Entrepreneur's Radio Show Episode Features Grant Writing Expert

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EPISODE #15: MORGAN GIDDINGS
Intro: You‟re listening to Diamonds in Your Own Backyard, the business owner‟s guide to success,
inspiration, and community. Where each week you will hear fellow business owners share their
inspirational stories, strategies and moments of clarity that help them find success. And now here is
your host Travis Lane Jenkins and Sandra Champlain.
Morgan Giddings
Travis: Hey, this is Travis Lane Jenkins.
Sandra: And this is Sandra Champlain. And we‟d both like to welcome you to Diamonds in Your Own
Backyard.
Travis: Hi Sandra.
Sandra: Hello Travis.
Travis: How are you?
Sandra: I‟m in a silly mood, something distracts me.
Travis: Yeah, good.
Sandra: Yeah, it‟s dark and rainy where I am. And I‟ve had there‟s some things that happened today
that just don‟t make me feel the best about myself. And after these last few minutes I have realized the
power in the conversation, when you talk to someone, when you start sharing to who you are and what
you are up to as we were talking to our upcoming guest just a few minutes before, it really has the
power to transform an attitude so all of a sudden in this great mood the sun is shining where I am inside
my house, and just the power of the conversation.
Travis: Yeah, it‟s an incredible height and just charges you up. Now I also have a surprise for you.
Sandra: I like surprises.
Travis: Are you excited?
Sandra: I don‟t know, let‟s see what kind of surprise you are talking about.

Travis: Well I know, I do the editing for just enough for who I am most people don‟t know that. I‟ve
found music for the show I mean you were talking about that adding music to the intro on our show and
I know that will make you happy. Are you excited?
Sandra: Yeah, I am happy, I am excited.
Travis: Right. Oh listen, I have something else I want you to get excited about.
Sandra: What is that?
Travis: Our guest is a friend of mine. I met her at the event, Morgan Giddings. She is a Phd, a
professor who‟s written over $10 million worth of funded grant proposals in the areas spending from
Science to plastic recycling businesses, to a bike shop. Now she teaches the concept of grant writing to
people all over the globe. She is also the author of 4 Steps to Funding. So I am proud to present to you
our guest today Morgan Giddings. Hi Morgan!
Morgan: Hello.
Sandra: Hello Morgan.
Morgan: Yeah, thinking for the great introduction I appreciate it.
Travis: Thanks for coming on the show.
Morgan: Yeah, I am really glad to be here. I think your mission; your goal is fantastic of the idea of
Diamonds in your own backyard. I was recently reading the story by Cromwell, the concept of
Diamonds in your own backyard so I think it‟s a fantastic one.
Travis: Yeah it‟s a wonderful story isn‟t it? I think it‟s worth repeating just kind of abbreviate the story. It
comes from acres and acres of diamonds about this successful farmer that heard about the stories of
great riches of diamonds on the other side of the world basically. And he had this happy family, he had
this successful business and he just couldn‟t get over this fantasy of this incredible wealth and so
ultimately he ended up leaving his family behind, and selling his farm and going on a many year journey
and I know you know this but it is worth re-telling the story for our listeners. Unfortunately over the
several years of his journey he died, and ultimately they ended up finding acres and acres of diamonds
on his property that he sold. The number it‟s a real story, number two it‟s such a great metaphor for so
many times things happened in our lives. And I felt like I‟m pretty sure and I have had times which I am
confident that the absolute worst thing has just happened to me. And the as the year passes I find that
it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. And that‟s for me were the metaphor of
diamonds in your own backyard come from. I know you that have gone through some things like that
also and so there is just so many different things that we can talk about before we get in to your

diamonds. Can you tell us Morgan, who qualifies, sounds like anybody qualifies for a grant, what is a
grant and why would just a regular bike shop get a grant.
Morgan: Sure.
Travis: I asked too many questions sorry about that.
Morgan: No, that‟s fine. I think that a grant in general is a different organization has their mission, this
includes non profit organizations, you might for example the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. They
were formed by the Gates family in order to help with health mainly in several other countries. So they
created this foundation and it has a lot of money behind it. And so then their goal is to find, to select
people that can help move that mission forward. And the way that they select people to do that is by
giving people grants so occasionally they will send out an email or put something on the rest like that
says, „Hey we want people to help us solve this particular problem and so please select grant proposal
by such and such deadline on how you can think you can help us solve this problem. In terms of
opening a bike shop we responded to essentially it‟s a loan flash grant, in the town of Karobi we were
trying to get more small local businesses in place in the town. So it‟s their mission is to do that, and so
our job as grant writers, or as loan applicants it was very similar to grant applications we are to
commence them that yes. Our mission is in the alignment with their mission and we can help them
accomplish it. So that is ultimately what the grant is all about and if you think about cancer research or
any other kind of scientific research that go on in the US or across the world, most of that research is
funded by grants. There are grants that are given out by big federal agencies and by smaller
foundations. So scientists rely on me to keep their careers and their scientific research moving forward.
Travis: I‟d always thought of a grant that is something that comes from the government.
Morgan: Yeah, they do.
Travis: But that‟s just one of the many sources.
Morgan: It is one of the many sources; the government has its biggest source of grant, certainly if you
are a practicing scientist keep looking for grants or any other kind of person just looking for grants. The
government is certainly the biggest source but not the only source and often it‟s good to look at
alternative sources because they are out there and they have missions to accomplish and they want to
move that mission forward. And if you can align there on whatever you are doing up with whatever their
mission is, then it is great. I mean in some states for example there are grants for small women owned
businesses that is one of the many example. So if your state or local happens to have that and you
happen to be an entrepreneur then you can line up your mission with them and perhaps get a grant to
help move your business forward.

