Sandeep A. Varma is the writer-director of the movie, Manjunath. In this case view he throws light on the triggers that led him to make a movie on Manjunath. He explains that making the movie Manjunath was an answer to the call of his conscience

1. Sandeep A. Varma,Managing Director,
ICOMO Advertising India Pvt. Ltd.
Writer,Director of the movie ‘Manjunath’
ET CASES
October 2014
Interviewed
by
Dr. Nagendra V. Chowdary
Interview
with
Sandeep A. Varma
Ref. OB-1-0033B/4
CASE VIEW ON
IIM LUCKNOW’S MANJUNATH SHANMUGAM:
PURPOSE-DRIVEN PERSONALITY AND THE VALUE OF VALUES

2. 2
ET CASES
Interview with Sandeep A. Varma IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality...
1. What interested you in Manjunath and why did you choose this episode for celluloid
presentation when there were similar and more poignant episodes?
It’s not that I got interested in Manjunath or that I strategically thought that I should make
a film on a real hero and I chose Manjunath over others. There was no such choice which
was made. I was going through a phase of my life where I was feeling some things very
strongly about what was happening around me. And then coincidently I was contacted by
the Manjunath Shanmugam Trust, not for a feature film but for an advertising work. It was
already burning inside me but without any kind of focus. So when this material came to
me, I just felt that it made me realize what I had been feeling all this time. It gave a little
bit of focus within me. When I read about and researched the travails that Manjunath
went through for doing the right thing, I realized why things were going so wrong around
me and that I had been so impotent and without any courage to do anything about those
things. I realized the potency of Manjunath, the power of his personality.
However, I do believe that there are other stories which are also very inspirational and
extremely heroic and possibly a lot of them had bigger odds than Manju had. Possibly
some of them had bigger issues than what Manju was trying to bring out. For example,
Satyendra Dubey himself was a spectacular story. Considering the guy unlike Manju was a
little older and hence knew exactly what was happening around him and even wrote to the
Prime Minister. He knew the big game which was being played, so this is not to say that
other stories were not interesting. One is only saying that this came to me and it inspired
me. I felt that it by itself would be a representative of all the other heroes, which is why we
covered them in the film. For me the story of Manjunath is not just his specific story. It’s
also a concept of such heroes from my reading, from what I know and my guess as what
happened. Most of these people are from the middle-class and cannot have any other
way, i.e., a class which has idealism and will be stuck with idealism even if it’s sometimes
illogical; also a class which leaves behind a legacy of its values most of all. They have
humble backgrounds. They have good education and awareness. They feel a sense of
responsibility of their education and of giving back. At the time when they start taking
risks they are the main bread-earners of their families. Their families had sacrificed a lot
“““““I realized the potency of Manjunath, the
power of his personality.”””””

3. 3
ET CASES
IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality... Interview with Sandeep A. Varma
to give them their education, probably taken loans or sacrificed the future of other children
in the family, with the hope that when these people will get a good job, will start earning
and then they will take care of their families. This was the pressure on these people when
they took these risks. Their sacrifice is even bigger because after them there is nothing
left for these families. Most of these families of the heroes who have died are floundering
very badly and there is no one to take care of them. The governments have abandoned
them and so have we.
2. “And then coincidently I was contacted by the Manjunath Shanmugam Trust, not for
a feature film but for some advertising work.” Can you please throw some light on
what this advertising work was all about?
At that time the Trust was actively fighting the case for justice for Manjunath, at the
Lakhimpur Sessions Court. Given that we know what can happen to such cases (as has
been seen in the past), I think the need was felt to talk actively about the positive values
of Manjunath and what he stood for, through media and other forms of communication. To
this effect, the Trust wanted to put up posters wherever they got permission for (colleges,
etc.), distribute booklets on Manjunath’s life. Later, the Trust instituted the Manjunath
Integrity awards which were held annually. This was to recognize individuals within the
government and outside who fought against odds for integrity in their jobs. For these
awards functions, they needed Audio Visuals to be created.
The Trust did not have any money to spend on this, and they got through to me because
one of the Trustees knew me from 10 years. Although we had lost touch in those 10 years,
when I used to know her, she did not run any Trust and as a matter of fact was a successful
banker in the private sector.
Suddenly, one day I received a call from her all the way from Mysore, she had called my ad
agencynumberandtoldmeabouttheTrustanditsactivities.Shesoughttheworkmentioned
above, and that all of it needed to be pro bono (free). I agreed after talking to my employees
(I wanted their cooperation since the work was substantial and was to be pro bono; and
in an ad agency creative people generally get incentives for good work and here there was
to be none).
I agreed because I was surprised to see a successful highly educated banker make such
sacrifices – it motivated and inspired me. It’s another example of how Manjunath inspired
them and they inspired me – a chain reaction arising out of such personalities.

