Cyber Laws : National and International Perspective.
How to Structure Your Questions So A Medical Expert Doesn't Derail Your Case
1. HOW TO STRUCTURE YOUR
QUESTIONS SO THE MEDICAL
EXPERT DOESN’T DERAIL YOUR
CASE
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD
1
2. 1. What are the goals of the cross
examination of the ME?
2. How do you prepare?
3. How do you execute an effective
cross examination?
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 2
3. Generally
1. Reinforce favorable information
2. Discredit or impeach unfavorable information
a. Information can be facts or opinions
b. Opinions should be based on facts
c. Experts can disagree on opinions, not facts
d. SS case-don’t know ME opinion until the
hearing
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 3
4. 1. Construct questions so the ME appears not
credible
2. Construct questions so the ME admits the
diagnoses is consistent with the objective test
and the symptoms(subjective and objective)
3. Construct questions so the ME admits the
claimant is credible (SSR 96-7p)
4. Construct questions so the ME give controlling
or greatest weight to the treating physician
(SSR 96-2p)
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 4
5. 5. Construct questions so the ME admits the
claimant cannot work full time (SSR 96-8p)
6. Construct questions so the ME admits that the
combination of diagnoses explains why the
symptoms are greater than suggested by the
objective medical evidence
7. Construct questions so the ME admits that the
psychiatric condition can explain why the
symptoms are worse than the medical
objective evidence suggests
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 5
6. 1. Construct the questions so the ME appears not
credible
a. Show the ME is biased
b. Show the ME lacks knowledge of the facts
c. Show the ME lacks knowledge of the subject matter
d. Show the ME’s opinion is different than other
medical personnel with better, more reliable
information
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 6
7. 2. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
diagnosis is consistent with the symptoms and
the objective tests
a. First facts
Activities of daily living
3rd party function report
Disability report
The medical records
Testimony
b. Second opinions
Construct the questions so the ME agrees or disagrees
with favorable opinions of other medical personnel
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 7
8. 3. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
claimant is credible (SSR 96-7p)
a. Construct the questions so the ME admits other
doctors found the claimant credible
Referring to other medical personnel
Workers’ Compensation doctor
Other Social Security doctors
Free clinic or hospital – Cook County Hospital
Physical therapists
Treating doctor
b. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
diagnosis is a competent cause of pain
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 8
9. c. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
symptoms are consistent with the objective
tests
d. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
symptoms existed before the objective tests
e. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
symptoms confirm the diagnosis
f. Construct the questions so the ME admits that
the diagnosis could cause level of limitations,
persistence and pain
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 9
10. g. Make the ME admit that this medications are
prescribed for this diagnosed condition.
h. Make the ME admit they don’t prescribe the
medication unless the condition is severe, or
else it would be over the counter.
i. Make them admit the side effects are caused
by this medication.
j. This all leads one to believe the claimant is
credible .
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 10
11. 4. Construct the questions so the ME admits
controlling/greatest weight should be given to
the treating physician (SSR 96-2p and CFR
404.1527)
a. Construct the questions so the ME admits
the treating doctor’s opinions
b. Construct the questions so the ME admits
the opinion could be true
c. Construct the questions so the ME admits
there is nothing (substantially) inconsistent
in the records
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 11
12. SS DR and ME Treating Doctor
1. Examining
Relationship #
2. Treating relationship
i)length of treatment
ii)number of exams
iii)nature extent of
tests ordered
Knowledge of
impairment
Poms di 25610.89
Consistency with record
specializations
Other factors/ who paid
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 12
13. 5. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
Claimant cannot work 8-hour days, 5 days a
week (SSR 96-8p)
a. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
condition
b. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
condition would cause the claimant to be
affected on the job (missing work, late, off
task, breaks, leaving early)
c. Construct the questions so the ME admits
claimant not able to work 8 X 5
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 13
14. 6. Construct the questions so the ME admits that a
combination of diagnoses could explain why
the symptoms are greater than the objective
evidence would suggest
7. Construct the questions so the
ME/psychiatrist/psychologist admits that the
psychiatric condition can explain or cause
symptoms to be worse than the medical
evidence suggests
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 14
15. 1. General comments
2. Compare rules of Evidence to
SS hearing
3. Cross examination techniques
4. Plan the Cross Examination
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 15
16. 1. Realize this is about control
2. Be low key
3. Be professional
4. Be efficient in your questioning
5. Ask one fact in one question, except
hypothetical questions
6. Know that this is about setting up the
ME
7. Don’t go for the quick kill
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 16
17. 8. Use fact-based questions
9. Pin the ME to the medical records
10. Stay away from the ME’s opinions, because
we don’t know what they are until the
hearing.