Sandra: Wow.
Travis: Do you have a feel for, sorry about that Sandra, do you have a feel for how big the grand
market is.
Morgan: Well, the grant market in general is huge. I mean as in science grant which is what I am most
I am familiar with, there are going the dollars per year in and out to scientist. Now not just anybody can
apply as well, most anybody can apply but if you are just anybody you are not likely to receive one of
those grants. You really do have to be somebody with credentials as a scientist to get one of those
scientific grants.
Travis: Right.
Morgan: But there are hundreds and millions of dollars of other clients that grant around for every from
alternative energy to well known businesses or minority owned businesses, and helping people in
various ways. And these grants can go to non-profits but can also go to businesses, if your business,
again in alignment with mission of the grant contingency.
Travis: Right. I know your background is in Science, is that what your specialty is within the grants is
finding grants for Science or is it really just all businesses.
Morgan: What it is really is one in finding a grant, so scientist, I don‟t have a bit background, scientist
are trained how to do science. I think they do extensive decade long training process to get them to the
point when they‟re going into like a faculty job as professor at a big university and practice science
because they all train but very, very little of that training focuses on communication, focuses on the
concept of marketing. What a grant proposal is all about ultimately is communication and marketing.
You got a project, you got an idea, and you want to convince your potential funder to give you the
money for that project or idea. It is very much like of marketing situation but these scientists are not
trained to do that for the most part. There is no systematic or rigorous training in it. It‟s just sort of hap
hazard and random so why do people end up in their careers as this fancy faculty member at a big
university. I mean they have plans of Harvard and Stanford and places like that and they end up there
and they say, „oh now what‟ and they start getting grant proposal using their random knowledge about
it. And they may start getting used of rejection stock and these are grant proposals. I mean it‟s going to
be months or two months to put together, they are very intensive, they are not easy so after you are
submit five or six of these things then you wait six months each time, and you get back a bunch of
rejection you start feeling horrible about yourself.
Travis: Right.

Morgan: And so what I essentially, the niche that I have been working in is to help those faculty
members with training on how to do it correctly, because I want their transformation, I would want those
people who started at a faculty job out of big name institution. One of the top five public universities in
the country and I was there and I struggled and I got a lot of rejections that I hoped, I felt horrible about
myself I felt like they were going to throw me out on my back because I couldn‟t get my grant. Then I
encountered a mentor who really changed everything for me. It‟s quite a story of transformation I‟ve
gone to several of those in my life, but this is a big one. That I went from completely being rejected with
my grants to a point where every grant I applied for I was getting which is very rare.
Sandra: Wow.
Morgan: Yes, so it was a big transformation for me and then later on I started sharing that information
with colleagues, and that‟s how I got into these particular business that I‟m in.
Travis: How did you convert that to businesses because a lot of it, I hear a common denominator is
science and people surrounding that field. How did you transition to helping businesses?
Morgan: I still mostly help actually faculty members. I mean my main client based right now is still
helping those scientists who are in academia and they pay me for training for working with them on
their proposals. So how did I do it for my personal businesses?
Travis: Yeah, right.
Morgan: Yeah, it was just basically taking the same lessons that I have learned and applying them, it‟s
about how compelling your author is or your project is, how well is what just what the funder wants and
communicating that clearly. Whether or not it‟s a scientific grant proposal or something for business it‟s
really the same pattern. It‟s very much like the concept of direct marketing. I had a really big “Uh huh.”I
was a co owner of a bike shop and the woman that I, who I talked the funding for we did these by
chops. But it turns out that I was a terrible marketer at that time, and so the bike shop really struggled,
then I finally said that this is about the business I‟m on that is struggling, and I‟m tired of struggling, I‟m
not smart enough to figure it out on my own. Let me go learn marketing from some people I know I am
talking about so I admit my fault and that concept of marketing. I started to learn from people who know
what they are talking about, and lo and behold my eyes opened up. It‟s like wow this is same thing that
I have been doing in my successful grant proposals all along. It‟s like okay be or not separate activity
they are one same activity.
Travis: Interesting.
Sandra: Morgan, I have a question. Let‟s just act like a little, you went from failure, failure, failure to
success, success, success. I‟m just thinking I don‟t want to miss it because a lot of us just stop trying,