4. 4
ET CASES
Interview with Sandeep A. Varma IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality...
3. What were the ordeals that you had to go through from script to screenplay, actors,
funding, screening, etc.? How did you overcome them?
Script & Screenplay:
The biggest problem with the story was that Manju dies and I wanted to make it in a
commercial feature film format and not documentary/art-house movie. In our films, the
hero doesn’t die in the end. I wanted Manju to be presented like a hero, though he doesn’t
physically take them on, I wanted heroism to be sensed. Only recently I got that glimpse I
had expected, for the first time in Delhi at the Jagran Film Festival screening, when I saw
theaudiencereactingthewayIwantedthemtoreactwhentherealManjunath’sphotograph
came in the end of the movie. I heard whistles, which is the heroism I wanted to display
and wanted the audience to feel. So the story couldn’t have ended with Manju dying. And
youdon’twanttostartwithhisdeatheitherbecauseifyoudo,thenitwon’tbeanemotional
death. Because you don’t know the guy and you are not already in love with him. So, if his
death scene had to come around or just after the interval, the conflict had to be rethought.
The brainwave happened because I was talking to one of Manjunath’s closest friends.
When I asked him why this happened with Manju he said, “I think he was a little naïve. He
“““““I agreed because I was surprised to see a
successful highly educated banker make such
sacrifices – it motivated and inspired me.”””””
was a South Indian in UP. He did not realize the dangers.” My gut feel was that he was
being unreasonable towards his friend because Manju would have had to be really stupid
to be in U.P., work there for such a long time and not realize the dangers and as my research
subsequently showed that he had no chance of not realizing the dangers. He had been
threatened with guns many times. I felt that if his closest friend can talk like this then
obviously the general consensus in today’s atmosphere is that people like Manju – you can
admire them but I think that, one would never privately advise their best friend or brother
or sister to tread on that route. Today, there is no appreciation for fighting for the right
thing.
Manjunath made the sacrifices fully knowing the consequences. He went against the
expectations of his own family because he was trying to do his duty. Yet there was sheer

5. 5
ET CASES
IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality... Interview with Sandeep A. Varma
ingratitude on the part of his friend and people in general, all of which made me very
angry.
So, in the movie, the conflict for the audience was decided right at the beginning, when
Manju addresses the audience and says, “Some say I was stupid, others think I was great.
I don’t know what it was.” So that’s a clear thought – “Are people like me idiots or are
people like me courageous?” We defined this in the beginning so that the audience was in
the right frame of mind while watching the movie.
Actors:
This is Bollywood and apart from as a filmmaker what you look for in a certain character
while casting, you also have to think about the commercial aspect. I knew then and even
more now, that there is a very little hope for a film if you don’t have a top star.
I did think of getting a known actor to play the lead role. But it clashed in this particular
case. The material what had attracted me to Manjunath was that he was young. His youth
was very important because it makes you feel even bad that he was such a young man and
was killed. Second, that he was a South Indian, dark skinned boy, in UP, in a belt which was
highly racist, and was a part of the inherent conflict. If you put all these things together
then there was no one, in the top ten stars at least, which was worth going for.
I wanted a common man’s hero. Not a celebrity hero. So we took a risky choice. I took a
new guy as the lead actor. Since I wanted a South Indian, I auditioned all over the place
from Bombay to Chennai to Bangalore. I found a boy in Bangalore. Then it turned out that
he was from Bombay itself. As a matter of fact in real life he doesn’t look anything like the
real Manjunath. But there was something in him which resonated with the spirit of
Manjunath. There was a sincerity in his eyes which is why I chose him. Then we worked for
three and a half to four months, almost 6-8 hours every day. I wanted him not to play
Manjunath, I wanted him to be Manjunath which means even when he was not rehearsing
he should be like him. I realized that since my lead actor was a newcomer, I needed to give
the film some kind of credibility. So I started looking around for some really good and
respected actors to surround that lead role. I was lucky enough to get some fantastic
actors like Seema Biswas (who is internationally more acclaimed than in India), Yashpal
Sharma, Divya Dutta, Rajesh Khattar and Anjorie Alagh.
I don’t think anyone said no, because the role was small or big or that the money was less.
With no offence meant but had it not been for the Bombay film industry, with the kind of

