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Sugya #2 A Review of Rava’s Chiddush by  Get אין אונס בגיטין
 
` Ones –  Circumstance beyond your control Gemara Contrasts Excuse of  ones by Get vs. Mezonos
Why would a person divorce his wife on condition? ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Why would a person divorce his wife on condition? ,[object Object]
Terms -  מוסגים ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Terms -  מוסגים ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
 
How is the gemara attempting to prove “ ein ones b’gittin” ,[object Object]
If the Mishna also felt  Ones  is a good excuse what should the Mishna have said? ,[object Object]
 
Proving  אין אונס בגיטין Attempted Proof #3 for Rava
Attempted Proof #3 for Rava
Look, I am coming!! Look!!! NO!!!!!
Proof for Rava ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Disproof #3 of Proof for Rava
There are two types of  אונסין ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Maybe I will tell you that there is  no proof  from  שמואל that  אונס   is not a good excuse ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Why would  שמואל   say that an  אונס דשכיח   is worse? ,[object Object],[object Object]
What does it mean that “he caused himself the loss”? ,[object Object],[object Object]
After the Gemara is unsuccessful in bringing a proof for Rava to say  אין אונס בגיטין … the gemara comes to a conclusion…
There iS nO proOF Rather it is Rava’s own  סברה   (logic)!!
 
 
Issue:  צנועות   - Extra Pious Women If I don’t come back in 12 months…let this be a  get..
Logic of the Rava ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
This concern is called  עגונה ,[object Object]
 
Logic of the Rava ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Case of  פרוצות
Concern is of children being  ממזרים ,[object Object],[object Object]
Tosafos Understanding ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Question on Rava’s Logic The Gemara continues…
 
According to the Torah, what is the Halacha regarding an  אונס ? Isn’t  ones  a good excus?
Throughout the Torah we find that  אונס   is an good excuse… ,[object Object]
Source for  אונס   in the Torah ,[object Object]
This leads us to the Gemara’s Question…
 
Question on Rava ,[object Object],=
How can Rava make a  גט   work if according to the TORAH it’s not a  גט !?
Can Rava go against the Torah to make a  גט   work (that shouldn’t) just to protect these women?
 
Answer ,[object Object],The man says,  " הרי את מקודשת לי  כדת  משה וישראל "
 
What does it mean  כדת משה וישראל ? ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
Can the Rabbis really cancel a marriage!!? In order to make this  גט  work?!! Yes, but it would seem to depend…
 
The Power of the Rabbis Uprooting the Kiddushin –  אפקעינהו
Why can the Rabbis undo a marriage that was done… ,[object Object]
 
מה תהא על ביאתו Explained by the Ritvah חכמים היאך לא יחושו על ביאתו ועושה מעות  מתנה מעיקרן Rabbis are willing to  undo even  the  קדושין   of  ביאה As it may not be  considered retroactively an  עבירה
 
Rabbis can  Make $  הפקר   And all  ביאות Are “on their Own”  עבירות But won’t want To make your ביאה   uprooted b/c an  עבירה  –  because  Then the Rabbis are Directly making you do An  עבירה Yes, they are willing to Make you do an direct  עבירה
RASHI  Argues on the statement  of  רבותי מפרשים Saying that we learn out from the buying of  מערת המכפילה   the use of money for kiddushin therefore  כסף קדושין   is clearly from the Torah
Rabbis can  Undo  כסף   since It’s  דרבנן Rabbis cannot undo  קדושי ביאה   since it is  from the Torah ?
Explanation for the  רבותי מפרשים ,[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object],[object Object]
The Conclusion of the Gemara ,[object Object],[object Object]

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Sugya 2 Ones Bigittin 2b (1) Without Audio Uncut

  • 1. Sugya #2 A Review of Rava’s Chiddush by Get אין אונס בגיטין
  • 2.  
  • 3. ` Ones – Circumstance beyond your control Gemara Contrasts Excuse of ones by Get vs. Mezonos
  • 4.
  • 5.
  • 6.
  • 7.
  • 8.  
  • 9.
  • 10.
  • 11.  
  • 12. Proving אין אונס בגיטין Attempted Proof #3 for Rava
  • 13. Attempted Proof #3 for Rava
  • 14. Look, I am coming!! Look!!! NO!!!!!
  • 15.
  • 16. Disproof #3 of Proof for Rava
  • 17.
  • 18.
  • 19.
  • 20.
  • 21. After the Gemara is unsuccessful in bringing a proof for Rava to say אין אונס בגיטין … the gemara comes to a conclusion…
  • 22. There iS nO proOF Rather it is Rava’s own סברה (logic)!!
  • 23.  
  • 24.  
  • 25. Issue: צנועות - Extra Pious Women If I don’t come back in 12 months…let this be a get..
  • 26.
  • 27.
  • 28.  
  • 29.
  • 30. Case of פרוצות
  • 31.
  • 32.
  • 33. Question on Rava’s Logic The Gemara continues…
  • 34.  
  • 35. According to the Torah, what is the Halacha regarding an אונס ? Isn’t ones a good excus?
  • 36.
  • 37.
  • 38. This leads us to the Gemara’s Question…
  • 39.  
  • 40.
  • 41. How can Rava make a גט work if according to the TORAH it’s not a גט !?
  • 42. Can Rava go against the Torah to make a גט work (that shouldn’t) just to protect these women?
  • 43.  
  • 44.
  • 45.  
  • 46.
  • 47. Can the Rabbis really cancel a marriage!!? In order to make this גט work?!! Yes, but it would seem to depend…
  • 48.  
  • 49. The Power of the Rabbis Uprooting the Kiddushin – אפקעינהו
  • 50.
  • 51.  
  • 52. מה תהא על ביאתו Explained by the Ritvah חכמים היאך לא יחושו על ביאתו ועושה מעות מתנה מעיקרן Rabbis are willing to undo even the קדושין of ביאה As it may not be considered retroactively an עבירה
  • 53.  
  • 54. Rabbis can Make $ הפקר And all ביאות Are “on their Own” עבירות But won’t want To make your ביאה uprooted b/c an עבירה – because Then the Rabbis are Directly making you do An עבירה Yes, they are willing to Make you do an direct עבירה
  • 55. RASHI Argues on the statement of רבותי מפרשים Saying that we learn out from the buying of מערת המכפילה the use of money for kiddushin therefore כסף קדושין is clearly from the Torah
  • 56. Rabbis can Undo כסף since It’s דרבנן Rabbis cannot undo קדושי ביאה since it is from the Torah ?
  • 57.
  • 58.