hutchison effect scientists

AMERICAN ANTIGRAVITY PAGE 2
By Tim Ventura & Harold Berndt, June 29th, 2007
For three years now, Harold Berndt has been on the trail of something big - and he may have
finally found it: In early 2006, he captured the first new footage of the classic Hutchison Effect,
with video that touched off a firestorm of controversy on the internet. We join Harold to talk about
his experiences hunting UFO's and other strange phenomenon, and for the first time he reveals the
mystery behind the secretive annual Mt. Shasta retreat...
AAG: Everybody has that one experience that opens them up to the unknown, and I'm wondering
what that inspiration was for you. What first got you interested in UFO's?
Berndt: On the surface you would think this should be a fairly easy question to answer. I guess
I've always thought about the ET/UFO phenomenon (as most people do, even if they don't publicly
admit it) as it's just such a fascinating topic. But the one experience that seemed to fully "awaken
me" to become this pro-active was a sighting I witnessed in August of 2004. After that sighting, I
became determined to find answers... and at first, I decided to look for an Earth bound answer as I
had heard about specialized and secret satellite arrays and other "stuff" we have up there. But
after receiving a number of "this isn't ours" responses, I began to check UFO reports to see if I
might come across a similar sighting. This research took me to some pretty far out sources with
many different ideas and I soon realized I was in the middle of a kind of "swamp-gas" pool of
everything from the kooky, silly and downright weird views on the phenomena to some of the
most compelling evidence and testimony available. I found very early on that what I was getting
into was going to require a great deal of discernment and caution as it's my opinion (as well as
many others) that this is one of the most (if not thee most) controversial, misinformed and
misunderstood topics on the planet today. I also soon realized I was "growing-up" in many

Mt. Shasta: Dr. Steven Greer (left) and Harold
Berndt on retreat at the Mt. Shasta UFO-gathering.
respects as I slowly came to realize this entire other "world" had been taking place while I was so
blissfully naive and unaware.
AAG: Now it's logical that if you're studying
UFO's you'd run across Disclosure Project, but
you've gone even further and become the
Vancouver area representative for the project.
I'm wondering what you saw in this project
that really sold you on it, and what it means to
be the area representative?
Berndt: You know, its one thing to head up
and lead a worthy cause... and it's another to
actually have the ability, talent and resolve to
see it through. What I found with DP, CSETI and
the other efforts, was a founder who not only
had above reproach credentials... but an
almost "born" ability to convey the message.
This is paramount in any worthy cause if it's to
be successful. I found and felt with Dr. Steven
Greer, a true, caring and more than able
individual. Disclosure is a grass roots effort and
as such, we are a non profit society with no
corporate or sponsored funding and we rely
heavily on volunteers and donations. I feel that
I'm not only a rep for Disclosure... but I'm a rep
for truth and I'm very proud and honored to be
a part of this effort!
AAG: I've heard that the Disclosure Project's
long awaited Washington DC presentation
happened only days before September 11th,
and the turmoil that followed has shifted
public attention towards more immediate
issues like global terrorism. Do you think
Disclosure took a hit due to timing, and as our
world slowly returns to normal, will Disclosure
once again build momentum?
Berndt: Actually, the DC conference was May 11, 2001 but the real headway and push for
congressional hearings was to come in the wake of the conference in the following months. Then
the tragic events of 9-11 happened and it seemed that causes like DP were relegated to the back
burner with the focus becoming absorbed in terrorism, who the next enemy might be, fear based
propaganda and so on... The country needed to grieve and heal and this is understandable. The
question is and looms larger -every day- with A-list celebrities like Rosie and Charlie Sheen

