Stories about Dr. W. Edwards Deming

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In a recent podcast, Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013, I interviewed Dr. Joyce Orsini, a professor of Fordham University and president of the W. Edwards Deming Institute and Kevin Cahill, the Executive Director of the Institute. Dr. Orsini has also recently authored the book, The Essential Deming: Leadership Principles from the Father of Quality and Kevin is the grandson of Dr. Deming. This is a transcription of the podcast.

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Stories about Dr. W. Edwards Deming

  1. 1. Business901 Podcast Transcription Implementing Lean Marketing SystemsDr. W. Edwards Deming: A Difference Maker Guest was Dr. Joyce Osini and Kevin Cahill Related Podcast: Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Sponsored by Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  2. 2. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems About the Deming Institute: The W. Edwards Deming Institute® was founded by Dr. Deming in 1993 to provide educational services related to his theories and teachings. The aim of The W. Edwards Deming Institute is to foster understanding of The Deming System of Profound Knowledge® to advance commerce, prosperity and peace. Kevin Edwards Cahill, Successor Founding Trustee is Dr. Deming’s grandson. He currently volunteers full-time as Executive Director of The W. Edwards Deming Institute® where he oversees general operations and development. Previously, Kevin was the co-founder and CEO of ViewBridge, Inc. Prior to that; he was Vice President Sales Manager for media rep firm, Katz Communications. As a member and chairman of the system oversight committee, he helped guide the design and implementation of various sales, technology, and management systems. Kevin holds a BA in history from UCLA. Joyce Nilsson Orsini, Ph.D., Associate Trustee, is Associate Professor of Management Systems at Fordham University Graduate School of Business, where she directs the Deming Scholars MBAprogram. She has been a practicing statistician and consultant toindustrial management and government for more than 25years. Dr. Deming directed her doctoral dissertation research atNew York University. She assisted Dr. Deming with his teachingat N.Y.U., as well as with many public and private seminars. TheMetropolitan Section of the American Society for Quality awardedher the Deming Medal. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  3. 3. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Transcription of PodcastJoe: Welcome, everyone. This is Joe Dager, the host of theBusiness901 podcast. With me today is two distinguished guestsfrom the W. Edwards Deming Institute. For those of you that maynot know about the Institute, it is a nonprofit organizationdedicated to fostering understanding of the Deming system ofprofound knowledge. My two guests are Dr. Joyce Orsini, aprofessor of Fordham University and president of the DemingInstitute and Kevin Cahill, the Executive Director of the Institute.I would like to welcome the both of you and old-fashioned or not,Dr. Orsini, would you start out and give me an update about yournew book, "The Essential Deming."Dr. Orsini: Well, its out, published my McGraw Hill. It came outthe end of November and it brings together a lot of the speechesand writings of Dr. Deming that never made it into his otherbooks or hasnt had much of a circulation and it includes some ofthe topics that he talked about all the time as well as sometopics. I candidly had never heard him talk about before. So forme, it was interesting and I think for others, even those whohave read his earlier books, will find new things in the book.Joe: Could you tell me a little about your connection with Dr.Deming?Dr. Orsini: Yes, well, I met Dr. Deming when I was a student atNYU in 1971. He was a teacher--an elderly teacher, 71 years old--and he was teaching courses on the theory of sampling and thedesign of statistical studies. As a major in quantitative analysis,those were two topics that interested me and thats how I methim. Over the years, we talked more and more outside of theclass, obviously, and got to know him fairly well and spend sometime with him that continued until 1993. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  4. 4. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: Well, Kevin, can you tell me about the Institute and whatrole theyve assumed in furthering Dr. Demings thoughts?Kevin: Deming Institute--the idea behind it is to Instituteteachings of my grandfather, Dr. Deming, to a new generation foran evolving world. The Institute believes it is important to inspireindividuals and organizations to make a difference and as aninstitute, our great joy as a nonprofit is when we can inspirepeople to think differently, ask questions, and seek newknowledge, something my grandfather thought was veryimportant.Thats the essence of what we believe in and why we do it isbecause we believe its good for families and communities andbusiness and we do that through a number of different elements:we inspire people to explore a new way to think about themselvesand their organizations. We believe thats a way of thinking thatcan be used and understood at all levels and we aim to foster anunderstanding of the