there was something in you that kept you going, and I know all of our businesses are different but how
did you push through to start writing successful grant.
Morgan: Yeah, that‟s a great question and so let me answer that a couple of ways hopefully that it can‟t
take so much time. One thing is to understand is when you are a scientist in a big university. You are in
a situation that‟s very much like wanting a business. You have to consider your cash flow, you have
grants coming in, and you have employees and other people to support and supplies to buy and cash
going out. And the university doesn‟t just give you the sort of unloaded full of money to do those things,
you have to be constantly out there promoting your work and getting the grants to keep it going or else
your enterprise, your business in the university it‟s from. So that‟s sad I mean I was in that situation
looking at it and saying, “You know what this is really horrible and I am very frustrated but they‟ve given
me few more years to turn it around and I‟m going to do everything I can to turn it around because at
that time I felt like that was the path I needed to take in life.” I‟ve been committed myself to this factory
job, I had employees in my lab I think that‟s part of work to be done, I had mouth to feed and so they
were dependent on me. It was like I needed to do something, I had to do something. I even though I felt
not very well and very depressed about it on many occasions. I was like there‟s got to be an answer
here because there‟s almost always been, other people been successful at it. And I felt to myself I may
not be the greatest person here but I am not, I could definitely do some of these, so let me learn.
Sandra: Wow, what a valuable message that‟s going further than you know yourself to go and that‟s
where the success lies, thank you for sharing this.
Morgan: Sure and then always been not always the same thing with the bike shop, that was another
transformative experience for me in making that same mission about my marketing, again it‟s kind of a
serial entrepreneur and always through gone back and forth between the science and the
entrepreneurialism. I‟ve been involve with multiple businesses, I‟ve become a bug. I‟ve been that way
but the thing about my past business effort is that I thought of myself as being too smart I was like I am
a smart scientist, I could figure out this business marketing staff and now I mean I don‟t have time to
learn the lesson that other people have already learned and then can learn from.
Sandra: Exactly.
Travis: Morgan you are talking about one thing about what kept you driving is that you sound
something that was bigger than you. And that helps you dig down deep when you are going through
things that sometimes you want to give up but the cause is much, much bigger than you.
Morgan: Yeah.

Travis: I think that‟s one of the things that help you dig down. You‟ve had several times in your life
where you reached the forking road and just made a conscious decision to go the direction that your
heart told you the genie to go. Can you tell a little bit about that?
Morgan: Yeah, I think I know what you are getting at. And so I went through a major life change and
that was actually you hit on the perfect rhythm that I went through that change when I did. Basically I
was born in a male body with a female mind. It just that body it wasn‟t right, it was always been this
core with my heart and who I felt I really was. I can‟t explain why that this would happen, I mean there
is some scientific evidence about that norms transforming in different way whatever, whatever you call
it, it is not just in alignment and I always try to do that and I would try to suppress and then say no, this
is ridiculous. You know I am born in a male‟s body what‟s going on. But finally, I fought, and I struggled,
and went back and forth about what to do anything, what to do about it and fears of rejection by
everybody I know, and what I finally got me to the point that I said you know what I have to do
something about this, I am in a marriage and my spouse she was pregnant with our first daughter and
that prompted me. I read a story of somebody else who have gone to a similar kind of struggle and had
eventually in her 50‟s gone through the change, the physical changes to match what is going on in
heart and in the mind. And by that time her kids were grown they were in college and her kids
prevented that she had fought and waited all those years and then suddenly come out and said Mom,
you know what by the way I am not really in the alignment here, Dad is now going to be your second
mom and they rejected her. I thought I read the story right then my dialogues coming and I read the
story and I‟m like “Oh my God” Do I want to be that person, like if I keep on struggling with this
someday I have to face this. This is not going to go away. So do I want to wait and not be the true
person that I am for my daughter or am I just going to deal with this and get through this nightmare that
this transition is going to be and be who I am for my daughter so I made that choice. It was the hardest
choice I ever made.
Sandra: Wow.
Morgan: To go forward and make the change.
Travis: That‟s surely brave of you, I know that there‟s a lot of people that have very strong feelings on
that on all sides of that, and my feelings happens to be that you need to do what is in your heart and all
of us need to do what aligns with what our insights are, what we need to do. I‟m not here to judge and
the great people that I have known in life or normally people that don‟t judge either. It‟s just something
that you need to do to align yourself, and then to me, I don‟t know you in a deep level we met on an
event and I knew that you were a super intelligent person and that‟s one of the things that made me
want to talk to you and have you come on to the show because of the value that you can bring to other
business owners in a multiple of ways. But it sounds to me like once you found this alignment in