The “Drone”: This 2007 photo is the
latest fad in over 50 years of UFO reports.
speaking up as well as the countless scientists and specialists, all of whom are asking (if not
demanding) further independent investigations on 9-11. We could do a complete additional article
on this issue alone... but I'll leave it at that.
AAG: Hundreds of thousands of UFO sightings since the 50's make it a bona-fide phenomenon,
but it's been going on long enough without a definitive explanation that it's also become a culture,
and some would say a religion as well. Different storytellers talk about alien underground bases in
the desert, reverse-engineered government UFO's, abductions of thousands of people, and much
more...I'm wondering in your view what we know about UFO's, versus what we only think we know.
Berndt: Good Question... It's my personal analysis that we are being visited and have been from
perhaps the beginning (whenever that may have been). After you get past this important first step,
the fork in yellow brick road takes off in a series of
detours, off ramps and dead ends and negotiating the
road to the truth requires a tremendous amount of
discernment and discipline. The discipline factor (for me
anyway) involves being acutely aware of any residual
anthropocentric thoughts I may let slip through in
relation to the phenomenon. In reality, many aspects of
this phenomenon could, quite literally, be beyond the
comprehension of the human mind. This is why we
concentrate on the one common denominator that all
intelligent beings have in relation to each other... pure
unbound consciousness. I believe this is the foundation
we all must start from or we risk building a fragile
structure of pseudo-knowledge on top.
AAG: Is it enough simply to say that we know something is going on? I'm wondering if maybe we
don't need to know the whole story: only that something's happening and the best efforts by the
government that we know of included 3 men and a filing cabinet in project Blue Book. What are
your thoughts on something like a modern-day bluebook effort, perhaps including modern data-
mining techniques & potentially even open-sourcing the project to the public?
Berndt: Of course, it's now well known that Blue Book was a ruse... a kind of public pacifier and
never was an honest attempt at investigating the truth behind the phenomenon. In fact, J. Allen
Hynek who was placed as the head of this operation, later became a staunch believer and spoke
openly & honestly of his knowledge which is quite compelling considering he was an active
debunker in the beginning. Any forum for opening a dialogue and exposing the truth is paramount
in a complex effort like this. I believe the public must become pro-active in these issues, however,
it's going to take a collective paradigm shift to accomplish this. Too many people are satisfied as
long as they have their comforts and conveniences and it isn't until the apple cart is upset that
alerts the vast majority of the population to sit up a take notice. I have however noticed a subtle
change in attitudes with some of today's openly discussed issues such as the environment &
global warming, the "occupation" of Iraq and the tiring barrage of fear peddling that's becoming all
too obvious. I'm hopeful this trend of awakening will continue and evolve.

AAG: Speaking of which, I'm wondering if the bureaucracy that you deal with in Canada has the
same approach as down here in the states. These days, I think a lot of Americans feel that our
government is just plain incapable of telling the truth on any subject, and maybe that UFO's just
fall victim to the same cover-ups that happened with Monica Lewinsky and Halliburton. Now I
know that Disclosure has been pushing immunity from prosecution as a legal method for
encouraging whistleblowing, and I'm wondering what your thoughts are regarding this as a legal
tool for finding the truth.
Berndt: I believe our role in disclosure to be two fold. The initial focus was and is to create an
open forum for exposing the truth. Of course the reality is, disclosure could come in ways we
haven't anticipated... or worse, in ways we have and it's disclosure's work as well as that of our
parallel group CSETI to develop an understanding of the implications that may arise from
manipulated disclosure for specific agendas such as weoponizing space and a massive military
funding campaign should ET attack! In this event, our work will be one of education as a resource
to further the understanding of why this is happening and what we can do to help limit the
damage that results. Perhaps an online resource clearly identifying some of the many ways
disclosure may come as well as the agendas behind it. People need to wake up and understand
that "not all that glitters is gold" and when the eventual attempt at a pseudo-disclosure happens...
we need to have our antenna up. Regarding the legal ramifications, Dr. Greer makes an excellent
point as it's his opinion and I completely agree, that any agreements or gag orders any witness has
been place under are unconstitutional and therefore illegal and unenforceable. Many of our
witnesses have already bravely come forward believing they have a patriotic duty under those
wise and timeless words that start with "We the People"... Of course Congressional Hearings
would remove any ambiguity in this regard and we do have many more witnesses ready to come
forward under this protection.
AAG: On the other hand, if there is a conspiracy covering up UFO's like many people seem to
believe, is it possible that some kind of immunity is exactly what they're waiting for to come
forward? I mean, Nick Cook has written about the Air Force strong-arming witnesses at the site of
a stealth fighter crash-site, and I can't help but wonder how many careers or even lives have been
sacrificed in the sake of secrecy if any of this conspiracy talk is true. Wouldn't that in itself be
enough to warrant some kind of independent commission?
Berndt: You'd think so... wouldn't you? I can't help but put myself in the position of some of
these marginalized and/or eliminated individuals... and there is just too much evidence of lives
ruined or removed to protect information and secrets known by these people. To know that this
type of control was in fact used during the cold war etc... and to not consider that this would be a
"given" modus operandi in the covert world of black projects and especially the UFO/ETI
phenomenon... is in my opinion extremely naive.
AAG: I'd like to ask if you know what current trends are for the Disclosure Project. I mean, any
news about new government whisteblowers coming forward, and any rumors about another
presentation in Washington DC to build up that political lobby?

