“Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and the test of our civilisation” - Mahatma Gandhi Omesh Jethwani, Government Projects & Programs Manager interviewed Ian Bridger, Director of Across Culture on the importance of adopting and embracing cultural diversity and equality.

1. CULTURAL DIVERSITY AND EQUALITY
“Our ability to reach unity in diversity will be the beauty and the test of our civilisation” -
Mahatma Gandhi
Omesh Jethwani, Government Projects
& Programs Manager interviewed Ian
Bridger , Director of Across Culture
on the importance of adopting and
embracing cultural diversity and equality.
Tell us about the inception of Across Culture?
Across Culture (AC) evolved from my previous
business, Bridgeway Barnes and Associates
(BBA). BBA was a training/consulting business.
Prior to BBA I had been working in the
employment sector for a number of years.
During this time I observed that the issue
regarding Indigenous employment was
less around Indigenous people not wanting
to work or organisations not wanting to
employ Indigenous Australians, but more
about organisations not being able to retain
Indigenous people.
So although BBA was doing well, I didn’t feel
that I was working where my passion lies;
working with Diverse Cultures and in this
case Indigenous culture. So together with my
current Indigenous business partner, Mark
Spinks, we looked at what was working in
regards to retention.
What we discovered was that mentoring was a
key success factor in the retention of Aboriginal
workers but we also saw that there was no
real quality standards around mentoring and
in fact people were mentoring without a real
understanding of what mentoring entailed.
To address this issue Across Culture, which at
that stage was known as Bridgeway Barnes
and Associates, developed its first Certificate
IV in Mentoring Diverse Groups. Mark became
a business partner and we rebranded to
Across Culture.
So our entry into the market really was through
our Certificate IV in Mentoring Diverse Groups,
this qualification has now been superseded by
our new qualification 10571NAT Certificate IV
in Workplace Mentoring.
As a non-Aboriginal Australian, how did
the Aboriginal community react to you
delivering their 100+ years culture?
It really depends on what our customer wants.
If they are requesting traditional Cultural
Awareness training where the history and
traditions of Indigenous Australians is at the
heart of the learning outcome then we have a
number of Aboriginal trainers who deliver the
training. I don’t believe it is appropriate for me
or that I have the knowledge or experience to
deliver this type of training.
If the customer requests cultural knowledge
that has the potential to be implemented
in the workplace or they want to move
beyond cultural awareness towards cultural
competence then I get involved. I often deliver
this type of training with an Indigenous trainer.
In addition to my work with AC I teach at
undergraduate and post graduate level;
Approaches to Cultural Diversity, Managing in
Ambiguity and Change, Society and Culture in
an Organisational Context as well as units such
as Organisational Behaviour.
Given my background I am able to draw
on tools and frameworks, which allow
organisations to understand culture from a
worldview and an organisational perspective.
What is often overlooked, is that we don’t have
only 2 cultures interacting in the workplace
at any one time, overarching everything is
organisational culture. We need to bring
organisational culture into the discussion. Then
if we want to take it a step further management
styles are also part of the jigsaw puzzle.
So as you can see it’s not a matter of simply
understanding Indigenous traditions, values
and history and empathising with the past
and ongoing trauma, there’s a lot more to
it, fortunately the people I have worked with
have provided me with some great feedback,
for example in my last work shop 3 of the
comments from people who had already
participated in traditional cultural awareness
training were;
• Totally changed my approach to working
with Indigenous people
• It was a real eye opener and I will
recommend it highly to others
• I will be reviewing existing policies
So in answer to your question I have been very
well received because I also help Indigenous
Australians to understand white Anglo Saxon
Australian culture and workplace culture. Many
of my Indigenous participants have stated that
it’s a light bulb moment for them.
We need to be looking at culture from a
broader perspective and endeavouring to
understand all cultures in a manner that allows
us to compare and measure culture against
culture. Only then can we begin to look for
solutions and build bridges.
What is cultural diversity and why is it so
important in this day and age?
It has been said that Culture is the 2nd most
difficult word in the English Language to define.
In 1953 there were 163 different definitions
of culture however for myself I like the simple
definition of Cultural Diversity from the Oxford
Dictionary; ‘The existence of a variety of cultural
or ethnic groups within a society’ or if we are
talking about organisations ‘within organisations’.
In terms of the importance of cultural diversity
within the workforce, we currently have a skills
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2. and labour shortage globally. The number of
international migrants continues to grow. For
example, in 1996, Stephen Cranby (1996)
estimated that international migration resulted
in 125 million people living in countries not of
their birth. In 2005, the International Integration
and Refugee Association estimated 190 million
international migrants, about three per cent of
global population.