yourself it started to unfolding other parts of you that made you decide to make other shifts. Because
you know what that shift was, how many years ago that you just talked about 5, 7, 8 years ago.
Morgan: Yeah, it was about 6 years, 7 years this point at.
Travis: Okay. Now you are transitioning from a very successful career as a professor into being an
entrepreneur again. You know life is unfolding a new direction and so did you find the courage to do
that through this prior decision?
Morgan: At some extinct yeah, it is interesting. I mean I think having gone through that I realized hey I
survived that not only survive it but I didn‟t move my marriage, I didn‟t stop, I didn‟t alienate all the
colleague I thought I would alienate, I thought that it‟s a huge kind of trouble with it but no people were
fine with it. Getting successfully through that and looking back and saying “Hey, that was just for the
better the more alignment.” Now I can function without the mental voice that I used to have that really
helps me. But surprisingly that even making this current transition away from the academic job has
been harder than I thought it would be. I have already gone to that previous thing I‟ve got this so this
would be easy. It‟s not easy. In this transition life is difficult to cling from one thing to something
different. But at the same time it thus still the confidence that it also got me more in touch of which what
I really liked to do what I enjoyed doing and was gifted at doing. I was a good scientist but not an
incredible scientist not in this area that I was in. I was really good at communicating and connecting
with people and understanding what‟s going on with people. And that‟s what carries my life forward and
carries my grant forward and so now I am shifting into doing even more that in my business.
Travis: In that normally what‟s missing with scientist social skills anyways.
Morgan: Yeah, that‟s a big one. A lot of them are missing and I think a lot of them feel that way
because maybe through school they‟re kind of outcast, they‟re kind of missing they never really develop
those skills as fully as a lot of people do.
Travis: That‟s interesting.
Morgan: So the normal shift, really it‟s kind of I come to this multiple transmission but I think we all put
together because like with a grant transformation from really struggling to really being successful at it.
That was right around the same time I went through that gender transition. And I think it‟s not actually
handled but I got rid of all the miserable ways and baggage and turned focusing on what truly is
important.
Sandra: It happens so often more, I just want to share thank you for sharing your story with us. I have a
new book that‟s come out this past week. I worked with a lot of people that are facing the end of their
life, and life and death. One of the biggest things that people do is at the end is their regret. And to deal

with who you are or what you are up to, whether it‟s a gender change or job change or whatever. As
human being we are given one shot, and what I hear from you is this is level of freedom that comes by
declaring who you are and following that. I don‟t personally believe that life is meant to be easy; I
believe it is meant to go after your dreams, sail, try again. That‟s where the gold comes in, like you said
that‟s where the confidence is built. So I just really want to acknowledge you for what you are up to and
what you are doing and the difference you are making. And it‟s really a great lesson for all of us to you
know what yeah, I don‟t want people to disagree with who I am and what I am up to, you have to be
true to yourself and that‟s a beautiful lesson to all of us to think about.
Morgan: It is. And I think it‟s also interesting that, I have had the opportunity in the last two years to
learn from some of the direct marketers on the planet and learn about what makes a compelling
marketing versus what is not. One of the things that comes out for me is that as an individual
entrepreneur putting yourself out there be at the center and be who you are, is the most powerful
marketing that you can do. Yes you might turn some people of in doing that, but that‟s okay because
the people who are attracted to who you are going to be much more strongly attracted to who you are
and your business than something more the otherwise. And for me that was really eye opening
understand that marketing is not about sort of water everything down and trying to be this mediocre
please everybody kind of person.
Sandra: Right.
Travis: Right.
Morgan: It was about connecting with that core set of people who connect with you and the story. It‟s
powerful.
Travis: Yeah. That‟s part of building a tribe. You are either an insider or an outsider; everybody can‟t
be an insider if there is no group.
Morgan: Exactly.
Travis: Right?
Morgan: Yeah, it becomes some big, big water down sort of melting pot.
Travis: Yeah nobody has the courage to stand up and speak with clarity on a specific topic because
they want to try and make sure that everyone is pleased and that‟s a problem with most people‟s sales
funnel right now. People that have a sales funnel up is they‟re trying to talk to the masses or to the
broad of the group and they‟re not really resonating with the core people that would love them, buy all
of their products, right?

Morgan: Yeah, I mean can I share with you a brief marketing lesson based on something that
happened today?
Sandra: Yes. We would love that.
Morgan: Sure, so I have somebody who does the video work for me and he was doing some research
to really learn how to do his job better he said, he came to me today and said, “Do you have a customer
avatar for this?” and I‟m like you know I do. So I work it out immediately two different areas that I‟m
working on right now, one is my scientist area, and they rattled off exactly what is that person that I‟m
working with that I‟m targeting with my marketing. If I want to help with my marketing and my services,
what are the dreams, concerns, and fears and all of that it‟s I mean name of exactly what are key set of
hot buttons intertwined with the females because more of my clients tend to be females so that avatar
is a very kinship kind of person. Now that doesn‟t mean I don‟t full in female customers, I have some
male customers certainly too and what not that I really focus my marketing on that very deep person
and then I was able to easily shift and say well this other project I‟m working on with completely
different profile. And here‟s where that person is at in life, here‟s what‟s happening to her, here‟s what‟s
going in her mind and why she is struggling that. And to having that in your mind and put together in
your marketing, your funnel, it‟s just so powerful. It helps you say exactly what messages do I need to
convey about how; what I am doing is going to connect with this person or help this person.
Travis: Right. Have you done the diagram exercise where you ride in one section you draw face in the
middle with kind like of a pie almost like a pie chart, what they see, what they say, what they feel, what
they like, all of those things?
Morgan: I haven‟t done that particular exercise. I‟m not a very good artist despite that my mother is an
artist but it sounds like a good exercise.
Travis: Yes, it‟s a great exercise. A lot of people think you created, the people that do create avatars
they think they create it and you‟re done with it and you really don‟t. You are constantly evolving it as
you get more and more day that you want their age, their sex, their income, their income, their school,
their likes and dislikes, everything. And then it‟s also good to create an avatar of who they are not. You
could basically come up with four avatars there. And it‟s really nice because your organizations, you
and your staff can continually refine that get clarity as the writing and creating products for this thing, so
I agree with you 100%.
Sandra: I want to just jump in quick because about a year ago, people would talk about avatar, and I
nodded my head like I knew what they are talking about, just in the in taste I am not alone in that
avatar. How can you describe an avatar Morgan?