Dr. Steven Greer: Shown speaking about
close encounters at Mt. Shasta in mid-2006.
Berndt: I've been involved with Disclosure (and
related interests) for just about 3 years now and it
has become increasingly clear that disclosure just
may come in a form or at a time that we have
absolutely no control over. The initial focus for
disclosure's initiative was from a grass-roots level
with reps from all over the world holding
information presentations and getting the "word
out" as best as they can. Being a non profit society,
we rely quite heavily on volunteers and
presentations to give the general public enough
information so they can then perform their own due
diligence for themselves. I think it's quite possible
that we (humans) are so wrapped up in some of the
efforts and perceived successes (2001 Washington
conference as an example), that we forget that if ET,
(let's say... a more advance consciousness - et al)
wanted us to definitively know they are here... I think
I can safely say that within no time at all... the world
would be given the evidence "they need". I'm also
starting to believe that disclosure is taking it's
natural course... that, other than a few variables, the
plan has been in the works for a "little while" now.
And if you've been keeping up with some of the new
people speaking up such as Canada's former
Minister of Defense the Hon. Paul Hellyer and
others... and the recent increase in sightings around
the world which are also getting main stream media
attention... we could actually be witnessing the
beginning of the "summit climb" of disclosure in
action, but more like watching the hour-hand rather
than the second-hand of a clock. There is a growing
impatience as well as a literal exhaustion also taking
place as some of the long timers and those who
have dedicated their lives to eking out the truth are
hitting a kind of wall and for "some", the problem
may be akin to watching paint dry! However, at least
with paint drying, we have past experience to let us
know "it will dry". I bet the first person to ever use
paint had many moments of suspense and perhaps
frustration until the paint started showing signs of
drying. And once the drying starts... the speed of
curing picks up exponentially. It just may turn out
that rather than Mr. Disclosure going to
Washington... we could see Washington (et al)

coming to the disclosure community for help and council when they realize they are both not
equipped as well as not ready to Govern a public who among other emotional responses... just
may be getting ready for a lynching once they know the truth. I don't think we will get through this
without the revelation that the powers that be have had the proverbial "shields-up" on this topic
since before The Duke was a cowboy. Metaphorically speaking, we could have quite a crop of
daisies spring up at that time!
AAG: Now for the last couple of years, you've accompanied Disclosure Project founder Dr. Steven
Greer on annual trips to Mt. Shasta, right? I understand that it's a way for the Disclosure
Community to connect, and that it's a region with a fair number of UFO sightings, so you're able to
mingle, compare notes, and maybe even witness the unexplained. Can you tell me about these
trips?
Berndt: Actually, it's our CSETI team which conducts the field and contact work. We are
breaking new ground here with some of the efforts and initiatives we have undertaken guided by
Dr. Greer's invaluable leadership. Many others are naively calling for undeniable contact and
subsequent disclosure "right bloody now"... but I can see a scenario where if undeniable contact
was to happen (and for some experienced people... if you ask them, it already has) and proper
protocols and etiquette had not been established... it could be quite a mess. Of course... until we
are prepared... I do not think a true world wide contact and disclosure will happen... Our society
adheres to a learned principal which basically dictates that once the "ability to perform" has been
established... then responsibility and reward follows. As just one of a multitude of possibilities,
what if we are dealing with an intelligence that allows everyone a (true) even playing field from
the get-go (what a concept). Imagine giving someone you don't know, the responsibility as the
head chef at an eatery you may own. This person has no references, no practical experience but
they say they know they can do it because for years they have been preparing the same types of
foods for their village. In our society I'm sure this person would be treated respectfully while at
the same time being politely shown the door. Now, imagine an advanced society that has the
ability to "sense" the sincerity (or lack there-of) in a person. At least the employer would "know"
this person believes in their ability. Now imagine if even further extrasensory abilities went into
play here! So, in many ways, calling for and even demanding disclosure, (forcing without proper
preparation), just may be similar to ancient tribes people trying to relate to today's humans where
much misunderstanding and even suspicions is likely to manifest. Obviously this could have an
impeding or devastating effect on laying a healthy foundation in this early relationship.
One of the first principals I became acutely aware of on my first expedition to Mt. Shasta comes
from a very functional and healthy attitude of "respect". Much like many aboriginal peoples have
for every aspect of their lives. I found myself actually being conscious of the plant and insect life
below my feet and once I became aware... I couldn't help but side-step "when possible and safe"
which to me is a healthy balance of respect for all of life including myself (E.g.: I wouldn't side step
a bug or plant should the alternative foot hold have me possibly going over a cliff). In many ways,
we are very much in our infancy as we are still learning what seems to work and what doesn't
seem to work... we're adopting new approaches and discarding others... basically, (IMHO) we are
really only now starting to learn how to "shake our rattle". It is imperative that we also discard
our old anthropocentric mindsets. Of course the first step is to drop our individual as well as