11. FRE 705 deals with disclosure of facts and data
underlying opinions. The notes for this rule
mandate the disclosure in advance, pursuant to
FRCP 26(b)(4). (Illinois213f)
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 17
18. 1. No foundations
2. No formal objections
a. Beyond the scope of evidence
b. Assumes facts not in evidence
c. Beyond the expert’s field of expertise
d. There are no form objections
3. No requirement evidence even exists
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 18
19. 1. Repeat the question
2. Ask the ME if he did not understand
3. Ask why the Me why he won’t answer the
question
4. Ask the question in the opposite
5. Narrow the question
6. Ask for judicial intervention
7. If the judge interrupts, it’s answered; be ready
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 19
20. Formulating questions
Yes
No
Question Refusal to answer
Unrelated run on
ALJ intervention
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 20
21. Have impeachment material ready
Q. Do you agree that all pain is subjective?
A. No.
Q. Well, would you agree that symptoms, such as
pain are subjective and difficult to quantify?
A. I can’t say.
Q. So then you disagree with Social Security’s
position in CFR404.1529 where it says that,
correct?
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 21
22. 1. Read the file- note dates and objective test
2. Figure out your goals
3. Plan the cross examination
a. Set up questions first
b. Reinforce favorable information
c. Elicit opinions on SSR’s
d. Impeach unfavorable information
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 22
23. 1. The minimizor – he acknowledges the
diagnosis minimizes the limitations
2. The quick reader - he really does not read the
file
3. The adopter - he adopts the DDS RFC
4. The know-it-all - he knows it all and makes
things up that are not in the records
5. The objective test reader – he only reads the
objective tests
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 23
24. 6. The Repeater - he repeats the same thing at
every hearing
7. The honest doctor – he still gets it wrong
8. The helpful doctor – he tries to help the
claimant
9. The positive doctor – he thinks he can only give
an opinion if he’s sure beyond all doubt
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 24
25. 1. Be professional.
2. Be efficient.
3. Be in control.
4. Don’t get hostile.
5. Don’t argue; stay in control.
6. Remember: You are trying to get them to do
these things.
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 25
26. Goals: Ms. Claimant
1. Construct the questions so the ME admits the
claimant’s condition is permanent
2. Go through the SSR’s that apply
3. Construct the questions so the ME admits there is
nothing to contradict the WC doctor’s opinion
that the claimant couldn’t work in the last 3 years
4. Compare the 2 exams and compel the ME to
admit more limitation means less ability to work
5. Construct the questions so the ME admits that
neuropathy causes limitation that affect ability to
work.
NOSSCR MAY 2010 -NEIL H. GOOD 26
Editor's Notes
If the doctor answer this question no, and does not have impeachment material in hand it is over
The final question he asks it doesn’t matter what the answer is
HOW DOES ONE BECOME AN ME AT A SS HEARING HALEX I-2-1-30
NEED THE CREDENTIAL ON LETTERHEAD
I know people don’t ask the ME’s questions because the ME’s think we are having a conversation.
If the ME says stand 6 hours out of an 8 hour day and lift 20 pounds frequently. Then gives a basis in the records your done. It doesn’t matter what the VE says.
Most ME’s actually form their opinions by an absence of evidence not in the records.
I rarely see a doctor write a patient can only sit for 15 minutes at a time.
Give to all client MSS
That’s what I tell them why it is important.
Ask for there notes the same for the VE’s, there is no privilege.
Do this ten times. The example of the compression fracture
SSA at 20 CRF 404.1527 they opinions are statements that reflect judgments about nature and severity, of impairments including symptoms, diagnosis prognosis and RFC from medical sources.
Have the Me define: Objective and subjective.
a. Subjective symptoms are evident only to the patient, or internal in origin(Tabers)
b. Objective symptoms are perceptible to other persons(Tabers)
Objective test – third parties opinion should not effect the out come.
Certain test have a subjective component
MRI- the film is objective the report says small herniation vs 3mm herniation
Show he always testifies the same way –start early on opening
what you expect him to say
- Talk about financial bias does not apply other than who is paying them
b. Find a mistake in the records and ask about it or an obvious fact
Find out if he ever treated anybody with this condition and when(mmpi & Caucasion)
Point out that he disagrees with the other doctors.