Morgan: I would describe an Avatar as the sort of the ideal customer, what is that ideal customer, what
are their preferences, what would they like, why would they choose my business over some other
business.
Sandra: Thank you for that.
Morgan: Yeah. Pretty simple definition I could add more Eiffel tower, you think about it but that‟s what it
is.
Sandra: That was just a fancy name and then honestly I didn‟t know what it meant I thought it sounds
cool the movie by that but then it makes perfect sense. When you talk to one person whether if you are
reading a book and it sounds like they are talking to you or if you‟re given a presentation and you‟re
talking to one person at a time or you have your avatar. I mean really the value of that person honing in
and say she‟s waiting just to me, a lot of value for that.
Travis: Right.
Morgan: It‟s tremendous in everything that you do, I think that was one of my big mistakes in marketing
early on in multiple business is not having that avatar and again trying to sell to everybody. The reason
again, going through what I have you please everybody but on the other hand, the surprising thing to
me going through the transition that I did was that some people actually felt more affinity they‟re like
wow that‟s a powerful story you went through all that and so there were people who were more friendly,
who wanted to know me more because of that. And that‟s something that I have never realized that at
that time that would happen and that‟s exactly the same thing in marketing people can really, the
marketing is just about who you trust, who you wanted, who you wanted to do business with and that‟s
what it is.
Travis: Right. And I would say to answer that definition of avatar. I hear avatar as the centre of the
bull‟s eye. So we want to speak with the sweet spot, the centre of the bull‟s eye is that ideal person that
cares about what you are saying. And then like you said you do have some clients that come to you
that are outside of that avatar. And that‟s just further out of the bull‟s eye that‟s just the benefit of
creating a powerful message with either a great product or service, right?
Morgan: Yeah. That‟s exactly is.
Sandra: If I can share with you guys, Morgan you were saying just being real with people and telling
your story actually cause more than affinity. I‟ve heard some motivational speakers, authors and
they‟ve always had it handled, life has always been good, have made millions of dollars, and I was like
not even interested show me the guy or the gal that tells me how really is I thought a man on stage and
his zipper was down for a long time in a presentation and everybody was trying to get to him to tell him

and finally when someone slip him a note and said that I mean he just played it off just so cool like we
just saw his humanity and in that moment that‟s when we trust people, tell the good, tell the bad, tell
your failures, tell your strength and weaknesses. So thanks for bringing that up.
Morgan: Yeah, not that brings up like one of the things that I‟m working on in the future, and I think it‟s
really important it‟s about education and teaching. So I‟ve worked with many stuff I ended up doing sort
of coaching, for faculty members they goes beyond brands that helps them with their teaching, helps
them with their situation in other ways and I mean I intend to that they‟re just after me for it, okay well
I‟ll help you do that. One of the things that many faculty members struggle with is what a good teacher
is. And one of the things that it‟s such a myth number in any educational setting is that a good teacher
has to be this perfect, know it all, acts sure, specific part of the classroom whether virtual or face to
face, be this perfect person. And one of the things I have to do with my faculty quite often that I helped
is say no, show your personality, you are more like a tour guide, your personal tour guide through this
whatever you are teaching to your students. And if you need to make the connection with those add
that personal individual‟s human tour guide with not a perfect any valuable fast viewing computer,
students don‟t relay to that. And that‟s one of the things that I am very passionate about not only in the
educational setting, in a university but there‟s so many people with many businesses online that are
about teaching classes and creating info products and things like that. But so many people don‟t
understand what it takes to be truly a good teacher, they see that example, they see that teacher‟s that
they have they don‟t know anything the difference, so they end up like that. And I‟m really sort of it
breaks my heart, that it could be so much better in many cases. So that‟s kind of if you ask me one of
the directions I‟m going in the future helping people be better teachers by being more human and
connecting at that level.
Travis: Right. That may be due to the era that would come from also I don‟t know your age Morgan
we‟re both 46.
Morgan: I oppose to that.
Travis: You oppose to that okay we will make you reveal. I know that we are from the same era, it‟s an
era to where you keep a step up or lift or tap it out which some of it is good. But it also is inauthentic
you are not supposed to show the pain, you are not supposed to show the mistakes. And that‟s the
underpinnings of what both Sandra and myself has talked about we don‟t like it, if you can‟t get real with
this, shares the whole thing, words and all of the bad stuff in a succinct way it‟s easier for us to
understand where you are coming from and knowing that you are a legitimate sincere person. You
agree Sandra.
Sandra: Oh definitely, Travis has a lot of words. You go to travisandsandra.com and just scroll down on
his picture you‟ll see him all.