Planning Period: Harold Berndt and Steven Greer
discussing Disclosure strategy for the upcoming year.
collective egos to create a clean canvas so we can actually become aware of this and other
human traits and paradigms which hold us back. I did not really know what to expect on my first
trip to Mt. Shasta but what I found went way beyond anything I could have expected. I met and
now know CSETI members form almost every
walk of life. On my first trip I met construction
workers, pilots, short order cooks,
astronomers, retail clerks, a number of MD's,
aerospace engineers, Nasa employees all
committed to furthering their understanding
and how to initiate and conduct diplomatic
contact with our visitors. When we break down
all the components that make up our species, I
believe at the core of our existence (and
probably the most important building block we
start with, is our consciousness) and that we
are really all the same and equal in this regard.
It could quite likely be that all the labels,
achievements & failures etc (titles, PhD's,
wealth, poverty, oppression etc...) that we
acknowledge as humans and could be
completely unique to our species, really means
absolutely squat from a cosmological
viewpoint. If that's the case... just what
common denominator will we then have to
interact with another species who may have a
completely "different" set of values, standards
and physics? With this understanding, we
attempt to initiate contact using a combination
of meditation and peaceful thought processes
in combination with nuts and bolts equipment
like magnetometers, lasers & other recording
devices. The later helps corroborate what we
may be experiencing in the etheric or less than
physical plane as well as the possible
(physical) materialization or appearance of
craft or otherwise. This might sound like a
bunch of new-age rhetoric and/or fluff and
there was a time I would have squirmed in my
seat with what now is so much a part of my
life... but that's maturing and growth... isn't it!
AAG: Have you seen anything at Mt. Shasta? The number of sightings reported annually in the US
is pretty large, but still tiny compared to the population, so if not it makes sense. However, with
that many people hoping to spot a UFO in one place, I'd hope that you'd have a sighting story. On
that note - any other fun or exciting events happen on these trips?

