned’s sense of justice would have hindered Queen
Cersei’s interests in expanding Lannister power. Ultimately, Ned’s armor of justice then did not protect
him in the end, and instead led to his demise.
12. "Then let us go on to
suppose that [...] the good
man is attacked, seized,
imprisoned, blinded,
convicted, chained, branded,
expelled and beggared, so
that everyone feels, quite
rightly, that he is the most
wretched man alive.
Whereas the bad man [...] is
praised, courted, and loved
by one and all. Every kind of
public office and military
command is showered upon
him, as well as riches and
wealth from every quarter"
(Cicero 128).
Cicero's sentiment is mirrored by George R.R. Martin in
his depiction of Eddard and the Lannisters. Eddard is a
man of honor: he believes in doing the righteous thing
even though it may not benefit him politically or
otherwise. He refused to kill the Targaryen children
even though it would have won him a war (Martin 112)
and tells Cersei to flee after he plans on revealing
Joffrey's bastard status (487-488). On the other hand,
the Lannisters are shown to value cunning and power
over morality. Cersei criticizes Eddard’s obsession with
honor (487) and Joffrey executes him in cold blood
(726). In this situation, Cicero seems to be correct in
assuming that people would choose to be a ruffian over
a good man; the ruffian reaps every reward (money,
power, respect) while the good man perishes with his
values.
13. "Will had been a hunter before he
joined the Night's Watch. Well, a
poacher in truth. Mallister
freeriders had caught him red-
handed in the Mallisters' own
woods, skinning one of the
Mallisters' own bucks, and it had
been a choice of putting on the
black or losing a hand." (3, Martin)
0 “So laws, then, can vary considerably,
and can be changed.” (125, Cicero)
I believe Philus’s views on justice
being different for different people
in different nations pertains to the
ideas of justice in the game of
thrones. [. . .] Due to the time in
which the events of the Game of
Thrones takes place, the set of
ideas and laws put in place to go
accordingly with their ideas of
justice may seem harsh to those in
modern societies.
14. 0 “Laws are not
imposed on us by
nature … they are
imposed by the
fear of being
penalized.”(Cicero
126).
When Viserys breaks into the feast, Daenerys tells him
to throw [away] the sword because if he does not,
Drogo will get angry. Ser Jorah also tells him to follow
Daenerys “before [Viserys gets them] all killed.” (46) In
addition, Jhiqui does not dare to translate because “the
khal would bind her and drag her behind his horse all
the way up the Mother of Mountains” (46). I think the
reason why Dany and Ser Jorah tell Viserys to follow,
and Jhiqui does not dare to tell Drogo is that they don’t
want to be killed (penalized).
Cicero: Shedding Blood in Vaes Dothrak
15.
16. Thoreau and Ned
How much do you
owe the
Lannisters???
Thoreau describes politicians in
Massachusetts, “Practically
speaking, the opponents to a reform
in Massachusetts are not a hundred
thousand politicians at the South but
a hundred thousand merchants and
farmers here, who are more
interested in commerce and
agriculture than they are in
humanity…”(141)
In the novel, Ned is surrounded by those who
wish to not please the realm, but would want
to please themselves and the king. With Ned
taking the mantle of becoming the new hand,
he is surprised by the amount of debt owed to
the Lannister’s. Ned’s pride, sense of justice,
and respect towards King Robert are now
diminished as he learns the reality of this
inexcusable expense.
17. “Unjust laws exist: shall we be
content to obey them, or shall we
endeavor to amend them and obey
them until we have succeeded, or
shall we transgress them at once?”
(144)
Ned Stark should fight against Prince
Joffrey and Queen Cersei immediately
when he firstly found out the truth that
Joffrey was not Robert’s son. However, he
neither told Robert the truth nor kidnapped
Joffrey and Cersei in the first place;
instead, he was waiting for Robert’s death
and hoping just people could support him
for his revolution. Ned missed best chance
to win the game and he gave Joffrey and
Cersei enough time to make full
preparation.