Morgan: Okay, well I‟ll always go there until we are done here before I go to that you might hear some
kind of four, five hours just kidding.
Travis: Oh Sandra, you are so sweet.
Sandra: Sorry Travis, you tend to be open you said.
Travis: Right.
Morgan: I think there is something powerful here and that I agree with that notion you just have to just
tap or lift so here‟s the thing that happens, I look out in my wall as professor I saw this graduates who‟s
coming in, either graduate student learning about the advanced cutting edge science at some of the
world‟s best university. And they were very good at sort of the rational analysis the facts viewing mode
but what they were not good at, what most of them struggle with is a. Being independent, b. Asking the
right questions, c. being creative like they had no training in those three critical areas. Some of them
really never got to that point and some good but it was very difficult for them. And the reason I think of
that is it‟s because our whole educational system has been so good on, here are more facts, here‟s
more data, memorize it all. And I still think that‟s the way people have ever learn optimally people learn
if they are interested, and so I think the better mile for education is A. Get somebody interested in
learning that topic, B. Just facilitate them learning it.
Sandra: Beautiful.
Travis: Right. Great point!
Morgan: It‟s a different model I call it a „pull model‟ rather than a push model I think traditional
education where you are sitting in your classroom and your captive to the grade that they are going to
give you at the end of the semester, quarter or whatever it is. Your captive so they can push information
in to you sort of force in to you with that leverage of the grade that they are going to give you. I think
that the reason that it doesn‟t work because information 20, 30 years ago which was a little bit more
scarce than it is now. Now we‟ve got internet there‟s too much information or too many destruction and
so I think the push mode even in the classroom setting, the grades there it just doesn‟t work, you get
destructed by Facebook, you get destructed whatever is going on in your life. So we have to shift to a
pull model of education refocusing the students in to be interested on the topic and learning about the
topic, and your partly doing that pull through your own story, through your humanity, you can‟t do it to
somebody who just stood there and get stuck.
Travis: Well that‟s how the teachers that reached me as a young man. A few of them that did reach me
where by engage in me. What you are talking about is happening, it‟s a paradigm shift across the

board. It‟s shifting in teaching, it‟s shifting in marketing, it‟s shifting really in everything isn‟t it from a
push to a pull.
Morgan: Yes, it is. I think it‟s really important to understand that in your marketing in particular because
I believe that at it‟s core marketing is just educating your customer about the value of what you have to
offer to them. So you know what‟s the word educating in there, I really think it‟s in the educational
situation but few did it‟s very much up the pull sort of marketing or sort of education rather than the
push. I think that in the past that push kind of marketing works but it‟s working less than that.
Travis: Right, right. Well like Steve Jobs says, your customer doesn‟t know what they want until you tell
them.
Morgan: Exactly, exactly. You got to be really good educator so you tell them clearly so they have they
aha moment in your mind, like oh I need that, I need to go out run out and buy the new iPhone 5 for
example, well Steve wasn‟t around for that but Apple continuous on and thus the same types of really
good marketing.
Travis: Right, right. What are the lessons that you, you are transitioning from this successful career to
successful business and say you‟ve learn some things you already have a successful business up and
running before you made this transition? What did you learn between your failed businesses and now?
Morgan: There are a couple of things really again was this concept of marketing from some of my
perspective of educating. I think that Dad spent time for me learning how to do that better to connect
what I am doing with the grants, what I do with my marketing so that‟s big one. Second big one is
learning how to manage myself, manage my energy rather than focusing on just time management
which I think is a misnomer to really shifting to energy management. Do I have energy right now, if I
don‟t have energy right now, how can I get more energy, how can I feel better first before I dive in to a
new project.
Travis: How do you shift that?
Sandra: Yeah, I was going to ask the same question.
Morgan: Yeah I think the number one thing, and I am not perfect to this I‟m getting better and better is
realizing to listen how I am feeling at any particular moment and understand that I am not feeling about
something, there‟s probably reason and that I need to go focus on feeling better and feeling more
energy and feeling sort of energy pack so that I could dive to what it is I am doing. Because if you do a
marketing piece, you do a video, you do whatever it is that you are doing in your business, if you do
that without your full self present, if you are just like really tired and really stressed out, it‟s not going to
be merely, merely as good, merely as effective.