Berndt: Earlier this year, a group of senior CSETI members, disclosure witnesses and others got
together to relate and share past experiences... some stories new and some old. I was scheduled
to attend this week long event however, work and other immediate issues prevented me form
attending. None the less, the substance of that week is being transcribed and a book will be
written focusing on "The CSETI Experience". I would encourage anyone truly interested in our work
to watch for this book. Of course there is nothing... and I mean NOTHING that compares to actual
first hand experience. What awoke me was the sighting I described earlier but I have had
"experiences" all my life including some repetitive and very lucid "dreams" as a child. Perhaps
during a future article we can discuss some of these experiences but for now I will focus on the
question at hand. Actually, most new people who come out to our field work anticipate seeing
something physical. Unfortunately, we do have many close aerial (and ground based) sightings
during our work, but for the most part, these are our very own Military, Air Force and "others"? Dr.
Greer is definitely on the radar scope of these and other government departments and it's pretty
well known that occasionally, a proverbial shot across the bow is experienced by the group. And
it's this very presence and threat that prevents a safe environment for open sightings. We've shot
at them before and for some perplexing reason we will do it again so the sightings that have taken
place over the years, I would imagine, are very carefully considered before being carried out. That
being said, my first year at Mt. Shasta provided us with an incredible and very majestic "fly over"
as I will explain. It was cold... very cold and it was also after midnight and we were just wrapping
things up for the evening. We were standing in a circle and I was facing East with my back directly
to the West. Like I said, it was cold (40-45F degrees). Even at the beginning of September in
Northern California, when you are 6-7,000 feet up on the side of a mountain... well... brrrrr! I had
my face buried in my chest under my turtle neck. I was blowing warm air into my upper torso area
when I heard Dr. Greer say something like "Oh my God" and then gasps by others. I quickly (I mean
quickly) lifted my head just in time to see the remaining trajectory of two parallel and bright
golden "arrow-head" shaped points of light about half a pinky finger nail in size at arms length.
Behind these "craft" were two very distinct and "structured" plasma-like trails of light. I'm not sure
how high these craft were but they appeared to be at a much, much higher altitude than say a
cruising airliner. If you've ever seen a super-sonic jet traverse the sky... it's quite impressive but
very easily followed and what I saw that evening has left an indelible impression which doesn't
even come nano-close to the later. Whatever these two objects were, they traversed the entire
sky, horizon to horizon within 10-15+/- seconds... it was so quick that I had to virtually perform
contortions to see the balance of the event and I almost fell backwards as I was leaning back and
twisting at the same time. When it was over... our group just stood there dumbfounded and
exhilarated at the same time. Unfortunately for them, there were a handful of people out of
approximately 40 of us that were doing the same thing I was (blowing warm air etc...) and because
it was so quick... they missed it. But those who witnessed this will most likely never forget it. After
this sighting, I kept checking local papers and media (when I had time) as I thought someone else
outside of our group surely must have seen this... someone in town or the area but I didn't see any
reference to it and it was, in fact, late (after midnight). But I kept checking UFO reports from
various sources and one day... BINGO!.. I found a report in which the person, just a couple of
months before our sighting, and in another area of California, described a sighting which was
almost identical to what we witnessed. I immediately sent the description and graphic image down
to the CSETI coordinator, Debbie Foch, who reported back to me that yes... the description and
graphic sure does look like what we witnessed. (Tim... I have attached this report and graphic if
you want to include it.)

Long Night: A tired Harold adjusting a sandal after
a very long night of UFO-hunting at Mt. Shasta.
AAG: I understand your son Bryan went along on this last outing - did he get a lot out of it, or
does a lot of meaning in the experience come from your connections & activism in the UFO
community?
Berndt: My older son Bryan is probably a good example of that sect of people who are very rigid
and require empirical evidence which is obviously based within our (human's) model of known
physics and science. The problem with this is... the individual holding this standard is inadvertently
looking for (or perhaps only prepared to "see") nothing more than the equivalent of... well... of
"US"! In other words... this person is expecting to find evidence of advanced beings who still listen
to simple radio signals, pop a Bud and watch the latest game of the tube! For those that have not
been fortunate enough to have had a sighting or other profound experience, they are left with the
current accumulation of evidence we do have (which is substantial). However, most people have
lives to lead and are not prepared or motivated
sufficiently to dive deep enough into our pool
of evidence and/or remain in the water long
enough to start to understand and/or piece
together the bigger picture. And then there is
the dis and mis-information infused
everywhere within the phenomenon which
takes people off the true track and in some
cases... simply leads them all the way down
the wrong road. I hope you don't get the wrong
idea... I don't claim to know exactly what we
are dealing with here or whether or not I even
possess the capacity to come close to
understanding. But I have conducted enough
research and field work, combined with some
of my own sightings and experiences to have a
pretty good idea what we are NOT dealing
with. And it sure isn't a situation where we
need the "Fresh Prince" and the President to
save us from the Alien menace. Only in
Hollywood! I'm hoping to take my younger son,
Michael with me on a future expedition. Mike,
as far as I know, doesn't adhere to the same
rigid "text-book" protocol that Bryan does, and
I know he would like to come and he just may
experience the trip from a different view point.
AAG: Is the annual Mt. Shasta Trip an event that most people would benefit from? I should ask
how they can learn more or get involved if it's something their interested in.
Berndt: I think I've covered some of this above but for those that would like to get involved or
explore the topic closer... it's really not that difficult. I think the most difficult part is to actually