18. “government in which the
majority rule in all cases
cannot be based on
justice…” (138, Thoreau)
"Seven hells," Robert swore. "Cersei, look at
her. She's a child. What would you have me
do, whip her through the streets? Damn it,
children fight. It's over. No lasting harm
was done." (156, Martin)
In this situation in the Game of Thrones, Cersei
decides to treat a fight between Arya and
Joffrey has a serious crime due to the fact that
Joffrey, who is part of the royal family of
Lannisters has gotten hurt. Although they are
just children, her ideas of justice become
skewed when it has affected the ruling
family. Thoreau talks about how the majority
are the ones who make the laws according to
their personal benefit and not for the people.
Just like Cersei who is one in power, that
majority in power is able to skew the unjust
laws in order to benefit from it.
19. "..to rule is not because they are most
likely to be in the right, nor because
this seems fairest to the minority but
because they are physically the
strongest. But a government in which
the majority rule in all cases cannot be
based on justice, even as far as men
understand it"
In Game of Thrones, Ned is forced to kill Lady because of the attack on Joffrey
by a direwolf; however, Lady did not hurt Joffrey, and was not present at the
attack. The only reason Lady was killed was because of Cersei's desire to
cause pain to the Stark children, regardless of who's direwolf it was. Ned knew
that Lady was not part of the attack, but still gave in to Cersei's orders to have
her killed. While Cersei is not technically the "majority" in terms of numbers, she
still carries the majority of the authority. Thoreau argues that majority rule is
never based on justice, but because it is simply the majority carries the most
power. Ned gives into the majority power here by killing Lady, even though it
was not Lady who attacked Joffrey, and not fulfilling any justice.
Ned is ordered by Cersei to kill Lady
because Arya's direwolf, Nymeria, cannot be
found, and demands punishment for hurting
her son Joffrey. (Martin 148-149).
20. Thoreau and Ned
0 “I will not be part of murder,
Robert. Do as you will, but do not
ask me to fix my seal to it” (354).
0 Thoreau says that “the only
obligation which [people] have a
right to assume is to do at any time
what [they] think right” (138).
People must respect their morals and the only obligation people have is to listen
to their consciences and do what is right. Ned Stark applies this idea when the
King calls on a meeting with the council to decide what to do about Daenerys
Targaryen. Robert decides to have Daenerys killed, claiming that, pregnant, she is
a danger, but Ned rejects this decision. [. . .] Ned refuses to respect the King’s
decision, which can be assimilated to our modern law, because this decision goes
against his morals. He decides to do what is right by refusing to follow the order.
21. Petyr Baelish, in having split his loyalties, causes the Stark family to be separated,
Ned beheaded, and the Stark children without a father. Petyr might be imposing
his own feelings of rejection or separation onto others, and the result is his
inability to connect with anyone, caring for none other than himself.
Similarly, Thoreau writes that if men have
been cheated or betrayed, they “take
effectual steps at once to obtain the full
amount and see that [they] are never
cheated again. [ … ] It divides the
individual, separating the diabolical in
him from the divine” (Thoreau 144).
0 Petyr Baelish epitomizes cruelty the
betrayal as he lets former love for
Catelyn and his new love for himself
(self-preservation) divide his loyalty.
He tells Lord Stark that he is “slow to
learn” and “distrusting [Baelish is]
the wisest thing [he’s] done since
[he] climbed down off [his] horse”
(Martin 258). He feigns loyalty to
whoever so long as they can elevate
his power or keep him alive.
22. “In other words, when a sixth of the
population of the nation which has
undertaken to be the refuge of liberty are
slaves…I think that it is not too soon for
honest men to rebel and revolutionize.”
“‘I see the faces of slaves. I free you.
Take off your collars. Go if you wish,
no one shall harm you. If you stay, it
will be as brothers and sisters,
husbands and wives’” (Martin 729)
23.
24. Form new teams for this unit. Remember, 50% of
your team must be new to you!
THEN, DISCUSS THE DIVISION OF LABOR FOR PLATO
Questions for Critical Reading (453-54)
We will come back together to go over the homework
before we leave!
25. Homework
0Read A World of Ideas: Plato's
"Allegory of the Cave" (443-453)
0Post #25 Questions (TBD) for
Critical Reading: (pages 453-54)
or QHQ Plato
0Essay #3 Due Friday, week 8,
before noon