Travis: So merely it is put active right?
Morgan: Yeah, so that thing may be done with clear clarity of mind sort of presence and focus, that
doesn‟t happen if you haven‟t been taking some pure energy I mean that‟s a combination, diet, taking
time, doing better and meditating and again just taking the time off like I „m having a bad day.
Sometimes I will just go home, take a nap, go for a walk or go for a bike ride. In the past I would never
allow myself that I would say I have so much to do, I don‟t have time to do this thing, I don‟t have time
to take some time off, let me just sit here in front of my computer, and then I sit there in front of my
computer and ten minutes later some email would come in and because I am such in a poor state of
mind I get off on this mental half of destruction, find myself surfing websites two or three hours later and
I didn‟t get done anything anyway.
Sandra: I can relate to that, sure.
Travis: Yeah. I like to work an hour and a half to anywhere between an hour to two hour increments. It
varies on the topic; if it‟s super interesting I can go two hours, if it‟s mildly interesting an hour and 15
minutes. I need to get up around and change my perspective for 10, 15, 20 minutes and then I can get
back to it. That‟s how I keep my energy up, does the same apply to you guys?
Morgan: Yes definitely.
Sandra: I agree but sometimes people wait for inspiration before they start something and that‟s a
tricky place too because I don‟t know if you ever feel 100% ready to go and I know for me sometimes
just getting involved in something I‟ve been procrastinating kind of opens the door, kinds of open the
creativity. Travis is a great friend of mine, and sometimes having a call with someone that really cares
about you and who knows who you are and what you are capable of can get you on that track as well.
Morgan: I agree. I mean I am not like that before just sitting around for days or weeks just to wait for
the inspiration to come and I think there is finding balance there in my own experience. But sometimes
you do have to get into some kind of action before you‟re ready; I also think that if it‟s action, just for the
sake of action that can be not productive what I am trying to say.
Sandra: Yeah, it‟s sort of a balance.
Morgan: Yeah, and so explaining that balance and learning where you develop the point is, I think at
the bottom line of it for me it‟s learning more about how we easily function as an individual and learning
how to optimize not by merely listening to ourselves, observing ourselves, and figuring it out what we‟re
doing. And not just going with the pop culture or whatever is out there, we‟ve been talking about the
environment perfect example there were a recent discussion about how scientist for some of the most
over worked people and now there are some news on this, but they‟re extremely overworked they‟re

working all the time, I mean they‟ve been nice I mean they‟re spending up on accounting. They do that
because it‟s just the culture that has been mould that way, that‟s the only way to get path in science is
to work hard. And one of the key transform I think I know for a scientist that I worked with is....down and
to help them see that sometimes they need to be taking a break working less hard and I mean a lot of
this scientist that I worked with they‟re procrastinate, they‟re grant writing until the last minute they‟re
into real trouble getting going. And I have been able to even though they‟re working all the time they
just can‟t do these things that‟s the most important thing that they could possibly be doing. So I work
getting down feeling better about it first, and taking a sufficient break and then coming to a really clear
mind, and setting aside the time to do that and only that with a clear mind with energized and ready to
go that and it makes the world a difference when they do that.
Travis: Right.
Sandra: Yeah, it was a right mindset you can move mountains. Morgan we are at the end of our
interview in the next 8 minutes or so I don‟t want to miss anything. We have listening in some wonderful
business owners and entrepreneurs and I want to make sure that we don‟t miss anything. Is there
anything you want to give to our incredible audience if there‟s anything else that‟s in your heart that you
want to share that you can make a difference or anything you ought you want to know us about
yourself, the floor is yours.
Morgan: Okay thank you, I mean the only other thing that I want to talk about briefly because it‟s
actually the most important thing in my mind in all human activity is creativity. So I had a background,
my original training in my science career was in computer science. I got into computer science because
I was interested in artificial intelligence, you know those kinds of robots, and all the sci-fi movies, I
mean I was interested in figuring out what is intelligence, how can we implement this in the computer.
Here‟s the conclusion out there paying attention to that field for the last 20 years pretty instantly is that
one thing that sets us apart from computers as humans is that we have our creativity. And more and
more were saying traditional jobs are made out their way or outsourced. And that‟s robots, computers
are not creative. I have to like to learn about how someday people might be creative but I don‟t think
people are very close yet and I am not sure that‟s a good thing I don‟t know maybe yes maybe doesn‟t.
But I think our human creativity is our blessing. I recently did it just interesting calculation about the
band Pink Floyd who I happened to be a fan of. When they made their album they‟re breakthrough
album Dark Science in 1973 they spent about 16 to 20 hours recording that album. That album has
generated about 50 million sales which is over half of the billion dollars worth of record sales. So if you
calculate their actual effort recording that album and just why that into the amount of money that‟s been
generated that the sales they got is 1/8 or something. They‟re earning millions of dollars per hour for
having recorded that one album. Even if you added half of the time and everything they‟re still earning
hundreds of thousands of dollars per hour. The works that they do of that album, be outsourced, be