Paranormal Legend: Inventor John Hutchison at
his lab during AAG-filming with Berndt in mid-2005.
make a decision and commit to seeing it through. After all, we are not talking about a leisurely trip
to Vegas or Hawaii here... There is not much free time, that is... if you want to get enough rest, as
we are busy with daily workshops and discussions, then dinner and then back up the mountain
until 1-2AM. That being said, those that are interested can simply visit www.cseti.org and all the
information, requirements and applications are available there. I can say this without hesitation...
those that come and remain open minded, put in an honest effort (and it does take effort) and see
the week through... without exception usually say at the end that it not only had one of the biggest
impacts on them but that they felt it would change their lives forever. At the absolute very least...
(and the coldness of late evening aside)... sitting under the stars in an area with absolutely no light
noise, with wonderful people and incredible conversation, in itself is well worth the trip. And, in
addition to Dr. Greer's vast night sky knowledge, we usually have other experts and astronomers
in the group who are more than open to gracing us with their expertise and experience. Being a
Realtor for over 20 years now, I have spent thousands of dollars to attend motivational and life
skills workshops related to my business and I have not gotten a fraction of the value I feel I have
gotten from the CSETI work and training.
AAG: I'd like to change gears a bit, as another
area that you've really done some great work
in is supporting & documenting the recent
research of weird-science legend John
Hutchison. What can you tell me about him as
a person, and what are your thoughts on his
research?
Berndt: I contacted John very early in my
research as he's just a stones throw from me
over the bridge in New Westminster BC. John
was very open and gracious and was more
than willing to allow me into his world. And it's
quite a world I don't mind saying. Without any
real formal education, John is more of an
intuitive tinkerer than a text book physicist but
he also comes across as a very intelligent,
gracious and quiet man. I guess most people
have a hard time getting past his eccentricities
and other aspects which sets him apart making
it hard for some to open up enough to see
beyond the overtly obvious (and not so
obvious) and get to the "heart" of the man...
which is a big & compassionate one at that!
AAG: Hutchison's had many people with cameras come to visit, but you're one of the very few
who's actually seen the true, "classic" Hutchison-Effect up-close and in-person. What can you tell
me about the event that you filmed last year with a rack of equipment slamming itself into a wall?

The Effect: One of Hutchison’s many deformed
samples of metals warped by the Hutchison Effect.
Berndt: It literally almost blew me away! Quite frankly, I didn't know what to expect when John
called me asking if I would like to come over and video-tape the Hutchison Effect in action. John
previously had "set-up" for National Geographic's TV show as they were there taping for an up-
coming special. I was also a little concerned that John was actively experimenting again as the
City of New Westminster, after numerous complaints from neighbors that ceramic plates were
flying off their counters, noises and creaking sounds could be heard and other anomalous events
happening. What the reader may not know... is that because of circumstances and various "lab-
raiding" by ???... John now had his lab and every bit of his equipment, metal samples and living
quarters all housed within a standard 700 square foot (+/-) one bedroom apartment. And the
experimenting wasn't John's only problem with the city. After all, he had thousands of pounds of
science and physics gear, a naval and gun collection, radar scopes, Tesla coils & frequency
generators and to get a good idea of what the inside looks like... one just has to stroll by his
balcony which has become a kind of weird tourist attraction in the City. When the City realized
who this mad scientist really was... instead of continuing the plan to rid the town of John...
engineers were sent out to determine if the apartment was safe and if not, what type of
reinforcement and support structure would be needed. The solution served to stave off eviction
but it also added to the crapped quarters he lived within as there are support cables and chains
everywhere. These support cables have been suspected by a few with an untrained eye to be a
part of a dastardly scheme to hoax and fake some of the experiments he conducts including the
Hutchison Effect itself. Witnessing it for yourself aside, one needs only look at the metal samples
and the reams and reams of government documents and correspondence to put that suspicion to
rest definitively.
AAG: You're also one of the few people who's
seen John's metal-samples up close, and I'm
wondering if you could describe them a bit for
me? Do they appear to be authentic, and what
are your thoughts after seeing pieces of metal
warped so dramatically?
Berndt: Without question, even with my
limited experience, these metal samples have
obviously undergone some type of
unconventional transformation. They have also
been analyzed and it's been determined what
didn't happen to them. The only conventional
explanation for the warping, twisting and the
type of "stalactite-stalagmite" separation
would be a process involving massive amounts
of heat. Of course these samples were not
subjected to heat and the transformation took
place with the samples and the environment
being at or about room/lab temperature.
Again... if it were a hoax, I can't imagine all the
various government agencies and people