Deming System of Profound Knowledge, aswe said on the website, to advance commerce, prosperity, andpeace.Joe: Well, I think its interesting. Most of us were introduced toDr. Deming through quality and thats where we first think ofhim, but he spent a lot of time really in a much greater sensethan just quality. Can one of you explain, "Profound knowledge" alittle, just to get a basic understanding of it?Dr. Orsini: Profound knowledge is, in my opinion, theaccumulation of what he was working on throughout his wholelife. He talked about different parts of different aspects ofmanagement and quality. Toward the end of his life, he identifiedthat what he was really talking about were four fields ofknowledge: one of those fields being understanding peoplethrough use of whats known in the field of psychology, he talked Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  5. 5. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsabout statistical variation, which was a topic that hes beenworking on since World War II and before, he talked aboutsystems thinking--not so much in the traditional sense that youhear people talking about systems, but more in terms of gettingthis organization that were a part of operating as a systembecause, as you know, most organizations break themselvesdown into little parts and dont really function as a system orcomponent.The theory of knowledge that comes directly out of epistemologyhas a lot of insight into how we learn, how we know what weknow as people, as organizations. These people, these fields, heconcluded, were probably what he was talking about and so hecalled them profound knowledge. He felt it was a much deeperknowledge than most corporate executives have. Interestingly,someone at one of his seminars said: "Dr. Deming, if I went outand got an expert in each of these four fields, would I, then havethis profound knowledge that youre talking about?"And after a little thought, Deming said, "No, Im afraid not,"because its not the individual fields that are profound--althoughthey are--its the interaction which brings the essence of whathes talking, how all these fields interact and thats when hebegan to call it a system of profound knowledge to make it clearwhat he was talking about.Joe: So when hes saying, "systems thinking," hes really talkingabout blending those four components of profound knowledgetogether.Dr. Orsini: Yes, yes he is. And using them in the organization sothat the organization works as a system. Instead of beingcompetitive, one department with another, that type of thing,which is fairly common. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  6. 6. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsJoe: When I read The Essential Deming, I took from it that hethought that, really, even with competitors, sharing ofcompetitors, he used the example of sharing tow trucks with twogasoline fuel stations. He looked at that systems thinking beyondjust your individual organization.Dr. Orsini: Absolutely, but when somebody would ask him about,"Well, how big is the system?" he would say, "Well, start withyour company and then, when you get done with that, come backand Ill help you figure out the rest of the system." But someoneconjectured once that the whole world is a system and certainlywe know that from the sustainability viewpoint.Joe: Kevin, of all the accomplishments that Dr. Deming had, whatdo you think he would want to be remembered by most? Is itprofound knowledge?Kevin: Thats a good question. Its not one Id want to try toanswer on his behalf, but thinking about it, I think he would beproud of the fact that, close to 20 years after his passing, thatpeople are still looking at his ideas as an opportunity to make adifference in this world and make peoples lives better. I thinkthat would be one of the most important things, not that oneparticular company was successful but that his ideas were stillcontinuing to permeate throughout the world and that theyre stillinterested in them.As you read The Essential Deming, one of the things that struckme was I would read chapters that Joyce had put together andsay they are as relevant today as when he wrote some of thosepapers and the fact, we hadnt listened would be something onthe opposite side that I think he would say would be one of hisbiggest disappointments.Joe: I think theyre so relevant today that Im surprised. he Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  7. 7. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemswasnt considered kind of like Galileo. Galileo got locked up,okay? It wasnt heresy back in the 90s or something cause it isso relevant today.Kevin: Well, especially when you look at the school system. Therewere a number of articles in there that were talking about schoolsand how we treat kids in grades and it really struck me that somuch of thats true today and I think one of the things that Joycepointed out, that he came back to over and over, was the factthat performance appraisals and merit pay, how devastating theyare to organizations, a lot of times without them realizing it.I think one of the things that struck me in the book, in particular,was the fact that the people who made it to the top who are theCEOs who are saying these performance appraisals and theseways of making a difference are the ways to go because thatshow I got to the