Business is becoming more competitive as
overseas businesses access local markets.
The ability of organisations to understand other
cultures and thereby access these markets, attract
labour and skills is of paramount importance.
Those organisations that have a culturally diverse
workforce have a competitive advantage. With
input from their diverse employee base they can
understand different markets and products, what
different cultures value and how to attract them
to their labour force.
Why do you think racism persist in Australia
despite the country’s commitment to
cultural diversity and equality?
Unfortunately racism is alive and well, my
thoughts on this are that as a nation we are not
culturally educated. By that I mean we just don’t
understand culture, we don’t even understand
our own culture let alone anyone else’s.
If we’re serious about cultural diversity and
equality we need to invest in it where it counts.
For example, I know there seems to be a lot of
money being invested in Indigenous programs
but it’s still not reaching the ground. Despite all
the talk about Indigenous employment programs
the employment figures from the Closing the Gap
report are dismal and speak volumes.
Can discrimination and intolerance be stopped
by legislation, or does each person have to
overcome their individual prejudice, or both?
We need to address these issues through
legislation, education and presenting to the
Australian people a sound business case of
why we need to change. There is no silver
bullet; we need to fight discrimination through
every avenue.
In your personal opinion, do you think the
building and construction industry will
eventually adopt a system of
social equilibrium?
Those who do will gain a competitive
advantage, those who don’t may not survive.
Do you think the scope and delivery of the
Aboriginal cultural workshops should be
accommodated to the needs of the industries?
Yes I do. Businesses must survive and make
money as a loss of jobs means a lose/lose
situation for everyone. This will look different
depending on the individual situation. I believe
we need to move beyond cultural awareness
towards cultural competence. In my view they
are very different.
Majority of employees being registered to
attend Aboriginal cultural workshops are
born and raised in Australia. They have
studied Aboriginal history and culture.
Why should they have to be encouraged to
attend and how can they benefit from the
various cultural workshops?
From a purely business perspective many
organisations must be seen to be running
cultural awareness programs to be able to win
tenders. So they should attend if they want
their organisation to win more work.
Naturally I would like a different approach.
I would like businesses and employees to
understand the business and personal benefits
of becoming culturally competent and attend
for those reasons.
The Sydney Morning Herald was quoted as saying
‘cultural competence is not just a nice to have skill
anymore’. Imagine turning up to an interview and
explaining that you were culturally competent. You
would stand out. There needs to be a lot more
work done to promote the importance of cultural
competence in the work place.
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3. I would like to see organisations develop a
cultural strategy that assists them to become
culturally competent. The strategy would
start with a cultural audit which would then
determine who is actually culturally aware.
Once this has been completed we move on to
build cultural competence.
Organisations need to move beyond cultural
awareness, we need to learn to work more
productively with Indigenous employees,
communicate more constructively, we need to
learn how to manage and lead Indigenous staff
more effectively.
In one of my workshops we discuss how
Australian Aboriginal people come from a
collective culture, that is they value family and
the extended family foremost while Anglo
Australians come from what is called an
individualistic culture which values ‘me’ and
my immediate family first. I’m talking generally
here, but what we have to then think about
is how does this cultural dimension influence
how we work together, how we manage and
supervise and what motivates Indigenous staff.
In a few words, how do you think
the various generations view cultural
diversity and equality:-
(Note: The generation age breakdown has been
taken from McCrindle “Generations Defined: 50
Years of Change over 5 Generations”)
My experience is it differs from regional to
metro centres and how well travelled a person
is but in general terms:-
a. Builders (1925 - 1945; Aged 70s - 80s)
Quite narrow, don’t like to change, they
believe that cultural groups must do it our
way as our way is the only way while at the
same time they are more philosophical about
the issue. Possibly due to the life cycle.
b. Baby Boomers (1946 - 1964; A
ged 50s - 60s)
Narrow as well, not as philosophical,
blame the government for losing jobs
because of multiculturalism
c. Generation X (1965 - 1979;
Aged 30s - 40s)
Broader acceptance, normally more
travelled, educated and experienced
however there is still an underlying
sentiment of ‘do it our way’.
d. Generation Y aka Millennials (1980 - 1994;
Aged 20s - early 30s)
Still broader acceptance again, more
travelled and educated. They have an
increased desire to understand differences
and question the status quo of ‘white
Australia’. It’s not cool not to accept others
culture.
e. Generation Z (1995 – 2010;
Aged kids – teens)
Acceptance and in fact it is unusual for
them not to have friends who are from a
diverse cultural group. They have a hunger
to learn about other cultures. They can see
where previous generations have made
huge mistakes so we have a lot to learn
from other cultures.
f. Generation Alpha (2011 onwards)
No judgement
To date, how has the delivery of Aboriginal
cultural awareness workshops help
organisations in cultural diversity and equality?