6. 6
ET CASES
Interview with Sandeep A. Varma IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality...
cast we have, we would come across as a very credible casting if not an A-list casting.
Somehow I felt that it wasn’t publicized that well at the time of release for whatever
reason. Otherwise we were happy with the casting.
Funding:
There is no funding for a movie like this. First of all, until I had a script I could not ask
anyone for funds. In this case I didn’t only just have to write the script, but also had to do
research, which is very expensive because all the research was not in Bombay. His friends,
colleagues and family are all over the country. And you can’t do everything on emails and
phone. If you want to get the truth then you have to spend time with people. It took years
to do this research. And while doing all of this, I didn’t even know whether I would have a
script. Only after you get the resource material in, is when you process it to figure out
whether you have a script.
After the script was ready, I sent it across to a couple of private people, producers and
there was a lot of interest in it as a sensational headline. People wanted to put in some
item songs since it was UP-based with some mafia barons or something around it. I do
understand that all those are promotional tools and that is what works. But in this film I
was very clear that I did not want even the killers to be larger than life. They had to be real.
The people who killed Manju called themselves his friends. They had met his mother. She
made them coffee. They were normal people whom he had disturbed. It was what he was
doing that caused his killing and not that they were killers. There is a difference. There
was private interest and they had their own reasons.
After months passed, one day I asked my assistants to make some calls to all the places
where we had sent the proposals to. NFDC was one of the places. We called them and they
started scolding my assistant saying, “where were you people? You didn’t come and meet
us for Manjunath. We had sent you letters”.
So I went to NFDC the next day and they told me, we had sent you the letter. Then they
realized when the guy opened his drawer that he had forgotten to post it. So it wasn’t too
late. I met the NFDC person who was nice and supportive. The NFDC budgets are not really
high. She told me to cut down the budget. I refused. I suggested them to co-produce. She
asked me about the rest of the money. I told her that I had it. She gave me 60 days to show
her the rest of the money. I came out and I remember thinking to myself about how I would
organize money which ran into crores.

7. 7
ET CASES
IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality... Interview with Sandeep A. Varma
For first 15-20 days I looked around for a co-producer which was the most obvious thing to
do. But soon, it became clear to me that for the interest of the film if anyone had to put the
balance money, it had to be me. I knew at that time that I would have to make big sacrifices.
I thought about all this and as usual, as a complete coward, thought against it. Since I had
taken permission from Manjunath’s parents and the Trust, I went back to them to tell them
that I won’t be able to make the film. I can’t raise the money. I had spoken to a known
director who could do the film instead. I thought that they would be happy with a better
known director. But to my surprise Manjunath’s mother flatly refused. She said if I didn’t
make it, they would withdraw permission. I guess this was because there was some kind
of trust that I would represent the movie better. I understood then that she had no idea
about the commercial aspects. She was just taking an emotional decision.
I kind of felt ashamed that I didn’t even have 10% of the courage that Manjunath had. I
was just taking a financial risk. It’s not like I was putting my life at risk. Eventually, I
decided to put my investments. Once I did that then things started happening around me.
Someone came forward and said that they know some government bank who offered loans
at a very low interest. Lot of my friends and family people started helping. Manjunath’s
friends who I never expected, absolute strangers offered their help. The IIM gave us
permission to shoot for free. The actors and technicians worked at half their usual fee. It
made me believe that if you really want to do something then others will get that vibe.
That was a great learning for me. So this is basically how the funding for film production
happened.
Release:
When you promote a film like Manjunath as against a regular potboiler there is a difference.
Because the promotion itself, is like a public interest campaign even if the movie doesn’t
do well, the promotion has done half the job. You talk about what Manju did and what
people like Manju did. The movie becomes an excuse to talk about those things. So I
realized that I wanted to go with the big studio. I reached out to Viacom 18. As for promotion
Viacom 18 has tried within its financial logic. I feel also that studios work on standard
models and get uncomfortable with movies with a potential but needing a change of
approach.
Either way, the movie has been under-promoted. I don’t think that it’s anyone’s fault but
it’s just the way the system functions for non-star cast films. The trade is not very patient

8. 8
ET CASES
Interview with Sandeep A. Varma IIM Lucknow's Manjunath Shanmugam: Purpose-driven Personality...
with them. The media also doesn’t pick it up that much. But I am very happy that finally the
movie has seen a national release with nation-wide promotion. But because of elections,
IPL and the nine releases on that day we got drowned in terms of the date of the release.
A lot of people have written to me saying that they were unaware of the release. They
knew about the movie and were waiting for it. You need a big bang mass media promotion
at the time of release. The game has become a first weekend game which is tough on
movies which don’t have a star cast. But for a movie like this, it needs to build up on
word-of-mouth. Our movie also built on word-of-mouth. The first day audience which we
had, were very poor and Monday onwards our collections were improving which normally
doesn’t happen. But then the trade lost patience afterwards. So I am a little unhappy with
that part. I was unhappy more with myself than anyone else.
There is still a lot of demand for the movie. There is demand from the audience to watch it
so we had full houses at Jagran Film Festival for ours. So that’s good. I would presume that
online and on television a lot of people will watch it because of latent demand. The media
also is not very satisfied so they keep on asking me questions. I think that it has a life and
shelf value. The movie will get appreciated with time. It is the document of our times.
Five-six years, ten years down the line when we look back, we will see this movie and say
there was hard work and extensive research in this movie, which was all authentic. So
that’s fine. I think that will do the job.