top, so thats how everybody should get to thetop and that because they did well in performance appraisalsmeans that everybody else should like them and they should be amechanism to get people to the top when they really are not.Joe: We think of Toyota as being the best case study of Dr.Demings work and its where Lean has evolved from. Am Istudying Deming when I read, lets say, The Toyota Way?Kevin: I honestly dont know enough about how Toyota doesthings to say that they are using Deming. Im sure mygrandfather would say they might be using some of Deming andmaybe not all of it. I really dont know that, but I do know whatwe saw with this Toyota crisis, that when Akio Toyoda wentbefore Congress and started talking, one of the things he said:"We have to get back to our roots. We have to get back to whatwe were doing."So, in that sense, I think they learned some lessons and they Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  8. 8. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemstook some of the background that they had being exposed toDeming to say rather than our aim being to be the biggest carcompany in the world, we need to change our aim back tobuilding quality vehicles or modes of transportation for people. Ithink thats a realization and an acknowledgement that, yes, weneed to look back at what weve done and what weve learnedfrom Deming back in the 50s and 60s.I do think what Joyce said was the system of profound knowledgewas a culmination of his lifes body of work and it really camethrough at the end and; in the 50s and 60s, he was usingelements of that but he hadnt synthesized it yet.Joe: I look at it as such a broad stroke--what profound knowledgeis but his roots are in statistical and a lot of people that wereattracted to him were statisticians--I think Hunter, Joiner, wereall statisticians and maybe even Dr. Orsini?Dr. Orsini: Thats correct.Joe: Why do you think thats true? Just because of the way hetalked or the way he approached things?Dr. Orsini; Its very appealing from a scientific viewpoint. Demingspent most of his time before World War II writing about physics--equal potential circuits, electrons, and that type of thing. Thatwas his basic grounding. Id say from about 1937 until 1980 orso, he focused on statistics and sampling and his writings, hiswork, his teachings. That, I think, is what brought to his mind theimportance of statistical variation--which he had studied earlierwith Walter Shewhart--and caused him to start building links outto statistics.A lot of what he talks about in systems thinking and psychologyand theory of knowledge actually had their roots in the statistical Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  9. 9. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthinking and, in my experience, people who have a statisticalbackground get Deming quicker than people who have, forexample, a psychology background or some other discipline. So,somehow, it all links into logic and scientific thinking, I believe.Joe: Well, I found out recently in another podcast when we weretalking about Dr. Deming that he was also a composer. Is there arelationship there between composing and statistical thinking?Dr. Orsini: Well, Ive been told that statisticians--ormathematicians, in general—are often quite good with music, so Idont know. Ive heard that but I dont know if its true or not. Buthe certainly was; he was a composer; he loved music, wrotemusic. He revised the Star-Spangled Banner to make it singablewithout all the high extremes on it. He lowered it so that theaverage person could sing it. So he reduced the variation, if youwill, in the music.Joe: Spoken like a true statistician, right? Reduce the variation ofthe Star-Spangled Banner—I love that. Lean seems to be somuch about waste, but in Deming, I find more things aboutknowledge creation. What are the differences between Demingand Lean, can one of you talk about that a bit?Dr. Orsini: Well, I could comment and then if Kevin wants to, hemay, too. Demings aim--I believe all through his writings--hasbeen toward the senior management of an organization and, at asenior level, you need to focus on strategy and knowledge-basedconcepts to run the organization and as you work down thetraditional hierarchy of the organization, you get the various toolsand concepts that are designed for the everyday worker.You will find that Deming didnt go into how to do control charts;he would talk about them--motivate an interest in them, maybegive a little sketch--but he never taught a course to anyone Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  10. 10. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemswhom I know about on actually all the little intricacies of doingthe control chart. He thought those were things people couldapply and they could that were more skill-based than knowledge-based, and he was aiming for the people that are developing thestrategy of the organization, more so than the tools.Lean, in a large part, is looking to eliminate waste. Well, hetalked about eliminating waste; he just didnt call it "lean." At thetime, he was talking about it, perhaps that expression didntexist; I dont know. But a lot of the things that are incorporatedin the quality programs that you hear about today do have, attheir base, some of Demings ideas.Joe: I think most of them do, actually, have Demings ideas atthe base that Ive seen and Ive seen the development in theLean software community that has developed a little differentlythan manufacturing because they are much more aboutknowledge creation than they are waste. A quality person cameback to me and asked; "can these quality methods of Deming beapplied to services in civil governance and education?" Irecommended to him; I said just go pick up The Essential Demingbecause Deming talks more about applying those principles tocivil governance and education than he does, really, aboutmanufacturing in a lot of his work! Is that true?Dr. Orsini: Absolutely. Deming had a lot of service clients. Ivebeen in service most of my industry--banking and education. Ithink what has some people confused or concerned aboutwhether it applies to service is that a lot of the language that hasevolved around quality principles are developed around languagefamiliar with manufacturers and service companies say, "Oh, well,that must be manufacturing because of the language."For example: inventory. As soon as you say inventory, everybodythinks manufacturing but, in fact, you and I have inventory right Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  11. 11. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsnow. We have our e-mails--maybe theyre on the screen rightnow—thats our inventory. Its waiting to be answered. So youhave an inventory policy, for example. Some people will open upthe latest e-mail first, all right? Some people will open up the firste-mail that came in first. Others have a priority in their mind--"Oh, this one is from my spouse. Im going to look at that onefirst."These are all different inventory systems and theyre described inevery operations textbook that exists, but we dont think of it asinventory. So I think in the service industry, either we need todevelop our own lexicon, or we need to see what these nameslike inventory are in our type of organization.Kevin: Joe, I was going to say the other thing that jumped out atme is that a lot of when my grandfather--I was there with himwhen that "Japan Can, Why Cant We?" aired on June 24th, 1980,and I was staying with him for the summer and I noticed that alot of the phone calls that came in were from people who were inthe manufacturing sector initially.I think a lot of "Japan Can, Why Cant We?" which introduced mygrandfather back into the United States on a very large scale,were focused on manufacturing in the beginning and a lot of theattention that went to the Deming ideas instead of some of thesmall companies and organizations where it may have had on theservice sector and education had such an impact, were ones likeFord and General Motors and Xerox and Procter & Gamble thatwere in that sector.I think thats what ended up happening was Ive talked to peoplewho say oh, yeah; hes the guy who really helpedmanufacturing. Well, manufacturings leaving the U.S., its goingto China, and Demings not as relevant today as a result of that.So its that initial belief or thats what they originally heard was Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  12. 12. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat he was involved in manufacturing.Joe: We talked about the merit system. Do you think thatsmaybe why some of these principles havent been applied somuch to sales and marketing because we are driven by salescommissions?Kevin: Joe, absolutely, because I grew up in a sales environment,my first jobs were in sales, running sales organizations, and hereI am, Dr. Demings grandson, and as I first started to read this,first of all, as you said earlier, I thought it was for manufacturing--here I am, his grandson, and I thought it was for manufacturing.Then, when I quickly realized it wasnt for manufacturing and itcould be applied when it came to sales organizations, everybodysinto performance appraisals--merit pay, commissions, and allthose types of things. Thats what I was exposed to and thatswhat I grew up with in that environment.Absolutely, in pertains to those types of organizations and I dothink thats a struggle because Ive talked to a number ofdifferent organizations from a sales standpoint and they justcannot get past the fact that if you eliminate commissions, youcan actually have tremendous gains and change the way thingswork.Once you explain it to them a little about how people work oncommissions and how theyre focused on themselves and not theoverall aim of the organization, then things become verydifferent. However, it is a huge struggle in sales and marketingorganizations and I know thats something that you work withquite a bit.Joe: Ive seen it where that conversation--as far as the salescompensation structure is one of the things that stops continuousimprovement, system-type thinking taking hold, and thats why I Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  13. 13. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsreally ask the question.What are the future goals of the Deming Institute?Kevin: The future goals of the Institute are to continue to spreadthe ideas of my grandfather, to provide knowledge opportunitiesfor individuals and organizations, and to grow and expand ourprograms so more people have them available. Part of what thenew website that will be coming out pretty soon is to exposepeople to organizations and education, civic--any type of areathat is using Deming--sometimes they may be at an early stageof it; they may be at a more advanced stage, so people can seethat Deming is still alive today, it is more relevant than ever, andput it in the context of problems that we have right now.As a matter of fact, weve done a series of articles onorganization--you may be aware--called Process ExcellenceNetwork, and one of the most popular articles was looking at theBP oil disaster through the lens of Deming and Goldratt and howit couldve been avoided and some of the mistakes that weremade. So thats really the aim of the Institute, is to continue tomake a difference in peoples and organizations lives and webelieve that exposing them to the theory of knowledge andhaving them understand that and think differently and as I said,ask better questions, will make a difference in their lives.Joe: One of the questions I always wanted to ask someone didDr. Deming and Peter Drucker ever get together? I mean, theyare the two most prominent people in my mind aboutmanagement and leadership thats influenced my life and theyseem to run parallel paths. Did they ever get together and talk toeach other?Kevin: Well, I can tell you--Joyce may know some more specifics.I had read something--this goes back a number of years ago-- Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  14. 14. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsthat Peter Drucker and my father--I was asking the samequestion a number of years ago and talked to my mother a littleabout it and she said, "You know; I think they did." We reachedout to Peter Drucker and he was his 90s at the time and living inClaremont in the Warren/Los Angeles area and said, "You know;wed like to come and talk to you about my grandfather and yourrelationship,” and he said he would love to meet us.My mother and I went out there; we did it twice; the first time,because hes in his 90s, we met him at his house and he said,"Ive only got about a half-hour," and we ended up spendingalmost two hours with him. He asked if we would come backagain and, about six months later, we spent another two, two-and-a-half hours with him and he talked about how they had metand worked together and had different ideas and so much of theirstuff did dovetail. So, yes, they did have a relationship. Joycemay have more specifics on where that was and how thatevolved.Dr. Orsini: They were both at New York University; theyoverlapped somewhat in their tenures there. They had atremendous respect for one another. Sometimes you see peoplewho are running more parallel paths than integrated paths, nothaving much respect for one another, but these men did. Mysense from what Dr. Deming told me was they enjoyed comingtogether and talking about their differences. They were verycollegial.Kevin: I got the same thing from Peter Drucker, his time at NYUand how much fun they had together and talking about differentideas. He clearly felt that from his side, too.Joe: I would just think from the things Ive read that they arrivedat similar points from different directions. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  15. 15. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsDr. Orsini: Thats a great way to say it.Kevin: Thats perfect.Joe: How do you think Dr. Deming would want to be rememberedin the future? What do you think would be important to him?Kevin: I think it would be important for him to know that peoplestill want to make a difference; people still want to come togetherand see through problems that were facing in todays world, andI think he would like to be remembered as somebody who madesome small contribution towards his own country. I mean,everyone always talks about the differences he made in Japanand I think that was incredibly important to him.But I think hed like to see that he could also have made adifference in the lives and communities and families andorganizations of people in his own country and those around theworld, because, when you think about it from a systemstandpoint, the U.S. is just one component of a larger system.Dr. Orsini: Also, a reporter once asked Dr. Deming that questionwhen I was there so I got to hear his response and his responseis that hed like to be remembered as someone who tried toprevent companies from committing suicide.Joe: I could laugh because I could actually see him saying it. Doyou still put on the annual four-day seminars or have youcondensed them down or how do those conferences go now?Kevin: We do a number of different things--we have two-and-a-half day seminars that actually Joyce worked with a number ofthe individuals who are still facilitating it. I dont know, Joyce, ifthat were 10, 12, 15 years ago--which is a little bit of acondensation from the four-day down to two-and-a-half days, sowe still do that. We offer the four-day at times. We have not done Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  16. 16. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systemsit recently.We do a lot of half-day, one-day workshops that are anintroduction to Deming so that people, the idea is to expose themto the ideas and maybe something will grab them within there,within that half-day or full-day, that theyll want to continue toexplore and go beyond just that half-day or one-day and start tolook at the two-and-a-half day, start to read the book, start togain that new knowledge.We also do an annual conference every year, alternating betweendifferent universities, and then we have the international Demingresearch seminar that Joyce hosts at Fordham University that isterrific and Joyce can talk a little about that, too. But we do thosetypes of things as well as research, guidance; well supportpeople who are interested in going to the Library of Congress withscholarships; we do a preservation of my grandfathers works,and were bringing prints to the Deming Library that ClaraCrawford Mason put together back in the 80s and 90s. Its goingto be a Deming Institute asset going forward, so were doing a lotof those types of things to make people aware of the ideas ofDeming.Joe, as you know, you spoke to John Hunter--we have a Demingblog, a Twitter--so were doing a lot of different things to exposepeople to the ideas who have never heard of them before andsome that have that have moved away from them and looked atdifferent things.Dr. Orsini: And, by the way, Kevin didnt mention, but hesbrought these seminars to other parts of the world. I mean, thisis not limited to the United States. In fact, Kevin, I think youhave seminars in Singapore, right?Kevin: Yes, weve been doing that. We have a partner in Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  17. 17. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsSingapore and weve expanded quite a bit there and been doingtwo or three engagements a year in Singapore and not just goingand doing a two-and-a-half day seminar because thats thebeginning of it but trying to build that infrastructure afterwardswhere they can continue to work with us, be exposed to us, talkwith us as they go through their PTSA cycles, for example. Werelooking to expand even further in the Malaysia-Indonesia region,too, outside of just Singapore.Joe: Well, I think what separates Dr. Deming from the quality andthe other quality circles or quality people is that so much of whathe talks about touches you more on a personal level andunderstanding it from a personal sense and quality--I dont wantto say developed out of the person--but its developed out of theorganization as a living thing and maybe thats why hescontinued. What thoughts would you like to end the conversationwith here?Kevin: Well, Ill go first and let Joyce finish, but Joe, what youjust said there, I think, is really, really interesting because mywife, Judy, has a background in marketing and advertising andwhen I started to tell her about my grandfather--when she and Ifirst met about 10 years ago--she came to a conclusion a lot ofpeople did, "Oh, this is kind of interesting, but its really gearedtoward manufacturing."But as she started to explore it a little more, it really struck herabout how it pertains to the individual and how important it wasto her as an individual and how she started to look at things andsometimes it led to greater frustration as you would see the waydifferent organizations and people and businesses operated, but italso was an eye-opening thing. I think that, to her, what you justsaid was really the key that it impacted her as an individual andthe way she thinks and then you can bring it into theorganization. You have that transformation as the individual first. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  18. 18. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing SystemsDr. Orsini: Dr. Deming also got communications from people whohad attended his seminar telling him how much what he saidmade a difference in their lives. One woman, for example, saidthat she and her husband used to be very competitive with oneanother and she was always so thrilled when she would win andher husband would lose and then she began to think after aDeming seminar, "Well, who wants to be married to a loser?" Shebegan to develop a different relationship with her husband. ButDeming often said that you have to understand yourself what thisis all about and feel it through a personal transformation, if youwill, and then you can reach out and help your corporation andhelp other people.Joe: I think thats very well said and I love to leave a Dr. Demingconversation on a personal note, so I would like to thank youvery much for your input today and this podcast will be availableon the Business901 blog site and the Business 901 iTunes storeso thanks to both of you.Dr. Orsini: Thank you, its been a pleasure.Kevin: Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it. Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901
  19. 19. Business901 Podcast TranscriptionImplementing Lean Marketing Systems Joseph T. Dager Business901 Phone: 260-918-0438 Skype: Biz901 Fax: 260-818-2022 Email: jtdager@business901.com Website: http://www.business901.com Twitter: @business901Joe Dager is president of Business901, a firm specializing inbringing the continuous improvement process to the sales andmarketing arena. He takes his process thinking of over thirtyyears in marketing within a wide variety of industries and appliesit through Lean Marketing and Lean Service Design. Visit the Lean Marketing Lab Marketing with Lean Book Series Lean Sales and Marketing Workshop Lean Service Design Workshop Dr. W. Edwards Deming: Still making a difference in 2013 Copyright Business901

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