automated, there‟s no way so that‟s why I am such a fan of creativity. Creativity is what makes us
unique as humans, it‟s what makes our businesses unique, it‟s what makes our product unique. And
the people that I have observed for a lot of them who are really successful as marketers or business
people, entrepreneurs are the ones who are creative. They take the lessons that they learned from
mentors and they simulate those and then they use their creativity to build upon those, they don‟t just
follow formula exactly as pretended. They build upon them and they create. And so I am a big fan of it
I‟m writing a book about it and other things right now.
Sandra: And what‟s the name of your new book.
Morgan: The new book is „If you are not creating, you‟re dying‟. And I did have it on a trial.
Sandra: Oh, I love it.
Morgan: Oh thank you. Yeah, it really is. I think if we are not involve in creating, creating better health,
creating more wealth, creating better relationships, then we are on our way out. And it‟s true for
businesses, it‟s true for people and so I really do believe in the title, I think it‟s at the core essence of
who are as humans. Since this process of being involved is creativity and why should be challenged
and put me in it and creatively overcoming them. So I am really excited about it and I‟m going to be
releasing soon kind of a couple of chapters they have a time. So anybody into getting some of that pre
release content is it okay with you if I say my website?
Travis: Yeah, sure. Please do.
Morgan: Okay, so yeah. You can to I just have a video that sounds hey, if you want my preview to
look at free report, it‟s at www.creative-wealth.com. I don‟t really have much there yet. I do have more
little component that I took from them early draft in the book that you can get right away and then I‟ll be
selling more of that in the future because I really do that as entrepreneurs you‟ve got to be creative,
you‟ve got to engage, and it is such sets us apart and to make our business fantastic.
Sandra: Wow, Morgan thank you so much for your time your wealth of information and gosh, I am
blessed, very inspired.
Morgan: Thank you.
Travis: Yeah, excellent job. That was a brilliant way of explaining creativity, at a very eloquent way of
explaining it. And I think a lot of people can‟t get their hands around that. The way you explained it
makes it much easier to get your hands on it or around it and kind of understand what‟s going on. We
could have a very interesting conversation on exponential growth and transcendental man and all that
other stuff I‟m sure you know quite a bit about the gentlemen, is that record as well?

Morgan: Yes.
Travis: Yeah but that will take an entire another show to cover.
Morgan: Right?
Travis: Yeah, right. Do you have any other links that we can put upon on a site for people to find you or
that‟s the best one for them to go to?
Morgan: I think for entrepreneurs that might be the best one, there‟s this other area of helping
entrepreneurs education, educating their customers about the value of what they do, and doing the pull
kind of educating especially in the areas of info marketing. I‟m really just getting going with that, I‟ll be
putting together a Facebook page on that soon, so my name on Facebook and just look for that and
connect with me there it‟s just that I am really motivated to help people on that subject as well I think it‟s
my strength and my adrenaline in educating helping others through education and it‟s important.
Travis: Excellent, excellent. Well listen one of the things that I want to cover is of course I‟ve been
working on it‟s easy to shift to have a conversation to you all, you guys and everything, and I want to do
a better job, both Sandra and I want to do a better job of speaking directly to you our listener, we know
there are listeners but we want to talk to you directly and I want to tell you how important it is for you to
become a member of our tribe where you will become part of the insiders where you will receive a
powerful short videos that I‟ve created. I feel like its vital information for you building your business
that‟s the things that I‟ve discovered as I built my business over the years to 70 million dollars. We‟re
committed, everybody that comes on the show, and Sandra and I are committed to helping you
because we understand the importance of business owners, as the value that you bring to our
community, to our tax based, to jobs, to basically everything. And also when you become a part of our
tribe, you‟ll also get a consumer guide that goes really deep on the topic of marketing your business
and several other things that no one is willing to talk about these days because it‟s really not in their
best interest. It‟s a little controversial but it‟s straight forward. I don‟t have anything to sell they‟re just
information that you need to know. It‟s important that you download that and one of the other things that
Sandra and I agreed, that we really wanted to do, after thanking our guest for showing up, and thank
you Morgan for coming on our show today.
Morgan: Thank you.
End of Interview

Travis: Yeah. And I want to read another quote to you, „Most great people have attained their greatest
success just one step beyond their greatest failure‟. And that‟s a quote by Napoleon Hill, you know guys
that I am a fan of Napoleon Hill. And every day I want to close the show out with a quote of inspiration
to let you know that you are not alone, that you matter, your business matters. So come be part of our
community. Sandra?
Sandra: Just a thank you Morgan and a thank you to you our listeners, it may sound we are not talking
to you, but we are talking to you. We are here for you, we are on your side, we are here for your
success. Travis and I are accessible as our guest and just visit us at travisandsandra.com and be in
communication with us. We really do stand for your success and thank you for taking your time to be
with us here today listening to the show.
Travis: I am going to look for you on the next show so you better be there. Take care.
Sandra: All right, thank you.
Travis: All right. Bye.

How We Can Help You
We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so
called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do.
That‟s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer
for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost.
Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive
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We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses,
Opportunities and Threats within your business.
This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons
are.
As the 'Business Owner' it‟s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‟re in the
middle of a daily management.
And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial.
This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‟t matter if you are a one-man army, or
an army of 150, the problem is still the same.
Travis Lane Jenkins
Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist
Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show
“Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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