Vacuum Tube: A closeup of the tube that started
emitting a breakdown noise just before the “event”.
taking such an interest as well as falling for the equivalent of the proverbial "snake-oil salesman".
AAG: Now we spoke only days after you filmed this, and you'd mentioned that you'd been
focused on a vacuum-tube that changed pitch - giving off a chaotic, choppy buzz almost like it was
breaking down right before this event happened, right? Also, you said that there was static in the
room, and that when you mentioned this to John he indicated that this often happens before the
onset of the effect, right?
Berndt: You have to understand... this was
the first time I had ever been in a situation like
this. I was also very conscious of the fact that
not too many people have been fortunate
enough to be right there, with camera running
should just the right frequency and high
voltage combination among many other
variables all come together to produce an
"event". We were well into the experiment and
taping and John was busy taking
measurements and adjusting various
components in the other room. I believe it was
just a couple of minutes prior to the event
where you can hear me make a comment that I
was feeling static in the air and around me. In
reality, it was quite un-nerving but I kept my
composure even though all the hair on my
body was at attention. The target area (where
the bulk of the HE was being directed) was
fairly undefined so I was panning and zooming and just as I zoomed in on a spark-gap tube, there
was a momentary increase in static while at the same time I heard some type of whooshing sound.
As I do when I'm video taping the sky out in the field, I had one eye trained thru the view finder and
the other observing the surrounding area when I witnessed an apparatus (directly above the tube I
was focusing on) which supported some very heavy equipment stacked on perhaps a 4' X 8' re-
enforced platform suspended from the ceiling. This weighed well over 1,000 pounds (maybe 1,500)
and what I saw was quite incredible. The entire apparatus "jumped" briefly and then began to
sway from side to side slightly. By the time John made his way from the far side of the apt/lab, the
swaying had slowed to maybe 1/2 to 1 inch in each direction which John also saw. As exciting as
this was... there was legitimate concern for the second floor apartment's structure so John
immediately shut it down... but we had it... we had it on tape even if I almost missed it with my
impatient panning and zooming.
AAG: Being a rational man, and familiar with the paranormal (which also describes John's
apartment on a good day), are you now convinced that the Hutchison Effect is for real? I still hear
people complain about stage props and trickery despite all the evidence over the last 20 years, but
as somebody who's been there I'm wondering what you believe?

The Balcony: Harold shown looking in disbelief at
Hutchison’s famously crowded balcony/storage area.
Berndt: Personally, my observation is that for
most advances and innovations (if you ask the
inventor for an honest answer) they will tell
you that a "thought, dream or vision" preceded
the finding, experiment or invention. Sure...
there have been many "bench-built" devices
through trial, error and endless, mile long
equations. But there have been an equal or
better number of these intuitive successes. I
came into John's life at a time when most of
John's work was now a memory and most
likely documented in a filing cabinet at the
Pentagon with his name on it. I found that most
of the critics just simply do not know from
where they speak. Many of these accusations
of props, cables and strings come from people
who, first of all... are more than skeptics and
are actually looking to debunk John's work.
Whether they are debunkers or otherwise,
many have confused some of the support
structure in John's apartment for staged props
etc.. I know of a piece of video where people
cried foul after seeing a "string" attached to a
toy UFO John was levitating. What they don't
know is that the toy ran free from this "string"
as it was in actual fact, a high voltage wire
delivering a charge to the immediate area of
the toy. Much like the high voltage wire you
and I have used in "Lifter" or electrogravitic
craft experiments applying the Biefeld-Brown
effect. To the layperson, these wires could also
be construed as "props". But you and I both
know (as well as hundreds of replicators all
over the world) that this just isn't so.
AAG: I understand John has a local protege as well - a younger fellow named Adrien Stone - and
he's also reporting some Hutchison-like Effects. I think we've both met Adrien, but you know him
much better than I, and I'm wondering what you can tell me about him and how his research is
progressing?
Berndt: Adrien was a neighbor of John's just one floor down in the same apartment building and
this is where I met him. From what I can see, Adrien is a very intelligent and open minded person