Find out if the ME is testifying from an absence of evidence or information not in the records
Talk about is it possible, is it probable could or might, based on a reasonable degree of medical certainty
These limitations come from the facts then the opinions.
Find out the basis of the disagreement
So your opinion is base on an absence of evidence, Sets up a great appeal to re-contact the doctor
One of the problems inherent in SSR 96-7p is it says something like symptoms such as pain suggest a greater severity of impairment than can be shown by objective medical evidence alone. YOU CAN NEVER SHOW PAIN WITH OBJECTIVE MEDICAL EVIDENCE.
I have three approaches
Ask it directly
Ask if they disagree with DDS
Go through a consistency analysis
C. This can be done using location or type of pain as well as pain distribution.
I do this to show that they were not making it up
This pain is consistent with that diagnosis
An individual with a lumbar herniation could need a cane, no so your telling me that no person who has ever had a lumbar hernition needed cane.
Doctor would you agree that MS cotton is prescribed on for more severe cases of DDD
Would you agree that one could take aspirin if the DDD was mild?
Would you agree that the Darvicet is for more severe medical problems?
This needs to be prescribed by a doctor correct?
Would you agree that fatigue is a known side effect of darvicet?
Would you agree that when looking at the claimants complaints of pain, the limitations claimant has stated exist and the objecive medical evidence this claimant is credible?
This again is a little bit again about set up. Assume you have a MSS that says the claimant will miss 2 days of work a month from her disability. The ME disagreed by questioning by the ALJ.
This is 2 parts first controlling weight then greatest weight. Not really.
Part 1 controlling weight- Opinion well supported by clinical and laboratory diagnostic technique
not inconsistent with substantial evidence
I exclude SS fabricated evidence
Only treating source not SS doctors even if accepted
Dr. ME there nothing in the medical records that prove Dr. Treating statement to be false correct?
So would you agree there is nothing inconsistent with that statement correct?
In fact it is possible for a claimant who has DDD to move slower than a person with out DDD, correct?
So they might have trouble getting dressed in the morning, correct?
They might have trouble sleeping at night, correct?
The medications the claimant is on could cause side effects that make her fatigued correct?
The medication and the DDD are both documented in the file correct?
Assume we have a very favorable MSS from the claimants treating physician that says the claimant . Further assume the ME has said the claimant can do light work.
Do you agree with the treating Doctors MSS? if Yes
Would you agree that the MRI, the Testimony today and medication support that opinion?
Do you agree with the treating Doctors MSS? If No
Is there anything inconsistent with that opinion in the file? No Stop
If yes
1. How many times did Dr. Treater examine the claimant?
2. How many times did the SS doctor or you examine the claimant?
3. How many times has Dr. Treater seen the claimant?
4.
How many times has the SS doctor or you examined the claimant?
Dr. Treater ordered what tests, prescribed what medication and what other treatment?
You would agree that none of the doctors at Social securtiy did any of this correct?
Are you aware of what type of a doctor the SS doctor is?
If I told you the SS doctor was an oncologist would you agree that he is not as quialified as a orthopedic doctor to determine limitatain for DDD?
Would you agree that
Is there any information inconsistent with the treating doctors opinion?
How many times did the SS doctors examine the claimant
How many times did the Dr. Treater examine the patient?
The claimant was diagnosed with IBS. Do you agree with that diagnosis?
You would agree an individual who goes to the Bathroom 6 times maybe more a day?
Would you agree that symptom is consistent with that diagnosis?
These rules get evidence barred-without the rules you can use them against the SSA
Medical records
Testimony
Witnesses
Foundations are used to get evidence admitted Records or Testimony
I had a judge who didn’t know these rules and he kept barring admissible evidence
--imagine not being able to get the record in that says your client is drug addict
Beyond the scope of the evidence when they come up with crazy stuff like he must be an alcoholic because he has fat in his liver
Facts not in evidence- use this against them
You said he needs an EMG to prove neuropathy correct
- Want you to assume a, b, c and there is a positive EMG
Beyond the field of expertise – these guys are allowed to say anything
Hallex I-2-1-30
I got many cases barred based on this and daubert/frye/ kumero
------biomechmechanical engineer
Form- You don’t have to ask things in nice clean tight questions- but try to
No requirement the evidence exists
This is really how you get them
Asssume he was not intoxicated is it possible he would not have had a siezure anyway
Assume he was taking his medication is it possible he would have had siezure anyway
You need to set up the question so there is no room for comments.