You don’t always have the opportunity to get
feedback once you have delivered training and
a few months have passed however if I use
Qantas as an example our intervention has
resulted in an 80% increased retention rate of
Indigenous trainees.
Some comments from other organisations
have been;
• Very practical and applicable in the real world.
• I have become more conscious of my
interactions with my Indigenous employees
and listening skills in particular.
• I am more aware of the role of my team in
advocating within the wider organisation.
• I will be implementing culturally safe change
management process in next 12 months
• I will be driving change within my
workplace and personal/professional
practice to a place of inclusivity and
cultural competence
How do you deal with employees that have
the “I know it all” attitude to disgruntled
employees who were pressured by their
employers to attend the Aboriginal cultural
awareness workshop?
The honest truth is you are not going to be
able to please everyone, some people have
already made up their minds and you can’t
reason with the unreasonable.
However when we engage our contract
trainers, we look for people who are
experienced and have a natural understanding
of Emotional Intelligence. That is; they are
able to manage their own emotions and the
emotions of others.
They don’t always get it right and neither do I,
but if I reflect back on a national project with a
Government Department that contained some
disgruntled participants it was the ability of the
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4. trainer to empathise with the participant, to
stop and listen to their view and in some cases
create healthy discussion within the group. We
have often found their peers will answer many
of their questions.
We don’t have any prescribed process;
we have more of an approach and trust in
the ability and experience of our trainers to
manage difficult customers.
Naturally we also have a feedback form and
take comments very seriously; this has enabled
us to improve on our approach.
Although Across Culture has 11 different
courses, it shares the same main theme
and topic. Can you give us some examples
on the differences?
All of our courses have come about through
feedback from individuals and organisations.
We don’t have listed all of our products as many
have been designed specifically for organisations.
The main theme is to move organisations
beyond cultural awareness towards cultural
competence. We build the cultural capability
of organisations so that they can work more
effectively with other cultures.
To be able to build cultural capability/
competence we need to focus on different
areas of the business and employee roles.
So for example we work with managers and
supervisors to increase their knowledge and
skills or we may work with staff to build more
effective cross cultural teams.
In some instances we develop mentor
strategies and/or a team of mentors to
address particular areas of the business such
as increasing the retention rate of Indigenous
employees or to transfer knowledge, build
leadership and management skills within a
cultural context.
In some instance governance training may be
required however we approach governance
with a cultural ‘flavour’. Our ‘Work and Culture’
workshops were developed for people who
gained ‘fly in fly out’ positions in the mines.
We would work with them to help them to
understand some of the issues, how their
lives may change in terms of changing social
networks, financial management and what it
may mean for their families. This is all done
within a cultural context. These workshops
have now be customised to suit those
commencing employment for the first time or
are long term unemployed.
What are some the common questions
asked by the participants in the workshops?
• How do we apply cultural awareness in
the workplace?
• As a supervisor what can or what
shouldn’t I do?
• How do I engage with an
Indigenous employee?
• How can I make an Aboriginal employee
feel less isolated?
• What can I do to motivate an
Aboriginal employee?
• Why do Aboriginal people go to so
many funerals?
• What can I do about an Aboriginal
employee being late for work?
• How do I explain to my other workers why
I have to give Aboriginal people time off to
attend funerals?
Share with us one of Across’ Culture’s
greatest outcome and achievements.
Winning the Supply Nation ‘Up and Coming
Supplier of the Year’ award in 2015. The
award was given for the culmination of a
number of projects.
What makes Across Culture so unique and
different in the way it delivers its cultural
courses in comparison to the other 100
cultural organisations?
We apply our 3 key pillars of success to
every project.
• Cultural Knowledge -moving beyond Cultural
Awareness towards Cultural Competency
• Learning and Development - the application
of knowledge in a meaningful way
• Organisation Learning and Change -
embedding the knowledge
within organisations
How are the classes delivered, how often, in
class, off site, where in NSW etc.?
The workshops are delivered face to face; the
work has been increasing to about a project
a month.
We like to talk with our customers to see
where they would like it delivered. In remote NT
we delivered a mentoring course outside on a
basketball court. We have delivered nationally.
A breakdown as per industry
There seems to be more acceptance in the
customer service and the humanities sectors.
We have done some work in the engineering
market however there doesn’t seem to be a
great deal of uptake in the building industry.
The common response I get is, ‘no money in
the budget’.
Omesh Jethwani
Government Projects & Programs Manager
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