Halina Kacicki: John Hutchison’s new bride, which
precipitated a move for John to Arizona in mid-07.
who has tried to be a source of support for John. When I met Adrien he was working on a
replication on the Arc of the Covenant experiment which John conducted for Blue Book Films on
location in Richmond BC at a make shift lab. John's hypothesis on the Arc in a nut shell is that it
was basically a giant capacitor and when carried by soldiers thru the dry desert sands, a massive
charge built up and stored itself within the gold laden walls of the Arc and could then be released
similar to lightning bolts which, as written, wiped out vast armies of soldiers. Today Adrien now
lives in Surrey and to be honest, I'm not sure what the status is in their relationship or how his
research is progressing. I do believe he is still busy replicating some of John's work as well as his
own.
AAG: John's life has been a bit chaotic lately: he's been talking about moving, chatting with
Hollywood producers, and just got married down in Arizona, if I remember correctly. Do you think
this mean's he'll slow down a bit on the work for a while, or quit doing his experiments altogether?
Berndt: John is feeling pretty burned out.
This is no secret as he openly talks about this.
If I were in John’s position, I might not have
had the staying power he has mustered to this
day. It's also no secret that there are a few
people along the way who managed to parlay
some of the findings John was directly
responsible for into vast empires of money and
wealth. At this point in his life, it's all been
done! John's work has been taken into the
basements of black-op labs and exploited (I'm
sure) into everything from weapon applications
to propulsion and energy alternatives. All the
while we still drive around in oil burning
dinosaurs and paying thru the nose to do it! I
think John is looking at the rest of his life and
is longing for a level of normalcy and stability. Hollywood has always been at his door and I think if
the right offer came along... he would take it. He would probably enjoy being part of a show similar
to a Myth-Buster's format and I think it would be very beneficial to have someone like John
helping open the minds of children and adults alike. I don't think we've seen the last of John as I
believe there will always be someone wanting him to spark things up.
AAG: I'd like to wrap things up with a question about you're future: I understand that you put
some of your paranormal research on hold recently to rebuild your real-estate practice, but that
you've started doing media work again like the Rafe Mare show, and I'm wondering what you're
future plans are in this area? What can we expect to see from you in the future?

Harold Berndt: A closeup photo of Harold taken
during filming at Hutchison’s in mid-2005.
Berndt: Thanks Tim and I want to thank you
for inviting me to discuss some of these vital
issues with you. As you know, unless you are
willing to "go commercial" in the precarious
field of the Paranormal... there's really isn't a
way to make a living unless you have a book to
peddle. So... real estate or pouring latte's at
Starbucks... the bills have to be paid. I would,
however, like to contribute a little more than I
have been to date. I also didn't want to become
openly public until I felt I actually had created
a solid foundation of knowledge and
experience to offer... "something" substantial
to add or a new fresh view rather than re-
hashing the same old thing but just moving the
potatoes to the other side of the plate (if you
know what I mean). In that regard, I would like
to start to become a little more visual and this
article is one of the recent projects I've agreed
to. A few weeks ago, as you know, I also
appeared on a Canadian TV show called Talk
Ottawa with fellow CSETI member Richard
Lalancette, Brian Vike of HBCCUFO (a UFO
reporting web site), and Exopolitical activist
Victor Viaganni. I'm looking forward to whatever I can contribute in the public forum including
future television and radio appearances. I've also started a blog spot I've entitled: "The Meta-
Harold - the blog edition" which I'm still working on and adding to and if I really get energetic... I'll
post a full blown web site with the same name. Other than that, I will continue my field and
research work with CSETI, my Disclosure work as well as any appropriate speaking engagements
I'm asked to participate in.
Harold Berndt is the Canadian representative for the Disclosure Project and well-known Real Estate
Agent in the Vancouver, BC area. Photos in this article were provided by Harold Berndt. For
additional information on his latest work, contact him directly at: haroldberndt@gmail.com

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